Tony Moeaki could be a Week 2 fast-rising TE (1 Viewer)

[Tree Shaker]

There are a couple of TEs out there who don't seem to be getting much press lately; TEs like Tony Moeaki and Lance Kendricks. But I'm intrigued a bit more by Moeaki in Week 1 for a number of reasons:

[*]ATL gave up the 14th most fantasy points to TEs last year - not an overwhelming stat, but it does rank them out of the top defenses vs. the TE;

[*]Former Chiefs hero Tony Gonzalez will be back in town for the game, so there might be some motivation to get Moeaki involved early as a show of respect/defiance;

[*]D. Bowe missed a ton of time with his holdout and might not be in the best shape, or on the same page with Cassel, for this first week of the season;

He showed some flashes of potential (and maybe some too-early comparisons with Gonzalez because of the KC angle) last year, and I find myself wondering whether he can reach that kind of level after the surgery and rehab.

 

[12punch]

did you know atl has a new dc?

 

[kutta]

Out of curiosity, who did you have in mind for the other "acl-to-glory" guys?

 

[Tree Shaker]

Out of curiosity, who did you have in mind for the other "acl-to-glory" guys?

Maybe only Jamaal Charles fits that description; it was mostly tongue-in-cheek after hearing the glowing reports of Mendenhall and Peterson so far.

 

[Hoss Style]

There are a couple of TEs out there who don't seem to be getting much press lately; TEs like Tony Moeaki and Lance Kendricks. But I'm intrigued a bit more by Moeaki in Week 1 for a number of reasons:

[*]ATL gave up the 14th most fantasy points to TEs last year - not an overwhelming stat, but it does rank them out of the top defenses vs. the TE;

[*]Former Chiefs hero Tony Gonzalez will be back in town for the game, so there might be some motivation to get Moeaki involved early as a show of respect/defiance;

[*]D. Bowe missed a ton of time with his holdout and might not be in the best shape, or on the same page with Cassel, for this first week of the season;

He showed some flashes of potential (and maybe some too-early comparisons with Gonzalez because of the KC angle) last year, and I find myself wondering whether he can reach that kind of level after the surgery and rehab.

I've always favored Moeaki as a sleeper. If he can return to what he used to be and KC can throw the ball at higher than a pee-wee level then I like him. I like him around week 4, though. I think it takes him a bit to get back in the groove. I'd only hold him in deep leagues.

 

[whatadai]

But Kevin Boss is starting...yes, they'll be running a two TE set a lot, but I doubt either produces much. They'll be blocking. It will be the Hillis/Charles show.

 

[Tree Shaker]

But Kevin Boss is starting...yes, they'll be running a two TE set a lot, but I doubt either produces much. They'll be blocking. It will be the Hillis/Charles show.

I think with Cassel's level of proficiency, this might be the best plan. Just thinking maybe Moeaki gets a redzone look or two over the next few weeks.

 

[whatadai]

But Kevin Boss is starting...yes, they'll be running a two TE set a lot, but I doubt either produces much. They'll be blocking. It will be the Hillis/Charles show.

I think with Cassel's level of proficiency, this might be the best plan. Just thinking maybe Moeaki gets a redzone look or two over the next few weeks.

I honestly expect him to get no more than 2 TDs for the season, barring injury to Boss. He's not some big red zone target. I'd expect about a 60/40 split between Boss and Moeaki for about 60 receptions, 700 yds, and 3 TDs.Hillis' good season came with Daboll, there's a reason Daboll wanted him and it's easy to see that Hillis and Charles will have a Thunder and Lightning combo. Another reason why they went out and got a guy like Winston. Yes, Ben Watson had a decent statistical year with Daboll too, but that's because Cleveland had no WRs. Daboll used Brandon Marshall extensively and now he has a top split end in Bowe and a WR with great upside in Baldwin. You also can't forget that Breaston is still there. Plus, Atlanta's LBs and DBs have more than enough ability to cover Moeaki, IMO. Moeaki is a guy to keep an eye on and add if he does show something. I don't believe his upside is very high though since he would be the 5th option on that offense at best, but probably 7th. I have Bowe, Breaston, Baldwin, Hillis, Charles, and Boss in front of him for targets.

 

[JamesTheScot]

But Kevin Boss is starting...yes, they'll be running a two TE set a lot, but I doubt either produces much. They'll be blocking. It will be the Hillis/Charles show.

I think with Cassel's level of proficiency, this might be the best plan. Just thinking maybe Moeaki gets a redzone look or two over the next few weeks.

I honestly expect him to get no more than 2 TDs for the season, barring injury to Boss. He's not some big red zone target. I'd expect about a 60/40 split between Boss and Moeaki for about 60 receptions, 700 yds, and 3 TDs.Hillis' good season came with Daboll, there's a reason Daboll wanted him and it's easy to see that Hillis and Charles will have a Thunder and Lightning combo. Another reason why they went out and got a guy like Winston. Yes, Ben Watson had a decent statistical year with Daboll too, but that's because Cleveland had no WRs. Daboll used Brandon Marshall extensively and now he has a top split end in Bowe and a WR with great upside in Baldwin. You also can't forget that Breaston is still there. Plus, Atlanta's LBs and DBs have more than enough ability to cover Moeaki, IMO. Moeaki is a guy to keep an eye on and add if he does show something. I don't believe his upside is very high though since he would be the 5th option on that offense at best, but probably 7th. I have Bowe, Breaston, Baldwin, Hillis, Charles, and Boss in front of him for targets.

Hillis, Charles and Breaston are not going to be ahead of him on the same play. Bowe is their #1. Both Charles and Hillis are good receivers, but other than in designed screens, the RB is going to be one of the later options in the QB's progression. If Moeaki is good, he's going to get chances before Cassell looks to dump off to Hillis or Charles. Not to mention the RB's are going to be splitting time, which means he'll only have one of them on the field each play to contend with. Baldwin may be something, but then again, he may not. And Moeaki has shown just as much potential as Baldwin has.Breaston? Seriously? He's going to see some looks as the #3, but he isn't taking looks from anyone.Man, people act like he has world beaters in front of him. If we apply that same analysis, how could anyone think Gonzalez or Martellus Bennett or Finley could have any value? They each have better WR's in front of them than Bowe and Baldwin, and they have promising slot men and (other than GB) decent pass catching RB's to contend with.This all hinges on Cassell. If he makes it a small pie, everyone is going to have a lean year, though Bowe will still be startable. But if he makes it a big pie, then there's enough for Moeaki too.

 

[whatadai]

But Kevin Boss is starting...yes, they'll be running a two TE set a lot, but I doubt either produces much. They'll be blocking. It will be the Hillis/Charles show.

I think with Cassel's level of proficiency, this might be the best plan. Just thinking maybe Moeaki gets a redzone look or two over the next few weeks.

I honestly expect him to get no more than 2 TDs for the season, barring injury to Boss. He's not some big red zone target. I'd expect about a 60/40 split between Boss and Moeaki for about 60 receptions, 700 yds, and 3 TDs.Hillis' good season came with Daboll, there's a reason Daboll wanted him and it's easy to see that Hillis and Charles will have a Thunder and Lightning combo. Another reason why they went out and got a guy like Winston. Yes, Ben Watson had a decent statistical year with Daboll too, but that's because Cleveland had no WRs. Daboll used Brandon Marshall extensively and now he has a top split end in Bowe and a WR with great upside in Baldwin. You also can't forget that Breaston is still there. Plus, Atlanta's LBs and DBs have more than enough ability to cover Moeaki, IMO. Moeaki is a guy to keep an eye on and add if he does show something. I don't believe his upside is very high though since he would be the 5th option on that offense at best, but probably 7th. I have Bowe, Breaston, Baldwin, Hillis, Charles, and Boss in front of him for targets.

