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Tim Tebow - 8.17.21 Waived By Jacksonville (2 Viewers)

If it wasn't for the bible and the Florida Gators, Tebow would be in a CFL training camp.
:confused: dumbest.post.ever.so because he's religious he got into the NFL, had nothing to do with 2 championships,a heisman trophy,and being the greatest collegiate player of all time? you're a moron
No, not really. I for one don't think he deserves to be considered one of the great collegiate players, but that's neither here nor there. Let's look at what Tanner is saying in a little more detail:1. It's true that Tim Tebow was highly recruited and had his choice of a wide number of universities. But let's suppose he had not chosen Florida, and gone to any of a number of schools that did not compete for the National Championship. If this had happened, I am willing to bet he would not have won the Heisman Trophy. If you study the Heisman for the last 20 years or so, it has really moved away from being about the best player in college football to being more about the best team. For example, I would argue that Jake Locker in his freshman year at Washington performed better as QB than Tebow did the year he won the Heisman, and that Andrew Luck was a better QB last year; so was Tony Pike. None of them were invited to New York. Tebow's accolades are very much intertwined with the success of the Gators. Without that success, his notoriety is negated, and since he has trouble throwing the ball, I believe he would have been drafted much lower if at all.2. It's not that religious players get more attention on a regular basis. Obviously there are lots of religious players in college football and the NFL. But Tebow put himself out there from day 1, exposing his Christianity for the world to see. As a result, he is being cheered on in his career by thousands, perhaps millions of very religious born again Christians. I have seen their reaction to him myself; in the same way that they flocked to support the film "The Passion of the Christ", they are flocking to support Tim Tebow. Tebow has become, like that movie, the latest testament to their faith. I'm not saying he wanted this to happen or desired it, but somehow it has happened. So yes, I think these two factors greatly contributed to Tebow being drafted in the 1st round of the NFL. I truly believe that if Tebow played for a non-national champion, and was not greatly exposed for his religion as well, he might be a 5th or 6th round pick, or perhaps not drafted at all. Tanner is right.
 
No, not really. I for one don't think he deserves to be considered one of the great collegiate players, but that's neither here nor there. Let's look at what Tanner is saying in a little more detail:1. It's true that Tim Tebow was highly recruited and had his choice of a wide number of universities. But let's suppose he had not chosen Florida, and gone to any of a number of schools that did not compete for the National Championship. If this had happened, I am willing to bet he would not have won the Heisman Trophy. If you study the Heisman for the last 20 years or so, it has really moved away from being about the best player in college football to being more about the best team. For example, I would argue that Jake Locker in his freshman year at Washington performed better as QB than Tebow did the year he won the Heisman, and that Andrew Luck was a better QB last year; so was Tony Pike. None of them were invited to New York. Tebow's accolades are very much intertwined with the success of the Gators. Without that success, his notoriety is negated, and since he has trouble throwing the ball, I believe he would have been drafted much lower if at all.2. It's not that religious players get more attention on a regular basis. Obviously there are lots of religious players in college football and the NFL. But Tebow put himself out there from day 1, exposing his Christianity for the world to see. As a result, he is being cheered on in his career by thousands, perhaps millions of very religious born again Christians. I have seen their reaction to him myself; in the same way that they flocked to support the film "The Passion of the Christ", they are flocking to support Tim Tebow. Tebow has become, like that movie, the latest testament to their faith. I'm not saying he wanted this to happen or desired it, but somehow it has happened. So yes, I think these two factors greatly contributed to Tebow being drafted in the 1st round of the NFL. I truly believe that if Tebow played for a non-national champion, and was not greatly exposed for his religion as well, he might be a 5th or 6th round pick, or perhaps not drafted at all. Tanner is right.
For starters, if Tebow hadn't gone to Florida he would have gone to Alabama, so the success of his team likely wouldn't have changed much.But really, I don't see how anyone can take your post seriously with the comment about Locker performing better in his freshman year at Washington than Tebow did in his heisman year.Locker's freshman year:47.3% completion percentage, 2062 yards, 6.2ypa, 14td, 15int, 105.0 QB rating388yds rushing (3.5ypc), 7 TDTebow's heisman year (also his first year as a starter):67.8% completion percentage, 2895 yards, 9.2ypa, 32td, 6int, 172.5 QB rating (highest ever for a heisman winner)895yds rushing (4.3ypc), 23 TDI know stats aren't everything, but seriously what the hell?
 
No, not really. I for one don't think he deserves to be considered one of the great collegiate players, but that's neither here nor there. Let's look at what Tanner is saying in a little more detail:1. It's true that Tim Tebow was highly recruited and had his choice of a wide number of universities. But let's suppose he had not chosen Florida, and gone to any of a number of schools that did not compete for the National Championship. If this had happened, I am willing to bet he would not have won the Heisman Trophy. If you study the Heisman for the last 20 years or so, it has really moved away from being about the best player in college football to being more about the best team. For example, I would argue that Jake Locker in his freshman year at Washington performed better as QB than Tebow did the year he won the Heisman, and that Andrew Luck was a better QB last year; so was Tony Pike. None of them were invited to New York. Tebow's accolades are very much intertwined with the success of the Gators. Without that success, his notoriety is negated, and since he has trouble throwing the ball, I believe he would have been drafted much lower if at all.2. It's not that religious players get more attention on a regular basis. Obviously there are lots of religious players in college football and the NFL. But Tebow put himself out there from day 1, exposing his Christianity for the world to see. As a result, he is being cheered on in his career by thousands, perhaps millions of very religious born again Christians. I have seen their reaction to him myself; in the same way that they flocked to support the film "The Passion of the Christ", they are flocking to support Tim Tebow. Tebow has become, like that movie, the latest testament to their faith. I'm not saying he wanted this to happen or desired it, but somehow it has happened. So yes, I think these two factors greatly contributed to Tebow being drafted in the 1st round of the NFL. I truly believe that if Tebow played for a non-national champion, and was not greatly exposed for his religion as well, he might be a 5th or 6th round pick, or perhaps not drafted at all. Tanner is right.
For starters, if Tebow hadn't gone to Florida he would have gone to Alabama, so the success of his team likely wouldn't have changed much.But really, I don't see how anyone can take your post seriously with the comment about Locker performing better in his freshman year at Washington than Tebow did in his heisman year.Locker's freshman year:47.3% completion percentage, 2062 yards, 6.2ypa, 14td, 15int, 105.0 QB rating388yds rushing (3.5ypc), 7 TDTebow's heisman year (also his first year as a starter):67.8% completion percentage, 2895 yards, 9.2ypa, 32td, 6int, 172.5 QB rating (highest ever for a heisman winner)895yds rushing (4.3ypc), 23 TDI know stats aren't everything, but seriously what the hell?
You have to watch them. Put Tebow in Locker's place, with no offensive line, no running game, no receivers with any talent, and no defense so he's constantly behind. Then put Locker on Florida, with a great OLine, great running backs, great WRs, and a shut down defense. My argument is that Locker would perform better in both situations.
 
Folks are pretty fired up out in the Mile High.
Seems like they are confused. What's the plan?
Lets just say they didn't draft Tebow to play fullback.
So Tebow plays right away? Or do Orton and Quinn battle it out with Tebow as a project player? Should be interesting when every press conference turns into a Tebow Timetable. Orton's a pretty respected veteran, and now he's going to have to deal with the Tebow issue.Either Tebow is the guy, or he's one of three guys. And when you have three guys, you really don't have any.Just not seeing a clear cut plan here. Maybe McDaniels has it all figured out.
 
Folks are pretty fired up out in the Mile High.
Seems like they are confused. What's the plan?
Lets just say they didn't draft Tebow to play fullback.
So Tebow plays right away? Or do Orton and Quinn battle it out with Tebow as a project player? Should be interesting when every press conference turns into a Tebow Timetable. Orton's a pretty respected veteran, and now he's going to have to deal with the Tebow issue.Either Tebow is the guy, or he's one of three guys. And when you have three guys, you really don't have any.Just not seeing a clear cut plan here. Maybe McDaniels has it all figured out.
Love to see anything that has a quote from McDaniels saying Tebow will play day 1.... or that Orton will be competing for the job... seriously... Tebow is a developmental prospect, it's McDaniel's "tom Brady"
 
No, not really. I for one don't think he deserves to be considered one of the great collegiate players, but that's neither here nor there. Let's look at what Tanner is saying in a little more detail:

1. It's true that Tim Tebow was highly recruited and had his choice of a wide number of universities. But let's suppose he had not chosen Florida, and gone to any of a number of schools that did not compete for the National Championship. If this had happened, I am willing to bet he would not have won the Heisman Trophy. If you study the Heisman for the last 20 years or so, it has really moved away from being about the best player in college football to being more about the best team. For example, I would argue that Jake Locker in his freshman year at Washington performed better as QB than Tebow did the year he won the Heisman, and that Andrew Luck was a better QB last year; so was Tony Pike. None of them were invited to New York. Tebow's accolades are very much intertwined with the success of the Gators. Without that success, his notoriety is negated, and since he has trouble throwing the ball, I believe he would have been drafted much lower if at all.

