Tiktok (1 Viewer)

[Max Power]

Can anyone explain the "threat to national safety" angle to me in explicit terms? That is, just saying "national safety" isn't enough. What, specifically, is the threat? I'm an IT nerd, so please, be technical.

I won't be technical but the amount of data collected by the app is alarming. I'm not exactly how it compares to say, Facebook, but Facebook is owned by a US citizen not an adversarial foreign nation. Technically TikTok is privately owned, not owned by the Chinese government but nothing is truly "privately owned" in China. ByteDance, which is the parent company of TikTok has a 1% share owned by the Chinse government.

I think part of the concern, aside from data collection, is how Tiktoks algorithm can be used to manipulate the users. The feeds are typically cultivated to your tastes, but it is easy to end up in a cultivated echo-chamber pushing dangerous misinformation and outright lies. If they wanted to they could strategically alter the feeds to push targeted propoganda to users. I think that shipped has sailed though as ever since it was "saved" it's become evident who TikTok is working for.

It's the social engineering aspect that is the biggest threat. CCP pays to buy influence on a younger generation. Over time the message becomes more extreme and cultural norms are destabilized.

Discontent for America grows from within and when the country is finally faced with an existential threat, Americans aren't on the same page to fight back.

If an occupation of American soil ever occurs, a fractured society is better for the assimilation aspect.

This is long term, macro level stuff, but its what people (intelligence agencies) believe is happening.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

The talk of the US Gov. owning all or part of tik tok concerns me. Starts to smell like state run media -- which I thought was the concern already regarding China.

Who is talking about the government owning tiktok? This is a first heard for me.

I don't want to get political, but someone posted something on their social media platform about that.

All good. I hadn't heard that and after looking around a bit, I don't see anything about the US government owning tiktok, so I don't see it as a real concern at the moment.

The post says in part: "I would like the United States to have a 50% ownership position in a joint venture." and "Therefore, my initial thought is a joint venture between the current owners and/or new owners whereby the US gets a 50% ownership in a joint venture set up between the US and whichever purchase[r] we so choose."

 

[thecatch]

The talk of the US Gov. owning all or part of tik tok concerns me. Starts to smell like state run media -- which I thought was the concern already regarding China.

I mean only if you also think of the US government as a hostile foreign power.

Different reasons, like the first amendment, which would then actually be applicable instead of people screaming first amendment violations when private companies make decisions that is not first amendment at all.

That would be a different concern.

 

[RCon]

Can anyone explain the "threat to national safety" angle to me in explicit terms? That is, just saying "national safety" isn't enough. What, specifically, is the threat? I'm an IT nerd, so please, be technical.

I won't be technical but the amount of data collected by the app is alarming. I'm not exactly how it compares to say, Facebook, but Facebook is owned by a US citizen not an adversarial foreign nation. Technically TikTok is privately owned, not owned by the Chinese government but nothing is truly "privately owned" in China. ByteDance, which is the parent company of TikTok has a 1% share owned by the Chinse government.

I think part of the concern, aside from data collection, is how Tiktoks algorithm can be used to manipulate the users. The feeds are typically cultivated to your tastes, but it is easy to end up in a cultivated echo-chamber pushing dangerous misinformation and outright lies. If they wanted to they could strategically alter the feeds to push targeted propoganda to users. I think that shipped has sailed though as ever since it was "saved" it's become evident who TikTok is working for.

It's the social engineering aspect that is the biggest threat. CCP pays to buy influence on a younger generation. Over time the message becomes more extreme and cultural norms are destabilized.

Discontent for America grows from within and when the country is finally faced with an existential threat, Americans aren't on the same page to fight back.

If an occupation of American soil ever occurs, a fractured society is better for the assimilation aspect.

This is long term, macro level stuff, but its what people (intelligence agencies) believe is happening.

I'd agree that's happening, but at the risk of becoming political, the call is coming from inside the house and has been for the past thirty years.

 

[Sparky Polastri]

The talk of the US Gov. owning all or part of tik tok concerns me. Starts to smell like state run media -- which I thought was the concern already regarding China.

Who is talking about the government owning tiktok? This is a first heard for me.

Our government....Trump's said it multiple times that the US Gov't should own "half" of it.

 

[Max Power]

The talk of the US Gov. owning all or part of tik tok concerns me. Starts to smell like state run media -- which I thought was the concern already regarding China.

Who is talking about the government owning tiktok? This is a first heard for me.

I don't want to get political, but someone posted something on their social media platform about that.

All good. I hadn't heard that and after looking around a bit, I don't see anything about the US government owning tiktok, so I don't see it as a real concern at the moment.

The post says in part: "I would like the United States to have a 50% ownership position in a joint venture." and "Therefore, my initial thought is a joint venture between the current owners and/or new owners whereby the US gets a 50% ownership in a joint venture set up between the US and whichever purchase[r] we so choose."

Thanks. I was reading the situation as the current admin wanted 50% of ownership to be with an American company or citizen. Admittedly it's not totally clear and I don't like the idea of the government owning half of tiktok. I don't trust government censorship agendas.

 

[Max Power]

The talk of the US Gov. owning all or part of tik tok concerns me. Starts to smell like state run media -- which I thought was the concern already regarding China.

Who is talking about the government owning tiktok? This is a first heard for me.

Our government....Trump's said it multiple times that the US Gov't should own "half" of it.

