Time to Sell Andre Johnson (1 Viewer)

[Concept Coop]

That's what I said about ten post up and someone said it was a horrible comparison, so be careful. Someone is waiting to tell you that type of statement is irrelevant compared to their scientific "lost a step" statement.But, yeah, for those of us that will dare to question whether a guy has lost a step, despite the fact that his YPC and target numbers/production are still in correlation with his history, excuse us if we don't accept the counter-argument based solely on the vague statement of "lost a step".

YPC and Production per target are very fluid stats. Volume affects them, usually in a negative way.For instance, many NFL WRs can produce Roddy White per/target numbers. But, they couldn't do it on 140 targets. Besides that, we are talking about a 6 game sample; a sample in which Houston running the ball so much, and so well, should open things up through the are. Meaning: it is very possible for him to have lost a step, despite YPT production.

 

[Shutout]

To some people, less FF points = lost step. Last night was pretty much the first time the Texans have trailed in a game. Kubiak is obviously a very conservative coach. He rarely goes for it on 4th down, always content to settle for a field goal in 3rd and long situations, didn't want to get points at the end of the half last night... So why would he throw the ball enough to get AJ 10+ targets a game? Just not going to happen, but the less astute fantasy footballers will scream that he's lost a step and that's why this is happening. Nevermind his stats line up perfectly with his historical stats on a per target basis.

I don't own Johnson, so I have no idea what his stats are like, aside from what has been posted in this thread, and what I notice when I watch. But I have to question anyone claiming Johnson hasn't lost a step. He VERY CLEARLY doesn't have the 4.3 speed anymore.

He is still a great WR, still getting double teamed at a very high rate, and still capable for putting up great numbers when given the chance. But this offense isn't going to give him that chance, often.

I don't know what his speed was a decade ago but I'll agree its probably not the same now. But, hey, couldn't we say that about 85% of players? Reggie Wayne isn't the same guy I watched 8 years ago but he still flat out gets it done. I guess the point is, great players tend to evolve and adapt as they age, but they still remain very good. From watching AJ for "who knows how long", I can tell you I've seen plays this year (against Denver and Miami) that he made that look every bit like plays he made 4 years ago. I can't tell you what the stopwatch says, but I can tell you he beat his man, got behind the defense, and then no one caught him. I can tell you he made difficult catches look easy then and now. I can tell you he went up high and got the ball the defenders couldn't get. And so on and so on.

Honestly, saying "lost a step", in the vast majority of cases in fantasy, is a lazy way of not being able to quantify what a quick glance of a stat sheet suggests. The simplest statement in the world might be to say any athlete isn't as fast as they were ten years ago. But there is SO much more to these games. The Texans aren't the same team they were 4 years ago.

In fantasy, we get WAY to caught up on trying to take the past results and stamp out a cookie pattern for the present, without giving enough thought to things that effectively change. That's why we draft a RB in the first this year based on past results and then launch 20 threads because we can't understand what happened to him.. different year; different situaiton. Some runs are shorter and some are longer. AJ is not the same guy he was in 2008, but he's absolutely not like watching Torry Holt between his last year and two years prior to that.

 

[JuniorNB]

That's what I said about ten post up and someone said it was a horrible comparison, so be careful. Someone is waiting to tell you that type of statement is irrelevant compared to their scientific "lost a step" statement.But, yeah, for those of us that will dare to question whether a guy has lost a step, despite the fact that his YPC and target numbers/production are still in correlation with his history, excuse us if we don't accept the counter-argument based solely on the vague statement of "lost a step".

YPC and Production per target are very fluid stats. Volume affects them, usually in a negative way.For instance, many NFL WRs can produce Roddy White per/target numbers. But, they couldn't do it on 140 targets. Besides that, we are talking about a 6 game sample; a sample in which Houston running the ball so much, and so well, should open things up through the are. Meaning: it is very possible for him to have lost a step, despite YPT production.

It's also very possible that he hasn't and his targets are just way down due to Kubiak's switch to a defensive, clock control team. By the way, Johnson is two years younger than Reggie Wayne. Wayne lost a step last year when his QB was terrible. He miraculously gained it back this year. .

 

[Shutout]

That's what I said about ten post up and someone said it was a horrible comparison, so be careful. Someone is waiting to tell you that type of statement is irrelevant compared to their scientific "lost a step" statement.

