U.S. Ambassador to Libya Killed in Rocket Attack (2 Viewers)

[jamny]

Leave Charles alone!

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

I don't get how the NYT article is being used as support on the left. It doesn't dispute the fact that there were warnings for months previous to the attack on Western targets in the region. It shows that while there were protests related to the video, the actual attack was organized by, maybe not Al Qaeda, but Ansar al-Sharia. They even say it wasn't spontaneous. If anything it shows a continued lack of knowledge about the different groups in the area. Too many people are hung up on the name Al Qaeda as if it's one all-encompassing entity.

I've never been on the conspiracy bandwagon here. I'm still just waiting to see who they hold accountable for this since it was promised that our government was doing everything in it's power to capture and bring them to justice.

Yeah, these are the main takeaways from the article for me:

Mr. Abu Khattala, who denies participating in the attack, was firmly embedded in the network of Benghazi militias before and afterward. Many other Islamist leaders consider him an erratic extremist. But he was never more than a step removed from the most influential commanders who dominated Benghazi and who befriended the Americans. They were his neighbors, his fellow inmates and his comrades on the front lines in the fight against Colonel Qaddafi.
To this day, some militia leaders offer alibis for Mr. Abu Khattala. All resist quiet American pressure to turn him over to face prosecution. Last spring, one of Libya’s most influential militia leaders sought to make him a kind of local judge.
Fifteen months after Mr. Stevens’s death, the question of responsibility remains a searing issue in Washington, framed by two contradictory story lines.

One has it that the video, which was posted on YouTube, inspired spontaneous street protests that got out of hand. This version, based on early intelligence reports, was initially offered publicly by Susan E. Rice, who is now Mr. Obama’s national security adviser.
The other, favored by Republicans, holds that Mr. Stevens died in a carefully planned assault by Al Qaeda to mark the anniversary of its strike on the United States 11 years before. Republicans have accused the Obama administration of covering up evidence of Al Qaeda’s role to avoid undermining the president’s claim that the group has been decimated, in part because of the raid that killed Osama bin Laden.

The investigation by The Times shows that the reality in Benghazi was different, and murkier, than either of those story lines suggests.

There's some editorialization between the facts here.

So Khattal was the culprit and his hatred for the USA had nothing to do with the stupid video. He was determined to destroy the USA before, during and apparently now after the attacks.

All we seem to have now that we didn't before is the name of the culprit. Why the administration would never tell us this we have no idea.

 

[timschochet]

Here's some: National Review. American Spectator, Victor Davis Hanson, Krauthammer. Washington Examiner.

I do TRY and read the lefty garbage to see if they make ANY sense on the specific issue I'm reading, but most of the time it's nothing but Obama platitudes, misdirection and half-truths.

How many of those sources that you cite even pretend to offer news rather than opinion?

 

[timschochet]

OK Max. I'm ready to be educated. Since you don't consider the New York Times to be a credible source of objective news, please list the sources that you do consider to be credible and objective.

Serious question here. As someone who doesn't really read the news that much anymore, I actually have no idea what are the left or right leaning news sources currently. Is there still such a thing as unbiased news sources? And if so, what are the main ones?

Yes. The New York Times. The Washington Post. CNN.

 

[jamny]

Tunisia sees Islamist militants exploiting Libya chaos(Reuters) - Tunisia's Prime Minister Ali Larayedh said Islamist militants are exploiting anarchy in neighboring Libya to get training and smuggle weapons across North Africa's porous borders.

His coalition government is grappling with an Islamist militant group known as Ansar al-Sharia, which is one of the most radical to emerge since Tunisia's 2011 uprising against autocratic President Zine al-Abidine Ben Ali Ben Ali.

Security is a sensitive matter for Larayedh's ruling moderate Islamist party, Ennahda, which has agreed to step down in three weeks to end months of unrest set off by the assassination of two secular leaders by Islamist militants.

As well as Ansar al-Sharia, North Africa is home to al Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb and other Islamist militants such as those led by veteran commander Mokhtar Belmokhtar, who claimed responsibility for the attack on Algeria's Amenas gas plant in January, in which nearly 40 foreign workers were killed.

France's military campaign to oust al Qaeda-linked Islamist fighters from Mali this year prompted some to enter southern Libya, where the government in Tripoli exerts scant control.

"There is a relation between leaders of Ansar al-Sharia, al Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb and Ansar al-Sharia in Libya. We are coordinating with our neighbors over that," Larayedh, who was interior minister before becoming premier, told Reuters.

"Extremists in Tunisia have profited from the situation in Libya and they get their weapons from Libya. They have benefited and they have gotten training in Libya."

Larayedh, who spent more than a decade in prison for being a member of a banned Islamist party before the uprising, was speaking shortly after Tunisian forces killed 10 members of Ansar al-Sharia near Goubellat close to the Algerian border.

Tunisian authorities said gunmen had attacked two police patrols in the north of the country and had been planning assaults on security force buildings and the military.

It was the worst violence in Tunisia since Larayedh's government declared Ansar al-Sharia a terrorist organization two months ago, accusing it of assassinating Chokri Belaid and Mohamed Brahmi, two secular opposition leaders.

Ansar al-Sharia's leader in Tunisia is a former al Qaeda fighter in Afghanistan, who is accused of inciting his followers to attack the U.S. embassy compound in Tunis a year ago.

"We are chasing down the last members of this group Ansar al-Sharia. We are advancing in this war," Larayedh said in an interview at his presidential office in Tunis.