He said the US government would not be providing any money and there are multiple bidders interested. That doesn't sound like government ownership at all to me.

 

[Sparky Polastri]

Not sure the data is all that big of a concern by itself. I think the larger concern is the general public being used as useful idiots for backdoor development activities through the app once installed. The devices provide all the info necessary at app install to be able to do that. At that point its a sit and wait sort of event for China. They just need the right person to connect to the right network. We have literally millions of unsecured access points in this country to things that are very important.

 

[Max Power]

Can anyone explain the "threat to national safety" angle to me in explicit terms? That is, just saying "national safety" isn't enough. What, specifically, is the threat? I'm an IT nerd, so please, be technical.

I won't be technical but the amount of data collected by the app is alarming. I'm not exactly how it compares to say, Facebook, but Facebook is owned by a US citizen not an adversarial foreign nation. Technically TikTok is privately owned, not owned by the Chinese government but nothing is truly "privately owned" in China. ByteDance, which is the parent company of TikTok has a 1% share owned by the Chinse government.

I think part of the concern, aside from data collection, is how Tiktoks algorithm can be used to manipulate the users. The feeds are typically cultivated to your tastes, but it is easy to end up in a cultivated echo-chamber pushing dangerous misinformation and outright lies. If they wanted to they could strategically alter the feeds to push targeted propoganda to users. I think that shipped has sailed though as ever since it was "saved" it's become evident who TikTok is working for.

It's the social engineering aspect that is the biggest threat. CCP pays to buy influence on a younger generation. Over time the message becomes more extreme and cultural norms are destabilized.

Discontent for America grows from within and when the country is finally faced with an existential threat, Americans aren't on the same page to fight back.

If an occupation of American soil ever occurs, a fractured society is better for the assimilation aspect.

This is long term, macro level stuff, but its what people (intelligence agencies) believe is happening.

I'd agree that's happening, but at the risk of becoming political, the call is coming from inside the house and has been for the past thirty years.

Yeah I think it comes down to the risk/reward angle. It's probably a net negative on the US, but is it enough to upset the cart?

A pessimistic view by me, I think the hook is already in the fish. It just comes down to who/when/how it gets reeled in.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

The talk of the US Gov. owning all or part of tik tok concerns me. Starts to smell like state run media -- which I thought was the concern already regarding China.

Who is talking about the government owning tiktok? This is a first heard for me.

I don't want to get political, but someone posted something on their social media platform about that.

All good. I hadn't heard that and after looking around a bit, I don't see anything about the US government owning tiktok, so I don't see it as a real concern at the moment.

The post says in part: "I would like the United States to have a 50% ownership position in a joint venture." and "Therefore, my initial thought is a joint venture between the current owners and/or new owners whereby the US gets a 50% ownership in a joint venture set up between the US and whichever purchase[r] we so choose."

Thanks. I was reading the situation as the current admin wanted 50% of ownership to be with an American company or citizen. Admittedly it's not totally clear and I don't like the idea of the government owning half of tiktok. I don't trust government censorship agendas.

I think that is what the mandate of the law that was passed was. Bytedance was supposed to sell by Sunday or whatever.

The US owning 50% of a JV was something new -- to me at least -- which I think is problematic. But maybe I am misinterpreting the tweet thing, or maybe that was just an idea he had to control the app and bring money into the US, but was not necessarily vetted.

 

[The Z Machine]

Over time the message becomes more extreme and cultural norms are destabilized.

Uh, I think that's happened without TKTK.

 

[Max Power]

Over time the message becomes more extreme and cultural norms are destabilized.

Uh, I think that's happened without TKTK.

The internet accelerated it and TikTok is currently prone to push a foreign agenda.

 

[Ilov80s]

Discontent for America grows from within and when the country is finally faced with an existential threat, Americans aren't on the same page to fight back.

We are there. If a 9/11 or Pearl Harbor event happened this year, it would be used to political advantage and argued about along familiar partisan talking point lines. “It’s DEI in the military to blame”, “false flag power grab” “conspiracy” “so and so is incompetent and needs to be fired” “govt agency is broken” “social media is to blame” “mainstream media is to blame”. Just all the same stuff we live with on repeat.

 

[Max Power]

Discontent for America grows from within and when the country is finally faced with an existential threat, Americans aren't on the same page to fight back.

We are there. If a 9/11 or Pearl Harbor event happened this year, it would be used to political advantage and argued about along familiar partisan talking point lines. “It’s DEI in the military to blame”, “false flag power grab” “conspiracy” “so and so is incompetent and needs to be fired” “govt agency is broken” “social media is to blame” “mainstream media is to blame”. Just all the same stuff we live with on repeat.

Do you believe the problem is beyond fixing? I hope it isn’t.

Legacy media needs to learn from its missteps and rebuild public trust.

Social media needs additional regulations.

End of the day, I'm not fighting for keeping tiktok. If it stay on in the US with more regulations and bring in money, I think I'm ok with that.

If 75 days go by and nothing changes, I'm not happy about it.

 

[Joe Bryant]

This isn't persuasive to me, as I'm not seeing the difference between TikTok and every other social media app.

No worries. Not everyone will agree on this.

There will be some people who do see a difference between social apps owned by American companies with an open working relationship with our government compared to social media apps owned by Chinese companies.

And absolutely, one could make the argument all social media apps are harmful. Or need more restrictions.