But, yeah, for those of us that will dare to question whether a guy has lost a step, despite the fact that his YPC and target numbers/production are still in correlation with his history, excuse us if we don't accept the counter-argument based solely on the vague statement of "lost a step".

YPC and Production per target are very fluid stats. Volume affects them, usually in a negative way.For instance, many NFL WRs can produce Roddy White per/target numbers. But, they couldn't do it on 140 targets.

Besides that, we are talking about a 6 game sample; a sample in which Houston running the ball so much, and so well, should open things up through the are.

Meaning: it is very possible for him to have lost a step, despite YPT production.

But the flip side to that is this: There are at least three games this year (Denver, last night, and one I forget offhand, where AJ had a TD and/or a big gain kicked out of his hand, overthrown by Shaub, or called back on penalty. Point being: that's not Aj not being able to do it, that's the fine razor edge of bad luck, a guy holding, or Champ bailey's foot swinging up. That's about 25-30 more fantasy points, that, in a blink of an eye could EASILY be on AJ's scoring card right now and if that were the case, there wouldn't be a person around talking about the subjective "lost a step".There is a big difference between watching a guy and saying "man, what bad luck..but he was in the right place and targeted." and "Man, he just can't get open."

I'm just saying, I'm watching and I've been watching for a long, long time and I can tell you, it's not the latter.

 

[Concept Coop]

That's what I said about ten post up and someone said it was a horrible comparison, so be careful. Someone is waiting to tell you that type of statement is irrelevant compared to their scientific "lost a step" statement.But, yeah, for those of us that will dare to question whether a guy has lost a step, despite the fact that his YPC and target numbers/production are still in correlation with his history, excuse us if we don't accept the counter-argument based solely on the vague statement of "lost a step".

YPC and Production per target are very fluid stats. Volume affects them, usually in a negative way.For instance, many NFL WRs can produce Roddy White per/target numbers. But, they couldn't do it on 140 targets. Besides that, we are talking about a 6 game sample; a sample in which Houston running the ball so much, and so well, should open things up through the are. Meaning: it is very possible for him to have lost a step, despite YPT production.

It's also very possible that he hasn't and his targets are just way down due to Kubiak's switch to a defensive, clock control team. By the way, Johnson is two years younger than Reggie Wayne. Wayne lost a step last year when his QB was terrible. He miraculously gained it back this year. .

That is absolutely possible, and likely, even, in my opinion. I don't want to sound as though I am suggesting Johnson isn't capable of producing top 5 numbers again, given the chance - I think he is. I just don't think it is fair to jump on those claiming he has lost a step. He doesn't look the same to me; that doesn't mean he looks bad, doesn't mean he isn't elite still. But I don't see the best WR in the NFL when I watch him, the way I once did.

 

[Concept Coop]

But the flip side to that is this: There are at least three games this year (Denver, last night, and one I forget offhand, where AJ had a TD and/or a big gain kicked out of his hand, overthrown by Shaub, or called back on penalty. Point being: that's not Aj not being able to do it, that's the fine razor edge of bad luck, a guy holding, or Champ bailey's foot swinging up. That's about 25-30 more fantasy points, that, in a blink of an eye could EASILY be on AJ's scoring card right now and if that were the case, there wouldn't be a person around talking about the subjective "lost a step".There is a big difference between watching a guy and saying "man, what bad luck..but he was in the right place and targeted." and "Man, he just can't get open."I'm just saying, I'm watching and I've been watching for a long, long time and I can tell you, it's not the latter.

I think we are talking in absolutes that don't need to be there. I think we can all agree that Johnson is capable to do what the offense allows him to do, fantasy wise. I know he is productive per target, and expect that to continue. But, I think he has lost a step. I don't think that is the reason he is not producing top numbers - again, I think the offense is. But I don't think he is quite the same guy, either.

 

[money.never.sleeps]

He has clearly lost a step. Define "how much" however you'd like.

They don't pass enough for him to be a WR1.

So which is it? Like I posted before the next few games are "good" matchups for AJ and I expect him to get targets. Only thing that he's always lacked is big TD #s. Only saw the 1 red zone target last night that was a jump ball. Not sure if he got another since the game got out of hand.

Fact is the Texans philosophy is about running the ball, time of possesion and playing good defense. In saying that anyone who has watched Houston the last 2 seasons already knew this going in so you cant really complain.

And to the guy that was talking about body type comparing AJ to Gates... You need glasses. AJ is one of the best conditioned players in the game.

