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Timdraft # 2 (1 Viewer)

For those who don't know...IB=Corky.
A few months ago I was driving downtown, and I saw a guy standing near the Idiot Box with a dog, and I thought for a moment it was you. I wasn't stopped so I couldn't get a good look, but do you have a dog and take it downtown sometimes?
 
For those who don't know...IB=Corky.
A few months ago I was driving downtown, and I saw a guy standing near the Idiot Box with a dog, and I thought for a moment it was you. I wasn't stopped so I couldn't get a good look, but do you have a dog and take it downtown sometimes?
Much to my kids dismay, we don't have a dog. Would love to see you at the Box again sometimes, though I'm there a whole lot less than I used to be.Which reminds me, I thought of a category for Tim Draft #3 I'd like to judge:Best Stand-Up Comic (all-time)Best Stand-Up Comic (current)
 
Rankings (after 6 categories)

100 wbaaoz

93 timschochet

90 Tremendous Upside

89 rikishiboy

89 Mister CIA

89 Usual21

87 BobbyLayne

86 jwb

79 Mrs. Rannous

78 DC Thunder

75 DougB

75 tish156

62 AcerFC

 
Ok, I have studied the cover songs, and am ready to rank them. I certainly hope somebody else offers to take wrestlers.

8 pts- The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down (Joan Baez, original version by The Band)

The first rule of this category should be, IMO, that the cover version should improve on the original, or, at the very least, not make you yearn for the original. Miss Baez has a sweet voice, and like Judy Collins, she specialized in folk covers of well known songs during the late 60's/early 70s. The problem is that the original version of this song is one of the alltime classics by the Band, and Baez just doesn't live up to it. There is a yearning in Levon Helm's voice in the original, an empathy for the character he is singing about. Helm, a Southerner, understands what it meant for the South to lose that war. Not sure Baez does. She doesn't destroy the song, but she doesn't capture it either. Not a great cover.

 
9 pts- Unchained Melody (The Righteous Brothers, original version by Todd Duncan)

I had no idea that there have been over 500 covers of this song- that's amazing. Obviously the Medley's version is the most famous: it's a classic of blue-eyed soul. It gets 9 points here because of the strength of the classics ranked above it. This is a very strong list of songs.

 
10 pts. Hallelujah (Jeff Buckley, original version by Leonard Cohen)

Here's another song that has had a lot of cover versions, and it so happens that I personally like some of them better than Buckley's, including Rufus Wainwright, Brandi Carlisle, and Allison Crowe. And I also really like the original Cohen version: it has a creepy sound to it that reminds me of Tom Waits. But of course Buckley's version is the most famous.

 
11 pts- Hurt (Johnny Cash, original version by Nine Inch Nails)

In his last months, the Man in Black recorded a number of great covers, this one being the most famous. (One of my favorites from this period is his version of Neil Diamond's "Solitary Man" with Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers backing him up.) Cash's voice is old and cracking, and has great resonance. I probably should rank this one higher but I'm just not a huge fan of this song. Also, EVERY song ranked above it is an absolute classic.

 
12 pts- Hound Dog (Elvis Presley, original version by "Big Mama" Willie Mae Thornton")

Damn I love the original version of this song. But Elvis sings the hell out of it too, as he does with so many covers during this time period ("Blue Suede Shoes", written by Carl Perkins, would have been a great choice as well.) Early rock and roll doesn't get too much better than this.

 
13 pts- And When I Die (Blood Sweat and Tears, original version by Laura Nyro)

Burton Cumming's great vocals and the various changes in tempo make this one of my favorite songs of the late 60s.

 
14 pts- Twist and Shout (The Beatles, original version by The Isley Brothers)

One of several great early rock and roll covers by the Beatles- others include "Roll Over Beethoven", "Rock and Roll Music", "Money (That's What I Want)". All of these and a few others were collected on a reissue album called The Beatles- Rock and Roll Music which I played to death in my early teens. Joyous music.

 
15 pts Blinded By the Light (Manfred Mann, Original version by Bruce Springsteen)

I love the original version; it fits right in with the other great songs from Greetings. The Mann version is a classic rock staple from the mid-70s, always great to listen to, loud.

 
16 pts- I Will Always Love You (Whitney Houston, original version by Dolly Parton)

One of the greatest vocals in music history. Whitney just kills it. Very different from the original version, which is rather understated for Dolly. Just an incredible song.

