Tice on the radio tonight said:1. Onterrio will get the ball more next week against Detroit2. Avery will see more time in certain situations.3. Moe cannot stand the beating of carrying the ball 15-20 times 16 weeks a year.4. Bennett is still targeted to come back Nov. 2 but the next 2 weeks will be telling. If he has any setback whatsoever he will not return this season.5. Some other crap about blocking and matchups with Det that none of you will care about.
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Tice on the radio tonight... (1 Viewer)
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hoosiercatdaddy
Footballguy
thanks for the heads up, great info as I have been waiting to hear about the diamond in the rough i thought I had drafting Smith and waiting to use trade bait, sounds good for Smith owners, I dont see Bennett coming back and being effective. no point for them to risk it if they continue winning -Cat
chief of staff
Footballguy
great!!Thanks for the info R 
eg.
eg.
Steelers4Life
Footballguy
EXCELLENT. Things are going according to plan for Onterrio. Ease his way into the lineup gradually over the first 4 or 5 weeks, learning how to block and showing his talent running the ball.Moe slowly wears down because he's never been an every down back before - something Tice realizes, I'm sure - and Onterrio slowly takes more and more playing time.Next up? Michael Bennett has the small setback that leaves him out for the year. Even if he doesn't, Bennett won't be much of a factor for fantasy purposes this year. You don't miss 2 months of training and all of a sudden come back ready to play football again. All his return would do would kill the values of Moe and Onterrio, making none of them viable starters.
Oh yeah, almost forgot. Tice said he was surprised that the bears stayed in their cover 2 or cover 3 or some defensive name for the coverage all night. He said that since he has coached Randy noone has ever stayed with that coverage all game long and allowed a team to run through them like they did. He did not say if he was expecting a similar situation with Detroit with whom we have never matched up well on the line against.
superbowlchampion
Footballguy
A couple of clips (portions of articles) from the Star Tribune:
http://www.startribune.com/stories/510/4102012.html
Vikings notes: Tice wants to keep running the ball
Kevin Seifert,
Star Tribune
Published September 17, 2003 VNOT0917
No NFL team has attempted more running plays this season than the Vikings, who have rushed 75 times -- two more than the Denver Broncos. And if coach Mike Tice got his way, the differential would not be so close.
"If it was up to me, we would throw the ball twice in the game and run it every other play," Tice said with a smile. "I'm pressing for the run a lot of the time during the game, and we'll continue down that road. I like to run the football. I think it builds a toughness in your team. If you're going to go anywhere in this league, you have to be able to run the ball and be physical with people."
http://www.startribune.com/stories/510/4104210.html
Vikings' Smith is out to prove he was wronged on draft day
Mark Craig,
Star Tribune
Published September 18, 2003 VIKE0918
Vikings running back Onterrio Smith considered himself the steal of the 2003 NFL draft. The Detroit Lions disagreed when they were on the clock with the second pick of the fourth round.
With Smith still available, Detroit chose Kentucky running back Artose Pinner, who had broken his left leg in the Senior Bowl and still is unable to play.
Six selections later, the Vikings picked Smith, who had gone to bed the night before convinced he would be reunited with quarterback and former Oregon teammate Joey Harrington in Detroit.
"I want to do good against everybody, but I really want to take my frustrations out on the guys who passed on me, and the Lions definitely were one of them," Smith said. "I talked to [Lions president and CEO] Matt Millen on that Saturday night after the first day of the draft. He told me Joey was in his office pushing for me, telling him what kind of guy I was. . . . It sparked me up a little bit after a tough day."
http://www.startribune.com/stories/510/4102012.html
Vikings notes: Tice wants to keep running the ball
Kevin Seifert,
Star Tribune
Published September 17, 2003 VNOT0917
No NFL team has attempted more running plays this season than the Vikings, who have rushed 75 times -- two more than the Denver Broncos. And if coach Mike Tice got his way, the differential would not be so close.
"If it was up to me, we would throw the ball twice in the game and run it every other play," Tice said with a smile. "I'm pressing for the run a lot of the time during the game, and we'll continue down that road. I like to run the football. I think it builds a toughness in your team. If you're going to go anywhere in this league, you have to be able to run the ball and be physical with people."
http://www.startribune.com/stories/510/4104210.html
Vikings' Smith is out to prove he was wronged on draft day
Mark Craig,
Star Tribune
Published September 18, 2003 VIKE0918
Vikings running back Onterrio Smith considered himself the steal of the 2003 NFL draft. The Detroit Lions disagreed when they were on the clock with the second pick of the fourth round.
With Smith still available, Detroit chose Kentucky running back Artose Pinner, who had broken his left leg in the Senior Bowl and still is unable to play.
