Travdogg's positional rankings from week 8 onward (1 Viewer)

[travdogg]

Which leads me to this. When Jefferson is back, I expect to move Addison and possible Hockenson down a little.

You expect Jefferson back, and you expect to move others down because of that. This implies that you are making your rankings based on total points for the regular season. Is that right? Meaning you don't take into account ppg or higher value (fantasy playoff) games?

That doesn't seem to jive with your stance on Fields vs. Cousins, for example.

Its like a weighted system. I don't know the exact timeline of Jefferson, so reports suggest he'll be ready to go when his 4 weeks are up, some have suggested 6 or more weeks. So, its a bit of a tiptoe act, because I think Addison and Hockenson will be more valuable with him out, but then how high do you put a guy who might be out until week 11 or so?

Fields isn't on IR, so presumably he'll be back next week or at worst the week after. When Fields is back DJ Moore will likely get a slight bump.

Its not an exact science, I try to weight more toward upside and best-case scenarios, as I'm a fence swinger by nature.

ARSB pace:

184 targets 136-1485-8

Pretty solid for WR8 eh

As always thanks @travdogg appreciate the effort & engagement

Its really been a great year to have gone zero RB, unless you got CMC.

St. Brown would be a top-3 WR on that pace most years, this year, WR8 sounds about right.

 

[jobarules]

How is cousins #11? This is laughable

Meanwhile JJ 10th, Addison 19th, TJ 4th

First, please drop the "laughable" shots. This can be a super useful thread for people and we can disagree without mocking or laughing at others.

Second, where do you think Cousins should be ranked for rest of season?

7th

No disagreement there. We have him QB8 for rest of season. https://www.footballguys.com/rankings/duration/restofseason?pos=qb

Also, a perfect example of why rankings are so difficult. We're not going to do it here anymore, but put a guy 4 spots from where someone else has him and it's

Thanks @travdogg for doing these. They're difficult. And thanks folks for the good discussion on these. I know when we do them, getting good feedback is super helpful.

The reason I call it laughable is because he has him ranked low every single week and he has refused to acknowledge what a good fantasy QB he is. Also he has him in Tier 4 where I have him bottom of Tier 2.

The past 2 weeks it was the Mahomes ranking that was laughable. He was ranked way too high. Now it's Cousins. Ranked way too low. OK.

? I never once argued Mahomes ranking. Stop with the BS. I've been questioning his Cousins ranking for weeks now.

 

[jobarules]

First, don't call rankings here laughable again please.

Joe, respectfully, IMO you are being heavy handed by weighing in to say not to call a ranking laughable. In the big picture, this is not significant crticism, and there is no indication that @travdogg is bothered by it. There was nothing uncivil about the discourse that warranted interceding. You have made multiple posts in the thread about it, when it otherwise would have been ignored by most everyone... you actually called more attention to it than it would have gotten otherwise. There is no problem here that warrants policing.

I'm sure the answer is going to be some derivative of: it's your board, this isn't what you stand for, you/we strive to be better here, yada yada. I generally agree with how you have managed the forums over the years, but there is no reason to go (IMO) over the top. My recommendation is just to lighten up a bit and save the policing for what actually needs policing. I expect my recommendation will be ignored because you don't agree and have a long history of being over the top about it, but there you have it.

Two cents, and would appreciate it if you don't suspend me over my opinion about it.

Still not good form. There's a better way to say it. "I appreciate the rankings, but disagree on Cousins for XYZ reasons. Have him at 7......"

I've given the reasons for Cousins in these threads several times. After 8 weeks I gave up and called the ranking laughable. Didn't think it was a big deal. Joe did, so much so he had to lecture me two times about it as if I didn't hear him the first time. I won't say laughable again. It obviously hit a nerve.

 

[The Dude]

I would rather have Ray Rice over most the guys in WR tier 7

 

[pinkstapler]

Pittman feels too low to me at 23. He's top 10 in targets and receptions, and top 15 in yards and fantasy scoring. His schedule down the stretch is pretty favorable too playing weak defenses most of the way; NO, NE, TB, Car. And then he gets Pitt and Atl weeks 15 and 16, most leagues semi finals and championship weeks. I'd probably have him 12-14, especially with how consistent he's been. Only one week scoring less than 10 points.

 

[Judge Smails]

How is cousins #11? This is laughable

Meanwhile JJ 10th, Addison 19th, TJ 4th

First, please drop the "laughable" shots. This can be a super useful thread for people and we can disagree without mocking or laughing at others.

Second, where do you think Cousins should be ranked for rest of season?

7th

No disagreement there. We have him QB8 for rest of season. https://www.footballguys.com/rankings/duration/restofseason?pos=qb

Also, a perfect example of why rankings are so difficult. We're not going to do it here anymore, but put a guy 4 spots from where someone else has him and it's

Thanks @travdogg for doing these. They're difficult. And thanks folks for the good discussion on these. I know when we do them, getting good feedback is super helpful.

The reason I call it laughable is because he has him ranked low every single week and he has refused to acknowledge what a good fantasy QB he is. Also he has him in Tier 4 where I have him bottom of Tier 2.

The past 2 weeks it was the Mahomes ranking that was laughable. He was ranked way too high. Now it's Cousins. Ranked way too low. OK.

