Tristan Thompson is a moron (1 Viewer)

[RedmondLonghorn]

i am aware of taxes and agent fees.

I am fine with Athletes getting what they can, but in this case it was incredibly moronic give all the details.

How do you figure? He got an extra 2 million above what they were previously offering and he didn't have to play in a bunch of silly preseason games, which I'm sure was nice after playing into June last season. I don't think he or the team lost anything by his missing training camp since the coach and personnel are largely the same as last season and they're a lock for a high seed in the playoffs anyway so they have months to fine tune things. There was very little risk from his standpoint. I'm sure he was hoping for more but it's not like he cost himself any money, which plenty of other athletes have done by overestimating their worth.

You are not looking at this even the slightest bit the way I am. Basketball has zero to do with it.

He spent the last couple months risking getting NOTHING rather than take 80 million guaranteed. And its not like he was super rich beforehand.

Anyway, never mind, I guess I am crazy for accepting 80 million NOW rather than risk something terrible happening over a 2 month span when i don't have a ton of money, and MAYBE I get more more than 80 mill.

You really thought the Cavs were not going to resign him?

Wow. That is really poor reading comprehension, even for this crowd.

 

[TobiasFunke]

i am aware of taxes and agent fees.

I am fine with Athletes getting what they can, but in this case it was incredibly moronic give all the details.

How do you figure? He got an extra 2 million above what they were previously offering and he didn't have to play in a bunch of silly preseason games, which I'm sure was nice after playing into June last season. I don't think he or the team lost anything by his missing training camp since the coach and personnel are largely the same as last season and they're a lock for a high seed in the playoffs anyway so they have months to fine tune things. There was very little risk from his standpoint. I'm sure he was hoping for more but it's not like he cost himself any money, which plenty of other athletes have done by overestimating their worth.

You are not looking at this even the slightest bit the way I am. Basketball has zero to do with it.

He spent the last couple months risking getting NOTHING rather than take 80 million guaranteed. And its not like he was super rich beforehand.

Anyway, never mind, I guess I am crazy for accepting 80 million NOW rather than risk something terrible happening over a 2 month span when i don't have a ton of money, and MAYBE I get more more than 80 mill.

How so? There was little to no risk of injury while he sat, and I assume he has some insurance in place if he broke his leg working out or falling down the stairs some freak thing like that. And even if he did sustain some sort of serious injury he could probably recover in time to get a pre-deadline deal to help some team in the playoffs, which are 7 months away, and then enter free agency after the cap expansion next summer. And even if this freak non-playing injury was somehow so bad that he couldn't get back in 7 months he'd still get paid next summer. Worst case scenario (and remember this is only if he tears his achilles lifting weights or some such nonsense) he takes a one year deal in 2016 and then reenters free agency after another cap bump in 2017.

 

[avoiding injuries]

Just not having to worry about it alone is worth 1/40 of the contract. I'm sure JPP would take the extension that was offered to him right about now.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Just not having to worry about it alone is worth 1/40 of the contract. I'm sure JPP would take the extension that was offered to him right about now.

It certainly wasn't the greatest negotiating tactic an athlete has ever employed and my guess is he might even agree with you and wish it didn't happen. I just don't see the risk here, nor do I see how it was "incredibly moronic." He didn't cost himself any money, and at no point was there any real chance he wouldn't get a big payday at some point.

 

[ghostguy123]

Just not having to worry about it alone is worth 1/40 of the contract. I'm sure JPP would take the extension that was offered to him right about now.

It certainly wasn't the greatest negotiating tactic an athlete has ever employed and my guess is he might even agree with you and wish it didn't happen. I just don't see the risk here, nor do I see how it was "incredibly moronic." He didn't cost himself any money, and at no point was there any real chance he wouldn't get a big payday at some point.

So you were just given the Pierre Paul example yet you still say you see no risk? Jesus. How many millions upon millions did that guy cost himself due to some fluke thing?

JPP isn't the only example of this by the way.

It was moronic on several different levels, but hey, congrats to TT, he got a couple extra million out of it. He "won", so to speak.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Just not having to worry about it alone is worth 1/40 of the contract. I'm sure JPP would take the extension that was offered to him right about now.

It certainly wasn't the greatest negotiating tactic an athlete has ever employed and my guess is he might even agree with you and wish it didn't happen. I just don't see the risk here, nor do I see how it was "incredibly moronic." He didn't cost himself any money, and at no point was there any real chance he wouldn't get a big payday at some point.