 

[Ilov80s]

Discontent for America grows from within and when the country is finally faced with an existential threat, Americans aren't on the same page to fight back.

We are there. If a 9/11 or Pearl Harbor event happened this year, it would be used to political advantage and argued about along familiar partisan talking point lines. “It’s DEI in the military to blame”, “false flag power grab” “conspiracy” “so and so is incompetent and needs to be fired” “govt agency is broken” “social media is to blame” “mainstream media is to blame”. Just all the same stuff we live with on repeat.

Do you believe the problem is beyond fixing? I hope it isn’t.

Legacy media needs to learn from its missteps and rebuild public trust.

Social media needs additional regulations.

End of the day, I'm not fighting for keeping tiktok. If it stay on in the US with more regulations and bring in money, I think I'm ok with that.

If 75 days go by and nothing changes, I'm not happy about it.

I think it its beyond fixing at least for the next generation or so. Much more likely to get worse than better as everything fragments and win at all costs further dominates politics.

 

[fatness]

Trump says he’s open to TikTok sale to Elon Musk or Larry Ellison

At a press briefing to announce a joint venture for investing in artificial intelligence infrastructure, Trump was asked by a reporter if he was open to “Elon buying TikTok.”
“I would be if he wanted to buy it, yes,” Trump said in response. “I’d like Larry to buy it, too.”

Trump said on Tuesday that TikTok would be “worthless” without a permit to operate in the U.S., but could be worth $1 trillion with one. Musk, who is also CEO of SpaceX and owner of social media app X, was one of Trump’s top financial backers in the campaign and is positioned to wield major influence in the administration. Ellison is a longtime Trump supporter, and Oracle is TikTok’s cloud infrastructure provider in the U.S.

“What I’m thinking about saying to somebody is, buy it and give half to the United States of America,” Trump said. “And we’ll give you the permit.’”

 

[thecatch]

This isn't persuasive to me, as I'm not seeing the difference between TikTok and every other social media app.

There will be some people who do see a difference between social apps owned by American companies with an open working relationship with our government compared to social media apps owned by Chinese companies.

People really aren't seeing a difference between private and location data being stored by a company owned by Mark Zuckerberg versus Xi Jinping? That's rhetorical, because I don't have a lot of interest debating that point with anyone. But it's another data point that makes me sad about the current state of our country.

 

[Joe Bryant]

https://www.cnbc.com/2025/01/21/trump-says-hes-open-to-tiktok-sale-to-elon-musk-or-larry-ellison-.html

President Donald Trump said on Tuesday that he’d consider the possibility of Tesla CEO Elon Musk or Oracle Chairman Larry Ellison purchasing TikTok.

At a press briefing to announce a joint venture for investing in artificial intelligence infrastructure, Trump was asked by a reporter if he was open to “Elon buying TikTok.”

“I would be if he wanted to buy it, yes,” Trump said in response. “I’d like Larry to buy it, too.”

TikTok, which is owned by China’s ByteDance, is in a state of limbo in the U.S. after Trump signed an executive order on Monday to keep TikTok operating in the U.S. for 75 days. That order aims to suspend a ban that went into effect after the Supreme Court last week upheld the validity of a national security law that would penalize app stores and service providers for hosting TikTok unless ByteDance sold it.

Analysts have valued TikTok’s U.S. business at about $50 billion.

Trump said on Tuesday that TikTok would be “worthless” without a permit to operate in the U.S., but could be worth $1 trillion with one.

Musk, who is also CEO of SpaceX and owner of social media app X, was one of Trump’s top financial backers in the campaign and is positioned to wield major influence in the administration. Ellison is a longtime Trump supporter, and Oracle is TikTok’s cloud infrastructure provider in the U.S.

“What I’m thinking about saying to somebody is, buy it and give half to the United States of America,” Trump said. “And we’ll give you the permit.’”

Trump said ByteDance would have “the ultimate partner” in the U.S. which would “make it very worthwhile for them in terms of the permits and everything else.”

Not sure how this thread will surivive as it's now straight politics and is already devolving into snark. Please stop that.

This is the article from CNBC.

The one political statement on this is I do not like the idea of the US owning any of it. it should be independently owned.

Now please keep the politics out.

 

[3C's]

Someone really thinks a company is going to buy another company for who knows how many billions and just "give away" half of it. Someone should ask themself if they would do the same.

 

[RCon]

This isn't persuasive to me, as I'm not seeing the difference between TikTok and every other social media app.

There will be some people who do see a difference between social apps owned by American companies with an open working relationship with our government compared to social media apps owned by Chinese companies.

People really aren't seeing a difference between private and location data being stored by a company owned by Mark Zuckerberg versus Xi Jinping? That's rhetorical, because I don't have a lot of interest debating that point with anyone. But it's another data point that makes me sad about the current state of our country.

I don't see a significant difference, no. I'd argue that anyone who does see a significant difference is extremely naive about the motivations of Zuckerberg, Musk. Bezos, et.al.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

This isn't persuasive to me, as I'm not seeing the difference between TikTok and every other social media app.

There will be some people who do see a difference between social apps owned by American companies with an open working relationship with our government compared to social media apps owned by Chinese companies.

People really aren't seeing a difference between private and location data being stored by a company owned by Mark Zuckerberg versus Xi Jinping? That's rhetorical, because I don't have a lot of interest debating that point with anyone. But it's another data point that makes me sad about the current state of our country.