He said more than 300 members of the organization had been arrested since the crackdown began.

Tunisian forces have been bombarding Islamist militants in the Chaambi mountains near Algeria. The militants, who holed up there after the French offensive in Mali, killed eight soldiers in Chaambi in July, some of whom had their throats slashed.

STICKY POLITICAL TRANSITION

Tunisia, where a series of Arab uprisings began in 2011, had been seen as a regional model, and its transition to democracy remains less violent than those in Egypt and Libya.

But Islamists, who were long oppressed under Ben Ali, have gained influence, fuelling debate about the role of political Islam in one of the Muslim world's most secular countries and one with the strongest ties to Europe.

Salafi Islamists have prevented concerts and plays being staged in some cities, and attacked alcohol vendors, saying they violated Islamic principles. For secular Tunisians, Islamists want to impose strict Sharia or Islamic law, which they feel threatens liberal education and women's rights.

Ennahda itself is split between conservatives and moderates.

Critics of Larayedh, a quietly-spoken man with glasses and a small moustache, say he is an uncompromising hardliner. But the former maritime engineer has taken some conciliatory steps, appointing political independents to major cabinet posts when he took office in February.

Ennahda's chairman, Rached Ghannouchi, who spent many years in exile in Britain, has long promoted a moderate form of political Islam which he says can work with modern democracy.

Ennahda won 40 percent in Tunisia's first post-revolt election for an assembly to draft a new constitution. It formed an interim coalition government with two secular parties.

But the political transition was knocked off track by the assassination of the two opposition leaders, which enraged those who believed Ennahda was too lenient on Salafi Islamists blamed for those killings and other attacks on secular Tunisians.

Now Ennahda has agreed that the government it leads will step down after three weeks of talks that start on Wednesday to form a caretaker government, set up an electoral commission and decide on a date for elections to put the country back on track.

"The government is ready to give up power in three weeks from the start of the talks. I am ready to give up my post even before the three weeks," said Larayedh.

Ennahda was one of the first Islamist parties to rise to power in the region after 2011, when many of its leaders gained government posts after years in jail or overseas exile.

Although its popularity has eroded during its period in power, Ennahda remains the best organized political movement in Tunisia. It faces several leftist and secular groups, as well as Nida Tounes, a party that includes figures from the Ben Ali era.

"This is a not a loss, more a part of the transition," Larayedh said of the government's resignation. "What our country needs is stability."

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

OK Max. I'm ready to be educated. Since you don't consider the New York Times to be a credible source of objective news, please list the sources that you do consider to be credible and objective.

Serious question here. As someone who doesn't really read the news that much anymore, I actually have no idea what are the left or right leaning news sources currently. Is there still such a thing as unbiased news sources? And if so, what are the main ones?

Yes. The New York Times. The Washington Post. CNN.

I'm going to say the WaPo and NYT have provided an outlet for convenient leaks for this administration (and even the last one).

 

[jamny]

I don't get how the NYT article is being used as support on the left. It doesn't dispute the fact that there were warnings for months previous to the attack on Western targets in the region. It shows that while there were protests related to the video, the actual attack was organized by, maybe not Al Qaeda, but Ansar al-Sharia. They even say it wasn't spontaneous. If anything it shows a continued lack of knowledge about the different groups in the area. Too many people are hung up on the name Al Qaeda as if it's one all-encompassing entity.

I've never been on the conspiracy bandwagon here. I'm still just waiting to see who they hold accountable for this since it was promised that our government was doing everything in it's power to capture and bring them to justice.

The point is that conseevatives have been arguing for months that the attacks had nothing to do with that video- the YouTube video was used by the Obama administration to cover up either incompetence or a deliberate crime. Bow we come to learn that it really did have to do with video all along? What an embarrassment.My prediction is this is the last you'll hear about Benghazi from conservatives. After all like Max said, they've got Obamacare to talk about now. So they'll just pretentious this faux scandal never happened.

How does that article prove anything?

The article seems to support the view that it wasn't the video that caused it. It might have been used as cover but quite a few details in the NYT article seems to support an organized attack.

 

[TheIronSheik]

OK Max. I'm ready to be educated. Since you don't consider the New York Times to be a credible source of objective news, please list the sources that you do consider to be credible and objective.

Serious question here. As someone who doesn't really read the news that much anymore, I actually have no idea what are the left or right leaning news sources currently. Is there still such a thing as unbiased news sources? And if so, what are the main ones?

Yes. The New York Times. The Washington Post. CNN.

CNN is my main news source. I think the fact that I've seen people on both sides complain that it's biased to the other side means it's a pretty good source for fair reporting. For some reason I thought TWP was biased one way. Maybe I'm thinking of something else.

Appreciate the response, though.

 

[jamny]

It's funny how a good portion of that article comes from one they wrote over a year ago

I guess that one didn't get enough exposure. Good idea to throw in "video was responsible" and "no Al Qaeda link" to get it out there more. Even if it proves neither of those.

 

[jamny]

It's funny how a good portion of that article comes from one they wrote over a year ago

I guess that one didn't get enough exposure. Good idea to throw in "video was responsible" and "no Al Qaeda link" to get it out there more. Even if it proves neither of those.

This guy has been writing articles since the day of the attack, blaming it on the video. I doubt he approached this newest article with an open mind throughout. You'd figure by now he'd find some real proof though.

