He knows how to use them to benefit his NFL team. Sometimes a RBBC approach works for the NFL, just not your fantasty squad.
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Travis Henry. Marijuana. Suspension? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter BigSteelThrill
- Start date
Loan Sharks
Not a Wolf
Uh, was your guy Henry? That could be problematic.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Yes, the Broncos could go in one of many directions, but the fact remains that Young has looked great. That I do know.
Loan Sharks
Not a Wolf
Selvin Young 15 138 9.2 40 0Cecil Sapp 6 25 4.2 12 1Sure he has, but I don't think 15 runs in relief after a defense has been pounded by the leagues leading rusher makes this a Selvin slam dunk. Sapp has put up a very good ypc as a fullback and in the preseason Sapp was played ahead of Young quite a bit. Of course, Young has the inside track, but to discount the possibility of Sapp being the man may be unwise. They may give Selvin a shot and if he isnt great then I can totally see them moving Sapp to starter with Young coming in for long run potential. That would be the best for the Broncos, or at least the closest to what they are currently doing now.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
That I can agree with. Did I mention that I also have Sap......, nevermind, lol
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Sure he has, but I don't think 15 runs in relief after a defense has been pounded by the leagues leading rusher makes this a Selvin slam dunk. Sapp has put up a very good ypc as a fullback and in the preseason Sapp was played ahead of Young quite a bit.
This is a wrong statement. In the last game vs. Indy Young got carries in the 1st quarter. Young looked good in this game and was already named the #2 RB in Denver.
This is a wrong statement. In the last game vs. Indy Young got carries in the 1st quarter. Young looked good in this game and was already named the #2 RB in Denver.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Use the quote and /quote with brackets around his post and it will look better. By the way, I agree with you.
Loan Sharks
Not a Wolf
Ok guys, I'm sold. Selvin Young had 3 carries in the first half of the 4th game after Henry limped off the field. That there is some concrete proof.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Didn't he have 8 for 81 for the entire game? Didn't he have a 40 yd run against the Bills? I'm pretty sure he's looked good so far and will have every chance to succeed once Henry is out of the way. Yes, if he fails, then Shanahan WILL look elsewhere, but you have to admit that he will start with Young.
Loan Sharks
Not a Wolf
You mean like I did here and you agreed with me? I have already acknowledged that Young has the inside track and will be given a shot, but for some reason you refuse to acknowledge that 15 carries in relief is not a large enough sample size to think that there is any chance that one of the other guys on the roster will be the starter in a couple of weeks.Parcells was speaking on ESPN radio and he thinks that Shanahan will probably use Sapp as the main running back ala Mike Anderson and perhaps move one of their 4 tight ends to fullback. He also said that he would expect Bell to contribute, it was a discussion between Mort and Parcells and neither one mentioned Young.
Parcell's knows as much as we do about what Shanahan will do.
While I am not going to say he knows what Shanahan will do, but I think he does know more than many message board posters who own Selvin Young in 16 leagues. Anyway I thought I would throw that out there, I thought it was interesting that a pretty good NFL coach would think Sapp ran pretty well and that the Broncos had extra tight ends.
If that were the case, then why wasn't Sapp the main RB when Henry got hurt? Did Parcells watch Young run for 81 yds on 10 carries? Did he also watch Young rip a 40 yd run against the Bills? Hey, I have Sap.....oops, I'm not supposed to say that...., but if anyone with eyes have been watching, it is clear that Young looks pretty good.
Why isn't Sapp listed as the main back up? If Parcells is right then it may have been a case of Shanny wanting to get his two best backs on the field at the same time. Also there is that pesky Mike Anderson precedence that shows shanny has done this before.
Also Young may have some other issues like pass protection or endurance that the staff may not want to grind him now and keep a similiar work distribution wil Young pitching relief.
The fact that Young is listed as the backup right now really doesn't mean anything as it looks like the Broncos will have a few weeks to get their game plan together. It could be any of the guys on the roster, I was just posting that Parcells thought the Broncos had a TE that could fill the Fullback role so it may give Sapp the opp to move to tailback if needed if that is the way the Broncos want to go.
Yes, the Broncos could go in one of many directions, but the fact remains that Young has looked great. That I do know.
Selvin Young 15 138 9.2 40 0
Cecil Sapp 6 25 4.2 12 1
Sure he has, but I don't think 15 runs in relief after a defense has been pounded by the leagues leading rusher makes this a Selvin slam dunk. Sapp has put up a very good ypc as a fullback and in the preseason Sapp was played ahead of Young quite a bit.
Of course, Young has the inside track, but to discount the possibility of Sapp being the man may be unwise.
They may give Selvin a shot and if he isnt great then I can totally see them moving Sapp to starter with Young coming in for long run potential. That would be the best for the Broncos, or at least the closest to what they are currently doing now.
That I can agree with. Did I mention that I also have Sap......, nevermind, lol
Sure he has, but I don't think 15 runs in relief after a defense has been pounded by the leagues leading rusher makes this a Selvin slam dunk. Sapp has put up a very good ypc as a fullback and in the preseason Sapp was played ahead of Young quite a bit.
Ok guys, I'm sold. Selvin Young had 3 carries in the first half of the 4th game after Henry limped off the field.
Didn't he have 8 for 81 for the entire game? Didn't he have a 40 yd run against the Bills? I'm pretty sure he's looked good so far and will have every chance to succeed once Henry is out of the way. Yes, if he fails, then Shanahan WILL look elsewhere, but you have to admit that he will start with Young.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Consider it acknowledged now, and yes, if he fails others will get a shot. There, is that OK? First Young will get his shot and he just might do OK with it.You mean like I did here and you agreed with me? I have already acknowledged that Young has the inside track and will be given a shot, but for some reason you refuse to acknowledge that 15 carries in relief is not a large enough sample size to think that there is any chance that one of the other guys on the roster will be the starter in a couple of weeks.Parcells was speaking on ESPN radio and he thinks that Shanahan will probably use Sapp as the main running back ala Mike Anderson and perhaps move one of their 4 tight ends to fullback. He also said that he would expect Bell to contribute, it was a discussion between Mort and Parcells and neither one mentioned Young.
