Tim Tebow - 8.17.21 Waived By Jacksonville (2 Viewers)

[SacramentoBob]

Since 2002:

QB	W	LDerek Anderson	10	5Kyle Boller	9	7Byron Leftwich	8	6Roethlisberger	13	0Eli Manning	11	5Kyle Orton	10	5Vince Young	8	5Joe Flacco	11	5Matt Ryan	11	5Mark Sanchez	11	5Josh Freeman	10	6

 

[Buffaloes]

It's pretty ironic that this exact finish 4 seasons ago got Skeletor canned but is being celebrated now.

I don't think I have seen a lot of Bronco fans celebrating after the KC game.

 

[King of the Wolfies]

once skip clueless likes someone, they can do no wrong because any wrong is someone elses fault. i can already hear him "all tebow did was lead the broncos to the playoffs". he'll completely gloss over that tebow has sucked, and that their record is a whopping 8-8. i really think that skip believes that if he says something negative about tebow, god will send a lightning bolt into the studio and kill him. the den-buf game was classic. 1st he #####es that den runs against the bad run defense, then #####es that tebow was forced to pass into a great secondary. listening to skip's lunatic ravings is more fun than watching most sitcoms these days..

No, he'll blame it on Willis for not catching that late pass down the sidelines.

lets not forget his hatred of eric decker, so i'm sure he'l mention at least once that decker didnt make any spectacular catches.

 

[The Dude]

It's pretty ironic that this exact finish 4 seasons ago got Skeletor canned but is being celebrated now.

I don't think I have seen a lot of Bronco fans celebrating after the KC game.

It's a little different - turned it around after a horrible start and its the first year under a new head coach - lot different than finishing 8-8 with a coach that has been in place for many years

 

[The Dude]

I'm not in the camp that says he can't do it - but he is going to need to show the ability to make some changes. He's gun shy of throwing the ball right now.

That said - I think they play the Steelers tougher than most think they will

 

[Sinn Fein]

Anyone got a list of QBs that took their team to a division title within 2 years?

I think the immortal Shaun King and Rex Grossman make that list.

King went 10-6 year 2. Close, but no division title.Grossman - not close, sorry.

Meh. I'd still take King's 10-6 over Tebow's 7-4 given how badly he's played down the stretch.And Grossman went 13-3 with a division title and a Superbowl appearance in his first year as a starter (he had played only 8 games in his first 3 seasons due to injuries).The bottom line is that King and Grossman followed a long line of bad QBs who still had winning regular seasons based on strong defenses. And Tebow belongs in the same category.

This kind of thing is why I think the Tebow haters haven't watched much of Denver.The Broncos don't have a strong defense. They have done well against bad offenses in some games. That's different. The Broncos defense is 25th in the NFL this year and that's against a pretty easy schedule. Since Tebow took the helm it's still one of the worst defenses in the AFC by points allowed, those numbers weren't compiled just in Orton's 5 games.

In five of Tebow's seven wins, the defense allowed 15 points or less. The defense has carried them through the wins much more often than not (the Oakland and Minnesota games being the exception, although the defense still came up with numerous turnovers).

Those 5 wins includeda Bears who averaged 11.75 PPG with Hanie as starter.The Dolphins who were at the time 0-6 and had scored 20 points or more once up to that point.The Chiefs who are the 2nd worst offense in the NFL (behind St Louis).The Jets on 3 days rest and Chargers were good showings by the D, the Vikings and Bills were bad showings.The rest were against terrible offenses or Lions/Pats who both scored 40+.Face it the Broncos faced an easy schedule which made the defense look better. The 31st defense in 2010 and 25th defense in 2011 isn't suddenly the best in the league as much as people want to pretend.

OK, they've relied on an incredibly weak schedule down the stretch to get them into the playoffs. I don't think that makes it a better argument in favor of Tebow.

The Broncos were 1-4 against teams with winning records this year, with the 1 win coming with Orton at QB.

 

[SacramentoBob]

The Broncos were 1-4 against teams with winning records this year, with the 1 win coming with Orton at QB.

Imagine if they still had Orton with what McGahee brought to the table after being the starter.

 

[Ghost Rider]

The Broncos were 1-4 against teams with winning records this year, with the 1 win coming with Orton at QB.

And they have four wins against teams with an 8-8 record (all of which came with Tebow starting), which means that had they lost all of those games, they would be 1-8 against team with winning records, and you'd still be hear saying they can't beat good teams.

 

[AmosMoses]

Anyone got a list of QBs that took their team to a division title within 2 years?

I think the immortal Shaun King and Rex Grossman make that list.

King went 10-6 year 2. Close, but no division title.Grossman - not close, sorry.

10-6 would've won the division for the Broncos and maybe a #3 seed. So any QB who led their team to at least 8-8 in their first two years qualifies.

10-6 wouldn't have won the division for the Broncos since they weren't in the NFC Central in 2000. Sorry.

 

[AmosMoses]

Anyone got a list of QBs that took their team to a division title within 2 years?

I think the immortal Shaun King and Rex Grossman make that list.

King went 10-6 year 2. Close, but no division title.Grossman - not close, sorry.

Meh. I'd still take King's 10-6 over Tebow's 7-4 given how badly he's played down the stretch.And Grossman went 13-3 with a division title and a Superbowl appearance in his first year as a starter (he had played only 8 games in his first 3 seasons due to injuries).

I'm sorry, this does not count.

The bottom line is that King and Grossman followed a long line of bad QBs who still had winning regular seasons based on strong defenses. And Tebow belongs in the same category.

No. Grossman is disqualified, so he won't be mentioned. Shaun King's defense was ranked #7. Tim Tebow's defense was ranked #25. I guess that's strong if you compare it to the #32 ranked defense, but otherwise your idea that Tebow's defense carries the team is just wrong, sorry. #25 defense.