Six selections later, the Vikings picked Smith, who had gone to bed the night before convinced he would be reunited with quarterback and former Oregon teammate Joey Harrington in Detroit.
"I want to do good against everybody, but I really want to take my frustrations out on the guys who passed on me, and the Lions definitely were one of them," Smith said. "I talked to [Lions president and CEO] Matt Millen on that Saturday night after the first day of the draft. He told me Joey was in his office pushing for me, telling him what kind of guy I was. . . . It sparked me up a little bit after a tough day."
mnmplayer
Footballguy
This thread is music to my ears, especially this part
Next week he faces a tough SF Run Defence that is fast, and Atlanta is not too shabby either the following week, then he has a bye week. I think/hope we will know if he becomes the starter by then. If I was Tice and I wanted to build confidence in a Rookie RB, pitting him against Chicago and Detroit back to back would be a great start. Maybe that is why he skipped using O. Smith vs GB?It would have really hurt the rookie's confidence if he made a huge mistake or was not effective in his first game in Green Bay. The way I see it, he is gaining momentum into this game from last week against Chicago and it's going to be his chance to shine and get some ESPN props this Sunday night!I for one want to hear Berman call out Smiths name a few times, and I don't mean the one in ARZ.I can hear it now, "There's a new Smith in town, and his name ain't Emmitt!"Hype machine in full effect!!!
If Vikings jump to an early lead, I think we all know what we will see, RUN!A lot of things are stacking in O. Smith's favor this week.1. Tice said he doesn't think Mo can carry the load 16 games with 20 or more carries.2. O. Smith faces off vs Detroit who has a bad Defense AND passed him up on the draft (remember what happend with NE and the Lawyer? This is not nearly as big a deal but still good hype potential!)3. Tice plans for more carries for O. Smith this Sunday. (he didn't fib to us last week when he said Smith would see action, so why fib now?)4. Vikings will probably jump to an early lead and run all day in the 3rd and 4th quarter, giving Smith his best chance to shine.If there was ever a time to hype O. Smith it is now. Luckily, I don't really need to start him (but am tempted), but I am sure going to be watching this game closely. If he sees 15 or more touches against the Detroit defense, LOOK OUT!!!!
Next week he faces a tough SF Run Defence that is fast, and Atlanta is not too shabby either the following week, then he has a bye week. I think/hope we will know if he becomes the starter by then. If I was Tice and I wanted to build confidence in a Rookie RB, pitting him against Chicago and Detroit back to back would be a great start. Maybe that is why he skipped using O. Smith vs GB?It would have really hurt the rookie's confidence if he made a huge mistake or was not effective in his first game in Green Bay. The way I see it, he is gaining momentum into this game from last week against Chicago and it's going to be his chance to shine and get some ESPN props this Sunday night!I for one want to hear Berman call out Smiths name a few times, and I don't mean the one in ARZ.I can hear it now, "There's a new Smith in town, and his name ain't Emmitt!"Hype machine in full effect!!!
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GoNads
Footballguy
I like the sounds of it, and can't really disagree with any of it. Only Sunday will tell, and I hope you are right. With S. Davis out, SOD gets the nod this week as RB2 over Emmit.I can see it all lining up as well.To add to your list, although it's getting to be more of an afterthought, Chapman is still hurting and shouldn't be in the equation.This thread is music to my ears, especially this partIf Vikings jump to an early lead, I think we all know what we will see, RUN!A lot of things are stacking in O. Smith's favor this week.1. Tice said he doesn't think Mo can carry the load 16 games with 20 or more carries.2. O. Smith faces off vs Detroit who has a bad Defense AND passed him up on the draft (remember what happend with NE and the Lawyer? This is not nearly as big a deal but still good hype potential!)3. Tice plans for more carries for O. Smith this Sunday. (he didn't fib to us last week when he said Smith would see action, so why fib now?)4. Vikings will probably jump to an early lead and run all day in the 3rd and 4th quarter, giving Smith his best chance to shine.If there was ever a time to hype O. Smith it is now. Luckily, I don't really need to start him (but am tempted), but I am sure going to be watching this game closely. If he sees 15 or more touches against the Detroit defense, LOOK OUT!!!!
used_to_could
Footballguy
I was wondering why in the hell the Bears kept doing that especially when the Vikings started going to a double tight end set. They should have seen that the Vikings had their number and made some adjustments at that point.Anyway, thanks for summarizing the radio show info for us.
used_to_could
Footballguy
Did anyone else notice that when Smith played last week almost every play he was involved in was either a run or a play action pass? The Vikings seemed to be pretty cautious about not calling plays where Smith would have to block for Culpepper. The few times that Smith did block he didn't do too good of a job.I'm a Smith fan and I think he has the skills to become the starter once he becomes a better blocker, but I don't think he's ready to beat out Williams just yet.