Hillis, Charles and Breaston are not going to be ahead of him on the same play. Bowe is their #1. Both Charles and Hillis are good receivers, but other than in designed screens, the RB is going to be one of the later options in the QB's progression. If Moeaki is good, he's going to get chances before Cassell looks to dump off to Hillis or Charles. Not to mention the RB's are going to be splitting time, which means he'll only have one of them on the field each play to contend with. Baldwin may be something, but then again, he may not. And Moeaki has shown just as much potential as Baldwin has.Breaston? Seriously? He's going to see some looks as the #3, but he isn't taking looks from anyone.Man, people act like he has world beaters in front of him. If we apply that same analysis, how could anyone think Gonzalez or Martellus Bennett or Finley could have any value? They each have better WR's in front of them than Bowe and Baldwin, and they have promising slot men and (other than GB) decent pass catching RB's to contend with.This all hinges on Cassell. If he makes it a small pie, everyone is going to have a lean year, though Bowe will still be startable. But if he makes it a big pie, then there's enough for Moeaki too.

Who said they'll be ahead of him on a play? I said TARGETS. Also, do you seriously think the Chiefs actually have a PLANNED play for Moeaki to be the first target? He's not even a good red zone target.Yes, Bowe is their #1...and you really don't expect them to ever have Charles and Hillis on the field at the same time? It won't be common, but it will happen. Either way, both will have more targets by the end of the season than Moeaki, barring injury. What Moeaki has also shown is that he's injury prone. Either way, Baldwin is currently the THIRD WR on the team, and Daboll has shown that he prefers to throw to his WRs over his TEs when he actually has WRs that can get open, which Breaston and Baldwin can do. Yes, Baldwin may end up a bust, but after Moeaki's injuries and his injury proneness, I'd put my money on the 1st round pick who has a much higher ceiling. Because guess what? Moeaki can end up being a bust too and having 2010 be his only somewhat productive season of his career.Breaston as the #3? He's the starting WR. You're just pulling #### out of your ### without any knowledge now. Bowe, Breaston, Charles, and Hillis have all shown more receiving ability than Moeaki. Baldwin has shown greater upside, and equal if not better receiving ability than Moeaki, and he did it in spot starts. Kevin Boss has shown equal receiving ability and better blocking ability than Moeaki. Why does Gonzalez have value? Because the only receivers on that team who have shown any ability are Roddy White and Julio Jones. Michael Turner has lost his legs and Jacquizz Rodgers has many question marks surrounding him. Therefore, he's the third target on the team. Plus, he has many years of work to show his receiving ability.Martellus Bennett has value because of the same reasoning as Gonzalez. He only has Nicks and Cruz in front of him that have shown consistent receiving ability. Bradshaw is losing his legs too and Wilson still has question marks surrounding him.Do I have to repeat the same thing for Finley?

 

[cusefan115]

But Kevin Boss is starting...yes, they'll be running a two TE set a lot, but I doubt either produces much. They'll be blocking. It will be the Hillis/Charles show.

I think with Cassel's level of proficiency, this might be the best plan. Just thinking maybe Moeaki gets a redzone look or two over the next few weeks.

I honestly expect him to get no more than 2 TDs for the season, barring injury to Boss. He's not some big red zone target. I'd expect about a 60/40 split between Boss and Moeaki for about 60 receptions, 700 yds, and 3 TDs.Hillis' good season came with Daboll, there's a reason Daboll wanted him and it's easy to see that Hillis and Charles will have a Thunder and Lightning combo. Another reason why they went out and got a guy like Winston. Yes, Ben Watson had a decent statistical year with Daboll too, but that's because Cleveland had no WRs. Daboll used Brandon Marshall extensively and now he has a top split end in Bowe and a WR with great upside in Baldwin. You also can't forget that Breaston is still there. Plus, Atlanta's LBs and DBs have more than enough ability to cover Moeaki, IMO. Moeaki is a guy to keep an eye on and add if he does show something. I don't believe his upside is very high though since he would be the 5th option on that offense at best, but probably 7th. I have Bowe, Breaston, Baldwin, Hillis, Charles, and Boss in front of him for targets.

Hillis, Charles and Breaston are not going to be ahead of him on the same play. Bowe is their #1. Both Charles and Hillis are good receivers, but other than in designed screens, the RB is going to be one of the later options in the QB's progression. If Moeaki is good, he's going to get chances before Cassell looks to dump off to Hillis or Charles. Not to mention the RB's are going to be splitting time, which means he'll only have one of them on the field each play to contend with. Baldwin may be something, but then again, he may not. And Moeaki has shown just as much potential as Baldwin has.Breaston? Seriously? He's going to see some looks as the #3, but he isn't taking looks from anyone.Man, people act like he has world beaters in front of him. If we apply that same analysis, how could anyone think Gonzalez or Martellus Bennett or Finley could have any value? They each have better WR's in front of them than Bowe and Baldwin, and they have promising slot men and (other than GB) decent pass catching RB's to contend with.This all hinges on Cassell. If he makes it a small pie, everyone is going to have a lean year, though Bowe will still be startable. But if he makes it a big pie, then there's enough for Moeaki too.

Who said they'll be ahead of him on a play? I said TARGETS. Also, do you seriously think the Chiefs actually have a PLANNED play for Moeaki to be the first target? He's not even a good red zone target.Yes, Bowe is their #1...and you really don't expect them to ever have Charles and Hillis on the field at the same time? It won't be common, but it will happen. Either way, both will have more targets by the end of the season than Moeaki, barring injury. What Moeaki has also shown is that he's injury prone. Either way, Baldwin is currently the THIRD WR on the team, and Daboll has shown that he prefers to throw to his WRs over his TEs when he actually has WRs that can get open, which Breaston and Baldwin can do. Yes, Baldwin may end up a bust, but after Moeaki's injuries and his injury proneness, I'd put my money on the 1st round pick who has a much higher ceiling.Breaston as the #3? He's the starting WR. You're just pulling #### out of your ### without any knowledge now. Bowe, Breaston, Charles, and Hillis have all shown more receiving ability than Moeaki. Baldwin has shown greater upside, and equal if not better receiving ability than Moeaki, and he did it in spot starts. Kevin Boss has shown equal receiving ability and better blocking ability than Moeaki. Why does Gonzalez have value? Because the only receivers on that team who have shown any ability are Roddy White and Julio Jones. Michael Turner has lost his legs and Jacquizz Rodgers has many question marks surrounding him. Therefore, he's the third target on the team. Plus, he has many years of work to show his receiving ability.Martellus Bennett has value because of the same reasoning as Gonzalez. He only has Nicks and Cruz in front of him that have shown consistent receiving ability. Bradshaw is losing his legs too and Wilson still has question marks surrounding him.Do I have to repeat the same thing for Finley?

Where does McCluster fit into the offense? Will he see any opportunities? He seemed to have a good preseason...

 

[whatadai]

But Kevin Boss is starting...yes, they'll be running a two TE set a lot, but I doubt either produces much. They'll be blocking. It will be the Hillis/Charles show.

I think with Cassel's level of proficiency, this might be the best plan. Just thinking maybe Moeaki gets a redzone look or two over the next few weeks.

I honestly expect him to get no more than 2 TDs for the season, barring injury to Boss. He's not some big red zone target. I'd expect about a 60/40 split between Boss and Moeaki for about 60 receptions, 700 yds, and 3 TDs.Hillis' good season came with Daboll, there's a reason Daboll wanted him and it's easy to see that Hillis and Charles will have a Thunder and Lightning combo. Another reason why they went out and got a guy like Winston. Yes, Ben Watson had a decent statistical year with Daboll too, but that's because Cleveland had no WRs. Daboll used Brandon Marshall extensively and now he has a top split end in Bowe and a WR with great upside in Baldwin. You also can't forget that Breaston is still there. Plus, Atlanta's LBs and DBs have more than enough ability to cover Moeaki, IMO. Moeaki is a guy to keep an eye on and add if he does show something. I don't believe his upside is very high though since he would be the 5th option on that offense at best, but probably 7th. I have Bowe, Breaston, Baldwin, Hillis, Charles, and Boss in front of him for targets.

