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timschochet's thread - Ranking hemorrhoids (1 Viewer)

John Wall. :lmao:
oof. Doesn't get too much dumber than that.
Did he do something other than make the observation that a significantly worse player is making the same amount of money as him do to recent salary inflation?
Like lead his team to postseason success, for example? No, he didn't.

He also didn't note how eerily similar his yearly contractual earnings have been to Lebron's since signing that deal.

It's the NBA: everyone from the pretty good to the great make the same on the floor. You want to spit on your underlings? Achieve something, then make ten times more than they do as residuals off the accolades. :shrug:
He's far and away the best player on one of only two teams to win a playoff series each of the last two seasons. That's not postseason success? Sounds like postseason success to me. Are you saying the only thing that counts as postseason success is winning a title? If so, that sounds a lot like the moronic RINGGGZZZZ!!!! argument spouted by the Baylesses of the world and echoed by the league's dumbest and most annoying fans and mocked by everyone else. Is that your position?

He started the all-star game. That's not an achievement? If it's not something you have to achieve, then why doesn't Reggie Jackson just walk onto the floor for the opening tip of the game?

The funny thing is he didn't even say he's underpaid (although he obviously is, as are all the league's stars). He didn't say he resents Jackson or "spit on him"- in fact he said the opposite, saying he was happy for him and others like him. He merely made a valid observation about the rapidly changing financial landscape. Sure, the basis of his position that things are a little off is that he's better at basketball than Jackson, but I assume every human being on earth- even Jackson- would agree with that assessment.

Meanwhile, Adam Silver actually did say something absurd and laughable yesterday, and nobody bats an eye.
"I guess they came in at the right time. That new CBA kicked in, and they're good now. Reggie Jackson gets five years, $80 million. I'm getting the same as Reggie Jackson."
Scathing stuff.

 
John Wall. :lmao:
oof. Doesn't get too much dumber than that.
Did he do something other than make the observation that a significantly worse player is making the same amount of money as him do to recent salary inflation?
Like lead his team to postseason success, for example? No, he didn't.He also didn't note how eerily similar his yearly contractual earnings have been to Lebron's since signing that deal.

It's the NBA: everyone from the pretty good to the great make the same on the floor. You want to spit on your underlings? Achieve something, then make ten times more than they do as residuals off the accolades. :shrug:
Wall has won multiple playoff series and established himself as one of the best players in the league. He's allowed to comment that Reggie Jackson is a mediocre player making more than him.

 
Of course he's allowed, but he's still going to come off as a whiny #####, in particular because he saw fit to drag one particular guy through the passive aggressive muck while doing it. A guy who also, BTW, has won multiple playoff series, established himself as one of the most underrated PG's in the league, and would have had any number of suitors lining up to offer him John Wall money as a PG whose underlying numbers pretty much demanded that level of financial respect. He hasn't been an All Star in large part because he was behind Westbrook. Wall ain't no Westbrook either. :shrug:

"I think it's great that everyone is making what I'm making now. I'm happy for them. But let's face it: that guy's still just Reggie Jackson."

It's a PR disaster and a ####ing stupid thing to say.

I'm guessing the vote about who is the better NBA PG will be a lot closer than you imagine by this time next year.

 
And while fans complain about a totally innocuous Wall quote, Silver shovels mountains of horse#### on behalf of his bosses and gets away with it because the fans are stupid enough to buy it and think that they players and their crazy salaries are at fault for the league's past and future lockouts.

Great line from Ziller here:

This is beautiful, disgusting rhetoric. A seven-figure career administrator has the temerity to compare artificially-capped entertainer salaries to those of teachers and doctors on behalf of the interests of a cartel of billionaire hedge fund hawks, tech boomers, real estate developers and man-child heirs. That's pretty damn rich, Commish.
 
I think any outrage towards Wall is silly. At the same time, has I been around when that quote happened, I hope I would have mentioned to Wall that he makes more per game than HOF's made per season 30 years ago, so his timing isn't so bad.

