Timdraft # 2 (2 Viewers)

[charvik]

Just like with Best drink, there are a LOT of omissions from the drafted list, along with picks that should get 0 pts. Some because they aren't martial arts movies at all, some because they are horrible movies, that while they have some martial arts elements aren't close to what the movie category really is about. One or two are just bad because they flat out suck.

Not going to be as wordy in writeups in this category.

Why wasn't any of the following picked?

[*]Come Drink with Me

[*]Knockabout

[*]The Master of the Flying Guillotine

[*]One-Armed Swordsman

[*]Prodigal Son

[*]Legend of the Fox

[*]Clan of the White Lotus

[*]Five Deadly Venoms

[*]A Touch of Zen

[*]The Crippled Avengers

[*]Police Story

[*]Project A

[*]Duel to the Death

[*]Zatoichi

[*]Tai Chi Master

[*]Zu: Warriors From Magic Mountain

[*]Shaolin Iron Eagle

[*]Iron Monkey

[*]36 Crazy Fists

[*]Fearless Hyena - Bad/nothing special storyline, but incredibly choreographed

[*]Drunken Master

[*]The Shaolin Temple

[*]Chocolate

[*]Wu Lang ba gua gun

[*]Five Finger of Death - Classic non-Hong Kong

[*]Lone Wolf McQuade - While not the best movie, any list without Chuck is just laughable

[*]Black Fist - at least for people not familiar with Chinese film

[*]13 Assasins - for a new movie

[*]Akira

[*]Fearless

The bolded would be top picks, with the exception of Drunken Master, which is an example of the second installment being better than the original. Drunken Master would still have gotten top 3 placement.

There are even a couple of bad movies that should have made the list:

[*]Bloodsport - Yes, it's bad, but it's also a classic. Monkey Man!!!!

[*]Ong Bak - No Muay Thai on the list drafted. Pity.

[*]Karate Kid - kidding!!!, I'm actually thrilled nobody picked it, but surprised too, since The Last Dragon got picked.

[*]Way of the Dragon - Come On!!! Bruce Lee fighting Chuck Norris in the final battle, and nobody is drafting it??

[*]Blind Fury - Rutger Hauer bastardizes the blind swordsman

Kudos that none of the following were drafted:

Karate Kid, 1,2,3,4,2010 and however many else

The Last Samurai

Any of the 50 Matrixes

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

I see a few "zero-pointers" in the Martial Arts list.

 

[charvik]

:

8 pts - Kung Fu Panda - picked 19.07

I don't really know what to say about this one... I tried to tell the drafter to re-pick, but he didn't want to.

 

[charvik]

Annoying, just horribly bad, abominations, or just generally not fitting what I was looking for:

9 pts - The Last Dragon - picked 24.09

Oh my, I had forgotten about this "movie". This is cheesy and bad beyond anything imaginable, and I was considering dropping it below Kung Fu Panda just because it gave me nightmares... It avoided the last place because Vanity looked HOT in it... (it was the 80s) but oof, this is a bad, bad "movie"

 

[charvik]

10 pts - Kill Bill Vol. 1 - picked 22.08

Not a fan of revenge porn/exploitation. Like with most Tarantino productions it has been done before, and has been done better and more interesting (he just happens to have a bigger production, with a Hollywood hype machine behind him). If I have to see something like this I might as well watch 'Thriller' This would've ended up in the last slot, weren't it for the absolute crap of the 2 lesser scores.

Just because there's a katana or two doesn't mean it's a martial arts movie.

 

[charvik]

11 pts - Kung Fu Hustle - picked 6.05

Can't stand it... There's a lot of comedic choices in the genre, often times parodies of themselves, so there's no need for a specifically assigned movie for it. This feels like a money grab for audiences not too familiar with the genre.

 

[charvik]

12 pts - The Raid - picked 16.06

It's not a bad movie at all, and it does have fight scenes, but I am struggling to place it above some of the more iconic selections above. Interesting choice, but I felt there were sooooo many other better choices available.

 

[charvik]

I could go either way with the following 5... I had to go with my own enjoyment at the time of original viewing

13 pts - IP Man - picked 20.02

14 pts - Enter the Dragon - picked 3.10

I don't care that it was deemed "culturally significant" in the United States, or that it was selected to be preserved by the National Film Registry. What matters to me as outlined above in my criteria is the fighting and the story.