 

[tommyGunZ]

Just so we're clear, you don't believe the NYTime Cairo bureau chief jamny? It's your opinion that he's lying, making stuff up, or at worst, a part of the conspiracy?

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

It's funny how a good portion of that article comes from one they wrote over a year ago

I guess that one didn't get enough exposure. Good idea to throw in "video was responsible" and "no Al Qaeda link" to get it out there more. Even if it proves neither of those.

This guy has been writing articles since the day of the attack, blaming it on the video. I doubt he approached this newest article with an open mind throughout. You'd figure by now he'd find some real proof though.

You're kidding me.

It's the same guy who keeps trying to worm a way back to defend his original terrible reporting. Hilarious, so much for journalistic independence, they should have had someone else go back and tackle this.... but that would have just resulted in them having to admit they were the ones who got it wrong in the first place.

 

[jamny]

Just so we're clear, you don't believe the NYTime Cairo bureau chief jamny? It's your opinion that he's lying, making stuff up, or at worst, a part of the conspiracy?

None of the above.

I think he probably really believes that the video was the root cause of the attack and approaches his article with that mindset. It's easier to look deeper into something you believe than something you don't. We're all guilty of that.

 

[tommyGunZ]

Just so we're clear, you don't believe the NYTime Cairo bureau chief jamny? It's your opinion that he's lying, making stuff up, or at worst, a part of the conspiracy?

None of the above.

I think he probably really believes that the video was the root cause of the attack and approaches his article with that mindset. It's easier to look deeper into something you believe than something you don't. We're all guilty of that.

So you think he honestly believes his reporting, you just believe it's not accurate?

 

[jamny]

Just so we're clear, you don't believe the NYTime Cairo bureau chief jamny? It's your opinion that he's lying, making stuff up, or at worst, a part of the conspiracy?

None of the above.

I think he probably really believes that the video was the root cause of the attack and approaches his article with that mindset. It's easier to look deeper into something you believe than something you don't. We're all guilty of that.

So you think he honestly believes his reporting, you just believe it's not accurate?

I have no idea if it's accurate or not. He did nothing to prove that it was directly started because of the video. If anything, I think he bolstered the opposite opinion.

 

[jamny]

And again, I don't care if it was the video that kickstarted the organized attack or the other way around. It was a terrorist attack that we've yet to hold anyone responsible for.

 

[Dr Oadi]

Max Nutjob turns the Benghazi thread into a Obamacare bashing party.

Doctor Coward responds with more nonsense. Get a life, loser, and stop stalking me around the forums. Go back to your bestiality hobby.

Ok I have to ask.....

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Max Nutjob turns the Benghazi thread into a Obamacare bashing party.

Doctor Coward responds with more nonsense. Get a life, loser, and stop stalking me around the forums. Go back to your bestiality hobby.

Ok I have to ask.....

Female sheep have the same genitalia as human broads do.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

And again, I don't care if it was the video that kickstarted the organized attack or the other way around. It was a terrorist attack that we've yet to hold anyone responsible for.

Although Mr. Abu Khattala said he was not a member of Al Qaeda, he declared he would be proud to be associated with Al Qaeda’s puritanical zeal for Islamic law. And he said that the United States had its own foreign policy to blame for the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001. “Why is the United States always trying to impose its ideology on everyone else?” he asked. “Why is it always trying to use force to implement its agendas?”

Witnesses, Benghazi residents and Western news reports, including those in The New York Times, have described Mr. Abu Khattala as a leader of Ansar al-Shariah, whose trucks and fighters were seen attacking the mission. Mr. Abu Khattala praised the group’s members as “good people with good goals, which are trying to implement Islamic law,” and he insisted their network of popular support was vastly underestimated by other brigade leaders who said the group had fewer than 200 fighters.

“It is bigger than a brigade,” he said. “It is a movement.”

Mr. Abu Khattala said he was close to the group but was not an official part of it. Instead, he said, he was still the commander of an Islamist brigade, Abu Obaida ibn al-Jarrah. Some of its members joined Ansar al-Shariah, but Mr. Abu Khattala said that even though his brigade had disbanded he could still call it together. “If the individuals are there, the brigade is there,” he said.

During the revolt, the brigade was accused of killing a top general who had defected to the rebels, Abdul Fattah Younes. Mr. Abu Khatalla acknowledged that the general had died in the brigade headquarters, but declined to discuss it further.

Almost all Libyans are Muslims, alcohol is banned, polygamy is legal, almost every woman wears an Islamic head-covering. But all of that still fell short, he said, of true Islamic law.

At 8:30 p.m., British diplomats dropped off their vehicles and weapons before flying back to Tripoli. At 9:42 p.m., according to American officials who have viewed the security camera footage, a police vehicle stationed outside turned on its ignition and drove slowly away.A moment later a solitary figure strolled by the main gate, kicking pebbles and looking around — a final once-over, according to the officials.

The attack began with just a few dozen fighters, according to those officials. The invaders fired their Kalashnikovs at the lights around the gate and broke through with ease.

Witnesses at the scene of the attack identified many participants associated with Ansar al-Shariah. Mr. Abu Khattala’s presence and leadership were evident. He initially hung back, standing near the crowd at Venezia Road, several witnesses said. But a procession of fighters hurried to him out of the smoke and gunfire, addressed him as “sheikh” and then gave him reports or took his orders before plunging back into the compound.