I listened to the same interview and it actually kind of disheartened me as a O. Smith owner. To me it sounded more like it would be a RBBC type of deal unless Moe gets hurt. My take is that Smith has more talent, but Moe gives the coaches a much greater comfort level and still is effective in his touches. Let's just say I'm happy that O. Smith is my 4th RB in both leagues. Otherwise this situaion would be killing me. On the upside are a couple of things for Smith owners. First, if any back gets the vast majority of touches in that offense he is going to put up some serious stats. Second is that O. Smith is going to continue to get carries going forward. As a Smith owner you hope that leads to him winning the job outright. I guess time will tell.
Goat Herders
Footballguy
Boy, oh boy. How often we see only what we want to see? I think Onterrio is a good option during the middle of the season, but from the info gathered in this thread, the overwhelming Fantasy sentiment is "more carries for Onterrio, and soon enough its his job. Hooray!!!" Is no one else even REMOTELY interested in the fact that the Vikings have HALF of their games remaining after the projected Michael Bennett return date? We'll know in 2 weeks if everything is on schedule, which of course is the most important thing, but to blanketly assume that Michael Bennett will "hold no fantasy value even if he comes back" is silly and naive. Point 1: The coach has stated he likes to run the ballPoint 2: The team has been running the ballPoint 3: One of the 3 best running backs in the NFC last year is rehabbing to be healthy for the second half the season and the playoffs.Does anybody HONESTLY think Michael Bennett is sitting there saying, "I'll just take this year off. Hopefully, our team will suck and so will Onterrio and I'll enter camp next year at the top of the depth chart" ?????? I'd bet Bennett is thinking "Holy S^%&! I've got to get it in gear or I'll be on the chopping block." See the whole picture, people...HERD
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
The whole picture is that Bennett MIGHT be back and cleared to play on November 2.Everybody in the Vikings organization acknowledges that this is far from a sure thing. Note that Tice (who is probably looking at the big picture because he's, you know, their coach and all) admits that any setback, any setback no matter how minor puts Bennett out for the season. Furthermore, we all also know that Bennett is looking at major surgery in the offseason regardless of how his current recovery goes. Does that sound like a guy who is going to just hop back into the starting lineup and regain his old form? It sure doesn't sound that way to me.
If I had some kind of a guarantee that Bennett was going to return on Nov 2 fresh as a daisy, then I would share your pessimsm about any of the other Viking RBs.
But I think the likelihood of Bennett making that kind of return is much less than 50-50. My impression when he was hurt (again) back in July was that he was gone for the season, and nothing has happened in the interim to change that assessment.
(This whole business about Bennett maybe coming back in Nov under the absolute best case scenario is not news -- that was the party line back in July, too. What's changed?)
By all means, if you have a free roster spot and want to take a gamble, pick up Bennett and maybe in 6 weeks it will pay off for you. But I certainly wouldn't expect great things, and it's silly to pretend like your gamble on Bennett is somehow smarter or more certain of paying off than the gamble others have taken on Smith or Moe.
Steelers4Life
Footballguy
Goat Herders, you missed my point. I'm not saying that Onterrio will steal the job and be a stud down the stretch, although there are people who do say that. Without Bennett in the picture, I believe he'll slowly earn more and more playing time as his blocking improves... how much is anyone's guess, but Tice says he'll get more this week. It's not unreasonable to expect that, especially if Moe wears down due to his increased workload. Tice will want to keep both of them healthy.I don't believe that Michael Bennett will be capable of coming back and regaining anything close to the form he had last year. Eddie George struggled with a foot injury for several years, and I don't think that Michael Bennett will recover enough THIS year to be able to carry the load. Hey, I could be wrong, of course. If he DOES make it to the field, it'll only kill the value of Moe and Onterrio, nothing more. A huge percentage of Bennett's yardage came on only a handful of runs last year - a much higher percentage than all of the other top yardage backs. (I saw that in another thread a while back). I don't believe he'll have the burst to get that done this year. Combine that with Moe's production and Onterrio's potential, and I don't see any of them being worth a damn down the stretch if Bennett comes back this year.I'm an Onterrio owner in a dynasty league, but I don't need to count on him this year at all. And I have Onterrio as my RB5 in another redraft league, so I'm not just voicing this opinion because I need him to do well. He'd just be an nice bonus.