15 pts - Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon - picked 18.12

I love this movie, but probably for very different reasons than the broader audience. The fly-by-wire is usually a challenging concept, but it's done really well and is fitting with the story line here.

16 pts - Fist of Legend - picked 20.11

Might be better in some aspects, but still a remake.

17 pts - Chinese Connection (Fists of Fury) - picked 21.13

Getting the nod because of the incredible scene in the dojo against 7 foes. <Will post clip when I can>

 

[charvik]

Real Martial Arts movies, or movies done well, containing martial art:

18 pts - Seven Samurai - picked 20.13

Cinematic masterpiece, and a good example of martial arts used right.

Kambei Shimada: Go to the north. The decisive battle will be fought there.

Gorobei Katayama: Why didn't you build a fence there?

Kambei Shimada: A good fort needs a gap. The enemy must be lured in. So we can attack them. If we only defend, we lose the war.

19 pts - The 36th Chamber of Shaolin - picked 20.03Clasic movie, and incredibly influential for the entire genre.

20 pts - Legend of Drunken Master - picked 13.04

This is a personal favorite, that has been watched numerous times. IMO Jackie Chan's 2nd best movie after Project A. Fun, fresh and incredibly well choreographed.

 

[charvik]

20 pts - Legend of Drunken Master - picked 13.04 (Tremendous Upside)

19 pts - The 36th Chamber of Shaolin - picked 20.03 (rikishiboy)

18 pts - Seven Samurai - picked 20.13 (jwb)

17 pts - Chinese Connection (Fists of Fury) - picked 21.13 (AcerFC)

16 pts - Fist of Legend - picked 20.11 (wbaaoz)

15 pts - Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon - picked 18.12 (BobbyLayne)

14 pts - Enter the Dragon - picked 3.10 (Doug B)

13 pts - IP Man - picked 20.02 (Mister CIA)

12 pts - The Raid - picked 16.06 (Usual21)

11 pts - Kung Fu Hustle - picked 6.05 (Mrs. Rannous)

10 pts - Kill Bill Vol. 1 - picked 22.08 (Timschochet)

9 pts - The Last Dragon - picked 24.09 (tish156)

8 pts - Kung Fu Panda - picked 19.07 (DC Thunder)

That's the list. The bolded deserves 0 pts.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Again, very nice work C.

 

[timschochet]

I am still on vacation and updating posts is a real hassle up here. I'll get to this when I can, or I will do it when I get back on Sunday.

I considered both the original Drunken Master and Bloodsport. I found both of them entertaining, but, as a film, I enjoyed Kill Bill more. Oh well.

 

[timschochet]

Rankings (after 2 categories)

40 pts Tremendous Upside

33 pts DougB

33 pts jwb

32 pts wbaaoz

31 pts Mister CIA

31 pts rikishiboy

29 pts Usual21

28 pts BobbyLayne

25 pts AcerFC

24 pts timschochet

22 pts Mrs. Rannous

19 pts tish156

17 pts DC Thunder

 

[timschochet]

The following still owe picks:

rikishiboy

Non-tragic News story of the last 20 years

MisterCIA

American military victory

Disgusting food

Usual21

American military defeat

American military victory

Choreographer

Country song

Disgusting food

Duet song

Non-tragic news story of the last 20 years

Sandwich

For some reason the last time I posted this I omitted Mister CIA, not sure why. In any case, while rikishiboy has been here and promises to post his pick, neither MisterCIA nor Usual21 has made a pick in over a week and they are holding up the draft. Therefore, as promised, I am opening these picks up to anyone who wants to make them, so that we can move on to the judging. I plan on making several myself.

 

[timschochet]

Usual21's American Military Victory- Belleau Wood

I considered this for my own pick. I think it's highly underrated among American victories. Ludendorff might have won the First World War for Germany in 1918 if not for this valiant effort by the U.S. Marine Corps, who were forced to enter the fray without any preparation.

 

[identikit]

We'll give Usual until the end of this week. After Friday, I'll open his remaining picks up to whoever wants to post them, first come first served. It's unfair to the judges to wait any longer than that.

 

[timschochet]

We'll give Usual until the end of this week. After Friday, I'll open his remaining picks up to whoever wants to post them, first come first served. It's unfair to the judges to wait any longer than that.