2. It's not that religious players get more attention on a regular basis. Obviously there are lots of religious players in college football and the NFL. But Tebow put himself out there from day 1, exposing his Christianity for the world to see. As a result, he is being cheered on in his career by thousands, perhaps millions of very religious born again Christians. I have seen their reaction to him myself; in the same way that they flocked to support the film "The Passion of the Christ", they are flocking to support Tim Tebow. Tebow has become, like that movie, the latest testament to their faith. I'm not saying he wanted this to happen or desired it, but somehow it has happened.

So yes, I think these two factors greatly contributed to Tebow being drafted in the 1st round of the NFL. I truly believe that if Tebow played for a non-national champion, and was not greatly exposed for his religion as well, he might be a 5th or 6th round pick, or perhaps not drafted at all. Tanner is right.
For starters, if Tebow hadn't gone to Florida he would have gone to Alabama, so the success of his team likely wouldn't have changed much.But really, I don't see how anyone can take your post seriously with the comment about Locker performing better in his freshman year at Washington than Tebow did in his heisman year.

Locker's freshman year:

47.3% completion percentage, 2062 yards, 6.2ypa, 14td, 15int, 105.0 QB rating

388yds rushing (3.5ypc), 7 TD

Tebow's heisman year (also his first year as a starter):

67.8% completion percentage, 2895 yards, 9.2ypa, 32td, 6int, 172.5 QB rating (highest ever for a heisman winner)

895yds rushing (4.3ypc), 23 TD

I know stats aren't everything, but seriously what the hell?
You have to watch them. Put Tebow in Locker's place, with no offensive line, no running game, no receivers with any talent, and no defense so he's constantly behind. Then put Locker on Florida, with a great OLine, great running backs, great WRs, and a shut down defense. My argument is that Locker would perform better in both situations.
There's no doubt Tebow played with superior talent around him. But you were strictly comparing Locker's freshman year to Tebow's heisman year and to claim that any amount of surrounding talent would make THAT big of a difference is crazy.Besides, you're definitely falling into that trap of just assuming that because the Gators had the name Florida next to them they were great in all those positions. You probably don't realize that in Tebow's heisman year Florida's defense and offensive line were likely much worse than Washington's. Their defense was the worst I've ever seen out of a Gator team and that includes the pre-Spurrier years. The offensive line was the dumbest group of 5 guys you could find to put together. If you need proof, just watch the LSU or Michigan games where simple stunts or 1-man blitzes would consistently lead to a guy coming through unblocked and Tebow having to get rid of the ball immediately or run for his life. As much credit as Roethlisberger gets for his ability to play with a poor O-line, Tebow's ability to do so that year was really overlooked.

Granted, he had great WRs that year. But during his senior year, he did not. Florida's WRs were horrible in 2009. Their already weak WR corps was made truly pathetic when two starters went down with season ending injuries before the season even began, leaving a bunch of guys who were considered poor depth to actually be the starters. It got to the point where they were starting running backs at WR, and they had some very key drops this year. Hernandez at TE was the only reliable player, and even he had a huge drop in the Alabama game.

Tebow did play with all those things you mentioned, just not at the same time. I get that Tebow had better talent around him, but you're acting like this was the 2007 Patriots here. It wasn't, that offense had major holes in it every single year.

 
Folks are pretty fired up out in the Mile High.
Seems like they are confused. What's the plan?
Lets just say they didn't draft Tebow to play fullback.
So Tebow plays right away? Or do Orton and Quinn battle it out with Tebow as a project player? Should be interesting when every press conference turns into a Tebow Timetable. Orton's a pretty respected veteran, and now he's going to have to deal with the Tebow issue.Either Tebow is the guy, or he's one of three guys. And when you have three guys, you really don't have any.Just not seeing a clear cut plan here. Maybe McDaniels has it all figured out.
Love to see anything that has a quote from McDaniels saying Tebow will play day 1.... or that Orton will be competing for the job... seriously... Tebow is a developmental prospect, it's McDaniel's "tom Brady"
That's what I'm asking. Notice the question marks? That means someone is asking a question. I was asking Finless because he seems to have a handle on the situation and I'm curious (as many are) as to how this plays out.Since I have to read between the lines in this response, are you saying that Orton has the starting job straight away, no competition? Does that mean he'll have the job all year? What's the timetable for Tebow? Year 2? How does Quinn fit in and why did they trade for him? Again, what's the plan?My point is, as I stated above but obviously it was missed, that there is a confusing situation at QB in Denver now. I would like to understand their plan. If you have some real insight into their plan at QB, I'm listening.
 
Besides, you're definitely falling into that trap of just assuming that because the Gators had the name Florida next to them they were great in all those positions. You probably don't realize that in Tebow's heisman year Florida's defense and offensive line were likely much worse than Washington's. Their defense was the worst I've ever seen out of a Gator team and that includes the pre-Spurrier years. The offensive line was the dumbest group of 5 guys you could find to put together. If you need proof, just watch the LSU or Michigan games where simple stunts or 1-man blitzes would consistently lead to a guy coming through unblocked and Tebow having to get rid of the ball immediately or run for his life. As much credit as Roethlisberger gets for his ability to play with a poor O-line, Tebow's ability to do so that year was really overlooked.

Granted, he had great WRs that year. But during his senior year, he did not. Florida's WRs were horrible in 2009. Their already weak WR corps was made truly pathetic when two starters went down with season ending injuries before the season even began, leaving a bunch of guys who were considered poor depth to actually be the starters. It got to the point where they were starting running backs at WR, and they had some very key drops this year. Hernandez at TE was the only reliable player, and even he had a huge drop in the Alabama game.

Tebow did play with all those things you mentioned, just not at the same time. I get that Tebow had better talent around him, but you're acting like this was the 2007 Patriots here. It wasn't, that offense had major holes in it every single year.
I know that people like to criticize their own team, but this is crazy. I don't care how many supposed holes the Gators had on their offensive and defensive lines, you're talking about a whole different talent level here.
 
No, not really. I for one don't think he deserves to be considered one of the great collegiate players, but that's neither here nor there. Let's look at what Tanner is saying in a little more detail:1. It's true that Tim Tebow was highly recruited and had his choice of a wide number of universities. But let's suppose he had not chosen Florida, and gone to any of a number of schools that did not compete for the National Championship. If this had happened, I am willing to bet he would not have won the Heisman Trophy. If you study the Heisman for the last 20 years or so, it has really moved away from being about the best player in college football to being more about the best team. For example, I would argue that Jake Locker in his freshman year at Washington performed better as QB than Tebow did the year he won the Heisman, and that Andrew Luck was a better QB last year; so was Tony Pike. None of them were invited to New York. Tebow's accolades are very much intertwined with the success of the Gators. Without that success, his notoriety is negated, and since he has trouble throwing the ball, I believe he would have been drafted much lower if at all.2. It's not that religious players get more attention on a regular basis. Obviously there are lots of religious players in college football and the NFL. But Tebow put himself out there from day 1, exposing his Christianity for the world to see. As a result, he is being cheered on in his career by thousands, perhaps millions of very religious born again Christians. I have seen their reaction to him myself; in the same way that they flocked to support the film "The Passion of the Christ", they are flocking to support Tim Tebow. Tebow has become, like that movie, the latest testament to their faith. I'm not saying he wanted this to happen or desired it, but somehow it has happened. So yes, I think these two factors greatly contributed to Tebow being drafted in the 1st round of the NFL. I truly believe that if Tebow played for a non-national champion, and was not greatly exposed for his religion as well, he might be a 5th or 6th round pick, or perhaps not drafted at all. Tanner is right.
For starters, if Tebow hadn't gone to Florida he would have gone to Alabama, so the success of his team likely wouldn't have changed much.But really, I don't see how anyone can take your post seriously with the comment about Locker performing better in his freshman year at Washington than Tebow did in his heisman year.Locker's freshman year:47.3% completion percentage, 2062 yards, 6.2ypa, 14td, 15int, 105.0 QB rating388yds rushing (3.5ypc), 7 TDTebow's heisman year (also his first year as a starter):67.8% completion percentage, 2895 yards, 9.2ypa, 32td, 6int, 172.5 QB rating (highest ever for a heisman winner)895yds rushing (4.3ypc), 23 TDI know stats aren't everything, but seriously what the hell?
You have to watch them. Put Tebow in Locker's place, with no offensive line, no running game, no receivers with any talent, and no defense so he's constantly behind. Then put Locker on Florida, with a great OLine, great running backs, great WRs, and a shut down defense. My argument is that Locker would perform better in both situations.
Tebow's pro potential is obviously very much in doubt - I've seen every game the guy ever played at UF, and there's serious stuff he needs to work on to have a chance to make it in the league. But none of the three guys you listed come close to what Tebow accomplished as a college player. You have to be kidding me to think that Tony Pike or Andrew Luck were better than Tebow.also, in 2007 Florida did have a solid OLine and great WRs. They did not have anything close to great RBs or a shut down defense. The defense lost 9 starters from '06, had about three upperclassmen in the two deep, and the line was so bad that Meyer moved true FR Mike Pouncey to DT from OL halfway through the year. Not only did he start, he was a friggin' upgrade. So when Tebow threw nearly 70% completions, more than doubled Locker's TDs and halved his INTs, it wasn't like he was doing it with the 2001 Miami Hurricanes surrounding him (and he didn't do it in the Pac-10 either). to your point #2, those fans didn't create Tebow's success, they're a byproduct of the extensive media coverage he got for being really good at high school/college football. I agree the religion stuff's hard to take sometimes, but I don't see much correlation between those type of fans and his draft position.
 