? I never once argued Mahomes ranking. Stop with the BS. I've been questioning his Cousins ranking for weeks now.

so the multiple “can we just stop with the top 3 ranking of Mahomes every week……” in the Patrick Mahomes thread isn’t you?

 

[jobarules]

How is cousins #11? This is laughable

Meanwhile JJ 10th, Addison 19th, TJ 4th

First, please drop the "laughable" shots. This can be a super useful thread for people and we can disagree without mocking or laughing at others.

Second, where do you think Cousins should be ranked for rest of season?

7th

No disagreement there. We have him QB8 for rest of season. https://www.footballguys.com/rankings/duration/restofseason?pos=qb

Also, a perfect example of why rankings are so difficult. We're not going to do it here anymore, but put a guy 4 spots from where someone else has him and it's

Thanks @travdogg for doing these. They're difficult. And thanks folks for the good discussion on these. I know when we do them, getting good feedback is super helpful.

The reason I call it laughable is because he has him ranked low every single week and he has refused to acknowledge what a good fantasy QB he is. Also he has him in Tier 4 where I have him bottom of Tier 2.

The past 2 weeks it was the Mahomes ranking that was laughable. He was ranked way too high. Now it's Cousins. Ranked way too low. OK.

? I never once argued Mahomes ranking. Stop with the BS. I've been questioning his Cousins ranking for weeks now.

so the multiple “can we just stop with the top 3 ranking of Mahomes every week……” in the Patrick Mahomes thread isn’t you?

What does that have to do with THIS thread? These are REST OF SEASON rankings.

 

[travdogg]

I would rather have Ray Rice over most the guys in WR tier 7

I assume you mean Rashee Rice. I'd rather have a pound of candy corn (gross) than Ray Rice. He's on the radar, if he ever sees decent snaps.

Pittman feels too low to me at 23. He's top 10 in targets and receptions, and top 15 in yards and fantasy scoring. His schedule down the stretch is pretty favorable too playing weak defenses most of the way; NO, NE, TB, Car. And then he gets Pitt and Atl weeks 15 and 16, most leagues semi finals and championship weeks. I'd probably have him 12-14, especially with how consistent he's been. Only one week scoring less than 10 points.

My concern is how much offense can Indy support. Pittman had 25 catches in the first 3 games, and 17 in the last 4. Meanwhile Downs has 18 catches during the last 4. It feels like a nebulous situation to me. Especially as I think Indy would prefer to be a run heavy team, and Taylor has been ramping up.

Another note, while I would agree Pittman has been pretty consistent in full PPR, he's been a lot less so outside of it. He has fewer yards than he likes of Nico Collins and George Pickens, despite playing 1 more game than those guys. I think Pittman is a low-end WR2, due to a lack of high-end upside. Also, do most leagues have their semis and championships in weeks 15 and 16? Every league I'm in switched to weeks 16 and 17 since the NFL added a game.

 

[pinkstapler]

I would rather have Ray Rice over most the guys in WR tier 7

I assume you mean Rashee Rice. I'd rather have a pound of candy corn (gross) than Ray Rice. He's on the radar, if he ever sees decent snaps.

Pittman feels too low to me at 23. He's top 10 in targets and receptions, and top 15 in yards and fantasy scoring. His schedule down the stretch is pretty favorable too playing weak defenses most of the way; NO, NE, TB, Car. And then he gets Pitt and Atl weeks 15 and 16, most leagues semi finals and championship weeks. I'd probably have him 12-14, especially with how consistent he's been. Only one week scoring less than 10 points.

My concern is how much offense can Indy support. Pittman had 25 catches in the first 3 games, and 17 in the last 4. Meanwhile Downs has 18 catches during the last 4. It feels like a nebulous situation to me. Especially as I think Indy would prefer to be a run heavy team, and Taylor has been ramping up.

Another note, while I would agree Pittman has been pretty consistent in full PPR, he's been a lot less so outside of it. He has fewer yards than he likes of Nico Collins and George Pickens, despite playing 1 more game than those guys. I think Pittman is a low-end WR2, due to a lack of high-end upside. Also, do most leagues have their semis and championships in weeks 15 and 16? Every league I'm in switched to weeks 16 and 17 since the NFL added a game.

Guess it's just the leagues I'm in then. With teams proclivity to sit their starters at the end of the season, especially the playoff bound ones where most of the best fantasy players live, we forgo an extra reg season game to not have some fluky stuff happen in the playoffs. Not much worse than making it to the championship and then not being able to start Hill/Diggs/Chase etc. Other than having them get pulled after only playing a half I suppose. The only leagues I'm in that use week 17 have a two week championship, combining it with week 16. Again, just trying remove flukes/luck/randomness when possible.

 

[jobarules]

Pittman feels too low to me at 23. He's top 10 in targets and receptions, and top 15 in yards and fantasy scoring. His schedule down the stretch is pretty favorable too playing weak defenses most of the way; NO, NE, TB, Car. And then he gets Pitt and Atl weeks 15 and 16, most leagues semi finals and championship weeks. I'd probably have him 12-14, especially with how consistent he's been. Only one week scoring less than 10 points.

Your league is definitely in the minority. Most leagues championship is week 17

 

[Dickies]

First, don't call rankings here laughable again please.