I meant it to be by Friday, and it's Thursday afternoon. In any case, the longer this goes on, the more risk I have of losing judges, which is what happened last time. So I need to speed things up. Usual21 is a good guy; I figure he's just tied up with something. We've got to get this part finished.

 

[Mister CIA]

The following still owe picks:

rikishiboy

Non-tragic News story of the last 20 years

MisterCIA

American military victory

Disgusting food

Usual21

American military defeat

American military victory

Choreographer

Country song

Disgusting food

Duet song

Non-tragic news story of the last 20 years

Sandwich

For some reason the last time I posted this I omitted Mister CIA, not sure why. In any case, while rikishiboy has been here and promises to post his pick, neither MisterCIA nor Usual21 has made a pick in over a week and they are holding up the draft. Therefore, as promised, I am opening these picks up to anyone who wants to make them, so that we can move on to the judging. I plan on making several myself.

I'll make my two. Actually, I am going to pick disgusting food now, if somebody wants to chime in with something they think is being overlooked for Great US Military Victory, by all means do, else I might make an uninspired pick.For my Disgusting Food food selection, this might taste good for all I know, and all I know is nothing because I will never eat this. Apparently it's quite a delicacy in many parts of the world.

Disgusting Food - Sheep's Head, or more appropriately, sheep's face.

Come and get it!

 

[timschochet]

The following still owe picks:

rikishiboy

Non-tragic News story of the last 20 years

MisterCIA

American military victory

Disgusting food

Usual21

American military defeat

American military victory

Choreographer

Country song

Disgusting food

Duet song

Non-tragic news story of the last 20 years

Sandwich

For some reason the last time I posted this I omitted Mister CIA, not sure why. In any case, while rikishiboy has been here and promises to post his pick, neither MisterCIA nor Usual21 has made a pick in over a week and they are holding up the draft. Therefore, as promised, I am opening these picks up to anyone who wants to make them, so that we can move on to the judging. I plan on making several myself.

I'll make my two. Actually, I am going to pick disgusting food now, if somebody wants to chime in with something they think is being overlooked for Great US Military Victory, by all means do, else I might make an uninspired pick.For my Disgusting Food food selection, this might taste good for all I know, and all I know is nothing because I will never eat this. Apparently it's quite a delicacy in many parts of the world.

Disgusting Food - Sheep's Head, or more appropriately, sheep's face.

Come and get it!

Thank you!

 

[timschochet]

Usual21's Duet song: "Don't Give Up" Peter Gabriel and Kate Bush

Always liked this song, and I expected it to be drafted.

 

[Mister CIA]

I'll go ahead and select military victory. Pick coming up in a minute.

 

[timschochet]

Usual 21's Military Defeat- Clark Air Base

In many ways, what happened at Clark Air Base on December 8, 1941 was even more shocking than what happened on the day before. General MacArthur knew about Pearl Harbor, yet he refused, against the urging of subordinates, to send his B-17s to attack (and safety) until the Phillipines itself was attacked. So there they were, lined up in a row at Clark Air Base when the Japanese struck, and they were all destroyed. MacArthur never had a chance after that: the battle of Bataan which followed was a foregone conclusion.

 

[Mister CIA]

Battle of San Jacinto - Great US Military Victory.

The judge may dismiss this on a technicality, but it's still my pick. This battle paved the way for Texas to become an independent country, but really, this was a battle fought by Americans, and ultimately for America. It's well known that the rally cry Remember the Alamo was born here, but I'd argue that the cry America, #### Yeah was also born here - if I had sufficient historical perspective to defend such an argument.

Unattributed quote on Wikipedia:

Measured by its results, San Jacinto was one of the decisive battles of the world. The freedom of Texas from Mexico won here led to annexation and to the Mexican-American War, resulting in the acquisition by the United States of the states of Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, California, Utah and parts of Colorado, Wyoming, Kansas and Oklahoma. Almost one-third of the present area of the American Nation, nearly a million square miles of territory, changed sovereignty.

The world's tallest memorial (Texas, #### Yeah!)

 

[jwb]

Television Holiday Special

I usually do these over several posts, but I'm worn out, so we get it in one big post.

There are no big surprises, and maybe only some mild disappointments.

