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Tim Tebow - 8.17.21 Waived By Jacksonville (2 Viewers)

'FavreCo said:
Colin Cowherd is laying it out exactly how it is right now. Pretty much stating my case for me.Just threw up a chart of Tebow vs a player with better stats over the last 4 games. John Skelton.
Really? Better stats the last 4 games? You sure you want to go with that?Here are some of Skelton's stats over the last 4 games:TD/INT: 4 TDs to 8 INTsPasser rating last 4 games: 10.5, 30, 106.5, 79.3Now Tebow:TD/INT: 4 TD but only 1 INT (so equal TDs but 7 less INTs)Passer rating 95.4, 149.3, 68.3, 80.5Those number don't even take into account Tebow's 50 rushes for 222 yards (4.44 YPC - which is good...for a good RB) and 2 TDs over that span.Sorry - your (and Cowdung's) assertion that Skelton has been better over the last 4 games is simply not even close to being true by virtually any measurement you want to use. You might want to do some research before blindly agreeing with talking heads (especially the moronic ones).Oh and we can do the same not including the last game and going back a week - but here's a hint: those 10.5 and 30.0 passer ratings for Skelton get included either way (in case this post "chart" was posted prior to this weekends games).
Skelton just wins.
Agreed. Who cares about stats, he might just have that X factor the same way Tebow does. Now Tebow hasn't cost his team a chance to win a game like Skelton did during the first game vs SF. But SF is a tough out and a game like that can happen to anyone (Eli Manning anyone. Hell Brady had a 4 INT game earlier this year).I like Tebow a little more than Skelton right now because he is tougher to defend and far more careful with the ball (Patrick Peterson has bailed Ari out a couple times over the last five games) but over the long term I am not confident projecting Tebow to have a better career.Skelton could be the real deal. So could Tebow. Then again maybe neither of them are, I need to see what happens when they both have the opportunity to have a full training camp under their belt as the unquestioned starter.
 
'FavreCo said:
Colin Cowherd is laying it out exactly how it is right now. Pretty much stating my case for me.Just threw up a chart of Tebow vs a player with better stats over the last 4 games. John Skelton.
Really? Better stats the last 4 games? You sure you want to go with that?Here are some of Skelton's stats over the last 4 games:TD/INT: 4 TDs to 8 INTsPasser rating last 4 games: 10.5, 30, 106.5, 79.3Now Tebow:TD/INT: 4 TD but only 1 INT (so equal TDs but 7 less INTs)Passer rating 95.4, 149.3, 68.3, 80.5Those number don't even take into account Tebow's 50 rushes for 222 yards (4.44 YPC - which is good...for a good RB) and 2 TDs over that span.Sorry - your (and Cowdung's) assertion that Skelton has been better over the last 4 games is simply not even close to being true by virtually any measurement you want to use. You might want to do some research before blindly agreeing with talking heads (especially the moronic ones).Oh and we can do the same not including the last game and going back a week - but here's a hint: those 10.5 and 30.0 passer ratings for Skelton get included either way (in case this post "chart" was posted prior to this weekends games).
Skelton just wins.
We are not going to go down the "record of teams they've played"...again. How do you type when your hands must be getting tired from grasping at straws? Keep up the fine work. :thumbup:
So 'he just wins' is only good when the QB is The Tebow. Ok.
Stop fishing. First off, I never said that.Secondly, you were the one who started spouting off made up stats about Skelton...until they were totally proven to be based in error - then (as you have done countless times throughout your hate-induced fishing trip in this thread) refused to acknowledge any possibility that you were mistaken, instead trying once again to change the subject in a feeble attempt to cover the fact that you were, once again, completely mistaken in your assertion.There are two people on my ignore list in 6 and half years. Your well thought out arguments, pleasent disposition and obvious open-mindedness and willingness to admit you are mistaken - especially in the face are extreme factual information - are strongly giving me leanings to adding a third. Have a great season.
Boy somebody has the attitude of a 4 year old boy who wet his pants.
 
Tebow didn't play bad yesterday. He played like Tebow. Denver has been winning by play calling to his strenghts. Tebow just doesn't have the skill set to air it out and win games right now. I'm not sure he ever will. Bottomline, I think he is a great story and exceeding expectations, but it would be a mistake for Denver to build their franchise around him and his skillset.
That's ridiculous. He played a good game. They were out of the game because the defense gave up 40 points to Tom Brady. Yes, you're right, Tebow isn't going to put up 40 points. If the defense plays a little better, Tebow Time would have been a bunch more interesting.Drives me bananas when I see those comments about "it's not Tebow that wins these games, it's the defense." My ###. That's the same defense that gave up, what, 35 points to a Ponder-led and Peterson-less Vikings offense? They're a better than average defense at best. They're not lights-out.
So Tebow's fumble had no affect on the game? The defense had held the Patriots to a tying field goal following Ball's fumble. Tebow then coughed up the ball on the next series resulting in a TD putting the Patriots ahead. Was that all on the defense. The same defense that had been setting him up for victory in the previous weeks? Sure, the defense gave up points against the Vikings but they also scored the first TD in the game and intercepted Ponder in OT to set up the winning FG. They held SD and the Jets to 13 pts; Von Miller and the defense have been integral to the team's winning streak.No defense, no Prater no Tebow Time.
 
'FavreCo said:
Colin Cowherd is laying it out exactly how it is right now. Pretty much stating my case for me.Just threw up a chart of Tebow vs a player with better stats over the last 4 games. John Skelton.
Really? Better stats the last 4 games? You sure you want to go with that?Here are some of Skelton's stats over the last 4 games:TD/INT: 4 TDs to 8 INTsPasser rating last 4 games: 10.5, 30, 106.5, 79.3Now Tebow:TD/INT: 4 TD but only 1 INT (so equal TDs but 7 less INTs)Passer rating 95.4, 149.3, 68.3, 80.5Those number don't even take into account Tebow's 50 rushes for 222 yards (4.44 YPC - which is good...for a good RB) and 2 TDs over that span.Sorry - your (and Cowdung's) assertion that Skelton has been better over the last 4 games is simply not even close to being true by virtually any measurement you want to use. You might want to do some research before blindly agreeing with talking heads (especially the moronic ones).Oh and we can do the same not including the last game and going back a week - but here's a hint: those 10.5 and 30.0 passer ratings for Skelton get included either way (in case this post "chart" was posted prior to this weekends games).
Skelton just wins.
We are not going to go down the "record of teams they've played"...again. How do you type when your hands must be getting tired from grasping at straws? Keep up the fine work. :thumbup:
So 'he just wins' is only good when the QB is The Tebow. Ok.
Stop fishing. First off, I never said that.Secondly, you were the one who started spouting off made up stats about Skelton...until they were totally proven to be based in error - then (as you have done countless times throughout your hate-induced fishing trip in this thread) refused to acknowledge any possibility that you were mistaken, instead trying once again to change the subject in a feeble attempt to cover the fact that you were, once again, completely mistaken in your assertion.There are two people on my ignore list in 6 and half years. Your well thought out arguments, pleasent disposition and obvious open-mindedness and willingness to admit you are mistaken - especially in the face are extreme factual information - are strongly giving me leanings to adding a third. Have a great season.
Boy somebody has the attitude of a 4 year old boy who wet his pants.
Did he at least leave his ball?
 
Boy somebody has the attitude of a 4 year old boy who wet his pants.
:lmao:It'll be nice when ya'll are back in school after winter break and the adults can talk.It's all good - I'm done with the stinky bait in this thread. Hope you do well on your finals. :thumbup:
 
For a guy who many think is :fishing: FarveCo is certainly landing a lot of whoppers in his boat.
I'm just looking for 50 pages of Red Skelton, his own song played continuously on ESPN along with 24x7 coverage of him and a spokesperson like Skip Baseless screaming at the top of his lungs. :)
 
So 'he just wins' is only good when the QB is The Tebow. Ok.
Stop fishing. First off, I never said that.