Goat Herders
Footballguy
Ivan,
You're absolutely right. I'm certainly not implying that any gamble on Bennett is "better" then a gamble on Smith. As I have state repeatedly, I think Onterrio Smith will be a solid option in the middle part of the season.
However, even if it gets me branded as a party-pooper, I think its prudent to continue reminding O.Smith fans that there is a 3rd side to the story; Michael Bennett.
Diving into the fire because we all "want" Onterrio to be this year's it guy is just plain irresponsible. As you've said yourself, Bennett's return has been Nov. 2nd since July, "nothing has changed." So for all the rhetoric we've been spewing on this situation for 3 months, the Vikings are still saying that their starting RB will be back on Nov. 2nd.
Just trying to make sure we consider all sides.
HERD
You're absolutely right. I'm certainly not implying that any gamble on Bennett is "better" then a gamble on Smith. As I have state repeatedly, I think Onterrio Smith will be a solid option in the middle part of the season.
However, even if it gets me branded as a party-pooper, I think its prudent to continue reminding O.Smith fans that there is a 3rd side to the story; Michael Bennett.
Diving into the fire because we all "want" Onterrio to be this year's it guy is just plain irresponsible. As you've said yourself, Bennett's return has been Nov. 2nd since July, "nothing has changed." So for all the rhetoric we've been spewing on this situation for 3 months, the Vikings are still saying that their starting RB will be back on Nov. 2nd.
Just trying to make sure we consider all sides.
HERD
GoNads
Footballguy
IMO, it all boils down to what Onterrio will do on the field, and we just don't know that yet. At the risk of oversimplifying this:Option 1: Onterrio plays just fairly or poorly, and becomes a certified RBBC member until Bennett comes back (this season or next).Option 2: Onterrio playes well enough to be the starting back with Moe getting the goal line carries. He keeps the seat warm until Bennett comes back (this season or next)Option 3: Onterrio sets the Vikes on fire, becomes the starting back with Moe getting most but not all goal line carries (like they had planned before Bennett gets hurt). Bennett doesn't come back, and we have a Running Back controversy next year (something the Vikings probably wouldn't mind having).I am hoping for #3 as Onterrio is my #4 RB, but I understand any of the 3 above as possible scenarios. 
Defending Champs
Footballguy
Unfortunately, this is the best news I've heard all week. Well, Portis not injured wasn't too bad either, but at least things are headed in the right direction for Onterrio. 
BDubs
Footballguy
Actually, Tice's most recent comments still leave it as a 50-50 proposition at best. The surgical procedure is still, shall we say, experimental. Given the history of NFL RBs (not) coming back quickly from foot injuries, I see no reason to believe Bennett makes an impact this year. He hasn't even started running on it yet. That will be the true test. Maybe the stars align perfectly for him and he gets back on the field, but at this point I just don't see it.
Here's another positive quote from todays Mpls StarTribune for you OSmith owners:
Offensive coordinator Scott Linehan said Smith now can be trusted in the passing game. That's good news for the Vikings, who aren't sure whether running back Doug Chapman will return this week from an ankle injury.
"Moe can play as many downs as we need him to, but he's such a physical-style runner that it's hard for him to hold up 70 snaps the way he plays," Linehan said. "You need a complementary player for Moe. We have kind of a 1-2 punch developing with Moe and Onterrio."
Offensive coordinator Scott Linehan said Smith now can be trusted in the passing game. That's good news for the Vikings, who aren't sure whether running back Doug Chapman will return this week from an ankle injury.
"Moe can play as many downs as we need him to, but he's such a physical-style runner that it's hard for him to hold up 70 snaps the way he plays," Linehan said. "You need a complementary player for Moe. We have kind of a 1-2 punch developing with Moe and Onterrio."
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
RBBC is better for Onterrio owners than his week 1 0-0-0 "performance."Especially if you think that Smith might take over when given the chance to prove himself in a game.
Thanks Ivan, you got the gist. Something is better than nothing. Reading between the lines here in Minny, here's what I get: "Thanks Moe, we need you and we love you, we'll still use you, you've done a great job of holding the position warm and getting the kid ready to play, and now we've got to play him, because he gives us another explosive weapon". That's just my opinion, of course.
Goat Herders
Footballguy
Funny, because when I read between the lines I see...RUNNING BACK BY COMMITTEE"Something" is not better then nothing. "Something" leaves you pulling your hair out when the "other" guy gets the TD...HERD
So with all this talk of who, when and maybe RBBC....Let's talk Moe for the short term (next 3 weeks before Min bye) is his value at the moment as high as it will ever be. All this talk of him not being the everyday guy and not holding the job has me a little worried. He looked like stud material Sunday night during the Bear game. But with Smith over his shoulder and part of the 1-2 punch, then add in Bennett and Chapman the pictures gets crowded. Two many guys in the picture.Is it time to sell him high.....