His busrt is down obviously because of the groin but he can still get open. The line last night wasnt picking up the blitz or sustaining blocking assignments. Schaub was under pressure a lot. Jury is still out for me but like I said I'll be selling him in the next 3-4 game stretch because I believe he's going to preform very well.

*last thing I'll add is.. did anyone else notice the lack of cohesion with the passing offense? It looked out of sorts. The line couldnt pick up assignments and schaub looked very uncomfortable. Running game was also at a stand still. Attributing all of that to the Pack defense but ugh.. somethings really need to get fixed quick for Houston.

 

[Concept Coop]

He has clearly lost a step. Define "how much" however you'd like.

They don't pass enough for him to be a WR1.

So which is it?

Why does it have to be one or the other?

 

[money.never.sleeps]

He has clearly lost a step. Define "how much" however you'd like.

They don't pass enough for him to be a WR1.

So which is it?

Why does it have to be one or the other?

Just asking what your primary issue with AJ is in terms of his value/role.

 

[Concept Coop]

He has clearly lost a step. Define "how much" however you'd like.

They don't pass enough for him to be a WR1.

So which is it?

Why does it have to be one or the other?

Just asking what your primary issue with AJ is in terms of his value/role.

Use, absolutely. He is still very capable of putting up top 5 numbers, if given the chance, in my opinion.

 

[tsarc888]

the disappointing thing yesterday was that the game got so out of hand, AJ owners didn't have a chance to benefit from some garbage time production at the end as he and Schaub were already on the bench.

Texans came into the game averaging 30.4 pass attempts. In this game Schaub threw it is 33 times plus 5 more by Yates. I don't see how Kubiak thought he could keep up by not playing a little more aggressive.

 

[Maven]

Fact is Schaubs ineptness around the goalline (historical fact), the greatness that is Arian Foster and the defensive genius that is Wade Phillips, has transitioned this team from pass first, run 2nd; into a run first, play action pass team.

Andre Johnson's value lies in:

1. Targets

2. yards after the catch

Notice I didn't list touchdowns. He's never been a magnet for pay dirt havnig never been over 10 tds in his career.

The knocks on Andre have been:

1. injury history

2. age

As far as "lost a step"...that may or may not be true because who knows if this guy is battling an injury? We know he injured his groin in the preseason and he may not have fully recovered from that.

That being said...

His value has diminished as a top 5 and 1-2nd round draft pick in fantasy for all the reasons listed above. While his name still holds some weight, 6 weeks in...we pretty much know what we're going to get from the Texans and this offense (I made this thread 2-3 weeks ago). The suggestion to trade him was based off those assumptions and a smart owner would upgrade if they could to a wr with better upside and better opportunity.

Even with his 12 targets this weekend, only 9ypc? really? Andre Johnson? I'll pass

 

[FF Ninja]

To some people, less FF points = lost step. Last night was pretty much the first time the Texans have trailed in a game. Kubiak is obviously a very conservative coach. He rarely goes for it on 4th down, always content to settle for a field goal in 3rd and long situations, didn't want to get points at the end of the half last night... So why would he throw the ball enough to get AJ 10+ targets a game? Just not going to happen, but the less astute fantasy footballers will scream that he's lost a step and that's why this is happening. Nevermind his stats line up perfectly with his historical stats on a per target basis.

I don't own Johnson, so I have no idea what his stats are like, aside from what has been posted in this thread, and what I notice when I watch. But I have to question anyone claiming Johnson hasn't lost a step. He VERY CLEARLY doesn't have the 4.3 speed anymore.

He is still a great WR, still getting double teamed at a very high rate, and still capable for putting up great numbers when given the chance. But this offense isn't going to give him that chance, often.

I don't know what his speed was a decade ago but I'll agree its probably not the same now. But, hey, couldn't we say that about 85% of players? Reggie Wayne isn't the same guy I watched 8 years ago but he still flat out gets it done. I guess the point is, great players tend to evolve and adapt as they age, but they still remain very good. From watching AJ for "who knows how long", I can tell you I've seen plays this year (against Denver and Miami) that he made that look every bit like plays he made 4 years ago. I can't tell you what the stopwatch says, but I can tell you he beat his man, got behind the defense, and then no one caught him. I can tell you he made difficult catches look easy then and now. I can tell you he went up high and got the ball the defenders couldn't get. And so on and so on.

Honestly, saying "lost a step", in the vast majority of cases in fantasy, is a lazy way of not being able to quantify what a quick glance of a stat sheet suggests. The simplest statement in the world might be to say any athlete isn't as fast as they were ten years ago. But there is SO much more to these games. The Texans aren't the same team they were 4 years ago.