 
I think any outrage towards Wall is silly. At the same time, has I been around when that quote happened, I hope I would have mentioned to Wall that he makes more per game than HOF's made per season 30 years ago, so his timing isn't so bad.
Not sure outrage is the right word. He said something dumb. People are saying he said something dumb. End of story :shrug:

 
Fun fact stolen from Reddit: The Mavericks have 3 point guards that were born on June 26, 1984 (Deron Williams, JJ Barea, and Raymond Felton). Someone better at math than I am claimed there's a 0.00182% chance of that happening on a 15 player roster.
Neighbor across the street where I grew up had been married 3 different times, each woman was named Rita. 0.000069% chance of that happening in my home town.

 
Of course he's allowed, but he's still going to come off as a whiny #####, in particular because he saw fit to drag one particular guy through the passive aggressive muck while doing it. A guy who also, BTW, has won multiple playoff series, established himself as one of the most underrated PG's in the league, and would have had any number of suitors lining up to offer him John Wall money as a PG whose underlying numbers pretty much demanded that level of financial respect. He hasn't been an All Star in large part because he was behind Westbrook. Wall ain't no Westbrook either. :shrug:

"I think it's great that everyone is making what I'm making now. I'm happy for them. But let's face it: that guy's still just Reggie Jackson."

It's a PR disaster and a ####ing stupid thing to say.

I'm guessing the vote about who is the better NBA PG will be a lot closer than you imagine by this time next year.
If what Wall had said was actually as bad as you claim, you wouldn't have to make up stuff he didn't say to attribute to him.

It's nice that you're the world's biggest Reggie Jackson fan, really. And I agree, he's a perfectly good player, perhaps underrated, and possibly only a tier or two below John Wall... if you don't think defense is a thing that exists and has value. But the only people who are bothered by what he said are people looking for a reason to complain about John Wall. You and Cowherd, really. PR disaster? Come on. This will be completely forgotten by the weekend, maybe sooner.

 
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I think any outrage towards Wall is silly. At the same time, has I been around when that quote happened, I hope I would have mentioned to Wall that he makes more per game than HOF's made per season 30 years ago, so his timing isn't so bad.
Not sure outrage is the right word. He said something dumb. People are saying he said something dumb. End of story :shrug:
Outraged! Everyone is outraged over this! And NOBODY on planet Earth is bothered by Silver firing his first shot in the next CBA negotiations. No one.

 
I think any outrage towards Wall is silly. At the same time, has I been around when that quote happened, I hope I would have mentioned to Wall that he makes more per game than HOF's made per season 30 years ago, so his timing isn't so bad.
Not sure outrage is the right word. He said something dumb. People are saying he said something dumb. End of story :shrug:
Outraged! Everyone is outraged over this! And NOBODY on planet Earth is bothered by Silver firing his first shot in the next CBA negotiations. No one.
I think because every media member already expects a lockout. The NBAPA is going to hyperaggressive as well, so I'll await their response, assuming they can get LeBron off the late-night circuit and Paul off the banana boat.

 
Thomas Robinson (NETS!) tore his meniscus. Poor guy.
He's cursed.

May as well trade him to the Clippers at this point. Can't get any worse.

Meniscus injuries have a wide range of severity and recovery time. Robinson tore a meniscus in 2011 during his sophomore season of college ball. He had surgery on it, and was back on the court in two weeks. He missed just as many games that season to attend family funerals. (Did I mention he's cursed?)

 
I think any outrage towards Wall is silly. At the same time, has I been around when that quote happened, I hope I would have mentioned to Wall that he makes more per game than HOF's made per season 30 years ago, so his timing isn't so bad.
Not sure outrage is the right word. He said something dumb. People are saying he said something dumb. End of story :shrug:
Outraged! Everyone is outraged over this! And NOBODY on planet Earth is bothered by Silver firing his first shot in the next CBA negotiations. No one.
I think because every media member already expects a lockout. The NBAPA is going to hyperaggressive as well, so I'll await their response, assuming they can get LeBron off the late-night circuit and Paul off the banana boat.
This could be the year they seriously threaten to just form a new league. That would be something to see. If they even started serious discussions with rich guys/promoters/facilities the ####storm would be epic, maybe even worth losing a month or two of the regular season.

