Tlaib wants $20.00 an hour minimum wage. (1 Viewer)

[Da Guru]

Tlaib pushing for increasing minimum wage increase.  

The very liberal Mitch Albom against Tlaib`s proposal.

Mitch Albom: What 20.00 dollars an hour minimum wage will mean.

I was just at a meeting in Detroit last week, local business owners were ripping Tlaibs comments saying she is out of touch with small business.

 

[boots11234]

Lol. Free free free!!!

 

[identikit]

Tlaib pushing for increasing minimum wage increase.  

The very liberal Mitch Albom against Tlaib`s proposal.

Mitch Albom: What 20.00 dollars an hour minimum wage will mean.

I was just at a meeting in Detroit last week, local business owners were ripping Tlaibs comments saying she is out of touch with small business.

Mitch understands economics.

Tlaib has no clue.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

The Democrats have got this election in the bag.  All they have to do is be sane and not do anything stupid, and the White House is theirs.  

Squad: Hold my beer . . . 

 

[The Commish]

I don't really see the uproar of this suggestion.  At the pace our government moves, by the time they get to $20 minimum wage a $25 minimum wage will be necessary.  Being consistently behind the times seems to be the MO of our government.  This current $15 minimum wage policy won't be fully enacted for another 4-5 years correct?  By then it will be obsolete  

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

With the accompanying inflation all around maybe this will finally be the death knell for the penny.

 

[timschochet]

The Democrats have got this election in the bag.  All they have to do is be sane and not do anything stupid, and the White House is theirs.  

Squad: Hold my beer . . . 

The antidote is to select a candidate who rejects their ideas and says so (in a respectful manner.) 

 

[Da Guru]

I don't really see the uproar of this suggestion.  At the pace our government moves, by the time they get to $20 minimum wage a $25 minimum wage will be necessary.  Being consistently behind the times seems to be the MO of our government.  This current $15 minimum wage policy won't be fully enacted for another 4-5 years correct?  By then it will be obsolete  

Tlaib wants to skip over 15 and go right to 20.00.  

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

I find her a uniquely lovely young woman.  I also happen to disagree with much of what comes out of her mouth, but I appreciate her perspective existing and defend her right to express her views. 

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

Tlaib wants to skip over 15 and go right to 20.00.  

We have $20, do I hear $25.

 

[The Commish]

Tlaib wants to skip over 15 and go right to 20.00.  

Ok....point stands...by the time they got there it'd be antiquated.  From a political perspective I get IK's post above and agree.  The talking point hinders the message from the party who is being handed the election on a silver platter.  I don't get the concern from a matter of practicality though.  If proposed now, it's going to be a decade or so before it's accomplished (look how long Bernie's been chipping away at $15 an hour).  What's $20 an hour going to look like in 2029?

 

[Da Guru]

Ok....point stands...by the time they got there it'd be antiquated.  From a political perspective I get IK's post above and agree.  The talking point hinders the message from the party who is being handed the election on a silver platter.  I don't get the concern from a matter of practicality though.  If proposed now, it's going to be a decade or so before it's accomplished (look how long Bernie's been chipping away at $15 an hour).  What's $20 an hour going to look like in 2029?

Possibly, but I attend Chamber of Commerce meetings in Detroit a few times a year for my job.  These meetings are not exactly calm and orderly at times.  With Detroit in the midst of a revival local business owners think Tlaib is out of her mind and out of touch with business and costs.   Tlaib also singled out "tipped" employees.  With Detroit have so many new restaurants it did upset some investors.  

 

[The Commish]

Possibly, but I attend Chamber of Commerce meetings in Detroit a few times a year for my job.  These meetings are not exactly calm and orderly at times.  With Detroit in the midst of a revival local business owners think Tlaib is out of her mind and out of touch with business and costs.   Tlaib also singled out "tipped" employees.  With Detroit have so many new restaurants it did upset some investors.  

I can easily understand if they are looking at this as an "immediate" change.  That's not going to happen though.  Emotion is likely getting the best of these people.