Parcell's knows as much as we do about what Shanahan will do.
While I am not going to say he knows what Shanahan will do, but I think he does know more than many message board posters who own Selvin Young in 16 leagues. Anyway I thought I would throw that out there, I thought it was interesting that a pretty good NFL coach would think Sapp ran pretty well and that the Broncos had extra tight ends.
If that were the case, then why wasn't Sapp the main RB when Henry got hurt? Did Parcells watch Young run for 81 yds on 10 carries? Did he also watch Young rip a 40 yd run against the Bills? Hey, I have Sap.....oops, I'm not supposed to say that...., but if anyone with eyes have been watching, it is clear that Young looks pretty good.
Why isn't Sapp listed as the main back up? If Parcells is right then it may have been a case of Shanny wanting to get his two best backs on the field at the same time. Also there is that pesky Mike Anderson precedence that shows shanny has done this before.
Also Young may have some other issues like pass protection or endurance that the staff may not want to grind him now and keep a similiar work distribution wil Young pitching relief.
The fact that Young is listed as the backup right now really doesn't mean anything as it looks like the Broncos will have a few weeks to get their game plan together. It could be any of the guys on the roster, I was just posting that Parcells thought the Broncos had a TE that could fill the Fullback role so it may give Sapp the opp to move to tailback if needed if that is the way the Broncos want to go.
Yes, the Broncos could go in one of many directions, but the fact remains that Young has looked great. That I do know.
Selvin Young 15 138 9.2 40 0
Cecil Sapp 6 25 4.2 12 1
Sure he has, but I don't think 15 runs in relief after a defense has been pounded by the leagues leading rusher makes this a Selvin slam dunk. Sapp has put up a very good ypc as a fullback and in the preseason Sapp was played ahead of Young quite a bit.
Of course, Young has the inside track, but to discount the possibility of Sapp being the man may be unwise.
They may give Selvin a shot and if he isnt great then I can totally see them moving Sapp to starter with Young coming in for long run potential. That would be the best for the Broncos, or at least the closest to what they are currently doing now.
That I can agree with. Did I mention that I also have Sap......, nevermind, lol
Sure he has, but I don't think 15 runs in relief after a defense has been pounded by the leagues leading rusher makes this a Selvin slam dunk. Sapp has put up a very good ypc as a fullback and in the preseason Sapp was played ahead of Young quite a bit.
Ok guys, I'm sold. Selvin Young had 3 carries in the first half of the 4th game after Henry limped off the field.
Didn't he have 8 for 81 for the entire game? Didn't he have a 40 yd run against the Bills? I'm pretty sure he's looked good so far and will have every chance to succeed once Henry is out of the way. Yes, if he fails, then Shanahan WILL look elsewhere, but you have to admit that he will start with Young.
Loan Sharks
Not a Wolf
Fair enough, my guess barring a RBBC as the most probable, the chances of anyone securing full time starter numbers are about Young 65%, Sapp 25%, Bell %7.5, Hall 2.5%.Consider it acknowledged now, and yes, if he fails others will get a shot. There, is that OK? First Young will get his shot and he just might do OK with it.You mean like I did here and you agreed with me? I have already acknowledged that Young has the inside track and will be given a shot, but for some reason you refuse to acknowledge that 15 carries in relief is not a large enough sample size to think that there is any chance that one of the other guys on the roster will be the starter in a couple of weeks.Parcells was speaking on ESPN radio and he thinks that Shanahan will probably use Sapp as the main running back ala Mike Anderson and perhaps move one of their 4 tight ends to fullback. He also said that he would expect Bell to contribute, it was a discussion between Mort and Parcells and neither one mentioned Young.
Parcell's knows as much as we do about what Shanahan will do.
While I am not going to say he knows what Shanahan will do, but I think he does know more than many message board posters who own Selvin Young in 16 leagues. Anyway I thought I would throw that out there, I thought it was interesting that a pretty good NFL coach would think Sapp ran pretty well and that the Broncos had extra tight ends.
If that were the case, then why wasn't Sapp the main RB when Henry got hurt? Did Parcells watch Young run for 81 yds on 10 carries? Did he also watch Young rip a 40 yd run against the Bills? Hey, I have Sap.....oops, I'm not supposed to say that...., but if anyone with eyes have been watching, it is clear that Young looks pretty good.
Why isn't Sapp listed as the main back up? If Parcells is right then it may have been a case of Shanny wanting to get his two best backs on the field at the same time. Also there is that pesky Mike Anderson precedence that shows shanny has done this before.
Also Young may have some other issues like pass protection or endurance that the staff may not want to grind him now and keep a similiar work distribution wil Young pitching relief.
The fact that Young is listed as the backup right now really doesn't mean anything as it looks like the Broncos will have a few weeks to get their game plan together. It could be any of the guys on the roster, I was just posting that Parcells thought the Broncos had a TE that could fill the Fullback role so it may give Sapp the opp to move to tailback if needed if that is the way the Broncos want to go.
Yes, the Broncos could go in one of many directions, but the fact remains that Young has looked great. That I do know.
Selvin Young 15 138 9.2 40 0
Cecil Sapp 6 25 4.2 12 1
Sure he has, but I don't think 15 runs in relief after a defense has been pounded by the leagues leading rusher makes this a Selvin slam dunk. Sapp has put up a very good ypc as a fullback and in the preseason Sapp was played ahead of Young quite a bit.
Of course, Young has the inside track, but to discount the possibility of Sapp being the man may be unwise.
They may give Selvin a shot and if he isnt great then I can totally see them moving Sapp to starter with Young coming in for long run potential. That would be the best for the Broncos, or at least the closest to what they are currently doing now.
That I can agree with. Did I mention that I also have Sap......, nevermind, lol
Sure he has, but I don't think 15 runs in relief after a defense has been pounded by the leagues leading rusher makes this a Selvin slam dunk. Sapp has put up a very good ypc as a fullback and in the preseason Sapp was played ahead of Young quite a bit.
Ok guys, I'm sold. Selvin Young had 3 carries in the first half of the 4th game after Henry limped off the field.