Alias
Footballguy
I'm not buying the SOD hype yet, I'm benching Eddie G. against the Saints at home in favor of Moe @Detroit, that is unless I hear McNair's finger is still worse then it was on Sunday (at least from the latest on the blogger). But if it his finger is a problem, that might just get Eddie 8 in the box.
Goat Herders
Footballguy
McNair's finger IS worse then it was on Sunday (see the Blogger). They're going to be running plenty against the Saints, trying to control the clock and give the thinned out Defense a chance to rest. I'm in the same boat, but I'm starting Eddie. You never know when Tice is going to decide to give the kid a carry from the 1 to get him his first big-boy TD. That's the problem with this and any other RBBC situation.HERD
Would Smith owners be happy if he was getting Charlie Garner like numbers from the last couple of years?Garner has had to share carries ever since he's been in Oakland, either with Wheatley, Crockett, or now potentially Vargas, but nobody's suggesting Garner isn't worthy of a starting RB spot.Let Moe have the 1 yard TD plunges, but give Onterrio the ball between the 20s and see what he can do. I'm willing to bet he breaks off some long TD runs and gets enough touches in the red zone to put up good TD numbers.
mnmplayer
Footballguy
Wow. Good point. Let's hope O. Smith is a play maker like Garner. After perusing the board a bit, it seems Herd is the kind of guy that starts Moe and E. George types and defends his picks in all the threads concerning the two, so remember this when you hear his side of the story. Oh yes, I just picked up Chris Brown in my 14 team 18 roster league. I think the problem with E. George will become ever more glaring as the team looks to him to carry the Titans without McNair 100%. George has looked pretty bad this season with 6-7 man fronts and I think it's going to get worse for him especially in 8 man front situations. He just can't survive with the speedy defense 2.0 upgrades going on around the league. It's an advantage to have a slashing cutback kind of back. His running style is tired and relegated to short yardage duties these days (or should be). Don't get me wrong, his style has a place and is effective for what it's used for (short yardage situations, not exactly a fantasy football coaches dream), but it's a waste to hand it to him 20 or 30 times a game when you could hand it off to a play maker and have a chance for a score or a big gain. I think all the coaches around the league are starting to realize this fact. His kind will be relegated to goal line duties the way of Moe, Bettis, etc. when explosive backs are on the same team (as long as there is no glaring problem like fumbling). That's just my opinion. I figure Chris Brown is worth a flyer spot on my roster as he is now going to start seeing the field. The extra roster spot is better served than another rookie or washed up WR at this point.What you think bout that Herd? I know you like to push the old slow guys... I must admit Moe has looked good to date, but that just means the O-line would have made O. Smith that much better. I figure they both hit the hole for the initial 4-6 yards, but the difference is this: after that initial pop through the hole, O. Smith makes the secondary defender miss for the big gain while Moe gets slowed down and gang tackled in the same situation. These slow guys are still valuable in the TD only leagues, but I don't think we see to many E. George/Williams types as the RB1 in the league in the coming years (unless there are no other options for that team). It seems to me that all the new backs are being modelled on the Barry Sanders/Faulk types as they should. Just look at the top RBs in the league. With exception to Jamal Lewis who has speed, quickness AND power you have Portis, LT, Holmes, Faulk, Alexander, James, Henry, etc. Don't kid yourself into thinking that the rest of the league isn't searching for their own Faulk or Portis. News flash: Moe Williams/George/Bettis are not that person. Get real. O. Smith might not be the answer either (but he has a chance), but anyone who thinks Moe Williams is the answer or E. George is the answer is in for a rude awakening come mid season. At least O. Smith has the tools to become a play maker. If I were you I would be trading away guys like Moe/George ASAP while they still have some perceived value. In a month or two they will be worth far less. MNM
Goat Herders
Footballguy