 
I think any outrage towards Wall is silly. At the same time, has I been around when that quote happened, I hope I would have mentioned to Wall that he makes more per game than HOF's made per season 30 years ago, so his timing isn't so bad.
Not sure outrage is the right word. He said something dumb. People are saying he said something dumb. End of story :shrug:
Outraged! Everyone is outraged over this! And NOBODY on planet Earth is bothered by Silver firing his first shot in the next CBA negotiations. No one.
To be completely realistic, stuff like this is essentially in Silver's job description. He's done a pretty good job relative to what the position is, but he has the same bosses that Stern had.

 
Fun fact stolen from Reddit: The Mavericks have 3 point guards that were born on June 26, 1984 (Deron Williams, JJ Barea, and Raymond Felton). Someone better at math than I am claimed there's a 0.00182% chance of that happening on a 15 player roster.
I share a birthday (day and year) with the great Nomah Garciaparra AND Monica Lewinsky. I win? :oldunsure:

 
On the MSG Network the Knick announcers said the Lakers fans were booing D'Angelo Russell during their game.

:confused:
Some Laker fans are impatient. Case in point, a buddy of mine texted me the other day "I'm calling it now - Russell is a bust who got overrated during the draft process and we were idiots to pass on Okafor".

We're 3 games into summer league. It's mid-July, and Ruseell is 19.
la lakers fans are truly the best in the business brohans

 
I think any outrage towards Wall is silly. At the same time, has I been around when that quote happened, I hope I would have mentioned to Wall that he makes more per game than HOF's made per season 30 years ago, so his timing isn't so bad.
Not sure outrage is the right word. He said something dumb. People are saying he said something dumb. End of story :shrug:
Outraged! Everyone is outraged over this! And NOBODY on planet Earth is bothered by Silver firing his first shot in the next CBA negotiations. No one.
To be completely realistic, stuff like this is essentially in Silver's job description. He's done a pretty good job relative to what the position is, but he has the same bosses that Stern had.
Stuff like this is also where I take GunZ's side about the false nobility of players taking pay cuts to sacrifice for the good of the team. There's plenty of money for everyone involved to get filthy rich. Heck, Donald Sterling bought the Clippers for $12.5MM and sold it for $2 BILLION. Not even Isiah Thomas could lose money over the course of that deal.

 
I think any outrage towards Wall is silly. At the same time, has I been around when that quote happened, I hope I would have mentioned to Wall that he makes more per game than HOF's made per season 30 years ago, so his timing isn't so bad.
Not sure outrage is the right word. He said something dumb. People are saying he said something dumb. End of story :shrug:
Outraged! Everyone is outraged over this! And NOBODY on planet Earth is bothered by Silver firing his first shot in the next CBA negotiations. No one.
I think because every media member already expects a lockout. The NBAPA is going to hyperaggressive as well, so I'll await their response, assuming they can get LeBron off the late-night circuit and Paul off the banana boat.
This could be the year they seriously threaten to just form a new league. That would be something to see. If they even started serious discussions with rich guys/promoters/facilities the ####storm would be epic, maybe even worth losing a month or two of the regular season.
I wouldn't be shocked...the owners and players are going to be at such diametrically opposite poles on these negotiations that it'll be really hard to come to any quick agreement. The NBAPA already feels like they got ripped off last time and have already built up a war chest, so they'll be able to wait this out some.

I'd sort of be surprised if they went the league route, though I'm sure they've already looked into it. Finding amenable arenas and a network to put the games on would be the tough part.

 
A new league would be tough to pull off, but some different tournaments could make some serious money for the players during a prolonged lockout.

How much would Fox/CBS/NBC/Yahoo pay for an NCAA tourney style 16 team 5 on 5 tournament. They could pay per view the team "draft" for gazillions.