Didn't he have 8 for 81 for the entire game? Didn't he have a 40 yd run against the Bills? I'm pretty sure he's looked good so far and will have every chance to succeed once Henry is out of the way. Yes, if he fails, then Shanahan WILL look elsewhere, but you have to admit that he will start with Young.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Actually, Sapp's percentage may be just a tad higher. I project it 60% Young, 28% Sapp, 10% Bell, 1% Hall, and 1% other.Fair enough, my guess barring a RBBC as the most probable, the chances of anyone securing full time starter numbers are about Young 65%, Sapp 25%, Bell %7.5, Hall 2.5%.Consider it acknowledged now, and yes, if he fails others will get a shot. There, is that OK? First Young will get his shot and he just might do OK with it.You mean like I did here and you agreed with me? I have already acknowledged that Young has the inside track and will be given a shot, but for some reason you refuse to acknowledge that 15 carries in relief is not a large enough sample size to think that there is any chance that one of the other guys on the roster will be the starter in a couple of weeks.Parcells was speaking on ESPN radio and he thinks that Shanahan will probably use Sapp as the main running back ala Mike Anderson and perhaps move one of their 4 tight ends to fullback. He also said that he would expect Bell to contribute, it was a discussion between Mort and Parcells and neither one mentioned Young.
Parcell's knows as much as we do about what Shanahan will do.
While I am not going to say he knows what Shanahan will do, but I think he does know more than many message board posters who own Selvin Young in 16 leagues. Anyway I thought I would throw that out there, I thought it was interesting that a pretty good NFL coach would think Sapp ran pretty well and that the Broncos had extra tight ends.
If that were the case, then why wasn't Sapp the main RB when Henry got hurt? Did Parcells watch Young run for 81 yds on 10 carries? Did he also watch Young rip a 40 yd run against the Bills? Hey, I have Sap.....oops, I'm not supposed to say that...., but if anyone with eyes have been watching, it is clear that Young looks pretty good.
Why isn't Sapp listed as the main back up? If Parcells is right then it may have been a case of Shanny wanting to get his two best backs on the field at the same time. Also there is that pesky Mike Anderson precedence that shows shanny has done this before.
Also Young may have some other issues like pass protection or endurance that the staff may not want to grind him now and keep a similiar work distribution wil Young pitching relief.
The fact that Young is listed as the backup right now really doesn't mean anything as it looks like the Broncos will have a few weeks to get their game plan together. It could be any of the guys on the roster, I was just posting that Parcells thought the Broncos had a TE that could fill the Fullback role so it may give Sapp the opp to move to tailback if needed if that is the way the Broncos want to go.
Yes, the Broncos could go in one of many directions, but the fact remains that Young has looked great. That I do know.
Selvin Young 15 138 9.2 40 0
Cecil Sapp 6 25 4.2 12 1
Sure he has, but I don't think 15 runs in relief after a defense has been pounded by the leagues leading rusher makes this a Selvin slam dunk. Sapp has put up a very good ypc as a fullback and in the preseason Sapp was played ahead of Young quite a bit.
Of course, Young has the inside track, but to discount the possibility of Sapp being the man may be unwise.
They may give Selvin a shot and if he isnt great then I can totally see them moving Sapp to starter with Young coming in for long run potential. That would be the best for the Broncos, or at least the closest to what they are currently doing now.
That I can agree with. Did I mention that I also have Sap......, nevermind, lol
Sure he has, but I don't think 15 runs in relief after a defense has been pounded by the leagues leading rusher makes this a Selvin slam dunk. Sapp has put up a very good ypc as a fullback and in the preseason Sapp was played ahead of Young quite a bit.
Ok guys, I'm sold. Selvin Young had 3 carries in the first half of the 4th game after Henry limped off the field.
Didn't he have 8 for 81 for the entire game? Didn't he have a 40 yd run against the Bills? I'm pretty sure he's looked good so far and will have every chance to succeed once Henry is out of the way. Yes, if he fails, then Shanahan WILL look elsewhere, but you have to admit that he will start with Young.
fsufan
Footballguy
one of the guys on NFL radio, Pat something, thinks they will look at singing Dillon or trading for a RB.no one knowsYou mean like I did here and you agreed with me? I have already acknowledged that Young has the inside track and will be given a shot, but for some reason you refuse to acknowledge that 15 carries in relief is not a large enough sample size to think that there is any chance that one of the other guys on the roster will be the starter in a couple of weeks.Parcells was speaking on ESPN radio and he thinks that Shanahan will probably use Sapp as the main running back ala Mike Anderson and perhaps move one of their 4 tight ends to fullback. He also said that he would expect Bell to contribute, it was a discussion between Mort and Parcells and neither one mentioned Young.
Parcell's knows as much as we do about what Shanahan will do.
While I am not going to say he knows what Shanahan will do, but I think he does know more than many message board posters who own Selvin Young in 16 leagues. Anyway I thought I would throw that out there, I thought it was interesting that a pretty good NFL coach would think Sapp ran pretty well and that the Broncos had extra tight ends.
If that were the case, then why wasn't Sapp the main RB when Henry got hurt? Did Parcells watch Young run for 81 yds on 10 carries? Did he also watch Young rip a 40 yd run against the Bills? Hey, I have Sap.....oops, I'm not supposed to say that...., but if anyone with eyes have been watching, it is clear that Young looks pretty good.
Why isn't Sapp listed as the main back up? If Parcells is right then it may have been a case of Shanny wanting to get his two best backs on the field at the same time. Also there is that pesky Mike Anderson precedence that shows shanny has done this before.
Also Young may have some other issues like pass protection or endurance that the staff may not want to grind him now and keep a similiar work distribution wil Young pitching relief.
The fact that Young is listed as the backup right now really doesn't mean anything as it looks like the Broncos will have a few weeks to get their game plan together. It could be any of the guys on the roster, I was just posting that Parcells thought the Broncos had a TE that could fill the Fullback role so it may give Sapp the opp to move to tailback if needed if that is the way the Broncos want to go.
Yes, the Broncos could go in one of many directions, but the fact remains that Young has looked great. That I do know.