 

[FUBAR]

I'm not in the camp that says he can't do it - but he is going to need to show the ability to make some changes. He's gun shy of throwing the ball right now.That said - I think they play the Steelers tougher than most think they will

It's funny how many people seem to have their mind made up on Tebow while few other rookie QBs are as heavily scrutinized. If he doesn't improve as a passer, he won't last long except as a gimmick player and backup. But he very well could improve. It would also be nice if Denver had a legitimate #1 WR or Thomas develops into one.

 

[FUBAR]

Tim Tebow's defense was ranked #25. I guess that's strong if you compare it to the #32 ranked defense, but otherwise your idea that Tebow's defense carries the team is just wrong, sorry. #25 defense.

This is an understated point. Denver's defense is not good. Their opponents in the 2nd half of the season were weak, which pushed them into the playoffs. I can't seem to find an updated SOS, but the Broncos had to have one of the weakest schedules.

 

[munchkin]

Tim Tebow's defense was ranked #25. I guess that's strong if you compare it to the #32 ranked defense, but otherwise your idea that Tebow's defense carries the team is just wrong, sorry. #25 defense.

This is an understated point. Denver's defense is not good. Their opponents in the 2nd half of the season were weak, which pushed them into the playoffs. I can't seem to find an updated SOS, but the Broncos had to have one of the weakest schedules.

You are not implying that that has anything to do with yesterday's loss I hope?The Denver defense is not great but for the most part they kept them in games. Their offense didn't do them any favors either. Fox did a good job with what he had to work with on both sides of the ball.

 

[tom22406]

Tim Tebow's defense was ranked #25. I guess that's strong if you compare it to the #32 ranked defense, but otherwise your idea that Tebow's defense carries the team is just wrong, sorry. #25 defense.

This is an understated point. Denver's defense is not good. Their opponents in the 2nd half of the season were weak, which pushed them into the playoffs. I can't seem to find an updated SOS, but the Broncos had to have one of the weakest schedules.

The Denver defense is not great but for the most part they kept them in games. Their offense didn't do them any favors either. Fox did a good job with what he had to work with on both sides of the ball.

Fox did do a very good job in getting them as far as he could with what he had on both sides of the ball.The bottom line is they just don't trust Tebow at all to throw the ball that they don't even attempt a 1st down pass early in games.He is doing what he thinks can keep them in games by pounding the rock with the run game and limit the mistakes in the passing game.And let's face facts here people.Tebow has been historically bad statistically as a QB(throwing).Steelers now come in limping with a banged up running game and a QB that can't move so they will continue the same gameplan in order to give them the best chance to win.

 

[Sinn Fein]

I'm not in the camp that says he can't do it - but he is going to need to show the ability to make some changes. He's gun shy of throwing the ball right now.That said - I think they play the Steelers tougher than most think they will

It's funny how many people seem to have their mind made up on Tebow while few other rookie QBs are as heavily scrutinized. If he doesn't improve as a passer, he won't last long except as a gimmick player and backup. But he very well could improve. It would also be nice if Denver had a legitimate #1 WR or Thomas develops into one.

He is not a rookie. And, I don't see any improvement in his passing from last year to now, nor from the beginning of the season to now. He is still wildly inaccurate at all levels of throws, and relies on making plays when the designed play breaks down. But, he has an unusually faithful following, not normally associated with "rookie" QBs who so badly want him to be a good QB that they are willing to overlook the evidence in front of them.

 

[munchkin]

There is no way to defend how bad Tebow looked today, but keep in mind that the Chiefs defense played lights out under Crennel. Heck, they held the Packers to only 14 points (a team that averaged 36 points per game in their other 15 games), so struggling against that defense isn't exactly shameful. Either way, I expect the Broncos to run all day against the Steelers next week. Pittsburgh's run defense hasn't been as impenetrable as in years past, so I think they'll have some success. Enough to win? Not sure, but it sure be another low-scoring, boring game.

It's pretty ironic that this exact finish 4 seasons ago got Skeletor canned but is being celebrated now.

Who is celebrating it?

I expect them to run all day against the Steelers, too. For about 2.4 yards per carry. Teams don't make a good living lining up against the Steelers a running it down their throat.

Generally speaking, that is true, but the few teams the Steelers played this year that can actually run the ball well did pretty well against them - Houston ran it all over them; Jones-Drew had a good day against them; Ray Rice ran it all over them in week 1 and would have statistically as well in the 2nd Pit/Balt game had that TD run on the first play of the game not been wiped out by a bogus holding call; SF had a poor YPC against them, but still got 100 as a team against them. And none of those teams run the ball as well as the Broncos do as a team. Should be a good matchup.

McGhee is not healthy. Whatever mojo the Broncos had a few weeks ago is all but gone. The fans will be into it early but it won't help. LeBeau's defense will be too much for Tebow. Redman isn't much of a step down from Mendenhall and Pittsburgh's receivers are pretty good. This game is not close. 35-6 Steelers

 

[moleculo]

Here's the Tebow problem in a nutshell: Right now, he's not good enough to be a consistently good NFL QB, but the Tebowites are loud and irrational. Tebow cannot be a back-up QB; the fans would have none of it and there would be a full-scale revolt.

There is a place for a player of Tebow's caliber and current skill-set in the NFL. Here's what he should be: back-up QB and set play specialist. He could come in for a series or two and run the read option. He would be an excellent red-zone QB. Coming in off of the bench, the emotion and leadership he brings would up-lift the entire team. As a back-up QB who was called on to keep things in check, we would be more than adequate. If Tebow does not progress as a thrower and a QB this off-season, this is what I think Tebow could be, and it would be an extremely valuable component to a dominant offense.

That won't happen though. The only way for the Tebowites to settle down is for Tebow to sustain nearly a full season of failure. He's going to be given every chance to succeed in 2012, and I think he's earned it. He's going to have a relatively long leash as well, in order to avoid a full fan revolt, it will need to be painfully obvious to 95% of the football watching population that he cannot succeed. IMO, that's the only way for Tebow to settle into the above role.

