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Tim Tebow - 8.17.21 Waived By Jacksonville (3 Viewers)

Given the talent dropping, it wouldn't surprise me if Denver takes a C in the mid 2nd (JD Walton? Matt Tennant?) and they have two picks in the 3rd Round that could be used for depth purposes if somebody they like as a R2 talent drops.

Keep in mind that they drafted Richard Quinn as their blocking TE of the future last year and Daniel Graham's enough of a receiver to fill that role too. McDaniels comes from a philosophy that doesn't utilize a receiving TE much so I think expectations of them taking an Aaron Hernandez/Dennis Pitta type are misdirected.

 
DawnBTVS said:
hxperson said:
Hindsight is a powerful thing, but really there isn't much Tebow has done to justify this thought. I don't see how he has any more upside as a passer than Vick did coming out of college.
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I know college stats mean little but...Michael Vick: 332 Pass Attempts with a YPA of 9.88 and 21 TD vs. 12 INTTim Tebow: 602 Pass Attempts with a YPA of 9.37 and 51 TD vs. 9 INT (Final 2 years)Michael Vick was known for being a scrambler and having a rocket arm but little touch and questionable accuracy. Tebow has a good arm, runs (but not to the ability of Vick), and has shown very good accuracy.Tebow's arm passing wise is far, far ahead of Michael Vick when Vick was coming out of college.
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It would be impossible to know how to compare Vick and Tebow on college passing stats.VT offensively has always been painfully conservative, even when they've had great talent at WR. Urban Meyer made Alex Smith the #1 pick in the draft.It's hard to know what to make of Tebow's completion percentage. He completed, what, about 5 shuffle passes per game?Maybe Tebow can become a good passer in the NFL. None of us really know how that'll work out.However, I don't see much evidence to suggest that he'll be a better passer than Vick was and he certainly won't be the runner Vick was.
 
I'd love to see the Broncos grab Aaron Hernandez (Florida TE) in the 3rd to be able to run the Florida offense about 25% of the time.

With the rookie Thomas, Eddie Royal, Brandon Stokley and Jabbar Gaffney, the offense could be very effective.

 
From John Clayton at ESPN. I realize that Clayton is no Finless (and I'm sure he thanks the good lord for that every morning he wakes up):

2. What is Josh McDaniels doing? Tebow might be the most interesting selection of Day 1, but why Denver? After going 2-8 down the stretch in 2009, a bad start to the 2010 season (and a losing season) could put McDaniels' job in jeopardy. McDaniels inherited an offense in Denver that didn't need a lot of change. QB Jay Cutler was coming off a 4,500-yard season in 2008, and Brandon Marshall was a 100-catch receiver. Like Quinn, whom McDaniels picked up for virtually nothing, Tebow is a developmental quarterback. The question facing the Broncos' organization is whether McDaniels can earn enough time to succeed with developmental quarterbacks. Current Denver starter Kyle Orton may just have this year left at quarterback under these circumstances. McDaniels put together an old defense in his first year on the job, and it faded down the stretch. He's had to redo his defensive line and make upgrades at linebacker during this offseason. I'm not sure the Broncos have the luxury of developing Tebow under these circumstances.
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I know college stats mean little but...Michael Vick: 332 Pass Attempts with a YPA of 9.88 and 21 TD vs. 12 INTTim Tebow: 602 Pass Attempts with a YPA of 9.37 and 51 TD vs. 9 INT (Final 2 years)Michael Vick was known for being a scrambler and having a rocket arm but little touch and questionable accuracy. Tebow has a good arm, runs (but not to the ability of Vick), and has shown very good accuracy.Tebow's arm passing wise is far, far ahead of Michael Vick when Vick was coming out of college.
Click to expand...
It would be impossible to know how to compare Vick and Tebow on college passing stats.VT offensively has always been painfully conservative, even when they've had great talent at WR. Urban Meyer made Alex Smith the #1 pick in the draft.It's hard to know what to make of Tebow's completion percentage. He completed, what, about 5 shuffle passes per game?Maybe Tebow can become a good passer in the NFL. None of us really know how that'll work out.However, I don't see much evidence to suggest that he'll be a better passer than Vick was and he certainly won't be the runner Vick was.
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Fair enough but my issue is just the sheer number of pass attempts in general. It's one thing to throw 330 pass attempts in a 2 year span compared to 600 pass attempts. Aside from that total, Tebow displayed better accuracy and better decision making. Again, stats can't really be compared scheme to scheme but accuracy and decision making has to count for something regardless of the offense being run.QB A: Throws 600 pass attempts for 60% and has an INT rate of 2.0%.QB B: Throws 600 pass attempts for 50% and has an INT rate of 3.5%.QB C: Throws 300 pass attempts for 70% and has an INT rate of 0.5%.Most would probably call QB A better than QB B in terms of accuracy and decision making. QB C, despite far fewer pass attempts, also showed better accuracy and decision making. Some of that can be helped by short routes and dump of passes but it's up to the QB to run the plays as designed and be efficient running those plays.Also Alex Smith has dealt with constant turnover in San Francisco's coaching staff so I don't see how that's really relevant to Tebow as a QB coming out of college.
 