8 Points - Mister Magoo's Christmas Carol

I had forgotten this one existed. A little digging tells me it’s the first animated special. And it was on all during the 70’s and 80’s. How did I miss it? Well, I did watch it recently, and while it’s decent enough, it probably gets lost in all other tales of scrooge.

9 Points - Bob Hope Christmas Special

It’s Bob Hope, so it can’t finish on the bottom, despite being long gone as a holiday tradition. Before my time, but I’ll bet many people looked forward to this one.

10 Points - Emmett Otters Jug Band Christmas

This is a weird little story about weird little animals that play weird little songs. Did I say it was weird? But despite that, it also has a goofy charm, and from what I read, a decent cult following (of weird people, no doubt). Still, some value for the last pick.

11 points - Tournament of Roses Parade

This one is going to get dinged a little bit because I wanted something that tied into the holiday more than just being on it. That’s a tough thing, because yes, being on the day every year kind of does count as tying it in, but I’m having a hard time ranking this one over quality holiday specials/events that are tied more to the holiday in theme/story.

12 Points - Santa Claus is Comin' to Town

Now it gets tough, as every pick from this one on is a true classic. This one is one of my personal favorites - I flipped this one and “year without” (another favorite of mine) a few times, but in the end, Heat Miser and Snow Miser trump the Winter Warlock and Burgermeister Meisterburger. But this is a great special.

13 Points - A Year Without a Santa Claus (my pick)

See above. An oddball story, with some great characters and songs.

14 Points - It's the Great Pumpkin Charlie Brown

“I got a rock”. Great show. All-time classic, really. The reason it finished here is because everything above it has just as much quality, but are somewhat more prolific (halloween specials in general are lackluster.)

15 Points - **** Clark's New Year's Rockin' Eve

I remember when this started in the 70’s, and it’s still going strong, despite the last few years of an unwatchable Clark (hey, his name is on it, and many of his older fans saluted him still going out there, so more power to him, but let’s be honest, it was awful.) Still, that doesn’t hurt it – 15 points is a fine score here.

16 Points - Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade

Now THIS is a parade. It’s the most famous parade in America, so not much more needs to be said about it – a Thanksgiving tradition (with Thanksgiving right in the name), great floats, lots of buzz… yes, a lot of people watch it as background noise while food is prepared and people wait for kickoff. But I’ll bet anything it’s on in most households Thanksgiving morning.

17 Points - Frosty the Snowman

Any of the top 4 could have finished #1. This just happens to be my rank and interpretation. And I feel, that out of these four classics, this one is the weakest of the bunch.

18 Points - How the Grinch Stole Christmas

18 points for the Grinch. Just a great cartoon / story / etc. Great song, too (“you’re a mean one, Mr. Grinch”.) But I think, in the end, the two above him are just a little bit better.

19 Points - Rudolph the Red- Nosed Reindeer

Great story, great characters, excellent stop motion animation – the total package, and a show every kid watched every year. The cool thing about this show is how much story it packs into its 47 minutes – Rudolph’s childhood / reindeer games, the dentist elf, Yukon Cornelius, the Bumble, the island of misfit toys, etc etc. One of the best ever.

20 Points – A Charlie Brown Christmas

This would be a top five holiday special even without Vince Guaraldi’s classic soundtrack. But with it? The twenty pointer, and the best holiday special of all time.

 

[Mister CIA]

Television Holiday Special

14 Points - It's the Great Pumpkin Charlie Brown

I got a rock.

 

[timschochet]

Rankings (after 3 categories)

52 pts Tremendous Upside

50 pts rikishiboy

46 pts jwb

45 pts Mister CIA

45 pts Usual21

44 pts timschochet

41 pts DougB

43 pts wbaaoz

40 pts Mrs. Rannous

37 pts BobbyLayne

36 pts tish156

35 pts AcerFC

32 pts DC Thunder

 

[timschochet]

Usual21's Choreographer: Jerome Robbins:

He revolutionized Broadway dancing with "West Side Story." The dancing before that musical and afterwards is like night and day.

 

[timschochet]

Usual21's Sandwich: Ham and Cheese

Extremely boring, but also extremely popular. In fact, I read somewhere its the most popular sandwich ever.

 

[timschochet]

Usual21's Country Song: "King of the Road"- Roger Miller

Really? Come on, people.