Problem is, even as poor as Tebow plays right now, he's good enough to lead an average team. IMO, he's good enough to beat bad teams but bad enough to lose to good teams. So, he's average at best. I think Tebow, coupled with an averageish defense, is good enough for an 8-8 consistent record. Outside of the AFC west, that isn't good enough to get into the playoffs consistently.

There is hope that he can improve, and then this all goes away. He has never had an off-season (signed just before camp in 2010, no off-season in 2011). He has been through three head coaches. For a player that was widely accepted as deficient, Tebow has had some remarkable obstacles in his development. It's not like he got to sit behind Brett Favre for three years with a consistent coaching staff before being handed the reigns.

I think someone should be brought in to challenge Tebow in 2012, but I don't think any free-agent would really want to subject himself to the Tebow circus. It's going to be an interesting season.

 

[AmosMoses]

There is no way to defend how bad Tebow looked today, but keep in mind that the Chiefs defense played lights out under Crennel. Heck, they held the Packers to only 14 points (a team that averaged 36 points per game in their other 15 games), so struggling against that defense isn't exactly shameful. Either way, I expect the Broncos to run all day against the Steelers next week. Pittsburgh's run defense hasn't been as impenetrable as in years past, so I think they'll have some success. Enough to win? Not sure, but it sure be another low-scoring, boring game.

It's pretty ironic that this exact finish 4 seasons ago got Skeletor canned but is being celebrated now.

Who is celebrating it?

I expect them to run all day against the Steelers, too. For about 2.4 yards per carry. Teams don't make a good living lining up against the Steelers a running it down their throat.

Generally speaking, that is true, but the few teams the Steelers played this year that can actually run the ball well did pretty well against them - Houston ran it all over them; Jones-Drew had a good day against them; Ray Rice ran it all over them in week 1 and would have statistically as well in the 2nd Pit/Balt game had that TD run on the first play of the game not been wiped out by a bogus holding call; SF had a poor YPC against them, but still got 100 as a team against them. And none of those teams run the ball as well as the Broncos do as a team. Should be a good matchup.

McGhee is not healthy. Whatever mojo the Broncos had a few weeks ago is all but gone. The fans will be into it early but it won't help. LeBeau's defense will be too much for Tebow. Redman isn't much of a step down from Mendenhall and Pittsburgh's receivers are pretty good. This game is not close. 35-6 Steelers

Steeler's front line is old and crusty.Ryan Clark's misshapen blood cells won't let him play in Denver.Polamalu has a trillion concussions by now.LBs are still hurt, and Harrison has brain damage from the roids.Mark Pouncey and Big Ben have 1 good ankle between them.Mendenhall is OUT.

 

[duaneok66]

The problem is that if you bring someone in to "challenge" Tebow for the starter, then you have to have another system ready to be used. They use the read option with Tebow, with a "standard" QB you have a more conventional offense. Then, depending on who "wins" the battle, you have to have TWO systems in place. This is not practical.

 

[moleculo]

The problem is that if you bring someone in to "challenge" Tebow for the starter, then you have to have another system ready to be used. They use the read option with Tebow, with a "standard" QB you have a more conventional offense. Then, depending on who "wins" the battle, you have to have TWO systems in place. This is not practical.

Not really. Read option stuff is a few select plays, rest of Broncos O is the same that they ran w/ Orton. It's a matter of run/pass balance and calling plays tailored for the personnel on the field, same as any other team.It's not like Tebow requires a completely new playbook.

 

[munchkin]

There is no way to defend how bad Tebow looked today, but keep in mind that the Chiefs defense played lights out under Crennel. Heck, they held the Packers to only 14 points (a team that averaged 36 points per game in their other 15 games), so struggling against that defense isn't exactly shameful. Either way, I expect the Broncos to run all day against the Steelers next week. Pittsburgh's run defense hasn't been as impenetrable as in years past, so I think they'll have some success. Enough to win? Not sure, but it sure be another low-scoring, boring game.

It's pretty ironic that this exact finish 4 seasons ago got Skeletor canned but is being celebrated now.

Who is celebrating it?

I expect them to run all day against the Steelers, too. For about 2.4 yards per carry. Teams don't make a good living lining up against the Steelers a running it down their throat.

Generally speaking, that is true, but the few teams the Steelers played this year that can actually run the ball well did pretty well against them - Houston ran it all over them; Jones-Drew had a good day against them; Ray Rice ran it all over them in week 1 and would have statistically as well in the 2nd Pit/Balt game had that TD run on the first play of the game not been wiped out by a bogus holding call; SF had a poor YPC against them, but still got 100 as a team against them. And none of those teams run the ball as well as the Broncos do as a team. Should be a good matchup.

McGhee is not healthy. Whatever mojo the Broncos had a few weeks ago is all but gone. The fans will be into it early but it won't help. LeBeau's defense will be too much for Tebow. Redman isn't much of a step down from Mendenhall and Pittsburgh's receivers are pretty good. This game is not close. 35-6 Steelers

Steeler's front line is old and crusty.Ryan Clark's misshapen blood cells won't let him play in Denver.Polamalu has a trillion concussions by now.LBs are still hurt, and Harrison has brain damage from the roids.Mark Pouncey and Big Ben have 1 good ankle between them.Mendenhall is OUT.

That's why I only gave them 35.

 

[Two Deep]

The problem is that if you bring someone in to "challenge" Tebow for the starter, then you have to have another system ready to be used. They use the read option with Tebow, with a "standard" QB you have a more conventional offense. Then, depending on who "wins" the battle, you have to have TWO systems in place. This is not practical.

Not really. Read option stuff is a few select plays, rest of Broncos O is the same that they ran w/ Orton. It's a matter of run/pass balance and calling plays tailored for the personnel on the field, same as any other team.It's not like Tebow requires a completely new playbook.