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One point of correlation between draft position and fans is that Denver-Colorado Springs form probably the most conservative religious center in the West, if not in the entire country. Selecting TT certainly strengthened support from a fan base faltering under the Cutler/Marshall debacles - although I am hoping that was more fortuitous coincidense than motivation for the pick.

Either way, Tebow will give us as many poolers self-congratulating and as many seeking holes to climb into a couple of years down the road as we have now over the McFadden-to-be-best-rookie-RB-ever debates in '08.

 
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timschochet said:
FreeBaGeL said:
Besides, you're definitely falling into that trap of just assuming that because the Gators had the name Florida next to them they were great in all those positions. You probably don't realize that in Tebow's heisman year Florida's defense and offensive line were likely much worse than Washington's. Their defense was the worst I've ever seen out of a Gator team and that includes the pre-Spurrier years. The offensive line was the dumbest group of 5 guys you could find to put together. If you need proof, just watch the LSU or Michigan games where simple stunts or 1-man blitzes would consistently lead to a guy coming through unblocked and Tebow having to get rid of the ball immediately or run for his life. As much credit as Roethlisberger gets for his ability to play with a poor O-line, Tebow's ability to do so that year was really overlooked.

Granted, he had great WRs that year. But during his senior year, he did not. Florida's WRs were horrible in 2009. Their already weak WR corps was made truly pathetic when two starters went down with season ending injuries before the season even began, leaving a bunch of guys who were considered poor depth to actually be the starters. It got to the point where they were starting running backs at WR, and they had some very key drops this year. Hernandez at TE was the only reliable player, and even he had a huge drop in the Alabama game.

Tebow did play with all those things you mentioned, just not at the same time. I get that Tebow had better talent around him, but you're acting like this was the 2007 Patriots here. It wasn't, that offense had major holes in it every single year.
I know that people like to criticize their own team, but this is crazy. I don't care how many supposed holes the Gators had on their offensive and defensive lines, you're talking about a whole different talent level here.
Crazy is suggesting that Locker was better as a freshman than Tebow was as a sophomore. I don't care about the talent advantage Tebow might have had, there isn't any talent advantage in all of college football that could account for such a radical difference in statistics. Your position is wholly untenable. Florida had one of the greatest offenses in college football history despite having a mediocre offensive line and dreck at RB. Tim Tebow rushed for more TDs than any of the great RBs in SEC history (including names like Herschel Walker, Shaun Alexander, and Emmitt Smith). Are you saying that none of those great RBs in SEC history ever played with a talent advantage? Tim Tebow had the highest passer rating of any Heisman winner in history. Are you saying none of those Heisman-winning QBs ever played with a talent advantage as great as Tebow's? Tebow finished with the second-highest passer rating in Div1A history. Has no other QB in major college football ever had a talent advantage as big as Tim Tebow's? Like I said, your position is simply untenable.As for Jake Locker... do you mean to imply that he's the only QB who ever operated with a talent disadvantage? Jay Cutler's talent disadvantage was WAY more severe than Jake Locker's, but his performance still blew Locker's out of the water. Your claim comes off as nothing more than sensationalism and mindless "hating".

 
timschochet said:
FreeBaGeL said:
Besides, you're definitely falling into that trap of just assuming that because the Gators had the name Florida next to them they were great in all those positions. You probably don't realize that in Tebow's heisman year Florida's defense and offensive line were likely much worse than Washington's. Their defense was the worst I've ever seen out of a Gator team and that includes the pre-Spurrier years. The offensive line was the dumbest group of 5 guys you could find to put together. If you need proof, just watch the LSU or Michigan games where simple stunts or 1-man blitzes would consistently lead to a guy coming through unblocked and Tebow having to get rid of the ball immediately or run for his life. As much credit as Roethlisberger gets for his ability to play with a poor O-line, Tebow's ability to do so that year was really overlooked.

Granted, he had great WRs that year. But during his senior year, he did not. Florida's WRs were horrible in 2009. Their already weak WR corps was made truly pathetic when two starters went down with season ending injuries before the season even began, leaving a bunch of guys who were considered poor depth to actually be the starters. It got to the point where they were starting running backs at WR, and they had some very key drops this year. Hernandez at TE was the only reliable player, and even he had a huge drop in the Alabama game.

Tebow did play with all those things you mentioned, just not at the same time. I get that Tebow had better talent around him, but you're acting like this was the 2007 Patriots here. It wasn't, that offense had major holes in it every single year.
I know that people like to criticize their own team, but this is crazy. I don't care how many supposed holes the Gators had on their offensive and defensive lines, you're talking about a whole different talent level here.
Crazy is suggesting that Locker was better as a freshman than Tebow was as a sophomore. I don't care about the talent advantage Tebow might have had, there isn't any talent advantage in all of college football that could account for such a radical difference in statistics. Your position is wholly untenable. Florida had one of the greatest offenses in college football history despite having a mediocre offensive line and dreck at RB. Tim Tebow rushed for more TDs than any of the great RBs in SEC history (including names like Herschel Walker, Shaun Alexander, and Emmitt Smith). Are you saying that none of those great RBs in SEC history ever played with a talent advantage? Tim Tebow had the highest passer rating of any Heisman winner in history. Are you saying none of those Heisman-winning QBs ever played with a talent advantage as great as Tebow's? Tebow finished with the second-highest passer rating in Div1A history. Has no other QB in major college football ever had a talent advantage as big as Tim Tebow's? Like I said, your position is simply untenable.As for Jake Locker... do you mean to imply that he's the only QB who ever operated with a talent disadvantage? Jay Cutler's talent disadvantage was WAY more severe than Jake Locker's, but his performance still blew Locker's out of the water. Your claim comes off as nothing more than sensationalism and mindless "hating".
;)
 
Grace Under Pressure said:
So Tebow plays right away? Or do Orton and Quinn battle it out with Tebow as a project player? Should be interesting when every press conference turns into a Tebow Timetable. Orton's a pretty respected veteran, and now he's going to have to deal with the Tebow issue.Either Tebow is the guy, or he's one of three guys. And when you have three guys, you really don't have any.Just not seeing a clear cut plan here. Maybe McDaniels has it all figured out.
I see your point, but I disagree with the "when you have three guys, you really don't have any." It seems to me that the Broncos have a veteran they can rely on to start before giving up the job to the younger player, at which point the vet stays on as a backup/insurance for a year or two. Worked for Collins/VY, Palmer/Kitna, Warner/Leinart. I don't think Tebow is "the guy", not by a long shot. But the Broncos have a solid-steady QB as starter. They also have two young QBs that are very different but inarguably have (or at least once had) some real talent. If either Tebow or Quinn develops in to a great QB, then the Broncos offseason moves at the position will look good. If BOTH develop in to great QBs, then the Broncos will be in a really good spot in a couple years. If the last 5 years have shown a trend towards teams wanting 2-3 good running backs on the roster, I think the next 2-3 years will trend towards teams wanting 2 or even 3 starting caliber QBs on the roster. I think the Broncos drafting of Tebow was an interesting pick. I think the Broncos drafting of Tebow after also adding a raw-talent in Quinn was very savvy.
 
Regardless of who wins the starting QB position in Denver this year, I'm guessing Tebow will make 3 first downs and 1 TD in his first game in Jax on September 12th. His 3 first downs will be a result of a similar type offense that Florida runs which is a multi-purpose option of:

1) TE in short crossing pattern with 2nd TE blocking (or shovel pass to TE behind the line)

2) FB option

3) HB option

4) short WR option

5) Tebow off tackle

The new Denver offense will be able to take advantage of very good WRs, good RBs and a very strong and determined QB in short yardage situations.

The TD will be similar with the option of the QB jump pass to the TE or a roll out option to the WR.

Love him or hate him, Tebow presents matchup problems for a defense in short situations much like Ronnie Brown running the wildcat in Miami. Tebow may not be the fantasy football leader in 2010 but the point of an NFL game is to win, not to rack up statistics for FFL owners.