 

[timschochet]

Usual's Most disgusting food: Rocky Mountain Oysters

Deep fried bulls ####, anyone?

 

[Mister CIA]

Usual21's Country Song: "King of the Road"- Roger Miller

Really? Come on, people.

I would have gone with Johnny Bush's Whiskey River for greatest country song. There are not many voices I'll rank above Roy Orbison, but this one talks the walk. ... Whiskey River, Willie Nelson's signature song, could have also been a contender for greatest cover song too.Speaking of cover songs, it's a shame Elmore James went undrafted -

. Would be top three, were I the judge.

 

[timschochet]

Usual's Non Tragic News Story: Arab Spring

As of right now, we have no idea where this story is going. But we know that's it's incredibly important, and may affect all our futures.

So that does it for Usual21, We are now just waiting on rikishiboy's non-tragic news story (hope I didn't just swipe it!) and all the picks are in.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Usual's Most disgusting food: Rocky Mountain Oysters

Deep fried bulls ####, anyone?

I've eaten eaten these, in a branding ring, cooked in the branding iron fire. I tried not to think about what I was eating, and it tasted fine. Then I remembered the calf had kicked me in my own RMOs, and it started tasting pretty good.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Battle of San Jacinto - Great US Military Victory.

The judge may dismiss this on a technicality, but it's still my pick. This battle paved the way for Texas to become an independent country, but really, this was a battle fought by Americans, and ultimately for America. It's well known that the rally cry Remember the Alamo was born here, but I'd argue that the cry America, #### Yeah was also born here - if I had sufficient historical perspective to defend such an argument.

Unattributed quote on Wikipedia:

Measured by its results, San Jacinto was one of the decisive battles of the world. The freedom of Texas from Mexico won here led to annexation and to the Mexican-American War, resulting in the acquisition by the United States of the states of Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, California, Utah and parts of Colorado, Wyoming, Kansas and Oklahoma. Almost one-third of the present area of the American Nation, nearly a million square miles of territory, changed sovereignty.

The world's tallest memorial (Texas, #### Yeah!)

Not allowed.The inscription you quoted glosses over one tiny fact - this battle was the end of the Texas Revolution and resulted in Texas becoming an independent nation. The end. The rest of the inscription describes the results of a separate war fought 12 years later.

Santa Anna getting his ### handed to him in 18 minutes is some pretty sweet action, and Sam Houston might be the greatest Texan ever. But this is not an American Victory. It's a Texas Victory.

ETA: typo

 

[BobbyLayne]

Better pick:

Missionary Ridge

I'll blog it up in the morning. The sick child has gone back to sleep, and I need to do the same.

 

[rikishiboy]

The Demotion of Pluto---Non Tragic News Story.

---I went back and forth many times among various choices (International Space Station, Mapping the Human Genome, Cloning, etc.)and while these are big accomplishments, I just feel that the Pluto demotion is a bit more my cup of tea.

 

[rikishiboy]

I will be starting the Non Tragic News Stories rankings later on today. We definately had a large variety of picks which will make my rankings somewhat debatable as I am sure each of us would come up with something a bit different. However, I will do my best...but be forewarned personal interest will play a part as I said in the criteria.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Usual21's Country Song: "King of the Road"- Roger Miller

Really? Come on, people.

The biggest omissions to me were "I'm so Lonesome I Could Cry" Hank Williams and "Mama Tried" Merle Haggard - maybe they are too old school or too "chalk" but I was kind of surprised they were not picked.

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

Great Pumpkin got robbed!

 

[BobbyLayne]

Great Pumpkin got robbed!

Schultz should have gotten 1-2, and GP should have gotten the 20 IMO.What was the spelling bee one? Probably wasn't a holiday special.

 

[Doug B]

What was the spelling bee one? Probably wasn't a holiday special.

A Boy Named Charlie Brown.

 

[Doug B]

8 Points - Mister Magoo's Christmas Carol

I had forgotten this one existed. A little digging tells me it's the first animated special. And it was on all during the 70's and 80's. How did I miss it? Well, I did watch it recently, and while it's decent enough, it probably gets lost in all other tales of scrooge.

Had to gamble, as I punted this category too long. Some people LOVE this special, and would rank it Top 5. Probably no one under 50, though -- the likes of Charlie Brown, Rudolph, and Frosty really puhed Mr. Magoo down in the public conciousness.