So you were just given the Pierre Paul example yet you still say you see no risk? Jesus. How many millions upon millions did that guy cost himself due to some fluke thing?

JPP isn't the only example of this by the way.

It was moronic on several different levels, but hey, congrats to TT, he got a couple extra million out of it. He "won", so to speak.

Being an idiot is not a fluke.

 

[ghostguy123]

i am aware of taxes and agent fees.

I am fine with Athletes getting what they can, but in this case it was incredibly moronic give all the details.

How do you figure? He got an extra 2 million above what they were previously offering and he didn't have to play in a bunch of silly preseason games, which I'm sure was nice after playing into June last season. I don't think he or the team lost anything by his missing training camp since the coach and personnel are largely the same as last season and they're a lock for a high seed in the playoffs anyway so they have months to fine tune things. There was very little risk from his standpoint. I'm sure he was hoping for more but it's not like he cost himself any money, which plenty of other athletes have done by overestimating their worth.

You are not looking at this even the slightest bit the way I am. Basketball has zero to do with it.

He spent the last couple months risking getting NOTHING rather than take 80 million guaranteed. And its not like he was super rich beforehand.

Anyway, never mind, I guess I am crazy for accepting 80 million NOW rather than risk something terrible happening over a 2 month span when i don't have a ton of money, and MAYBE I get more more than 80 mill.

How so? There was little to no risk of injury while he sat, and I assume he has some insurance in place if he broke his leg working out or falling down the stairs some freak thing like that. And even if he did sustain some sort of serious injury he could probably recover in time to get a pre-deadline deal to help some team in the playoffs, which are 7 months away, and then enter free agency after the cap expansion next summer. And even if this freak non-playing injury was somehow so bad that he couldn't get back in 7 months he'd still get paid next summer. Worst case scenario (and remember this is only if he tears his achilles lifting weights or some such nonsense) he takes a one year deal in 2016 and then reenters free agency after another cap bump in 2017.

just curious, what do you think he was doing while he "sat"? Do you think he was in a bubble inside of a fortress in some mountain range somewhere? I suppose car accidents, other stupid accidents, assaults, or disease never happen??

If he was already super rich, then fine. He wasn't. He risked all the money he could ever hope to have just to try and get a little more. He would have been an even bigger idiot if he signed that 1 year qualifying offer.

 

[ghostguy123]

Just not having to worry about it alone is worth 1/40 of the contract. I'm sure JPP would take the extension that was offered to him right about now.

It certainly wasn't the greatest negotiating tactic an athlete has ever employed and my guess is he might even agree with you and wish it didn't happen. I just don't see the risk here, nor do I see how it was "incredibly moronic." He didn't cost himself any money, and at no point was there any real chance he wouldn't get a big payday at some point.

So you were just given the Pierre Paul example yet you still say you see no risk? Jesus. How many millions upon millions did that guy cost himself due to some fluke thing?

JPP isn't the only example of this by the way.

It was moronic on several different levels, but hey, congrats to TT, he got a couple extra million out of it. He "won", so to speak.

Being an idiot is not a fluke.

Oh, well, you win then. I suppose we should just end this thread and crown you champ.

I wonder how smart you guys would have thought TT was if he got unlucky and someone pulled a tracy Morgan on him.

 

[ghostguy123]

Oh by the way, I am glad the Cavs signed him for 5 years. Overpaid yeah, for now anyway. If he continues to impact the team the way he was last year, it's worth it. It will always be an overpay, but sometimes that's just fine when your owner prints money and loves using it.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Just not having to worry about it alone is worth 1/40 of the contract. I'm sure JPP would take the extension that was offered to him right about now.

It certainly wasn't the greatest negotiating tactic an athlete has ever employed and my guess is he might even agree with you and wish it didn't happen. I just don't see the risk here, nor do I see how it was "incredibly moronic." He didn't cost himself any money, and at no point was there any real chance he wouldn't get a big payday at some point.

So you were just given the Pierre Paul example yet you still say you see no risk? Jesus. How many millions upon millions did that guy cost himself due to some fluke thing?

JPP isn't the only example of this by the way.

It was moronic on several different levels, but hey, congrats to TT, he got a couple extra million out of it. He "won", so to speak.

By my back of the envelope count there are somewhere in the neighborhood of 3,500 active professional athletes just on active rosters (so not counting injured guys or D-league/scout team/minor league types) in the four major team sports in the US. You named one example of a guy who sustained a freak non-playing injury over the last few months, and it was an incident that a person with common sense could easily avoid. Do you have any other examples? Because 1 in 3500 doesn't strike me as a particularly significant risk, especially if it can be avoided with some common sense.