 
17 pts- When the Levee Breaks- (Led Zeppelin, original version by Memphis Minnie)

This is my pick, and I'm sure I'll get criticized for ranking it so high. Oh well. It very well might deserve the 20 spot. If I had to list the greatest classic rock songs ever, this one might make my top 5. Everything is sheer blues-rock perfection: the incredible bass, the thudding lead guitar, Plant's soulful vocals, and most of all, what I consider to be the greatest use of drums in a rock song ever.

 
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18 pts- All Along the Watchtower (Jimi Hendrix, original version by Bob Dylan)

Not my favorite Dylan cover- I prefer Rod Stewart's "Tomorrow is a Long Time", but certainly up there with the Byrd's "Mr. Tambourine Man" as the most famous of all Dylan covers. Hendrix's vocals and guitar work is, or course, unparalled.

 
19 pts- Respect (Aretha Franklin, original version by Otis Redding)

She kicks ### in this song. What more needs to be said? Another great choice would have been her cover of Carole King's "Natural Women". Few human beings in the history of this planet are better at singing than this woman.

 
13 pts- And When I Die (Blood Sweat and Tears, original version by Laura Nyro)

Burton Cumming's great vocals and the various changes in tempo make this one of my favorite songs of the late 60s.
Wrong Canuck, wrong band.

David Clayton-Thomas.

So after he slows down (they never really retire fully or stop touring entirely), he retires to Malibu. Around 1992 or so I'm reading an article on Masters Champ Freddie Couples, and at one point Freddie and the reporter take the dog for a walk on the beach. They linger since there is an awesome sunset. Pretty soon Couples falls into a conversation with his neighbor Dave. They're both easy going and get along great and they end up sharing a few bottles of wine. At no time during the entire night does David-Clayton Thomas realize he's talking to the best golfer in the world, nor does Fred ever catch on what the fellow divorcee with back problems does for a living. I remember thinking that's pretty much the epitome of cool: both guys among the best examples of excellence in their craft in the history of the world, and neither felt compelled to define themselves by what they did for a living.

HFS

 
20 pts- With a Little Help From My Friends (Joe Cocker, original version by the Beatles)

This gets the 20 because I consider it the perfect cover song- it is essentially the same song as the original, yet it is totally different. Cocker's vocals are magnificent, and the guitar work is exemplary. It's all subjective, but for me this is the top of the list.

 
13 pts- And When I Die (Blood Sweat and Tears, original version by Laura Nyro)

Burton Cumming's great vocals and the various changes in tempo make this one of my favorite songs of the late 60s.
Wrong Canuck, wrong band.

David Clayton-Thomas.

So after he slows down (they never really retire fully or stop touring entirely), he retires to Malibu. Around 1992 or so I'm reading an article on Masters Champ Freddie Couples, and at one point Freddie and the reporter take the dog for a walk on the beach. They linger since there is an awesome sunset. Pretty soon Couples falls into a conversation with his neighbor Dave. They're both easy going and get along great and they end up sharing a few bottles of wine. At no time during the entire night does David-Clayton Thomas realize he's talking to the best golfer in the world, nor does Fred ever catch on what the fellow divorcee with back problems does for a living. I remember thinking that's pretty much the epitome of cool: both guys among the best examples of excellence in their craft in the history of the world, and neither felt compelled to define themselves by what they did for a living.

HFS
YIIKES!!!I KNEW I should have looked that up first. I was going by memory. You're correct of course. Still great vocals.

 
Cover songs

20- With A Little Help From My Friends

19- Respect

18- All Along the Watchtower

17- When the Levee Breaks

16- I Will Always Love You

15- Blinded By the Light

14- Twist and Shout

13- And When I Die

12- Hound Dog

11- Hurt

10- Hallelujah

9- Unchained Melody

8- The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down

 
Rankings (after 7 categories)