 

[Doug B]

Why wasn't any of the following picked [for Martial Arts Movie]?

Reason: few of those movies are household names. Your knowledge of the category informs you in a way that few, if any, of the drafters can match.This is one of the difficulties with having a field expert judging a category -- a problem we've wrestled with since Gigantomachia gave Socrates a 1. Reminds me a lot also of when the Louvre wasn't originally going to get the 20 points in European Museum.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Better pick:

Battle of Missionary Ridge - American Military Victory

I'll blog it up in the morning. The sick child has gone back to sleep, and I need to do the same.

Two months after being swept off the fields and woodlots surrounding Chickamauga Creek, the Army of Cumberland redeemed itself with a legendary charge up Missionary Ridge that sent the Confederate Army of Tennessee in a headlong dash back into Georgia. The relief of the siege of Chattanooga was the culmination of a month long campaign by U.S. Grant, beginning with an amphibious operation that opened of the "Cracker Line" supply chain, and came one day after Joe Hooker won the Battle of Lookout Mountain *(aka "The Battle Above the Clouds").The battle on November 25, 1863, was to have been carried out by a flank attack by William Tecumseh Sherman's Army of Mississippi, but Patrick Cleburne's division stopped them cold at a spur on the northern end of Missionary Ridge known as Tunnel Hill. George Thomas' troops were to make a strong demonstration by retaking the rifle pits in the valley at the base of the ridge. But they got tired of getting shot at, and they found the further they moved up, the more cover they had. John Breckinridge had been in charge of fortifying Missionary Ridge, but he stupidly chose the actual crest instead of the military crest, leaving blind spots open to attack. Finally they charged up to what Confederate Commander Braxton Bragg had deemed an impregnable position, and combined with Hooker's troops on the left flank, routed the Confederate Army of the heartland.

The battle resulting in the Union forces regaining control of the strategic center, but more importantly, coming on the heels of Vicksburg, ensured the Congressional appointment of Grant to General-in-Chief of the Army (the first since George Washington to hold the post). Grant moved east, and began the Overland Campaign that eventually resulted in the conclusion of the American Civil War.

 

[charvik]

Why wasn't any of the following picked [for Martial Arts Movie]?

Reason: few of those movies are household names. Your knowledge of the category informs you in a way that few, if any, of the drafters can match.This is one of the difficulties with having a field expert judging a category -- a problem we've wrestled with since Gigantomachia gave Socrates a 1. Reminds me a lot also of when the Louvre wasn't originally going to get the 20 points in European Museum.

Well, what's the purpose of the drafts?Is it strictly a pop culture and main stream awareness competition or is the purpose to be exposed to something unknown, expanding your horizon and learn about something new?

These drafts seem to be more about winning for the most part, not about learning, with mulligans, little discussion about picks in fear of them being thrown back, spotlighted, etc etc.

Edited to fix cell phone auto correct

 

[BobbyLayne]

DC Thunder posed a question midway through the draft on why any Civil War battle could be considered an American Military Victory or American Military Defeat. After all, it was Americans killing Americans.

The Civil War is the central event in America's historical consciousness. While the Revolution of 1776 created the United States, the Civil War determined what kind of nation it would be. The war resolved two fundamental questions left unresolved by the revolution: whether the United States was to be a dissolvable confederation of sovereign states or an indivisible nation with a sovereign national government; and whether this nation, born of a declaration that all men were created with an equal right to liberty, would continue to exist as the largest slave-holding country in the world.

Northern victory in the war preserved the United States as one nation and ended the institution of slavery that had divided the country from its beginning. But these achievements came at the cost of 625,000 lives--nearly as many American soldiers as died in all the other wars in which this country has fought combined. The American Civil War was the largest and most destructive conflict in the Western world between the end of the Napoleonic Wars in 1815 and the onset of World War I in 1914.

Can you imagine how World history would be altered if the CSA had been successful in a second American Revolution?

Gettysburg and Vicksburg and Appomattox should all be viewed as important American Military Victory's because it ensured the greatness of our nation.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Duets

As I did before ranking “Live Albums” in the last Timdraft, I want to start off by apologizing to anyone who receives a low ranking. It’s obviously not personal, but something has to, by definition, be ranked low in order to have rankings. Also there is a lot more subjectivity this time around then there was in the previous ranking. For one thing there were a lot more lists to look at for Live Albums then Duets and the style of music was a lot more similar (almost exclusively rock music) than here were the choices were more eclectic.