Secondly, you were the one who started spouting off made up stats about Skelton...until they were totally proven to be based in error - then (as you have done countless times throughout your hate-induced fishing trip in this thread) refused to acknowledge any possibility that you were mistaken, instead trying once again to change the subject in a feeble attempt to cover the fact that you were, once again, completely mistaken in your assertion.
:thumbup:
Skip Baseless and many have (blabbered that The tebow 'just wins'.) Double G: The Skelton stats are fact buddy. Go watch ESPN. You cherry picks some stats that favored The Tebow and blabbered about them. What ones did I state? Go re-read my original post. It states that Cowherd showed stats of an anonymous QB that were better that The Tebow as starter. You don't even know what those stats were.

 
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Is anyone really arguing that Skelton is better than Tebow? I actually consider myself a Skelton supporter, always liked the kids game. However, he is not Tim Tebow. Skelton is better than Tebow at forcing the ball to his guys. I think this is a result of the coaching fox has given to tebow. However, tebows ability to take over the game running the ball is unparelled. Watch his first run in the New England and the 20 yarder against the Jets. I don't think that Vick, VY, or even Cam have the same ability to shed tackles and get upfield. Does he have alot to work on? Abso####inglutely! There is ALOT to build on, though. I would rather have Tebow than some mediocre journeyman, I.e Orton or Cassel. I would also rather him than Andy Dalton to be honest, I think his ceiling is much, much higher. If the goal of an NFL team is to win the superbowl, than ceiling is what you are shooting for. I think when his career is all said and done, he will have a superbowl ring.

 
So 'he just wins' is only good when the QB is The Tebow. Ok.
Stop fishing. First off, I never said that.

Secondly, you were the one who started spouting off made up stats about Skelton...until they were totally proven to be based in error - then (as you have done countless times throughout your hate-induced fishing trip in this thread) refused to acknowledge any possibility that you were mistaken, instead trying once again to change the subject in a feeble attempt to cover the fact that you were, once again, completely mistaken in your assertion.
:thumbup:
Skip Baseless and many have (blabbered that The tebow 'just wins'.) Double G: The Skelton stats are fact buddy. Go watch ESPN. You cherry picks some stats that favored The Tebow and blabbered about them. What ones did I state? Go re-read my original post. It states that Cowherd showed stats of an anonymous QB that were better that The Tebow as starter. You don't even know what those stats were.
I'd be curious to see the stats.Here are Tebow's stats vs Skelton's in the last 4 games.

Skelton averages:

202 pass yds, 1 TD, 2 INTs. 12.5 rush yds. 6.96 ypa.

Tebow averages:

194 pass yds, 1 TD, .25 INTs, 55.5 rush yds, .5 rush TDs, 8.25 ypa.

They both have 1 lost fumble in that 4 game span.

So Tebow has 8 less passing yards per game, 1.75 less INTs per game, 43 more rush yds per game, .5 more rush TDs per game and 1.3 more yards per pass attempt. IMO these and QB Rating are the only stats that really matter. But QB rating is something I don't know how to calculate.

I know who I'd rather have.

What stats do we need to see to make Skelton look better over 4 games? Completion percentage and passing yards? Maybe passes attempted?

 
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So 'he just wins' is only good when the QB is The Tebow. Ok.
Stop fishing. First off, I never said that.

Secondly, you were the one who started spouting off made up stats about Skelton...until they were totally proven to be based in error - then (as you have done countless times throughout your hate-induced fishing trip in this thread) refused to acknowledge any possibility that you were mistaken, instead trying once again to change the subject in a feeble attempt to cover the fact that you were, once again, completely mistaken in your assertion.
:thumbup:
Skip Baseless and many have (blabbered that The tebow 'just wins'.) Double G: The Skelton stats are fact buddy. Go watch ESPN. You cherry picks some stats that favored The Tebow and blabbered about them. What ones did I state? Go re-read my original post. It states that Cowherd showed stats of an anonymous QB that were better that The Tebow as starter. You don't even know what those stats were.
I'd be curious to see the stats.Here are Tebow's stats vs Skelton's in the last 4 games.

Skelton averages:

202 pass yds, 1 TD, 2 INTs. 12.5 rush yds. 6.96 ypa.

Tebow averages:

194 pass yds, 1 TD, .25 INTs, 55.5 rush yds, .5 rush TDs, 8.25 ypa.

They both have 1 lost fumble in that 4 game span.

So Tebow has 8 less passing yards per game, 1.75 less INTs per game, 43 more rush yds per game, .5 more rush TDs per game and 1.3 more yards per pass attempt. IMO these and QB Rating are the only stats that really matter. But QB rating is something I don't know how to calculate.

I know who I'd rather have.

What stats do we need to see to make Skelton look better over 4 games? Completion percentage and passing yards? Maybe passes attempted?
In addition, let's play guess the QB:QB A's #1 receiver is Demaryius Thomas

QB B's #1 receiver is Larry Fitzgerald

 
Colin Cowherd is laying it out exactly how it is right now. Pretty much stating my case for me.Just threw up a chart of Tebow vs a player with better stats over the last 4 games. John Skelton.
Really? Better stats the last 4 games? You sure you want to go with that?Here are some of Skelton's stats over the last 4 games:TD/INT: 4 TDs to 8 INTsPasser rating last 4 games: 10.5, 30, 106.5, 79.3Now Tebow:TD/INT: 4 TD but only 1 INT (so equal TDs but 7 less INTs)Passer rating 95.4, 149.3, 68.3, 80.5Those number don't even take into account Tebow's 50 rushes for 222 yards (4.44 YPC - which is good...for a good RB) and 2 TDs over that span.Sorry - your (and Cowdung's) assertion that Skelton has been better over the last 4 games is simply not even close to being true by virtually any measurement you want to use. You might want to do some research before blindly agreeing with talking heads (especially the moronic ones).Oh and we can do the same not including the last game and going back a week - but here's a hint: those 10.5 and 30.0 passer ratings for Skelton get included either way (in case this post "chart" was posted prior to this weekends games).
Best part of this thread is watching FarveCo get owned over and over yet he keeps coming back for more. :lmao:
 
The Cam Newton one being a classic this year. All that guy does is lose.
So Cam breaks rookie Qb record and record and elevates the worst nfl offense to a top 7 position...and he sucks because all he does is lose.Tebow has horrible stats and elevates the 2nd worst team to the playoff contender...and he sucks because all he does is win.You're contradicting yourself in different threads.
So sCam Newton loses weekly and he's great?So The Tebow plays on a winning team weekly so he's great? See how it works both ways?I got over 1 page of reading to catch up on and Skip Baseless is a monumental moron just for the record.
I never argued Tebow was great and agreed with many of your thoughts in this thread (the play of the defense, lucky breaks, schedule). Personally I don't think win/lose is the determining factor in evaluating QBs, especially young QBs. I was just pointing out how your key arguement in the Cam thread was being used here by the other side. Now that Cam has won 3 of the last 4 is he good?
 
So 'he just wins' is only good when the QB is The Tebow. Ok.
Stop fishing. First off, I never said that.

Secondly, you were the one who started spouting off made up stats about Skelton...until they were totally proven to be based in error - then (as you have done countless times throughout your hate-induced fishing trip in this thread) refused to acknowledge any possibility that you were mistaken, instead trying once again to change the subject in a feeble attempt to cover the fact that you were, once again, completely mistaken in your assertion.
:thumbup:
Skip Baseless and many have (blabbered that The tebow 'just wins'.) Double G: The Skelton stats are fact buddy. Go watch ESPN. You cherry picks some stats that favored The Tebow and blabbered about them. What ones did I state? Go re-read my original post. It states that Cowherd showed stats of an anonymous QB that were better that The Tebow as starter. You don't even know what those stats were.
I'd be curious to see the stats.Here are Tebow's stats vs Skelton's in the last 4 games.

Skelton averages:

202 pass yds, 1 TD, 2 INTs. 12.5 rush yds. 6.96 ypa.