116 wbaaoz

110 timschochet

107 Mister CIA

103 Usual21

101 BobbyLayne

101 jwb

101 rikishiboy

100 Tremendous Upside

98 Mrs. Rannous

95 tish156

86 DC Thunder

84 DougB

73 AcerFC

 
70's Sports Star DougB

American Military Defeat BobbyLayne

American Military Victory BobbyLayne

American Poem Krista4

Athlete born in Africa DougB

Celebrity Chef Krista4/Oliver Humanzee

Child Star Mrs. Rannous

Choreographer BobbyLayne

Country Song Professor S

Cover Song timschochet

Disco Song Mrs. Rannous

Disgusting Food Corky

Duet Song Dr. Octopus

FFA Thread higgins

Hip Hop Album Professor S

Jazz Recording Tremendous Upside

Junk Food Keerock

Martial Arts Movie Charvik

Mixed Drink Charvik

MLB Third Baseman higgins

Movie Musical Corky

NBA Point Guard Frostilicus

Non-tragic News story of the last 20 years rikishiboy

Professional Wrestler Brady Marino

Sandwich jwb

Short Novel Tremendous Upside

Spin off Television show Keerock

Television Holiday Special jwb

TV Half hour comedy Keerock

Worst Movie For A Great Actor Corky

 
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Best Wrestler

8 points- The Fabulous Moolah

Moolah was a pioneer. The first REAL great women's wrestler. The problem with her when compared to others in this draft is that A. women's wrestling has been treated mostly as an afterthought and/or a way to get eye candy on the screen in America and B. most people only remember her as a catty old lady in WWF's Attitude Era. So while she is a pioneer, she was a pioneer in a niche that never took off until "Bra and Panties" was invented. Oh, and she helped Mae Young give birth to a hand.

 
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9 points- Bret Hart

Decent career, good worker in his own right. The fact that he was willing to be a workhorse got him his mega-push in 1992, when he beat Flair for the belt in Saskatoon. However, Vince thought so little of Bret that he had him lose the belt to Yoko at Wrestlemania 9, only for Yoko to lose to Hogan (Hart wouldn't drop directly to Hogan because Hart was never the friendliest guy backstage). Sure he was the top guy in an absolutely horrible era for wrestling, but...he was the top guy in an absolutely horrible era for wrestling. He always bored me on the mic, too.

 
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10 points- Roddy Piper

Hey, I like Roddy. He was entertaining. He was crazy. And he wasn't a bad worker. But did he ever carry a company? No. Did he ever hold the big strap for WWF or WCW? No. Did he really revolutionize a type of character like others in this draft did? No. He gets a higher ranking than Hart because he did main event Wrestlemania I and he had a better run of being "pretty good" than Hart, who was stuck with a coked-out-of-his-mind Jim Neidhart for the first few years of his WWE run. Plus, Piper was just fun, unlike the stuffy Hart.

 
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11 points- "Nature Boy" Buddy Rogers

The Original Nature Boy. Heyday was really before many wrestlers drafted. Great looking guy and could wrestle. But he has limited mic work, which does make a difference...especially with the other wrestlers drafted. When he did pick up a mic during his WWF run in the 1980's, he was drier than burnt toast. It may not be fair to rank Rogers so low, because he's really an orange to most of the apples in this draft, but I'm viewing wrestlers on their overall work, and Rogers would have had trouble after Hogan broke out. Another thing that hurts Rogers is that he's not even the best Nature Boy. In fact, the better Nature Boy was far more entertaining and even beat him in the ring. How can you be ranked highly if you're known as the "Second Best Nature Boy"? But the fact that he did pave the way for a Flair and others puts him above Moolah, Hart, and Piper.

 
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12 points- Randy Savage

This may be surprising to some, but he suffers from the same problem Piper had: he never carried a company. Yes, he did co-headline Wrestlemania V (MEGAPOWERS EXPLODE!), but besides that, he was just very good, not great. Won the belt in WCW twice...only to drop the belt the next day twice. But Savage was a one of a kind in that he was a true-to-life character. He had a raspy voice that was a defect he acquired in life. So he took advantage of it and ran with it. One bug-a-boo Savage had was that every...single...move he did in the ring had to be rehearsed beforehand. He could never call a match in the ring or simply go over it backstage. Everything had to he choreographed. Now granted, he was a good worker, but limited. Give him credit for making the most of those limits, but when compared to others in this draft, only so much credit can be given at all.

 
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13 points- John Cena

He's got the two curses that hold down Hart and will hold down Hogan later on. First, he's cursed by being the top draw in a horrible era of wrestling. Granted, 2006-present isn't as bad as the mid 90's, but it's a long way from the Attitude Era. Second, he's cursed by not being a great worker. Similar moveset to a Hogan (Five Moves of Doom). It's obvious that Vince wants Cena to be a Hogan-type, but he never really had the entire grasp of his audience like Hogan had. There's always been a vocal faction that hates the ground Cena walks on. While he is good on the mic and has made the most of his talent by far, he's hampered by era, wrestling talent, and inability to fully grab an audience.