 

[Da Guru]

I can easily understand if they are looking at this as an "immediate" change.  That's not going to happen though.  Emotion is likely getting the best of these people.

That is true.  Plus Tlaib took over John Conyers district so she was also pandering to her base.

 

[NREC34]

Would everyone making $20 already get a bump too? Or are we going to have fast food workers making the same as mechanics?

 

[HellToupee]

We have $20, do I hear $25.

8 minute abs? No 7 minute abs?

 

[Da Guru]

Would everyone making $20 already get a bump too? Or are we going to have fast food workers making the same as mechanics?

Yes, trickle up.

 

[Sand]

I don't really see the uproar of this suggestion.  At the pace our government moves, by the time they get to $20 minimum wage a $25 minimum wage will be necessary.  Being consistently behind the times seems to be the MO of our government.  This current $15 minimum wage policy won't be fully enacted for another 4-5 years correct?  By then it will be obsolete  

Even a $15 wage is massively distorting.  This has a good graph of what the inflation adjusted minimum wage is at.  At its highest it bounced around $10 an hour.  On the federal side that's about the absolute maximum it should be - higher is lunacy.  $15 is a stage for massive unemployment.  Set it at $9-10, index it to the CPI, and be done with this whole thing.  Let expensive localities up things to where they need them to be.

The Tlaib "look at me" stunt looks pretty desperate.

 

[Mile High]

Going to need $20 an hour to buy all the new made in America products. 

 

[The Commish]

Even a $15 wage is massively distorting.  This has a good graph of what the inflation adjusted minimum wage is at.  At its highest it bounced around $10 an hour.  On the federal side that's about the absolute maximum it should be - higher is lunacy.  $15 is a stage for massive unemployment.  Set it at $9-10, index it to the CPI, and be done with this whole thing.  Let expensive localities up things to where they need them to be.

The Tlaib "look at me" stunt looks pretty desperate.

How do you know this?  We still have 4-5 years to go before this is implemented.  Best I can tell, the graph you're providing doesn't tell the future.  I do acknowledge that "national averages" are problematic in issues like this and tend to agree that localities should be more influential, but I'm lost trying to figure out your point for the rest.

 

[Sand]

How do you know this?  We still have 4-5 years to go before this is implemented.  

Inflation is non-existent.  The landscape in 5 years will either be largely the same as now or worse for higher wages (possibility of a recession).  The thought that a huge discontinuity in wages is distortive is self-evident.  All large government mandated changes will be distortive.  

 

[timschochet]

The question I always ask about minimum wage  is this: what happens when we raise ours and the rest of the world does not? 

 

[Juxtatarot]

The question I always ask about minimum wage  is this: what happens when we raise ours and the rest of the world does not? 

Most of these jobs are not in industries that compete internationally.

Occupation. Among major occupational groups, service occupations had the highest percentage of hourly paid workers earning at or below the federal minimum wage, at about 7 percent. About two-thirds of workers earning the minimum wage or less in 2017 were employed in service occupations, mostly in food preparation and serving related jobs. (See table 4.)

Industry. The industry with the highest percentage of workers earning hourly wages at or below the federal minimum wage was leisure and hospitality (11 percent). About three-fifths of all workers paid at or below the federal minimum wage were employed in this industry, almost entirely in restaurants and other food services. For many of these workers, tips may supplement the hourly wages received. (See table 5.)

https://www.bls.gov/opub/reports/minimum-wage/2017/home.htm

 

[dkp993]

I find her a uniquely lovely young woman.  I also happen to disagree with much of what comes out of her mouth, but I appreciate her perspective existing and defend her right to express her views. 

Well said.  

 

[dkp993]

In low margin business’s things like this are the dagger.  Good news is it there aren’t many of those, just the overwhelming majority of the Food and Beverage industry ( and supporting industries) and large portions of retail. What could possibly go wrong?