I will not call these “omissions”, as I don’t think there are any clear cut choices for this category, but here’s a few that I personally would have considered:

“Walk and Don’t Look Back” Mick Jagger and Peter Tosh

“Stop Dragging My Heart Around” Stevie Nicks with Tom Petty & the Heartbreakers

“Empire State of Mind” Jay Z and Alicia Keys

“Candy” Iggy Pop and Kate Pierson

“Something Stupid” Frank and Nancy Sinatra

8 Points

13. I Saw Red – Sublime with Gwen Stefani

Rankings

The Telegraph (Top 50): Not Ranked

Yahoo (Top 10): Not Ranked

Spinner.com (Top 10): Not Ranked

My Take: I’ve always liked Sublime, but more for their “vibe” and not really so much for their vocals. This is a really fun song and I like the music a lot, but the ranking reflects that fact that it’s not classic duet, but more a song featuring two lead vocalists. While that may not make much sense, I just feel this selection doesn’t represent the spirit of the category properly and unfortunately something has to finish last.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

9 Points

12. Dont Give Up Peter Gabrielle and Kate Bush

Rankings

The Telegraph (Top 50): 3

Yahoo (Top 10): Not Ranked

Spinner.com (Top 10): Not Ranked

My Take: A classic call out and respond duet as there are no harmonies and quite frankly not much chemistry between the two performers. Both have very good voices that compliment each other well, but its as if they sang their parts separately and werent even aware that they would be added to the others performance. Still there is some real emotion in both voices and it does seem like Kate is actually rooting Peter on to not give up, albeit without speaking to him directly.

10 Points

11. Barcelona Freddie Mercury and Monseratte Caballe

Rankings

The Telegraph (Top 50): Not Ranked

Yahoo (Top 10): Not Ranked

Spinner.com (Top 10): Not Ranked

My Take:Freddie gets to show his operatic range here while performing with an actual opera star. This is a beautiful song and both singers have beautiful voices, but Ive never personally been a fan of perfect voices. I can certainly appreciate them, but give me some grit or some soul in my vocals. As I said though a beautiful song and a very good pairing, but I have a hard time believing most people in here would seek this one out or subject themselves to multiple listenings over a short time period.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

11 Points

10. The Battle of Evermore Led Zepplin with Sandy Denny



Rankings

The Telegraph (Top 50): Not Ranked

Yahoo (Top 10): Not Ranked

Spinner.com (Top 10): Not Ranked

My Take: This song is probably one of my favorites among those drafted, but while it technically is a duet between Robert Plant and Sandy Denny I never really though of it as a duet. My guess is that most people would be in the same boat, classifying it as a Led Zepplin song, perhaps some may go so far as to say with a guest appearance by Sandy Denny. Anyway the song is one of many acoustic ballads (with the lead instrument being a mandolin nonetheless) by a band many consider only as a hard rock band. Plant narrates the song while Denny plays the part of the town crier their voices arent all that distinguishable from each other though as they both sing in the high end of the vocal range. Its a quite beautiful song despite the silly Tolkienesque lyrics that found their way into too many Zepplin songs.

12 Points

9. Stumblin In Suzi Quatro and Chris Norman

Rankings

The Telegraph (Top 50): Unranked

Yahoo (Top 10): Unranked

Spinner.com (Top 10): Unranked

My Take: Like most of the pop hits of the 70s this is pretty lightweight stuff, but that doesnt change the fact that its infectously catchy and a lot of fun. Suzi is probably best known as Leather Tuscadaro from Happy Days but she was a big rock star down under and is a solid performer. Norman really brings the vocals here and there is great chemistry between the two and you can see (hear) that they are both having a great time performing this tune. I dare you to listen to this one and not get caught humming the tune a few minutes later.

 

[timschochet]

Charvik, your critcism about mulligans is noted; upon reflection, I agree, and we won't use them again.

As far as your other criticism: yes this is ultimately a competition. If we didn't have a competition, my experience is that people would drop out of these drafts partway through. A competition, and a race for an ultimate winner, keeps people interested throughout the entire process.