Hillis, Charles and Breaston are not going to be ahead of him on the same play. Bowe is their #1. Both Charles and Hillis are good receivers, but other than in designed screens, the RB is going to be one of the later options in the QB's progression. If Moeaki is good, he's going to get chances before Cassell looks to dump off to Hillis or Charles. Not to mention the RB's are going to be splitting time, which means he'll only have one of them on the field each play to contend with. Baldwin may be something, but then again, he may not. And Moeaki has shown just as much potential as Baldwin has.Breaston? Seriously? He's going to see some looks as the #3, but he isn't taking looks from anyone.Man, people act like he has world beaters in front of him. If we apply that same analysis, how could anyone think Gonzalez or Martellus Bennett or Finley could have any value? They each have better WR's in front of them than Bowe and Baldwin, and they have promising slot men and (other than GB) decent pass catching RB's to contend with.This all hinges on Cassell. If he makes it a small pie, everyone is going to have a lean year, though Bowe will still be startable. But if he makes it a big pie, then there's enough for Moeaki too.

Who said they'll be ahead of him on a play? I said TARGETS. Also, do you seriously think the Chiefs actually have a PLANNED play for Moeaki to be the first target? He's not even a good red zone target.Yes, Bowe is their #1...and you really don't expect them to ever have Charles and Hillis on the field at the same time? It won't be common, but it will happen. Either way, both will have more targets by the end of the season than Moeaki, barring injury. What Moeaki has also shown is that he's injury prone. Either way, Baldwin is currently the THIRD WR on the team, and Daboll has shown that he prefers to throw to his WRs over his TEs when he actually has WRs that can get open, which Breaston and Baldwin can do. Yes, Baldwin may end up a bust, but after Moeaki's injuries and his injury proneness, I'd put my money on the 1st round pick who has a much higher ceiling.Breaston as the #3? He's the starting WR. You're just pulling #### out of your ### without any knowledge now. Bowe, Breaston, Charles, and Hillis have all shown more receiving ability than Moeaki. Baldwin has shown greater upside, and equal if not better receiving ability than Moeaki, and he did it in spot starts. Kevin Boss has shown equal receiving ability and better blocking ability than Moeaki. Why does Gonzalez have value? Because the only receivers on that team who have shown any ability are Roddy White and Julio Jones. Michael Turner has lost his legs and Jacquizz Rodgers has many question marks surrounding him. Therefore, he's the third target on the team. Plus, he has many years of work to show his receiving ability.Martellus Bennett has value because of the same reasoning as Gonzalez. He only has Nicks and Cruz in front of him that have shown consistent receiving ability. Bradshaw is losing his legs too and Wilson still has question marks surrounding him.Do I have to repeat the same thing for Finley?

Where does McCluster fit into the offense? Will he see any opportunities? He seemed to have a good preseason...

I forgot about McCluster. Personally I believe he'll be their slot WR in a rotation. I see a lot of rotation between Breaston/Baldwin at flanker. Slot will see a rotation of Breaston/Baldwin/McCluster. Breaston and Baldwin are better slot options, in my opinion. That's how their three wide sets will look. I believe McCluster will get less targets than last season...he's just too small and was Haley's gimmick guy...Chris Rainey's role now in Pittsburgh. I don't see how McCluster will last in KC unless he improves with returns. I would put McCluster about equal to targets to Moeaki. More if Breaston/Baldwin goes down or Baldwin doesn't show anything. In my opinion, Moeaki is a guy to watch because there is a small chance he could have backup fantasy TE value, but currently he's not even at that value in my opinion. Bowe is easily Cassel's go to guy. I believe out of the last 20 games where Bowe had Cassel as his QB, he's racked up 100+ receptions, 2000+ yards and about 19 TDs. The average was around 5+ receptions per game, 90+ yards per game, and of course just barely under 1 TD per game. If Breaston/Baldwin aren't open, he'll easily go to Charles/Hillis for their dependable hands.Fantasy-wise, I believe Bowe is a stud. Charles and Hillis will be very dependable if not every week starters. Breaston/Baldwin will only be bye week WW pickup based on matchup. Moeaki/Boss/McCluster has no value in my opinion. In keeper/dynasty though, of course Baldwin would have greater value. And of course this all depends on how much Cassel decides not to suck this season.This is all coming from a Raiders fan and an owner who just traded Bowe AWAY in a dynasty league. I'm no KC homer. I just like to pay attention to AFC West teams much more.

 

[Tree Shaker]

But Kevin Boss is starting...yes, they'll be running a two TE set a lot, but I doubt either produces much. They'll be blocking. It will be the Hillis/Charles show.

I think with Cassel's level of proficiency, this might be the best plan. Just thinking maybe Moeaki gets a redzone look or two over the next few weeks.

I honestly expect him to get no more than 2 TDs for the season, barring injury to Boss. He's not some big red zone target. I'd expect about a 60/40 split between Boss and Moeaki for about 60 receptions, 700 yds, and 3 TDs.Hillis' good season came with Daboll, there's a reason Daboll wanted him and it's easy to see that Hillis and Charles will have a Thunder and Lightning combo. Another reason why they went out and got a guy like Winston. Yes, Ben Watson had a decent statistical year with Daboll too, but that's because Cleveland had no WRs. Daboll used Brandon Marshall extensively and now he has a top split end in Bowe and a WR with great upside in Baldwin. You also can't forget that Breaston is still there. Plus, Atlanta's LBs and DBs have more than enough ability to cover Moeaki, IMO. Moeaki is a guy to keep an eye on and add if he does show something. I don't believe his upside is very high though since he would be the 5th option on that offense at best, but probably 7th. I have Bowe, Breaston, Baldwin, Hillis, Charles, and Boss in front of him for targets.

Hillis, Charles and Breaston are not going to be ahead of him on the same play. Bowe is their #1. Both Charles and Hillis are good receivers, but other than in designed screens, the RB is going to be one of the later options in the QB's progression. If Moeaki is good, he's going to get chances before Cassell looks to dump off to Hillis or Charles. Not to mention the RB's are going to be splitting time, which means he'll only have one of them on the field each play to contend with. Baldwin may be something, but then again, he may not. And Moeaki has shown just as much potential as Baldwin has.Breaston? Seriously? He's going to see some looks as the #3, but he isn't taking looks from anyone.Man, people act like he has world beaters in front of him. If we apply that same analysis, how could anyone think Gonzalez or Martellus Bennett or Finley could have any value? They each have better WR's in front of them than Bowe and Baldwin, and they have promising slot men and (other than GB) decent pass catching RB's to contend with.This all hinges on Cassell. If he makes it a small pie, everyone is going to have a lean year, though Bowe will still be startable. But if he makes it a big pie, then there's enough for Moeaki too.

Who said they'll be ahead of him on a play? I said TARGETS. Also, do you seriously think the Chiefs actually have a PLANNED play for Moeaki to be the first target? He's not even a good red zone target.Yes, Bowe is their #1...and you really don't expect them to ever have Charles and Hillis on the field at the same time? It won't be common, but it will happen. Either way, both will have more targets by the end of the season than Moeaki, barring injury. What Moeaki has also shown is that he's injury prone. Either way, Baldwin is currently the THIRD WR on the team, and Daboll has shown that he prefers to throw to his WRs over his TEs when he actually has WRs that can get open, which Breaston and Baldwin can do. Yes, Baldwin may end up a bust, but after Moeaki's injuries and his injury proneness, I'd put my money on the 1st round pick who has a much higher ceiling.Breaston as the #3? He's the starting WR. You're just pulling #### out of your ### without any knowledge now. Bowe, Breaston, Charles, and Hillis have all shown more receiving ability than Moeaki. Baldwin has shown greater upside, and equal if not better receiving ability than Moeaki, and he did it in spot starts. Kevin Boss has shown equal receiving ability and better blocking ability than Moeaki. Why does Gonzalez have value? Because the only receivers on that team who have shown any ability are Roddy White and Julio Jones. Michael Turner has lost his legs and Jacquizz Rodgers has many question marks surrounding him. Therefore, he's the third target on the team. Plus, he has many years of work to show his receiving ability.Martellus Bennett has value because of the same reasoning as Gonzalez. He only has Nicks and Cruz in front of him that have shown consistent receiving ability. Bradshaw is losing his legs too and Wilson still has question marks surrounding him.Do I have to repeat the same thing for Finley?