Have another tournament, Olympics style with pool play and knockout rounds for 3 on 3 teams. How much would Gatorade pay to put their name/logo on the jerseys of the Lebron/Wade/Bosh team? How about a Bank of America (BOFA) team featuring Giffin/Jordan/Parsons? Throw in a dunk contest where the top players actually participate, just to screw with the league.

I'm sure there would be plenty of NBA-deemed "out of date" areanas that would be more than happy to help stick it to the NBA like the Fabulous Forum, the Pond, or even better have it up in Seattle.

Ok, now I'm actually rooting for a lockout.

 
A new league would be tough to pull off, but some different tournaments could make some serious money for the players during a prolonged lockout.

How much would Fox/CBS/NBC/Yahoo pay for an NCAA tourney style 16 team 5 on 5 tournament. They could pay per view the team "draft" for gazillions.

Have another tournament, Olympics style with pool play and knockout rounds for 3 on 3 teams. How much would Gatorade pay to put their name/logo on the jerseys of the Lebron/Wade/Bosh team? How about a Bank of America (BOFA) team featuring Giffin/Jordan/Parsons? Throw in a dunk contest where the top players actually participate, just to screw with the league.

I'm sure there would be plenty of NBA-deemed "out of date" areanas that would be more than happy to help stick it to the NBA like the Fabulous Forum, the Pond, or even better have it up in Seattle.

Ok, now I'm actually rooting for a lockout.
Billy's Bail Bonds would love to get their name on the Lawson/Kobe/Beasley trio.

 
The state senate is in session now and a vote to approve the arena might take place tonight. Not sure of any details other than both parties are voting for the arena and not just a Republican backed thing or Democrat backed thing. I think the amount comes to about $250 million or so but not sure overall. Not sure how this is going to get raised either as of yet.

 
The state senate is in session now and a vote to approve the arena might take place tonight. Not sure of any details other than both parties are voting for the arena and not just a Republican backed thing or Democrat backed thing. I think the amount comes to about $250 million or so but not sure overall. Not sure how this is going to get raised either as of yet.
By the vote of... 21-10... the senate bill is approved for financing of a new arena. Two senators were absent.

A ticket tax of $2 per ticket is added to help pay. Milwaukee county needs to come up with $4 million a year.

The Wisconsin assembly is next to vote.

 
At that rate might as well just talk about 3 teams in the whole NBA as affecting the championship picture.
Only three teams do affect the championship picture.
A core of Paul-Griffin-Jordan, with some good injury luck, some good personnel moves around those 3, and with the Royal Rumble that is the WC playoff bracket, could win the title. It's a pretty long shot, but definitely not impossible. They would be frightening if they'd had a decent GM at the controls these past couple years.
A healthy Memphis is still a factor as well.

Plus the odds of GS having literally every playoff team but them suffer injuries again is pretty slim. Time to wash off that horseshoe and pass it on.
It's not all luck. :shrug:
Of course not but if they catch an injury there are several teams in the West that can beat them. And let's face it, they'd have been lucky to take a game off of a fully healthy Cavs team.
Stinky bait. Not even Todem would think so homerishly.

 
For the record, I hate the Kanter match. 18M per year is waaaaaaaay too much even when the cap increases, and McGary is a better player IMO.
McGary showed promise but he's not there yet. Kanter can produce (offensively) every night. I'm not a huge fan of paying him this much, but I think it was the right move.This piece over the Kanter match was an interesting read - this tidbit really sticking out in particular:

Kanter is a 23-year-old double-double workhorse who gave the Thunder 18.7 points and 11.0 rebounds in 26 games the previous season. He provides the Thunder something they've never had to complement Westbrook and Durant: a low block monster who can be effective inside and out. Before Kanter arrived at the February trade deadline, no Thunder center in the Oklahoma City era had ever produced a 20-point, 10-rebound game. Kanter had 11 in 26 games. (For a little more perspective, DeAndre Jordan had seven total the past season. Dwight Howard had 11. Al Horford had seven. Blake Griffin had nine. Marc Gasol had eight. No, Kanter isn't better than them, but he does produce.)
There was no non-OKC era for the Thunder.