"Security vacuum,” Ambassador Stevens wrote in his personal diary on Sept. 6 in Tripoli, in one of the few pages recovered from the Benghazi compound.

“Militias are power on the ground,” he wrote. “Dicey conditions, including car bombs, attacks on consulate,” he continued. “Islamist ‘hit list’ in Benghazi. Me targeted on a prominent website (no more off compound jogging).” A map of his Tripoli jogging route had appeared on the Internet, seemingly inviting attacks, diplomats said.

Really, it's still a mystery where the video allegation comes from. No protest, the attack began when a few dozen fighters showed up with AK's.

Where's any discussion of a protest about the video?

The difference is in a spontaneous protest about a video as opposed to a purposeful, planned terrorist attack that later claimed the video as a pretext. They can say whatever they want, and they could then at the scene as well, but the fact is this was a terrorist attack, not some protest that spun out of control.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmodVun16Q4&feature=youtu.be&bpctr=1388449907

http://www.nytimes.com/projects/2013/benghazi/?ref=daviddkirkpatrick#/?chapt=0

 

[tommyGunZ]

Just so we're clear, you don't believe the NYTime Cairo bureau chief jamny? It's your opinion that he's lying, making stuff up, or at worst, a part of the conspiracy?

None of the above.

I think he probably really believes that the video was the root cause of the attack and approaches his article with that mindset. It's easier to look deeper into something you believe than something you don't. We're all guilty of that.

So you think he honestly believes his reporting, you just believe it's not accurate?

I have no idea if it's accurate or not. He did nothing to prove that it was directly started because of the video. If anything, I think he bolstered the opposite opinion.

I think anyone reading that piece with an objective viewpoint would suggest that the piece destroyed the conspiracy theory narrative. Susan Rice wasn't making up the story about the video for political reasons.

And again, I don't care if it was the video that kickstarted the organized attack or the other way around. It was a terrorist attack that we've yet to hold anyone responsible for.

You've mentioned that a couple of times, but if you go back through your posts in this thread, you seem quick to criticize almost every action by the administration while always deferring to the conspiracy theorists. Remember when you suggested Obama should suspend his presidential campaign to concentrate on this issue last fall? LOL.

Catching criminals is hard. Biggie and Tupac's killers are still on the loose a decade later, and they were shot in front of people. It's much more difficult to track down murderers in a place like Benghazi, where we've packed up and left as far as I know. We're doing everything remotely and clandestinely, correct?

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Just so we're clear, you don't believe the NYTime Cairo bureau chief jamny? It's your opinion that he's lying, making stuff up, or at worst, a part of the conspiracy?

...

I think anyone reading that piece with an objective viewpoint would suggest that the piece destroyed the conspiracy theory narrative. Susan Rice wasn't making up the story about the video for political reasons.

...

This is/was what Rice said:

“What happened in Benghazi was in fact initially a spontaneous reaction to what had just transpired hours before in Cairo,” she said on NBC’s “Meet the Press,” “almost a copycat of the demonstrations against our facility in Cairo, prompted by the video.”

Nowhere in this article is there anything about a spontaneous protest arising.

Nowhere.

 

[squistion]

Just so we're clear, you don't believe the NYTime Cairo bureau chief jamny? It's your opinion that he's lying, making stuff up, or at worst, a part of the conspiracy?

...

I think anyone reading that piece with an objective viewpoint would suggest that the piece destroyed the conspiracy theory narrative. Susan Rice wasn't making up the story about the video for political reasons.

...

This is/was what Rice said:

“What happened in Benghazi was in fact initially a spontaneous reaction to what had just transpired hours before in Cairo,” she said on NBC’s “Meet the Press,” “almost a copycat of the demonstrations against our facility in Cairo, prompted by the video.”

Nowhere in this article is there anything about a spontaneous protest arising.

Nowhere.

Of course not. That was the information that Rice was given at the time from official sources that she and the administration believed to be true. Are you suggesting that Rice (or anyone else) is still standing by statement today? She went with what they believed at that point in time.

 

[jamny]

And again, I don't care if it was the video that kickstarted the organized attack or the other way around. It was a terrorist attack that we've yet to hold anyone responsible for.

You've mentioned that a couple of times, but if you go back through your posts in this thread, you seem quick to criticize almost every action by the administration while always deferring to the conspiracy theorists. Remember when you suggested Obama should suspend his presidential campaign to concentrate on this issue last fall? LOL.

I don't believe in a conspiracy. I just think it was handled poorly before, during and after. Hopefully the criticism from people will result in being more prepared the next time. And my biggest complaint at the time was that Obama went on Letterman and partied with JayZ and Beyonce only days after the event. I said it might have been better to take off from that part of his campaign to focus on the attack.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Just so we're clear, you don't believe the NYTime Cairo bureau chief jamny? It's your opinion that he's lying, making stuff up, or at worst, a part of the conspiracy?

...

I think anyone reading that piece with an objective viewpoint would suggest that the piece destroyed the conspiracy theory narrative. Susan Rice wasn't making up the story about the video for political reasons.

...

This is/was what Rice said:

“What happened in Benghazi was in fact initially a spontaneous reaction to what had just transpired hours before in Cairo,” she said on NBC’s “Meet the Press,” “almost a copycat of the demonstrations against our facility in Cairo, prompted by the video.”

Nowhere in this article is there anything about a spontaneous protest arising.

Nowhere.

Of course not. That was the information that Rice was given at the time from official sources that she and the administration believed to be true. Are you suggesting that Rice (or anyone else) is still standing by statement today? She went with what they believed at that point in time.