Where does McCluster fit into the offense? Will he see any opportunities? He seemed to have a good preseason...

I forgot about McCluster. Personally I believe he'll be their slot WR in a rotation. I see a lot of rotation between Breaston/Baldwin at flanker. Slot will see a rotation of Breaston/Baldwin/McCluster. Breaston and Baldwin are better slot options, in my opinion. That's how their three wide sets will look. I believe McCluster will get less targets than last season...he's just too small and was Haley's gimmick guy...Chris Rainey's role now in Pittsburgh. I don't see how McCluster will last in KC unless he improves with returns. I would put McCluster about equal to targets to Moeaki. More if Breaston/Baldwin goes down or Baldwin doesn't show anything. In my opinion, Moeaki is a guy to watch because there is a small chance he could have backup fantasy TE value, but currently he's not even at that value in my opinion. Bowe is easily Cassel's go to guy. I believe out of the last 20 games where Bowe had Cassel as his QB, he's racked up 100+ receptions, 2000+ yards and about 19 TDs. The average was around 5+ receptions per game, 90+ yards per game, and of course just barely under 1 TD per game. If Breaston/Baldwin aren't open, he'll easily go to Charles/Hillis for their dependable hands.Fantasy-wise, I believe Bowe is a stud. Charles and Hillis will be very dependable if not every week starters. Breaston/Baldwin will only be bye week WW pickup based on matchup. Moeaki/Boss/McCluster has no value in my opinion. In keeper/dynasty though, of course Baldwin would have greater value. And of course this all depends on how much Cassel decides not to suck this season.This is all coming from a Raiders fan and an owner who just traded Bowe AWAY in a dynasty league. I'm no KC homer. I just like to pay attention to AFC West teams much more.

Yeah, I forgot about McCluster. Given that, I'll have to agree that Moeaki will probably be relegated to being a blocker for Charles/Hillis and have relatively scant fantasy impact.

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

There are a couple of TEs out there who don't seem to be getting much press lately; TEs like Tony Moeaki and Lance Kendricks. But I'm intrigued a bit more by Moeaki in Week 1 for a number of reasons:

[*]ATL gave up the 14th most fantasy points to TEs last year - not an overwhelming stat, but it does rank them out of the top defenses vs. the TE;

[*]Former Chiefs hero Tony Gonzalez will be back in town for the game, so there might be some motivation to get Moeaki involved early as a show of respect/defiance;

Now I like moeaki, but theses are both non-factors. Complete new DC/scheme in ATL. The other one is too bizarre or words. Yeah let's showcase moeaki... that'll show tony Gonzalez.

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

But Kevin Boss is starting...yes, they'll be running a two TE set a lot, but I doubt either produces much. They'll be blocking. It will be the Hillis/Charles show.

I think with Cassel's level of proficiency, this might be the best plan. Just thinking maybe Moeaki gets a redzone look or two over the next few weeks.

I honestly expect him to get no more than 2 TDs for the season, barring injury to Boss. He's not some big red zone target. I'd expect about a 60/40 split between Boss and Moeaki for about 60 receptions, 700 yds, and 3 TDs.Hillis' good season came with Daboll, there's a reason Daboll wanted him and it's easy to see that Hillis and Charles will have a Thunder and Lightning combo. Another reason why they went out and got a guy like Winston. Yes, Ben Watson had a decent statistical year with Daboll too, but that's because Cleveland had no WRs. Daboll used Brandon Marshall extensively and now he has a top split end in Bowe and a WR with great upside in Baldwin. You also can't forget that Breaston is still there.

Plus, Atlanta's LBs and DBs have more than enough ability to cover Moeaki, IMO. Moeaki is a guy to keep an eye on and add if he does show something. I don't believe his upside is very high though since he would be the 5th option on that offense at best, but probably 7th. I have Bowe, Breaston, Baldwin, Hillis, Charles, and Boss in front of him for targets.

Hillis, Charles and Breaston are not going to be ahead of him on the same play. Bowe is their #1. Both Charles and Hillis are good receivers, but other than in designed screens, the RB is going to be one of the later options in the QB's progression. If Moeaki is good, he's going to get chances before Cassell looks to dump off to Hillis or Charles. Not to mention the RB's are going to be splitting time, which means he'll only have one of them on the field each play to contend with.

Baldwin may be something, but then again, he may not. And Moeaki has shown just as much potential as Baldwin has.

Breaston? Seriously? He's going to see some looks as the #3, but he isn't taking looks from anyone.

Man, people act like he has world beaters in front of him. If we apply that same analysis, how could anyone think Gonzalez or Martellus Bennett or Finley could have any value? They each have better WR's in front of them than Bowe and Baldwin, and they have promising slot men and (other than GB) decent pass catching RB's to contend with.

This all hinges on Cassell. If he makes it a small pie, everyone is going to have a lean year, though Bowe will still be startable. But if he makes it a big pie, then there's enough for Moeaki too.

Who said they'll be ahead of him on a play? I said TARGETS. Also, do you seriously think the Chiefs actually have a PLANNED play for Moeaki to be the first target? He's not even a good red zone target.Yes, Bowe is their #1...and you really don't expect them to ever have Charles and Hillis on the field at the same time? It won't be common, but it will happen. Either way, both will have more targets by the end of the season than Moeaki, barring injury.

What Moeaki has also shown is that he's injury prone. Either way, Baldwin is currently the THIRD WR on the team, and Daboll has shown that he prefers to throw to his WRs over his TEs when he actually has WRs that can get open, which Breaston and Baldwin can do. Yes, Baldwin may end up a bust, but after Moeaki's injuries and his injury proneness, I'd put my money on the 1st round pick who has a much higher ceiling. Because guess what? Moeaki can end up being a bust too and having 2010 be his only somewhat productive season of his career.

Breaston as the #3? He's the starting WR. You're just pulling #### out of your ### without any knowledge now.

Bowe, Breaston, Charles, and Hillis have all shown more receiving ability than Moeaki. Baldwin has shown greater upside, and equal if not better receiving ability than Moeaki, and he did it in spot starts. Kevin Boss has shown equal receiving ability and better blocking ability than Moeaki.

Why does Gonzalez have value? Because the only receivers on that team who have shown any ability are Roddy White and Julio Jones. Michael Turner has lost his legs and Jacquizz Rodgers has many question marks surrounding him. Therefore, he's the third target on the team. Plus, he has many years of work to show his receiving ability.

Martellus Bennett has value because of the same reasoning as Gonzalez. He only has Nicks and Cruz in front of him that have shown consistent receiving ability. Bradshaw is losing his legs too and Wilson still has question marks surrounding him.

Do I have to repeat the same thing for Finley?

Please don't. Most of that was absurd enough as it is.Counterpoint

My link

 

[whatadai]

But Kevin Boss is starting...yes, they'll be running a two TE set a lot, but I doubt either produces much. They'll be blocking. It will be the Hillis/Charles show.

I think with Cassel's level of proficiency, this might be the best plan. Just thinking maybe Moeaki gets a redzone look or two over the next few weeks.

I honestly expect him to get no more than 2 TDs for the season, barring injury to Boss. He's not some big red zone target. I'd expect about a 60/40 split between Boss and Moeaki for about 60 receptions, 700 yds, and 3 TDs.Hillis' good season came with Daboll, there's a reason Daboll wanted him and it's easy to see that Hillis and Charles will have a Thunder and Lightning combo. Another reason why they went out and got a guy like Winston. Yes, Ben Watson had a decent statistical year with Daboll too, but that's because Cleveland had no WRs. Daboll used Brandon Marshall extensively and now he has a top split end in Bowe and a WR with great upside in Baldwin. You also can't forget that Breaston is still there.