Tebow averages:

194 pass yds, 1 TD, .25 INTs, 55.5 rush yds, .5 rush TDs, 8.25 ypa.

They both have 1 lost fumble in that 4 game span.

So Tebow has 8 less passing yards per game, 1.75 less INTs per game, 43 more rush yds per game, .5 more rush TDs per game and 1.3 more yards per pass attempt. IMO these and QB Rating are the only stats that really matter. But QB rating is something I don't know how to calculate.

I know who I'd rather have.

What stats do we need to see to make Skelton look better over 4 games? Completion percentage and passing yards? Maybe passes attempted?
Why only the last four games? Why not the five that Skelton got the majority of starts? Or why not all the games where they have received the majority of snaps.
 
For a guy who many think is :fishing: FarveCo is certainly landing a lot of whoppers in his boat.
I'm just looking for 50 pages of Red Skelton, his own song played continuously on ESPN along with 24x7 coverage of him and a spokesperson like Skip Baseless screaming at the top of his lungs. :)
Perhaps when he has two national championships, a Heisman trophy and millions of adoring followers before entering the NFL that will happen. Otherwise your comment is kind of bizarre. Tebow isn't being hyped just because of his NFL resume, he had tons going for him long before he took his first NFL snap. Not so for Skelton. It is unfair to compare them based upon popularity, Skelton doesn't have a chance and, frankly, doesn't deserve one yet. His entire body of work (not just NFL) pales when compared to Tebow's.You know this so why make silly assertions as if you are sincere?
 
Double G: The Skelton stats are fact buddy. Go watch ESPN. You cherry picks some stats that favored The Tebow and blabbered about them. What ones did I state? Go re-read my original post. It states that Cowherd showed stats of an anonymous QB that were better that The Tebow as starter. You don't even know what those stats were.
Somehow I missed this little glimmer of brilliance. Here you go:
Colin Cowherd is laying it out exactly how it is right now. Pretty much stating my case for me.

Just threw up a chart of Tebow vs a player with better stats over the last 4 games. John Skelton.
Which is the post I responded to with this:
Really? Better stats the last 4 games? You sure you want to go with that?

Here are some of Skelton's stats over the last 4 games:

TD/INT: 4 TDs to 8 INTs

Passer rating last 4 games: 10.5, 30, 106.5, 79.3

Now Tebow:

TD/INT: 4 TD but only 1 INT (so equal TDs but 7 less INTs)

Passer rating 95.4, 149.3, 68.3, 80.5

Those number don't even take into account Tebow's 50 rushes for 222 yards (4.44 YPC - which is good...for a good RB) and 2 TDs over that span.

Sorry - your (and Cowdung's) assertion that Skelton has been better over the last 4 games is simply not even close to being true by virtually any measurement you want to use. You might want to do some research before blindly agreeing with talking heads (especially the moronic ones).

Oh and we can do the same not including the last game and going back a week - but here's a hint: those 10.5 and 30.0 passer ratings for Skelton get included either way (in case this post "chart" was posted prior to this weekends games).
I tried to type slow, so you would understand. Apparently that didn't help.
 
This thread now reminds me of the food fight in Animal House except no one is having nearly as much fun.

I was going to make a long post about Tebow's improvement, a few areas that are still bad where he hasn't improved and about the team in general with him leading it - but I fear it wouldn't really be read or it'd be glossed over for the much more inflammatory responses where we can call each other names.

And for the record - my mom's basement is quite nicely furnished. Six months there with no bills, home cooked meals, all laundry done and shopping as well - hey... maybe I should give her a call and see if she'd take me back! To all you "basementers" (new word) - stand proud! :excited: (I envy you in a way...)

 
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so here's what I think is going on here...IMO, Tebow (rightfully) doesn't trust his own accuracy or timing. He is careful with the ball, though, and won't risk forcing something that isn't there. There are three ramifications: (1) he needs a bigger window to pull the trigger on timing routes,(2) on broken plays, he tends to hold onto the ball longer, waiting for someone to become more open, and (3) He's likely to put the ball in an extreme spot where no one can get it, but if anyone could, it would be his guy. These (IMO) is what is going on for all of the "OMG 3rd row" passes we see a couple of times a game.

When play-action is working, he get's the bigger windows. This is why he was having early success vs NE. The Bronco running game is pretty sick right now, especially with the read-option making play-action viable out of shotgun. That does a tremendous job of freezing LB's from dropping into their zones, and let Damaryius Thomas get behind them pretty easily. When the Broncos were down big, play-action was no longer realistic and the windows got smaller.

So, if Tebow doesn't see what he needs immediately, he holds the ball way too long and starts running around. That's not necessarily a terrible thing - he's as good running around avoiding pressure as anyone in the league right now, including Roethlesberger and Vick.

When he runs around, though, he can have a tough time if he is blitzed appropriately like NE did. In the 4th quarter, they typically rushed 5 guys, meaning Tebow was going to feel pressure and bail from the pocket, but they also blitzed to contain. Tebow only scrambled for a big gain a handful of times; he wasn't killin it with blitz beaters.

I think that these are the types of things that can be addressed in an off-season. Improved footwork will lead to increased accuracy. Increased trust w/ receivers will lead to not needing as large of a window before he pulls the trigger.

He's not where he needs to be, by NFL QB standards. All of Tebows critics (including FavreCo) are exactly right - he isn't that guy right now. However, I think that all of his issues are fixable. They haven't been properly addressed in the past because until July of 2011, Tebow hasn't had NFL caliber QB instruction (QB coach for 2010 was Ben McDaniels, a HS coach...followed by lockout). It should not have been a surprise to anyone that he would struggle coming into 2011.

 
The anti-Tebow crowd has been pretty reasonable after the loss, so kudos on that.

I thought Tebow played just OK in the game. Obviously the 3 turnovers (one of which he contributed to) in a row really set them back, but I thought he should have taken more shots downfield once he got behind. I know it goes against the anti-turnover mentality that he and Fox have developed but there comes a point where, when the opposing team is starting a 4th string WR at safety, you need to just put the ball out there and let your WR make a play on it.

He used to do it all the time so I'm not sure if it's a change in mentality brought on by the coaches, him being determined not to turn it over, or losing Lloyd, who used to be his go to guy in those situations. When he's gotten behind in the past (Houston/SD last year, 1st SD game this year) he's been willing to give people a shot downfield and it's worked out well. I don't think he trusts the current WRs in coverage (especially Decker, who seems only capable of catching a pass if there's no defender close enough nearby to sneeze on him), but he seems to be gaining some trust in Demaryius so maybe he'll get back to it.
See it is statements like these that make me question the objectivity of the Tebow supporters. How many drops do you think Decker has year to date? What if I told you he has less than Demaryius even though he has played more games. In fact Decker has 4 drops on 90 targets, Thomas has 5 drops on 55 targets and both have a catch percentage under 50 in Thomas case it is 46%. So somewhere between the few drops and the catches the other targeted balls are flying off target. That is on The Tebow
 
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For a guy who many think is :fishing: FarveCo is certainly landing a lot of whoppers in his boat.
I'm just looking for 50 pages of Red Skelton, his own song played continuously on ESPN along with 24x7 coverage of him and a spokesperson like Skip Baseless screaming at the top of his lungs. :)
Perhaps when he has two national championships, a Heisman trophy and millions of adoring followers before entering the NFL that will happen. Otherwise your comment is kind of bizarre. Tebow isn't being hyped just because of his NFL resume, he had tons going for him long before he took his first NFL snap. Not so for Skelton. It is unfair to compare them based upon popularity, Skelton doesn't have a chance and, frankly, doesn't deserve one yet. His entire body of work (not just NFL) pales when compared to Tebow's.You know this so why make silly assertions as if you are sincere?
Basically what Cowherd was shwoing was that the hype based on a handfull of fluke wins is ridiculous. Their statements of 'all he does is win' and look at him go in the 4th Q vs applied equally to a guy named John Skelton.
 