Or one at all

 

[hammerva]

The problem is that no matter what side you are on with Tebow you are surrounded by d-bags and idiots. I mean how can you support a side when you look at the main characters:

Pro Tebow

Skip Bayless (enough said)

Peter King (becoming more delusional every week)

Pretty much every woman talking head on ESPN (I have yet to hear a logical explanation about how great he is on the field from them but can't stop telling everyone how attractive he is)

Religious conservatives who think he was sent down from heaven. Most of them haven't seen any of his play but he prays so that is enough for them

Anti Tebow

Stephen A Smith and Colin Cowherd. I mean who the #### wants to be lumped in with this phony garbage

Bill Maher and other condescending atheists

The pro and anti sides are so delusional and insane that it puts undo hate on Tebow who really has done nothing to deserve it. He is a just an average QB with a lot of heart and never quits even when his ability isn't enough most of the time.

 

[Two Deep]

once skip clueless likes someone, they can do no wrong because any wrong is someone elses fault. i can already hear him "all tebow did was lead the broncos to the playoffs". he'll completely gloss over that tebow has sucked, and that their record is a whopping 8-8. i really think that skip believes that if he says something negative about tebow, god will send a lightning bolt into the studio and kill him. the den-buf game was classic. 1st he #####es that den runs against the bad run defense, then #####es that tebow was forced to pass into a great secondary. listening to skip's lunatic ravings is more fun than watching most sitcoms these days..

No, he'll blame it on Willis for not catching that late pass down the sidelines.

lets not forget his hatred of eric decker, so i'm sure he'l mention at least once that decker didnt make any spectacular catches.

This explains where Schnikes gets his information. By the way where is that guy. Nothing but the sound of crickets from his camp

 

[duaneok66]

The problem is that if you bring someone in to "challenge" Tebow for the starter, then you have to have another system ready to be used. They use the read option with Tebow, with a "standard" QB you have a more conventional offense. Then, depending on who "wins" the battle, you have to have TWO systems in place. This is not practical.

Not really. Read option stuff is a few select plays, rest of Broncos O is the same that they ran w/ Orton. It's a matter of run/pass balance and calling plays tailored for the personnel on the field, same as any other team.It's not like Tebow requires a completely new playbook.

I stand corrected.Thank you.

 

[duaneok66]

once skip clueless likes someone, they can do no wrong because any wrong is someone elses fault. i can already hear him "all tebow did was lead the broncos to the playoffs". he'll completely gloss over that tebow has sucked, and that their record is a whopping 8-8. i really think that skip believes that if he says something negative about tebow, god will send a lightning bolt into the studio and kill him. the den-buf game was classic. 1st he #####es that den runs against the bad run defense, then #####es that tebow was forced to pass into a great secondary. listening to skip's lunatic ravings is more fun than watching most sitcoms these days..

No, he'll blame it on Willis for not catching that late pass down the sidelines.

lets not forget his hatred of eric decker, so i'm sure he'l mention at least once that decker didnt make any spectacular catches.

This explains where Schnikes gets his information. By the way where is that guy. Nothing but the sound of crickets from his camp

I was wondering the same thing.

 

[Two Deep]

The problem is that no matter what side you are on with Tebow you are surrounded by d-bags and idiots. I mean how can you support a side when you look at the main characters:

Pro Tebow

Skip Bayless (enough said)

Peter King (becoming more delusional every week)

Pretty much every woman talking head on ESPN (I have yet to hear a logical explanation about how great he is on the field from them but can't stop telling everyone how attractive he is)

Religious conservatives who think he was sent down from heaven. Most of them haven't seen any of his play but he prays so that is enough for them

Anti Tebow

Stephen A Smith and Colin Cowherd. I mean who the #### wants to be lumped in with this phony garbage

Bill Maher and other condescending atheists

Favreco

The pro and anti sides are so delusional and insane that it puts undo hate on Tebow who really has done nothing to deserve it. He is a just an average QB with a lot of heart and never quits even when his ability isn't enough most of the time.

 

[FavreCo]

Steeler's front line is old and crusty.Ryan Clark's misshapen blood cells won't let him play in Denver.Polamalu has a trillion concussions by now.LBs are still hurt, and Harrison has brain damage from the roids.Mark Pouncey and Big Ben have 1 good ankle between them.Mendenhall is OUT.

....Steelers still win. What's that tell your about your Tebow?

 

[Hoss Style]

There is no way to defend how bad Tebow looked today, but keep in mind that the Chiefs defense played lights out under Crennel. Heck, they held the Packers to only 14 points (a team that averaged 36 points per game in their other 15 games), so struggling against that defense isn't exactly shameful. Either way, I expect the Broncos to run all day against the Steelers next week. Pittsburgh's run defense hasn't been as impenetrable as in years past, so I think they'll have some success. Enough to win? Not sure, but it sure be another low-scoring, boring game.

It's pretty ironic that this exact finish 4 seasons ago got Skeletor canned but is being celebrated now.

Who is celebrating it?

I expect them to run all day against the Steelers, too. For about 2.4 yards per carry. Teams don't make a good living lining up against the Steelers a running it down their throat.

Generally speaking, that is true, but the few teams the Steelers played this year that can actually run the ball well did pretty well against them - Houston ran it all over them; Jones-Drew had a good day against them; Ray Rice ran it all over them in week 1 and would have statistically as well in the 2nd Pit/Balt game had that TD run on the first play of the game not been wiped out by a bogus holding call; SF had a poor YPC against them, but still got 100 as a team against them. And none of those teams run the ball as well as the Broncos do as a team. Should be a good matchup.

McGhee is not healthy. Whatever mojo the Broncos had a few weeks ago is all but gone. The fans will be into it early but it won't help. LeBeau's defense will be too much for Tebow. Redman isn't much of a step down from Mendenhall and Pittsburgh's receivers are pretty good. This game is not close. 35-6 Steelers

Steeler's front line is old and crusty.Ryan Clark's misshapen blood cells won't let him play in Denver.Polamalu has a trillion concussions by now.LBs are still hurt, and Harrison has brain damage from the roids.Mark Pouncey and Big Ben have 1 good ankle between them.Mendenhall is OUT.