 
BEST NBA POINT GUARD

I attempted to take everything into account - points, rebounds, assists, championships, MVPs, All-defensive teams, and even ELO ranking, which is a survey done by visitors to basketball-reference.com to rank every player in NBA History. That being said, other than a clear cut #1 this was incredibly difficult, and arguments can be made to move pretty much everyone else up or down several spots - and these are arguments I will listen to. These are not my final rankings. I can be swayed or bribed.

8 pts - Maurice Cheeks.

Like I said, this was hard, but someone has to be last. Gets a boost from winning the title in 1983, but he ranks last among those drafted in scoring and is second-to-the last in All-Star Games and Top 10 assist seasons. His defense is probably his strong suit, but it can't overcome those shortcomings as well as being one of the worst rebounders in the group and in the bottom half in total assists and bottom 3 in assists per game. If it makes the drafter feel any better, I can't actually think of a better pick that wasn't taken, but he just doesn't measure up. Zero All-NBA Teams was a particular killer.

9 pts - Kevin Johnson.

One of my favorites to watch, but he's hurt by a relatively short career and monster competition from his peers, ranking in the bottom four in career points, rebounds, assists, and steals among those drafted. He also played in just 3 all-star games despite making 5 All-NBA Teams. The reason he's ahead of Cheeks is his per game numbers are far better than Maurice's, and he was in the top 10 in assists seven times compared to just 5 for Cheeks despite a shorter career and KJ's five All-NBA nods.



10 pts - Nate "Tiny" Archibald.

Led the league in assists once and finished in the top 10 eight times which sounds impressive but is better than just four guys who were drafted, and in the end he finished his career with the third fewest assists of anybody drafted (which I realize is at least partially a product of the times, but that's the kind of thing that makes this so difficult). He's also the worst rebounder of the group (what do you expect from a guy named Tiny) and not a particularly noteworthy scorer once he joined the Celtics, and since I'm judging the entire length of the career, he lands here. Six all-star games, those top assist seasons, and his early career scoring ability grab him this spot.

11 pts - Walt "Clyde" Frazier.

12 pts - Gary Payton.

I have a feeling this might be where I hear the most grief given Frazier's iconic status in New York and where he was selected in this draft, but I list him with Payton for a reason. The Glove has Clyde beat in assists, assists per game, rebounds, points, all-star games, all-nba teams, defensive teams, top 10 assist seasons, and times leading the league in assists. Frazier leads in rebs per game, points per game, and he does have 2 championships on his resume which makes me hesitant to put Payton above him. And in Payton's prime he averaged 21 & 8 with 2.5 steals and less than 3 TOs per game. That's better than Frazier's prime middle of his career. Tough call, but I said if I couldn't make a call between two guys I'd go with the more "pure" point guard, and that's GP.



13 pts - Allen Iverson. Toughest guy to rank, and it's not even close. And neither is Iverson's scoring average of 26.7 per game compared to everybody else drafted (with one exception), where he's a full 7ppg higher over his career than anybody else, and he averaged a staggering 28.9ppg from 1999-2008. He's towards the bottom in assists and rebounding, but his 11 all-star games are one of the highest numbers among those drafted and his steals and steals per game numbers are excellent as well. Iverson also has one huge trump card in his MVP year of 2001. Do you realize only 5 point guards (among those drafted) ever won an MVP? And A.I. is one of them. Many like to throw out things like, "thug", "me-first player", and "not a true point guard" and some of that may even be true, but Iverson is truly one of the greats and if anything is underrated in my opinion because of his style, both on and off the court. And he carried that 2001 Sixers team to the Finals averaging 33 pts and 6 assists per game in the playoffs on a team where his second option was either Theo Ratliff or Aaron McKie. Barf. He's a unique player and tough to rank, but with two pretty clear tiers to me right in between the two groups feels right.

14 pts - Steve Nash. It gets really, really hard at this point and I was very tempted to rank Nash higher seeing as he has two MVPs, one of only two guys drafted to have more than one, but everybody else left can at least play some defense, whereas Nash might be the worst defensive player taken and that has to ding him some, particularly when it's so hard to separate the rest of these guys. None of his other numbers really stand out when looking at everybody ranked above him, outside of 3-point shooting and a very impressive six times leading the league in assists, but he's also got the fewest all-star nods of anybody else left. I dunno. Seems right.