 
Kanter is a statistical monster, no question about that. 18.7 PPG, 11 RPG, 24.9 PER, .611 TS%. Those are excellent numbers.

But is all that enough to make up for being First-Team No-Defense?

* Enes Kanter, Oklahoma City. I don’t know what the Thunder thought it was getting when it traded for Kanter in February, but… what… a… defensive… disaster.

Kanter can score, no doubt, and he looks like a big man who should be able to play the pick-and-roll. But he can’t. He truly cannot.

He either doesn’t know how or doesn’t want to or just has a supreme talent for doing exactly the wrong thing whenever his man comes over to screen a guard.

Kanter’s so bad that opponents basically just call pick-and-rolls when he’s in the game, and if you can’t guard the pick-and-roll, you are doomed.

Among centers who get regular time in this league, there are several really porous defenders–and Kanter is by far the worst. He’s awful. I don’t think there’s any way he turns into even a half-way mediocre defender at any point in his career, it’s just too far gone.

(Although his one-time Jazz teammate Al Jefferson has turned into a not-terrible defender the last few years. So maybe I shouldn’t be so hasty. What do they teach those big guys in Salt Lake City?)

OKC’s on/off defensive splits: With Kanter on the floor, the Thunder gave up 113.0 points per 100 poss’s. With him off (in the games he was on the team), they gave up only 105.1 per 100.

Utah’s on/off D splits with Kanter this season: 112.1 per 100 when Kanter was on the floor, 103.5 per 100 when he was off (in the games he was on the team).

That’s two teams, one in Utah and one in Oklahoma, with almost identical large improvements precisely when Kanter was NOT in the game vs. when he was.

One more stat: Kanter registered a -3.88 DRPM this season, which ranked him 469th out of 474 total players.

Oh, and that mean point I made about Griffin only collecting 35 blocks in 67 games? Kanter only had 29 in 75 games split between Utah and OKC. And he’s 6-11.
YES!

Plus, reducing the scoring chances for Durant/Westbrook is definitely good.

 
Kanter is a statistical monster, no question about that. 18.7 PPG, 11 RPG, 24.9 PER, .611 TS%. Those are excellent numbers.

But is all that enough to make up for being First-Team No-Defense?

* Enes Kanter, Oklahoma City. I don’t know what the Thunder thought it was getting when it traded for Kanter in February, but… what… a… defensive… disaster.

Kanter can score, no doubt, and he looks like a big man who should be able to play the pick-and-roll. But he can’t. He truly cannot.

He either doesn’t know how or doesn’t want to or just has a supreme talent for doing exactly the wrong thing whenever his man comes over to screen a guard.

Kanter’s so bad that opponents basically just call pick-and-rolls when he’s in the game, and if you can’t guard the pick-and-roll, you are doomed.

Among centers who get regular time in this league, there are several really porous defenders–and Kanter is by far the worst. He’s awful. I don’t think there’s any way he turns into even a half-way mediocre defender at any point in his career, it’s just too far gone.

(Although his one-time Jazz teammate Al Jefferson has turned into a not-terrible defender the last few years. So maybe I shouldn’t be so hasty. What do they teach those big guys in Salt Lake City?)

OKC’s on/off defensive splits: With Kanter on the floor, the Thunder gave up 113.0 points per 100 poss’s. With him off (in the games he was on the team), they gave up only 105.1 per 100.

Utah’s on/off D splits with Kanter this season: 112.1 per 100 when Kanter was on the floor, 103.5 per 100 when he was off (in the games he was on the team).

That’s two teams, one in Utah and one in Oklahoma, with almost identical large improvements precisely when Kanter was NOT in the game vs. when he was.

One more stat: Kanter registered a -3.88 DRPM this season, which ranked him 469th out of 474 total players.

Oh, and that mean point I made about Griffin only collecting 35 blocks in 67 games? Kanter only had 29 in 75 games split between Utah and OKC. And he’s 6-11.
YES!