I don't think people doubt that Rice believed what she said, I think the questions have to do with why did they send out Rice, who had no involvement with the situation as opposed to a state department official, and when did they figure out it was a terrorist attack vs how much longer did they keep pushing the "spontaneous" meme.

 

[pantherclub]

And again, I don't care if it was the video that kickstarted the organized attack or the other way around. It was a terrorist attack that we've yet to hold anyone responsible for.

You've mentioned that a couple of times, but if you go back through your posts in this thread, you seem quick to criticize almost every action by the administration while always deferring to the conspiracy theorists. Remember when you suggested Obama should suspend his presidential campaign to concentrate on this issue last fall? LOL.

I don't believe in a conspiracy. I just think it was handled poorly before, during and after. Hopefully the criticism from people will result in being more prepared the next time. And my biggest complaint at the time was that Obama went on Letterman and partied with JayZ and Beyonce only days after the event. I said it might have been better to take off from that part of his campaign to focus on the attack.

And there it is.

 

[timschochet]

And again, I don't care if it was the video that kickstarted the organized attack or the other way around. It was a terrorist attack that we've yet to hold anyone responsible for.

You've mentioned that a couple of times, but if you go back through your posts in this thread, you seem quick to criticize almost every action by the administration while always deferring to the conspiracy theorists. Remember when you suggested Obama should suspend his presidential campaign to concentrate on this issue last fall? LOL.

I don't believe in a conspiracy. I just think it was handled poorly before, during and after. Hopefully the criticism from people will result in being more prepared the next time. And my biggest complaint at the time was that Obama went on Letterman and partied with JayZ and Beyonce only days after the event. I said it might have been better to take off from that part of his campaign to focus on the attack.

Bet you any amount of money this is the exact line we will hear from 80% of conservatives over the next few days- we never believed in a conspiracy, but it was incompetence and they were ill-prepared. The other 20% will listen to Glen Beck, read World News Daily, and still insist upon conspiracy.

None of them will admit they were wrong.

 

[tommyGunZ]

And again, I don't care if it was the video that kickstarted the organized attack or the other way around. It was a terrorist attack that we've yet to hold anyone responsible for.

You've mentioned that a couple of times, but if you go back through your posts in this thread, you seem quick to criticize almost every action by the administration while always deferring to the conspiracy theorists. Remember when you suggested Obama should suspend his presidential campaign to concentrate on this issue last fall? LOL.

I don't believe in a conspiracy. I just think it was handled poorly before, during and after. Hopefully the criticism from people will result in being more prepared the next time. And my biggest complaint at the time was that Obama went on Letterman and partied with JayZ and Beyonce only days after the event. I said it might have been better to take off from that part of his campaign to focus on the attack.

Bet you any amount of money this is the exact line we will hear from 80% of conservatives over the next few days- we never believed in a conspiracy, but it was incompetence and they were ill-prepared. The other 20% will listen to Glen Beck, read World News Daily, and still insist upon conspiracy.

None of them will admit they were wrong.

Yep. You nailed it tim.

 

[jamny]

And again, I don't care if it was the video that kickstarted the organized attack or the other way around. It was a terrorist attack that we've yet to hold anyone responsible for.

You've mentioned that a couple of times, but if you go back through your posts in this thread, you seem quick to criticize almost every action by the administration while always deferring to the conspiracy theorists. Remember when you suggested Obama should suspend his presidential campaign to concentrate on this issue last fall? LOL.

I don't believe in a conspiracy. I just think it was handled poorly before, during and after. Hopefully the criticism from people will result in being more prepared the next time. And my biggest complaint at the time was that Obama went on Letterman and partied with JayZ and Beyonce only days after the event. I said it might have been better to take off from that part of his campaign to focus on the attack.

Bet you any amount of money this is the exact line we will hear from 80% of conservatives over the next few days- we never believed in a conspiracy, but it was incompetence and they were ill-prepared. The other 20% will listen to Glen Beck, read World News Daily, and still insist upon conspiracy.

None of them will admit they were wrong.

I never said incompetence, I said handled poorly. Hopefully mistakes will be learned from for any future incident. Every terrorist attack can be criticised with hindsight. Let's get past the finger pointing and move forward and arrest those responsible. I think I've been fairly consistant since day one and have no reason to admit to being wrong.

 

[timschochet]

And again, I don't care if it was the video that kickstarted the organized attack or the other way around. It was a terrorist attack that we've yet to hold anyone responsible for.

You've mentioned that a couple of times, but if you go back through your posts in this thread, you seem quick to criticize almost every action by the administration while always deferring to the conspiracy theorists. Remember when you suggested Obama should suspend his presidential campaign to concentrate on this issue last fall? LOL.

I don't believe in a conspiracy. I just think it was handled poorly before, during and after. Hopefully the criticism from people will result in being more prepared the next time. And my biggest complaint at the time was that Obama went on Letterman and partied with JayZ and Beyonce only days after the event. I said it might have been better to take off from that part of his campaign to focus on the attack.

Bet you any amount of money this is the exact line we will hear from 80% of conservatives over the next few days- we never believed in a conspiracy, but it was incompetence and they were ill-prepared. The other 20% will listen to Glen Beck, read World News Daily, and still insist upon conspiracy.

None of them will admit they were wrong.