Plus, Atlanta's LBs and DBs have more than enough ability to cover Moeaki, IMO. Moeaki is a guy to keep an eye on and add if he does show something. I don't believe his upside is very high though since he would be the 5th option on that offense at best, but probably 7th. I have Bowe, Breaston, Baldwin, Hillis, Charles, and Boss in front of him for targets.

Hillis, Charles and Breaston are not going to be ahead of him on the same play. Bowe is their #1. Both Charles and Hillis are good receivers, but other than in designed screens, the RB is going to be one of the later options in the QB's progression. If Moeaki is good, he's going to get chances before Cassell looks to dump off to Hillis or Charles. Not to mention the RB's are going to be splitting time, which means he'll only have one of them on the field each play to contend with.

Baldwin may be something, but then again, he may not. And Moeaki has shown just as much potential as Baldwin has.

Breaston? Seriously? He's going to see some looks as the #3, but he isn't taking looks from anyone.

Man, people act like he has world beaters in front of him. If we apply that same analysis, how could anyone think Gonzalez or Martellus Bennett or Finley could have any value? They each have better WR's in front of them than Bowe and Baldwin, and they have promising slot men and (other than GB) decent pass catching RB's to contend with.

This all hinges on Cassell. If he makes it a small pie, everyone is going to have a lean year, though Bowe will still be startable. But if he makes it a big pie, then there's enough for Moeaki too.

Who said they'll be ahead of him on a play? I said TARGETS. Also, do you seriously think the Chiefs actually have a PLANNED play for Moeaki to be the first target? He's not even a good red zone target.Yes, Bowe is their #1...and you really don't expect them to ever have Charles and Hillis on the field at the same time? It won't be common, but it will happen. Either way, both will have more targets by the end of the season than Moeaki, barring injury.

What Moeaki has also shown is that he's injury prone. Either way, Baldwin is currently the THIRD WR on the team, and Daboll has shown that he prefers to throw to his WRs over his TEs when he actually has WRs that can get open, which Breaston and Baldwin can do. Yes, Baldwin may end up a bust, but after Moeaki's injuries and his injury proneness, I'd put my money on the 1st round pick who has a much higher ceiling. Because guess what? Moeaki can end up being a bust too and having 2010 be his only somewhat productive season of his career.

Breaston as the #3? He's the starting WR. You're just pulling #### out of your ### without any knowledge now.

Bowe, Breaston, Charles, and Hillis have all shown more receiving ability than Moeaki. Baldwin has shown greater upside, and equal if not better receiving ability than Moeaki, and he did it in spot starts. Kevin Boss has shown equal receiving ability and better blocking ability than Moeaki.

Why does Gonzalez have value? Because the only receivers on that team who have shown any ability are Roddy White and Julio Jones. Michael Turner has lost his legs and Jacquizz Rodgers has many question marks surrounding him. Therefore, he's the third target on the team. Plus, he has many years of work to show his receiving ability.

Martellus Bennett has value because of the same reasoning as Gonzalez. He only has Nicks and Cruz in front of him that have shown consistent receiving ability. Bradshaw is losing his legs too and Wilson still has question marks surrounding him.

Do I have to repeat the same thing for Finley?

Please don't. Most of that was absurd enough as it is.Counterpoint

My link

OMG a one handed play. No one ever does that and goes on to do nothing else in the rest of his career.

 

[JamesTheScot]

But Kevin Boss is starting...yes, they'll be running a two TE set a lot, but I doubt either produces much. They'll be blocking. It will be the Hillis/Charles show.

I think with Cassel's level of proficiency, this might be the best plan. Just thinking maybe Moeaki gets a redzone look or two over the next few weeks.

I honestly expect him to get no more than 2 TDs for the season, barring injury to Boss. He's not some big red zone target. I'd expect about a 60/40 split between Boss and Moeaki for about 60 receptions, 700 yds, and 3 TDs.Hillis' good season came with Daboll, there's a reason Daboll wanted him and it's easy to see that Hillis and Charles will have a Thunder and Lightning combo. Another reason why they went out and got a guy like Winston. Yes, Ben Watson had a decent statistical year with Daboll too, but that's because Cleveland had no WRs. Daboll used Brandon Marshall extensively and now he has a top split end in Bowe and a WR with great upside in Baldwin. You also can't forget that Breaston is still there. Plus, Atlanta's LBs and DBs have more than enough ability to cover Moeaki, IMO. Moeaki is a guy to keep an eye on and add if he does show something. I don't believe his upside is very high though since he would be the 5th option on that offense at best, but probably 7th. I have Bowe, Breaston, Baldwin, Hillis, Charles, and Boss in front of him for targets.

Hillis, Charles and Breaston are not going to be ahead of him on the same play. Bowe is their #1. Both Charles and Hillis are good receivers, but other than in designed screens, the RB is going to be one of the later options in the QB's progression. If Moeaki is good, he's going to get chances before Cassell looks to dump off to Hillis or Charles. Not to mention the RB's are going to be splitting time, which means he'll only have one of them on the field each play to contend with. Baldwin may be something, but then again, he may not. And Moeaki has shown just as much potential as Baldwin has.Breaston? Seriously? He's going to see some looks as the #3, but he isn't taking looks from anyone.Man, people act like he has world beaters in front of him. If we apply that same analysis, how could anyone think Gonzalez or Martellus Bennett or Finley could have any value? They each have better WR's in front of them than Bowe and Baldwin, and they have promising slot men and (other than GB) decent pass catching RB's to contend with.This all hinges on Cassell. If he makes it a small pie, everyone is going to have a lean year, though Bowe will still be startable. But if he makes it a big pie, then there's enough for Moeaki too.

Who said they'll be ahead of him on a play? I said TARGETS. Also, do you seriously think the Chiefs actually have a PLANNED play for Moeaki to be the first target? He's not even a good red zone target.Yes, Bowe is their #1...and you really don't expect them to ever have Charles and Hillis on the field at the same time? It won't be common, but it will happen. Either way, both will have more targets by the end of the season than Moeaki, barring injury. What Moeaki has also shown is that he's injury prone. Either way, Baldwin is currently the THIRD WR on the team, and Daboll has shown that he prefers to throw to his WRs over his TEs when he actually has WRs that can get open, which Breaston and Baldwin can do. Yes, Baldwin may end up a bust, but after Moeaki's injuries and his injury proneness, I'd put my money on the 1st round pick who has a much higher ceiling. Because guess what? Moeaki can end up being a bust too and having 2010 be his only somewhat productive season of his career.Breaston as the #3? He's the starting WR. You're just pulling #### out of your ### without any knowledge now. Bowe, Breaston, Charles, and Hillis have all shown more receiving ability than Moeaki. Baldwin has shown greater upside, and equal if not better receiving ability than Moeaki, and he did it in spot starts. Kevin Boss has shown equal receiving ability and better blocking ability than Moeaki. Why does Gonzalez have value? Because the only receivers on that team who have shown any ability are Roddy White and Julio Jones. Michael Turner has lost his legs and Jacquizz Rodgers has many question marks surrounding him. Therefore, he's the third target on the team. Plus, he has many years of work to show his receiving ability.Martellus Bennett has value because of the same reasoning as Gonzalez. He only has Nicks and Cruz in front of him that have shown consistent receiving ability. Bradshaw is losing his legs too and Wilson still has question marks surrounding him.Do I have to repeat the same thing for Finley?