In fantasy, we get WAY to caught up on trying to take the past results and stamp out a cookie pattern for the present, without giving enough thought to things that effectively change. That's why we draft a RB in the first this year based on past results and then launch 20 threads because we can't understand what happened to him.. different year; different situaiton. Some runs are shorter and some are longer. AJ is not the same guy he was in 2008, but he's absolutely not like watching Torry Holt between his last year and two years prior to that.

Hit the nail on the head with the bolded. Additionally, can anyone really say that AJ has lost a step just by watching him on a TV or even on a football field? No. Can someone tell me what it means to lose a step? AJ was never a 4.3 guy. I think he was around a 4.41 guy. So did he lose his first step or his last step? Are these steps being measured in a 40 yard distance? If so, maybe we're talking about a 4.45 guy instead of a 4.41 guy. Whether he's lost this mythical step or not, his production per target is the same as it always was. No need to get lazy and start guessing about steps because it is obvious to any rational person that the targets are difference. With the running game apparently faltering, perhaps the targets start to increase and suddenly people think maybe he found that step they thought he had lost.I know people thought that LT lost a couple steps and then found them when he went from SD to the Jets. Funny how that works in fantasy football.

 

[tsarc888]

I know he got the targets and and 86 yds is encouraging but I find myself asking the question.....is 86 yds really something to get excited about? I've tried to hang in there but will be exploring selling him now if there is still some name value. May try to package an RB with AJ to upgrade to a true WR1.

 

[Mr. Black]

The only problem with AJ is Schaub. Schaub has a very weak arm and struggles to hit AJ on deep routes. He also struggles getting the ball to WR's near the goal line. Schaub can't read coverage very well and is most effective in a playaction or bootleg situation. I have watched every game the Texans have ever played and there have been coutnless times when AJ has his man beat on a deep post or double move down the side line and he has to stop and wait for the ball because Schaub under threw him again. Schaub is a average QB and Kubiak realized that a few years back and made the transition to more of a running team and play good def. I don't think he has lost any steps, I still see him run by defenders every week. Does he have the same clock speed he had a decade ago? Probably not but who does? He is still one of the best WR's in the NFL but fantasy not so much due to bad QB play, a change in game plan and injuries.

 

[Concept Coop]

Hit the nail on the head with the bolded. Additionally, can anyone really say that AJ has lost a step just by watching him on a TV or even on a football field? No. Can someone tell me what it means to lose a step? AJ was never a 4.3 guy. I think he was around a 4.41 guy. So did he lose his first step or his last step? Are these steps being measured in a 40 yard distance? If so, maybe we're talking about a 4.45 guy instead of a 4.41 guy. Whether he's lost this mythical step or not, his production per target is the same as it always was. No need to get lazy and start guessing about steps because it is obvious to any rational person that the targets are difference. With the running game apparently faltering, perhaps the targets start to increase and suddenly people think maybe he found that step they thought he had lost.I know people thought that LT lost a couple steps and then found them when he went from SD to the Jets. Funny how that works in fantasy football.

He was a 4.3 guy. And yes, from watching, I can say that he has lost a step. Is that why he isn't producing? No; at least, not the major reason.

 

[jamil]

Is he the same Andre that almost won the pro bowl fastest man race while being about 3 inches and 30 lbs bigger than the rest of the competition? No. Is he still a top 5 wr that can outrun almost all DBs? Yes.

 

[tsarc888]

Is he the same Andre that almost won the pro bowl fastest man race while being about 3 inches and 30 lbs bigger than the rest of the competition? No. Is he still a top 5 wr that can outrun almost all DBs? Yes.

but whether or not he is still a top 5 WR that can outrun all DB's is not relevant to fantasy football 2012 production. It may be good for the Texans to have that weapon but I think we are far enough into the season to say that it doesn't appear he is going to produce as a top 5 FANTASY WR.

 

[silentcoach]

The only positive AJ owners can take is his dbl digit targets the last two weeks.

 

[Sonny Lubick Blowup Doll]

I know he got the targets and and 86 yds is encouraging but I find myself asking the question.....is 86 yds really something to get excited about? I've tried to hang in there but will be exploring selling him now if there is still some name value. May try to package an RB with AJ to upgrade to a true WR1.

But wait, you do realize what kind of shape he's in, right???