Selvin Young 15 138 9.2 40 0
Cecil Sapp 6 25 4.2 12 1
Sure he has, but I don't think 15 runs in relief after a defense has been pounded by the leagues leading rusher makes this a Selvin slam dunk. Sapp has put up a very good ypc as a fullback and in the preseason Sapp was played ahead of Young quite a bit.
Of course, Young has the inside track, but to discount the possibility of Sapp being the man may be unwise.
They may give Selvin a shot and if he isnt great then I can totally see them moving Sapp to starter with Young coming in for long run potential. That would be the best for the Broncos, or at least the closest to what they are currently doing now.
That I can agree with. Did I mention that I also have Sap......, nevermind, lol
Sure he has, but I don't think 15 runs in relief after a defense has been pounded by the leagues leading rusher makes this a Selvin slam dunk. Sapp has put up a very good ypc as a fullback and in the preseason Sapp was played ahead of Young quite a bit.
Ok guys, I'm sold. Selvin Young had 3 carries in the first half of the 4th game after Henry limped off the field.
Didn't he have 8 for 81 for the entire game? Didn't he have a 40 yd run against the Bills? I'm pretty sure he's looked good so far and will have every chance to succeed once Henry is out of the way. Yes, if he fails, then Shanahan WILL look elsewhere, but you have to admit that he will start with Young.
Green Apple Splatter
Footballguy
I think this is some pretty good stuff by most posters. Yes, some is redundant and obvious, but for the most part this is an informative thread. I can say that I've benefited from this thread from a lot of posters.
Marc Levin
Hangs out with Oscar Zeta Acosta
I just read the last two pages and I agree with whoever was wondering if there was a way to report an entire thread.
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
I think this is some pretty good stuff by most posters.
Bob Sacamano
Footballguy
:reported:
moleculo
Footballguy
I agree with Evilhomer3k. Young may not see an increased role, even with Henry being out.I think it is very unlikely that anyone will replace Henry completely. It will become RBBC, and it will be very difficult to discern a true #1. The RBBC will consist of Young, Sapp and/or MBell. Don't discount MBell - he has just as good of a chance (if not better) than anyone else currently on the roster, simply because he was there last year and did reasonably well - goal line, in particular.
Thinking about it more, I expect Sapp to stay @ FB, and move MBell back to TB, and let Young play the role of 2006 TBell and MBell play the same role he played last year.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Why do I always hear RBBC whenever the #1 goes down? The Shark Pool is full of that, without substance. Yes, Shanahan could decide on another RB other than Young, but do you guys have to say RBBC every time a starter goes down?
The Jerk
Footballguy
Some mysterious and provocative quotes from an Associated Press article located on nfl.com Broncos' Henry optimistic he will play Sunday:
Mike Shanahan:
Mike Shanahan:
Javon Walker:
moleculo
Footballguy
Here's why I see RBBC:1. no well established back-up. Young has what - 15 career rushing attempts? What would lead anyone to believe he is capable of handling a full time duty? It's not like this is Betts/Portis here.
2. Demonstrated history of RBBC - see 2004 and 2005 Broncos. Shanahan made a strong move away from RBBC with the Henry acquisition this past offseason; but necessity may force him back to what he has done previously.
3. Presence of MBell. Here's what we know about MBell:
A) He was a decent short yardage runner last season. Per football outsiders, MBell ranked 11th in the league in terms of success rate last year. 8 TD's was also pretty decent.
B) The weak part of his game was pass blocking. In tht he was moved to FB, one would have to assume his blocking has improved.
C) We haven't seen anything from Bell yet - concussions will do that to you. But, he should be clearing up and seeing the field shortly.
4. There is precedence for Shanahan moving players from RB to FB, and then moving them back mid-season. it happened to MAnderson and RDroughns.
Yes, Young has made some nice plays, no doubt. If his pass blocking is up to snuff (I haven't seen enough on him to comment on this at this point) and he can handle the short yardage stuff, he might get a chance. Until that all happens, I think his carries will be limited and he will be splitting time.
moleculo
Footballguy
What if Henry wins his case?
The Jerk
Footballguy
Maybe that's all he's saying, but it was a little bit of a tease, like there is something significant we are not being told. Sure, Walker's just an athlete and a teammate who is sticking by his buddy, but the quote has a matter of fact clarity to it that I was not suspecting. Maybe it's just me.You're a Bronco guy, right? I'm looking for a little local information here.
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moleculo
Footballguy
I think we all are...Here's the thing: in the NFL drug monitoring program henry is in, he can be randomly tested up to 10x per month - up to every three days. That seems to me like it would be a constant reminder that he can't be doin' that stuff, plus it would be really hard to hide it. It's difficult for me to comprehend how someone can allow them self to be put in the situation Henry is in now (of course, with the 9 kids, he may not be the most rational person...).
Was the test he failed a league administered test? Or was this test part of the 9 kid - child support thing? Would it matter?
The Jerk
Footballguy
I started out interested in following this story for the fantasy ramifications, as I'm sure most others did.Now I'm fascinated like it's one of those mysteries you see on network newsmagazines.For a sports nut, this is my soap opera: As the Bong Turns
Niaboc
Footballguy
broncos
Suspension would lead to shakeup
Shanahan ready for sideshow
By Mike Klis
The Denver Post
Article Last Updated: 10/06/2007 12:54:12 AM MDT
It was early January when the Broncos began preparing for the 2007 season.
They prepared by overhauling their defensive coaching staff. In March, they began resetting their roster. They prepared for the draft in April. They prepared their players through mini-camps, training camp and the preseason. They prepared each week for their first five regular-season opponents.
And now the Broncos have to prepare for the worst-case scenario regarding star tailback Travis Henry.
Confronting a one-year suspension for allegedly failing a drug test, Henry has sued the NFL in hopes of nullifying the test results. Henry said in court documents, "This must be a mistake."
Barring a legal upset, however, there is a good chance the Broncos will not have the league's leading rusher in the second half of this season. If NFL administrators and lawyers have their way and Henry's case returns to league jurisdiction next week, there is a chance Henry will play his final game for the Broncos today against the San Diego Chargers at Invesco Field.
What would become of the Broncos then?