 
Grace Under Pressure said:
So Tebow plays right away? Or do Orton and Quinn battle it out with Tebow as a project player? Should be interesting when every press conference turns into a Tebow Timetable. Orton's a pretty respected veteran, and now he's going to have to deal with the Tebow issue.

Either Tebow is the guy, or he's one of three guys. And when you have three guys, you really don't have any.

Just not seeing a clear cut plan here. Maybe McDaniels has it all figured out.
I see your point, but I disagree with the "when you have three guys, you really don't have any." It seems to me that the Broncos have a veteran they can rely on to start before giving up the job to the younger player, at which point the vet stays on as a backup/insurance for a year or two. Worked for Collins/VY, Palmer/Kitna, Warner/Leinart. I don't think Tebow is "the guy", not by a long shot. But the Broncos have a solid-steady QB as starter. They also have two young QBs that are very different but inarguably have (or at least once had) some real talent. If either Tebow or Quinn develops in to a great QB, then the Broncos offseason moves at the position will look good. If BOTH develop in to great QBs, then the Broncos will be in a really good spot in a couple years.

If the last 5 years have shown a trend towards teams wanting 2-3 good running backs on the roster, I think the next 2-3 years will trend towards teams wanting 2 or even 3 starting caliber QBs on the roster. I think the Broncos drafting of Tebow was an interesting pick. I think the Broncos drafting of Tebow after also adding a raw-talent in Quinn was very savvy.
I don't think there's any chance Orton remains a Bronco beyond this season.
 
from Peter King's Tuesday column:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writ...lbag/index.html

I've thought all along that Tim Tebow would need a redshirt year, but two things now tell me I might be wrong.

First, Denver trading the 40th, 70th and 114th picks in a power draft to pick Tebow is a powerful statement. Check out the draft trade chart that every team uses and you'll see how much Denver wanted to make sure it wasn't leapfrogged in the Tebow derby. The 25th pick is worth 720 points on the chart every team in the league uses -- some more religiously than others. The 43rd pick is worth 470, the 70th worth 240, and the 114th worth 66. That totals 776. The Broncos paid 56 more points than were necessary by the chart -- equivalent to the 199th overall pick, a late fourth-rounder -- to get Tebow. Denver, obviously, wanted to make the deal badly enough to ratchet up the compensation.

Second, and most importantly, I remember something Broncos head coach Josh McDaniels said to me over the weekend when we discussed the Tebow pick. We weren't discussing playing time, or his role, or anything at the time other than why he was smitten with the guy more than many of his peers on other NFL teams.

"When I went to Gainesville Monday to work him out,'' McDaniels said, referring to his hush-hush trip to spend the day with Tebow, "we spent about seven hours together. We went over a lot of things. Now, understand that our offense is pretty complicated, and the terminology and the scheme is totally different from what he did at Florida. But about midway through my time there, we're going through plays, and he starts using our terminology. He's so smart about football that he was able to begin to speak my language and talk apples to apples. He'd already translated what he knew of our scheme into my words. That's something that carried a lot of weight with me.''

McDaniels also said: "The football traits he has is the stuff you die for.''

That tells me McDaniels will find something this year for Tebow to do. I don't know what it is. But last year, I don't think we saw everything McDaniels had to offer in terms of offensive play-calling. There's a lot inside him I think he's waiting to script and put in the hands of some offensive talent he mined and developed.

I think DeMaryius Thomas isn't the receiver Dez Bryant is, but he's a guy the Broncos will sleep better at night having, and he'll step in for Brandon Marshall. Can he be Marshall? I doubt he'll be the impact player, but he'll have the chance. The third-round pick, Minnesota wideout Eric Decker, is intriguing because of his size (6-foot-2, 214); he's the kind of guy who should be able to catch fades with good matchups on shorter corners.

McDaniels made it clear to me the best quarterback will start. He said Kyle Orton is the incumbent, and the starter, today. In camp, who knows? Maybe Brady Quinn lights it up, or maybe Tebow comes along faster than everybody thinks. But the fact Tebow already has a head-start on knowing the offense, and was peeved he had to leave Denver over the weekend to go back home (NFL rules don't permit rookie to be at their team's facilities, other than for a rookie mini-camp, until their class graduates in the spring) is a sign he might come along quicker in the mental part of the game than many draftees would.

I wouldn't be surprised if McDaniels invented some sort of red zone or goal line package for Tebow. Could it be the kind of draw/jump-pass thing Tebow did with the Gators? Maybe. But something to get Tebow on the field a few snaps a game if he doesn't win the job, just to throw a changeup at the opposition. Now, this would be interesting for team chemistry, because whoever wins the starting job (I assume Orton) will have to swallow hard to be OK with getting yanked a couple of times a game for Tebow. But McDaniels is sure to preach the all-for-one, one-for-all team-think attitude in OTAs this spring and training camp this summer, and if the quarterbacks don't buy in, they'll move on.

McDaniels spoke over the weekend about the passion he feels for his job, and how Tebow's a match for that too.

"I love this game so much,'' McDaniels said. "I would die to have 53 guys here who love it as much as I do. I'm looking to find the right group of guys to accept our one singular goal -- to win. I think Tim fits in with that. There're going to be doubts about him. Great doubts -- and I understand that. Some people don't think he has the natural traits of a great quarterback. Here's what I think: Do Jim Furyk and Tiger Woods swing the club the same way, hit irons the same way? No. But they both win tournaments. There're different ways to throw, different mechanics, and you can still get the job done.''

McDaniels has cast his lot with Tebow. He'll sink or swim, over the next three years with him. But if he sinks, he'll be sinking with a kid he believes in. I hear it in McDaniels' voice: This is his guy. Let the training begin. It's going to be fun to watch.

 
Grace Under Pressure said:
So Tebow plays right away? Or do Orton and Quinn battle it out with Tebow as a project player? Should be interesting when every press conference turns into a Tebow Timetable. Orton's a pretty respected veteran, and now he's going to have to deal with the Tebow issue.

Either Tebow is the guy, or he's one of three guys. And when you have three guys, you really don't have any.

Just not seeing a clear cut plan here. Maybe McDaniels has it all figured out.
I see your point, but I disagree with the "when you have three guys, you really don't have any." It seems to me that the Broncos have a veteran they can rely on to start before giving up the job to the younger player, at which point the vet stays on as a backup/insurance for a year or two. Worked for Collins/VY, Palmer/Kitna, Warner/Leinart. I don't think Tebow is "the guy", not by a long shot. But the Broncos have a solid-steady QB as starter. They also have two young QBs that are very different but inarguably have (or at least once had) some real talent. If either Tebow or Quinn develops in to a great QB, then the Broncos offseason moves at the position will look good. If BOTH develop in to great QBs, then the Broncos will be in a really good spot in a couple years.

If the last 5 years have shown a trend towards teams wanting 2-3 good running backs on the roster, I think the next 2-3 years will trend towards teams wanting 2 or even 3 starting caliber QBs on the roster. I think the Broncos drafting of Tebow was an interesting pick. I think the Broncos drafting of Tebow after also adding a raw-talent in Quinn was very savvy.
Some nice points here. I definitely agree the Broncos drafting Tebow was an interesting pick, to say the least. And they got Quinn for basically nothing, so it's hard to fault that move. But it still doesn't appear these moves were all put together with one plan in mind. From what I gather it could look something like this:Year One: Start Orton, Quinn #2, Tebow #3. Perhaps sometime during the year Tebow passes Quinn on the depth chart.

Year Two: Cut Orton. Tebow #1, Quinn #2.

As far as multiple QB's are concerned. I agree that you need to have a capable, if not good, backup QB. But a big part of being a QB in the NFL is leadership. RB's can provide leadership but it's not necessary from that position. But QB's have to be a team leader. With that in mind, I don't see a lot of 1A/1B type situations developing at the QB spot. I think, in most cases, teams have to have their guy. There may be exceptions, but I don't see that trend becoming as pronounced at the QB spot as it has at the RB spot.

 
Grace Under Pressure said:
So Tebow plays right away? Or do Orton and Quinn battle it out with Tebow as a project player? Should be interesting when every press conference turns into a Tebow Timetable. Orton's a pretty respected veteran, and now he's going to have to deal with the Tebow issue.

Either Tebow is the guy, or he's one of three guys. And when you have three guys, you really don't have any.

Just not seeing a clear cut plan here. Maybe McDaniels has it all figured out.
I see your point, but I disagree with the "when you have three guys, you really don't have any." It seems to me that the Broncos have a veteran they can rely on to start before giving up the job to the younger player, at which point the vet stays on as a backup/insurance for a year or two. Worked for Collins/VY, Palmer/Kitna, Warner/Leinart. I don't think Tebow is "the guy", not by a long shot. But the Broncos have a solid-steady QB as starter. They also have two young QBs that are very different but inarguably have (or at least once had) some real talent. If either Tebow or Quinn develops in to a great QB, then the Broncos offseason moves at the position will look good. If BOTH develop in to great QBs, then the Broncos will be in a really good spot in a couple years.