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

I know he got the targets and and 86 yds is encouraging but I find myself asking the question.....is 86 yds really something to get excited about? I've tried to hang in there but will be exploring selling him now if there is still some name value. May try to package an RB with AJ to upgrade to a true WR1.

You realize if he averaged 86 yards a game for 16 games he would end the year with 1,376 yards right?I don't know what your expectations are out of WR's but there were only 4 guys all of last year that bettered that mark.

 

[tsarc888]

I know he got the targets and and 86 yds is encouraging but I find myself asking the question.....is 86 yds really something to get excited about? I've tried to hang in there but will be exploring selling him now if there is still some name value. May try to package an RB with AJ to upgrade to a true WR1.

You realize if he averaged 86 yards a game for 16 games he would end the year with 1,376 yards right?I don't know what your expectations are out of WR's but there were only 4 guys all of last year that bettered that mark.

yes, but this was his highest output since week 1. So yeah, if he was gonna do that every week with a TD every other week, that's be more than fine. However, he's on pace for 1,015 yds and 4.5 TD's. Whatever the reason, it's my opinion we are far enough into the season to accept the fact the Texans aren't likely to use him anymore like they did in his prime. Others are of course free to disagree and make their case why he's gonna have a huge 2nd half. Believe me, I'd love to be convinced.

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

I know he got the targets and and 86 yds is encouraging but I find myself asking the question.....is 86 yds really something to get excited about? I've tried to hang in there but will be exploring selling him now if there is still some name value. May try to package an RB with AJ to upgrade to a true WR1.

You realize if he averaged 86 yards a game for 16 games he would end the year with 1,376 yards right?I don't know what your expectations are out of WR's but there were only 4 guys all of last year that bettered that mark.

yes, but this was his highest output since week 1. So yeah, if he was gonna do that every week with a TD every other week, that's be more than fine. However, he's on pace for 1,015 yds and 4.5 TD's. Whatever the reason, it's my opinion we are far enough into the season to accept the fact the Texans aren't likely to use him anymore like they did in his prime. Others are of course free to disagree and make their case why he's gonna have a huge 2nd half. Believe me, I'd love to be convinced.

I get that when you draft a player like AJ you want consistency. This is what has made AJ such a stud throughout his fantasy career. His concern in previous years was always his injury history. If he was healthy and played you knew that you were going to get a very good game out of AJ.I am of the believer that he will end up being more consistent and a lot more in line with his career averages throughout the second half of this season. He has caught 17 balls his last 2 weeks and it appears they are making an effort to get their best WR involved in the game more. As I have stated throughout this thread, Aj is still an elite WR in the NFL. AJ will reward those who are and have been patient. In fantasy he has had a couple of stinkers and therefore it has left many too question what AJ has left. He still has plenty left going forward.

 

[tsarc888]

I know he got the targets and and 86 yds is encouraging but I find myself asking the question.....is 86 yds really something to get excited about? I've tried to hang in there but will be exploring selling him now if there is still some name value. May try to package an RB with AJ to upgrade to a true WR1.

You realize if he averaged 86 yards a game for 16 games he would end the year with 1,376 yards right?I don't know what your expectations are out of WR's but there were only 4 guys all of last year that bettered that mark.

yes, but this was his highest output since week 1. So yeah, if he was gonna do that every week with a TD every other week, that's be more than fine. However, he's on pace for 1,015 yds and 4.5 TD's. Whatever the reason, it's my opinion we are far enough into the season to accept the fact the Texans aren't likely to use him anymore like they did in his prime. Others are of course free to disagree and make their case why he's gonna have a huge 2nd half. Believe me, I'd love to be convinced.

I get that when you draft a player like AJ you want consistency. This is what has made AJ such a stud throughout his fantasy career. His concern in previous years was always his injury history. If he was healthy and played you knew that you were going to get a very good game out of AJ.I am of the believer that he will end up being more consistent and a lot more in line with his career averages throughout the second half of this season. He has caught 17 balls his last 2 weeks and it appears they are making an effort to get their best WR involved in the game more. As I have stated throughout this thread, Aj is still an elite WR in the NFL. AJ will reward those who are and have been patient. In fantasy he has had a couple of stinkers and therefore it has left many too question what AJ has left. He still has plenty left going forward.

yeah, it's crazy. The health was the perceived risk not lack of usage. I'm poking around but certainly don't want to unload him cheaply.