Seems to me like you're just eager to call a guy a moron because he was holding out. Are you a Cavs fan by any chance?

 

[ghostguy123]

Just not having to worry about it alone is worth 1/40 of the contract. I'm sure JPP would take the extension that was offered to him right about now.

It certainly wasn't the greatest negotiating tactic an athlete has ever employed and my guess is he might even agree with you and wish it didn't happen. I just don't see the risk here, nor do I see how it was "incredibly moronic." He didn't cost himself any money, and at no point was there any real chance he wouldn't get a big payday at some point.

So you were just given the Pierre Paul example yet you still say you see no risk? Jesus. How many millions upon millions did that guy cost himself due to some fluke thing?

JPP isn't the only example of this by the way.

It was moronic on several different levels, but hey, congrats to TT, he got a couple extra million out of it. He "won", so to speak.

By my back of the envelope count there are somewhere in the neighborhood of 3,500 active professional athletes just on active rosters (so not counting injured guys or D-league/scout team/minor league types) in the four major team sports in the US. You named one example of a guy who sustained a freak non-playing injury over the last few months, and it was an incident that a person with common sense could easily avoid. Do you have any other examples? Because 1 in 3500 doesn't strike me as a particularly significant risk, especially if it can be avoided with some common sense.

Seems to me like you're just eager to call a guy a moron because he was holding out. Are you a Cavs fan by any chance?

I dont care if players hold out when it actually makes sense. yes I am a cavs fan, but that has no bearing on this at all. he misses preseason, yippee. I am not worried about the Cavs in october or november.

he is a moron because he isnt super rich, he had 80 million staring him in the face a month or two ago, and at no point was he ever going to get what he was asking for.

He took all the risk for not very much of a reward.

There aren't THAT many instances of players holding out for more money that are nearly as dramtaic as this given all the details, which is why I started the thread in the first place.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

He took all the risk for not very much of a reward.

You must pretty rich if $2M isn't much of a reward.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Just not having to worry about it alone is worth 1/40 of the contract. I'm sure JPP would take the extension that was offered to him right about now.

It certainly wasn't the greatest negotiating tactic an athlete has ever employed and my guess is he might even agree with you and wish it didn't happen. I just don't see the risk here, nor do I see how it was "incredibly moronic." He didn't cost himself any money, and at no point was there any real chance he wouldn't get a big payday at some point.

So you were just given the Pierre Paul example yet you still say you see no risk? Jesus. How many millions upon millions did that guy cost himself due to some fluke thing?

JPP isn't the only example of this by the way.

It was moronic on several different levels, but hey, congrats to TT, he got a couple extra million out of it. He "won", so to speak.

By my back of the envelope count there are somewhere in the neighborhood of 3,500 active professional athletes just on active rosters (so not counting injured guys or D-league/scout team/minor league types) in the four major team sports in the US. You named one example of a guy who sustained a freak non-playing injury over the last few months, and it was an incident that a person with common sense could easily avoid. Do you have any other examples? Because 1 in 3500 doesn't strike me as a particularly significant risk, especially if it can be avoided with some common sense.

Seems to me like you're just eager to call a guy a moron because he was holding out. Are you a Cavs fan by any chance?

I dont care if players hold out when it actually makes sense. yes I am a cavs fan, but that has no bearing on this at all. he misses preseason, yippee. I am not worried about the Cavs in october or november.

he is a moron because he isnt super rich, he had 80 million staring him in the face a month or two ago, and at no point was he ever going to get what he was asking for.

He took all the risk for not very much of a reward.

There aren't THAT many instances of players holding out for more money that are nearly as dramtaic as this given all the details, which is why I started the thread in the first place.

This seems to be the disconnect. Not very much of a reward, yes. But also not very much of a risk. Like basically none.

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

Just not having to worry about it alone is worth 1/40 of the contract. I'm sure JPP would take the extension that was offered to him right about now.

It certainly wasn't the greatest negotiating tactic an athlete has ever employed and my guess is he might even agree with you and wish it didn't happen. I just don't see the risk here, nor do I see how it was "incredibly moronic." He didn't cost himself any money, and at no point was there any real chance he wouldn't get a big payday at some point.

So you were just given the Pierre Paul example yet you still say you see no risk? Jesus. How many millions upon millions did that guy cost himself due to some fluke thing?

JPP isn't the only example of this by the way.