If the last 5 years have shown a trend towards teams wanting 2-3 good running backs on the roster, I think the next 2-3 years will trend towards teams wanting 2 or even 3 starting caliber QBs on the roster. I think the Broncos drafting of Tebow was an interesting pick. I think the Broncos drafting of Tebow after also adding a raw-talent in Quinn was very savvy.
Some nice points here. I definitely agree the Broncos drafting Tebow was an interesting pick, to say the least. And they got Quinn for basically nothing, so it's hard to fault that move. But it still doesn't appear these moves were all put together with one plan in mind. From what I gather it could look something like this:Year One: Start Orton, Quinn #2, Tebow #3. Perhaps sometime during the year Tebow passes Quinn on the depth chart.

Year Two: Cut Orton. Tebow #1, Quinn #2.

As far as multiple QB's are concerned. I agree that you need to have a capable, if not good, backup QB. But a big part of being a QB in the NFL is leadership. RB's can provide leadership but it's not necessary from that position. But QB's have to be a team leader. With that in mind, I don't see a lot of 1A/1B type situations developing at the QB spot. I think, in most cases, teams have to have their guy. There may be exceptions, but I don't see that trend becoming as pronounced at the QB spot as it has at the RB spot.
Orton will be a UFA after 2010. No need to cut him, they can simply let him walk.
 
Grace Under Pressure said:
So Tebow plays right away? Or do Orton and Quinn battle it out with Tebow as a project player? Should be interesting when every press conference turns into a Tebow Timetable. Orton's a pretty respected veteran, and now he's going to have to deal with the Tebow issue.

Either Tebow is the guy, or he's one of three guys. And when you have three guys, you really don't have any.

Just not seeing a clear cut plan here. Maybe McDaniels has it all figured out.
I see your point, but I disagree with the "when you have three guys, you really don't have any." It seems to me that the Broncos have a veteran they can rely on to start before giving up the job to the younger player, at which point the vet stays on as a backup/insurance for a year or two. Worked for Collins/VY, Palmer/Kitna, Warner/Leinart. I don't think Tebow is "the guy", not by a long shot. But the Broncos have a solid-steady QB as starter. They also have two young QBs that are very different but inarguably have (or at least once had) some real talent. If either Tebow or Quinn develops in to a great QB, then the Broncos offseason moves at the position will look good. If BOTH develop in to great QBs, then the Broncos will be in a really good spot in a couple years.

If the last 5 years have shown a trend towards teams wanting 2-3 good running backs on the roster, I think the next 2-3 years will trend towards teams wanting 2 or even 3 starting caliber QBs on the roster. I think the Broncos drafting of Tebow was an interesting pick. I think the Broncos drafting of Tebow after also adding a raw-talent in Quinn was very savvy.
Some nice points here. I definitely agree the Broncos drafting Tebow was an interesting pick, to say the least. And they got Quinn for basically nothing, so it's hard to fault that move. But it still doesn't appear these moves were all put together with one plan in mind. From what I gather it could look something like this:Year One: Start Orton, Quinn #2, Tebow #3. Perhaps sometime during the year Tebow passes Quinn on the depth chart.

Year Two: Cut Orton. Tebow #1, Quinn #2.

As far as multiple QB's are concerned. I agree that you need to have a capable, if not good, backup QB. But a big part of being a QB in the NFL is leadership. RB's can provide leadership but it's not necessary from that position. But QB's have to be a team leader. With that in mind, I don't see a lot of 1A/1B type situations developing at the QB spot. I think, in most cases, teams have to have their guy. There may be exceptions, but I don't see that trend becoming as pronounced at the QB spot as it has at the RB spot.
Orton will be a UFA after 2010. No need to cut him, they can simply let him walk.
:shrug: That's a big factor in how this plays out. Intriguing.

 
Some nice points here. I definitely agree the Broncos drafting Tebow was an interesting pick, to say the least. And they got Quinn for basically nothing, so it's hard to fault that move. But it still doesn't appear these moves were all put together with one plan in mind. From what I gather it could look something like this:

Year One: Start Orton, Quinn #2, Tebow #3. Perhaps sometime during the year Tebow passes Quinn on the depth chart.

Year Two: Cut Orton. Tebow #1, Quinn #2.

As far as multiple QB's are concerned. I agree that you need to have a capable, if not good, backup QB. But a big part of being a QB in the NFL is leadership. RB's can provide leadership but it's not necessary from that position. But QB's have to be a team leader. With that in mind, I don't see a lot of 1A/1B type situations developing at the QB spot. I think, in most cases, teams have to have their guy. There may be exceptions, but I don't see that trend becoming as pronounced at the QB spot as it has at the RB spot.
I think, due to semantics, Tebow will be the #2 QB.The gameday rule is that if you dress 2 QBs, you can declare a 3rd QB as your "emergency QB". That player doesn't count to your 45 active players cap, but if you put him in, you can no longer use either your #1 or #2 QB. As a result, Denver might want to make Orton #1 and Tebow #2 so that they can put Tebow in on certain packages and have a set of "Tebow plays" that they use at will. If Orton gets hurt, they can either use Tebow for a series or two (if they think Orton will return), or else they can put in Quinn (which makes Tebow ineligible). That way, Quinn's technically the "backup", but Tebow's still the #2. The other alternative is to dress all 3 QBs on gameday, which is feasible, but which would put a numbers crunch at another position to get to the 45 player maximum.

I look at it kind of like teams with CoP backs. They have their 2 down back at #1, their 3rd down back at #2, and another 2 down back at #3. If the #1 back gets hurt, then the #3 back leapfrogs the #2 back on the depth chart and becomes the "starter". Except, instead of a CoP RB, Tebow is a CoP QB.

 
I cannot wait to come back here in a year or two to feed crow to all the TT haters. It's just flat out ridiculous.As a Raiders fan I was thrilled to see Cutler and Marshall go but was devastated when the Donks grabbed Tebow yesterday. Dude is a stud. And I don't at all look forward to him doing his thing for the Broncos for the next 10 years.
Will you come back to eat your crow if all of the "haters" are right.And by hater I guess you mean anyone realistic enough to know he has an uphill battle to make it in the NFL and being a "winner" is not going to be enough.
 
...If the last 5 years have shown a trend towards teams wanting 2-3 good running backs on the roster, I think the next 2-3 years will trend towards teams wanting 2 or even 3 starting caliber QBs on the roster. I think the Broncos drafting of Tebow was an interesting pick. I think the Broncos drafting of Tebow after also adding a raw-talent in Quinn was very savvy.
this is an interesting take, and probably deserves more discussion. with more teams playing with wildcat, I can definately envision teams developing packages for QB's with special skills... It's a natural evolution. I think the way it plays out in Denver will be similar to what Philly did w/ Vick last year: Quinn will be the primary back-up, but Tebow will see the field a few plays a game. This will involve him in the game planning, get him some experience, and take advantages of some of Tebow's specialized skill-set. Miami played around with this last year, I think Carolina will too (in addition to Philly).In 2011, depending on his progression, Tebow's role may expand to a starting QB, or he may continue in his specialized role. I think that he may have some good value in that role - not necessarily fantasy value, but certainly vlue to the team in terms of short yardage/red zone/3rd down/whatever. If that's all he ends up being long term, the pick won't end up being a waste. Certainly, it's tough to justify a 1st round pick for a roleplayer, but IMO definitely 2nd round is justified. I'd even say that Tebow would be worth a 1st round upgrade based on potential that he could end up being a starting caliber QB down the road. If Parcells found Pat White valuable enough to trade up and take in 2nd round, Tebow should easily be worth a first.INO, Tebow therefore presents more value this way than Clausen, McCoy, Bradford, etc - these guys will either be starting QB's, which would justify their pick, or they won't be. Guys like this don't have specialized skillsets that would make them valuable evven if ultimately they don't pan out as starter material.
 
Thing is, Tebow really isn't that great of an athlete and won't be a dynamic runner at the NFL level, so his long term prospects really hinge entirely on his throwing ability.

 
Thing is, Tebow really isn't that great of an athlete and won't be a dynamic runner at the NFL level, so his long term prospects really hinge entirely on his throwing ability.
:confused: He had an amazing combine performance and is a far superior athlete to Roethlisberger and others who make their living scrambling.The guy is stronger than linemen, has safety speed, and ran the shuttle drills quicker than most RBs. I'd love to know how you base your opinion he isn't a great athlete when pretty much everyone disagrees with you.The problem most have is he's too much athlete at times and not enough QB.
 