Double G: The Skelton stats are fact buddy. Go watch ESPN. You cherry picks some stats that favored The Tebow and blabbered about them. What ones did I state? Go re-read my original post. It states that Cowherd showed stats of an anonymous QB that were better that The Tebow as starter. You don't even know what those stats were.
Somehow I missed this little glimmer of brilliance. Here you go:
Colin Cowherd is laying it out exactly how it is right now. Pretty much stating my case for me.

Just threw up a chart of Tebow vs a player with better stats over the last 4 games. John Skelton.
Which is the post I responded to with this:
Really? Better stats the last 4 games? You sure you want to go with that?

Here are some of Skelton's stats over the last 4 games:

TD/INT: 4 TDs to 8 INTs

Passer rating last 4 games: 10.5, 30, 106.5, 79.3

Now Tebow:

TD/INT: 4 TD but only 1 INT (so equal TDs but 7 less INTs)

Passer rating 95.4, 149.3, 68.3, 80.5

Those number don't even take into account Tebow's 50 rushes for 222 yards (4.44 YPC - which is good...for a good RB) and 2 TDs over that span.

Sorry - your (and Cowdung's) assertion that Skelton has been better over the last 4 games is simply not even close to being true by virtually any measurement you want to use. You might want to do some research before blindly agreeing with talking heads (especially the moronic ones).

Oh and we can do the same not including the last game and going back a week - but here's a hint: those 10.5 and 30.0 passer ratings for Skelton get included either way (in case this post "chart" was posted prior to this weekends games).
I tried to type slow, so you would understand. Apparently that didn't help.
Once again you are picking the stats that you want that favor The Tebow, not the ones Cowherd displayed on TV and while I stated last 4 games, it was actually something along the lines of starting record this year.

 
Once again you are picking the stats that you want that favor The Tebow, not the ones Cowherd displayed on TV and while I stated last 4 games, it was actually something along the lines of starting record this year.
why don't you do all of us a favor and post exactly what stats you are referencing. I'd like to see this. If you can statistically show Skelton is a better QB than Tebow, do it. :popcorn:eta: career stats for games started for both Tebow and Skelton:
Code:
games	cmp	att	cmp %	yd	td	int	rate	y/a	att	yd	y/a	tdskelton	9	144	283	0.51	1680	7	10	62.7	5.9	23	127	5.5	0tebow	12	143	290	0.49	2057	14	5	81.6	7.1	130	772	5.9	7
 
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The Cam Newton one being a classic this year. All that guy does is lose.
So Cam breaks rookie Qb record and record and elevates the worst nfl offense to a top 7 position...and he sucks because all he does is lose.Tebow has horrible stats and elevates the 2nd worst team to the playoff contender...and he sucks because all he does is win.You're contradicting yourself in different threads.
So sCam Newton loses weekly and he's great?So The Tebow plays on a winning team weekly so he's great? See how it works both ways?I got over 1 page of reading to catch up on and Skip Baseless is a monumental moron just for the record.
I never argued Tebow was great and agreed with many of your thoughts in this thread (the play of the defense, lucky breaks, schedule). Personally I don't think win/lose is the determining factor in evaluating QBs, especially young QBs. I was just pointing out how your key arguement in the Cam thread was being used here by the other side. Now that Cam has won 3 of the last 4 is he good?
Looking at his game by game stats, it seems that when he puts the ball up more than they run, they lose. Beating Houston, he threw for 150 yards. Beating Indy, TB? How hard is that? But he didn't pass for many yards either. Specifically vs Detroit, team was up 14+ points and blew it because they did not control the clock when they have 2 excellent RB's averaging 5.1 & 4.7 ypc. Of course that is the fault of horrid coaching. The D isn't helping but there is no excuse to pass so much with a 14+ point lead, then come back the next series and throw only burn a minute off the clock with 3 of 4 plays being a pass.
 
I personally am not convinced that Tebow will have a long run of NFL success but no doubt he has been scoring very well in terms of fantasy football for one of my dynasty squads. I am concerned about how well he can hold up over several years with his style of play. I'm wondering if for dynasty purposes if he is a buy/sell/hold after this season.

 
so here's what I think is going on here...IMO, Tebow (rightfully) doesn't trust his own accuracy or timing. He is careful with the ball, though, and won't risk forcing something that isn't there. There are three ramifications: (1) he needs a bigger window to pull the trigger on timing routes,(2) on broken plays, he tends to hold onto the ball longer, waiting for someone to become more open, and (3) He's likely to put the ball in an extreme spot where no one can get it, but if anyone could, it would be his guy. These (IMO) is what is going on for all of the "OMG 3rd row" passes we see a couple of times a game.When play-action is working, he get's the bigger windows. This is why he was having early success vs NE. The Bronco running game is pretty sick right now, especially with the read-option making play-action viable out of shotgun. That does a tremendous job of freezing LB's from dropping into their zones, and let Damaryius Thomas get behind them pretty easily. When the Broncos were down big, play-action was no longer realistic and the windows got smaller.So, if Tebow doesn't see what he needs immediately, he holds the ball way too long and starts running around. That's not necessarily a terrible thing - he's as good running around avoiding pressure as anyone in the league right now, including Roethlesberger and Vick.When he runs around, though, he can have a tough time if he is blitzed appropriately like NE did. In the 4th quarter, they typically rushed 5 guys, meaning Tebow was going to feel pressure and bail from the pocket, but they also blitzed to contain. Tebow only scrambled for a big gain a handful of times; he wasn't killin it with blitz beaters.I think that these are the types of things that can be addressed in an off-season. Improved footwork will lead to increased accuracy. Increased trust w/ receivers will lead to not needing as large of a window before he pulls the trigger. He's not where he needs to be, by NFL QB standards. All of Tebows critics (including FavreCo) are exactly right - he isn't that guy right now. However, I think that all of his issues are fixable. They haven't been properly addressed in the past because until July of 2011, Tebow hasn't had NFL caliber QB instruction (QB coach for 2010 was Ben McDaniels, a HS coach...followed by lockout). It should not have been a surprise to anyone that he would struggle coming into 2011.
Good breakdown. :thumbup: :thumbup: Despite the improvement Tebow has shown as a passer, there is still plenty of room for improvement, and it definitely helps that the Broncos have become a team with a good (and sometimes dominant) defense and a great running game. It is hard enough to be a young QB in the NFL without having the pressure of knowing that you have to score 30 points a game to win games. A guy like Cam Newton has played really well this year, all things considered, but is only 5-9 as a starter because his team's defense is not good. I can't wait to see how Tebow does when he has more weapons to throw to. An offseason with him as the number 1 guy should do wonders for him and the offense. They say he is historically a terrible practice QB, but if Elway puts in a lot of time to helping him, as he said he will do, that can only help. And the fact that he has almost every intangible necessary already means he only has to get better as a passer and better at reading defenses. And he doesn't even have to become a great passer. If he becomes just an average passer, when you take into account everything else he can do and brings to the table, he can be an above average NFL QB. One thing is for sure: if he never makes it there, it won't be for lack of effort.
 
Once again you are picking the stats that you want that favor The Tebow, not the ones Cowherd displayed on TV and while I stated last 4 games, it was actually something along the lines of starting record this year.
why don't you do all of us a favor and post exactly what stats you are referencing. I'd like to see this. If you can statistically show Skelton is a better QB than Tebow, do it. :confused:
One was completion % in games he was the starter. The other was winning % as a starter and I don't remember the other 2. I'll admit that Cowherd was cherry picking stats the way Double G has. Cowherd was simply making a point about the ridiculous hype around a guy who stinks it up for 3 Q's almost every week against some marginal teams. I'm not saying Skelton is great. He may not even be good. He does just win though. Kinda like Alex Smith. That guy can't be stopped.
 
John Skelton's passer rating is below those of such studs as Josh Freeman, Rex Grossman and Colt McCoy.