It's best just to agree to disagree and move on. There is no common ground to be found here.

 

[Joe Bryant]

This isn't persuasive to me, as I'm not seeing the difference between TikTok and every other social media app.

There will be some people who do see a difference between social apps owned by American companies with an open working relationship with our government compared to social media apps owned by Chinese companies.

People really aren't seeing a difference between private and location data being stored by a company owned by Mark Zuckerberg versus Xi Jinping? That's rhetorical, because I don't have a lot of interest debating that point with anyone. But it's another data point that makes me sad about the current state of our country.

I don't see a significant difference, no. I'd argue that anyone who does see a significant difference is extremely naive about the motivations of Zuckerberg, Musk. Bezos, et.al.

Cool.

I don't think anyone has interest in trying to persuade you there. Even with the "naive" zingers. Thanks.

 

[Joe Bryant]

This isn't persuasive to me, as I'm not seeing the difference between TikTok and every other social media app.

There will be some people who do see a difference between social apps owned by American companies with an open working relationship with our government compared to social media apps owned by Chinese companies.

People really aren't seeing a difference between private and location data being stored by a company owned by Mark Zuckerberg versus Xi Jinping? That's rhetorical, because I don't have a lot of interest debating that point with anyone. But it's another data point that makes me sad about the current state of our country.

It's best just to agree to disagree and move on. There is no common ground to be found here.

Yes.

 

[CGRdrJoe]

https://www.cnbc.com/2025/01/21/trump-says-hes-open-to-tiktok-sale-to-elon-musk-or-larry-ellison-.html

President Donald Trump said on Tuesday that he’d consider the possibility of Tesla CEO Elon Musk or Oracle Chairman Larry Ellison purchasing TikTok.

At a press briefing to announce a joint venture for investing in artificial intelligence infrastructure, Trump was asked by a reporter if he was open to “Elon buying TikTok.”

“I would be if he wanted to buy it, yes,” Trump said in response. “I’d like Larry to buy it, too.”

TikTok, which is owned by China’s ByteDance, is in a state of limbo in the U.S. after Trump signed an executive order on Monday to keep TikTok operating in the U.S. for 75 days. That order aims to suspend a ban that went into effect after the Supreme Court last week upheld the validity of a national security law that would penalize app stores and service providers for hosting TikTok unless ByteDance sold it.

Analysts have valued TikTok’s U.S. business at about $50 billion.

Trump said on Tuesday that TikTok would be “worthless” without a permit to operate in the U.S., but could be worth $1 trillion with one.

Musk, who is also CEO of SpaceX and owner of social media app X, was one of Trump’s top financial backers in the campaign and is positioned to wield major influence in the administration. Ellison is a longtime Trump supporter, and Oracle is TikTok’s cloud infrastructure provider in the U.S.

“What I’m thinking about saying to somebody is, buy it and give half to the United States of America,” Trump said. “And we’ll give you the permit.’”

Trump said ByteDance would have “the ultimate partner” in the U.S. which would “make it very worthwhile for them in terms of the permits and everything else.”

Not sure how this thread will surivive as it's now straight politics and is already devolving into snark. Please stop that.

This is the article from CNBC.

The one political statement on this is I do not like the idea of the US owning any of it. it should be independently owned.

Now please keep the politics out.

Joe it's not political, it's actual real life playing out before our eyes in that this isn't left or right but the wealthiest purchasing and owning what influences people.

 

[massraider]

This isn't persuasive to me, as I'm not seeing the difference between TikTok and every other social media app.

There will be some people who do see a difference between social apps owned by American companies with an open working relationship with our government compared to social media apps owned by Chinese companies.

People really aren't seeing a difference between private and location data being stored by a company owned by Mark Zuckerberg versus Xi Jinping? That's rhetorical, because I don't have a lot of interest debating that point with anyone. But it's another data point that makes me sad about the current state of our country.

I don't see a significant difference, no. I'd argue that anyone who does see a significant difference is extremely naive about the motivations of Zuckerberg, Musk. Bezos, et.al.

Me neither.

I haven't seen any compelling evidence that TikTok data collection is any different than any other social media site. And since these social media sites are all selling all this data, and since I am unaware of Chinese companies being unable to purchase this data, I don't know what TikTok collects that China cannot simply purchase.

I saw this article:

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-64797355

I mean, I understand the risk China represents, and that they don't play nice in the sandbox. But unless people believe that American companies won't sell data to China.....what's TikTok doing that's different? Cutting out the middle man?

Maybe I missed the link to the proof, I haven't read the entire thread.

 

[Sparky Polastri]

This isn't persuasive to me, as I'm not seeing the difference between TikTok and every other social media app.

There will be some people who do see a difference between social apps owned by American companies with an open working relationship with our government compared to social media apps owned by Chinese companies.

People really aren't seeing a difference between private and location data being stored by a company owned by Mark Zuckerberg versus Xi Jinping? That's rhetorical, because I don't have a lot of interest debating that point with anyone. But it's another data point that makes me sad about the current state of our country.

It's best just to agree to disagree and move on. There is no common ground to be found here.