The guy is stronger than linemen, has safety speed, and ran the shuttle drills quicker than most RBs. I'd love to know how you base your opinion he isn't a great athlete when pretty much everyone disagrees with you.
Safety speed? Maybe a high school safety.Tebow is 236 pounds with a 4.71 forty time. At best his athleticism is comparable to that of a slow, undersized NFL TE. He will not be a dynamic runner against NFL defenses.
 
The guy is stronger than linemen, has safety speed, and ran the shuttle drills quicker than most RBs. I'd love to know how you base your opinion he isn't a great athlete when pretty much everyone disagrees with you.
Safety speed? Maybe a high school safety.Tebow is 236 pounds with a 4.71 forty time. At best his athleticism is comparable to that of a slow, undersized NFL TE. He will not be a dynamic runner against NFL defenses.
Wasn't his 3-cone and vertical ridiculous? I don't recall the specifics, but I thought I remembered people saying they were the best ever for a QB and among tops even among WRs and RBs.Tebow doesn't have elite top end speed. He's not going to break off those 50 yard TD runs like Vick did. But he does have very good agility and burst, which he doesn't get enough credit for, and which combined with his strength is plenty for picking up those solid chunks like Miami tries to get out of the wildcat (which is basically what Tebow did on his running plays in college).
 
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The guy is stronger than linemen, has safety speed, and ran the shuttle drills quicker than most RBs. I'd love to know how you base your opinion he isn't a great athlete when pretty much everyone disagrees with you.
Safety speed? Maybe a high school safety.Tebow is 236 pounds with a 4.71 forty time. At best his athleticism is comparable to that of a slow, undersized NFL TE. He will not be a dynamic runner against NFL defenses.
Wasn't his 3-cone and vertical ridiculous? I don't recall the specifics, but I thought I remembered people saying they were the best ever for a QB and among tops even among WRs and RBs.Tebow doesn't have elite top end speed. He's not going to break off those 50 yard TD runs like Vick did. But he does have very good agility and burst, which he doesn't get enough credit for, and which combined with his strength is plenty for picking up those solid chunks like Miami tries to get out of the wildcat (which is basically what Tebow did on his running plays in college).
9'7" broad jump, 38.5" vert, 6.66 sec (ironic number) 3 cone.Pretty darn good for a QB, the broad jump is average for a WR and RB, the vert and cone drill would be very good.
 
Thing is, Tebow really isn't that great of an athlete and won't be a dynamic runner at the NFL level, so his long term prospects really hinge entirely on his throwing ability.
You want to say he's not an "elite" athlete, then maybe. But to say he "isn't that great" just has little merit.

 
Thing is, Tebow really isn't that great of an athlete and won't be a dynamic runner at the NFL level, so his long term prospects really hinge entirely on his throwing ability.
You want to say he's not an "elite" athlete, then maybe. But to say he "isn't that great" just has little merit.
Great is a relative term. Is he a great athlete compared to the average 23 year old guy? Sure.Is he Vince Young or Mike Vick? Not even close.

Tebow might succeed as a pro QB, but it won't have much to do with his wheels.

People really overrate the "slash" aspect when they talk about QB prospects who had some success running the ball in college. That stuff generally just doesn't work against the insane speed/strength of pro defenses. His fate will hinge entirely on his passing.

 
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Thing is, Tebow really isn't that great of an athlete and won't be a dynamic runner at the NFL level, so his long term prospects really hinge entirely on his throwing ability.
You want to say he's not an "elite" athlete, then maybe. But to say he "isn't that great" just has little merit.
Great is a relative term. Is he a great athlete compared to the average 23 year old guy? Sure.Is he Vince Young or Mike Vick? Not even close.

Tebow might succeed as a pro QB, but it won't have much to do with his wheels.

People really overrated the "slash" aspect when they talk about QB prospects who had some success running the ball in college. That stuff generally just doesn't work against the insane speed/strength of pro defenses.
You do realize there's more to being an athlete than running fast, right? If you want to say he's not an elite runner or isn't that great of a runner in terms of speed, you won't get much argument there. But to say he's not a great ATHLETE is simply false, IMO. The guy is a tremendous athlete, not just compared to average 23 year old guys, but compared to other athletes in the NFL. Looking at just his speed and ignoring his tremendous power, strength, and agility is disingenuous.
 
He gives the WEIRDEST interviews ever...does he listen to himself? I've never heard anyone talk the way he does...so friggin odd...like most home-schooled kids...just an oddball...but I still think he can be a half-way decent QB...

 
Thing is, Tebow really isn't that great of an athlete and won't be a dynamic runner at the NFL level, so his long term prospects really hinge entirely on his throwing ability.
You want to say he's not an "elite" athlete, then maybe. But to say he "isn't that great" just has little merit.
Great is a relative term. Is he a great athlete compared to the average 23 year old guy? Sure.Is he Vince Young or Mike Vick? Not even close.

Tebow might succeed as a pro QB, but it won't have much to do with his wheels.

People really overrated the "slash" aspect when they talk about QB prospects who had some success running the ball in college. That stuff generally just doesn't work against the insane speed/strength of pro defenses.
You do realize there's more to being an athlete than running fast, right? If you want to say he's not an elite runner or isn't that great of a runner in terms of speed, you won't get much argument there. But to say he's not a great ATHLETE is simply false, IMO. The guy is a tremendous athlete, not just compared to average 23 year old guys, but compared to other athletes in the NFL. Looking at just his speed and ignoring his tremendous power, strength, and agility is disingenuous.
Almost every player on the field in the NFL is a great athlete. David Gettis was a three time 400m champion in California. Fendi Obobun and Jimmy Graham were 4 star basketball recruits. Toby Gerhart played center field for the Stanford baseball team. Guys like this are commonplace in the NFL. If you think Tebow's athletic ability somehow distinguishes him from the rest of the freaks in the NFL, you are mistaken. He brings nothing dynamic to the table as an athlete compared to the players he'll face on Sundays.

As I said earlier, his workout numbers are reminiscent of a slow, undersized TE. There's a reason slow, undersized TEs don't take handoffs out of the backfield. I'm not "ignoring his tremendous power, strength, and agility" as much as I'm recognizing that the DBs/LBs/DEs in the NFL trump him in every single one of those categories.

 
Thing is, Tebow really isn't that great of an athlete and won't be a dynamic runner at the NFL level, so his long term prospects really hinge entirely on his throwing ability.
You want to say he's not an "elite" athlete, then maybe. But to say he "isn't that great" just has little merit.
Great is a relative term. Is he a great athlete compared to the average 23 year old guy? Sure.Is he Vince Young or Mike Vick? Not even close.

Tebow might succeed as a pro QB, but it won't have much to do with his wheels.

People really overrated the "slash" aspect when they talk about QB prospects who had some success running the ball in college. That stuff generally just doesn't work against the insane speed/strength of pro defenses.
You do realize there's more to being an athlete than running fast, right? If you want to say he's not an elite runner or isn't that great of a runner in terms of speed, you won't get much argument there. But to say he's not a great ATHLETE is simply false, IMO. The guy is a tremendous athlete, not just compared to average 23 year old guys, but compared to other athletes in the NFL. Looking at just his speed and ignoring his tremendous power, strength, and agility is disingenuous.
Almost every player on the field in the NFL is a great athlete. David Gettis was a three time 400m champion in California. Fendi Obobun and Jimmy Graham were 4 star basketball recruits. Toby Gerhart played center field for the Stanford baseball team. Guys like this are commonplace in the NFL. If you think Tebow's athletic ability somehow distinguishes him from the rest of the freaks in the NFL, you are mistaken. He brings nothing dynamic to the table as an athlete compared to the players he'll face on Sundays.

As I said earlier, his workout numbers are reminiscent of a slow, undersized TE. There's a reason slow, undersized TEs don't take handoffs out of the backfield. I'm not "ignoring his tremendous power, strength, and agility" as much as I'm recognizing that the DBs/LBs/DEs in the NFL trump him in every single one of those categories.
I'm sure you know this is coming, but how many of those athletic freaks had the kind of rushing production that Tebow had against SEC level competition?I don't think anyone is saying he'll be as dynamic as Vick or even Young in the open field - that's not his game. What I see more is short yardage/goal line conversions, which is not exciting for fantasy purposes, but very important for NFL. Think Barry Sanders vs Jerome Bettis: who would you rather have on 3rd and 1?

 
I'm sure you know this is coming, but how many of those athletic freaks had the kind of rushing production that Tebow had against SEC level competition?

I don't think anyone is saying he'll be as dynamic as Vick or even Young in the open field - that's not his game. What I see more is short yardage/goal line conversions, which is not exciting for fantasy purposes, but very important for NFL. Think Barry Sanders vs Jerome Bettis: who would you rather have on 3rd and 1?
I think the broader point is that his running skills are nearly irrelevant. Let's pretend that he has a special role as a goal line QB who gets a lot of rushing opportunities near the stripe (it won't happen because the Broncos won't want their franchise QB getting hammered near the goal line, but let's pretend). I say...So what?