 

[bweiser]

i gave him away. i don't care.

i traded johnson and michael turner for kendall wright and jeremy maclin.

my team is so old it has an AARP card. i just decided it was time.

funny thing, i tried for so long to trade for johnson and had him for less than a year.

guess he just wasn't meant to be on my team.

 

[Jstack34]

The only positive AJ owners can take is his dbl digit targets the last two weeks.

And the high volume catches

 

[⚡DEADHEAD⚡]

He'll get his catches and yards, he won't get the TDs. Feels like the offense isn't designed for it. Inside the 20, it's run time, maybe some TE action. As opposed to a team like the Bears, inside the 10, you know Cutler is thinking about getting it to Marshall and there's a good shot it will happen (like tonight).

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

8 catches for 118 yards on 10 targets.

It appears he is just fine.

 

[Nucker101]

8 catches for 118 yards on 10 targets.It appears he is just fine.

He did play the Bills, but it was a solid game nonetheless. Still doesn't look as explosive to me as he once was, but knows hot go use his size and strength to get open, and still has good speed for a guy his size.

 

[SacramentoBob]

8 catches for 118 yards on 10 targets.It appears he is just fine.

Still fine?

 

[johnb]

8 catches for 118 yards on 10 targets.It appears he is just fine.

Still fine?

Yeah. He was targeted heavily in a sloppy game. Missed by inches on a 20 yard or so post route. Not sure what people expect from WR's anymore. Seems like if a guy doesnt go for 150/2, he's a bum.

 

[SacramentoBob]

8 catches for 118 yards on 10 targets.It appears he is just fine.

Still fine?

Yeah. He was targeted heavily in a sloppy game. Missed by inches on a 20 yard or so post route. Not sure what people expect from WR's anymore. Seems like if a guy doesnt go for 150/2, he's a bum.

This would be a fair criticism if he wasn't currently WR30 something.

 

[JuniorNB]

His problem is his lack of touchdowns. His targets/receptions ahve been solid recently. TDs tend to come in waves. Ask Calvin Johnson. He could go ona scoring roll and this whole thread will be considered a joke.

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

8 catches for 118 yards on 10 targets.It appears he is just fine.

Still fine?

Yes, very much fine. It was a sloppy game where his starting QB threw for 95 yards. They went super conservative after the second Schaub interception. He was open on many of those missed targets last night. No need to worry.

 

[Shutout]

8 catches for 118 yards on 10 targets.It appears he is just fine.

Still fine?

Yes, very much fine. It was a sloppy game where his starting QB threw for 95 yards. They went super conservative after the second Schaub interception. He was open on many of those missed targets last night. No need to worry.

Agree. The targets were there (10), the weather was horrible. I'm not willing to make weather an excuse but it DOES expalin the mind-set when you are winning a tough game on the the road against a very good team and you become very conservative as the Texans did as they tried to ensure they won the game. For us fantasy people, I'm sure we wanted them throwing it to AJ with 4:30 left in the 4th quarter but in real life, that obviously wasn't what the Texans needed. The overall "problem" with the Texans is that the texans are now a very good team with a very good collection of coaches that know how to make gameplans. In the past, they threw more because they had to. That doesn't mean AJ can't do it. There are teams in the NFL now that have good teams but they blow leads and do things they shouldn't be doing. You don't see that from the Texans...ever. When they get you down, they put their boot to your throat. They don't beat themselves. Its what makes foster so valuable and, unfortuantely, AJ less valuable now. But make no mistake, he can still do it and when you see a game like, Texans @ Patriots coming up, that might be a really nice fantasy playoff game for you.

 

[Chase Stuart]

I missed the boat on this guy. He's been barely startable this year. I went WR heavy in my draft, and have Cruz, Johnson, Steve Johnson.... and then took fliers on Denarious Moore, Malcom Floyd and Josh Gordon. At this point I just wish I never drafted either Johnson. Both are really frustrating to watch.

I don't even know what's a good matchup for AJ anymore.