I sorta see the point from an idealistic point of view. "All or nothing" is a tempting argument from that perspective. And at one time there was another significant difference between someone like Zuck and China and that was the fact that Zuck would be subject to US law/regulations etc. As we move on, that seems to be less and less true and thus, not the significant difference it was.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

This isn't persuasive to me, as I'm not seeing the difference between TikTok and every other social media app.

There will be some people who do see a difference between social apps owned by American companies with an open working relationship with our government compared to social media apps owned by Chinese companies.

People really aren't seeing a difference between private and location data being stored by a company owned by Mark Zuckerberg versus Xi Jinping? That's rhetorical, because I don't have a lot of interest debating that point with anyone. But it's another data point that makes me sad about the current state of our country.

I don't see a significant difference, no. I'd argue that anyone who does see a significant difference is extremely naive about the motivations of Zuckerberg, Musk. Bezos, et.al.

One is greed/personal wealth, the other is to become the ultimate world super power at the expense and demise of their enemy (US).

I get what you are saying, and there are some similarities, and I guess the data can be sold to Chinese firms (can it -- is that legal or regulated at all?), but there also are some major distinctions and differences as well.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

https://www.cnbc.com/2025/01/21/trump-says-hes-open-to-tiktok-sale-to-elon-musk-or-larry-ellison-.html

President Donald Trump said on Tuesday that he’d consider the possibility of Tesla CEO Elon Musk or Oracle Chairman Larry Ellison purchasing TikTok.

At a press briefing to announce a joint venture for investing in artificial intelligence infrastructure, Trump was asked by a reporter if he was open to “Elon buying TikTok.”

“I would be if he wanted to buy it, yes,” Trump said in response. “I’d like Larry to buy it, too.”

TikTok, which is owned by China’s ByteDance, is in a state of limbo in the U.S. after Trump signed an executive order on Monday to keep TikTok operating in the U.S. for 75 days. That order aims to suspend a ban that went into effect after the Supreme Court last week upheld the validity of a national security law that would penalize app stores and service providers for hosting TikTok unless ByteDance sold it.

Analysts have valued TikTok’s U.S. business at about $50 billion.

Trump said on Tuesday that TikTok would be “worthless” without a permit to operate in the U.S., but could be worth $1 trillion with one.

Musk, who is also CEO of SpaceX and owner of social media app X, was one of Trump’s top financial backers in the campaign and is positioned to wield major influence in the administration. Ellison is a longtime Trump supporter, and Oracle is TikTok’s cloud infrastructure provider in the U.S.

“What I’m thinking about saying to somebody is, buy it and give half to the United States of America,” Trump said. “And we’ll give you the permit.’”

Trump said ByteDance would have “the ultimate partner” in the U.S. which would “make it very worthwhile for them in terms of the permits and everything else.”

Not sure how this thread will surivive as it's now straight politics and is already devolving into snark. Please stop that.

This is the article from CNBC.

The one political statement on this is I do not like the idea of the US owning any of it. it should be independently owned.

Now please keep the politics out.

I don't know that a discussion around this is political. It can create a debate around the constitution, state media, etc., but I don't view all topics about government or the constitution as politics.

 

[Joe Bryant]

but I don't view all topics about government or the constitution as politics.

Thanks. Any discussion on government and the constitution will almost surely turn into politics if we don't actively keep it from that. And maybe that's not possible and maybe we should lock the thread but I'd like to give it a try if we can.

 

[The Z Machine]

It's quite possible that there are some real state security risks that TikTok poses that other social media platforms don't. A 1% ownership stake by the Chinese government doesn't sway me. Now if there was proof that the Chinese government was using TikTok for espionage purposes (and I don't mean data collection, profiling). I mean like recruitment of assets, penetrating the classification system, etc. then I can understand the banning.

 

[thecatch]

It's quite possible that there are some real state security risks that TikTok poses that other social media platforms don't. A 1% ownership stake by the Chinese government doesn't sway me. Now if there was proof that the Chinese government was using TikTok for espionage purposes (and I don't mean data collection, profiling). I mean like recruitment of assets, penetrating the classification system, etc. then I can understand the banning.

Take a look into what a golden share is.

 

[AAABatteries]

After the initial whining and crying, how would anybody's life change if they had to switch to another app to watch the same videos while they use the bathroom?

This probably makes me sound like an old out of touch codger, but I was surprised to learn how many people apparently run their business through TikTok. I'm not suggesting that's a good reason to not ban it - just found it interesting. I just assumed TikTok, and most other social media apps were mainly used for one thing - p0rn.

 

[Joe Bryant]

After the initial whining and crying, how would anybody's life change if they had to switch to another app to watch the same videos while they use the bathroom?

This probably makes me sound like an old out of touch codger, but I was surprised to learn how many people apparently run their business through TikTok. I'm not suggesting that's a good reason to not ban it - just found it interesting. I just assumed TikTok, and most other social media apps were mainly used for one thing - p0rn.

Thanks. Can you elaborate on what you mean by "run their business through it".

 

[AAABatteries]

After the initial whining and crying, how would anybody's life change if they had to switch to another app to watch the same videos while they use the bathroom?

This probably makes me sound like an old out of touch codger, but I was surprised to learn how many people apparently run their business through TikTok. I'm not suggesting that's a good reason to not ban it - just found it interesting. I just assumed TikTok, and most other social media apps were mainly used for one thing - p0rn.

Thanks. Can you elaborate on what you mean by "run their business through it".