I never said incompetence, I said handled poorly. Hopefully mistakes will be learned from for any future incident. Every terrorist attack can be criticised with hindsight. Let's get past the finger pointing and move forward and arrest those responsible. I think I've been fairly consistant since day one and have no reason to admit to being wrong.

I don't remember what you wrote but I will take your word for it. My comments were not addressed toward you, but conservatives in general.

 

[squistion]

And again, I don't care if it was the video that kickstarted the organized attack or the other way around. It was a terrorist attack that we've yet to hold anyone responsible for.

You've mentioned that a couple of times, but if you go back through your posts in this thread, you seem quick to criticize almost every action by the administration while always deferring to the conspiracy theorists. Remember when you suggested Obama should suspend his presidential campaign to concentrate on this issue last fall? LOL.

I don't believe in a conspiracy. I just think it was handled poorly before, during and after. Hopefully the criticism from people will result in being more prepared the next time. And my biggest complaint at the time was that Obama went on Letterman and partied with JayZ and Beyonce only days after the event. I said it might have been better to take off from that part of his campaign to focus on the attack.

Bet you any amount of money this is the exact line we will hear from 80% of conservatives over the next few days- we never believed in a conspiracy, but it was incompetence and they were ill-prepared. The other 20% will listen to Glen Beck, read World News Daily, and still insist upon conspiracy.

None of them will admit they were wrong.

I never said incompetence, I said handled poorly. Hopefully mistakes will be learned from for any future incident. Every terrorist attack can be criticised with hindsight. Let's get past the finger pointing and move forward and arrest those responsible. I think I've been fairly consistant since day one and have no reason to admit to being wrong.

If you really believed that you wouldn't have dissed Obama for appearing on Letterman. Don't start with finger pointing and then disingenuously ask people to move past it.

 

[jamny]

And again, I don't care if it was the video that kickstarted the organized attack or the other way around. It was a terrorist attack that we've yet to hold anyone responsible for.

You've mentioned that a couple of times, but if you go back through your posts in this thread, you seem quick to criticize almost every action by the administration while always deferring to the conspiracy theorists. Remember when you suggested Obama should suspend his presidential campaign to concentrate on this issue last fall? LOL.

I don't believe in a conspiracy. I just think it was handled poorly before, during and after. Hopefully the criticism from people will result in being more prepared the next time. And my biggest complaint at the time was that Obama went on Letterman and partied with JayZ and Beyonce only days after the event. I said it might have been better to take off from that part of his campaign to focus on the attack.

Bet you any amount of money this is the exact line we will hear from 80% of conservatives over the next few days- we never believed in a conspiracy, but it was incompetence and they were ill-prepared. The other 20% will listen to Glen Beck, read World News Daily, and still insist upon conspiracy.

None of them will admit they were wrong.

I never said incompetence, I said handled poorly. Hopefully mistakes will be learned from for any future incident. Every terrorist attack can be criticised with hindsight. Let's get past the finger pointing and move forward and arrest those responsible. I think I've been fairly consistant since day one and have no reason to admit to being wrong.

If you really believed that you wouldn't have dissed Obama for appearing on Letterman. Don't start with finger pointing and then disingenuously ask people to move past it.

I meant about how and why it happened. I have been very critical about how things have gone since then and that includes Obama's actions at the time and to this day. I don't believe the Administration is doing everything in it's power to bring them to justice.

 

[squistion]

If you really believed that you wouldn't have dissed Obama for appearing on Letterman. Don't start with finger pointing and then disingenuously ask people to move past it.

I meant about how and why it happened. I have been very critical about how things have gone since then and that includes Obama's actions at the time and to this day. I don't believe the Administration is doing everything in it's power to bring them to justice.

Yes, and I am sure you were equally critical on this forum in regards to Bush and his failure to bring Bin Laden to justice.

 

[jamny]

If you really believed that you wouldn't have dissed Obama for appearing on Letterman. Don't start with finger pointing and then disingenuously ask people to move past it.

I meant about how and why it happened. I have been very critical about how things have gone since then and that includes Obama's actions at the time and to this day. I don't believe the Administration is doing everything in it's power to bring them to justice.

Yes, and I am sure you were equally critical on this forum in regards to Bush and his failure to bring Bin Laden to justice.

 

[tommyGunZ]

And again, I don't care if it was the video that kickstarted the organized attack or the other way around. It was a terrorist attack that we've yet to hold anyone responsible for.

You've mentioned that a couple of times, but if you go back through your posts in this thread, you seem quick to criticize almost every action by the administration while always deferring to the conspiracy theorists. Remember when you suggested Obama should suspend his presidential campaign to concentrate on this issue last fall? LOL.

I don't believe in a conspiracy. I just think it was handled poorly before, during and after. Hopefully the criticism from people will result in being more prepared the next time. And my biggest complaint at the time was that Obama went on Letterman and partied with JayZ and Beyonce only days after the event. I said it might have been better to take off from that part of his campaign to focus on the attack.

Bet you any amount of money this is the exact line we will hear from 80% of conservatives over the next few days- we never believed in a conspiracy, but it was incompetence and they were ill-prepared. The other 20% will listen to Glen Beck, read World News Daily, and still insist upon conspiracy.

None of them will admit they were wrong.

I never said incompetence, I said handled poorly. Hopefully mistakes will be learned from for any future incident. Every terrorist attack can be criticised with hindsight. Let's get past the finger pointing and move forward and arrest those responsible. I think I've been fairly consistant since day one and have no reason to admit to being wrong.