Since Tebow is now Denver's reality I hope for their sake the plan for him is to develope him to be a conventional Q.B. only. The talk of H-Back or Wild Horses Q.B. to me means that he would be stunting his developement to where he needs to get. When you play three positions you don't really play any. I hope the plan is for focus.

 
pollardsvision said:
DawnBTVS said:
hxperson said:
Hindsight is a powerful thing, but really there isn't much Tebow has done to justify this thought. I don't see how he has any more upside as a passer than Vick did coming out of college.
Click to expand...
I know college stats mean little but...Michael Vick: 332 Pass Attempts with a YPA of 9.88 and 21 TD vs. 12 INT

Tim Tebow: 602 Pass Attempts with a YPA of 9.37 and 51 TD vs. 9 INT (Final 2 years)

Michael Vick was known for being a scrambler and having a rocket arm but little touch and questionable accuracy. Tebow has a good arm, runs (but not to the ability of Vick), and has shown very good accuracy.

Tebow's arm passing wise is far, far ahead of Michael Vick when Vick was coming out of college.
Click to expand...
It would be impossible to know how to compare Vick and Tebow on college passing stats.VT offensively has always been painfully conservative, even when they've had great talent at WR.

Urban Meyer made Alex Smith the #1 pick in the draft.

It's hard to know what to make of Tebow's completion percentage. He completed, what, about 5 shuffle passes per game?

Maybe Tebow can become a good passer in the NFL. None of us really know how that'll work out.

However, I don't see much evidence to suggest that he'll be a better passer than Vick was and he certainly won't be the runner Vick was.
Click to expand...
I disagree. Quite a few people have realized exactly how it's going to work out. To sum it up in one word: Poorly.
 
awesomeness said:
pollardsvision said:
DawnBTVS said:
hxperson said:
Hindsight is a powerful thing, but really there isn't much Tebow has done to justify this thought. I don't see how he has any more upside as a passer than Vick did coming out of college.
Click to expand...
I know college stats mean little but...Michael Vick: 332 Pass Attempts with a YPA of 9.88 and 21 TD vs. 12 INT

Tim Tebow: 602 Pass Attempts with a YPA of 9.37 and 51 TD vs. 9 INT (Final 2 years)

Michael Vick was known for being a scrambler and having a rocket arm but little touch and questionable accuracy. Tebow has a good arm, runs (but not to the ability of Vick), and has shown very good accuracy.

Tebow's arm passing wise is far, far ahead of Michael Vick when Vick was coming out of college.
Click to expand...
It would be impossible to know how to compare Vick and Tebow on college passing stats.VT offensively has always been painfully conservative, even when they've had great talent at WR.

Urban Meyer made Alex Smith the #1 pick in the draft.

It's hard to know what to make of Tebow's completion percentage. He completed, what, about 5 shuffle passes per game?

Maybe Tebow can become a good passer in the NFL. None of us really know how that'll work out.