It was moronic on several different levels, but hey, congrats to TT, he got a couple extra million out of it. He "won", so to speak.

By my back of the envelope count there are somewhere in the neighborhood of 3,500 active professional athletes just on active rosters (so not counting injured guys or D-league/scout team/minor league types) in the four major team sports in the US. You named one example of a guy who sustained a freak non-playing injury over the last few months, and it was an incident that a person with common sense could easily avoid. Do you have any other examples? Because 1 in 3500 doesn't strike me as a particularly significant risk, especially if it can be avoided with some common sense.

Seems to me like you're just eager to call a guy a moron because he was holding out. Are you a Cavs fan by any chance?

I dont care if players hold out when it actually makes sense. yes I am a cavs fan, but that has no bearing on this at all. he misses preseason, yippee. I am not worried about the Cavs in october or november.

he is a moron because he isnt super rich, he had 80 million staring him in the face a month or two ago, and at no point was he ever going to get what he was asking for.

He took all the risk for not very much of a reward.

There aren't THAT many instances of players holding out for more money that are nearly as dramtaic as this given all the details, which is why I started the thread in the first place.

This seems to be the disconnect. Not very much of a reward, yes. But also not very much of a risk. Like basically none.

Exactly. Some teams play hardball and pull the original offer, but Cleveland never even did that.

 

[CGRdrJoe]

This thread is a front runner to win "worst thread of 2015 in the FFA", no easy feat these days

 

[Dr. Octopus]

He took all the risk for not very much of a reward.

Based on what I've read in this forum what some people would do for even less than the $2MM extra Thompson received, I'd say you have this statement backwards.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

Not sure why anyone would get this worked up about it.

May not have been the smartest move, regardless of the result, but what do you really care?

 

[Dickies]

Just not having to worry about it alone is worth 1/40 of the contract. I'm sure JPP would take the extension that was offered to him right about now.

It certainly wasn't the greatest negotiating tactic an athlete has ever employed and my guess is he might even agree with you and wish it didn't happen. I just don't see the risk here, nor do I see how it was "incredibly moronic." He didn't cost himself any money, and at no point was there any real chance he wouldn't get a big payday at some point.

So you were just given the Pierre Paul example yet you still say you see no risk? Jesus. How many millions upon millions did that guy cost himself due to some fluke thing?

JPP isn't the only example of this by the way.

It was moronic on several different levels, but hey, congrats to TT, he got a couple extra million out of it. He "won", so to speak.

I bet most athletes squeeze an extra couple million dollars out of deals. How many come down with some fluke injury during negotiations? Sure it happens, but I would argue the net gain favors the athlete asking for more money. Not that I have any actual figures.

 

[ghostguy123]

He took all the risk for not very much of a reward.

You must pretty rich if $2M isn't much of a reward.

Not when the risk is 80 million.

You must be pretty rich to not take an 80 million dollar guaranteed contract when offered to you in hopes that maybe you get a little more after a few months.

 

[ghostguy123]

This seems to be the disconnect. Not very much of a reward, yes. But also not very much of a risk. Like basically none.

So there is no risk of a workout injury, disease, car wreck, or one of a hundred other fluke things that can happen to someone that can hinder their physical abilities?

Alrighty then.

 

[ghostguy123]

Oh by the way, I am glad the Cavs signed him for 5 years. Overpaid yeah, for now anyway. If he continues to impact the team the way he was last year, it's worth it. It will always be an overpay, but sometimes that's just fine when your owner prints money and loves using it.

I still see this, in conjunction with other Cavs front court moves, as a franchise killing contract, at least for the Cavs hope to win rings.

Thompson, as stated before,

1) Cannot defend the rim

2) Cannot space the floor with long range shooting

3) Cannot play center, not even in the new small ball trend where teams are using smaller more mobile guys at center.

That's a lot of cap tied into a player who offers more tradeoffs than problems solved, esp when a lot of his trade offs require LeBron James to work 3 times as hard when LBJ is at a stage of his career where he should be pacing himself more, not less.

