buck naked
Footballguy
What is it supposed to be?
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Tice on the radio tonight... (1 Viewer)
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dotman
Footballguy
Anyone giving up on SOD now is foolish, no an 8th rounder is not a waste on him, it's week 2!!! Honestly I wonder what you expected. Tice said he didn't want him in there at Lambeau week 1, understandable. Week 2 he gets 9 carries and sees significant time, and does well!!! Now it's only week 3 and Tice said he is going to get more time. I don't think things could be going much better so far for the SOD.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
It's hard to unpack all the stupidity from this statement, but I'll give it a shot.1. "Its not like I took Stewart and Smith out performed him.. " Uh, yes it's exactly like that. Stewart has scored zero fantasy points so far this year, and is guaranteed to finish the year with zero fantasy points. Smith has already outperformed that. And he might (might) end up outperforming Stewart by 100+ points by seasons end. 2. "Its like saying Portis gets season ending injury and people who took Lewis saying man you Whiffed on that pick.. " Yes, it is just like that. If I drafted a guy who ended up giving me zero FP, I would consider that pick a whiff. If you don't like the term "whiff," feel free to choose another term for "a pick I would really like to have back." Of course, this supports my point and undercuts yours.3. "Again both healthy going to this years draft I would take Stewart over Smith EVERY time" That's nice. You would always take an injury-prone back on a bad team over a rookie on a good team. That isn't entirely unreasonable, and I'm sure you can find several good, knowledgable owners who would do the same. But that doesn't change the fact that you were knowingly taking a gamble on Stewart. I would never say you were stupid or foolish to take such a gamble if you knew what you were getting yourself into. But for some reason, you don't feel the need to return the courtesy. In your fantasy world, everybody who knowingly took a gamble on Smith is an idiot for having done so. Why is your gamble (which blew up in your face) brilliant but my gamble was stupid? Especially when the results (Stewart FP = 0, Smith FP > 0) would suggest the opposite if anything?4. "not like Smith has many more FP this year then Stewart and Stewart didn't see a down.. " Right now Smith has infinitely % more points than Stewart. And it's only week 2. Those of us who gambled on Smith might still hit the jackpot. Those of us who gambled on Stewart no longer have any reason to hope.5. "HOW DID I WHIFF??? Its not like I took Stewart and Smith out performed him.. Its like saying Portis gets season ending injury and people who took Lewis saying man you Whiffed on that pick.. Again both healthy going to this years draft I would take Stewart over Smith EVERY time... not like Smith has many more FP this year then Stewart and Stewart didn't see a down..
" Well okay you did get one thing right.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
Well, he is a Raiders fan after all . . .
superbowlchampion
Footballguy
EXACTLY!This thread started off with some interesting comments by Tice (thanks to req) ... especially that Onterrio would see more touches this week AND Moe is NOT an every down back.If people said the first 3 weeks would have gone this way:Week 1: DNPWeek 2: 9 for 47 yards and 1 rec for 9 yardspre-week 3: See Tice's comments.I would have rated Onterrio HIGHER!Enjoy the game this weekend. Best to all.
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mnmplayer
Footballguy
If I recall correctly, at the time I drafted, Stallworth had some question marks on his hammy, Stewart was already injured and Hambrick was taken one pick before mine. Onterrio just kind of fell into my lap at that point.
Stallworth even with a healthy hammy would not be a sure thing imo.RB taken after O. Smith in respective draft order:Hearst, Garrison SFO RBDuckett, T.J. ATL RBStaley, Duce PHI RBSmith, Antowain NEP RBBettis, Jerome PIT RBSmith, Emmitt ARI RBDavenport, Najeh GBP RBThomas, Anthony CHI RBFaulk, Kevin NEP RBBuckhalter, Correll PHI RBPittman, Michael TBB RBStewart, James DET RB (at the time of draft he was expected to come back in 4 weeks)Shipp, Marcel ARI RBGary, Olandis DET RBAlstott, Mike TBB RB (my next RB)(I will stop here)Hearst is overachieving right now and outperforming Smith overall, so I passed on him I suppose you could say. The thing is none of these guys would start on my team so having them perform at slightly better numbers than O. Smith at this point is moot, becaue I would not see the point anyway. Entering into week 3 however, I would not trade Smith for any of the RB I passed up on becaue of the potential value I speculate Smith will have going forward.Now I picked O. Smith in the 4th round! Of course its a little different than most drafts seeing as it was a 14 team league. If it were a 12 team league it would have been a 5th round pick and if it were a 10 team league it would have been a 6th rnd pick (he was picked 52 overall). I did pass Stallworth (hammy), Troy Brown (don't like the situation in NE with spreading the ball so much to so many receivers), and Rod Gardner (already had L. Coles on my team so didn't want two receivers from same team and same bye week although that would ahve been a GREAT WEEK TWO SCORE!). You might say, "See I told you so!" But wait a minute, I still have a WR to replace him a few rounds later. I have Thrash on my roster who only gives up a few points to Stallworth at this point in the season.The fact remains that the WR talent runs deeper than the RB talent, even in speculation. I knew I would have a chance to get decent WR talent in the following rounds, I also knew if I passed on O. Smith I would definately NOT get him the next round in the shark league I was in. I think it turned out alright. I am 2-0 with 2nd highest point total (only behind by 1.5 points) and I picked Onterrio with my 4th pick. So don't say that people are frustrated by picking up O in early rounds.I figure if he pans out, I am going to be producing some serious point totals. It just so happens that Thrash has a bye week this week and I have Wayne and Alstott on my bench so I am starting O. It just worked out that way. If I had Thrash still, I might be starting him instead.
