Tom Seaver: He Was Really Good (1 Viewer)

[Encyclopedia Brown]

In the last couple of weeks I have heard Seaver comment on the retirement of Tim McCarver, and upon the death of Ralph Kiner. He came off as intelligent, articulate and well informed.

I knew he was a very good player, but looking at his stats, I was amazed at great of a player he was, and how unnoticed it seemed he was. He was once traded for Doug Flynn and Pat Zachary. Doug Flynn and Pat Zachary.

His WAR for pitchers is 7th all-time. His Cy Young voting is 6th all-time. His K's is 6th all-time. He's a 12 time All-Star.

He's a great player that seems unrecognized.

 

[Fariq]

I have him in my top 10 all-time pitchers. He is still the leader in highest percentage of votes in Hall of Fame voting.

 

[guru_007]

They didn't call him Tom Terrific cause he sucked

 

[Koya]

In the last couple of weeks I have heard Seaver comment on the retirement of Tim McCarver, and upon the death of Ralph Kiner. He came off as intelligent, articulate and well informed.

I knew he was a very good player, but looking at his stats, I was amazed at great of a player he was, and how unnoticed it seemed he was. He was once traded for Doug Flynn and Pat Zachary. Doug Flynn and Pat Zachary.

His WAR for pitchers is 7th all-time. His Cy Young voting is 6th all-time. His K's is 6th all-time. He's a 12 time All-Star.

He's a great player that seems unrecognized.

I wasn't even a Mets fan yet and that trade still hurts.

 

[Koya]

BTW, he is very similar in terms of age / career to Lefty Grove, another criminally underrated HoFer and all time great. While wildly considered a great pitcher, he is still, imo, really underrated amongst the greats (only got to the majors at like 30, think he had one of the best minor league careers ever. Still managed 300 wins in the majors. THE dominating pitcher of a huge hitters era, so his raw stats dont usually compare, but the guy was just head and shoulders above the league at the time.

 

[Don Quixote]

Are people rating him low? I never thought of him as underrated. Highest HOF vote ever. I think ESPN had him in the top 25 of their greatest ball players of all time list.

 

[jon_mx]

Are people rating him low? I never thought of him as underrated. Highest HOF vote ever. I think ESPN had him in the top 25 of their greatest ball players of all time list.

Yeah, not sure by what measure he would be considered underrated. Now Lou Whittaker who should be in everyone's top 10 second basemen of all-time, not even coming close to being elected to the Hall of Fame, is grossly underappreciated.

 

[Eephus]

i posted this in the Hall of Fame thread when it came out but there was a great piece by Pat Jordan written last year about the Seaver of today.

 

[Koya]

I think there are two populations here - baseball nerds and general fans. The latter knows all about Koufax and Gibson, Maddux etc. They know Of Seaver too but in those broader circles I don't think I he gets the recognition that is deserved.

Amongst those of us who follow the history of the game more closely then it may be a different story.

He's under appreciated by WIS for sure

 

[Bogart]

Are people rating him low? I never thought of him as underrated. Highest HOF vote ever. I think ESPN had him in the top 25 of their greatest ball players of all time list.

Yeah, not sure by what measure he would be considered underrated. Now Lou Whittaker who should be in everyone's top 10 second basemen of all-time, not even coming close to being elected to the Hall of Fame, is grossly underappreciated.

Sweet Lou is just outside my top 10. Deserved more consideration than he got.

 

[Koya]

Are people rating him low? I never thought of him as underrated. Highest HOF vote ever. I think ESPN had him in the top 25 of their greatest ball players of all time list.

Yeah, not sure by what measure he would be considered underrated. Now Lou Whittaker who should be in everyone's top 10 second basemen of all-time, not even coming close to being elected to the Hall of Fame, is grossly underappreciated.

Sweet Lou is just outside my top 10. Deserved more consideration than he got.

I need to look again but am getting the feeling that Lou is underrated by the general populace but becoming overrated by the inside guys.

 

[Anarchy99]

I remember going to this game. I was 9. Even then I thought the pitching performances were masterful, but I had no idea the grand scale of what I was watching. A true clash of the titans.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/NYN/NYN197609030.shtml

 

[Mr. Pickles]

Underrated? Stop it.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Are people rating him low? I never thought of him as underrated. Highest HOF vote ever. I think ESPN had him in the top 25 of their greatest ball players of all time list.

Yeah, not sure by what measure he would be considered underrated. Now Lou Whittaker who should be in everyone's top 10 second basemen of all-time, not even coming close to being elected to the Hall of Fame, is grossly underappreciated.

Sweet Lou is just outside my top 10. Deserved more consideration than he got.

I need to look again but am getting the feeling that Lou is underrated by the general populace but becoming overrated by the inside guys.