LBJ, Kevin Love, Thompson, Varejao and soon to be well paid Mozgov. That's going to be a ton of cash infused into a front court that has some serious balancing issues ( to take the East? No. But to win a ring? Yes, for sure. )

ghostguy - I realize this doesn't matter, you are a homer, you don't care. Reason and logic aren't going to matter here. How the NBA trends and actual resource management won't sway you. It's just too bad you can't objectively see this as a purely bad contract from the minute it was signed ( much like the Joe Johnson with the Hawks and Carlos Boozer with the Bulls and Amare Stoudamire with the Knicks)

Sure Thompson is young, but he's a limited energy guy off the bench making big dollars on a team with an already expensive front court. A guy like Kyle O'Quinn, who signed with the Knicks, could have given the Cavs so much more for less ( defense, rim protection, a true banger, heady tough play by a guy who understands how to fit a role)

Of course it's likely Doctor Detroit will continue to class it up here and lash out and attack me again for having a basketball opinion in a basketball thread. Then again, why shouldn't he be angry, he and I have never gotten along and I outed him years ago.

The Cavs will be a very competitive team. Good shot to make multiple finals in the future. However LBJ could have made those future years much easier on himself by de facto GMing himself some real help on the wings instead.

This makes no sense.

The Cavs window of opportunity to win is pretty much the next 2-3 years. All this "homer" talk and how I am not using reason and logic are a very poor attempt to make yourself look smart and make me look clueless. It's sad.

I already said they overpaid, but Thompson actually does serve an important role on the team, and has a positive impact, and has also shown improvement every year. Those bad contracts you mentioned were old guys.

I also don't see why you think their current roster somehow isn't going to compete with the west in the finals. Balancing issue? They won two finals games against a healthy GS team when they were missing their 2nd and 3rd best players. The Cavs were full of players who just joined the team, took time to gel, and had the best record in the NBA after the all star break. Yes, even a better record than GS. Rather impressive for a team with about 10 guys who never played together, and now the entire core of the team is back together (at least when Irving is back from injury, whenever that may be. 2 months?).

Bron is 31. He has already shown that he has declined a significant amount from how good he was in Miami. By age 33-34 it will be even worse. The window is right now and for maybe 2-3 years tops.

I am rather happy that Gilbert is not worried about the cap situation in 2019. Why are you? Why would anyone be worried about that, Cavs fan or not? Once Lebron is no longer an elite player this team will have no chance at a title. Worst record in the league or bounced from the playoffs in round 1. Makes no difference to me. I prefer the worst record actually.

This particular roster is more than capable of winning a title, and I think they do win it last year without Irving and Love out. My guess is the Cavs organization also feels that way. Maybe this year the Cavs are healthy and face GS with Clay Thompson and some other starter injured. I bet that would be real great for GS.

 

[the moops]

Why are you so worked up over this?

 

[Long Ball Larry]

This seems to be the disconnect. Not very much of a reward, yes. But also not very much of a risk. Like basically none.

So there is no risk of a workout injury, disease, car wreck, or one of a hundred other fluke things that can happen to someone that can hinder their physical abilities?

Alrighty then.

This is what is known catastrophic thinking. (also known as Dentist Syndrome)

 

[Cliff Clavin]

He took all the risk for not very much of a reward.

You must pretty rich if $2M isn't much of a reward.

Not when the risk is 80 million.

You must be pretty rich to not take an 80 million dollar guaranteed contract when offered to you in hopes that maybe you get a little more after a few months.

If all you had to do was avoid being crippled for the next two months and you'd get $2M, you think you could do it?

 

[Dr. Octopus]

This seems to be the disconnect. Not very much of a reward, yes. But also not very much of a risk. Like basically none.

So there is no risk of a workout injury, disease, car wreck, or one of a hundred other fluke things that can happen to someone that can hinder their physical abilities?

Alrighty then.

How many free agent players in any sport can you name that suffered a career ending (or even a less devastating injury) during the offseason?

You are severely overstating the risks.

 

[ghostguy123]

He took all the risk for not very much of a reward.

You must pretty rich if $2M isn't much of a reward.

Not when the risk is 80 million.

You must be pretty rich to not take an 80 million dollar guaranteed contract when offered to you in hopes that maybe you get a little more after a few months.

If all you had to do was avoid being crippled for the next two months and you'd get $2M, you think you could do it?

Yes

Would I do it if I was not super rich and offered 80 million NOW but in two months would get 82 million, hell no. Idiocy

 

[ghostguy123]

So the consensus here is that none of you would have accepted the 80 million dollar offer two months ago when it was offered.

Alright. case closed.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

So the consensus here is that none of you would have accepted the 80 million dollar offer two months ago when it was offered.

Alright. case closed.

I'd say the consensus here is that none of us know what was happening with the negotiations and that Thompson and his agent probably had a good idea that they'd get more money. The risk for holding out was relatively nil based on the Cavs current cap situation and on court needs. And that calling a guy a moron based on a sliver of information is, well, moronic.