However, I don't see much evidence to suggest that he'll be a better passer than Vick was and he certainly won't be the runner Vick was.
Click to expand...
I disagree. Quite a few people have realized exactly how it's going to work out. To sum it up in one word: Poorly.
Click to expand...
Well, I think this is settled. Lock it up.
 
phthalatemagic said:
awesomeness said:
pollardsvision said:
DawnBTVS said:
hxperson said:
Hindsight is a powerful thing, but really there isn't much Tebow has done to justify this thought. I don't see how he has any more upside as a passer than Vick did coming out of college.
Click to expand...
I know college stats mean little but...Michael Vick: 332 Pass Attempts with a YPA of 9.88 and 21 TD vs. 12 INT

Tim Tebow: 602 Pass Attempts with a YPA of 9.37 and 51 TD vs. 9 INT (Final 2 years)

Michael Vick was known for being a scrambler and having a rocket arm but little touch and questionable accuracy. Tebow has a good arm, runs (but not to the ability of Vick), and has shown very good accuracy.

Tebow's arm passing wise is far, far ahead of Michael Vick when Vick was coming out of college.
Click to expand...
It would be impossible to know how to compare Vick and Tebow on college passing stats.VT offensively has always been painfully conservative, even when they've had great talent at WR.

Urban Meyer made Alex Smith the #1 pick in the draft.

It's hard to know what to make of Tebow's completion percentage. He completed, what, about 5 shuffle passes per game?

Maybe Tebow can become a good passer in the NFL. None of us really know how that'll work out.

However, I don't see much evidence to suggest that he'll be a better passer than Vick was and he certainly won't be the runner Vick was.
Click to expand...
I disagree. Quite a few people have realized exactly how it's going to work out. To sum it up in one word: Poorly.
Click to expand...
Well, I think this is settled. Lock it up.
Click to expand...
:hot:
 
pollardsvision said:
It's hard to know what to make of Tebow's completion percentage. He completed, what, about 5 shuffle passes per game?
Click to expand...
More like 1-3 per game. And how is that any different than most QBs throwing 1-3 screen passes per game? I don't think Florida ran a single screen pass last year, so those cancel each other out at worst. And back when he had Mullen as his coordinator and they did run screens, they almost never ran the shovel pass.If anything, one of Florida's faults this year in the passing game was that Adazzio didn't utilize the short passing game enough and tried to pick up a 1st down every single time they dropped back to pass, as opposed to previous years where they called more drags and stuff in that 5 yard range.
 
GordonGekko said:
McDaniel made his real mark as a potential head coach with what he did with Matt Cassell ( 7th rounder, no starts since high school, three years behind Brady)

As I've said before, what he did with Brady got his name out there, what he did with Cassell got him respect.

Without what happened with Cassell, you could argue that maybe he doesn't get the Broncos job. Anyone can make something out of something, it's a real talent to make something out of nothing. Not sure if McDaniel can do that with other positions, but his career in Denver now lives and dies with Tebow.

Tebow is evidence of a player who did everything humanly possible to make himself the best draft prospect that he could be. I think Denver is actually an ideal situation for him.

I think Bowlen gives McDaniel this season plus two more to see what he can do. Picking the wrong coach is detrimental to a franchise. Keep turning over coaches and having to turn over the roster accordingly is also detrimental to a franchise. The calls to dump McDaniel are a bit premature IMHO. This was a crippled team before McDaniel got there. I think McDaniel did not help himself last season with a risky draft though.
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It also takes a rare talent to make nothing out of something.And his name is McDaniels.

 
hxperson said:
footballsavvy said:
I suspect it will work out for Denver better than most people think. Obviously every QB is a project, but you hope to have as little work to do as possible as a coach. I could be "project QB" in the NFL - but my chances at success would be somewhere below .000000001

Tebow may not display mechanics that are anywhere close to where they need to be. However, what he does do is deliver the football to where it needs to go to make a play happen with frequency. He's also willing to be coached and has shown that he can learn relatviely quick due to his work ethic and humble attitiude. It also doesn't hurt that he his strong and and fast. Even if he can't make reads as good as Clausen or hasn't displayed the pure accuracy and mechanics that Bradford has - he can certainly make up for it to a degree by extending plays. And its not a stretch to think that he can be taught better mechanics (improving his accuracy) and learn to read defenses in a relatively short period of time (1 to 2 years). If that happens, you have a very complete package. He could be as dangerous as Vick outside of the pocket (not as fast, but a lot harder to bring down on contact), but have passing skills to go with it that are much better..... and obviously he is also a much better team leader than Vick.
Click to expand...
Hindsight is a powerful thing, but really there isn't much Tebow has done to justify this thought. I don't see how he has any more upside as a passer than Vick did coming out of college.
Click to expand...
He doesn't have more "upside as a passer". He has about the same. My point was that if Vick had ever developed into a decent passer, he would have been one of the best QB's in the league. Though I think Tebow has a bit more leeway than Vick because of his other intangibles (character, humility, etc).
 