A handful of extra touchdowns will not make or break his FF value. The only thing that really matters is his throwing ability. Just look around the league at the elite NFL/FF QBs. Manning. Brady. Brees. Rodgers. Roethlisberger. Romo. Cutler.

I could probably beat every single one of these guys in a footrace. Playing QB in the NFL is not about how fast you run. It's about staying poised in the pocket, avoiding the pass rush, making good decisions, and delivering an accurate football on every level of the field.

That's it.

You'll note that agility/speed/burst/strength are not among the requirements. Brady and Manning are pathetic athletes compared to the average NFL defender. Fortunately for them, their position doesn't require them to be great athletes. All it requires is the proper throwing skills and mental intangibles.

If you can run, that adds a little something, but it's a tertiary concern. Above average running skills will not convince an NFL team to keep a terrible passer on the field. Hence Tebow's running ability being irrelevant. His career trajectory will hinge 100% on his ability to become an effective passer. If he fails in that regard, his running skills will not save him from the waiver wire.

I said the same things about Vince Young and I'll say them again next year about Jake Locker, who's an even better athlete than Tebow. These guys will ultimately live or die based solely on their ability as passers. Don't let the athletic qualities distract you from what's really important.

 
http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d8...mp;confirm=true

Tebow throws tight, compact passes in his first Broncos minicamp

Associated Press

ENGLEWOOD, Colo. -- Tim Tebow is making his NFL debut at the Denver Broncos' minicamp for rookies.

The 2007 Heisman Trophy winner from Florida and surprising first-round draft pick dons an orange No. 15 jersey and is participating in workouts on a chilly Friday morning with six other draft choices, 19 college free agents and two wide receivers trying out with the team.

During the 25-minute period in which reporters, photographers and cameramen are allowed to observe, Tebow ran agility drills, then threw several passes under the watchful eyes of coach Josh McDaniels and his younger brother, Ben, who is Denver's new quarterbacks coach.

Deploying his new and improved throwing motion that removes the looping windup he had in college, Tebow's throws were tight and compact.

Over the offseason, the Broncos also acquired quarterback Brady Quinn -- a 2007 first-round pick -- from the Cleveland Browns.

 
Thing is, Tebow really isn't that great of an athlete and won't be a dynamic runner at the NFL level, so his long term prospects really hinge entirely on his throwing ability.
You want to say he's not an "elite" athlete, then maybe. But to say he "isn't that great" just has little merit.
Great is a relative term. Is he a great athlete compared to the average 23 year old guy? Sure.Is he Vince Young or Mike Vick? Not even close.

Tebow might succeed as a pro QB, but it won't have much to do with his wheels.

People really overrated the "slash" aspect when they talk about QB prospects who had some success running the ball in college. That stuff generally just doesn't work against the insane speed/strength of pro defenses.
You do realize there's more to being an athlete than running fast, right? If you want to say he's not an elite runner or isn't that great of a runner in terms of speed, you won't get much argument there. But to say he's not a great ATHLETE is simply false, IMO. The guy is a tremendous athlete, not just compared to average 23 year old guys, but compared to other athletes in the NFL. Looking at just his speed and ignoring his tremendous power, strength, and agility is disingenuous.
Almost every player on the field in the NFL is a great athlete. David Gettis was a three time 400m champion in California. Fendi Obobun and Jimmy Graham were 4 star basketball recruits. Toby Gerhart played center field for the Stanford baseball team. Guys like this are commonplace in the NFL. If you think Tebow's athletic ability somehow distinguishes him from the rest of the freaks in the NFL, you are mistaken. He brings nothing dynamic to the table as an athlete compared to the players he'll face on Sundays.

As I said earlier, his workout numbers are reminiscent of a slow, undersized TE. There's a reason slow, undersized TEs don't take handoffs out of the backfield. I'm not "ignoring his tremendous power, strength, and agility" as much as I'm recognizing that the DBs/LBs/DEs in the NFL trump him in every single one of those categories.
For comparative purposes, what's the difference in speed between Tebow and Steve Young? Young ended his career with 4000+ yards and 40+ rushing TD's. Young also had 6 seasons of 300+ rushing yards.
 
Thing is, Tebow really isn't that great of an athlete and won't be a dynamic runner at the NFL level, so his long term prospects really hinge entirely on his throwing ability.
You want to say he's not an "elite" athlete, then maybe. But to say he "isn't that great" just has little merit.
Great is a relative term. Is he a great athlete compared to the average 23 year old guy? Sure.Is he Vince Young or Mike Vick? Not even close.

Tebow might succeed as a pro QB, but it won't have much to do with his wheels.

People really overrated the "slash" aspect when they talk about QB prospects who had some success running the ball in college. That stuff generally just doesn't work against the insane speed/strength of pro defenses.
You do realize there's more to being an athlete than running fast, right? If you want to say he's not an elite runner or isn't that great of a runner in terms of speed, you won't get much argument there. But to say he's not a great ATHLETE is simply false, IMO. The guy is a tremendous athlete, not just compared to average 23 year old guys, but compared to other athletes in the NFL. Looking at just his speed and ignoring his tremendous power, strength, and agility is disingenuous.
Almost every player on the field in the NFL is a great athlete. David Gettis was a three time 400m champion in California. Fendi Obobun and Jimmy Graham were 4 star basketball recruits. Toby Gerhart played center field for the Stanford baseball team. Guys like this are commonplace in the NFL. If you think Tebow's athletic ability somehow distinguishes him from the rest of the freaks in the NFL, you are mistaken. He brings nothing dynamic to the table as an athlete compared to the players he'll face on Sundays.

As I said earlier, his workout numbers are reminiscent of a slow, undersized TE. There's a reason slow, undersized TEs don't take handoffs out of the backfield. I'm not "ignoring his tremendous power, strength, and agility" as much as I'm recognizing that the DBs/LBs/DEs in the NFL trump him in every single one of those categories.
Damn, that was well said.
 
The guy is stronger than linemen, has safety speed, and ran the shuttle drills quicker than most RBs. I'd love to know how you base your opinion he isn't a great athlete when pretty much everyone disagrees with you.
Safety speed? Maybe a high school safety.Tebow is 236 pounds with a 4.71 forty time. At best his athleticism is comparable to that of a slow, undersized NFL TE.

He will not be a dynamic runner against NFL defenses.
Wasn't his 3-cone and vertical ridiculous? I don't recall the specifics, but I thought I remembered people saying they were the best ever for a QB and among tops even among WRs and RBs.Tebow doesn't have elite top end speed. He's not going to break off those 50 yard TD runs like Vick did. But he does have very good agility and burst, which he doesn't get enough credit for, and which combined with his strength is plenty for picking up those solid chunks like Miami tries to get out of the wildcat (which is basically what Tebow did on his running plays in college).
Yes, his 3-cone drill was ridiculous and his 40 time was really slow.http://www.nfl.com/combine/top-performers#...hree-cone-drill

 
I think the most enjoyable thing to me about the Tim Tebow era is the rampant hyperventilation by so many Tebow-haters declaring how he's:

1) no good

2) overrated

3) slow

4) not a good runner

5) blah blah blah

I'm pretty sure there's been more deliberation (or it seems 10 times more) about his future in the NFL than anyone in the history of college football.

I think what makes Tim Tebow special is:

1) How he can be used in an offense

2) His work ethic and off-field leadership

3) His on-field leadership and ability to make things happen when he's playing

People who have never seen him do anything special should look at the 2008 SEC Championship vs Alabama in the 4th quarter. Follow that up with the 4th quarter of the BCS Championship game against Oklahoma. He completed every pass, moved the chains and led the Gators to 2 comeback victories.

As for the NFL, his running ability (decent speed, extremely strong upper and lower body, and willingness to take a hit as well as deliver one) will make defenses have to deal with a much larger variety of options than most QBs.

I think his weakness is what Florida didn't run in the passing game which is 10-20 yard sideline passes. Most of the Gator passing plays were in the middle of the field as well as long WR post patterns. I'm not sure if that's because it was Tebow's strength or just the preference of the Offensive coordinator but that's what I saw.

But inside the 5 yard line, Tebow and the Gators were the most dominant team in the country for 4 straight years. This is what the Broncos are going to see this year.