I think your mentions of Moe not making defenders miss means you didn't watch the Vikings/Bears on Sunday night. More to the point....You've got it backwards: My defense of Eddie predates him being on my teams. The ENTIRE reason I draft a guy like Eddie is because I believe my arguments. Don't confuse me for the type of guy that defends his players to make himself feel better. Similarly, don't blame me because Eddie has been a top-10 Fantasy back in 3 of the last 4 years, including last year when he looked terrible every week but one or two and still posted over 1000 and 14 TDs. I'll make no apologies in defending my picks and I'll also be the first to declare if my guys are not performing well. Eddie's playing poorly, there's no debating that. Eddie will get better, I believe that too.I think your assertion that giving Eddie the ball 20-30 times a game being a "waste" is a little contrary to the fact that the Titans have the best record in the league over the last 4 years. They'd disagree with you. Furthermore, if you'd done your homework, you'd realize that Brown won't be on the field anytime soon as he isn't up to game speed. (From Jeff Fisher's interview on Fox Sports radio this morning). Chris Brown's a playmaker? Chris Brown was rapidly losing carries at the end of last year on his college team. THe jury's out on his NFL ability. And on top of that, to assume that Moe Williams is benefiting from a great O-line and Onterrio would be that much better is pure speculation on your part. Did you notice Moe make 5.1ypc on his runs? Or how about his long of 17, which was longer then Onterrio's best? Or his 50 yards receiving? That was all offensive line, right? I did notice the Center downfield blocking on Moe's double digit gains. Boy, I bet Onterrio would have been good for 200 and 75 if he'd gotten those touches....Don't blame me because I'm touting a guy that gets 21 carries a game on average and you're touting a guy who is barely seeing the field. I think Onterrio will be a nice find, but everyone seems to be getting WAY ahead of themselves and its only getting worse. Dude is rapidly running out of time to make his case. And if you think there is no place for big nasty up the gut runners in the NFL, I'd encourage you to look at Travis Henry, Jamal Lewis, and Stephen Davis a little harder, not to mention guys like Kevin Jones and Chris Perry who will be running wild in the NFL very soon. HERD
More to the point....You've got it backwards: My defense of Eddie predates him being on my teams. The ENTIRE reason I draft a guy like Eddie is because I believe my arguments. Don't confuse me for the type of guy that defends his players to make himself feel better. Similarly, don't blame me because Eddie has been a top-10 Fantasy back in 3 of the last 4 years, including last year when he looked terrible every week but one or two and still posted over 1000 and 14 TDs. I'll make no apologies in defending my picks and I'll also be the first to declare if my guys are not performing well. Eddie's playing poorly, there's no debating that. Eddie will get better, I believe that too.I think your assertion that giving Eddie the ball 20-30 times a game being a "waste" is a little contrary to the fact that the Titans have the best record in the league over the last 4 years. They'd disagree with you. Furthermore, if you'd done your homework, you'd realize that Brown won't be on the field anytime soon as he isn't up to game speed. (From Jeff Fisher's interview on Fox Sports radio this morning). Chris Brown's a playmaker? Chris Brown was rapidly losing carries at the end of last year on his college team. THe jury's out on his NFL ability. And on top of that, to assume that Moe Williams is benefiting from a great O-line and Onterrio would be that much better is pure speculation on your part. Did you notice Moe make 5.1ypc on his runs? Or how about his long of 17, which was longer then Onterrio's best? Or his 50 yards receiving? That was all offensive line, right? I did notice the Center downfield blocking on Moe's double digit gains. Boy, I bet Onterrio would have been good for 200 and 75 if he'd gotten those touches....Don't blame me because I'm touting a guy that gets 21 carries a game on average and you're touting a guy who is barely seeing the field. I think Onterrio will be a nice find, but everyone seems to be getting WAY ahead of themselves and its only getting worse. Dude is rapidly running out of time to make his case. And if you think there is no place for big nasty up the gut runners in the NFL, I'd encourage you to look at Travis Henry, Jamal Lewis, and Stephen Davis a little harder, not to mention guys like Kevin Jones and Chris Perry who will be running wild in the NFL very soon. HERD
mnmplayer
Footballguy
The Titans have 3 rushing first downs. The Broncos have 34 rushing first downs.How much confindence do you think the Titans have in George again?And if the Vikings are so happy with Moe's production (which has been very good), then why are they bringing in a 4th rounder to give him more time? I think they expect more from their back with the line they have.
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I won't go into all of your points, but there are a couple of issues I have here.Yes, it's speculation, but I think if Onterrio got Moe's touches, yes he would have put up those numbers and more.Regarding Chris Perry, he'll be another in the long line of Michigan running backs who achieve mediocrity, at best, in the pros. Michigan's offensive system, and particulary their strong lines make heroes out of guys like Wheatley, Biakabatuka, A. Thomas, R. Powers et al, but that success doesn't translate to the NFL.I think your mentions of Moe not making defenders miss means you didn't watch the Vikings/Bears on Sunday night.
