The Commish
Footballguy
Do we have an alias matrix here that those of us smart enough to stay away from the idiots in the Trump thread can use to figure out which alias is which?
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Trump and Bigotry: A False Association (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Maurile Tremblay
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Moobers
Footballguy
Mile High
Footballguy
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Ksquared
Footballguy
Well the leftists have determined all whites are racist even if we do not know it...white privilege, etc. So you just determined no white is qualified to ever be President? Sounds like perfect leftist logic.
I don't normally get in the middle of these political spats in the FFA and just lurk, but these last 6 months have been sickening and the last week since the election is over the top. This country has been able to have peaceful transitions of power for over 200 years, but for the first time we are approaching new areas that do not mean well for the future of our country. 25% of the country voted for a candidate that lost and now many are protesting/rioting because we did not win. Look at history, once we go down this road as a country it will be very hard to stop this movement in the future. I truly wish more of you cared about the future of this country (20-50 yrs from now) than the immediate victory by the side you are on.
Do any of you on the left understand how this broad brushing of anyone that disagrees with you and gets labeled has directly related to this vote for Trump. I am seeing much more racist anti-white and anti-conservative statements by the left on this board in the last 6 months than statements the other way and it is not even close. You elitist leftist snobs, pro central government, socialist/communist advocates are extremely unAmerican and unpatriotic for the deplorable attacks you have made about people you do not know anything about. I may start using the best broad brush labeling (see last sentence) of you leftists and see how fair or reasonable you feel it is. I noticed little to no condemnation of threats to assassinate Trump by the elitist left and most on these boards. You leftist just keep going on your with attacks of you are with us or you are "scum the earth" circle jerk. It continues to alienate average and thinking Americans. Flame away
Ksquared
Footballguy
And as someone stated above....not accepting the lefts versions of political correct language/thoughts/feelings does not mean they are sexist, racist, etc. In my case it means I feel the basis of the arguments have been framed wrong. It is a little like trying to defend yourself when someone states "when are going to stop beating your wife"...you never did beat your wife, but the framing of the response is already set up. Much of the PC crap is just that. Best recent example...you can't use "posse" as a term anymore because someone has decided that is not PC and racist.
The Commish
Footballguy
I'm a sucker for a train wreck....and mindnumbingly stupid arguments a gnat has comebacks for. What's shocking to me is how much of this exists on both sides. The back and forth between the party faithful around here has devolved into a bad Springer episode....quickly. People just say #### that doesn't make any sense.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Read Sessions quotes and oast issues as to why he didnt end up as a fed judge with Reagan ...they are racist. not "un PC"..do the same with kobach's actions...plenty on Bannon too.
timschochet
Footballguy
Don't forget Pompeo. His last campaign was against a guy of Indian descent. Pompeo's campaign slogan was "Vote American!"
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
mrip541
Footballguy
Yup, not racist at all. Nothing to see here. Oh, you say he's appointing notorious racists to powerful positions? Certainly nothing to be worried about.
Wrigley
Footballguy
squistion
Footballguy
David Corn @DavidCornDC 1h1 hour ago
Trump to African Americans: "What do you got to lose?"
Now we know: a Justice Department that cares about civil rights and voting rights.
Trump to African Americans: "What do you got to lose?"
Now we know: a Justice Department that cares about civil rights and voting rights.
mrip541
Footballguy
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Wrigley
Footballguy
mrip541
Footballguy
Grace Under Pressure
Footballguy
To be fair, he said "what the hell do you have to lose?"
Someone posted more voters should have turned out for Hillary then. It's true. Milwaukee, Detroit et. al. didn't turn out. Gotta try for yourselves, because only so many other voters will be empathetic/sympathetic on your behalf. You put forth crappy voter participation, then you're going to have policies foisted upon you and will have to live with the consequences.
timschochet
Footballguy
What's really frustrating is that as things get worse more people will join BLM. There will be more protests, and some will act stupid and cause riots and act violent. Then some conservatives and Trump supporters will group the stupid rioters in with the peaceful protestors and act as if they're all the same and call for even more law and order, and the public will be exasperated with the whole business, tired of hearing about it, and nothing will be solved...
msommer
Footballguy
Because this is what happened with MLK/civil rights and the anti Vietnam war protests?
Grace Under Pressure
Footballguy
Especially when the answers already lie in civics. Get out and exercise the civil rights we're all granted as citizens en masse at the polls. The small protests, while good for headlines, don't affect change. If anything it turns people off, as you highlight.
Skoo
Footballguy
Yeah, I'm just gonna go ahead and keep calling it like I see it.
If you say racist and bigoted things, and pander to racists and bigots, you're gonna get called out for it.
I don't feel bad about standing up for the little guy. I'm proud of it.
What's the alternative for liberals anyway?
Are we supposed to stop calling out racism and bigotry just because we're scared we're hurting Republicans' feelings?
Thanks but no.
If you say racist and bigoted things, and pander to racists and bigots, you're gonna get called out for it.
I don't feel bad about standing up for the little guy. I'm proud of it.