Hillis and Charles are not going to be on the field at the same time often enough to make a difference. And when they do, it will have no bearing on Moeaki's passing targets one way or the other.Also, nice use of a strawman argument. I didn't claim that Moeaki gets first read by design. I said he'll get a look in progressions before the RB dump-off will. That matters to your argument because you keep talking about how many targets Hillis and Charles are going to get. RB targets can be drastically affected by the quality of the WR's and TE's earlier in the read progression. How many plays did DeMarco Murray play the other night and yet how many targets did he get? You don't think it had anything to do with Ogletree getting open at will against the Giant's DB's?Now, I think there will be some passes where Moeaki is going to be a second read if not the first. It won't necessarily be by design, but it'll come from pre-snap coverage reads. It's actually not that uncommon even if you don't have a great TE. How else do you think Ben Watson led Cleveland in receptions in 2010 under Daboll? But i think you knew that. That's why you qualified your comment about him preferring to go to his WR's. That was because he's only had one of his three seasons where a WR did anything for him, and that was Brandon Marshall in Miami last year. And Anthony Fasano was Daboll's TE last year, so what does Miami really tell us? Nothing about positional biases, I can tell you that.In Daboll, I see a guy who is flexible and will go with whoever is effective. He'll feed his WR's, his TE's or his RB's. Because that's what his history shows. That essentially makes it a talent question. So if you think Moeaki has talent, then trust Daboll to utilize his TE like he has in the past. But if you don't think Moeaki is that talented, then expect Daboll to not utilize him that much. Saying Daboll just loves him some WR to the detriment of TE's is shaky logic based on his 3 years of OC experience. The sample size is so small, and the situations so unique (in terms of crappy roster composition), it's a mistake to draw firm conclusions about his preferences.As for Breaston, it's obvious you like him. Enjoy the love. Breaston's numbers don't look bad last year, but Moeaki was hurt and Baldwin was a rookie with a short preseason. KC was dying for someone to step up last year...and Breaston didn't really do it.As for Moeaki being/not being a red zone threat, he's just starting his second year of actual play. He played in zero games last year, his second season. So that's some body of work from which you are calling on to make such a conclusive opinion. But lets talk about that rookie year. Moeaki had 47 catches as a rookie and 3 TD's. And that was with a healthy Bowe and Charles involved. In fact, Moeaki was the second leading receiver for the Chiefs that season. He had two more catches than Charles that year.

 

[whatadai]

But Kevin Boss is starting...yes, they'll be running a two TE set a lot, but I doubt either produces much. They'll be blocking. It will be the Hillis/Charles show.

I think with Cassel's level of proficiency, this might be the best plan. Just thinking maybe Moeaki gets a redzone look or two over the next few weeks.

I honestly expect him to get no more than 2 TDs for the season, barring injury to Boss. He's not some big red zone target. I'd expect about a 60/40 split between Boss and Moeaki for about 60 receptions, 700 yds, and 3 TDs.Hillis' good season came with Daboll, there's a reason Daboll wanted him and it's easy to see that Hillis and Charles will have a Thunder and Lightning combo. Another reason why they went out and got a guy like Winston. Yes, Ben Watson had a decent statistical year with Daboll too, but that's because Cleveland had no WRs. Daboll used Brandon Marshall extensively and now he has a top split end in Bowe and a WR with great upside in Baldwin. You also can't forget that Breaston is still there.

Plus, Atlanta's LBs and DBs have more than enough ability to cover Moeaki, IMO. Moeaki is a guy to keep an eye on and add if he does show something. I don't believe his upside is very high though since he would be the 5th option on that offense at best, but probably 7th. I have Bowe, Breaston, Baldwin, Hillis, Charles, and Boss in front of him for targets.

Hillis, Charles and Breaston are not going to be ahead of him on the same play. Bowe is their #1. Both Charles and Hillis are good receivers, but other than in designed screens, the RB is going to be one of the later options in the QB's progression. If Moeaki is good, he's going to get chances before Cassell looks to dump off to Hillis or Charles. Not to mention the RB's are going to be splitting time, which means he'll only have one of them on the field each play to contend with.

Baldwin may be something, but then again, he may not. And Moeaki has shown just as much potential as Baldwin has.

Breaston? Seriously? He's going to see some looks as the #3, but he isn't taking looks from anyone.

Man, people act like he has world beaters in front of him. If we apply that same analysis, how could anyone think Gonzalez or Martellus Bennett or Finley could have any value? They each have better WR's in front of them than Bowe and Baldwin, and they have promising slot men and (other than GB) decent pass catching RB's to contend with.

This all hinges on Cassell. If he makes it a small pie, everyone is going to have a lean year, though Bowe will still be startable. But if he makes it a big pie, then there's enough for Moeaki too.

Who said they'll be ahead of him on a play? I said TARGETS. Also, do you seriously think the Chiefs actually have a PLANNED play for Moeaki to be the first target? He's not even a good red zone target.Yes, Bowe is their #1...and you really don't expect them to ever have Charles and Hillis on the field at the same time? It won't be common, but it will happen. Either way, both will have more targets by the end of the season than Moeaki, barring injury.

What Moeaki has also shown is that he's injury prone. Either way, Baldwin is currently the THIRD WR on the team, and Daboll has shown that he prefers to throw to his WRs over his TEs when he actually has WRs that can get open, which Breaston and Baldwin can do. Yes, Baldwin may end up a bust, but after Moeaki's injuries and his injury proneness, I'd put my money on the 1st round pick who has a much higher ceiling. Because guess what? Moeaki can end up being a bust too and having 2010 be his only somewhat productive season of his career.

Breaston as the #3? He's the starting WR. You're just pulling #### out of your ### without any knowledge now.

Bowe, Breaston, Charles, and Hillis have all shown more receiving ability than Moeaki. Baldwin has shown greater upside, and equal if not better receiving ability than Moeaki, and he did it in spot starts. Kevin Boss has shown equal receiving ability and better blocking ability than Moeaki.

Why does Gonzalez have value? Because the only receivers on that team who have shown any ability are Roddy White and Julio Jones. Michael Turner has lost his legs and Jacquizz Rodgers has many question marks surrounding him. Therefore, he's the third target on the team. Plus, he has many years of work to show his receiving ability.

Martellus Bennett has value because of the same reasoning as Gonzalez. He only has Nicks and Cruz in front of him that have shown consistent receiving ability. Bradshaw is losing his legs too and Wilson still has question marks surrounding him.

Do I have to repeat the same thing for Finley?

Hillis and Charles are not going to be on the field at the same time often enough to make a difference. And when they do, it will have no bearing on Moeaki's passing targets one way or the other.Also, nice use of a strawman argument. I didn't claim that Moeaki gets first read by design. I said he'll get a look in progressions before the RB dump-off will. That matters to your argument because you keep talking about how many targets Hillis and Charles are going to get. RB targets can be drastically affected by the quality of the WR's and TE's earlier in the read progression. How many plays did DeMarco Murray play the other night and yet how many targets did he get? You don't think it had anything to do with Ogletree getting open at will against the Giant's DB's?

Now, I think there will be some passes where Moeaki is going to be a second read if not the first. It won't necessarily be by design, but it'll come from pre-snap coverage reads. It's actually not that uncommon even if you don't have a great TE. How else do you think Ben Watson led Cleveland in receptions in 2010 under Daboll? But i think you knew that. That's why you qualified your comment about him preferring to go to his WR's. That was because he's only had one of his three seasons where a WR did anything for him, and that was Brandon Marshall in Miami last year. And Anthony Fasano was Daboll's TE last year, so what does Miami really tell us? Nothing about positional biases, I can tell you that.

In Daboll, I see a guy who is flexible and will go with whoever is effective. He'll feed his WR's, his TE's or his RB's. Because that's what his history shows. That essentially makes it a talent question. So if you think Moeaki has talent, then trust Daboll to utilize his TE like he has in the past. But if you don't think Moeaki is that talented, then expect Daboll to not utilize him that much. Saying Daboll just loves him some WR to the detriment of TE's is shaky logic based on his 3 years of OC experience. The sample size is so small, and the situations so unique (in terms of crappy roster composition), it's a mistake to draw firm conclusions about his preferences.

As for Breaston, it's obvious you like him. Enjoy the love. Breaston's numbers don't look bad last year, but Moeaki was hurt and Baldwin was a rookie with a short preseason. KC was dying for someone to step up last year...and Breaston didn't really do it.