Joe, respectfully, IMO you are being heavy handed by weighing in to say not to call a ranking laughable. In the big picture, this is not significant crticism, and there is no indication that @travdogg is bothered by it. There was nothing uncivil about the discourse that warranted interceding. You have made multiple posts in the thread about it, when it otherwise would have been ignored by most everyone... you actually called more attention to it than it would have gotten otherwise. There is no problem here that warrants policing.

I'm sure the answer is going to be some derivative of: it's your board, this isn't what you stand for, you/we strive to be better here, yada yada. I generally agree with how you have managed the forums over the years, but there is no reason to go (IMO) over the top. My recommendation is just to lighten up a bit and save the policing for what actually needs policing. I expect my recommendation will be ignored because you don't agree and have a long history of being over the top about it, but there you have it.

Two cents, and would appreciate it if you don't suspend me over my opinion about it.

Still not good form. There's a better way to say it. "I appreciate the rankings, but disagree on Cousins for XYZ reasons. Have him at 7......"

We can agree to disagree on this. Most of us here are adults who can withstand a little criticism, and don't require kid gloves.

I assumed he said Cousin's ranking was laughable because he had him on the opposite side of 11. Most people I know think he's terrible.

 

[Joe Bryant]

I've given the reasons for Cousins in these threads several times. After 8 weeks I gave up and called the ranking laughable. Didn't think it was a big deal. Joe did, so much so he had to lecture me two times about it as if I didn't hear him the first time. I won't say laughable again. It obviously hit a nerve.

Part of my job is helping keep a good forum.

And a big part of that is trying to let folks know what we think is good discussion.

Asking someone to not call a ranking "laughable" when it's QB11 and you think he should be QB7 is part of that. That's not "lecturing". That's trying to let folks know what we want to have here.

Hope you'll continue to be part of what we're doing here.

 

[Joe Bryant]

First, don't call rankings here laughable again please.

Joe, respectfully, IMO you are being heavy handed by weighing in to say not to call a ranking laughable. In the big picture, this is not significant crticism, and there is no indication that @travdogg is bothered by it. There was nothing uncivil about the discourse that warranted interceding. You have made multiple posts in the thread about it, when it otherwise would have been ignored by most everyone... you actually called more attention to it than it would have gotten otherwise. There is no problem here that warrants policing.

I'm sure the answer is going to be some derivative of: it's your board, this isn't what you stand for, you/we strive to be better here, yada yada. I generally agree with how you have managed the forums over the years, but there is no reason to go (IMO) over the top. My recommendation is just to lighten up a bit and save the policing for what actually needs policing. I expect my recommendation will be ignored because you don't agree and have a long history of being over the top about it, but there you have it.

Two cents, and would appreciate it if you don't suspend me over my opinion about it.

I don't know of anyone ever being suspended for an opinion. Thanks for the feedback.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Hi @jobarules

Would love to see a paragraph or so elaborating more on the QB7 ranking. Discussion is a great thing.

If they're posted somewhere else, could you paste here?

I think where to value Cousins is an important topic for lots of people as there seems to be a pretty wide range. Thanks.

 

[Joe Bryant]

I love this thread.

Glad to see you have finally come around on Kamara. Although he is still 4 spots too low for ROS

Kamara is a hot topic too. Would love to see discussion there.

 

[jobarules]

Hi @jobarules

Would love to see a paragraph or so elaborating more on the QB7 ranking. Discussion is a great thing.

If they're posted somewhere else, could you paste here?

I think where to value Cousins is an important topic for lots of people as there seems to be a pretty wide range. Thanks.

I posted my opinion in a few of travdogg's prior threads. The gist of it was:

Horrible running game
Bad defense
Tons of weapons in the passing game (JJ, Addison, TJ)
Cousins consistently having several seasons of 4000 yds-30 TDs under his belt
Players ranked ahead of him that were playing horribly (Lawrence who has still yet to show me hes a QB1, Fields who has been a disaster before 2 good weeks vs horrendous defenses and now hurt, and Burrow who's had the worst start of any QB1 in recent memory based on a debilitating calf injury)

This opinion was from weeks ago BEFORE JJ got hurt but with Addison stepping up and JJ due back soon I see no reason to downgrade Cousins anymore. Not only that, I already stated in THIS thread that he has JJ ranked 10th, Addison 19th, and TJ 4th so the math doesn't add up to him ranking Cousins 11th. Especially since he has Burrow ranked 7th with Chase 4th and Higgins 33rd or Lawrence ranked 8th with Ridley 21st, Kirk 30th, Engram 8th, and a MUCH better running game and defense than Cousins.

The math doesn't add up any way you slice it.

 

[zoonation]

I love this thread.

Glad to see you have finally come around on Kamara. Although he is still 4 spots too low for ROS

Kamara is a hot topic too. Would love to see discussion there.

#3 RB in PPG. He's very hot! And that is with no TD production. Williams should take some carries, but that oline can't run block, and he is JAG, so I don't think that ultimately hurts AK that much. With a modest regression in touches AK is still an RB1 ROS.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Horrible running game
Bad defense
Tons of weapons in the passing game (JJ, Addison, TJ)
Cousins consistently having several seasons of 4000 yds-30 TDs under his belt

Thanks. That's how we see it as well. We have him QB8 for Rest of Season.