This was per Mrs. AAA - she runs home-based businesses and knows others that do the same (I'd have to ask her which types of businesses). She doesn't but knows folks who were having to "migrate" to another app to run their business. No clue on the number of businesses but it did sound like some people were having their livelihood impacted by this. Again, not suggesting we should not ban it because of that - I was just surprised as I was not aware people did that.

 

[Desert_Power]

After the initial whining and crying, how would anybody's life change if they had to switch to another app to watch the same videos while they use the bathroom?

This probably makes me sound like an old out of touch codger, but I was surprised to learn how many people apparently run their business through TikTok. I'm not suggesting that's a good reason to not ban it - just found it interesting. I just assumed TikTok, and most other social media apps were mainly used for one thing - p0rn.

Thanks. Can you elaborate on what you mean by "run their business through it".

This was per Mrs. AAA - she runs home-based businesses and knows others that do the same (I'd have to ask her which types of businesses). She doesn't but knows folks who were having to "migrate" to another app to run their business. No clue on the number of businesses but it did sound like some people were having their livelihood impacted by this. Again, not suggesting we should not ban it because of that - I was just surprised as I was not aware people did that.

Tiktok has really pushed their shop on a lot of the creators. I mostly consume sports card content on there and they had a big effort to move sellers from off platform payment types to their shop. Honestly, must better experience as a consumer and cut out on some pure scamming going on.

Has to be frustrating if you built out your business around the shop.

 

[Joe Bryant]

After the initial whining and crying, how would anybody's life change if they had to switch to another app to watch the same videos while they use the bathroom?

This probably makes me sound like an old out of touch codger, but I was surprised to learn how many people apparently run their business through TikTok. I'm not suggesting that's a good reason to not ban it - just found it interesting. I just assumed TikTok, and most other social media apps were mainly used for one thing - p0rn.

Thanks. Can you elaborate on what you mean by "run their business through it".

This was per Mrs. AAA - she runs home-based businesses and knows others that do the same (I'd have to ask her which types of businesses). She doesn't but knows folks who were having to "migrate" to another app to run their business. No clue on the number of businesses but it did sound like some people were having their livelihood impacted by this. Again, not suggesting we should not ban it because of that - I was just surprised as I was not aware people did that.

Thanks. You mean like use TikTok as a way to connect with customers?

I'm not familiar with the TikTok shop. Was that a retail platform on the site?

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

After the initial whining and crying, how would anybody's life change if they had to switch to another app to watch the same videos while they use the bathroom?

This probably makes me sound like an old out of touch codger, but I was surprised to learn how many people apparently run their business through TikTok. I'm not suggesting that's a good reason to not ban it - just found it interesting. I just assumed TikTok, and most other social media apps were mainly used for one thing - p0rn.

Thanks. Can you elaborate on what you mean by "run their business through it".

This was per Mrs. AAA - she runs home-based businesses and knows others that do the same (I'd have to ask her which types of businesses). She doesn't but knows folks who were having to "migrate" to another app to run their business. No clue on the number of businesses but it did sound like some people were having their livelihood impacted by this. Again, not suggesting we should not ban it because of that - I was just surprised as I was not aware people did that.

Those businesses are probably akin to your initial thought.

 

[djmich]

It's quite possible that there are some real state security risks that TikTok poses that other social media platforms don't. A 1% ownership stake by the Chinese government doesn't sway me. Now if there was proof that the Chinese government was using TikTok for espionage purposes (and I don't mean data collection, profiling). I mean like recruitment of assets, penetrating the classification system, etc. then I can understand the banning.

I don't trust our politicians too much, but with an overwhelming bipartisan vote of support I'm kinda ok not fighting for China on this one.

 

[fatness]

Someone really thinks a company is going to buy another company for who knows how many billions and just "give away" half of it. Someone should ask themself if they would do the same.

But nobody thinks that.
However, I could see someone comparing the purchase cost (which of course is not a stack of cash handed over, it's mostly borrowed money) with whatever they were getting in return. And since they'd be negotiating with the government they could get regulatory relief, issuance or cancellation of permits, judicial relief, any number of things that would make their business(es) money.
Why wouldn't a business owner look at that?

 

[3C's]

Someone really thinks a company is going to buy another company for who knows how many billions and just "give away" half of it. Someone should ask themself if they would do the same.

But nobody thinks that.
However, I could see someone comparing the purchase cost (which of course is not a stack of cash handed over, it's mostly borrowed money) with whatever they were getting in return. And since they'd be negotiating with the government they could get regulatory relief, issuance or cancellation of permits, judicial relief, any number of things that would make their business(es) money.
Why wouldn't a business owner look at that?

Quoting your post: “What I’m thinking about saying to somebody is, buy it and give half to the United States of America,” Trump said.

 

[strykerpks]

After the initial whining and crying, how would anybody's life change if they had to switch to another app to watch the same videos while they use the bathroom?

This probably makes me sound like an old out of touch codger, but I was surprised to learn how many people apparently run their business through TikTok. I'm not suggesting that's a good reason to not ban it - just found it interesting. I just assumed TikTok, and most other social media apps were mainly used for one thing - p0rn.

Thanks. Can you elaborate on what you mean by "run their business through it".

Completely anecdotal but here's a FB post from a friend's husband who started his side gig through TT. It goes longer but I snipped it for politics.