"It's definitely going to hurt us if we lose a guy like him," left tackle Matt Lepsis said. "But we all have a job to do. I know that's a cliché, but everybody has their own job and there's nothing we can do about it."
Still another question: Even with Henry running at tailback until his legal matters are resolved, how will the Broncos handle the sideshow?
"There are always distractions," coach Mike Shanahan said. "Great teams can deal with it. Poor teams can't."
Entering the Chargers game, the Broncos are neither. They are 2-2. Win or lose, the pendulum between great and poor will tilt one way or the other today.
And then if Henry is suspended, the Broncos' season would again have to be recalibrated.
"Heaven forbid it would go that way," defensive tackle Amon Gordon said. "But,
the league is cracking down on a lot of things right now. Obviously, we'd be disappointed, but I do believe there's a lot of talent here and we work hard. I think positive things will come about either way."
Recent history suggests if ever a team could adjust to losing its star running back in mid-season, it's the Broncos. Unknown back Olandis Gary replaced Terrell Davis in 1999. A 27-year-old ex-Marine rookie named Mike Anderson replaced Gary in 2000.
Early season injuries to two starting tailbacks promoted Reuben Droughns from journeyman fullback in 2004.
Each replacement gained at least 1,100 yards.
"You don't want to lose your starter but sometimes you have no choice," Shanahan said. "Had Terrell Davis not got hurt, we would have never known about the other backs."
So if the Broncos lose Henry, they would have experience in crisis tailback management.
"He's a special running back, though," Lepsis said. "He's different. He's a talented guy. It's not like anyone can come in here and put up big numbers like he has so far. There's something special about him."
Analyze the Broncos' roster, and a case can be made Henry is their most irreplaceable player. At least quarterback Jay Cutler has a proven veteran behind him in Patrick Ramsey. Javon Walker will be missed Sunday when he sits out his second consecutive game, but Brandon Marshall and Stokley are no slouches.
Even Champ Bailey, who has no peer at cornerback, nevertheless would have a tested replacement in Domonique Foxworth. Bailey missed two games in 2005 and the Broncos won both.
In Henry's absence, the Broncos would count on Selvin Young, an explosive undrafted rookie who is averaging 9.2 yards on limited carries.
"I have a lot of confidence in Selvin Young," Shanahan said.
Young's lean frame, though, would raise concerns about whether he could take a 20-carry-a-game pounding, especially after he suffered his share of college injuries. Most likely, the Broncos would use a tailback rotation of Young and Andre Hall, who is small but compact.
"I'm looking for an opportunity but I don't want it that way," Hall said. "Honestly, if Travis says he didn't do anything, then I believe him. I'm behind him 100 percent. He's a friend so I'm with him no matter what the outcome may be. Hopefully, it's in his favor. If not, he's still my guy."
Entering this season, Young and Hall had this many NFL carries: Zero. And they're only at 15 combined carries now, all by Young.
Given the chance, the combined yardage of Young and Hall may approach the production of one Henry. Or, the Broncos may rush Cutler's development and decided to become more of an air-strike offense.
Either way, it's clear the Broncos would rather have Henry. Why else would they play him today knowing they may not have him tomorrow?
"It would carry a huge impact," strong safety Nick Ferguson said. "Travis is really a great fit for this offense. Travis could easily be a 2,000-yard back on this team. Hopefully this is something that passes through the night. If not, we have other backs on this team and then it will be time to step up. As everybody knows, if you're a running back here, you never know when opportunity is going to present itself."
Been there, done that
The circumstances are different, but if the Broncos lose Travis Henry to a suspension, it wouldn't be the first time coach Mike Shanahan had to replace his starting running back during the season:
Year Starter Backup Record
1999 Terrell Davis Olandis Gary 6-10
After T.D. injures a knee in the fourth game, Gary gains 1,159 yards in just 12 games.
2000 Olandis Gary Mike Anderson 11-5
Gary injures a knee, but 27-year-old rookie rushes for nearly 1,500 yards.
2004 Mike Anderson Reuben Droughns 10-6
Quentin Griffin
Season-ending injuries to two starters opens up Droughns for 1,240 yards.
Suspension would lead to shakeup
Shanahan ready for sideshow
By Mike Klis
The Denver Post
Article Last Updated: 10/06/2007 12:54:12 AM MDT
It was early January when the Broncos began preparing for the 2007 season.
They prepared by overhauling their defensive coaching staff. In March, they began resetting their roster. They prepared for the draft in April. They prepared their players through mini-camps, training camp and the preseason. They prepared each week for their first five regular-season opponents.
And now the Broncos have to prepare for the worst-case scenario regarding star tailback Travis Henry.
Confronting a one-year suspension for allegedly failing a drug test, Henry has sued the NFL in hopes of nullifying the test results. Henry said in court documents, "This must be a mistake."
Barring a legal upset, however, there is a good chance the Broncos will not have the league's leading rusher in the second half of this season. If NFL administrators and lawyers have their way and Henry's case returns to league jurisdiction next week, there is a chance Henry will play his final game for the Broncos today against the San Diego Chargers at Invesco Field.
What would become of the Broncos then?
"It's definitely going to hurt us if we lose a guy like him," left tackle Matt Lepsis said. "But we all have a job to do. I know that's a cliché, but everybody has their own job and there's nothing we can do about it."
Still another question: Even with Henry running at tailback until his legal matters are resolved, how will the Broncos handle the sideshow?
"There are always distractions," coach Mike Shanahan said. "Great teams can deal with it. Poor teams can't."
Entering the Chargers game, the Broncos are neither. They are 2-2. Win or lose, the pendulum between great and poor will tilt one way or the other today.
And then if Henry is suspended, the Broncos' season would again have to be recalibrated.
"Heaven forbid it would go that way," defensive tackle Amon Gordon said. "But,
the league is cracking down on a lot of things right now. Obviously, we'd be disappointed, but I do believe there's a lot of talent here and we work hard. I think positive things will come about either way."
Recent history suggests if ever a team could adjust to losing its star running back in mid-season, it's the Broncos. Unknown back Olandis Gary replaced Terrell Davis in 1999. A 27-year-old ex-Marine rookie named Mike Anderson replaced Gary in 2000.