For whatever reason, Cousins always seems underrated. I think it's he's not flashy and just gets production.

 

[Joe Bryant]

I assumed he said Cousin's ranking was laughable because he had him on the opposite side of 11. Most people I know think he's terrible.

Agreed. I see him ranked more like QB13 by our competitors for rest of season.

 

[zoonation]

Horrible running game
Bad defense
Tons of weapons in the passing game (JJ, Addison, TJ)
Cousins consistently having several seasons of 4000 yds-30 TDs under his belt

Thanks. That's how we see it as well. We have him QB8 for Rest of Season.

For whatever reason, Cousins always seems underrated. I think it's he's not flashy and just gets production.

I honestly don't understand it. You look at all the terrible passers in the NFL, or even the marginal ones (Dak, for example), and then you watch Kirk just fire missiles around the field under heavy pressure, often after processing his 2nd and 3rd reads lightning fast. The guy is a straight up baller.

Like I said in the SF game thread, the list of NFC QBs I'd rather have than Cousins starts and ends with Hurts.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Horrible running game
Bad defense
Tons of weapons in the passing game (JJ, Addison, TJ)
Cousins consistently having several seasons of 4000 yds-30 TDs under his belt

Thanks. That's how we see it as well. We have him QB8 for Rest of Season.

For whatever reason, Cousins always seems underrated. I think it's he's not flashy and just gets production.

I honestly don't understand it. You look at all the terrible passers in the NFL, or even the marginal ones (Dak, for example), and then you watch Kirk just fire missiles around the field under heavy pressure, often after processing his 2nd and 3rd reads lightning fast. The guy is a straight up baller.

Like I said in the SF game thread, the list of NFC QBs I'd rather have than Cousins starts and ends with Hurts.

I can see that. I'd put him as the #2 QB in the NFC. With Stafford a close #3.

 

[N Zone]

I would rather have Ray Rice over most the guys in WR tier 7

I assume you mean Rashee Rice. I'd rather have a pound of candy corn (gross) than Ray Rice. He's on the radar, if he ever sees decent snaps.

Pittman feels too low to me at 23. He's top 10 in targets and receptions, and top 15 in yards and fantasy scoring. His schedule down the stretch is pretty favorable too playing weak defenses most of the way; NO, NE, TB, Car. And then he gets Pitt and Atl weeks 15 and 16, most leagues semi finals and championship weeks. I'd probably have him 12-14, especially with how consistent he's been. Only one week scoring less than 10 points.

My concern is how much offense can Indy support. Pittman had 25 catches in the first 3 games, and 17 in the last 4. Meanwhile Downs has 18 catches during the last 4. It feels like a nebulous situation to me. Especially as I think Indy would prefer to be a run heavy team, and Taylor has been ramping up.

Another note, while I would agree Pittman has been pretty consistent in full PPR, he's been a lot less so outside of it. He has fewer yards than he likes of Nico Collins and George Pickens, despite playing 1 more game than those guys. I think Pittman is a low-end WR2, due to a lack of high-end upside. Also, do most leagues have their semis and championships in weeks 15 and 16? Every league I'm in switched to weeks 16 and 17 since the NFL added a game.

Guess it's just the leagues I'm in then. With teams proclivity to sit their starters at the end of the season, especially the playoff bound ones where most of the best fantasy players live, we forgo an extra reg season game to not have some fluky stuff happen in the playoffs. Not much worse than making it to the championship and then not being able to start Hill/Diggs/Chase etc. Other than having them get pulled after only playing a half I suppose. The only leagues I'm in that use week 17 have a two week championship, combining it with week 16. Again, just trying remove flukes/luck/randomness when possible.

There are 18 weeks in the NFL season. Are you saying your league(s) finish week 16 and then both week 17 and week 18 NFL schedules are meaningless to you?
I would think most leagues adjusted to only not play the final week of the season, week 18. I'm in one league but it's a 2 week championship over weeks 16 and 17. It was previously played weeks 15 and 16 back when the NFL season was 17 weeks. It seems teams have been playing their starters all game in the 2nd to last week of the season.

 

[Dickies]

Horrible running game
Bad defense
Tons of weapons in the passing game (JJ, Addison, TJ)
Cousins consistently having several seasons of 4000 yds-30 TDs under his belt

Thanks. That's how we see it as well. We have him QB8 for Rest of Season.

For whatever reason, Cousins always seems underrated. I think it's he's not flashy and just gets production.

I honestly don't understand it. You look at all the terrible passers in the NFL, or even the marginal ones (Dak, for example), and then you watch Kirk just fire missiles around the field under heavy pressure, often after processing his 2nd and 3rd reads lightning fast. The guy is a straight up baller.

Like I said in the SF game thread, the list of NFC QBs I'd rather have than Cousins starts and ends with Hurts.

I'm with you on this. I was watching games with my neighbors a couple weeks ago and they all think he's a bottom 10 QB in the league and I was trying to convince them he's top 10. In the end we just had to agree to disagree. He's always been a pretty solid QB, but gets absolutely no respect.