TLDR the TT algorithm helped an entrepreneur reach his intended audiences better than others, allowing for better sales.

Tiktok Ban Thoughts...
We/I will be DIRECTLY impacted by the TIKTOK Ban.
A story.
3 years ago I decided to start a business in waterfowl. At the time I hoped I'd make enough money to cover a few car payments every year, or a month or two of daycare expenses etc.
I felt I had a product, that was useful and for the most part, non existent in the niche. I researched, designed, tested and finally came out with my first product, the Shotty Shell Pouch. I purchased a measly 100 pouches with my first order, hoping to sell them over the summer. Make a few bucks and reinvest in more pouches.
I created a short Tiktok video, using some keywords relevant to the duck hunting world, and the video reached nearly 30,000 accounts, in a 36 hour period. This was FREE marketing. A large amount of them were directly tied to the waterfowl industry and users who had interests in duck and goose hunting.
I sold EVERY pouch I purchased in about 36 hours. Yea, it was only around 70 orders, but the POWER of the TIKTOK ALGORITHUM was alive and well. On NO OTHER SOCIAL MEDIA could I target a specific niche and get my video posted to that niche without paying money. The same video on Facebook, got 29 views, Instagram, maybe 200. On Facebook, of these 29 views...several comments hating on hunting...Facebook and Instagram constantly have spam accounts and hackers, and push videos to people outside of the Niche. On Tiktok...kinda funny, I can't actually post hunting content....but it's better at reaching that niche than any other "AMERICAN" app.
A few weeks later I recieved a second order of pouches, 200 this time. Made a tiktok video. Sold every single pouch, again within 48 hours.
Reupped again, this time with 300 pouches, same outcome. 600 pouches, same outcome. 900 pouches same outcome....but this time it took about 2 weeks to sell them.
Over the last 2 years my small business has grown so much so that I am ordering 6,000-9,000 pouches an order, created blind bags, gun cases, backpacks, game straps, apparel, hats, stickers etc. Instead of my hope of 10-20 orders per month, I am now doing 50-150 orders EVERYDAY during the hunting season.
ALL this growth is tied almost directly to Tiktok, and at this point word of mouth. Tiktok has helped my company grow by over 200% in the last year.
There are over 2 million small business in the USA on Tiktok. Real People. Brick and Morter. Ecomm. Direct to Consumer brands. Content creators. This ban will directly impact over 2 million families in the United States, and probably even more than that, TBH.

 

[Sparky Polastri]

The longer this goes on, the longer it seems like yet another grift. Just trying to dump a functioning company in the laps of another billionaire/company. I'm beginning to believe they care less and less about the actual problems with the platform if they even know what the findings were/are.

 

[Joe Bryant]

After the initial whining and crying, how would anybody's life change if they had to switch to another app to watch the same videos while they use the bathroom?

This probably makes me sound like an old out of touch codger, but I was surprised to learn how many people apparently run their business through TikTok. I'm not suggesting that's a good reason to not ban it - just found it interesting. I just assumed TikTok, and most other social media apps were mainly used for one thing - p0rn.

Thanks. Can you elaborate on what you mean by "run their business through it".

Completely anecdotal but here's a FB post from a friend's husband who started his side gig through TT. It goes longer but I snipped it for politics.

TLDR the TT algorithm helped an entrepreneur reach his intended audiences better than others, allowing for better sales.

Tiktok Ban Thoughts...
We/I will be DIRECTLY impacted by the TIKTOK Ban.
A story.
3 years ago I decided to start a business in waterfowl. At the time I hoped I'd make enough money to cover a few car payments every year, or a month or two of daycare expenses etc.
I felt I had a product, that was useful and for the most part, non existent in the niche. I researched, designed, tested and finally came out with my first product, the Shotty Shell Pouch. I purchased a measly 100 pouches with my first order, hoping to sell them over the summer. Make a few bucks and reinvest in more pouches.
I created a short Tiktok video, using some keywords relevant to the duck hunting world, and the video reached nearly 30,000 accounts, in a 36 hour period. This was FREE marketing. A large amount of them were directly tied to the waterfowl industry and users who had interests in duck and goose hunting.
I sold EVERY pouch I purchased in about 36 hours. Yea, it was only around 70 orders, but the POWER of the TIKTOK ALGORITHUM was alive and well. On NO OTHER SOCIAL MEDIA could I target a specific niche and get my video posted to that niche without paying money. The same video on Facebook, got 29 views, Instagram, maybe 200. On Facebook, of these 29 views...several comments hating on hunting...Facebook and Instagram constantly have spam accounts and hackers, and push videos to people outside of the Niche. On Tiktok...kinda funny, I can't actually post hunting content....but it's better at reaching that niche than any other "AMERICAN" app.
A few weeks later I recieved a second order of pouches, 200 this time. Made a tiktok video. Sold every single pouch, again within 48 hours.
Reupped again, this time with 300 pouches, same outcome. 600 pouches, same outcome. 900 pouches same outcome....but this time it took about 2 weeks to sell them.
Over the last 2 years my small business has grown so much so that I am ordering 6,000-9,000 pouches an order, created blind bags, gun cases, backpacks, game straps, apparel, hats, stickers etc. Instead of my hope of 10-20 orders per month, I am now doing 50-150 orders EVERYDAY during the hunting season.
ALL this growth is tied almost directly to Tiktok, and at this point word of mouth. Tiktok has helped my company grow by over 200% in the last year.
There are over 2 million small business in the USA on Tiktok. Real People. Brick and Morter. Ecomm. Direct to Consumer brands. Content creators. This ban will directly impact over 2 million families in the United States, and probably even more than that, TBH.