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I am starting Ontarrio Smith as my RB2 this week and I am SITTING William Green versus SF. The Vikes will have the Lions well in hand by halftime and we will see a ton of OSmith in the 2nd half. WGreen will be lucky to see 60 yards and a TD.It's a gut feeling as much as intellectual reasoning that OSmith will outperform Green. I suspect Tice will want to see OSmith in game time versus real defenses and there is no better team to play a little fast and loose with than the Detroit Lions. Plus, the Lions' turf should highlight OSmith's speed over Moe Williams' grind it out style.Finally, Tice's comments that Moe is not a 16-20 carry back and that he wants to run the ball 99.9% of the time, and that Chapman is not healthy tell me that Smith will get Opportunity Galore in this game.I also have Javon Walker going in my flex spot (JHorn and CJohnson are my WR1/2 combo) instead of WGreen (MFaulk and OSmith are at RB1/2 this week) because I believe this week, Walker gets a lot of reps with Favre later into the game as the Pack slices and dices AZ - Favre has to play well at some point this year. If Walker holds any value, he'll show it this week.
Raiders Fan
The Black Hole
The stupidity of your arguement is amazing. You base everything on post injury for Stewart when obviously now Stewart will not get a point. I am talking preinjury leading up to the year. No way does Smith end up with a better year PERIOD. I can feel the bitterness.. Don't worry you can join the Barlow support group of "He's going to start by mid season"...It's hard to unpack all the stupidity from this statement, but I'll give it a shot.1. "Its not like I took Stewart and Smith out performed him.. " Uh, yes it's exactly like that. Stewart has scored zero fantasy points so far this year, and is guaranteed to finish the year with zero fantasy points. Smith has already outperformed that. And he might (might) end up outperforming Stewart by 100+ points by seasons end. 2. "Its like saying Portis gets season ending injury and people who took Lewis saying man you Whiffed on that pick.. " Yes, it is just like that. If I drafted a guy who ended up giving me zero FP, I would consider that pick a whiff. If you don't like the term "whiff," feel free to choose another term for "a pick I would really like to have back." Of course, this supports my point and undercuts yours.3. "Again both healthy going to this years draft I would take Stewart over Smith EVERY time" That's nice. You would always take an injury-prone back on a bad team over a rookie on a good team. That isn't entirely unreasonable, and I'm sure you can find several good, knowledgable owners who would do the same. But that doesn't change the fact that you were knowingly taking a gamble on Stewart. I would never say you were stupid or foolish to take such a gamble if you knew what you were getting yourself into. But for some reason, you don't feel the need to return the courtesy. In your fantasy world, everybody who knowingly took a gamble on Smith is an idiot for having done so. Why is your gamble (which blew up in your face) brilliant but my gamble was stupid? Especially when the results (Stewart FP = 0, Smith FP > 0) would suggest the opposite if anything?4. "not like Smith has many more FP this year then Stewart and Stewart didn't see a down.. " Right now Smith has infinitely % more points than Stewart. And it's only week 2. Those of us who gambled on Smith might still hit the jackpot. Those of us who gambled on Stewart no longer have any reason to hope.5. "
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IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
sighOne last time. When you drafted Stewart (as your RB2), you knew he was injury-prone. You knew he had played all 16 games exactly once in his career. So when you drafted him, you knew you were taking a risk.When I drafted Smith (as my RB4 usually, RB3 once), I knew he was a rookie fighting for playing time. I knew he was unproven and might not amount to anything. So when I drafted him, I knew I was taking a risk.Your gamble blew up in your face. Mine is still in play.Explain to us all again how rolling the dice on Stewart as your RB2 was a stroke of genius, while rolling the dice on Smith as an RB3/4 was stupid.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
Is your MIL pro-Onterrio or anti-Onterrio?