thehornet said:
KnowledgeReignsSupreme said:
Finless said:
DevilDog919 said:
Some of the sharks :( So you threw a dart and it hit the bullseye, congratulations! Did you really have to start a thread about it?
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I'm not sure you know who I am around here. But I'm pretty sure I have no idea who you are.
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:lmao:
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no, actually he wasn't owned, fanboy.
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I guess I'll just blackdot this so we can revisit it in a few years when Tebow's a Pro-bowler. :lmao:
 
hxperson said:
footballsavvy said:
I suspect it will work out for Denver better than most people think. Obviously every QB is a project, but you hope to have as little work to do as possible as a coach. I could be "project QB" in the NFL - but my chances at success would be somewhere below .000000001

Tebow may not display mechanics that are anywhere close to where they need to be. However, what he does do is deliver the football to where it needs to go to make a play happen with frequency. He's also willing to be coached and has shown that he can learn relatviely quick due to his work ethic and humble attitiude. It also doesn't hurt that he his strong and and fast. Even if he can't make reads as good as Clausen or hasn't displayed the pure accuracy and mechanics that Bradford has - he can certainly make up for it to a degree by extending plays. And its not a stretch to think that he can be taught better mechanics (improving his accuracy) and learn to read defenses in a relatively short period of time (1 to 2 years). If that happens, you have a very complete package. He could be as dangerous as Vick outside of the pocket (not as fast, but a lot harder to bring down on contact), but have passing skills to go with it that are much better..... and obviously he is also a much better team leader than Vick.
Click to expand...
Hindsight is a powerful thing, but really there isn't much Tebow has done to justify this thought. I don't see how he has any more upside as a passer than Vick did coming out of college.
Click to expand...
I don't see how anyone can say this with a straight face. Vick got his college passing stats running around until guys got wide open like he was playing on a playground. Tebow got his dropping back and throwing the ball like every other QB in the league. Say what you want about the system, but the system can't thread those seam passes in between 3 defenders at key moments of the national championship game against Oklahoma.Bottom line, if you completely took away Tebow's running ability it would barely change his draft stock. If you took away Vick's running ability he would have gone undrafted.

 
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proninja said:
I'm pretty sure McDaniel didn't make this decision without checking with Finless first. Doubt him at your own risk, people.
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Hornet getting owned buy one of my "subscribers"Link

It happens....it takes a man to move on.

 
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Last edited by a moderator:
thehornet said:
Finless said:
proninja said:
I'm pretty sure McDaniel didn't make this decision without checking with Finless first. Doubt him at your own risk, people.
Click to expand...
Hornet getting owned buy one of my "subscribers"Link

It happens....it takes a man to move on.
Click to expand...
and? He was wrong on his prediction.and you look good here:

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...=357756&hl=

sure, ill move on.
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Had to go back 3 years? Finless may actually be better than advertised.
 
PizzaDeliveryGuy said:
thehornet said:
Finless said:
proninja said:
I'm pretty sure McDaniel didn't make this decision without checking with Finless first. Doubt him at your own risk, people.
Click to expand...
Hornet getting owned buy one of my "subscribers"Link

It happens....it takes a man to move on.
Click to expand...
and? He was wrong on his prediction.and you look good here:

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...=357756&hl=

sure, ill move on.
Click to expand...
Had to go back 3 years? Finless may actually be better than advertised.
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i went back as far as he did.
 
FreeBaGeL said:
I don't see how anyone can say this with a straight face. Vick got his college passing stats running around until guys got wide open like he was playing on a playground. Tebow got his dropping back and throwing the ball like every other QB in the league. Say what you want about the system, but the system can't thread those seam passes in between 3 defenders at key moments of the national championship game against Oklahoma.Bottom line, if you completely took away Tebow's running ability it would barely change his draft stock. If you took away Vick's running ability he would have gone undrafted.
Click to expand...
<_< Vick played weaker opponents, and was so silly fast it was like defenders were in molasses. Tebow definitely spent more time in the pocket, and wasn't running away from many defenders in the SEC.The problem and criticism Tebow faces is he was in a spread offense, running the option. He is a question mark. However, that's no more than any QB going into the NFL.The comedy is I don't think Tebow is less prepared than Vince Young was. I'd say he is far ahead, but the level of silly criticism of Tebow is just way over the top for an elite athlete and college player.
 