15 pts - Jason Kidd. There are plenty of reasons to bump Kidd even higher - he's #2 in assists, #1 in rebounds, #2 in steals, #1 in three-pointers made, 10 all-star games, 9 all-defensive teams (tied with Payton for most by any PG drafted), and an incredible 16 times in the top 10 in assists (second most). The reason he's here though is he's played an incredible 18 seasons, which makes him a bit of a compiler. He's actually not even in the top 5 for assists/game, is second worst in scoring, those ten all-star games are tied for the fewest of anybody left as are his 6 all-nba teams, and he was a pretty offensive liability most of his career because he couldn't shoot - I didn't look this up against everybody because my spreadsheet was already done without it and I didn't want to do it again, but I'm betting his 40% career FG% is the worst of the group, and probably by a considerable margin.

16 pts - Isiah Thomas. When I first volunteered to judge my initial reaction was Isiah would probably be in the running for #2 overall. Breaking down the numbers, however, he's really not that close. His best rankings are 4th in assists per game and 4th in points per game - both impressive no doubt, but we're now talking the best of the best. He does have 12 all-star games which is tied for second, but his 5 all-nba teams are half or worse of everyone else remaining, and his top 10 assist seasons and years leading the league in assists are the fewest as well. He has a couple of championships and a Finals MVP (one of only two players drafted to have one), but I can't see putting him any higher.

17 pts - John Stockton. It feels a bit weird putting the all-time assist leader fourth when we're talking point guards, but Stockton's huge blemish on his record is no championships. I'm not one who immediately goes to the "rings" card when arguing players because it takes more than one dude to win a title, but when you look at who he is up against here it's impossible to ignore. Pulling from the Kidd argument, Stockton's 19 seasons also make him a bit of a compiler, although if there was an award for longevity he'd probably win seeing as how he played all 82 games in 16 of those 19 years. He's still #2 in assists per game, a point in his favor, but is bottom three in both points and assists per game. It's hard to ignore his amazing 17 years in the top 10 in assists and nine times leading the league, but of the top four he appeared in the fewest all-star games and is the only one to not win a title and to not win an MVP award.

18 pts - Bob Cousy. Kind of a tough guy to rank, especially if you look to closely at numbers, because his 7.5 assists per game in his career are middle of the road, but it's more of an era type thing rather than any deficiency in Cousy's game because he was in the top 10 in assists 13 times and led the league 8 times, second only to Stockton. He also made 13 all-star games, the most of all players drafted, and 12 all-nba teams - again tops amongst those drafted. An incredible career, to be sure, but numbers 1 and 2 on my list are light years ahead of everyone else, in my opinion.

19 pts - Oscar Robertson. On pure statistics alone you could make a very convincing argument for Oscar as the #1. He's top 5 in assists, assists per game, rebounds, rebounds per game, points, and points per game. He made 12 all-star games (2nd), 11 all-nba teams (2nd), was top 10 in assists thirteen times (3rd), and led the league in assists six times (3rd). And of course, he also has the distinction of being the only player to ever average a triple-double in a season, which is a truly incredible feat. Even more amazing? There have been five seasons in NBA history where a player averaged 9+ assists and 9+ rebounds and Oscar has four of them. The only possible knocks on him are he only won one MVP award and didn't win a title until he went to Milwaukee and it was clearly Kareem's team. Still, those are just nit-picks and he's definitely one of the best players in NBA history. He'd be the #1 if this next guy wasn't so amazing (and my favorite player of all-time).

20 pts - Magic Johnson. You know what you probably don't remember? Magic averaged 19.5 points per game in his career, third best in this group. Surprised me a bit. I did know that his 11.2 assists per game is the best in NBA history. In addition the only dudes drafted to beat him in steals per game are noted thieves Stockton, Iverson, and Cheeks. I know Magic never went through the end of the career spiral or whatever, but can you imagine what his final numbers would look like if he had those 4 or so more years? In the 13 years he did play he made 12 all-star teams (only missing when he was injured most of his second year), made 10 all-nba teams, was in the top 10 in assists in 11 seasons, and won 5 titles, 3 MVPs, and 3 Finals MVPs. Just an amazing career, and screw Jordan he's still the best player in NBA history to me. FUN FACT: I was a freshman in high school when Magic made "the announcement" and was devastated to the point of tears (he was my hero). I was such a Magic guy I had five different Magic Johnson T-shirts. The week following the announcement I wore a different one each day, and since I was in advanced class upperclassmen who paid attention to sports noticed my shirts each day and started paying more attention to me. I ended up getting invited to parties, made friends, and later that winter lost my virginity to a junior cheerleader.