Steelers4Life
Footballguy
You guys are too much!1. Tice wants to run the ball often, but he doesn't consider Moe a 15-20 carry guy regardless of what he's done so far. So, if the Vikings will run it 25-30 times in a game, maybe more, I wonder where the other carries will come from. Hmmmmmm. Onterrio Smith getting 10-20 touches a game is worth something, and his potential is for a lot more. The only thing standing between Onterrio and being a decent starter is the potential return of Michael Bennett. Whether he's healthy or not, Bennett will kill Moe's value AND Onterrio's value.2. Not many people expected Onterrio to be starting by week 3. To think he'll be getting significantly more playing time by week 5 or 6 is completely reasonable.3. Given a choice before this season, I'd have taken Onterrio TEN times out of TEN before James Stewart. In fact, in one league, I did. You don't win with James Stewart as a #2 back, but if you hit it big with Onterrio, you can. Stewart had Bryson to steal carries, and he plays for a team that figured to trail early and often. Not to mention Stewart hasn't been the most durable back over the years. 4. Given the RBs and WRs who could have been drafted when Onterrio was being drafted, Onterrio was easily worth the risk.
Raiders Fan
The Black Hole
Well I can tell you I am not the wife side.
He seems bent on talking post injury to a situation that was predraft strategy. I for one 
of the whole situation as there is no informative analysis being done.I don't recall him saying he was a genius.You, however, don't seem to get that picking a player who then gets injured doesn't make you an idiot either. Faulk & Edge were decent picks their injury years. It's not even clear that certain players are really that "injury prone" (an article on FBG about "no such thing as an injury risk" comes to mind).There really shouldn't be much doubt that in a given round, Stewart is a better pick than Onterrio--assuming that you don't know whether they will get injured... which you dont when you draft. Onterrio is a very good pick in a late round (I got him in 11). Taking him in round 3 which is probably where Stewart went doesn't make sense. Stewart is a solid running back and works for insurance or a passable RB2. O Smith is a flyer, and guys like that never make sense in the early rounds when you can take definite stud WR's instead--especially since it leaves you SOL in the first few weeks.More to the point, can we get back to the subject of how Smith is going to do this year?BTW I for one am delighted with his progress. There's no question that Tice is auditioning him for the starter's role; he's bringing him along slowly which is the smart thing to do.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
Oh really?
Care to retract?
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IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
Perhaps this is true. Which, of course, is why I never drafted Onterrio in the 3rd round in any of my leagues. I don't think anybody is claiming that Onterrio would have been a good 3rd round pick as your RB2. Rather, the argument is whether he was a reasonable gamble as a backup in the middle rounds. Raidersfan seems to think that anybody taking such a gamble is an idiot. I disagree.
Raiders Fan
The Black Hole
I will add this cause you seem to be misinformed as to my point of view. I said you are not bright if you took him early to mid round picks. Taking a flyer on a rookie like Smith a GOOD gamble LATE. Before round 6 where you can get good production isn't smart. Thats the WR #2 area and there were some decent guys. I hope now you understand.
The jury's out on the "gamble" of taking OSmith in the 6th round - which is generally the latest spot you could have taken him after Bennett went down. If you wanted to draft him, you had to spend a 5th or 6th round pick on him. Will the gamble pay off over taking Darrel Jackson or Ike Brice or Jerry Rice? Don't know right now.But, if you are looking at RB3 in the 6th, OSmith m,ight make a good gamble - if that is where you are looking at RB2, he is almost a NECESSARY gamble. Him or Hearst were probably your only real options, and Hearst is probably the better pick while OSmith has a much higher reward factor.On point, things are def. looking up for SOD, this weekend will probably show that, and we can only check back in after this Sunday's game to see whether a 5th-6th round gamble on OSmith carries a decent payoff. One thing glossed over in this thread - don't underestimate Smith's desire to prove the Lions wrong for passing on him, especially considering the teams are divisional rivals.
Well... yes I do in fact.The strangest thing about this whole flamewar is that it doesn't seem like you two really disagree that much on the facts.O Smith was an intriguing back with a chance to start (although the odds were somewhat against this). J Stewart was a solid but not studly RB. Both were potentially good picks depending on round and depending on your needs. I certainly don't think Stewart was a bad pick for a late (~20) RB2.Personally, I'm happy with O Smith & where I took him (can't live down passing on J Lewis at 3.7 -- 17th RB taken -- despite already having two RB's though
). I also think that he is doing as well as could be expected heading into game 3--although the real test is over the next month. Thus far, I'd say he has exactly met my expectations. This week will be a huge test for him. If he doesn't deliver I'd guess he'll get maybe one more chance next week and that's it.
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