Plus, reducing the scoring chances for Durant/Westbrook is definitely good.
Point out Kanter's awful defense as much as you'd like, but acting like he'll hurt their offense is pretty laughable.

 
YES!

Plus, reducing the scoring chances for Durant/Westbrook is definitely good.
Point out Kanter's awful defense as much as you'd like, but acting like he'll hurt their offense is pretty laughable.
His teams have tended to score less points per possession with him on the floor than with him off the floor. It's laughable in that it's kind of funny, but it's certainly not an unsupported assertion: http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/enes-kanter-may-be-one-of-the-last-players-to-cash-in-on-hollow-numbers/

Surprisingly (at least to me), Kanter’s offense also suffers on thesabermetric front: He doesn’t appear to help his teams score as efficiently as would be expected from his basic statistics. Only a few players have scored as much, and with as much efficiency,2 as Kanter has over the past three seasons, but it doesn’t seem to matter. During Kanter’s career, his teams have scored 1.5 fewer points per 100 possessions with him on the floor than without, and — perhaps not coincidentally — he had the second-worst offensiveBox Plus/Minus (BPM) of any player in the aforementioned group, and the fifth-worst offensive RPM.

The single most important component of a player’s on-court offensive influence3 is scoring efficiency, and that’s not a trouble spot for Kanter. But even more important (when taken collectively) are a player’s assist rate and his ability to get to the line and to take 3-point shots, and Kanter sets the team back in both areas.

That may not seem important because Kanter is still personally scoring points, but basketball is a tricky sport that way. The fascinating thing that happens when you search for links between component categories and overall offensive performance is that unexpected relationships fall out of the data. A player’s passing can amplify (or diminish) the potency of the threat his scoring talent represents; his ability to stretch the floor or collapse defenses into the paint can open up opportunities for teammates. Kanter’s own numbers might not be affected, but his weaknesses show up in his team’s rates of shooting efficiency, turnovers and, ultimately, offensive success.
 
During Kanter's career, teams have scored 1.5 fewer points per 100 possessions with him on the floor than without
This is not incorrect, but you have to think that his awful -12.1 ORtg as a rookie plays a role here. Last season, he was +3.6 with Utah and +6.6 with OKC, well above his career average.

 
During Kanter's career, teams have scored 1.5 fewer points per 100 possessions with him on the floor than without
This is not incorrect, but you have to think that his awful -12.1 ORtg as a rookie plays a role here. Last season, he was +3.6 with Utah and +6.6 with OKC, well above his career average.
Good point - I don't know how much that would impact things. In his rookie year, he played 874 minutes, and had 2359 minutes off court.

In his career, he has 6226 minutes on and 12850 minutes off. I'm sure there's some back of the envelope math waiting to be done to determine the impact his rookie year had.

Edit: Link to his bball ref page for this: http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/k/kanteen01/on-off/

 
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:lmao: What the hell? A big complaint about the NBA is the length of the season. Adding in another "play-in" type round would just add another week to the end.

It would also make another big complaint worse, that regular season games don't matter. Having teams with losing records in the playoffs just feels wrong.

 
During Kanter's career, teams have scored 1.5 fewer points per 100 possessions with him on the floor than without
This is not incorrect, but you have to think that his awful -12.1 ORtg as a rookie plays a role here. Last season, he was +3.6 with Utah and +6.6 with OKC, well above his career average.
Good point - I don't know how much that would impact things. In his rookie year, he played 874 minutes, and had 2359 minutes off court.

In his career, he has 6226 minutes on and 12850 minutes off. I'm sure there's some back of the envelope math waiting to be done to determine the impact his rookie year had.

Edit: Link to his bball ref page for this: http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/k/kanteen01/on-off/
For sure. He didn't play a ton of minutes his rookie year (or his sophomore year either, for that matter), but that -12.1 is such an outlier I'm guessing that it's still doing some damage.

I also think that some people underestimate the impact of his move to OKC. Despite having a pretty good year already, he was better in pretty much every statistical category after the trade deadline. I think this is something that gets lost when discussing his career averages.

 

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