 
I suspect it will work out for Denver better than most people think. Obviously every QB is a project, but you hope to have as little work to do as possible as a coach. I could be "project QB" in the NFL - but my chances at success would be somewhere below .000000001Tebow may not display mechanics that are anywhere close to where they need to be. However, what he does do is deliver the football to where it needs to go to make a play happen with frequency. He's also willing to be coached and has shown that he can learn relatviely quick due to his work ethic and humble attitiude. It also doesn't hurt that he his strong and and fast. Even if he can't make reads as good as Clausen or hasn't displayed the pure accuracy and mechanics that Bradford has - he can certainly make up for it to a degree by extending plays. And its not a stretch to think that he can be taught better mechanics (improving his accuracy) and learn to read defenses in a relatively short period of time (1 to 2 years). If that happens, you have a very complete package. He could be as dangerous as Vick outside of the pocket (not as fast, but a lot harder to bring down on contact), but have passing skills to go with it that are much better..... and obviously he is also a much better team leader than Vick.
I agree, he could well be the pick of the draft if he can realize his potential.However, I think he is a minimum of 1-2 seasons away from being Denvers starter. This is not necessarily a bad thing. If he is a good student of the game and can fix his throwing motion, he does have many of the intangibles that will make him a solid NFL starter.Those are a lot of ifs, so I wouldnt get too excited yet.I figure we will have a good idea of his chances to live up to his potential by this time next year. To go out and say he is a surefire stud or a surefire dud at this point would be premature.
 
I suspect it will work out for Denver better than most people think. Obviously every QB is a project, but you hope to have as little work to do as possible as a coach. I could be "project QB" in the NFL - but my chances at success would be somewhere below .000000001Tebow may not display mechanics that are anywhere close to where they need to be. However, what he does do is deliver the football to where it needs to go to make a play happen with frequency. He's also willing to be coached and has shown that he can learn relatviely quick due to his work ethic and humble attitiude. It also doesn't hurt that he his strong and and fast. Even if he can't make reads as good as Clausen or hasn't displayed the pure accuracy and mechanics that Bradford has - he can certainly make up for it to a degree by extending plays. And its not a stretch to think that he can be taught better mechanics (improving his accuracy) and learn to read defenses in a relatively short period of time (1 to 2 years). If that happens, you have a very complete package. He could be as dangerous as Vick outside of the pocket (not as fast, but a lot harder to bring down on contact), but have passing skills to go with it that are much better..... and obviously he is also a much better team leader than Vick.
I agree, he could well be the pick of the draft if he can realize his potential.However, I think he is a minimum of 1-2 seasons away from being Denvers starter. This is not necessarily a bad thing. If he is a good student of the game and can fix his throwing motion, he does have many of the intangibles that will make him a solid NFL starter.Those are a lot of ifs, so I wouldnt get too excited yet.I figure we will have a good idea of his chances to live up to his potential by this time next year. To go out and say he is a surefire stud or a surefire dud at this point would be premature.
Indeed. As a Denver fan, I hated the pick at the time. But now, I'm kind of excited. He may succeed. He may not. But it will be very entertaining to watch his development. For a team that has ridded itself of its two most exciting players in the span of two years, Tebow may be just what is needed to keep fans interested.
 
I'm sure you know this is coming, but how many of those athletic freaks had the kind of rushing production that Tebow had against SEC level competition?

I don't think anyone is saying he'll be as dynamic as Vick or even Young in the open field - that's not his game. What I see more is short yardage/goal line conversions, which is not exciting for fantasy purposes, but very important for NFL. Think Barry Sanders vs Jerome Bettis: who would you rather have on 3rd and 1?
I think the broader point is that his running skills are nearly irrelevant. Let's pretend that he has a special role as a goal line QB who gets a lot of rushing opportunities near the stripe (it won't happen because the Broncos won't want their franchise QB getting hammered near the goal line, but let's pretend). I say...So what?

A handful of extra touchdowns will not make or break his FF value. The only thing that really matters is his throwing ability. Just look around the league at the elite NFL/FF QBs. Manning. Brady. Brees. Rodgers. Roethlisberger. Romo. Cutler.

I could probably beat every single one of these guys in a footrace. Playing QB in the NFL is not about how fast you run. It's about staying poised in the pocket, avoiding the pass rush, making good decisions, and delivering an accurate football on every level of the field.

That's it.

You'll note that agility/speed/burst/strength are not among the requirements. Brady and Manning are pathetic athletes compared to the average NFL defender. Fortunately for them, their position doesn't require them to be great athletes. All it requires is the proper throwing skills and mental intangibles.

If you can run, that adds a little something, but it's a tertiary concern. Above average running skills will not convince an NFL team to keep a terrible passer on the field. Hence Tebow's running ability being irrelevant. His career trajectory will hinge 100% on his ability to become an effective passer. If he fails in that regard, his running skills will not save him from the waiver wire.

I said the same things about Vince Young and I'll say them again next year about Jake Locker, who's an even better athlete than Tebow. These guys will ultimately live or die based solely on their ability as passers. Don't let the athletic qualities distract you from what's really important.
You're right, of course. Ultimately, it coems down to if the guy can throw the ball at an NFL caliber. The main reason Tebow ultimately will succeed or fail will be one of the two QB attributes you mentioned - proper throwing skills and mental intangibles. Tebow fans will be focusing on the latter, of course, and intangibles should not be discounted. There's a reason guys like Ryan Leaf or Jeff George were never stud NFL QB's, and IMO Tebow has what those guys lacked.Additionally, the broader point I'm trying to make is that Tebow may end up being more valuable to the Broncos than he is to the FF community, and there's nothing wrong with that.

 
The guy is stronger than linemen, has safety speed, and ran the shuttle drills quicker than most RBs. I'd love to know how you base your opinion he isn't a great athlete when pretty much everyone disagrees with you.
Safety speed? Maybe a high school safety.Tebow is 236 pounds with a 4.71 forty time. At best his athleticism is comparable to that of a slow, undersized NFL TE.

He will not be a dynamic runner against NFL defenses.
Wasn't his 3-cone and vertical ridiculous? I don't recall the specifics, but I thought I remembered people saying they were the best ever for a QB and among tops even among WRs and RBs.Tebow doesn't have elite top end speed. He's not going to break off those 50 yard TD runs like Vick did. But he does have very good agility and burst, which he doesn't get enough credit for, and which combined with his strength is plenty for picking up those solid chunks like Miami tries to get out of the wildcat (which is basically what Tebow did on his running plays in college).
9'7" broad jump, 38.5" vert, 6.66 sec (ironic number) 3 cone.Pretty darn good for a QB, the broad jump is average for a WR and RB, the vert and cone drill would be very good.
I wonder how Tebow's measurables compare to some other big, athletic QBs who have shown an ability to scramble? Vince Young? Culpepper? If anyone knows I would appreciate it if you could post comparable Combine numbers for those players. Clearly he is no Vick, but if he can scramble like Culpepper that would be very valuable. Part of Culpepper's decline was when he got hurt and lost the ability to scramble. Scrambling set up the passing game for him.EDIT: I can't find Culpeppers but I did find the results for QB for last 10 years and to be honest, although Tebow had the best Vertical Jump at 38.5 and the best Cone drill, overall, his numbers are closer to Alex Smith than anyone. His 40 time at 4.71 isn't that bad, but it is pretty average--think Cutler or Roethlisberger type speed. Young only did the 40 and his time is quite a bit better at 4.48.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/history...ine/position/QB

 
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The guy is stronger than linemen, has safety speed, and ran the shuttle drills quicker than most RBs. I'd love to know how you base your opinion he isn't a great athlete when pretty much everyone disagrees with you.
Safety speed? Maybe a high school safety.Tebow is 236 pounds with a 4.71 forty time. At best his athleticism is comparable to that of a slow, undersized NFL TE.

He will not be a dynamic runner against NFL defenses.
Wasn't his 3-cone and vertical ridiculous? I don't recall the specifics, but I thought I remembered people saying they were the best ever for a QB and among tops even among WRs and RBs.Tebow doesn't have elite top end speed. He's not going to break off those 50 yard TD runs like Vick did. But he does have very good agility and burst, which he doesn't get enough credit for, and which combined with his strength is plenty for picking up those solid chunks like Miami tries to get out of the wildcat (which is basically what Tebow did on his running plays in college).
9'7" broad jump, 38.5" vert, 6.66 sec (ironic number) 3 cone.Pretty darn good for a QB, the broad jump is average for a WR and RB, the vert and cone drill would be very good.
I wonder how Tebow's measurables compare to some other big, athletic QBs who have shown an ability to scramble? Vince Young? Culpepper? If anyone knows I would appreciate it if you could post comparable Combine numbers for those players. Clearly he is no Vick, but if he can scramble like Culpepper that would be very valuable. Part of Culpepper's decline was when he got hurt and lost the ability to scramble. Scrambling set up the passing game for him.EDIT: I can't find Culpeppers but I did find the results for QB for last 10 years and to be honest, although Tebow had the best Vertical Jump at 38.5 and the best Cone drill, overall, his numbers are closer to Alex Smith than anyone. His 40 time at 4.71 isn't that bad, but it is pretty average--think Cutler or Roethlisberger type speed. Young only did the 40 and his time is quite a bit better at 4.48.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/history...ine/position/QB
By overall do you mean 40 time? Cause I'm fairly certain his other measurables would smoke Smith's. IMO if you are going to look at one measurable, the best indicator of athleticism is vertical. It shows how explosive an athlete is.
 

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