Wait... what happened to Positive > Negative?This is a very negative post. We are only allowed to be postive when talking about Tebow? It's ok to trash the Steelers? Ok, I'm getting it now. I'll keep taking notes.

 

[metoo]

I'm not in the camp that says he can't do it - but he is going to need to show the ability to make some changes. He's gun shy of throwing the ball right now.That said - I think they play the Steelers tougher than most think they will

It's funny how many people seem to have their mind made up on Tebow while few other rookie QBs are as heavily scrutinized. If he doesn't improve as a passer, he won't last long except as a gimmick player and backup. But he very well could improve. It would also be nice if Denver had a legitimate #1 WR or Thomas develops into one.

Lol. There were guys here stating Tebow was greater than Cam because Tebow was winning and Cam was only putting up stats. I liked both coming into the season but Tebow has disappointed me as the season progressed. With Tebow's current skills I think a TE would be more valuable.

 

[urbanhack]

7-4 and a division title in his first year starting. No he isn't throwing for 300 yards and no he doesn't have the prettiest throwing mechanics, but last I checked the goal here was to win football games. He's absolutely done that, and with a decent but not lights-out defense.

A playoff QB <> a good QB...Trent DilferShaun KingRex GrossmanJim MillerKordell StewartTommy MaddoxStan Humphries...all bad QBs who led their teams to the playoffs.(We can even throw Kyle Orton in there too if you like.)

Remember all the hype and publicity those guys got???I have some great memories.

 

[SacramentoBob]

Anyone got a list of QBs that took their team to a division title within 2 years?

I think the immortal Shaun King and Rex Grossman make that list.

King went 10-6 year 2. Close, but no division title.Grossman - not close, sorry.

10-6 would've won the division for the Broncos and maybe a #3 seed. So any QB who led their team to at least 8-8 in their first two years qualifies.

10-6 wouldn't have won the division for the Broncos since they weren't in the NFC Central in 2000. Sorry.

You're wrong. Sorry.

 

[SacramentoBob]

FreeBagel gonna admit he was wrong now?

 

[shader]

Here is what Tebow needs:

1. An off-season of work.

2. More weapons around him. You'd have to think Brandon Lloyd would have really been helpful to him this year.

I think the Broncos will do that this off-season. They kind of have to. But they also need to draft a QB. It would be irresponsible not to. Why? Because Tebow hasn't proven anything. As much as I defended him a month ago, I have to criticize him now. He has gotten worse, and those that said the NFL would figure him out are looking smarter week after week.

Give Tebow the job and the first teams reps all off-season. But if he's still putting up 6-22 performances and 50 yards passing in 2012, in a league that is allowing passing yards in a historical manner, than he needs to hit the bench and be a goalline specialist.

He doesn't have to be Drew Brees. But he does need to at least be decent.

 

[ivnabru]

Steeler's front line is old and crusty.Ryan Clark's misshapen blood cells won't let him play in Denver.Polamalu has a trillion concussions by now.LBs are still hurt, and Harrison has brain damage from the roids.Mark Pouncey and Big Ben have 1 good ankle between them.Mendenhall is OUT.

....Steelers still win. What's that tell your about your Tebow?

Ben is a lot better than Tebow, but if you switched those 2 guys and left the rest of both teams the same the line would be a lot closer. Even with the Steelers injuries. The Steelers have a way better defense, better skill players and imo a better OLine (with Denver hurt) although that's something that can be debated Denver's OLine is pretty good.So it doesn't really say a lot one way or the other.

 

[FavreCo]

lolFavreco

LOL at AmosMoses.

 

[AmosMoses]

There is no way to defend how bad Tebow looked today, but keep in mind that the Chiefs defense played lights out under Crennel. Heck, they held the Packers to only 14 points (a team that averaged 36 points per game in their other 15 games), so struggling against that defense isn't exactly shameful. Either way, I expect the Broncos to run all day against the Steelers next week. Pittsburgh's run defense hasn't been as impenetrable as in years past, so I think they'll have some success. Enough to win? Not sure, but it sure be another low-scoring, boring game.

It's pretty ironic that this exact finish 4 seasons ago got Skeletor canned but is being celebrated now.

Who is celebrating it?

I expect them to run all day against the Steelers, too. For about 2.4 yards per carry. Teams don't make a good living lining up against the Steelers a running it down their throat.

Generally speaking, that is true, but the few teams the Steelers played this year that can actually run the ball well did pretty well against them - Houston ran it all over them; Jones-Drew had a good day against them; Ray Rice ran it all over them in week 1 and would have statistically as well in the 2nd Pit/Balt game had that TD run on the first play of the game not been wiped out by a bogus holding call; SF had a poor YPC against them, but still got 100 as a team against them. And none of those teams run the ball as well as the Broncos do as a team. Should be a good matchup.

McGhee is not healthy. Whatever mojo the Broncos had a few weeks ago is all but gone. The fans will be into it early but it won't help. LeBeau's defense will be too much for Tebow. Redman isn't much of a step down from Mendenhall and Pittsburgh's receivers are pretty good. This game is not close. 35-6 Steelers

Steeler's front line is old and crusty.Ryan Clark's misshapen blood cells won't let him play in Denver.Polamalu has a trillion concussions by now.LBs are still hurt, and Harrison has brain damage from the roids.Mark Pouncey and Big Ben have 1 good ankle between them.Mendenhall is OUT.

Wait... what happened to Positive > Negative?This is a very negative post. We are only allowed to be postive when talking about Tebow? It's ok to trash the Steelers? Ok, I'm getting it now. I'll keep taking notes.

What does infer mean?

 

[Two Deep]

lolFavreco

LOL at AmosMoses.