 

[N Zone]

I've given the reasons for Cousins in these threads several times. After 8 weeks I gave up and called the ranking laughable. Didn't think it was a big deal. Joe did, so much so he had to lecture me two times about it as if I didn't hear him the first time. I won't say laughable again. It obviously hit a nerve.

Part of my job is helping keep a good forum.

And a big part of that is trying to let folks know what we think is good discussion.

Asking someone to not call a ranking "laughable" when it's QB11 and you think he should be QB7 is part of that. That's not "lecturing". That's trying to let folks know what we want to have here.

Hope you'll continue to be part of what we're doing here.

Well according to the Waiver Wire Targets Heading into Week 8 thread, only morons play in leagues where Darrell Henderson Jr Rams RB was available.

 

[TheWinz]

Horrible running game
Bad defense
Tons of weapons in the passing game (JJ, Addison, TJ)
Cousins consistently having several seasons of 4000 yds-30 TDs under his belt

Thanks. That's how we see it as well. We have him QB8 for Rest of Season.

For whatever reason, Cousins always seems underrated. I think it's he's not flashy and just gets production.

I honestly don't understand it. You look at all the terrible passers in the NFL, or even the marginal ones (Dak, for example), and then you watch Kirk just fire missiles around the field under heavy pressure, often after processing his 2nd and 3rd reads lightning fast. The guy is a straight up baller.

Like I said in the SF game thread, the list of NFC QBs I'd rather have than Cousins starts and ends with Hurts.

I'm with you on this. I was watching games with my neighbors a couple weeks ago and they all think he's a bottom 10 QB in the league and I was trying to convince them he's top 10. In the end we just had to agree to disagree. He's always been a pretty solid QB, but gets absolutely no respect.

Believe it or not, he was a better FF QB with WAS than he has been with MIN. Since becoming a full-time starter in 2015:
2015 - WAS - QB9
2016 - WAS - QB5
2017 - WAS - QB5
2018 - MIN - QB11
2019 - MIN - QB16
2020 - MIN - QB11
2021 - MIN - QB10
2022 - MIN - QB8

Looking at the numbers, he rushed for 13 TD's in WAS from 2015 thru 2017. He only has 6 since joining the Vikings 6 years ago. It's hard for him to reach upper QB1 status with little to no rushing production.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Horrible running game
Bad defense
Tons of weapons in the passing game (JJ, Addison, TJ)
Cousins consistently having several seasons of 4000 yds-30 TDs under his belt

Thanks. That's how we see it as well. We have him QB8 for Rest of Season.

For whatever reason, Cousins always seems underrated. I think it's he's not flashy and just gets production.

I honestly don't understand it. You look at all the terrible passers in the NFL, or even the marginal ones (Dak, for example), and then you watch Kirk just fire missiles around the field under heavy pressure, often after processing his 2nd and 3rd reads lightning fast. The guy is a straight up baller.

Like I said in the SF game thread, the list of NFC QBs I'd rather have than Cousins starts and ends with Hurts.

I'm with you on this. I was watching games with my neighbors a couple weeks ago and they all think he's a bottom 10 QB in the league and I was trying to convince them he's top 10. In the end we just had to agree to disagree. He's always been a pretty solid QB, but gets absolutely no respect.

I think it's the dorkiness factor. I've long said (as others have too) Dak Prescott is Cousins with a better stylist. And I'd rather have Cousins as my guy. Flash and pop sell. Cousins doesn't have a lot of that.

 

[zoonation]

Horrible running game
Bad defense
Tons of weapons in the passing game (JJ, Addison, TJ)
Cousins consistently having several seasons of 4000 yds-30 TDs under his belt

Thanks. That's how we see it as well. We have him QB8 for Rest of Season.

For whatever reason, Cousins always seems underrated. I think it's he's not flashy and just gets production.

I honestly don't understand it. You look at all the terrible passers in the NFL, or even the marginal ones (Dak, for example), and then you watch Kirk just fire missiles around the field under heavy pressure, often after processing his 2nd and 3rd reads lightning fast. The guy is a straight up baller.

Like I said in the SF game thread, the list of NFC QBs I'd rather have than Cousins starts and ends with Hurts.

I'm with you on this. I was watching games with my neighbors a couple weeks ago and they all think he's a bottom 10 QB in the league and I was trying to convince them he's top 10. In the end we just had to agree to disagree. He's always been a pretty solid QB, but gets absolutely no respect.

With all due respect to your neighbours, anyone who thinks he is a bottom ten QB doesn’t know ball.

 

[zoonation]

Horrible running game
Bad defense
Tons of weapons in the passing game (JJ, Addison, TJ)
Cousins consistently having several seasons of 4000 yds-30 TDs under his belt

Thanks. That's how we see it as well. We have him QB8 for Rest of Season.

For whatever reason, Cousins always seems underrated. I think it's he's not flashy and just gets production.

I honestly don't understand it. You look at all the terrible passers in the NFL, or even the marginal ones (Dak, for example), and then you watch Kirk just fire missiles around the field under heavy pressure, often after processing his 2nd and 3rd reads lightning fast. The guy is a straight up baller.

Like I said in the SF game thread, the list of NFC QBs I'd rather have than Cousins starts and ends with Hurts.