As for Moeaki being/not being a red zone threat, he's just starting his second year of actual play. He played in zero games last year, his second season. So that's some body of work from which you are calling on to make such a conclusive opinion. But lets talk about that rookie year. Moeaki had 47 catches as a rookie and 3 TD's. And that was with a healthy Bowe and Charles involved. In fact, Moeaki was the second leading receiver for the Chiefs that season. He had two more catches than Charles that year.

You're the one that started with the strawman argument because all I ever said was that by the end of the year I see Moeaki being 5th at best in targets. Then you go and say that the other skill players won't be "ahead of him" on the same plays, which I clearly never said anything about in my original post. A player could be Cassel's second option after Moeaki every time and still have more targets than him. So nice job on using the strawman argument and then saying I brought that topic up after I respond to it. Yes, I knew that Ben Watson was the second option on many plays in 2010 in Cleveland. Why? Because of the reason that I stated before, their WRs sucked...and I would add on that it was because their backup QB sucked too. The reason Watson had so many targets was because in 2010 Delhomme was the starter, who actually threw passes to his WRs instead of his TE. Yes, he sucked, but compared to McCoy, he was good. McCoy couldn't pass and still can't pass. Yes, their starting WRs, Massaquoi and Robiskie, sucked ###; but when Delhomme went down, McCoy did not throw to their WRs nor Hillis as much. With Delhomme in the game Massaquoi, Robiskie and Hillis saw a huge increase in targets while Watson saw a huge increase in targets with McCoy in the game. Why didn't McCoy checkdown to Hillis if he was so horrible? Hell if I know, but watching him, I would assume that he never got past his second look. Probably gave Massaquoi a look, immediately decided every time that he couldn't get the ball to him and feared the collapsing pocket and threw it to his second option, Watson. Considering his weak arm and accuracy beyond 10 yards and his horrible pocket presence, I wouldn't be surprised if Daboll had made Hillis pass block more and Watson as McCoy's first look. So what I see is an OC who wanted his QB to throw to his WRs and checkdown to his RB when needed, but when his starting QB went down and he had McCoy who couldn't throw beyond 10 yards, he had to make do with what he had and that was his TE. Then when Delhomme finally came back, he threw to his WRs again.

So you see a guy who is flexible...and I see a guy who uses his WRs and RBs over his TEs when he actually has some good ones, yet my opinion based on the same facts is incorrect compared to yours just cause you said so. Nice job on continuing to roll with your logical fallacies. I never stated that it was a solid fact, I was stating that KC has many skill players that have very dependable hands, all of whom, have shown more or equal experience and dependability than Moeaki. It's also my opinion, that Daboll prefers to throw to his WRs when he has a QB that can do so and decent WRs that can get open and catch the passes, which KC has compared to the #### he had in Cleveland and Miami.

So all I say about Breaston is that he's the starter because KC has him officially listed as the starter, he's started all pre-season games, and that he's shown more experience and dependability than Moeaki and your reasoning is because " like him." Yeah, because when I say he'll be in a rotation with Baldwin for both the slot and outside...it means that I believe the guy is a great a WR, because great WRs are thrown into rotations. You probably completely ignored that part of my posts to prove your own point. It's funny how I named about 7 other players who I believe will have a larger statistical impact due to similar reasons, yet I "love" Breaston and not the others. There's a couple of logical fallacies in your argument there too.

Moeaki has a larger body of work than one year. It's called college, which showed that he had good blocking ability, some receiving ability, and that he was injury prone. His abilities make him a "move" tightend so yes, he can catch, but in red zone situations, don't be surprised to see KC mainly move to the run game and have more than enough plays where Bowe or Baldwin are the first reads. Bowe has shown he's a great red zone target and Baldwin has been receiving heaps of praise in the off-season and part of it was due to his red zone abilities. The other problem is Kevin Boss, who is the starting TE and the in-line TE, which will be used more due to their run heavy offense. So already Moeaki's upside is capped for only when they're in 2 TE sets. While I expect their 2 TE sets to be used moderately high, the main purpose is for blocking. Yes, Moeaki had 47 catches and 3 TDs as a rookie...but that was also with a full 16 game season as a STARTER. Not only that, Bowe had #### across from him...all much worse than Breaston and Baldwin, which made Moeaki the second read on that offense in 2010. Then you throw in Hillis and McCluster and you really think Moeaki can make a big statistical impact this year?

It's not my problem if you still believe he'll even be a TE2 in fantasy, go ahead and pick him up. Like I said, he has a small chance, but he should still be on the waiver wire and personally, I don't expect it to happen. It doesn't depend on how big the pie Cassel wants to make it...it depends on how much Daboll is going to run, which he is going to do a lot. And in a division with a lot of questionable offenses, they won't be playing catch up much.

 

[JamesTheScot]

But Kevin Boss is starting...yes, they'll be running a two TE set a lot, but I doubt either produces much. They'll be blocking. It will be the Hillis/Charles show.

I think with Cassel's level of proficiency, this might be the best plan. Just thinking maybe Moeaki gets a redzone look or two over the next few weeks.

I honestly expect him to get no more than 2 TDs for the season, barring injury to Boss. He's not some big red zone target. I'd expect about a 60/40 split between Boss and Moeaki for about 60 receptions, 700 yds, and 3 TDs.Hillis' good season came with Daboll, there's a reason Daboll wanted him and it's easy to see that Hillis and Charles will have a Thunder and Lightning combo. Another reason why they went out and got a guy like Winston. Yes, Ben Watson had a decent statistical year with Daboll too, but that's because Cleveland had no WRs. Daboll used Brandon Marshall extensively and now he has a top split end in Bowe and a WR with great upside in Baldwin. You also can't forget that Breaston is still there.

Plus, Atlanta's LBs and DBs have more than enough ability to cover Moeaki, IMO. Moeaki is a guy to keep an eye on and add if he does show something. I don't believe his upside is very high though since he would be the 5th option on that offense at best, but probably 7th. I have Bowe, Breaston, Baldwin, Hillis, Charles, and Boss in front of him for targets.

Hillis, Charles and Breaston are not going to be ahead of him on the same play. Bowe is their #1. Both Charles and Hillis are good receivers, but other than in designed screens, the RB is going to be one of the later options in the QB's progression. If Moeaki is good, he's going to get chances before Cassell looks to dump off to Hillis or Charles. Not to mention the RB's are going to be splitting time, which means he'll only have one of them on the field each play to contend with.

Baldwin may be something, but then again, he may not. And Moeaki has shown just as much potential as Baldwin has.

Breaston? Seriously? He's going to see some looks as the #3, but he isn't taking looks from anyone.

Man, people act like he has world beaters in front of him. If we apply that same analysis, how could anyone think Gonzalez or Martellus Bennett or Finley could have any value? They each have better WR's in front of them than Bowe and Baldwin, and they have promising slot men and (other than GB) decent pass catching RB's to contend with.

This all hinges on Cassell. If he makes it a small pie, everyone is going to have a lean year, though Bowe will still be startable. But if he makes it a big pie, then there's enough for Moeaki too.

Who said they'll be ahead of him on a play? I said TARGETS. Also, do you seriously think the Chiefs actually have a PLANNED play for Moeaki to be the first target? He's not even a good red zone target.Yes, Bowe is their #1...and you really don't expect them to ever have Charles and Hillis on the field at the same time? It won't be common, but it will happen. Either way, both will have more targets by the end of the season than Moeaki, barring injury.

What Moeaki has also shown is that he's injury prone. Either way, Baldwin is currently the THIRD WR on the team, and Daboll has shown that he prefers to throw to his WRs over his TEs when he actually has WRs that can get open, which Breaston and Baldwin can do. Yes, Baldwin may end up a bust, but after Moeaki's injuries and his injury proneness, I'd put my money on the 1st round pick who has a much higher ceiling. Because guess what? Moeaki can end up being a bust too and having 2010 be his only somewhat productive season of his career.