Goat Herders
Footballguy
I'm not saying the Titans run game isn't struggling a bit. I AM saying they'll keep giving Eddie carries.That's cool, as long as we can agree that speculation about Onterrio at this point is just that - speculation. As I've said REPEATEDLY, I think Onterrio will be a fine RB in FF this year. I just don't like all of the mitigating cirumstance (Moe, Bennett) that come with counting on him as a FF starter.I'll grant you that Perry is hardly a lock to be a successful NFL'er. I overstated that. However, it is by no means a stretch to say if he continues playing the way he is currently, some NFL team will use a 1st or 2nd rounder on him. That in itself is evidence that not every team is dying to have the versatile running backs that are in vogue right now. My point, which I didn't make very well, is that there will ALWAYS be a place in the NFL for big guys that can go off tackle and drive the LBs back a yard or two.HERD
mnmplayer
Footballguy
On Chris Brown:
I should have mentioned that I picked him up this week because I fear if I wait any longer I would not have a shot to pick him up later. I am 2-0 in the 14 team league I am in and I won't have a chance of picking up Brown AFTER any mid season hype, especially if it comes from this board as my league is ful of sharks (Greek Upsilon League with Unlucky and the famous Shick! in it!). If George continues to look bad he has a shot. I am also the 2nd in total points in the league and the team with the most points is 1-1 so I have 14th priority for FA pickups so yes I am picking up Chris Brown a little early, (obviously never got a chance to get Boldin).
If news like this:
http://www.tennessean.com/sports/titans/ar...ent_ID=39377319
were in the headlines instead of a small tidbit at the end of the article, I would not have a shot at Brown. Later in the season if the Coach said, "We are going to give Brown some carries or increase the role of Brown this week." what chance would I have to get him? None, the last place team would get him. Just to be clear I don't expect Brown to get any carries this week
But as far as George is concerened, the writing is on the wall.
Also as any coach will tell you, its not about what you did for us last week, the last year or even the past 4 years, its about what is going to give us the best chance to win the next week. The more weapons, the better your chances.
Giving more carries to O. Smith and less to Moe is indicative of how Tice feels. He thinks he has a greater chance to win with O instead of Moe. And if O does well we will see more of the same. I think the same situation will be faced by George and Brown in Titansville in about a month. Brown will start to see a few carries, then more if he is proving to be worthy of more carries until fianally George is relegated to short yardage situations. Maybe not but for a FA pickup I take my chances. I only give up a roster spot in a pretty deep league. I do not carry Brown in my 10 team league, obviously. I am dropping a 2nd string TE. I am banking on the Titans realizing the problem that has been getting worse over the past 4 years with George, the fact that they did not win the super bowl, and the changes they need to make to take to get them there. McNair and a mediocre receiving core is probably not enough.
Considering guys like Larry Johnson, Lamar Gordon, Lamont Jordon, Maurice Morris etc. are already taken in the 18 roster 14 team league. Brown is really one of the last RB longshots left, and if George continues his current production, will have a legit shot to see the field this year, hopefully in time to make a difference in my FF league. It's all about risk/reward/value analysis. I bet George went in the 2-4 round in most leagues. I picked up Brown for nothing. I like my chances. I would feel nervous if I had George right now regardless of what he has done in the past 4 years. Oh yeah he is old too. That is not enough in and of itself, but couple it with a dropoff in production and its clear to me where he is going.
MNM
P. S. the coach did say this about Brown and another Rookie Defender, ''Andre (the defender)had a great workout in the stadium prior to the game. We think he'll get back into practice this week,'' Fisher said. ''Brown has a good chance to get back on practice field and maybe play.''
I should have mentioned that I picked him up this week because I fear if I wait any longer I would not have a shot to pick him up later. I am 2-0 in the 14 team league I am in and I won't have a chance of picking up Brown AFTER any mid season hype, especially if it comes from this board as my league is ful of sharks (Greek Upsilon League with Unlucky and the famous Shick! in it!). If George continues to look bad he has a shot. I am also the 2nd in total points in the league and the team with the most points is 1-1 so I have 14th priority for FA pickups so yes I am picking up Chris Brown a little early, (obviously never got a chance to get Boldin).
If news like this:
http://www.tennessean.com/sports/titans/ar...ent_ID=39377319
were in the headlines instead of a small tidbit at the end of the article, I would not have a shot at Brown. Later in the season if the Coach said, "We are going to give Brown some carries or increase the role of Brown this week." what chance would I have to get him? None, the last place team would get him. Just to be clear I don't expect Brown to get any carries this week
But as far as George is concerened, the writing is on the wall.Also as any coach will tell you, its not about what you did for us last week, the last year or even the past 4 years, its about what is going to give us the best chance to win the next week. The more weapons, the better your chances.