If you really believed that you wouldn't have dissed Obama for appearing on Letterman. Don't start with finger pointing and then disingenuously ask people to move past it.

I meant about how and why it happened. I have been very critical about how things have gone since then and that includes Obama's actions at the time and to this day. I don't believe the Administration is doing everything in it's power to bring them to justice.

Based on what? How in the world could you possibly know what efforts the CIA, NSA, et al. are making in regard to finding the perpetrators?

 

[jamny]

And again, I don't care if it was the video that kickstarted the organized attack or the other way around. It was a terrorist attack that we've yet to hold anyone responsible for.

You've mentioned that a couple of times, but if you go back through your posts in this thread, you seem quick to criticize almost every action by the administration while always deferring to the conspiracy theorists. Remember when you suggested Obama should suspend his presidential campaign to concentrate on this issue last fall? LOL.

I don't believe in a conspiracy. I just think it was handled poorly before, during and after. Hopefully the criticism from people will result in being more prepared the next time. And my biggest complaint at the time was that Obama went on Letterman and partied with JayZ and Beyonce only days after the event. I said it might have been better to take off from that part of his campaign to focus on the attack.

Bet you any amount of money this is the exact line we will hear from 80% of conservatives over the next few days- we never believed in a conspiracy, but it was incompetence and they were ill-prepared. The other 20% will listen to Glen Beck, read World News Daily, and still insist upon conspiracy.

None of them will admit they were wrong.

I never said incompetence, I said handled poorly. Hopefully mistakes will be learned from for any future incident. Every terrorist attack can be criticised with hindsight. Let's get past the finger pointing and move forward and arrest those responsible. I think I've been fairly consistant since day one and have no reason to admit to being wrong.

If you really believed that you wouldn't have dissed Obama for appearing on Letterman. Don't start with finger pointing and then disingenuously ask people to move past it.

I meant about how and why it happened. I have been very critical about how things have gone since then and that includes Obama's actions at the time and to this day. I don't believe the Administration is doing everything in it's power to bring them to justice.

Based on what? How in the world could you possibly know what efforts the CIA, NSA, et al. are making in regard to finding the perpetrators?

Obviously I don't and I hope I'm wrong. I look forward to the day someone is convicted of the crime and the families of those killed can have some closure. Then I will admit I was wrong and thank our President for his diligence.

 

[timschochet]

And again, I don't care if it was the video that kickstarted the organized attack or the other way around. It was a terrorist attack that we've yet to hold anyone responsible for.

You've mentioned that a couple of times, but if you go back through your posts in this thread, you seem quick to criticize almost every action by the administration while always deferring to the conspiracy theorists. Remember when you suggested Obama should suspend his presidential campaign to concentrate on this issue last fall? LOL.

I don't believe in a conspiracy. I just think it was handled poorly before, during and after. Hopefully the criticism from people will result in being more prepared the next time. And my biggest complaint at the time was that Obama went on Letterman and partied with JayZ and Beyonce only days after the event. I said it might have been better to take off from that part of his campaign to focus on the attack.

Bet you any amount of money this is the exact line we will hear from 80% of conservatives over the next few days- we never believed in a conspiracy, but it was incompetence and they were ill-prepared. The other 20% will listen to Glen Beck, read World News Daily, and still insist upon conspiracy.

None of them will admit they were wrong.

I never said incompetence, I said handled poorly. Hopefully mistakes will be learned from for any future incident. Every terrorist attack can be criticised with hindsight. Let's get past the finger pointing and move forward and arrest those responsible. I think I've been fairly consistant since day one and have no reason to admit to being wrong.

If you really believed that you wouldn't have dissed Obama for appearing on Letterman. Don't start with finger pointing and then disingenuously ask people to move past it.

I meant about how and why it happened. I have been very critical about how things have gone since then and that includes Obama's actions at the time and to this day. I don't believe the Administration is doing everything in it's power to bring them to justice.

Based on what? How in the world could you possibly know what efforts the CIA, NSA, et al. are making in regard to finding the perpetrators?

This forum is chalk full of people who think they know what the NSA is up to all of the time.

 

[tommyGunZ]

Cool jamny. Just seems kind of strange - you have 102 posts in this thread, virtually every one of them critical of the Obama administration in some form, yet you deny believing any of the debunked conspiracies and admit you have no clue as to what they are doing to track down those responsible.

All you really know is that you oppose any and all things Obama administration.

Ok, I guess.

 

[Dr Oadi]

I thought they threw the YouTube guy in jail. Case closed right?

 

[jamny]

Cool jamny. Just seems kind of strange - you have 102 posts in this thread, virtually every one of them critical of the Obama administration in some form, yet you deny believing any of the debunked conspiracies and admit you have no clue as to what they are doing to track down those responsible.

All you really know is that you oppose any and all things Obama administration.

Ok, I guess.

There's been a lot of different discussions in this 62 page thread. Not all of my 102 posts are critical of Obama or even discuss Benghazi. While things could have been handled better, I don't blame the Administration for the attack. Terrorists exploit weaknesses. You will never stop them all and it's useless to point fingers after the fact. Hopefully we learned from mistakes and have improved for future events. My criticism continues to be the actions in the aftermath of the attack. Sorry if I don't believe they are doing EVERYTHING in their power to track down those responsible. I mean the lead suspect, Khattani, is sipping drinks poolside with a NY Times reporter yet we have not interviewed him yet (AFAIK) I do not see in our President a man that is persistent and diligent. Five years in, I think I'm allowed to make that judgement now. Yes, just my opinion.