I'm with you on this. I was watching games with my neighbors a couple weeks ago and they all think he's a bottom 10 QB in the league and I was trying to convince them he's top 10. In the end we just had to agree to disagree. He's always been a pretty solid QB, but gets absolutely no respect.

I think it's the dorkiness factor. I've long said (as others have too) Dak Prescott is Cousins with a better stylist. And I'd rather have Cousins as my guy. Flash and pop sell. Cousins doesn't have a lot of that.

I can see this. I don’t think Dak is close to Cousins as a QB though. If Dallas had Cousins they would be much more prolific on offense imo.

 

[travdogg]

Horrible running game
Bad defense
Tons of weapons in the passing game (JJ, Addison, TJ)
Cousins consistently having several seasons of 4000 yds-30 TDs under his belt

Thanks. That's how we see it as well. We have him QB8 for Rest of Season.

For whatever reason, Cousins always seems underrated. I think it's he's not flashy and just gets production.

I honestly don't understand it. You look at all the terrible passers in the NFL, or even the marginal ones (Dak, for example), and then you watch Kirk just fire missiles around the field under heavy pressure, often after processing his 2nd and 3rd reads lightning fast. The guy is a straight up baller.

Like I said in the SF game thread, the list of NFC QBs I'd rather have than Cousins starts and ends with Hurts.

I'm with you on this. I was watching games with my neighbors a couple weeks ago and they all think he's a bottom 10 QB in the league and I was trying to convince them he's top 10. In the end we just had to agree to disagree. He's always been a pretty solid QB, but gets absolutely no respect.

I think it's the dorkiness factor. I've long said (as others have too) Dak Prescott is Cousins with a better stylist. And I'd rather have Cousins as my guy. Flash and pop sell. Cousins doesn't have a lot of that.

I can see this. I don’t think Dak is close to Cousins as a QB though. If Dallas had Cousins they would be much more prolific on offense imo.

NFL wise, I'll call Cousins a B- and Prescott a C+.

 

[Dickies]

Horrible running game
Bad defense
Tons of weapons in the passing game (JJ, Addison, TJ)
Cousins consistently having several seasons of 4000 yds-30 TDs under his belt

Thanks. That's how we see it as well. We have him QB8 for Rest of Season.

For whatever reason, Cousins always seems underrated. I think it's he's not flashy and just gets production.

I honestly don't understand it. You look at all the terrible passers in the NFL, or even the marginal ones (Dak, for example), and then you watch Kirk just fire missiles around the field under heavy pressure, often after processing his 2nd and 3rd reads lightning fast. The guy is a straight up baller.

Like I said in the SF game thread, the list of NFC QBs I'd rather have than Cousins starts and ends with Hurts.

I'm with you on this. I was watching games with my neighbors a couple weeks ago and they all think he's a bottom 10 QB in the league and I was trying to convince them he's top 10. In the end we just had to agree to disagree. He's always been a pretty solid QB, but gets absolutely no respect.

With all due respect to your neighbours, anyone who thinks he is a bottom ten QB doesn’t know ball.

I told them the same thing, but I used less flattering language.

 

[Joe Bryant]

It's just one opinion but for real QB ranking, NFL.com feature has Cousins QB6. https://www.nfl.com/news/nfl-qb-index-week-8-2023-nfl-season

 

[dschuler]

Horrible running game
Bad defense
Tons of weapons in the passing game (JJ, Addison, TJ)
Cousins consistently having several seasons of 4000 yds-30 TDs under his belt

Thanks. That's how we see it as well. We have him QB8 for Rest of Season.

For whatever reason, Cousins always seems underrated. I think it's he's not flashy and just gets production.

I honestly don't understand it. You look at all the terrible passers in the NFL, or even the marginal ones (Dak, for example), and then you watch Kirk just fire missiles around the field under heavy pressure, often after processing his 2nd and 3rd reads lightning fast. The guy is a straight up baller.

Like I said in the SF game thread, the list of NFC QBs I'd rather have than Cousins starts and ends with Hurts.

I can see that. I'd put him as the #2 QB in the NFC. With Stafford a close #3.

The disparity between AFC and NFC QBs is just crazy. If Cousins went to the AFC, he’s a borderline bottom half AFC QB (definitely below Mahomes, Lawrence, Burrow, Allen, Jackson, Rodgers, Herbert and you could argue Tua Stroud) In the NFC, he’s #2.

 

[jobarules]

Horrible running game
Bad defense
Tons of weapons in the passing game (JJ, Addison, TJ)
Cousins consistently having several seasons of 4000 yds-30 TDs under his belt

Thanks. That's how we see it as well. We have him QB8 for Rest of Season.

For whatever reason, Cousins always seems underrated. I think it's he's not flashy and just gets production.

I honestly don't understand it. You look at all the terrible passers in the NFL, or even the marginal ones (Dak, for example), and then you watch Kirk just fire missiles around the field under heavy pressure, often after processing his 2nd and 3rd reads lightning fast. The guy is a straight up baller.

Like I said in the SF game thread, the list of NFC QBs I'd rather have than Cousins starts and ends with Hurts.

I can see that. I'd put him as the #2 QB in the NFC. With Stafford a close #3.