 

[Black]

You are over thinking this. You need to start crunching numbers and understand what is/has transpired and make an educated guess as to what the Texans will do going forward. Right now I believe you are wrong and I will explain why.AJ is easily still a top 10 WR in the league. He has had some injuries and although he may not be the blazing beast he was 10 years ago he has not lost as much of a step as you think he has. AJ's targets and Yards Per Catch the last 4 years...In 2008, 171 targets, 10.7 targets per game, 13.7 ypc In 2009, 170 targets, 10.6 targets per game, 15.5 ypcIn 2010, 138 targets in 13 games so 10.6 targets per game, 14.1Last year in 2011, it is skewed as he only played 6 games, but in a couple of those games he only played a quarter of those games before going down to injuries, however he still averaged 8.5 targets per game (it would have been at 10 had he played full games), 14.9 ypc-Andre Johnson career YPC is 13.7 ypc.-Over his career AJ has caught anywhere from 58 to 61% of the balls that come his way.Now this year tell me what number is just a little off to start the year.-AJ ypc 14.3-Catching 59% of his passes-His targets 7 per game on pace for 112Now look at the box score and tell me when AJ got his normal targets per game of around 10 targets per game tell me how AJ faired.game 1 - 8 catches 119 yards, 1 td, 10 targets game 2 - 3 catches 21 yards, 0 td, 4 targets game 3 - 2 catcehs 72 yards, 1 td, 4 targets game 3 - 3 catches 56 yards, 0 td, 6 targets game 5 - 1 catch 15 yards, 0 td, 6 targets game 6 - 8 catches 75 yards, 0 td, 12 targetsSo in conclusion if AJ is targeted more as I am assuming he will end up being closer to his 10 targets a game vs the 7 he is on pace for now then you will see more of the AJ of old. His YPC is still fine and his catch percentage is still fine. Some people pretend as if they can tell how much of a step he has lost, but if you look deeper than you will realize it is not as big of a reason as the decline as is the targets and the way the games have played out so far.

 

[FF Ninja]

8 catches for 118 yards on 10 targets.It appears he is just fine.

Still fine?

Yeah. He was targeted heavily in a sloppy game. Missed by inches on a 20 yard or so post route. Not sure what people expect from WR's anymore. Seems like if a guy doesnt go for 150/2, he's a bum.

This would be a fair criticism if he wasn't currently WR30 something.

I thought you were busy trolling Ryan Mathews thread. Apparently you are making trolling a full time gig.

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

I missed the boat on this guy. He's been barely startable this year. I went WR heavy in my draft, and have Cruz, Johnson, Steve Johnson.... and then took fliers on Denarious Moore, Malcom Floyd and Josh Gordon. At this point I just wish I never drafted either Johnson. Both are really frustrating to watch. I don't even know what's a good matchup for AJ anymore.

Staff material

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

i gave him away. i don't care.i traded johnson and michael turner for kendall wright and jeremy maclin.my team is so old it has an AARP card. i just decided it was time.funny thing, i tried for so long to trade for johnson and had him for less than a year.guess he just wasn't meant to be on my team.

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

I missed the boat on this guy. He's been barely startable this year. I went WR heavy in my draft, and have Cruz, Johnson, Steve Johnson.... and then took fliers on Denarious Moore, Malcom Floyd and Josh Gordon. At this point I just wish I never drafted either Johnson. Both are really frustrating to watch. I don't even know what's a good matchup for AJ anymore.

Staff material

Chase is usually quite good, but he obviously missed my posts on what was happening with AJ and who he still is.

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

You are over thinking this. You need to start crunching numbers and understand what is/has transpired and make an educated guess as to what the Texans will do going forward. Right now I believe you are wrong and I will explain why.AJ is easily still a top 10 WR in the league. He has had some injuries and although he may not be the blazing beast he was 10 years ago he has not lost as much of a step as you think he has. AJ's targets and Yards Per Catch the last 4 years...In 2008, 171 targets, 10.7 targets per game, 13.7 ypc In 2009, 170 targets, 10.6 targets per game, 15.5 ypcIn 2010, 138 targets in 13 games so 10.6 targets per game, 14.1Last year in 2011, it is skewed as he only played 6 games, but in a couple of those games he only played a quarter of those games before going down to injuries, however he still averaged 8.5 targets per game (it would have been at 10 had he played full games), 14.9 ypc-Andre Johnson career YPC is 13.7 ypc.-Over his career AJ has caught anywhere from 58 to 61% of the balls that come his way.Now this year tell me what number is just a little off to start the year.-AJ ypc 14.3-Catching 59% of his passes-His targets 7 per game on pace for 112Now look at the box score and tell me when AJ got his normal targets per game of around 10 targets per game tell me how AJ faired.game 1 - 8 catches 119 yards, 1 td, 10 targets game 2 - 3 catches 21 yards, 0 td, 4 targets game 3 - 2 catcehs 72 yards, 1 td, 4 targets game 3 - 3 catches 56 yards, 0 td, 6 targets game 5 - 1 catch 15 yards, 0 td, 6 targets game 6 - 8 catches 75 yards, 0 td, 12 targetsSo in conclusion if AJ is targeted more as I am assuming he will end up being closer to his 10 targets a game vs the 7 he is on pace for now then you will see more of the AJ of old. His YPC is still fine and his catch percentage is still fine. Some people pretend as if they can tell how much of a step he has lost, but if you look deeper than you will realize it is not as big of a reason as the decline as is the targets and the way the games have played out so far.