The one thing I can say is AmosMoses is still in here taking his lumps. Schnikes and FreeBagel must be in witness protection. They have given up on the Tebow. Hell I'll even give him a very slim chance if Pitts. play like they did yesterday.

 

[moleculo]

Clayton: Jags like Broncos' OC

January, 2, 2012

By Bill Williamson

Not that the Broncos’ recent offensive efforts have helped him, but Denver offensive coordinator Mike McCoy is getting some recognition.

ESPN’s John Clayton reported that Jacksonville has sought permission to talk to McCoy about its vacant head-coaching job. There are several candidates for the job and McCoy is not considered a frontrunner at this point. If he is interviewed, it will be after the Broncos’ season is over. Denver hosts Pittsburgh in a wild-card game Sunday.

McCoy has been credited with adjusting his offense to Tim Tebow, enjoying success after changing philosophies during the season. However, Tebow and the offense have slumped during a three-game losing skid.

Even if McCoy doesn’t get the Jacksonville job, the fact that there is interest in him will help him down the road when other jobs open in coming years.

part of a package deal to move Tebow to JAX?

 

[Two Deep]

Clayton: Jags like Broncos' OC

January, 2, 2012

By Bill Williamson

Not that the Broncos’ recent offensive efforts have helped him, but Denver offensive coordinator Mike McCoy is getting some recognition.

ESPN’s John Clayton reported that Jacksonville has sought permission to talk to McCoy about its vacant head-coaching job. There are several candidates for the job and McCoy is not considered a frontrunner at this point. If he is interviewed, it will be after the Broncos’ season is over. Denver hosts Pittsburgh in a wild-card game Sunday.

McCoy has been credited with adjusting his offense to Tim Tebow, enjoying success after changing philosophies during the season. However, Tebow and the offense have slumped during a three-game losing skid.

Even if McCoy doesn’t get the Jacksonville job, the fact that there is interest in him will help him down the road when other jobs open in coming years.

part of a package deal to move Tebow to JAX?

That would be a financial boon at least in the short term for Jacksonville. Tebow would certainly fill the stadium for awhile.

 

[GeauxTigers]

I was on the Tebow bandwagon but I'm seriously thinking of jumping off. He needs to make quicker decisions when in the pocket. If you watched his late game drives earlier in the year when he was winning games, he would make a decision to either run or pass within a couple of seconds after dropping back. In the last couple of games, he would take an eternity to make a decision.

I think the Buffalo game got to his head. He seems hesitant to throw the ball because he doesn't want to throw an INT. He needs stop thinking so much and just play football. He will be out of football soon if he doesn't learn to make quicker decisions while in the pocket.

 

[TobiasFunke]

The problem is that no matter what side you are on with Tebow you are surrounded by d-bags and idiots. I mean how can you support a side when you look at the main characters:

Pro Tebow

Skip Bayless (enough said)

Peter King (becoming more delusional every week)

Pretty much every woman talking head on ESPN (I have yet to hear a logical explanation about how great he is on the field from them but can't stop telling everyone how attractive he is)

Religious conservatives who think he was sent down from heaven. Most of them haven't seen any of his play but he prays so that is enough for them

Anti Tebow

Stephen A Smith and Colin Cowherd. I mean who the #### wants to be lumped in with this phony garbage

Bill Maher and other condescending atheists

The pro and anti sides are so delusional and insane that it puts undo hate on Tebow who really has done nothing to deserve it. He is a just an average QB with a lot of heart and never quits even when his ability isn't enough most of the time.

He is below average, but the more important misconception is that he has done nothing to deserve it. He absolutely brings it on himself. Here's a thoughtful, well-written piece that explains it pretty well. This is a guy who not only goes out of his way to make his religion a public spectacle, but also spends his offseasons trying to convince strangers to abandon their own religion in favor of his particular brand of Christianity. These things don't make him a terrible human being (although I certainly think they're kind of tool-ish), but it also means it's silly to say that he "has done nothing to deserve" the criticism of him. If he had done nothing there would be nothing to criticize.

 

[munchkin]

The problem is that no matter what side you are on with Tebow you are surrounded by d-bags and idiots. I mean how can you support a side when you look at the main characters:

Pro Tebow

Skip Bayless (enough said)

Peter King (becoming more delusional every week)

Pretty much every woman talking head on ESPN (I have yet to hear a logical explanation about how great he is on the field from them but can't stop telling everyone how attractive he is)

Religious conservatives who think he was sent down from heaven. Most of them haven't seen any of his play but he prays so that is enough for them

Anti Tebow

Stephen A Smith and Colin Cowherd. I mean who the #### wants to be lumped in with this phony garbage

Bill Maher and other condescending atheists

The pro and anti sides are so delusional and insane that it puts undo hate on Tebow who really has done nothing to deserve it. He is a just an average QB with a lot of heart and never quits even when his ability isn't enough most of the time.

He is below average, but the more important misconception is that he has done nothing to deserve it. He absolutely brings it on himself. Here's a thoughtful, well-written piece that explains it pretty well. This is a guy who not only goes out of his way to make his religion a public spectacle, but also spends his offseasons trying to convince strangers to abandon their own religion in favor of his particular brand of Christianity. These things don't make him a terrible human being (although I certainly think they're kind of tool-ish), but it also means it's silly to say that he "has done nothing to deserve" the criticism of him. If he had done nothing there would be nothing to criticize.

He is an Evangelical after all. It is in his DNA to do that. I don't agree with it either but it is his "calling" to do so. It's always been a buyer beware with religion no matter what the attached name; some good, some bad.

 

[Jason Wood]

From a purely theatrical standpoint, it would be awesome if the Broncos beat the Steelers.

 

[Two Deep]

Here's the Tebow problem in a nutshell: Right now, he's not good enough to be a consistently good NFL QB, but the Tebowites are loud and irrational. Tebow cannot be a back-up QB; the fans would have none of it and there would be a full-scale revolt.