Giving more carries to O. Smith and less to Moe is indicative of how Tice feels. He thinks he has a greater chance to win with O instead of Moe. And if O does well we will see more of the same. I think the same situation will be faced by George and Brown in Titansville in about a month. Brown will start to see a few carries, then more if he is proving to be worthy of more carries until fianally George is relegated to short yardage situations. Maybe not but for a FA pickup I take my chances. I only give up a roster spot in a pretty deep league. I do not carry Brown in my 10 team league, obviously. I am dropping a 2nd string TE. I am banking on the Titans realizing the problem that has been getting worse over the past 4 years with George, the fact that they did not win the super bowl, and the changes they need to make to take to get them there. McNair and a mediocre receiving core is probably not enough.
Considering guys like Larry Johnson, Lamar Gordon, Lamont Jordon, Maurice Morris etc. are already taken in the 18 roster 14 team league. Brown is really one of the last RB longshots left, and if George continues his current production, will have a legit shot to see the field this year, hopefully in time to make a difference in my FF league. It's all about risk/reward/value analysis. I bet George went in the 2-4 round in most leagues. I picked up Brown for nothing. I like my chances. I would feel nervous if I had George right now regardless of what he has done in the past 4 years. Oh yeah he is old too. That is not enough in and of itself, but couple it with a dropoff in production and its clear to me where he is going.
MNM
P. S. the coach did say this about Brown and another Rookie Defender, ''Andre (the defender)had a great workout in the stadium prior to the game. We think he'll get back into practice this week,'' Fisher said. ''Brown has a good chance to get back on practice field and maybe play.''
mnmplayer
Footballguy
But I already stated that point so there is no reason to reiterate it as a new point to the discussion.
\If you are saying that teams will rely on this type of back as their RB1 in the future and feed him 25-30 carries I disagree. They have a place in short yardage situations, run out the clock situations and goal line situations.
Goat Herders
Footballguy
The Titans didn't win the Super Bowl because Anthony Dorsett is the worst DB in the league. Eddie had 2 TDs in the Super Bowl.Exactly what part of "Minnesota is 2-0" makes you think Tice is itching to switch things up in the backfield?HERD
mnmplayer
Footballguy
Um as A 49ers fan since the Montana era (grew up in the Bay Area) I think there are a few CB that could take that honored title. Images of Irvin and Harper man-handling jump balls from Aikman away from 49er CBs come to mind.
scroll up. I named 4 reasons, one being Tice himself said O would get more. Another person added Chapman being out as a 5th reason.a 6th might be to take some pressure off Moss. Chicago had 3 guys on him all day to shut him down. I guess they thought they could catch the slow Moe from the other side of the field
. Would they have done this if a Portis type player was in the backfield? I don't think so. That is why Faulk/Holt, Hearst/Barlow/TO, Alexander/Krob/DJac, McAllister/Horn/Stallworth, Harrison/Edge Holmes/Gonzo (when healthy)are some of the most feared Offenses in the league.They can't put 3 guys on the receiver like that. If you can't see how a Portis/LT/Faulk type back could help your team then I can't really explain it any further. As far as the Vikings being 2-0 so don't dare touch what is working, BAH HUMBUG to that psyche! Even though I am 2-0 in my FF league, does that mean I am not goingto try and improve my team each week or not play matchups? Just because K. Johnson got me some points last week does that mean I pit him agains the best CB in the league the following week? No.Even though the Vikings have 2 wins, the coaches are still trying to improve their team. It's not like they even blew away Chicago like the 49ers did. It was much closer. And Favre really killed himself more than the VIkings taking that game vs Green Bay. Either Favre killed himself or the Vikings D made great strides in the off-season. My guess is if Favre was on that day Vikings lose.
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Goat Herders
Footballguy
And the truth shall set you free. 1. I like Onterrio Smith2. I don't think he's any of the guys you listedHERD
I usually agree with your posts Herd but not this time.No one in the NFL sees Moe Williams as a 25 carry back. He's a great special teams player, a leader, and dependable.Onterrio is much more similar to Bennett in being a quick, slight back who can dodge behind his OL and end up past the LBs before they know it then.....gone!His inability to get playing time thus far has been lack of trust in blocking. He should learn that as the season progresses.The man no one is mentioning around here is Doug Chapman. THAT is who Vikings wanted to be the starter Week One and will be back very soon. If Onterrio doesn't take the touches away from Williams, Chapman will do it. At halftime of the Bears game Tice was complaining about lack of kickoff coverage. As the team broke the lockeroom Moe went up to Tice and asked him if he wanted him to cover the 2nd half kickoff. Tice said "yes" and Mo covered kicks the second half. That's the kind of player you want! But that's not something you let your running back do if you think he is your man.It's eventually Onterrio. Only thing stopping that is a return from the All-Pro Bennett.
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