Yeah, look again and get back to us.

He got 2.9% of the HOF vote on his first ballot, and was removed. His career stats are VERY similar to Ryne Sandberg's, and his career WAR is about the same as Johnny Bench, Reggie Jackson, Frank Thomas and 10 better than Craig Biggio who is basically a shoe in at this point.

I am not a huge WAR fan as a season to season indicator, but over time I think it becomes more valuable. I do understand WAR wasn't really in the vernacular when Whitaker was up for a vote, but him being knocked off on his first ballot and Sandberg getting in on his third ballot, is absolutely criminal.

 

[jon_mx]

Are people rating him low? I never thought of him as underrated. Highest HOF vote ever. I think ESPN had him in the top 25 of their greatest ball players of all time list.

Yeah, not sure by what measure he would be considered underrated. Now Lou Whittaker who should be in everyone's top 10 second basemen of all-time, not even coming close to being elected to the Hall of Fame, is grossly underappreciated.

Sweet Lou is just outside my top 10. Deserved more consideration than he got.

I need to look again but am getting the feeling that Lou is underrated by the general populace but becoming overrated by the inside guys.

Lou's gets beat up a lot because his stats were in an era of relatively low batting averages, which is why his WAR is much better than his stats.

 

[Eephus]

Are people rating him low? I never thought of him as underrated. Highest HOF vote ever. I think ESPN had him in the top 25 of their greatest ball players of all time list.

Yeah, not sure by what measure he would be considered underrated. Now Lou Whittaker who should be in everyone's top 10 second basemen of all-time, not even coming close to being elected to the Hall of Fame, is grossly underappreciated.

Sweet Lou is just outside my top 10. Deserved more consideration than he got.

I need to look again but am getting the feeling that Lou is underrated by the general populace but becoming overrated by the inside guys.

Lou's gets beat up a lot because his stats were in an era of relatively low batting averages, which is why his WAR is much better than his stats.

Not really true. Whitaker played from 1977-1995. Batting average and runs per game were both considerably higher when he came up than they'd been a decade before. Lou did retire right in the midst of the offensive explosion of the 90s, which may have caused Hall of Fame voters to lose some context around his production. But the increases were mostly in HR and SLG, not in AVG. It's not like Whitaker's main contribution was in batting average; he hit .300 once. His brief candidacy also happened before the era of advanced fielding stats which could have helped his case.

His problem was and is the lack of eye popping stats. He was a consistent performer at a key defensive position but wasn't ever a league leader in any offensive category. Playing in the same league as Frank White kept Whitaker from putting together a long string of Gold Gloves.

He'll eventually be voted in by some veteran's committee.

 

[Encyclopedia Brown]

Underrated? Stop it.

Not underrated, more unnoticed, it seems.

Of his era I hear Nolan Ryan, Jim Palmer and Steve Carlton mentioned a lot more than Seaver. Even Fergie Jenkins and Bert Blyleven seem to come up in the conversation more often.

 

[Eephus]

Underrated? Stop it.

Not underrated, more unnoticed, it seems.

Of his era I hear Nolan Ryan, Jim Palmer and Steve Carlton mentioned a lot more than Seaver. Even Fergie Jenkins and Bert Blyleven seem to come up in the conversation more often.

Ryan, Palmer and Blyleven have stayed active in the game as executives and broadcasters. Carlton was always a bit of an odd one with his no interview policy and his arm in a rice bucket. He pops up in the press now and again these days as a conspiracy nut job. Jenkins is the greatest Canadian ballplayer so there's that. Seaver was a broadcaster for a while but stepped away from the game. He's had some health problems detailed in the article I linked to above but he seems content with how he's living his life.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Frank White is the best fielding 2Bman I've ever seen.

 

[Encyclopedia Brown]

Frank White is the best fielding 2Bman I've ever seen.

He wasn't better than Sandberg.

 

[Eephus]

Frank White is the best fielding 2Bman I've ever seen.

Incredible on the pivot

 

[Fariq]

Underrated? Stop it.

Not underrated, more unnoticed, it seems.

Of his era I hear Nolan Ryan, Jim Palmer and Steve Carlton mentioned a lot more than Seaver. Even Fergie Jenkins and Bert Blyleven seem to come up in the conversation more often.

Blyleven comes up more often because he waited a long time for induction and his name is mentioned often in Hall of Fame discussions as either a borderline guy or a case study. There is no doubt that Seaver belongs in and thus he does not get used as a point of comparison to borderline candidates.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Frank White is the best fielding 2Bman I've ever seen.

He wasn't better than Sandberg.

Are you saying I never saw Sandberg play?

 

[rodg12]

i posted this in the Hall of Fame thread when it came out but there was a great piece by Pat Jordan written last year about the Seaver of today.

Great article. Thanks for posting.