Throwing a game to acquire a lower playoff seeding (1 Viewer)

[chinawildman]

I'm surprised people are so enraged by this...

You do what you think gives your team the best chance to win outside of collusion. That is the only real solid rule in FF, try to imply other "gray rules" and you end up with a hot mess.

Just like in real life if the only way to get the ball back and try to tie/win the game is to let the other team score, then you do it... principles be damned.

 

[GrantK]

Long story short, 19 year league with what we thought were a group of solid character guys running teams. The team in question was going to start a very questionable lineup to purposely lose and drop a slot in our playoff seeding, (or so they thought) for an easier 1st round matchup. They were torn apart on our message boards and my phone was ringing off the hook Sunday AM. Needless to say they won (and would have regardless of lineup) so this BS was for naught, that said this team has been a pain in the ### for the last 2 seasons. In a perfect world your team owners are all good guys, start competitive lineups, etc. These guys are far from that and now as Commish I'm receiving e-mails saying that these guys should be gone. What say you?Thanks!

Is there a rule against this? If not either draft one or quit yer whining.

 

[GrantK]

Long story short, 19 year league with what we thought were a group of solid character guys running teams. The team in question was going to start a very questionable lineup to purposely lose and drop a slot in our playoff seeding, (or so they thought) for an easier 1st round matchup. They were torn apart on our message boards and my phone was ringing off the hook Sunday AM. Needless to say they won (and would have regardless of lineup) so this BS was for naught, that said this team has been a pain in the ### for the last 2 seasons. In a perfect world your team owners are all good guys, start competitive lineups, etc. These guys are far from that and now as Commish I'm receiving e-mails saying that these guys should be gone. What say you?Thanks!

Is there a rule against this? If not either draft one or quit yer whining.

Not whining Hipple, just soliciting opinions...

 

[GrantK]

the fact people are telling others how to run their team is shocking.especially when pro teams in every sport continue to bench players when they have spots locked up. i get the sprtsmanship thing about it, but dont you think its bad sportsmanship to tell a guy how to run his team when he has money involved also?just because you dont like it, does not mean its wrong. im sure some of you dont like it as it effected you, oh well, get a better seed yourself or put those specific rules in writing.

Pro teams bench players to prevent injuries. Period. You don't get the sportsmanship thing about it apparently.

Yes Pro teams bench players to prevent injuries, I get that. But how does that have anything to do with a fantasy roster and playing your best lineup? I asked the question to see what people thought and I appreciate (most) of the responses. I really hope that some of these people who have responded that they've "rested" FANTASY players don't really think that they have any control over the "real" player, if you do I really feel sorry for you.

 

[netnalp]

Instead of fixed seeding, consider allowing higher seeds to pick their playoff opponents from among the lower seeds. My local league has done this for several years now. Works great. No tanking, much agony in the selection process.

With this in my league, only 6 go to the playoffs so the #3 seed gets to pick their opponent week 14 and the #1 seed chooses week 15. Then the highest remaining seed week 16. Works great. And the week 14 bye for the 1st & 2nd seeds is sufficient incentive to not tank a game to get the 3rd seed instead of the 2nd.

 

[Topes]

Instead of fixed seeding, consider allowing higher seeds to pick their playoff opponents from among the lower seeds. My local league has done this for several years now. Works great. No tanking, much agony in the selection process.

I'm generally old school.I believe changing rules to make fantasy football fairer is a slippery slope that leads to points leagues and auto-starts. (More skill. Less luck. Blah, blah, blah...) It's reactionary and emotional, and can result in some of the dubmest rules imaginable. (Plus, of course, unintended consequences.)My league's scoring system is from the early nineties. We couldn't afford decimals, so a yard from scrimmage is a while point; 1000 point weeks are the benchmark of excellence. Why change it?We don't do blind bidding, and I don't use tabbed browsing.All that aside, I've seen roadkill post this setup on the boards now and again. Every time I see it, it gives me a willy.

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

kick the owner out of the league. I had an owner joke with me about doing that and I told him it would get his team the 'death penalty' if he tanked for a better playoff spot.

I never get why people get so mad about this type of move. It's akin to getting mad at someone for not using his driver on the 18th hole of money round after the other three guys put their drives in the water. You play to win the game period. And by game I mean the championship. Like NFL teams haven't altered lineups/sat players of the same reasons before.

Let's say that an NFL coach goes to his weekly press conference and says, "We threw this week's game because doing so meant Team X will probably get into the playoffs instead of Team Y, and we'd rather face Team X if it comes done to one or the other."Do you think the NFL would take no action?

Of course they would (likely due to gambling/point shaving laws more likely). But this is functionally what teams do when they bench all their starters or players with any kind of injury whatsoever.

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

kick the owner out of the league. I had an owner joke with me about doing that and I told him it would get his team the 'death penalty' if he tanked for a better playoff spot.