NOTE: I made up the virginity part, but the story is way better that way.

 
Frost- Steve Nash isn't in this category (he was taken in African born athletes.) Chris Paul is in this category. You need to add for Paul, and then adjust your rankings, thanks.

 
14 points- Lou Thesz

Thesz was the first "The Man" of wrestling. I mean the guy was a monster back in his day. Guy worked his ### off and may be the best Greco-Roman wrestler of this draft. But much like Buddy Rogers, it's really hard to rank him any higher than here. Let's face it: who here has seen Lou Thesz wrestle? Anyone? Actually, HighBeams has and he says he's worthy of this spot, so there's one. His day was before anyone in this draft...in fact, he had to come out of retirement to beat Rogers for his 6th world title. Like wrestlers of his era, he wasn't asked to talk, so he was probably duller than dishwater there. But he was the first great wrestler and that definitely earns him a lot of credit.

 
15 points- The Rock

A better version of Cena. Not a great worker, but made the most of his talents and could hide a lot of his defects with a lot of showmanship. But where he crushes Cena is that he was an absolute maestro on the microphone. He was a fabulous heel and a great face (but still a better heel) and he had a great look about him. No wonder he's in movies now. But aha, that's where he loses points here. Rock's career was pretty short compared to others drafted. But he had a great run at the top in an era that could accommodate two mega-stars. No, he never was "the" guy like Hart, Thesz, or Cena, but he easily could have been and was never overshadowed. Had his career been longer, he'd probably be ranked higher.

 
14 points- Lou Thesz

Thesz was the first "The Man" of wrestling. I mean the guy was a monster back in his day. Guy worked his ### off and may be the best Greco-Roman wrestler of this draft. But much like Buddy Rogers, it's really hard to rank him any higher than here. Let's face it: who here has seen Lou Thesz wrestle? Anyone? Actually, HighBeams has and he says he's worthy of this spot, so there's one. His day was before anyone in this draft...in fact, he had to come out of retirement to beat Rogers for his 6th world title. Like wrestlers of his era, he wasn't asked to talk, so he was probably duller than dishwater there. But he was the first great wrestler and that definitely earns him a lot of credit.
Looking at the remainder of your list, I don't object to any of the modern giants being ranked above Thesz.I DO object, however, to Gorgeous George being ranked above Thesz. They are somewhat contemporaneous, and Thesz is roundly considered the greater, and more influential, wrestler.

 
16 points- Gorgeous George

George was the biggest mover and shaker in my rankings. I had him ranked pretty doggone low at times, much to my fault. HighBeams actually wanted George to be the 20 pointer, but he's not quite there. But where he scores big points is that he was THE template that the heel wrestler grew off of. The arrogant, cocky heel was literally invented by George. And he did it when the Thesz's and Rogers' of the landscape were making their legend. He was so far ahead of his time, it's ridiculous. He never won the big strap, which is why he's not in the top 3, but he was THE guy to hate in his era and a guy that really didn't need the belt to be timeless. But outside of his arrogance and flamboyance, George was a damn good freestyle wrestler and more than held his own with the Thesz's and Rogers' of his time. I almost wanted to rank him higher than Sammartino, but we'll get to him next.

 
14 points- Lou Thesz

Thesz was the first "The Man" of wrestling. I mean the guy was a monster back in his day. Guy worked his ### off and may be the best Greco-Roman wrestler of this draft. But much like Buddy Rogers, it's really hard to rank him any higher than here. Let's face it: who here has seen Lou Thesz wrestle? Anyone? Actually, HighBeams has and he says he's worthy of this spot, so there's one. His day was before anyone in this draft...in fact, he had to come out of retirement to beat Rogers for his 6th world title. Like wrestlers of his era, he wasn't asked to talk, so he was probably duller than dishwater there. But he was the first great wrestler and that definitely earns him a lot of credit.
Looking at the remainder of your list, I don't object to any of the modern giants being ranked above Thesz.I DO object, however, to Gorgeous George being ranked above Thesz. They are somewhat contemporaneous, and Thesz is roundly considered the greater, and more influential, wrestler.
Like I said in my write-up, George did more for modern wrestling than Thesz with his character. He set a mold. Thesz could outwrestle anyone in this draft in his sleep, I'll admit that. But George was no slouch either.
 