Breaston as the #3? He's the starting WR. You're just pulling #### out of your ### without any knowledge now.

Bowe, Breaston, Charles, and Hillis have all shown more receiving ability than Moeaki. Baldwin has shown greater upside, and equal if not better receiving ability than Moeaki, and he did it in spot starts. Kevin Boss has shown equal receiving ability and better blocking ability than Moeaki.

Why does Gonzalez have value? Because the only receivers on that team who have shown any ability are Roddy White and Julio Jones. Michael Turner has lost his legs and Jacquizz Rodgers has many question marks surrounding him. Therefore, he's the third target on the team. Plus, he has many years of work to show his receiving ability.

Martellus Bennett has value because of the same reasoning as Gonzalez. He only has Nicks and Cruz in front of him that have shown consistent receiving ability. Bradshaw is losing his legs too and Wilson still has question marks surrounding him.

Do I have to repeat the same thing for Finley?

Hillis and Charles are not going to be on the field at the same time often enough to make a difference. And when they do, it will have no bearing on Moeaki's passing targets one way or the other.Also, nice use of a strawman argument. I didn't claim that Moeaki gets first read by design. I said he'll get a look in progressions before the RB dump-off will. That matters to your argument because you keep talking about how many targets Hillis and Charles are going to get. RB targets can be drastically affected by the quality of the WR's and TE's earlier in the read progression. How many plays did DeMarco Murray play the other night and yet how many targets did he get? You don't think it had anything to do with Ogletree getting open at will against the Giant's DB's?

Now, I think there will be some passes where Moeaki is going to be a second read if not the first. It won't necessarily be by design, but it'll come from pre-snap coverage reads. It's actually not that uncommon even if you don't have a great TE. How else do you think Ben Watson led Cleveland in receptions in 2010 under Daboll? But i think you knew that. That's why you qualified your comment about him preferring to go to his WR's. That was because he's only had one of his three seasons where a WR did anything for him, and that was Brandon Marshall in Miami last year. And Anthony Fasano was Daboll's TE last year, so what does Miami really tell us? Nothing about positional biases, I can tell you that.

In Daboll, I see a guy who is flexible and will go with whoever is effective. He'll feed his WR's, his TE's or his RB's. Because that's what his history shows. That essentially makes it a talent question. So if you think Moeaki has talent, then trust Daboll to utilize his TE like he has in the past. But if you don't think Moeaki is that talented, then expect Daboll to not utilize him that much. Saying Daboll just loves him some WR to the detriment of TE's is shaky logic based on his 3 years of OC experience. The sample size is so small, and the situations so unique (in terms of crappy roster composition), it's a mistake to draw firm conclusions about his preferences.

As for Breaston, it's obvious you like him. Enjoy the love. Breaston's numbers don't look bad last year, but Moeaki was hurt and Baldwin was a rookie with a short preseason. KC was dying for someone to step up last year...and Breaston didn't really do it.

As for Moeaki being/not being a red zone threat, he's just starting his second year of actual play. He played in zero games last year, his second season. So that's some body of work from which you are calling on to make such a conclusive opinion. But lets talk about that rookie year. Moeaki had 47 catches as a rookie and 3 TD's. And that was with a healthy Bowe and Charles involved. In fact, Moeaki was the second leading receiver for the Chiefs that season. He had two more catches than Charles that year.

You're the one that started with the strawman argument because all I ever said was that by the end of the year I see Moeaki being 5th at best in targets. Then you go and say that the other skill players won't be "ahead of him" on the same plays, which I clearly never said anything about in my original post. A player could be Cassel's second option after Moeaki every time and still have more targets than him. So nice job on using the strawman argument and then saying I brought that topic up after I respond to it. Yes, I knew that Ben Watson was the second option on many plays in 2010 in Cleveland. Why? Because of the reason that I stated before, their WRs sucked...and I would add on that it was because their backup QB sucked too. The reason Watson had so many targets was because in 2010 Delhomme was the starter, who actually threw passes to his WRs instead of his TE. Yes, he sucked, but compared to McCoy, he was good. McCoy couldn't pass and still can't pass. Yes, their starting WRs, Massaquoi and Robiskie, sucked ###; but when Delhomme went down, McCoy did not throw to their WRs nor Hillis as much. With Delhomme in the game Massaquoi, Robiskie and Hillis saw a huge increase in targets while Watson saw a huge increase in targets with McCoy in the game. Why didn't McCoy checkdown to Hillis if he was so horrible? Hell if I know, but watching him, I would assume that he never got past his second look. Probably gave Massaquoi a look, immediately decided every time that he couldn't get the ball to him and feared the collapsing pocket and threw it to his second option, Watson. Considering his weak arm and accuracy beyond 10 yards and his horrible pocket presence, I wouldn't be surprised if Daboll had made Hillis pass block more and Watson as McCoy's first look. So what I see is an OC who wanted his QB to throw to his WRs and checkdown to his RB when needed, but when his starting QB went down and he had McCoy who couldn't throw beyond 10 yards, he had to make do with what he had and that was his TE. Then when Delhomme finally came back, he threw to his WRs again.

So you see a guy who is flexible...and I see a guy who uses his WRs and RBs over his TEs when he actually has some good ones, yet my opinion based on the same facts is incorrect compared to yours just cause you said so. Nice job on continuing to roll with your logical fallacies. I never stated that it was a solid fact, I was stating that KC has many skill players that have very dependable hands, all of whom, have shown more or equal experience and dependability than Moeaki. It's also my opinion, that Daboll prefers to throw to his WRs when he has a QB that can do so and decent WRs that can get open and catch the passes, which KC has compared to the #### he had in Cleveland and Miami.

So all I say about Breaston is that he's the starter because KC has him officially listed as the starter, he's started all pre-season games, and that he's shown more experience and dependability than Moeaki and your reasoning is because " like him." Yeah, because when I say he'll be in a rotation with Baldwin for both the slot and outside...it means that I believe the guy is a great a WR, because great WRs are thrown into rotations. You probably completely ignored that part of my posts to prove your own point. It's funny how I named about 7 other players who I believe will have a larger statistical impact due to similar reasons, yet I "love" Breaston and not the others. There's a couple of logical fallacies in your argument there too.

Moeaki has a larger body of work than one year. It's called college, which showed that he had good blocking ability, some receiving ability, and that he was injury prone. His abilities make him a "move" tightend so yes, he can catch, but in red zone situations, don't be surprised to see KC mainly move to the run game and have more than enough plays where Bowe or Baldwin are the first reads. Bowe has shown he's a great red zone target and Baldwin has been receiving heaps of praise in the off-season and part of it was due to his red zone abilities. The other problem is Kevin Boss, who is the starting TE and the in-line TE, which will be used more due to their run heavy offense. So already Moeaki's upside is capped for only when they're in 2 TE sets. While I expect their 2 TE sets to be used moderately high, the main purpose is for blocking. Yes, Moeaki had 47 catches and 3 TDs as a rookie...but that was also with a full 16 game season as a STARTER. Not only that, Bowe had #### across from him...all much worse than Breaston and Baldwin, which made Moeaki the second read on that offense in 2010. Then you throw in Hillis and McCluster and you really think Moeaki can make a big statistical impact this year?

It's not my problem if you still believe he'll even be a TE2 in fantasy, go ahead and pick him up. Like I said, he has a small chance, but he should still be on the waiver wire and personally, I don't expect it to happen. It doesn't depend on how big the pie Cassel wants to make it...it depends on how much Daboll is going to run, which he is going to do a lot. And in a division with a lot of questionable offenses, they won't be playing catch up much.

Targets after week 1:1) McCluster 10

2) Bowe - Moeaki 6

4) Breaston 4

5) Hillis 3

6) Boss - Draughn 2

8) Baldwin - Charles 0

 

[plymkr]

I think Maoeki could be a sneaky TE play this week if you need help. Kevin Boss is out, & there may be some points scored in New Orleans. Anyone have thoughts or more knowledge on this?