There is a place for a player of Tebow's caliber and current skill-set in the NFL. Here's what he should be: back-up QB and set play specialist. He could come in for a series or two and run the read option. He would be an excellent red-zone QB. Coming in off of the bench, the emotion and leadership he brings would up-lift the entire team. As a back-up QB who was called on to keep things in check, we would be more than adequate. If Tebow does not progress as a thrower and a QB this off-season, this is what I think Tebow could be, and it would be an extremely valuable component to a dominant offense.

That won't happen though. The only way for the Tebowites to settle down is for Tebow to sustain nearly a full season of failure. He's going to be given every chance to succeed in 2012, and I think he's earned it. He's going to have a relatively long leash as well, in order to avoid a full fan revolt, it will need to be painfully obvious to 95% of the football watching population that he cannot succeed. IMO, that's the only way for Tebow to settle into the above role.

Problem is, even as poor as Tebow plays right now, he's good enough to lead an average team. IMO, he's good enough to beat bad teams but bad enough to lose to good teams. So, he's average at best. I think Tebow, coupled with an averageish defense, is good enough for an 8-8 consistent record. Outside of the AFC west, that isn't good enough to get into the playoffs consistently.

There is hope that he can improve, and then this all goes away. He has never had an off-season (signed just before camp in 2010, no off-season in 2011). He has been through three head coaches. For a player that was widely accepted as deficient, Tebow has had some remarkable obstacles in his development. It's not like he got to sit behind Brett Favre for three years with a consistent coaching staff before being handed the reigns.

I think someone should be brought in to challenge Tebow in 2012, but I don't think any free-agent would really want to subject himself to the Tebow circus. It's going to be an interesting season.

Tebow has done more damage than good with his miracle wins. He has cheated the Broncos out of a franchise QB. They were well on their way to position themselves for Luck and along comes the haphazrd Tebow and ruins everything. The only chance the Bronco's have is to play next year for the future. Trade or put Tebow on the bench, Start Quinn, lose as many games as they can, and draft Barkley. Way to go Tebow

 

[FavreCo]

From a purely theatrical standpoint, it would be awesome if the Broncos beat the Steelers.

He's going to need to in order to get this thread off of life support. A loss and I may just pull the plug.

 

[Andrew Garda]

From a purely theatrical standpoint, it would be awesome if the Broncos beat the Steelers.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

I was on the Tebow bandwagon but I'm seriously thinking of jumping off. He needs to make quicker decisions when in the pocket. If you watched his late game drives earlier in the year when he was winning games, he would make a decision to either run or pass within a couple of seconds after dropping back. In the last couple of games, he would take an eternity to make a decision.

I think the Buffalo game got to his head. He seems hesitant to throw the ball because he doesn't want to throw an INT. He needs stop thinking so much and just play football. He will be out of football soon if he doesn't learn to make quicker decisions while in the pocket.

One thing is clear, it got to someone's head. I'm just not sure if it was Tebow or Fox. Fox is a compulsive over-reactor and I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if he told Tim after the Buffalo game "don't throw it unless the guy is absolutely wiiiiide open, otherwise just throw it away".Fox has taken being conservative to a level that is almost a caricature of the idea. Punting the ball on 4th and 7 with 2:30 left and 1 timeout is borderline throwing the game. At that point, a BEST CASE scenario is that you force a 3 and out and get the ball back with less than a minute, inside your own 20, with no timeouts while needing a touchdown. What kind of a coach realistically thinks that gives them a better chance of winning than picking up a 4th and 7? What's worse is that they had nothing to lose by going for it. A first down by KC ends the game either way so field position only matters in that it puts them in FG range, which would make a TD tie it instead or win it. I just can't even begin fathom how ridiculous it was to punt the ball there. It was a complete give-up. The only thing I can comprehend is that he either thought he had more timeouts, doesn't know how long the game clock is in the NFL, or he is really, really bad at math.

Prior to the end of the game the Broncos threw 1 time on 1st and 10. Their offense is basically run up the middle over and over until we get into 3rd and long and then either run a QB draw or hope for a miracle.

Tebow came in last year under a different regime and they let him throw the ball around and he did pretty well for a rookie. Then this season started up and he again threw the ball pretty solidly in the 2nd half of the San Diego game and the end of the Miami game. Then the Detroit game happened, and instead of chalking it up to a bad game for a young QB like every other coach in the world does with young QBs, Fox panicked and went into ultra conservative mode. Denver was winning and they were giving Tebow more and more opportunities, and then the Buffalo game happened and Fox once again went into ultra over-reaction mode.

I've said since his time in Florida that Tebow's biggest hurdle in the NFL would be his weakness reading defenses, not any of the nonsense about his throwing motion. That is still the biggest thing holding him back, and this ultra conservative style of not throwing it to anyone unless they're wide open is not doing him any favors. Denver needs to drop the gimmicks and let Tebow be a normal QB with the understanding that there are going to be bumps along the way like there are for any QB. It's the same thing that I said about Reggie Bush for years (and looky looky, now that he's being used as a normal running back he's actually played very well). Maybe he will crash and burn, but at least then they'll know. The gimmicks just drag everyone along and set both Tebow and the franchise back. The only thing that Tebow has done consistently under Fox/McCoy is regress backwards. You don't have the defense to win every game 10-7 so let Tebow be a quarterback and take his lumps while actually learning, rather than take his lumps while handing the ball off or throwing it out of bounds when his receiver has a small step on the guy.

I've got no idea why people think Mike McCoy is some great offensive coordinator. It's just more NFL groupthink garbage. People give him credit for integrating Tebow's strengths like the read-option but that's a pretty simple play that was already being run in the NFL and that they run what, like 3-4 times a game? Their "option" offense is nothing more than a standard NFL offense that is absurdly run heavy. They're not running tricky running plays, they're running the same running plays that every NFL team does with the option read thrown in a couple of times a game. Further, other than Thomas the receivers all have horrific ball skills (is no one teaching these guys how to use their hands rather than their bodies?), and they quit on plays (probably because they don't expect to ever actually be thrown to). Several times in the KC game receivers quit on their routes just as the ball was being thrown. Once was Decker (though he was doubled anyway and wouldn't have come down with the ball). The other was Willis on the sidelines towards the end of the game on what would have been a huge play. It's like no one is coaching these guys and there's no accountability.