Thanks. For this person and others, they are not actually selling their product on TikTok, they are using TikTok as a platform to promote and market their product, right?

 

[strykerpks]

After the initial whining and crying, how would anybody's life change if they had to switch to another app to watch the same videos while they use the bathroom?

This probably makes me sound like an old out of touch codger, but I was surprised to learn how many people apparently run their business through TikTok. I'm not suggesting that's a good reason to not ban it - just found it interesting. I just assumed TikTok, and most other social media apps were mainly used for one thing - p0rn.

Thanks. Can you elaborate on what you mean by "run their business through it".

Completely anecdotal but here's a FB post from a friend's husband who started his side gig through TT. It goes longer but I snipped it for politics.

TLDR the TT algorithm helped an entrepreneur reach his intended audiences better than others, allowing for better sales.

Tiktok Ban Thoughts...
We/I will be DIRECTLY impacted by the TIKTOK Ban.
A story.
3 years ago I decided to start a business in waterfowl. At the time I hoped I'd make enough money to cover a few car payments every year, or a month or two of daycare expenses etc.
I felt I had a product, that was useful and for the most part, non existent in the niche. I researched, designed, tested and finally came out with my first product, the Shotty Shell Pouch. I purchased a measly 100 pouches with my first order, hoping to sell them over the summer. Make a few bucks and reinvest in more pouches.
I created a short Tiktok video, using some keywords relevant to the duck hunting world, and the video reached nearly 30,000 accounts, in a 36 hour period. This was FREE marketing. A large amount of them were directly tied to the waterfowl industry and users who had interests in duck and goose hunting.
I sold EVERY pouch I purchased in about 36 hours. Yea, it was only around 70 orders, but the POWER of the TIKTOK ALGORITHUM was alive and well. On NO OTHER SOCIAL MEDIA could I target a specific niche and get my video posted to that niche without paying money. The same video on Facebook, got 29 views, Instagram, maybe 200. On Facebook, of these 29 views...several comments hating on hunting...Facebook and Instagram constantly have spam accounts and hackers, and push videos to people outside of the Niche. On Tiktok...kinda funny, I can't actually post hunting content....but it's better at reaching that niche than any other "AMERICAN" app.
A few weeks later I recieved a second order of pouches, 200 this time. Made a tiktok video. Sold every single pouch, again within 48 hours.
Reupped again, this time with 300 pouches, same outcome. 600 pouches, same outcome. 900 pouches same outcome....but this time it took about 2 weeks to sell them.
Over the last 2 years my small business has grown so much so that I am ordering 6,000-9,000 pouches an order, created blind bags, gun cases, backpacks, game straps, apparel, hats, stickers etc. Instead of my hope of 10-20 orders per month, I am now doing 50-150 orders EVERYDAY during the hunting season.
ALL this growth is tied almost directly to Tiktok, and at this point word of mouth. Tiktok has helped my company grow by over 200% in the last year.
There are over 2 million small business in the USA on Tiktok. Real People. Brick and Morter. Ecomm. Direct to Consumer brands. Content creators. This ban will directly impact over 2 million families in the United States, and probably even more than that, TBH.

Thanks. For this person and others, they are not actually selling their product on TikTok, they are using TikTok as a platform to promote and market their product, right?

Both. He has a TT shop and now a website.

 

[Max Power]

Just saw Mr. Beast is making a bid for TT. I never understood his content, but he's done a lot in the social media space.

 

[rockaction]

That's two posts about the perils of non-enforcement by the executive as a method of achieving policy aims, and both needed to be deleted by me as they were political or structural discussions. Summation: I think it's a really bad idea to start doing this on the reg. It wasn't a good idea when we started it (I won't name names), and it's not a good idea now.

 

[Juxtatarot]

That's two posts about the perils of non-enforcement by the executive as a method of achieving policy aims, and both needed to be deleted by me as they were political or structural discussions. Summation: I think it's a really bad idea to start doing this on the reg. It wasn't a good idea when we started it (I won't name names), and it's not a good idea now.

It seems to me that the "no politics" line is a little looser than it was, say, a year ago. Is that bad? I don't know and it ain't up to me.

 

[Max Power]

That's two posts about the perils of non-enforcement by the executive as a method of achieving policy aims, and both needed to be deleted by me as they were political or structural discussions. Summation: I think it's a really bad idea to start doing this on the reg. It wasn't a good idea when we started it (I won't name names), and it's not a good idea now.

I didn't disagree with your points.

I think the timeline for the ban was the biggest obstacle. The legislation picked probably the worst date possible, and enforcement fell into a gray area.

 

[rockaction]

The legislation picked probably the worst date possible, and enforcement fell into a gray area.

That's an excellent point. I guess if you're going on a case-by-case basis then I can understand the non-enforcement here. I think if you look at it from a macro level, then one might come to a different conclusion.

Anyway, I didn't really want to dwell on it too badly in this thread. It's just something I've been wondering about for nearly sixteen years and I think the logical conclusion is rearing its head in the executive branches at the federal, state, and municipal levels. And I started to go again into it, but I'll stop.