What's the alternative for liberals anyway?
Are we supposed to stop calling out racism and bigotry just because we're scared we're hurting Republicans' feelings?
Thanks but no.
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whoknew
Footballguy
Yea. 60% of white people voted for Trump and 8% of black people.
"Damn blacks need to get out the vote!"
Ridiculous blame shifting.
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Workhorse
Footballguy
There isn't any logic, leftist or otherwise in any of this. I count at least four logical fallacies in these first two sentences. Quite an accomplishment.
timschochet
Footballguy
In some ways it did. The election of Richard Nixon was a direct result of the public disgust over the protests of the time.
But there is a very significant difference between the protests of those days and the ones we see now: they had specific goals back then: equal voting rights. End segregation. End the Vietnam War. Black Lives Matter wants an end to police mistreatment of blacks which is a much more nebulous goal.
msommer
Footballguy
And surprisngly in other ways it didn't.
Perhaps BLM is not the defining movement of race equality in the US. Perhaps we'll see something more compelling as time passes.
whoknew
Footballguy
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Also ignores the fact that at least two very close swing states (Wisconsin and NC) had recently imposed new voting laws- and administration of those laws- that disproportionately impact black voter turnout.
Weebs210
Footballguy
Grace Under Pressure
Footballguy
There's a difference between percentages and volume. Look at how Milwaukee played out as an example. Sure, she won 90% there. But the volume numbers were far down vs. 2012, and she lost Wisconsin by a hair. I vote "liberal" in many cases to support minority rights. My point is there's only so many like that out there. GOTV volume is absolutely critical for supporting minority rights, it's a fact of numbers, not ideology.
Skoo
Footballguy
fatguyinalittlecoat
Footballguy
Another significant difference is that back then everyone read the same newspapers and watched the same news.
Arsenal of Doom
Footballguy
It's only going to get harder too. The difficulty getting turnout in mid-term elections has had a disastrous effect on state and local government, and that is turning into a problem at the national level because of Republican gerrymandering and voter suppression tactics. If Democrats are going to turn to around they really need to bootstrap it up in 2018.
squistion
Footballguy
Not really. Campaign Zero is not a BLM plan or proposal. It was an offshoot started by some Ferguson activists associated with BLM, but its plan has not been officially adopted by the BLM organization. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campaign_Zero
On the BLM site, only one mention of Campaign Zero:
http://blacklivesmatter.com/11-major-misconceptions-about-the-black-lives-matter-movement/
Steeler
Footballguy
The Commish
Footballguy
No it doesn't....but neither does belittling black people by referring to them as "the little guy"...it's condescending and disrespectful
Statorama
Footballguy
SameSongNDance
Footballguy
Look, Trump supporters are not a monolith. They are a diverse group of people. You have..
This is a joke.
- small government racists
- (unwittingly) big government racists
- anti-ACA racists
- strict constitutionalist racists
- protectionist racists
- isolationist racists
- anti-immigration racists
- pro-life racists
- anti-vax racists
- climate change denying racists
This is a joke.
Ksquared
Footballguy
I liked this....since you see the fallacies in this, please look in the mirror on the other issues being talked about.
Statorama
Footballguy
knowledge dropper
Footballguy
The immediate financial collapse of America scare tactic didn't work so you throw out the old race card. Very predictable.
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
You know, maybe its me, but if people were wondering if I were racist, I probably wouldn't nominate Jeff Sessions to be my Attorney General. Way to steer into the skid, Donald.
IMPORTANT NOTE FOR THE STAT TEST: Sessions has not, however, as far as I know, lynched anyone or burned any crosses. He's called an African American who was an AUSA "boy" but no lynching.
IMPORTANT NOTE FOR THE STAT TEST: Sessions has not, however, as far as I know, lynched anyone or burned any crosses. He's called an African American who was an AUSA "boy" but no lynching.
Flying Spaghetti Monster
Footballguy
In January 1985, Jefferson Beauregard Sessions III, the 39-year-old US Attorney for the Southern District of Alabama, charged Turner, his wife Evelyn and Hogue with 29 counts of mail fraud, altering absentee ballots and conspiracy to vote more than once. They faced over one hundred years in jail on criminal charges and felony statutes under the VRA – provisions of the law that had scarcely been used to prosecute the white officials who had disenfranchised blacks for so many years. The Turners and Hogue became known as the Marion Three. (This story is best told in Lani Guinier’s book Lift Every Voice.)
The trial was held in Selma, of all places. The jury of seven blacks and five whites deliberated for less than three hours before returning a not guilty verdict on all counts.
Four months later, the Reagan Administration, to the astonishment of civil rights supporters, nominated Sessions for a federal judgeship on the District Court of Alabama. “Mr. Sessions role in the voting fraud case in Alabama alone should bar him from sitting on the bench,” Ted Kennedy said.