The disparity between AFC and NFC QBs is just crazy. If Cousins went to the AFC, he’s a borderline bottom half AFC QB (definitely below Mahomes, Lawrence, Burrow, Allen, Jackson, Rodgers, Herbert and you could argue Tua Stroud) In the NFC, he’s #2.

Why would he be below Lawrence or 40 year old Rodgers? The other guys I'll give ya but Herbert is debatable.

 

[dschuler]

Horrible running game
Bad defense
Tons of weapons in the passing game (JJ, Addison, TJ)
Cousins consistently having several seasons of 4000 yds-30 TDs under his belt

Thanks. That's how we see it as well. We have him QB8 for Rest of Season.

For whatever reason, Cousins always seems underrated. I think it's he's not flashy and just gets production.

I honestly don't understand it. You look at all the terrible passers in the NFL, or even the marginal ones (Dak, for example), and then you watch Kirk just fire missiles around the field under heavy pressure, often after processing his 2nd and 3rd reads lightning fast. The guy is a straight up baller.

Like I said in the SF game thread, the list of NFC QBs I'd rather have than Cousins starts and ends with Hurts.

I can see that. I'd put him as the #2 QB in the NFC. With Stafford a close #3.

The disparity between AFC and NFC QBs is just crazy. If Cousins went to the AFC, he’s a borderline bottom half AFC QB (definitely below Mahomes, Lawrence, Burrow, Allen, Jackson, Rodgers, Herbert and you could argue Tua Stroud) In the NFC, he’s #2.

Why would he be below Lawrence or 40 year old Rodgers? The other guys I'll give ya but Herbert is debatable.

Yes

 

[jobarules]

Horrible running game
Bad defense
Tons of weapons in the passing game (JJ, Addison, TJ)
Cousins consistently having several seasons of 4000 yds-30 TDs under his belt

Thanks. That's how we see it as well. We have him QB8 for Rest of Season.

For whatever reason, Cousins always seems underrated. I think it's he's not flashy and just gets production.

I honestly don't understand it. You look at all the terrible passers in the NFL, or even the marginal ones (Dak, for example), and then you watch Kirk just fire missiles around the field under heavy pressure, often after processing his 2nd and 3rd reads lightning fast. The guy is a straight up baller.

Like I said in the SF game thread, the list of NFC QBs I'd rather have than Cousins starts and ends with Hurts.

I can see that. I'd put him as the #2 QB in the NFC. With Stafford a close #3.

The disparity between AFC and NFC QBs is just crazy. If Cousins went to the AFC, he’s a borderline bottom half AFC QB (definitely below Mahomes, Lawrence, Burrow, Allen, Jackson, Rodgers, Herbert and you could argue Tua Stroud) In the NFC, he’s #2.

Why would he be below Lawrence or 40 year old Rodgers? The other guys I'll give ya but Herbert is debatable.

Yes

Yes, what? There's no shot Lawrence is better than Cousins RIGHT NOW

 

[jobarules]

Cousins has a higher QB Rating, higher YPA, higher Comp%, twice as many TDs. How on Earth is Lawrence better?

 

[dschuler]

Cousins has a higher QB Rating, higher YPA, higher Comp%, twice as many TDs. How on Earth is Lawrence better?

All those stats and yet the Jaguars have still outscored the Vikings by 22 points this year and sit comfortably in first place. The Jaguars are 12-5 in their last 17 games and 3 of those losses are against the Chiefs. He’s a Ridley bad game and a couple close TD catches away from being undefeated. Cousins had the game of his life last week against the Niners, but I’ve seen over a decade of what Kirk is and it’s not on the same level as Lawrence. Not now, not ever.

 

[zoonation]

Horrible running game
Bad defense
Tons of weapons in the passing game (JJ, Addison, TJ)
Cousins consistently having several seasons of 4000 yds-30 TDs under his belt

Thanks. That's how we see it as well. We have him QB8 for Rest of Season.

For whatever reason, Cousins always seems underrated. I think it's he's not flashy and just gets production.

I honestly don't understand it. You look at all the terrible passers in the NFL, or even the marginal ones (Dak, for example), and then you watch Kirk just fire missiles around the field under heavy pressure, often after processing his 2nd and 3rd reads lightning fast. The guy is a straight up baller.

Like I said in the SF game thread, the list of NFC QBs I'd rather have than Cousins starts and ends with Hurts.

I can see that. I'd put him as the #2 QB in the NFC. With Stafford a close #3.

The disparity between AFC and NFC QBs is just crazy. If Cousins went to the AFC, he’s a borderline bottom half AFC QB (definitely below Mahomes, Lawrence, Burrow, Allen, Jackson, Rodgers, Herbert and you could argue Tua Stroud) In the NFC, he’s #2.

Disagree on Lawrence, Herbert, Tua and (current) Rodgers. Stroud? Not even close.

 

[zoonation]

Cousins has a higher QB Rating, higher YPA, higher Comp%, twice as many TDs. How on Earth is Lawrence better?

All those stats and yet the Jaguars have still outscored the Vikings by 22 points this year and sit comfortably in first place. The Jaguars are 12-5 in their last 17 games and 3 of those losses are against the Chiefs. He’s a Ridley bad game and a couple close TD catches away from being undefeated. Cousins had the game of his life last week against the Niners, but I’ve seen over a decade of what Kirk is and it’s not on the same level as Lawrence. Not now, not ever.