Meanwhile, Tebow's passer rating is ahead of both Andy Dalton's and Cam Newton's, despite Dalton and Cam both receiving high praise for their play this year.

:popcorn:

 
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'FavreCo said:
'moleculo said:
'FavreCo said:
Once again you are picking the stats that you want that favor The Tebow, not the ones Cowherd displayed on TV and while I stated last 4 games, it was actually something along the lines of starting record this year.
why don't you do all of us a favor and post exactly what stats you are referencing. I'd like to see this. If you can statistically show Skelton is a better QB than Tebow, do it. :confused:
One was completion % in games he was the starter. The other was winning % as a starter and I don't remember the other 2. I'll admit that Cowherd was cherry picking stats the way Double G has. Cowherd was simply making a point about the ridiculous hype around a guy who stinks it up for 3 Q's almost every week against some marginal teams. I'm not saying Skelton is great. He may not even be good. He does just win though. Kinda like Alex Smith. That guy can't be stopped.
to your credit, you replied before I had updated my question. Here are full career stats for games started for Skelton and Tebow.
Code:
games   cmp     att     cmp %   yd      td      int     rate    y/a     att     yd      y/a     td skelton 9       144     283     0.51    1680    7       10      62.7    5.9     23      127     5.5     0 tebow   12      143     290     0.49    2057    14      5       81.6    7.1     130     772     5.9     7
completion percentage: Skelton has a lead by 2%. you've got me there. winning percentage as a starter: Skelton: 6-3, Tebow: 8-4. identical. On a per game basis, Skelton has thrown for more yards, sure...by 15 yards per game. When you couple in rushing yards though, it isn't even close. When you consider TD vs int, the comparison ends pretty quickly.Note: I am not cherry picking here. These are complete stats, courtesy of pro-football-reference.com.eta: double-G wasn't cherry picking either...those are the stats.double ETA:skeltons 6 career wins (in games he started...i.e. the stats above) came against the following:2010 Broncos (4-12)2010 cowboys (6-10)Rams (2-12)Eagles (6-8)Rams (2-12)Browns (4-10)Tebow has, at least, beaten the 8-6 Jets, 7-7 raiders, 7-7 Chargers, and 7-7 Bears (sans QB and RB but still a solid defense).
 
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For a guy who many think is :fishing: FarveCo is certainly landing a lot of whoppers in his boat.
I'm just looking for 50 pages of Red Skelton, his own song played continuously on ESPN along with 24x7 coverage of him and a spokesperson like Skip Baseless screaming at the top of his lungs. :)
Perhaps when he has two national championships, a Heisman trophy and millions of adoring followers before entering the NFL that will happen. Otherwise your comment is kind of bizarre. Tebow isn't being hyped just because of his NFL resume, he had tons going for him long before he took his first NFL snap. Not so for Skelton. It is unfair to compare them based upon popularity, Skelton doesn't have a chance and, frankly, doesn't deserve one yet. His entire body of work (not just NFL) pales when compared to Tebow's.You know this so why make silly assertions as if you are sincere?
Basically what Cowherd was shwoing was that the hype based on a handfull of fluke wins is ridiculous. Their statements of 'all he does is win' and look at him go in the 4th Q vs applied equally to a guy named John Skelton.
I think Cowherd fails to realize that he isn't getting hyped because of a few fluke wins. He's getting hyped because he's Tim Freaking Tebow.
 
This thread now reminds me of the food fight in Animal House except no one is having nearly as much fun.

I was going to make a long post about Tebow's improvement, a few areas that are still bad where he hasn't improved and about the team in general with him leading it - but I fear it wouldn't really be read or it'd be glossed over for the much more inflammatory responses where we can call each other names.

And for the record - my mom's basement is quite nicely furnished. Six months there with no bills, home cooked meals, all laundry done and shopping as well - hey... maybe I should give her a call and see if she'd take me back! To all you "basementers" (new word) - stand proud! :excited: (I envy you in a way...)
I for one would love to read your analysis, and I'm sure many others in the thread would as well. It's really just a small minority of posters involved the ballyhoo (don't you just love that word?). While that small minority may be posting far more than the rest of us, I think there is still room for intelligent analysis/discussion in this thread..ETA: tomfoolery, another badass word, and also apt for some of the "behavior" in this thread

 
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This thread now reminds me of the food fight in Animal House except no one is having nearly as much fun.

I was going to make a long post about Tebow's improvement, a few areas that are still bad where he hasn't improved and about the team in general with him leading it - but I fear it wouldn't really be read or it'd be glossed over for the much more inflammatory responses where we can call each other names.

And for the record - my mom's basement is quite nicely furnished. Six months there with no bills, home cooked meals, all laundry done and shopping as well - hey... maybe I should give her a call and see if she'd take me back! To all you "basementers" (new word) - stand proud! :excited: (I envy you in a way...)
I for one would love to read your analysis, and I'm sure many others in the thread would as well. It's really just a small minority of posters involved the ballyhoo (don't you just love that word?). While that small minority may be posting far more than the rest of us, I think there is still room for intelligent analysis/discussion in this thread..
+1 put me in this camp. I'd love to see your analysis.
 
This thread now reminds me of the food fight in Animal House except no one is having nearly as much fun.

I was going to make a long post about Tebow's improvement, a few areas that are still bad where he hasn't improved and about the team in general with him leading it - but I fear it wouldn't really be read or it'd be glossed over for the much more inflammatory responses where we can call each other names.

And for the record - my mom's basement is quite nicely furnished. Six months there with no bills, home cooked meals, all laundry done and shopping as well - hey... maybe I should give her a call and see if she'd take me back! To all you "basementers" (new word) - stand proud! :excited: (I envy you in a way...)
I for one would love to read your analysis, and I'm sure many others in the thread would as well. It's really just a small minority of posters involved the ballyhoo (don't you just love that word?). While that small minority may be posting far more than the rest of us, I think there is still room for intelligent analysis/discussion in this thread..
+1 put me in this camp. I'd love to see your analysis.
Hoss, I'll do even better than this...I'll read your analysis and call you names so both bases are covered.
 
John Skelton's passer rating is below those of such studs as Josh Freeman, Rex Grossman and Colt McCoy.

Meanwhile, Tebow's passer rating is ahead of both Andy Dalton's and Cam Newton's, despite Dalton and Cam both receiving high praise for their play this year.

:popcorn:
Tebow has significantly fewer attempts per game than any other starter in the league. It's not his fault he hasn't needed to throw more but he's averaging 7 attempts fewer than the next lowest guy. He's also averaging one of the lower ypa's in the league (21 of 32). And his completion percent is dead last (2% lower than Gabbert).He does average over 8 rush attempts per game. That's similar to Newton, who is destroying him in most passing statistics. Tebow may improve as he's shown potential but right now most indicators folks use to predict success in this league point to Tebow being a fluke. He's a young guy so he's not locked into these numbers. But looking at the numbers and watching him play makes me think this guy has an extremely limited shelf life.

I agree if he fails it won't be for a lack of effort.

 
This thread now reminds me of the food fight in Animal House except no one is having nearly as much fun.

I was going to make a long post about Tebow's improvement, a few areas that are still bad where he hasn't improved and about the team in general with him leading it - but I fear it wouldn't really be read or it'd be glossed over for the much more inflammatory responses where we can call each other names.

And for the record - my mom's basement is quite nicely furnished. Six months there with no bills, home cooked meals, all laundry done and shopping as well - hey... maybe I should give her a call and see if she'd take me back! To all you "basementers" (new word) - stand proud! :excited: (I envy you in a way...)
I for one would love to read your analysis, and I'm sure many others in the thread would as well. It's really just a small minority of posters involved the ballyhoo (don't you just love that word?). While that small minority may be posting far more than the rest of us, I think there is still room for intelligent analysis/discussion in this thread..
+1 put me in this camp. I'd love to see your analysis.
Hoss, I'll do even better than this...I'll read your analysis and call you names so both bases are covered.
You know how sometimes you get all amped up to do something, roll up your sleeves and get hunkered down for the long haul (hunker is another cool word) and then you lose the mood? Well, I lost the mood. In my earlier post I had just been looking at stats and reading about the Broncos for an hour or so - eating Doritos and drinking a Rockstar. Then I read the thread and got discouraged and decided that playing some Xbox with a buddy from back home seemed waaaay more appealing.