Early season injuries to two starting tailbacks promoted Reuben Droughns from journeyman fullback in 2004.
Each replacement gained at least 1,100 yards.
"You don't want to lose your starter but sometimes you have no choice," Shanahan said. "Had Terrell Davis not got hurt, we would have never known about the other backs."
So if the Broncos lose Henry, they would have experience in crisis tailback management.
"He's a special running back, though," Lepsis said. "He's different. He's a talented guy. It's not like anyone can come in here and put up big numbers like he has so far. There's something special about him."
Analyze the Broncos' roster, and a case can be made Henry is their most irreplaceable player. At least quarterback Jay Cutler has a proven veteran behind him in Patrick Ramsey. Javon Walker will be missed Sunday when he sits out his second consecutive game, but Brandon Marshall and Stokley are no slouches.
Even Champ Bailey, who has no peer at cornerback, nevertheless would have a tested replacement in Domonique Foxworth. Bailey missed two games in 2005 and the Broncos won both.
In Henry's absence, the Broncos would count on Selvin Young, an explosive undrafted rookie who is averaging 9.2 yards on limited carries.
"I have a lot of confidence in Selvin Young," Shanahan said.
Young's lean frame, though, would raise concerns about whether he could take a 20-carry-a-game pounding, especially after he suffered his share of college injuries. Most likely, the Broncos would use a tailback rotation of Young and Andre Hall, who is small but compact.
"I'm looking for an opportunity but I don't want it that way," Hall said. "Honestly, if Travis says he didn't do anything, then I believe him. I'm behind him 100 percent. He's a friend so I'm with him no matter what the outcome may be. Hopefully, it's in his favor. If not, he's still my guy."
Entering this season, Young and Hall had this many NFL carries: Zero. And they're only at 15 combined carries now, all by Young.
Given the chance, the combined yardage of Young and Hall may approach the production of one Henry. Or, the Broncos may rush Cutler's development and decided to become more of an air-strike offense.
Either way, it's clear the Broncos would rather have Henry. Why else would they play him today knowing they may not have him tomorrow?
"It would carry a huge impact," strong safety Nick Ferguson said. "Travis is really a great fit for this offense. Travis could easily be a 2,000-yard back on this team. Hopefully this is something that passes through the night. If not, we have other backs on this team and then it will be time to step up. As everybody knows, if you're a running back here, you never know when opportunity is going to present itself."
Been there, done that
The circumstances are different, but if the Broncos lose Travis Henry to a suspension, it wouldn't be the first time coach Mike Shanahan had to replace his starting running back during the season:
Year Starter Backup Record
1999 Terrell Davis Olandis Gary 6-10
After T.D. injures a knee in the fourth game, Gary gains 1,159 yards in just 12 games.
2000 Olandis Gary Mike Anderson 11-5
Gary injures a knee, but 27-year-old rookie rushes for nearly 1,500 yards.
2004 Mike Anderson Reuben Droughns 10-6
Quentin Griffin
Season-ending injuries to two starters opens up Droughns for 1,240 yards.
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
Marc Levin
Hangs out with Oscar Zeta Acosta
moleculo, you know the broncos way too well to have made this statement. Last year is the ONLY year in Shanahan's 13 years with the team that it is even arguable he played RBBC. In 2005, Bell got a lot of touches only b/c Anderson kept getting dinged up. And Anderson finished as the RB10 that year.In 2004, Droughns was dominant almost all year long - but certainly as soon as he was named starter, Shannie didn't look back.Last year, there was a true RBBC in that Shannie kept swapping between Mike Bell and Tatum Bel early in the year, and then TBell got dinged up.Shannie plays his healthy starter until the wheels come off - no RBBC except ot of necessity. A healthy and starting SYoung will be a 20-25 touch player.
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taco breath
Footballguy
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
without reading the 14 pages, has anyone mentioned andre hall?
he's my uber darkhorse! i picked him up in a serious shark league after caddy went down for me. my rb's suck!!
he's my uber darkhorse! i picked him up in a serious shark league after caddy went down for me. my rb's suck!!
Macdaddy_2004
Footballguy
Javon Walker hints that there is more to the story
Walker stuck up for Henry on Friday and cautioned about reading too much into the situation. "Nobody really knows the extent of it," Walker said. "We all trust Travis. Everybody on this team supports Travis. It's funny how a lot of things get blown out of proportion before everybody really knows what happens. He'll be with us the whole year. We're going to try to finish this thing strong."
Walker thought Henry would be vindicated in the end.
"We already know what the situation is," Walker said. "That will get put out at a later day and everybody will understand."
Walker stuck up for Henry on Friday and cautioned about reading too much into the situation. "Nobody really knows the extent of it," Walker said. "We all trust Travis. Everybody on this team supports Travis. It's funny how a lot of things get blown out of proportion before everybody really knows what happens. He'll be with us the whole year. We're going to try to finish this thing strong."
Walker thought Henry would be vindicated in the end.
"We already know what the situation is," Walker said. "That will get put out at a later day and everybody will understand."
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Pocket Joker
Footballguy
moleculo
Footballguy
I meant 2005 and 2006 - sorry. 2004 was all about Reuben Droughns. My bad.I don't agree though that 2005 was RBBC only because MA kept getting dinged up. AS I recall, it was RBBC by design from the start of the season, with the intent of limiting TBell to 15 carries a game - he came in as a COP back primarily, and to add a much needed measure of explosiveness that MA didn't posses. Here is the first link I can find to back up my statement. I'll find more if I have to.moleculo, you know the broncos way too well to have made this statement. Last year is the ONLY year in Shanahan's 13 years with the team that it is even arguable he played RBBC. In 2005, Bell got a lot of touches only b/c Anderson kept getting dinged up. And Anderson finished as the RB10 that year.
In 2004, Droughns was dominant almost all year long - but certainly as soon as he was named starter, Shannie didn't look back.
Last year, there was a true RBBC in that Shannie kept swapping between Mike Bell and Tatum Bel early in the year, and then TBell got dinged up.