Albert Turner’s brother flew to Washington from Perry County to oppose Sessions. In a highly unusual move, attorneys from the Justice Department’s Civil Rights Division also testified against him. Gerry Hebert, who worked in the DOJ’s Voting Section, told Congress that Sessions had called the NAACP and ACLU “Communist-inspired” and “un-American,” and labeled the white civil rights lawyer Jim Blacksher “a disgrace to his race.” Thomas Figures, a black assistant US attorney in Mobile, said that Sessions had repeatedly referred to him as “boy.” Figures said he heard from colleagues that Sessions “used to think [the KKK] were OK” until he learned that were “pot smokers.” Sessions admitted to calling the VRA a “piece of intrusive legislation.
Source https://www.thenation.com/article/jeff-sessions-trumps-pick-for-attorney-general-is-a-fierce-opponent-of-civil-rights/
msommer
Footballguy
Henry Ford
Footballguy
I have some serious issues with a number of the statements in the article in the original post. In particular, equating the number of members of the KKK (not even including the LWK) with the number of white nationalists in this country is absurd, the number of "members" of the altright cannot be determined by the number of people who have registered accounts on /r/altright, and stormfront had 300,000 members at peak within the last few years. That's just off the top of my head. It's also worth noting that there was an 18% increase in the number of KKK chapters in this country in the last year.
Furthermore, a graph depicting the prevalence of strong racist tendencies that ends in the late 90s and somehow believes it "presumably remains" in that level today is ridiculous. That's 20 years ago, for those counting, and the number of hate groups and white nationalist/separatist groups and group members changed significantly under President Obama. And not for the better. Those graphs also tell a story that is very important right now. If they even stayed at the 1999 levels, we're talking about roughly 4-5% of the population would not vote for a black candidate of his/her party if qualified. That sounds like a really small number, until you consider that there are about 218MM registered voters in this country. That's roughly eleven million people holding that view. Which, compared to 1996 numbers, would be an increase of around a million people, despite static percentages. It is unlikely that those people voted for Clinton. Consider as well the links inside that article - by 2012 the number was 4% according to the same polling (but not included on graph.) 2016, that number was 7%. It nearly doubled in four years leading up to this election. And again, if those numbers are correct you're talking about over fifteen million people.
That said, true, members of identifiable hate groups do not make up the majority of Trump's supporters. But they make up a very vocal segment, and they're being used intentionally by the administration (particularly, in my opinion, Bannon) with full knowledge of what makes those groups tick. I do not believe that Trump is a "true believer" in any way. I don't believe Stephen Bannon is, either. But they are using racial animus (and religious, and orientation, and misogyny) in order to create a new coalition in the manner of Nixon's, only more reactionary and, in many ways, more intellectually capable and focused. The alt right began as a group of free speech ideologues who expressed that freedom through statements considered unacceptable to polite society, which made it a haven for white nationalists, neo nazis, and other bigoted organizations, to the point where they have strong control over the movement behind Richard Spencer of the National Policy Institute.
Anyone claiming Trump is Hitler is reaching. Anyone who isn't at all concerned about Bannon or the alt right movement is missing what's going on.
Furthermore, a graph depicting the prevalence of strong racist tendencies that ends in the late 90s and somehow believes it "presumably remains" in that level today is ridiculous. That's 20 years ago, for those counting, and the number of hate groups and white nationalist/separatist groups and group members changed significantly under President Obama. And not for the better. Those graphs also tell a story that is very important right now. If they even stayed at the 1999 levels, we're talking about roughly 4-5% of the population would not vote for a black candidate of his/her party if qualified. That sounds like a really small number, until you consider that there are about 218MM registered voters in this country. That's roughly eleven million people holding that view. Which, compared to 1996 numbers, would be an increase of around a million people, despite static percentages. It is unlikely that those people voted for Clinton. Consider as well the links inside that article - by 2012 the number was 4% according to the same polling (but not included on graph.) 2016, that number was 7%. It nearly doubled in four years leading up to this election. And again, if those numbers are correct you're talking about over fifteen million people.
That said, true, members of identifiable hate groups do not make up the majority of Trump's supporters. But they make up a very vocal segment, and they're being used intentionally by the administration (particularly, in my opinion, Bannon) with full knowledge of what makes those groups tick. I do not believe that Trump is a "true believer" in any way. I don't believe Stephen Bannon is, either. But they are using racial animus (and religious, and orientation, and misogyny) in order to create a new coalition in the manner of Nixon's, only more reactionary and, in many ways, more intellectually capable and focused. The alt right began as a group of free speech ideologues who expressed that freedom through statements considered unacceptable to polite society, which made it a haven for white nationalists, neo nazis, and other bigoted organizations, to the point where they have strong control over the movement behind Richard Spencer of the National Policy Institute.
Anyone claiming Trump is Hitler is reaching. Anyone who isn't at all concerned about Bannon or the alt right movement is missing what's going on.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Yes. It's a phrase coined by Spencer to describe this new movement. And you should read up on it. It's a loose conglomeration of new right movements, including (perhaps at this point especially) those who espouse a very clear white nationalist message and want to establish a protected white European state as a haven for what they're calling a global white minority that they believe is threatened in the coming century.
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