Now, it's 4am. I'm up doing work and don't have much time. I will try to contribute with 2 pretty cool little tidbits that I found out this past week, though, about the Broncos:

[*]This was just over a week ago, actually, but I work with a guy on and off who's acquaintances with John Fox. He went to dinner with Fox (and others) and the next day he and I were talking about it. The subject of the new Broncos offense came up and he said Fox laughed and said "I'd run this offense 'till the day I die, if I could! I love it." Apparantly he was never against running it, as was reported widely in the media (outside Denver). As soon as he decided Tebow would be starting he and McCoy starting brainstorming. It took a few weeks to really get it ready but when it was they implemented it full bore. Which brings me to my next interesting little nugget I learned this past week...

[*]Listening to local talk radio the other day and a guy called in from Atlanta. He now lives in Denver. He was talking about when Fox was still coaching at Carolina and about the tiime the Falcons met Fox's Panthers in the playoffs. According to this guy Fox's offense that he's using in Denver now is not new to his teams. He's wanted to try it for years and he actually did against Atlanta. He said when the Panthers came to town they threw everyone in Atlanta off by putting the RB at the QB position for pretty much the entire game. He said it was similar to the Wildcat but even more so like the offense he's running now with Tebow. He said the RB was tossing the ball around and running almost like an option offense. Seems McCoy was the QB coach back then (I think) and he and Fox, again, tried something radical from the norm. I just looked for some video showing what the offense looked like but couldn't find any. I find this pretty interesting

If anyone remembers this game I'd love to hear your input. I'm quite busy right now with work and can't research stats of the game or look for any video evidence. If I could find some plays from that game I'd LOVE to watch it. If not I'll try to find something about it later today or tomorrow.

Commence the name calling! I'll start!

NITWIT!

 
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It was debated recently between Cris Carter​ and Skip Bayless​ about how much Tim Tebow actually inspires his team. You are around the team. Do you feel, and have you heard from individual players, that Tebow truly inspires the team? As a season ticket-holding fan, he inspires me.

-- Todd Mather, Oakley, Calif.

Todd - I heard a talk-show host who loathes Tebow, and has backed himself into an indefensible corner, say that a lot of players — particularly the wide receivers and tight ends and offensive linemen — don't want to play with Tebow. It's total ... I can't say the word I want to ... let me think ... malarkey (that's not strong enough). The players like Tebow; they are inspired by him; they want to play with him; they've witnessed what he can accomplish.

Let me give you one example: When Demaryius Thomas dropped passes, especially one big throw, in the Bears game, Tebow went over to him on the bench, put an arm around him and told Thomas not to worry, that he would make the game-winning catch and be the hero. It was not the game-winner, but Thomas caught the touchdown pass that allowed the Broncos to be in a position to win.

The offensive linemen like Tebow because they've become the aggressors, not the fortress. Instead of being on their heels all the time pass-blocking, they blast off and hit somebody. The defensive players like Tebow because they're off the field for longer periods of time (look at where the Broncos are among leaders in time of possession since Tebow took over).

Special team players have told me they love Tebow. The younger players especially like him because they've either come into the league with him, practiced with him (as backups) or because they want to be part of a winning team. Champ Bailey wants to be in the playoffs again. You think he and Brian Dawkins aren't loving Tebow for what's happening? The Tebow-haters have to find something new because he's proving he can play, he can win and he can get the Broncos to the playoffs. So they go for the players don't like playing with it. Malarkey.

I've talked to enough players to know, unlike radio fools, that this is a close-knit team now, a team that was in disarray at the beginning of the season. As I've written, they got rid of the only anti-Tebow player — Brandon Lloyd​ — and how's that working out for Lloyd? Trust me. If he had stayed, he would have caught big passes and gotten just as big a contract as a free agent. People know he can catch whether he was in St. Louis or Denver. It just amazes me how, when you've been proved wrong, you just continue to wallow in mud.

Todd, here's the biggest point of all that nobody, nobody, has talked or written about, and I was close to writing the column a week or so ago, and held off so I could talk to more players. The Broncos are a very strong Christian team. It's not just Tebow. The emphasis is his religious beliefs. But Brian Dawkins is just as faith-based as Tebow. Elvis Dumervil​. Britton Colquitt. Willis McGahee. Demaryius Thomas made it clear when he was drafted about his religious commitment.

I would guess that 60 percent to 70 percent of the players, if not more, reflect America's core belief in God. This is not a religious discussion. This is just statement of fact. The players judge Tebow on his play as a quarterback, his leadership qualities, his personality and as a person and, even, his religious beliefs. One player told me that when a player needs help in his charity work, Tebow is his go-to guy, and Tebow always helps in some way.

The players see that every game Tebow hosts a kid who has a devastating disease. You don't think that doesn't affect them? They see how positive he is. He doesn't rip anybody. He's a guy who supports everyone around him. He reminds them all the time of how they can win the game in the fourth quarter. He inspired them in a speech the night before a game. They see how hard he works before, during and after practice.

This is not Kyle Orton laughing at Tebow when he ran wind sprints full out. One of the major reasons Orton was cut was he had turned off the Broncos. He showed up late, wore a stocking cap in practices, was one of the first to leave and didn't really care after he was removed. Josh McDaniels had told me more than a year ago that Orton wasn't, despite what people thought, a leader on or off the field. Sure, he was elected captain from the offense. Who you going to elect? Offensive tackles are not elected captains. People made a big deal out of it.

I guarantee you Tebow will be a captain next year. Yes, he inspires the players. Yes, he inspires the public. I see hundreds of fathers and sons wearing their Tebow jerseys together. I get the letters from mothers wanting me to have Tebow call their daughters. I hear, as you do, everybody in airports and gas stations asking about Tebow. He has doubters and haters because of his religious views, his unorthodox play, his goodie-goodie attitude (why would anybody hate that?) and because he can't throw.

Has anybody seen Tebow throw in the last two games? Has anybody seen him throw in the fourth quarters? Some people in America just want to hate on good values and hard work and successful people. Look around at the parks in major cities. Too many young people in Tebow's generation feel entitled. Give me a job; I don't want to earn it; I'm owed.

Tebow doesn't believe he's owed anything. He's working hard to prove he can be a quality quarterback in the NFL. Look at the results. An 8-4 record in his dozen starts, a 7-2 record this year. His numbers keep improving. The team didn't beat the Patriots. Hey, the Patriots are a better team. The Broncos were a garbage team before Tebow became quarterback. Everybody knows that. Now they are a playoff team.

Tim Tebow should inspire everybody. He does inspire the players. And this is fun, Todd.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year. Peace and love.

Read more: Woody's Mailbag: Denver Broncos making music history this season - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/woodysmailbag/ci_19595911#ixzz1hHVd9NPr

Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse

 
This thread now reminds me of the food fight in Animal House except no one is having nearly as much fun.

I was going to make a long post about Tebow's improvement, a few areas that are still bad where he hasn't improved and about the team in general with him leading it - but I fear it wouldn't really be read or it'd be glossed over for the much more inflammatory responses where we can call each other names.