He has clearly lost a step. Define "how much" however you'd like.The Texans will be grinding games out a lot more than they will be playing catch up early in the game. Yesterday was an outlier - not the 4-6 target games. They don't pass enough for him to be a WR1.

To some people, it's not possible that his targets are decreasing BECAUSE he's lost a step.

THIS is WHY you DONT overREACT based on a few games without 12 targets and 100/tdHTH

 

[money.never.sleeps]

well I dealt AJ/Wallace for Cobb/Luck/Murray and took him (AJ) out of my starting lineup because I thought the trade would process before the start of games. It didnt and Im pretty pissed off about it.

 

[Onions]

Mofos act like they forgot about Dre.

 

[Yolkix]

Andre Johnson is one of the best wide receivers in the NFL PERIOD. He might not always have a big fantasy game, but with the exception of the Bears game (A defensive battle in pouring down rain), he has been great for weeks now. Haters gonna hate.

 

[cobalt_27]

You are over thinking this. You need to start crunching numbers and understand what is/has transpired and make an educated guess as to what the Texans will do going forward. Right now I believe you are wrong and I will explain why.AJ is easily still a top 10 WR in the league. He has had some injuries and although he may not be the blazing beast he was 10 years ago he has not lost as much of a step as you think he has. AJ's targets and Yards Per Catch the last 4 years...In 2008, 171 targets, 10.7 targets per game, 13.7 ypc In 2009, 170 targets, 10.6 targets per game, 15.5 ypcIn 2010, 138 targets in 13 games so 10.6 targets per game, 14.1Last year in 2011, it is skewed as he only played 6 games, but in a couple of those games he only played a quarter of those games before going down to injuries, however he still averaged 8.5 targets per game (it would have been at 10 had he played full games), 14.9 ypc-Andre Johnson career YPC is 13.7 ypc.-Over his career AJ has caught anywhere from 58 to 61% of the balls that come his way.Now this year tell me what number is just a little off to start the year.-AJ ypc 14.3-Catching 59% of his passes-His targets 7 per game on pace for 112Now look at the box score and tell me when AJ got his normal targets per game of around 10 targets per game tell me how AJ faired.game 1 - 8 catches 119 yards, 1 td, 10 targets game 2 - 3 catches 21 yards, 0 td, 4 targets game 3 - 2 catcehs 72 yards, 1 td, 4 targets game 3 - 3 catches 56 yards, 0 td, 6 targets game 5 - 1 catch 15 yards, 0 td, 6 targets game 6 - 8 catches 75 yards, 0 td, 12 targetsSo in conclusion if AJ is targeted more as I am assuming he will end up being closer to his 10 targets a game vs the 7 he is on pace for now then you will see more of the AJ of old. His YPC is still fine and his catch percentage is still fine. Some people pretend as if they can tell how much of a step he has lost, but if you look deeper than you will realize it is not as big of a reason as the decline as is the targets and the way the games have played out so far.

He has clearly lost a step. Define "how much" however you'd like.The Texans will be grinding games out a lot more than they will be playing catch up early in the game. Yesterday was an outlier - not the 4-6 target games. They don't pass enough for him to be a WR1.

To some people, it's not possible that his targets are decreasing BECAUSE he's lost a step.

THIS is WHY you DONT overREACT based on a few games without 12 targets and 100/tdHTH

Thank you.

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

I wonder if those who were preaching he was done being a great WR or saying he has lost a step will chime in now?

 

[silentcoach]

His production per target was never the issue. You can see how given more targets, he can still produce as a #1.

 

[lod01]

i gave him away. i don't care.i traded johnson and michael turner for kendall wright and jeremy maclin.my team is so old it has an AARP card. i just decided it was time.funny thing, i tried for so long to trade for johnson and had him for less than a year.guess he just wasn't meant to be on my team.

This post may have marked the exact time that Andre Johnson moved back into #1 WR stud status.