 

[Lutherman2112]

Possibly, but I attend Chamber of Commerce meetings in Detroit a few times a year for my job.  These meetings are not exactly calm and orderly at times.  With Detroit in the midst of a revival local business owners think Tlaib is out of her mind and out of touch with business and costs.   Tlaib also singled out "tipped" employees.  With Detroit have so many new restaurants it did upset some investors.  

I'm shocked that members of the CoC would be against minimum wages.

https://www.uschamber.com/search/site/minimum wage

 

[Da Guru]

I find her a uniquely lovely young woman.  I also happen to disagree with much of what comes out of her mouth, but I appreciate her perspective existing and defend her right to express her views. 

Tlaib is not really young as she is 44, but I agree everyone has the right to their perspective and to express their views.

 

[Dan Lambskin]

Looking forward to the fully automated McDonalds and Starbucks although having to pay $10 for a gallon of milk will probably suck

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

Tlaib is not really young as she is 44, but I agree everyone has the right to their perspective and to express their views.

Young is relative to the one pronouncing it.  Still, I can imagine that she might find that dismissive so I retract my characterization.  Probably not appropriate to her colleagues Omar and AOC either so if I have ever characterized them physically or by age I apologize.  Think of me as an anachronism, a throw back to another rage, an age rapidly passing from the stage. 

 

[Shula-holic]

Here's the thing.  I'm all for indexing minimum wage and I think there needs to be some sort of adjustment.  But the reality is there is a difference in places like Los Angeles and rural Alabama.  I grew up in rural Alabama.  I went to see my parents last week and the interstate got backed up due to a wreck so got off and took some old county roads to get there I haven't been on in years.  Basically approached the town on roads I haven't been on in maybe 20-25 years.  It was staggering how the small towns are hollowed out.  All the small businesses that used to be there are gone, buildings falling in.  The bakery, the local steakhouse, the old shopping center, etc.  These places are hurting.  Putting a $20 minimum wage there would finish it off, there would be no jobs.  But I do get that costs of goods and living in other areas aren't the same.  I don't think a one size fits all policy is appropriate anymore for minimum wage in our country.

 

[Captain Cranks]

I'm curious if those who are repulsed by this think there should be a minimum wage at all.  If so, what should it be?  If not, where do you think the labor prices would go for someone working at Home Depot full time?  

 

[Da Guru]

Young is relative to the one pronouncing it.  Still, I can imagine that she might find that dismissive so I retract my characterization.  Probably not appropriate to her colleagues Omar and AOC either so if I have ever characterized them physically or by age I apologize.  Think of me as an anachronism, a throw back to another rage, an age rapidly passing from the stage. 

I thought you might be comparing her to Pelosi..then she actually is young.   

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

I thought you might be comparing her to Pelosi..then she actually is young.   

So I just did some googling on Pelosi.  I see there was an urban myth that she may have been "Miss Lube Rack 1959".  the things the internet will spew out are endlessly fascinating. 

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/nancy-pelosi-miss-lube-rack-1959/

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

Turns out that the business which had a Miss Lube Rack" title had several others.  A Miss Control tower, a Miss Polish Job, and a Miss Body and Fender along with several Miss New Cars.  I like Miss Body and Fender.  In deference to the policies here I will not link her picture, but hubba hubba, she sported a well turned ankle.

 

[identikit]

Turns out that the business which had a Miss Lube Rack" title had several others.  A Miss Control tower, a Miss Polish Job, and a Miss Body and Fender along with several Miss New Cars.  I like Miss Body and Fender.  In deference to the policies here I will not link her picture, but hubba hubba, she sported a well turned ankle.

Miss Bumper?

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

Miss Bumper?

Not that I can see.  Apparently a Miss Gasoline Pump though.

buying a new car was much different in 1951 were all of that came from.

 

[Sinn Fein]

With the accompanying inflation all around maybe this will finally be the death knell for the penny.

Start hiding Wheat Pennies...

 

[Sinn Fein]

WE MUST PROTECT THE PROFITS ABOVE ALL ELSE!