And for the record - my mom's basement is quite nicely furnished. Six months there with no bills, home cooked meals, all laundry done and shopping as well - hey... maybe I should give her a call and see if she'd take me back! To all you "basementers" (new word) - stand proud! :excited: (I envy you in a way...)
I for one would love to read your analysis, and I'm sure many others in the thread would as well. It's really just a small minority of posters involved the ballyhoo (don't you just love that word?). While that small minority may be posting far more than the rest of us, I think there is still room for intelligent analysis/discussion in this thread..
+1 put me in this camp. I'd love to see your analysis.
Hoss, I'll do even better than this...I'll read your analysis and call you names so both bases are covered.
You know how sometimes you get all amped up to do something, roll up your sleeves and get hunkered down for the long haul (hunker is another cool word) and then you lose the mood? Well, I lost the mood. In my earlier post I had just been looking at stats and reading about the Broncos for an hour or so - eating Doritos and drinking a Rockstar. Then I read the thread and got discouraged and decided that playing some Xbox with a buddy from back home seemed waaaay more appealing.

Now, it's 4am. I'm up doing work and don't have much time. I will try to contribute with 2 pretty cool little tidbits that I found out this past week, though, about the Broncos:

[*]This was just over a week ago, actually, but I work with a guy on and off who's acquaintances with John Fox. He went to dinner with Fox (and others) and the next day he and I were talking about it. The subject of the new Broncos offense came up and he said Fox laughed and said "I'd run this offense 'till the day I die, if I could! I love it." Apparantly he was never against running it, as was reported widely in the media (outside Denver). As soon as he decided Tebow would be starting he and McCoy starting brainstorming. It took a few weeks to really get it ready but when it was they implemented it full bore. Which brings me to my next interesting little nugget I learned this past week...

[*]Listening to local talk radio the other day and a guy called in from Atlanta. He now lives in Denver. He was talking about when Fox was still coaching at Carolina and about the tiime the Falcons met Fox's Panthers in the playoffs. According to this guy Fox's offense that he's using in Denver now is not new to his teams. He's wanted to try it for years and he actually did against Atlanta. He said when the Panthers came to town they threw everyone in Atlanta off by putting the RB at the QB position for pretty much the entire game. He said it was similar to the Wildcat but even more so like the offense he's running now with Tebow. He said the RB was tossing the ball around and running almost like an option offense. Seems McCoy was the QB coach back then (I think) and he and Fox, again, tried something radical from the norm. I just looked for some video showing what the offense looked like but couldn't find any. I find this pretty interesting

If anyone remembers this game I'd love to hear your input. I'm quite busy right now with work and can't research stats of the game or look for any video evidence. If I could find some plays from that game I'd LOVE to watch it. If not I'll try to find something about it later today or tomorrow.

Commence the name calling! I'll start!

NITWIT!
good stuff, and agreed that Fox loves to run; just looking at what he did in Carolina is evidence of this. Regarding running the wildcat vs Atlanta - I don't remember that game, but here's the cbssports.com write up.
 
This thread now reminds me of the food fight in Animal House except no one is having nearly as much fun.

I was going to make a long post about Tebow's improvement, a few areas that are still bad where he hasn't improved and about the team in general with him leading it - but I fear it wouldn't really be read or it'd be glossed over for the much more inflammatory responses where we can call each other names.

And for the record - my mom's basement is quite nicely furnished. Six months there with no bills, home cooked meals, all laundry done and shopping as well - hey... maybe I should give her a call and see if she'd take me back! To all you "basementers" (new word) - stand proud! :excited: (I envy you in a way...)
I for one would love to read your analysis, and I'm sure many others in the thread would as well. It's really just a small minority of posters involved the ballyhoo (don't you just love that word?). While that small minority may be posting far more than the rest of us, I think there is still room for intelligent analysis/discussion in this thread..
+1 put me in this camp. I'd love to see your analysis.
Hoss, I'll do even better than this...I'll read your analysis and call you names so both bases are covered.
You know how sometimes you get all amped up to do something, roll up your sleeves and get hunkered down for the long haul (hunker is another cool word) and then you lose the mood? Well, I lost the mood. In my earlier post I had just been looking at stats and reading about the Broncos for an hour or so - eating Doritos and drinking a Rockstar. Then I read the thread and got discouraged and decided that playing some Xbox with a buddy from back home seemed waaaay more appealing.

Now, it's 4am. I'm up doing work and don't have much time. I will try to contribute with 2 pretty cool little tidbits that I found out this past week, though, about the Broncos:

[*]This was just over a week ago, actually, but I work with a guy on and off who's acquaintances with John Fox. He went to dinner with Fox (and others) and the next day he and I were talking about it. The subject of the new Broncos offense came up and he said Fox laughed and said "I'd run this offense 'till the day I die, if I could! I love it." Apparantly he was never against running it, as was reported widely in the media (outside Denver). As soon as he decided Tebow would be starting he and McCoy starting brainstorming. It took a few weeks to really get it ready but when it was they implemented it full bore. Which brings me to my next interesting little nugget I learned this past week...

[*]Listening to local talk radio the other day and a guy called in from Atlanta. He now lives in Denver. He was talking about when Fox was still coaching at Carolina and about the tiime the Falcons met Fox's Panthers in the playoffs. According to this guy Fox's offense that he's using in Denver now is not new to his teams. He's wanted to try it for years and he actually did against Atlanta. He said when the Panthers came to town they threw everyone in Atlanta off by putting the RB at the QB position for pretty much the entire game. He said it was similar to the Wildcat but even more so like the offense he's running now with Tebow. He said the RB was tossing the ball around and running almost like an option offense. Seems McCoy was the QB coach back then (I think) and he and Fox, again, tried something radical from the norm. I just looked for some video showing what the offense looked like but couldn't find any. I find this pretty interesting

If anyone remembers this game I'd love to hear your input. I'm quite busy right now with work and can't research stats of the game or look for any video evidence. If I could find some plays from that game I'd LOVE to watch it. If not I'll try to find something about it later today or tomorrow.

Commence the name calling! I'll start!

NITWIT!
Lame...make that a very lame post by a fan boy. You should have stayed in your mommy's basement playing xbox.regarding 1 - Fits right in with Fox's history. My issue with the offense is that unless you have a top notch defense, you won't have the firepower to contend with teams like NO, GB, and NE. The other problem will be that Elway see's things differently than Fox. According to the local radio hosts, Fox is a great person to go to dinner with.

regarding 2 - I watched that game and don't remember Deangelo being much of a passing threat. Weinke at his best would be comparable to Tebow at his worst. It was basically a wildcat offense that caught atlanta by surprise and a desparation move. Fox didn't take it anywhere else beyyond that game. Fox also didn't pull it back out when he had Edwards on the roster last year. If you find video, you'll be disappointed because it doesn't resemble anything like what's going on in Denver now.

 
'BassNBrew said:
Lame...make that a very lame post by a fan boy. You should have stayed in your mommy's basement playing xbox.

regarding 1 - Fits right in with Fox's history. My issue with the offense is that unless you have a top notch defense, you won't have the firepower to contend with teams like NO, GB, and NE. The other problem will be that Elway see's things differently than Fox. According to the local radio hosts, Fox is a great person to go to dinner with.

regarding 2 - I watched that game and don't remember Deangelo being much of a passing threat. Weinke at his best would be comparable to Tebow at his worst. It was basically a wildcat offense that caught atlanta by surprise and a desparation move. Fox didn't take it anywhere else beyyond that game. Fox also didn't pull it back out when he had Edwards on the roster last year. If you find video, you'll be disappointed because it doesn't resemble anything like what's going on in Denver now.
Re: the bolded above: I don't think that's accurate. Elway has said that his priority to rebuilding the Broncos is through defense first. Elway knows that a QB's best friend is a running game and a solid D. Consider Elways first few moves as VP: (1) hire Fox, a defensive coach. (2) get Champ Bailey signed... Champ was on his way out of town under the McD regime, Elway made sure re-signing Champ was a top prioroty. (3) draft Von Miller.From yesterday's Denver Post:

To the surprise of many, Elway, the greatest offensive player in franchise history, believed the blueprint for winning again was to focus on defense. Trying to outpace everyone just wasn't going to work, he said.

"I think that you have to have a special guy to outscore everybody, and if you look at where we were with Kyle, we didn't have the Tom Bradys or the Peyton Mannings or the Drew Breeses, those are the guys that outscore everybody, and there's three or four of those guys in the league and they're very difficult to find," Elway said.