16 points- Gorgeous George

George was the biggest mover and shaker in my rankings. I had him ranked pretty doggone low at times, much to my fault. HighBeams actually wanted George to be the 20 pointer, but he's not quite there. But where he scores big points is that he was THE template that the heel wrestler grew off of. The arrogant, cocky heel was literally invented by George. And he did it when the Thesz's and Rogers' of the landscape were making their legend. He was so far ahead of his time, it's ridiculous. He never won the big strap, which is why he's not in the top 3, but he was THE guy to hate in his era and a guy that really didn't need the belt to be timeless. But outside of his arrogance and flamboyance, George was a damn good freestyle wrestler and more than held his own with the Thesz's and Rogers' of his time. I almost wanted to rank him higher than Sammartino, but we'll get to him next.
And there goes the credibility. Because from what I understand, the bolded simply isn't true. George was a regional fighter who couldn't hold Thesz' jockstrap.
 
16 points- Gorgeous George

George was the biggest mover and shaker in my rankings. I had him ranked pretty doggone low at times, much to my fault. HighBeams actually wanted George to be the 20 pointer, but he's not quite there. But where he scores big points is that he was THE template that the heel wrestler grew off of. The arrogant, cocky heel was literally invented by George. And he did it when the Thesz's and Rogers' of the landscape were making their legend. He was so far ahead of his time, it's ridiculous. He never won the big strap, which is why he's not in the top 3, but he was THE guy to hate in his era and a guy that really didn't need the belt to be timeless. But outside of his arrogance and flamboyance, George was a damn good freestyle wrestler and more than held his own with the Thesz's and Rogers' of his time. I almost wanted to rank him higher than Sammartino, but we'll get to him next.
And there goes the credibility. Because from what I understand, the bolded simply isn't true. George was a regional fighter who couldn't hold Thesz' jockstrap.
And I acknowledged that. But George did more for wrestling than Thesz.
 
14 points- Lou Thesz

Thesz was the first "The Man" of wrestling. I mean the guy was a monster back in his day. Guy worked his ### off and may be the best Greco-Roman wrestler of this draft. But much like Buddy Rogers, it's really hard to rank him any higher than here. Let's face it: who here has seen Lou Thesz wrestle? Anyone? Actually, HighBeams has and he says he's worthy of this spot, so there's one. His day was before anyone in this draft...in fact, he had to come out of retirement to beat Rogers for his 6th world title. Like wrestlers of his era, he wasn't asked to talk, so he was probably duller than dishwater there. But he was the first great wrestler and that definitely earns him a lot of credit.
Looking at the remainder of your list, I don't object to any of the modern giants being ranked above Thesz.I DO object, however, to Gorgeous George being ranked above Thesz. They are somewhat contemporaneous, and Thesz is roundly considered the greater, and more influential, wrestler.
Like I said in my write-up, George did more for modern wrestling than Thesz with his character. He set a mold. Thesz could outwrestle anyone in this draft in his sleep, I'll admit that. But George was no slouch either.
If that's the case, then Hulk Hogan had better be your 20. Because if you rank Hogan below the 20 due to his inability to wrestle as well as some of the other guys, then you are being mighty inconsistent here.
 
16 points- Gorgeous George

George was the biggest mover and shaker in my rankings. I had him ranked pretty doggone low at times, much to my fault. HighBeams actually wanted George to be the 20 pointer, but he's not quite there. But where he scores big points is that he was THE template that the heel wrestler grew off of. The arrogant, cocky heel was literally invented by George. And he did it when the Thesz's and Rogers' of the landscape were making their legend. He was so far ahead of his time, it's ridiculous. He never won the big strap, which is why he's not in the top 3, but he was THE guy to hate in his era and a guy that really didn't need the belt to be timeless. But outside of his arrogance and flamboyance, George was a damn good freestyle wrestler and more than held his own with the Thesz's and Rogers' of his time. I almost wanted to rank him higher than Sammartino, but we'll get to him next.
And there goes the credibility. Because from what I understand, the bolded simply isn't true. George was a regional fighter who couldn't hold Thesz' jockstrap.
George was on TVs everywhere, not just regionally.
 

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