Shannie plays his healthy starter until the wheels come off - no RBBC except ot of necessity. A healthy and starting SYoung will be a 20-25 touch player.
ETA: my point is the same: Shanahan has a recent history of resorting to RBBC in times of need - why would he not look to RBBC now? More to the point, what makes anyone think Selvin Young shown can carry the load on his own?
ETA pt II: link
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SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
"I have a lot of confidence in Selvin Young."- Mike Shanahan
Courtjester
The Town Drunk
If there is a silver lining in all this is that Henry really has a cap friendly contract should this all blow up. And he signed a contract with specific language regarding if he is suspened for drug use he has to repay the bonus.
Not counting the bonus money, he has only made like $135,000 of a scheduled $535,000 this year and Denver isn't due to pay another 1 million of his bonus until November,
Just attempting to find some kind of bright spot here...
Not counting the bonus money, he has only made like $135,000 of a scheduled $535,000 this year and Denver isn't due to pay another 1 million of his bonus until November,
Just attempting to find some kind of bright spot here...
Marc Levin
Hangs out with Oscar Zeta Acosta
1) limiting Bell to 15 carries a game: Shannie said sonething about Bell being most effective in his first 15 carries and that was blown out of proportion by all us FF geeks. Mike Anderson carried the LOAD that year, until he got hurt. I don't feel like pulling the numbers, but you can look for yourself as they support that claim. Anderson's numbers fell off after he was hurt in week 12.2) re: ETA 1, Shannie won't resort to RBBC in this situation because the O is geared to ride a horse. He went into last year with an unsettled RB situation and questions on who was 1, 2, and 3. This year, the RB situation was settled on opening day. Henry was the horse, and Young won the #2 spot. The true analogy here is the Droughns/Olandis gary/Anderson I/Portis I years - not the anomoly of last year. In those years, the backup was forced to step up when the starter became unavailable for the remainder of the year.moleculo said:I meant 2005 and 2006 - sorry. 2004 was all about Reuben Droughns. My bad.I don't agree though that 2005 was RBBC only because MA kept getting dinged up. AS I recall, it was RBBC by design from the start of the season, with the intent of limiting TBell to 15 carries a game - he came in as a COP back primarily, and to add a much needed measure of explosiveness that MA didn't posses. Here is the first link I can find to back up my statement. I'll find more if I have to.moleculo, you know the broncos way too well to have made this statement. Last year is the ONLY year in Shanahan's 13 years with the team that it is even arguable he played RBBC. In 2005, Bell got a lot of touches only b/c Anderson kept getting dinged up. And Anderson finished as the RB10 that year.
In 2004, Droughns was dominant almost all year long - but certainly as soon as he was named starter, Shannie didn't look back.
Last year, there was a true RBBC in that Shannie kept swapping between Mike Bell and Tatum Bel early in the year, and then TBell got dinged up.
Shannie plays his healthy starter until the wheels come off - no RBBC except ot of necessity. A healthy and starting SYoung will be a 20-25 touch player.
ETA: my point is the same: Shanahan has a recent history of resorting to RBBC in times of need - why would he not look to RBBC now? More to the point, what makes anyone think Selvin Young shown can carry the load on his own?
ETA pt II: link
3) Denver op-ed piece. Same crap circulated in the past.
Simply put, Shannie went to RBBC in '06 out of necessity - the necessity of option A failing. Option A is always one back stepping up to carry the load. In the most conservative view of this, I will say that if (when) Henry is gone, Young or another back will be named starter and will be given EVERY OPP in the world to produce like a 20+ carry back. Shannie will not voluntarily split his RBs' carries - and he certainly will not go to RBBC as optionnumber one once he loses his starter. But he will be more willing to use multiple backs situationally than he would with Henry in there - and he'll have a shorter leash at the ready of the starter screws up by either fumbling or missing blocks.
IOW, If he names Sapp the starter, that will be your 18-22 carry back. SY will be used situationally on change of pace and mike bell might be used a bit near the GL. Conversely, if SY is named starter, he will be your 18-22 carry back and Sapp will be used in short yardage (as he was the first couple of games). Heck, Mike Bell or Hall could win the starter role - but whichever back wins the start will be an 18 to 20-ish carry back on the team.
Seeing Shannie split his backs' carries, or swapping them every other series like he did with Bell and Bell last year, is a desperate move for a running game that is not clicking. If you recall, the Bronco running game in '06 was the worst it had been since '01. I don't think Shannie will willingly look towards that type of running back situation. While it is possible, I give it a 70% chance that it plays out my way, a 25% chance it plays out as a RBBC and a 5% chance that Henry remains as Denver's back for the rest of the year and our discussion is moot.
Something that seems to be lost in all the controversy over Henry vs Young is that the Denver rb position hasn't been all that so far this year (especially considering Henry has 1 td). I have Henry in a ppr league and he has outscored my #4 wr (R Curry) by about 1.8 pts per game so far. Frankly, I don't see whoever takes over for Henry improving on those #'s much and all this hubbub is probably much ado about nada when all is said and done.
That's nice for Henry owners to hear. Althought I'm not optimistic that it's not just a teammate supporting another.Macdaddy_2004 said:Javon Walker hints that there is more to the story
Walker stuck up for Henry on Friday and cautioned about reading too much into the situation. "Nobody really knows the extent of it," Walker said. "We all trust Travis. Everybody on this team supports Travis. It's funny how a lot of things get blown out of proportion before everybody really knows what happens. He'll be with us the whole year. We're going to try to finish this thing strong."
Walker thought Henry would be vindicated in the end.
"We already know what the situation is," Walker said. "That will get put out at a later day and everybody will understand."