I never get why people get so mad about this type of move. It's akin to getting mad at someone for not using his driver on the 18th hole of money round after the other three guys put their drives in the water. You play to win the game period. And by game I mean the championship. Like NFL teams haven't altered lineups/sat players of the same reasons before.

Let's say that an NFL coach goes to his weekly press conference and says, "We threw this week's game because doing so meant Team X will probably get into the playoffs instead of Team Y, and we'd rather face Team X if it comes done to one or the other."Do you think the NFL would take no action?

I don't know, but the coach is not going to go into a press conference and say that. People sacrifice their best chance to win a game to rest starters for the playoffs all the time. Is that so different?

Intentionally throwing a game is incredibly different than resting starters but still trying to win the game.

In both cases a team fields an inferior lineup to one that they could because they are thinking of the long term goal of winning the league and not the short term goal of winning the game. No in is saying they don't field a lineup, and they still may win, but they are playing their backups because they feel that doing so will give them a stronger chance to win in the playoffs. Nothing different.

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

I'm not sure I really see a problem here. Fantasy football is a game in which the goal is to win the championship. And as in all games, some part of strategy is making a sacrifice now to get what you believe is a better chance to accomplish that goal. It happens all the time in real life and all types of games:Teams rest players to protect them from injury.In week 17, a team that is already in the playoffs playing a team that may be in the playoffs might play vanilla offensive/defensive schemes to keep strategy hidden.In chess, a player might sacrifice a pawn for a better chance at winning.In poker, a player may call a bet at the end, not because he thinks he has the best hand, but because he believes the information gained will help him later. It already happens in Fantasy Football...some teams will purposely draft multiple players with the same bye, in essence forfeiting one week for a better chance in all the other weeks. Teams might trade a for injured player who is due back in a week or two, hurting their team in the short term for what they believe to be a bigger gain in the long run. You want to make a rule that requires that team must fill out a minimum starting line up (no empty spots), fine, but to make a rule regarding the quality of players is kind of ludicrous considering everyone has different opinions on players anyway.

very

 

[roadkill1292]

Instead of fixed seeding, consider allowing higher seeds to pick their playoff opponents from among the lower seeds. My local league has done this for several years now. Works great. No tanking, much agony in the selection process.

I'm generally old school.I believe changing rules to make fantasy football fairer is a slippery slope that leads to points leagues and auto-starts. (More skill. Less luck. Blah, blah, blah...) It's reactionary and emotional, and can result in some of the dubmest rules imaginable. (Plus, of course, unintended consequences.)My league's scoring system is from the early nineties. We couldn't afford decimals, so a yard from scrimmage is a while point; 1000 point weeks are the benchmark of excellence. Why change it?We don't do blind bidding, and I don't use tabbed browsing.All that aside, I've seen roadkill post this setup on the boards now and again. Every time I see it, it gives me a willy.

I don't know whether that's good or bad.But we've discovered absolutely no downside to picking your playoff opponents. If nothing else, it's one more opportunity for some owners to make a decision and that's usually a good thing for a league. Plus, the potential for smack is greatly heightened when a lower seed beats a higher seed who picked them as the easier opponent.

 

[Topes]

Oh, it was good.

It was allllll good.

I can envision all the scenarios you lay out.

You could call it Pick Your Poison Playoff Seeding.

It could eliminate a lot of the silliness AND quiet the whining AND provide more entertainment, all while doing no harm to Head To Head.

A friend of mine is starting a league next year, and I plan to strongly suggest he investigate this notion.

 

[phillybirds]

The guy submitted a full lineup.

You can't make lineup decisions for another owner.

 

[roadkill1292]

Oh, it was good.

It was allllll good.

I can envision all the scenarios you lay out.

You could call it Pick Your Poison Playoff Seeding.

It could eliminate a lot of the silliness AND quiet the whining AND provide more entertainment, all while doing no harm to Head To Head.

A friend of mine is starting a league next year, and I plan to strongly suggest he investigate this notion.

Thanks very much for the support, then. "Pick Your Poison" is very interesting terminology as I spend a lot of time dreaming up ways to implement versions of it in college football scheduling. It could be lots of fun for the fans, bringing the scheduling process out into the open for all to see as well as the opportunity to generate bad feelings among the participants.

 

[kegger]

I'm surprised people are so enraged by this...You do what you think gives your team the best chance to win outside of collusion. That is the only real solid rule in FF, try to imply other "gray rules" and you end up with a hot mess.Just like in real life if the only way to get the ball back and try to tie/win the game is to let the other team score, then you do it... principles be damned.

You got it, play within the rules setup in the league, anything you can dolegally in said league is fair game, if you get "creative" to WIN so be it.Most are playing to WIN, not be "the best guy you can be", you play to win it an you decided to do something that is within the rules but someone else findsit to be "shady" big ####### deal, anyone else could of done it. So it's legal..

 

[Jersey35]

Instead of fixed seeding, consider allowing higher seeds to pick their playoff opponents from among the lower seeds. My local league has done this for several years now. Works great. No tanking, much agony in the selection process.

We just switched to this. Love it so far.