I really think that Tebow could have been a good quarterback with McDaniels because McDaniels' offense limits the necessity of being good at reading the field (which Tebow is not). He clearly has a weakness reading the field beyond what other QBs do but when you put him in an offense that makes those reads for him, his scrambling/rushing ability and playmaking ability more than make up for it. The current offense seems more designed to limit the QB as much as possible and let everyone else do most of the legwork. The problem is that "everyone else" mostly sucks on this awful team anyway so even if you don't believe in Tebow you may as well see what he can do so you can either be done with it or see if he can get better at reading defenses when he's actually given the opportunity to do it.

 

[Two Deep]

I was on the Tebow bandwagon but I'm seriously thinking of jumping off. He needs to make quicker decisions when in the pocket. If you watched his late game drives earlier in the year when he was winning games, he would make a decision to either run or pass within a couple of seconds after dropping back. In the last couple of games, he would take an eternity to make a decision.

I think the Buffalo game got to his head. He seems hesitant to throw the ball because he doesn't want to throw an INT. He needs stop thinking so much and just play football. He will be out of football soon if he doesn't learn to make quicker decisions while in the pocket.

One thing is clear, it got to someone's head. I'm just not sure if it was Tebow or Fox. Fox is a compulsive over-reactor and I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if he told Tim after the Buffalo game "don't throw it unless the guy is absolutely wiiiiide open, otherwise just throw it away".Fox has taken being conservative to a level that is almost a caricature of the idea. Punting the ball on 4th and 7 with 2:30 left and 1 timeout is borderline throwing the game. At that point, a BEST CASE scenario is that you force a 3 and out and get the ball back with less than a minute, inside your own 20, with no timeouts while needing a touchdown. What kind of a coach realistically thinks that gives them a better chance of winning than picking up a 4th and 7? What's worse is that they had nothing to lose by going for it. A first down by KC ends the game either way so field position only matters in that it puts them in FG range, which would make a TD tie it instead or win it. I just can't even begin fathom how ridiculous it was to punt the ball there. It was a complete give-up. The only thing I can comprehend is that he either thought he had more timeouts, doesn't know how long the game clock is in the NFL, or he is really, really bad at math.

Prior to the end of the game the Broncos threw 1 time on 1st and 10. Their offense is basically run up the middle over and over until we get into 3rd and long and then either run a QB draw or hope for a miracle.

Tebow came in last year under a different regime and they let him throw the ball around and he did pretty well for a rookie. Then this season started up and he again threw the ball pretty solidly in the 2nd half of the San Diego game and the end of the Miami game. Then the Detroit game happened, and instead of chalking it up to a bad game for a young QB like every other coach in the world does with young QBs, Fox panicked and went into ultra conservative mode. Denver was winning and they were giving Tebow more and more opportunities, and then the Buffalo game happened and Fox once again went into ultra over-reaction mode.

I've said since his time in Florida that Tebow's biggest hurdle in the NFL would be his weakness reading defenses, not any of the nonsense about his throwing motion. That is still the biggest thing holding him back, and this ultra conservative style of not throwing it to anyone unless they're wide open is not doing him any favors. Denver needs to drop the gimmicks and let Tebow be a normal QB with the understanding that there are going to be bumps along the way like there are for any QB. It's the same thing that I said about Reggie Bush for years (and looky looky, now that he's being used as a normal running back he's actually played very well). Maybe he will crash and burn, but at least then they'll know. The gimmicks just drag everyone along and set both Tebow and the franchise back. The only thing that Tebow has done consistently under Fox/McCoy is regress backwards. You don't have the defense to win every game 10-7 so let Tebow be a quarterback and take his lumps while actually learning, rather than take his lumps while handing the ball off or throwing it out of bounds when his receiver has a small step on the guy.

I've got no idea why people think Mike McCoy is some great offensive coordinator. It's just more NFL groupthink garbage. People give him credit for integrating Tebow's strengths like the read-option but that's a pretty simple play that was already being run in the NFL and that they run what, like 3-4 times a game? Their "option" offense is nothing more than a standard NFL offense that is absurdly run heavy. They're not running tricky running plays, they're running the same running plays that every NFL team does with the option read thrown in a couple of times a game. Further, other than Thomas the receivers all have horrific ball skills (is no one teaching these guys how to use their hands rather than their bodies?), and they quit on plays (probably because they don't expect to ever actually be thrown to). Several times in the KC game receivers quit on their routes just as the ball was being thrown. Once was Decker (though he was doubled anyway and wouldn't have come down with the ball). The other was Willis on the sidelines towards the end of the game on what would have been a huge play. It's like no one is coaching these guys and there's no accountability.

I really think that Tebow could have been a good quarterback with McDaniels because McDaniels' offense limits the necessity of being good at reading the field (which Tebow is not). He clearly has a weakness reading the field beyond what other QBs do but when you put him in an offense that makes those reads for him, his scrambling/rushing ability and playmaking ability more than make up for it. The current offense seems more designed to limit the QB as much as possible and let everyone else do most of the legwork. The problem is that "everyone else" mostly sucks on this awful team anyway so even if you don't believe in Tebow you may as well see what he can do so you can either be done with it or see if he can get better at reading defenses when he's actually given the opportunity to do it.

They call the plays because of Tebow not in spite of Tebow.

 

[tom22406]

Maybe the coaching staff already knows what they have with Tebow and this is the reason for the conservative gameplan they trot out week after week?

Bottom line is Fox doesn't trust Tebow throwing the ball so since he is a good runner they switched over to this system to give them the best chance to win.