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
i did mention that my rb's sux0r! bigtime! it was him or corey dillon....Pocket Joker said:DA RAIDERS said:
moleculo
Footballguy
I don't really want to debate this further regarding 2005, but you are wrong on almost every count. I don't want to discuss it because it is distracting from my main point, which is RBBC is a very real possibility for the remainder of 2007.Look - I am not gonna guarantee that RBBC will happen. As a Bronco fan, I would love nothing more than to see SYoung (or Sapp) take the reigns and continue where Henry leaves off. But, RBBC is a very distinct possibility that must be accounted for. You will know that RBBC is happening when/if you read the report that MBell is moved to RB. My whole hypothesis depends on that. This may not be the first game sans Henry - SYoung may get his shot, but if he earns the lions share of carries will depend on more than running the ball - it will depend on blocking, not fumbling, and short yardage production.1) limiting Bell to 15 carries a game: Shannie said sonething about Bell being most effective in his first 15 carries and that was blown out of proportion by all us FF geeks. Mike Anderson carried the LOAD that year, until he got hurt. I don't feel like pulling the numbers, but you can look for yourself as they support that claim. Anderson's numbers fell off after he was hurt in week 12.2) re: ETA 1, Shannie won't resort to RBBC in this situation because the O is geared to ride a horse. He went into last year with an unsettled RB situation and questions on who was 1, 2, and 3. This year, the RB situation was settled on opening day. Henry was the horse, and Young won the #2 spot. The true analogy here is the Droughns/Olandis gary/Anderson I/Portis I years - not the anomoly of last year. In those years, the backup was forced to step up when the starter became unavailable for the remainder of the year.moleculo said:I meant 2005 and 2006 - sorry. 2004 was all about Reuben Droughns. My bad.I don't agree though that 2005 was RBBC only because MA kept getting dinged up. AS I recall, it was RBBC by design from the start of the season, with the intent of limiting TBell to 15 carries a game - he came in as a COP back primarily, and to add a much needed measure of explosiveness that MA didn't posses. Here is the first link I can find to back up my statement. I'll find more if I have to.moleculo, you know the broncos way too well to have made this statement. Last year is the ONLY year in Shanahan's 13 years with the team that it is even arguable he played RBBC. In 2005, Bell got a lot of touches only b/c Anderson kept getting dinged up. And Anderson finished as the RB10 that year.
In 2004, Droughns was dominant almost all year long - but certainly as soon as he was named starter, Shannie didn't look back.
Last year, there was a true RBBC in that Shannie kept swapping between Mike Bell and Tatum Bel early in the year, and then TBell got dinged up.
Shannie plays his healthy starter until the wheels come off - no RBBC except ot of necessity. A healthy and starting SYoung will be a 20-25 touch player.
ETA: my point is the same: Shanahan has a recent history of resorting to RBBC in times of need - why would he not look to RBBC now? More to the point, what makes anyone think Selvin Young shown can carry the load on his own?
ETA pt II: link
3) Denver op-ed piece. Same crap circulated in the past.
Simply put, Shannie went to RBBC in '06 out of necessity - the necessity of option A failing. Option A is always one back stepping up to carry the load. In the most conservative view of this, I will say that if (when) Henry is gone, Young or another back will be named starter and will be given EVERY OPP in the world to produce like a 20+ carry back. Shannie will not voluntarily split his RBs' carries - and he certainly will not go to RBBC as optionnumber one once he loses his starter. But he will be more willing to use multiple backs situationally than he would with Henry in there - and he'll have a shorter leash at the ready of the starter screws up by either fumbling or missing blocks.
IOW, If he names Sapp the starter, that will be your 18-22 carry back. SY will be used situationally on change of pace and mike bell might be used a bit near the GL. Conversely, if SY is named starter, he will be your 18-22 carry back and Sapp will be used in short yardage (as he was the first couple of games). Heck, Mike Bell or Hall could win the starter role - but whichever back wins the start will be an 18 to 20-ish carry back on the team.
Seeing Shannie split his backs' carries, or swapping them every other series like he did with Bell and Bell last year, is a desperate move for a running game that is not clicking. If you recall, the Bronco running game in '06 was the worst it had been since '01. I don't think Shannie will willingly look towards that type of running back situation. While it is possible, I give it a 70% chance that it plays out my way, a 25% chance it plays out as a RBBC and a 5% chance that Henry remains as Denver's back for the rest of the year and our discussion is moot.
RoosterScott
Footballguy
Can we all seriously put this topic to sleep. If the guy is suspended it won't be for another month. Then you can speculate all you want on a RBBC. Those who are for it will not be carrying SY on their roster. Those who are against it will carry SY on their roster. This nonsense has got to stop. Can't we pin this in a CRYSTAL BALL forum? You guys should seriously call that Brown lady. I'm sure she already knows what's going to happen!
Marc Levin
Hangs out with Oscar Zeta Acosta
Your argument for RBBC hinges on '05 and '06 being RBBC. And I am telling you that you are wrong that 2005 was a RBBC situation. Shannie did not play it that way, and Anderson finished as the #10 fantasy RB that year. So, even granting you that, early in the year, Shannie tried to get TBell more touches, Mike Anderson was THE Denver back until he got hurt. Also, if he plays '05 RBBC rather than '06 RBBC, we can count on "the starter" being a fantasy RB1, not a RBBC member.As for 2006, I agreed on it being a RBBC - and it was the worst rushing stats for Denver since TD went down with an injury in 2001. Your argument is that Shannie will play it like last year, while my argument is that Shannie will play it like '05, '04, 03, and '02.Whether 2005 was an RBBC situation IS the debate, moleculo, as it is your main point. Your main point is that Shannie "recently" goes with RBBC - and you know as well as anyone that is NOT how Shannie plays his RBs. Last year was the exception, not the rule - for all the reasons I outlined.Like I said at the end, I see it as 70% likely he names a starter and rides that horse and a very small chance (25%) that he uses his backs from the get-go like he used TBell and MBell. Simply put, that system did not work for the Broncos.
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Marc Levin
Hangs out with Oscar Zeta Acosta
That's foolish talk - this game is all about speculation.EVERY owner should be looking to roster SY if they can. The question is whether it is also worth rostering any of the three other backs.Finally, noone made you open this thread - there are two threads on this page that are clearly "news only" threads.
RoosterScott
Footballguy
What does "noone" mean? Again, speculate all you want over URINE! That's what this will boil down to. Any person with football knowledge knows that the staff in DEN likes SY and his potential. I'll repeat myself again...you're guessing over URINE, PEE, or whatever you want to call it.
Marc Levin
Hangs out with Oscar Zeta Acosta
I agree. Good posting.