Sure Dez was obviously the more talented of wide receivers but for every Randy Moss there's a couple Charles Rogers' or a Roy Williams'. I think Tebow is a winner and he'll be a winner in Denver. Maybe not this year but they'll be special in a 2-3 years.

 
Finless said:
Sure Dez was obviously the more talented of wide receivers but for every Randy Moss there's a couple Charles Rogers' or a Roy Williams'. I think Tebow is a winner and he'll be a winner in Denver. Maybe not this year but they'll be special in a 2-3 years.
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Hmm...we just traded our Pro-Bowl WR because he was a immature diva with character issues....lets draft a WR in the first round with the same exact issues.Sounds like smart drafting to me.
 
ChargersOH said:
FreeBaGeL said:
I don't see how anyone can say this with a straight face. Vick got his college passing stats running around until guys got wide open like he was playing on a playground. Tebow got his dropping back and throwing the ball like every other QB in the league. Say what you want about the system, but the system can't thread those seam passes in between 3 defenders at key moments of the national championship game against Oklahoma.

Bottom line, if you completely took away Tebow's running ability it would barely change his draft stock. If you took away Vick's running ability he would have gone undrafted.
Click to expand...
:lmao: Vick played weaker opponents, and was so silly fast it was like defenders were in molasses. Tebow definitely spent more time in the pocket, and wasn't running away from many defenders in the SEC.

The problem and criticism Tebow faces is he was in a spread offense, running the option. He is a question mark. However, that's no more than any QB going into the NFL.

The comedy is I don't think Tebow is less prepared than Vince Young was. I'd say he is far ahead, but the level of silly criticism of Tebow is just way over the top for an elite athlete and college player.
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I don't get why people hold this against him. It's not like this is the Nebraska offenses of old where passes are trick plays where they start out running the option and then throw the ball. Yeah, there was the jump pass but that was what, 3 passes in his entire career?A typical passing play for Tebow was taking the snap, dropping back in the pocket, and throwing the ball. Just like anyone else. And he threw A LOT of passes this way. I don't have the numbers here, but I would imagine it was far more than most quarterbacks that are drafted. What does it matter that on running plays it was often Tebow running an HB dive rather than a running back? The passing plays were the same as anyone's.

Yes, it was the "spread", but Florida's offense is actually set up VERY similarly to New England's. Speedy deep threat on the outside, with quick little guys in the slot running routes underneath. It always makes me laugh when people compare Florida's offense to someone like Nebraska of the 90's. The offenses could not possibly be more different. The Florida offense has FAR more in common with New England's than it does Nebraska's.

 
thehornet said:
KnowledgeReignsSupreme said:
Finless said:
DevilDog919 said:
Some of the sharks :lmao: So you threw a dart and it hit the bullseye, congratulations! Did you really have to start a thread about it?
Click to expand...
I'm not sure you know who I am around here. But I'm pretty sure I have no idea who you are.
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:(
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no, actually he wasn't owned, fanboy.
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Pretty sure he would be owned even if Tebow was a monumental bust... Which he of course wont be.
 
I cannot wait to come back here in a year or two to feed crow to all the TT haters. It's just flat out ridiculous.

As a Raiders fan I was thrilled to see Cutler and Marshall go but was devastated when the Donks grabbed Tebow yesterday. Dude is a stud. And I don't at all look forward to him doing his thing for the Broncos for the next 10 years.

 
"We were excited, we were enthusiastic. There was passion. It was just intense, and it was ball, and it was juice. The juice level in that room was high, and it was awesome."

-Tim Tebow

article

:towelwave:

 
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Barry said:
If it wasn't for the bible and the Florida Gators, Tebow would be in a CFL training camp.
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:bs: dumbest.post.ever.so because he's religious he got into the NFL, had nothing to do with 2 championships,a heisman trophy,and being the greatest collegiate player of all time? you're a moron
 
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