PROFITS TO SHAREHOLDERS/OWNERS ARE MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE COST OF LABOR!!

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I'm curious if those who are repulsed by this think there should be a minimum wage at all. 

Just speaking for me personally, but no.  

 

[Sinn Fein]

Just speaking for me personally, but no.  

Only in a Utopian society would you not need a minimum wage, imo.

Its easy to say that supply/demand would effectively take care of the wage issue - but the reality is a disparate bargaining position, along with policies designed to favor owners over labor, and you end up with labor being underpaid (and overworked).  Long-term, that is bad for society.  imo

 

[zoonation]

$20 an hour?  That is ridiculous.  Hard pass.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Only in a Utopian society would you not need a minimum wage, imo.

Its easy to say that supply/demand would effectively take care of the wage issue - but the reality is a disparate bargaining position, along with policies designed to favor owners over labor, and you end up with labor being underpaid (and overworked).  Long-term, that is bad for society.  imo

The minimum wage isn't binding for most workers as it is.  The minimum wage could vanish tomorrow and it would have no effect on auto workers, ship builders, tax attorneys, teachers, nurses, etc.

 

[Sinn Fein]

The minimum wage isn't binding for most workers as it is.  The minimum wage could vanish tomorrow and it would have no effect on auto workers, ship builders, tax attorneys, teachers, nurses, etc.

All but the tax attorneys have unions to help level the playing field when negotiating wages and benefits.

Most workers don't have that kind of representation - and need the benefits of a government imposed "floor".

 

[IvanKaramazov]

All but the tax attorneys have unions to help level the playing field when negotiating wages and benefits.

Most workers don't have that kind of representation - and need the benefits of a government imposed "floor".

I have no problem with unions -- they're fine as far as I'm concerned.  That said, most non-unionized folks earn more than the minimum wage too.  At my place employment (public university), our staff are not unionized, but they all make more than that anyway.  That's not because we're just nice.  You can't hire somebody to provide competent office support for $10/hr.

 

[Captain Cranks]

Only in a Utopian society would you not need a minimum wage, imo.

Its easy to say that supply/demand would effectively take care of the wage issue - but the reality is a disparate bargaining position, along with policies designed to favor owners over labor, and you end up with labor being underpaid (and overworked).  Long-term, that is bad for society.  imo

Correct.  This is one of the symptoms of capitalism's imperfections and the free market won't correct it on its own.  Business is designed to optimize profits, and ultimately has no regard for the standard of living of its employees.  We're already seeing that businesses are willing to pay a wage lower than the standard cost of living.  If you remove that floor, the wages go even lower.  Do we really want a society where a person working 40 hours a week, even if it's at McDonald's, can't come home and take care of their family because they need to work second and third jobs to pay the rent?  That's not a characteristic of the "greatest nation on earth", in my opinion.  

 

[IvanKaramazov]

To be clear, I don't care much about the current minimum wage.  It doesn't apply to many workers and has very little effect on most labor markets, good or bad.  A $15 minimum wage would be a much bigger deal in parts of the country that have a relatively low wage scale, though.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Correct.  This is one of the symptoms of capitalism's imperfections and the free market won't correct it on its own.  Business is designed to optimize profits, and ultimately has no regard for the standard of living of its employees.  We're already seeing that businesses are willing to pay a wage lower than the standard cost of living.  If you remove that floor, the wages go even lower.  Do we really want a society where a person working 40 hours a week, even if it's at McDonald's, can't come home and take care of their family because they need to work second and third jobs to pay the rent?  That's not a characteristic of the "greatest nation on earth", in my opinion.  

BIG.  Problem solved.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

"People should be able to support a family by working at McDonalds" is an argument for providing help for working families, not requiring firms to pay high school kids more for their part-time summer job.

 

[Captain Cranks]

"People should be able to support a family by working at McDonalds" is an argument for providing help for working families, not requiring firms to pay high school kids more for their part-time summer job.

Can you elaborate on what is meant by "help"?