...

"And then I also thought, having gone to the games, that we had lost a lot of the home-field advantage, and I remember that when I played here, we had a great home-field advantage. But it was usually because we were so good on defense."
You are absolutely right though... a solid D is necessary to make this work, and the D isn't there. It's a heck of a lot closer than it was last year though, and things are trending in the right direction.
 
'rascal said:
... they got rid of the only anti-Tebow player — Brandon Lloyd​ ...
Wait a minute: has anyone ever seen Brandon Lloyd and FavreCo in the same room? :unsure: ...

Moleculo, Denver's defense doesn't look like it's hurting to me. The Patriots don't sniff 41 points without four Bronco turnovers.

 
'rascal said:
... they got rid of the only anti-Tebow player — Brandon Lloyd​ ...
Wait a minute: has anyone ever seen Brandon Lloyd and FavreCo in the same room? :unsure: ...

Moleculo, Denver's defense doesn't look like it's hurting to me. The Patriots don't sniff 41 points without four Bronco turnovers.
Look at what Minnesota did with a rookie QB and no ADP. This defense has some holes for sure. DL is much better than last year, but they are still suceptable to runs right up the gut. Goodman has been suspect. Dawkins is great for leadership and making the big hit, but he's a liability in coverage. The D that you need to make an extremely run-heavy, ball control offense work at a championship level is what I'm talking about...that's what Denver needs. I'm talking about what SF is doing this year... what Pittsburgh and Baltimore do almost everywhere...that kind of stifling, run stuffing, get after the QB type of D is what Denver needs to be able to turn this team into a perennial contender. That's what I'm talking about when I say the D isn't there.

 
'rascal said:
It was debated recently between Cris Carter​ and Skip Bayless​ about how much Tim Tebow actually inspires his team. You are around the team. Do you feel, and have you heard from individual players, that Tebow truly inspires the team? As a season ticket-holding fan, he inspires me.

-- Todd Mather, Oakley, Calif.

Todd - I heard a talk-show host who loathes Tebow, and has backed himself into an indefensible corner, say that a lot of players — particularly the wide receivers and tight ends and offensive linemen — don't want to play with Tebow. It's total ... I can't say the word I want to ... let me think ... malarkey (that's not strong enough). The players like Tebow; they are inspired by him; they want to play with him; they've witnessed what he can accomplish.

Let me give you one example: When Demaryius Thomas dropped passes, especially one big throw, in the Bears game, Tebow went over to him on the bench, put an arm around him and told Thomas not to worry, that he would make the game-winning catch and be the hero. It was not the game-winner, but Thomas caught the touchdown pass that allowed the Broncos to be in a position to win.

The offensive linemen like Tebow because they've become the aggressors, not the fortress. Instead of being on their heels all the time pass-blocking, they blast off and hit somebody. The defensive players like Tebow because they're off the field for longer periods of time (look at where the Broncos are among leaders in time of possession since Tebow took over).

Special team players have told me they love Tebow. The younger players especially like him because they've either come into the league with him, practiced with him (as backups) or because they want to be part of a winning team. Champ Bailey wants to be in the playoffs again. You think he and Brian Dawkins aren't loving Tebow for what's happening? The Tebow-haters have to find something new because he's proving he can play, he can win and he can get the Broncos to the playoffs. So they go for the players don't like playing with it. Malarkey.

I've talked to enough players to know, unlike radio fools, that this is a close-knit team now, a team that was in disarray at the beginning of the season. As I've written, they got rid of the only anti-Tebow player — Brandon Lloyd​ — and how's that working out for Lloyd? Trust me. If he had stayed, he would have caught big passes and gotten just as big a contract as a free agent. People know he can catch whether he was in St. Louis or Denver. It just amazes me how, when you've been proved wrong, you just continue to wallow in mud.

Todd, here's the biggest point of all that nobody, nobody, has talked or written about, and I was close to writing the column a week or so ago, and held off so I could talk to more players. The Broncos are a very strong Christian team. It's not just Tebow. The emphasis is his religious beliefs. But Brian Dawkins is just as faith-based as Tebow. Elvis Dumervil​. Britton Colquitt. Willis McGahee. Demaryius Thomas made it clear when he was drafted about his religious commitment.

I would guess that 60 percent to 70 percent of the players, if not more, reflect America's core belief in God. This is not a religious discussion. This is just statement of fact. The players judge Tebow on his play as a quarterback, his leadership qualities, his personality and as a person and, even, his religious beliefs. One player told me that when a player needs help in his charity work, Tebow is his go-to guy, and Tebow always helps in some way.

The players see that every game Tebow hosts a kid who has a devastating disease. You don't think that doesn't affect them? They see how positive he is. He doesn't rip anybody. He's a guy who supports everyone around him. He reminds them all the time of how they can win the game in the fourth quarter. He inspired them in a speech the night before a game. They see how hard he works before, during and after practice.

This is not Kyle Orton laughing at Tebow when he ran wind sprints full out. One of the major reasons Orton was cut was he had turned off the Broncos. He showed up late, wore a stocking cap in practices, was one of the first to leave and didn't really care after he was removed. Josh McDaniels had told me more than a year ago that Orton wasn't, despite what people thought, a leader on or off the field. Sure, he was elected captain from the offense. Who you going to elect? Offensive tackles are not elected captains. People made a big deal out of it.

I guarantee you Tebow will be a captain next year. Yes, he inspires the players. Yes, he inspires the public. I see hundreds of fathers and sons wearing their Tebow jerseys together. I get the letters from mothers wanting me to have Tebow call their daughters. I hear, as you do, everybody in airports and gas stations asking about Tebow. He has doubters and haters because of his religious views, his unorthodox play, his goodie-goodie attitude (why would anybody hate that?) and because he can't throw.

Has anybody seen Tebow throw in the last two games? Has anybody seen him throw in the fourth quarters? Some people in America just want to hate on good values and hard work and successful people. Look around at the parks in major cities. Too many young people in Tebow's generation feel entitled. Give me a job; I don't want to earn it; I'm owed.

Tebow doesn't believe he's owed anything. He's working hard to prove he can be a quality quarterback in the NFL. Look at the results. An 8-4 record in his dozen starts, a 7-2 record this year. His numbers keep improving. The team didn't beat the Patriots. Hey, the Patriots are a better team. The Broncos were a garbage team before Tebow became quarterback. Everybody knows that. Now they are a playoff team.

Tim Tebow should inspire everybody. He does inspire the players. And this is fun, Todd.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year. Peace and love.

Read more: Woody's Mailbag: Denver Broncos making music history this season - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/woodysmailbag/ci_19595911#ixzz1hHVd9NPr

Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse
Great write up except for the bolded. No need to bag on young people today who are in fact facing the worst economy in 75 years and who are in fact being disinvested in by our government. They are being left holding the bag for huge national debt. I won't get into the politics except to say that I am an Occupier, I have seen the devastation that has been wrought upon people through no fault of their own, and they are not asking for anything other than justice. They want to see criminal corporate executives who created this economic crisis out of greed, who then fed at the public feeding trough, to be prosecuted for crimes and to be regulated. They want to see the fat cats who use their money and influence to control our government stopped from using their money to control our government. They want to see us taking policies that help real people--better education, home mortgage modification, and maintaining Social Security and Medicare (which we pay for--it isn't something we are asking someone else to give us). Those are christian expectations. Christians believe that children and the elderly should be taken of. They believe that greed is sinful. They believe in basic fairness.
 
'rascal said:
... they got rid of the only anti-Tebow player — Brandon Lloyd​ ...
Wait a minute: has anyone ever seen Brandon Lloyd and FavreCo in the same room? :unsure: ...

Moleculo, Denver's defense doesn't look like it's hurting to me. The Patriots don't sniff 41 points without four Bronco turnovers.
How many times did the patriots punt?
 

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