The Jags have a great running game. Cousins has no running game and a terrible oline.

He is also 16-8 in the last year and a half. Every QB metric out there says Cousins is better than Lawrence, and has been since Lawrence came in the league.

Who would I want going forward? Lawrence, obviously, as I think he is ascending.

 

[Joe Bryant]

The adoration for Kirk Cousins is an unexpected and joyful surprise for me.

 

[Biabreakable]

Cousins has a higher QB Rating, higher YPA, higher Comp%, twice as many TDs. How on Earth is Lawrence better?

All those stats and yet the Jaguars have still outscored the Vikings by 22 points this year and sit comfortably in first place. The Jaguars are 12-5 in their last 17 games and 3 of those losses are against the Chiefs. He’s a Ridley bad game and a couple close TD catches away from being undefeated. Cousins had the game of his life last week against the Niners, but I’ve seen over a decade of what Kirk is and it’s not on the same level as Lawrence. Not now, not ever.

The Jags have a great running game. Cousins has no running game and a terrible oline.

While it's muscle memory by now to consider the Vikings a bad offensive line, and they have had some bad plays that at least contributed to turnovers, their offensive line does seem to keep improving.

The 49ers got 0 sacks in the last game although they did get 6 QB hits according to ESPN.

The tackles Darrisaw and ONeil are good players, it's more the inside positions where there have been problems.

However I was very very surprised to learn that Center Garrett Bradbury has given up ZERO pressures so far this season. Maybe, just maybe he is playing good now.

 

[travdogg]

The Vikings have the best OL in the NFL right now. Its not out of nowhere either, its been trending toward that since O'Connell showed up. We'll see if it lasts, Philly is probably better when fully healthy (which they aren't right now) but its an elite OL, and really damning of Mattison that he's not more effective. An average RB should be hitting 4.5+ YPC on this team.

I would argue Kirk Cousins is the best QB in the NFC from an NFL standpoint. His lower fantasy rank is from a complete lack of rushing, and his #1 WR (arguably the best WR in the NFL, top-3 at worst) being injured. Having said that, the AFC is much better at QB. Mahomes, Allen, Lamar, Burrow are all clearly much better players. After that, I think there is a solid argument for Cousins as QB5, alongside a guy like Herbert, and perhaps too boldly, but I think CJ Stroud isn't far from joining them.

I do think looking at numbers when determining NFL value can be somewhat misleading. For example, watching games, there isn't a QB who has been making better throws than Matthew Stafford this season, but his TD count is low, because his team is maybe the most run heavy team in the NFL inside the 10. That also applies to Trevor Lawrence a bit. Conversely, Cousins has benefitted a ton from his team being extremely pass heavy inside the 10. I'm not arguing Stafford over Cousins, but I am arguing that TD/INT ratio is a very flawed stat, and its one that influences passer rating heavily.

Anyway, anybody calling Cousins a bottom-10 NFL QB, hasn't been paying attention or hasn't watched all 32 teams. If Cousins was the QB for the 49ers, Falcons, or Jets, any of those teams would be undefeated right now in my opinion. My critiques of Cousins have been exclusively fantasy wise, where he's very inconsistent week to week (though consistent year to year) this year alone, Cousins has 3 good games, 2 ok games, and 2 bad games, which is identical to Jared Goff. Compared to someone like Herbert who had 4 good games, an ok game, and then a bad game last week.

As an aside, I'd argue the best QB (player really) NFL wise is Josh Allen. I don't think there is a single guy who does more for his team, and if he was replaced with even an above average starter, that's a below .500 team. I think Andy Reid props up Mahomes a little bit (not a knock just a fact, Reid is probably top-10 all time, and was consistently in the playoffs with Alex Smith) whereas I think McDermott is ok, and mostly just stays out of the way.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Real NFL QB ranking thread here https://forums.footballguys.com/threads/top-10-real-nfl-qbs-for-rest-of-this-year.810906/

 

[stinkbait]

I'd switch Breece Hall and Achane. Are you thinking Achane comes back and picks up right where he left off before he got hurt?

 

[travdogg]

I'd switch Breece Hall and Achane. Are you thinking Achane comes back and picks up right where he left off before he got hurt?

I don't really see any reason why he wouldn't. He was starting to distance himself from Mostert when he went down, I think Achane has legit top-3 upside down the stretch.

 

[CanaBuc]

Rookie RB after an I jury where the other back has performed well has me worried.

Think Achane is a sell high.

 

[Pip's Invitation]

It's just one opinion but for real QB ranking, NFL.com feature has Cousins QB6. https://www.nfl.com/news/nfl-qb-index-week-8-2023-nfl-season

As it so happens, he's QB6 in PPG in my 6-point pass TD leagues. He, Lamar (QB5) and Tua (QB7) are within less than 0.2 of each other.

 

[dschuler]

Real NFL QB ranking thread here https://forums.footballguys.com/threads/top-10-real-nfl-qbs-for-rest-of-this-year.810906/

So even in this ranking Cousins is a borderline bottom half AFC QB not including Rodgers?

 

[Dickies]

I guess it is now safe to call Cousins at #11 ROS laughable.