I hope I'm wrong.

 

[Hilts]

OK Max. I'm ready to be educated. Since you don't consider the New York Times to be a credible source of objective news, please list the sources that you do consider to be credible and objective.

Serious question here. As someone who doesn't really read the news that much anymore, I actually have no idea what are the left or right leaning news sources currently. Is there still such a thing as unbiased news sources? And if so, what are the main ones?

PBS news hour. They give equal time to both 'sides' and overall of similar rank as well (not just liberal/conservative punching bag).

I believe BBC and Al Jazeera are both pretty good, but can't swear to it.

Pbs news hour is awesome though. Really great stuff, though it takes getting used to limited shtick, pretty effects, and borderline screaming by the anchors.

 

[tommyGunZ]

Cool jamny. Just seems kind of strange - you have 102 posts in this thread, virtually every one of them critical of the Obama administration in some form, yet you deny believing any of the debunked conspiracies and admit you have no clue as to what they are doing to track down those responsible.

All you really know is that you oppose any and all things Obama administration.

Ok, I guess.

There's been a lot of different discussions in this 62 page thread. Not all of my 102 posts are critical of Obama or even discuss Benghazi. While things could have been handled better, I don't blame the Administration for the attack. Terrorists exploit weaknesses. You will never stop them all and it's useless to point fingers after the fact. Hopefully we learned from mistakes and have improved for future events. My criticism continues to be the actions in the aftermath of the attack. Sorry if I don't believe they are doing EVERYTHING in their power to track down those responsible. I mean the lead suspect, Khattani, is sipping drinks poolside with a NY Times reporter yet we have not interviewed him yet (AFAIK) I do not see in our President a man that is persistent and diligent. Five years in, I think I'm allowed to make that judgement now. Yes, just my opinion.

I hope I'm wrong.

You do remember we got Osama on Obama's watch, right?

 

[Statorama]

Cool jamny. Just seems kind of strange - you have 102 posts in this thread, virtually every one of them critical of the Obama administration in some form, yet you deny believing any of the debunked conspiracies and admit you have no clue as to what they are doing to track down those responsible.

All you really know is that you oppose any and all things Obama administration.

Ok, I guess.

There's been a lot of different discussions in this 62 page thread. Not all of my 102 posts are critical of Obama or even discuss Benghazi. While things could have been handled better, I don't blame the Administration for the attack. Terrorists exploit weaknesses. You will never stop them all and it's useless to point fingers after the fact. Hopefully we learned from mistakes and have improved for future events. My criticism continues to be the actions in the aftermath of the attack. Sorry if I don't believe they are doing EVERYTHING in their power to track down those responsible. I mean the lead suspect, Khattani, is sipping drinks poolside with a NY Times reporter yet we have not interviewed him yet (AFAIK) I do not see in our President a man that is persistent and diligent. Five years in, I think I'm allowed to make that judgement now. Yes, just my opinion.

I hope I'm wrong.

You do remember we got Osama on Obama's watch, right?

Seventy percent of US troop fatalities in Afghanistan have happened under his watch also. So what?

 

[Statorama]

Cool jamny. Just seems kind of strange - you have 102 posts in this thread, virtually every one of them critical of the Obama administration in some form, yet you deny believing any of the debunked conspiracies and admit you have no clue as to what they are doing to track down those responsible.

All you really know is that you oppose any and all things Obama administration.

Ok, I guess.

There's been a lot of different discussions in this 62 page thread. Not all of my 102 posts are critical of Obama or even discuss Benghazi. While things could have been handled better, I don't blame the Administration for the attack. Terrorists exploit weaknesses. You will never stop them all and it's useless to point fingers after the fact. Hopefully we learned from mistakes and have improved for future events. My criticism continues to be the actions in the aftermath of the attack. Sorry if I don't believe they are doing EVERYTHING in their power to track down those responsible. I mean the lead suspect, Khattani, is sipping drinks poolside with a NY Times reporter yet we have not interviewed him yet (AFAIK) I do not see in our President a man that is persistent and diligent. Five years in, I think I'm allowed to make that judgement now. Yes, just my opinion.

I hope I'm wrong.

You do remember we got Osama on Obama's watch, right?

Seventy percent of US troop fatalities in Afghanistan have happened under his watch also. So what?

Just need to add that this is one of those reasons I hate Obama so much. Our alleged mission in Afghanistan was to catch the mastermind of the 9/11 bombings and we did it (allegedly - body was dumped at sea before a formal autopsy could be performed). How groovy would it have been to have Obama declare all the war bull crap over and have a ticker tape parade for our boys? Wouldn't that have been awesome? But Obama, like Bush before him, found that being servant to defense contractors pays VERY well. So the war goes on and Obamas pockets get fatter and our men and women keep getting killed. Wave the flag boys.

Merica.

 

[Rove!]

yep, even the NYT says this was not a spontaneous uprising and the White House tried to sell it to the American people via a bigoted meme....

 

[squistion]

Cool jamny. Just seems kind of strange - you have 102 posts in this thread, virtually every one of them critical of the Obama administration in some form, yet you deny believing any of the debunked conspiracies and admit you have no clue as to what they are doing to track down those responsible.

All you really know is that you oppose any and all things Obama administration.

Ok, I guess.

There's been a lot of different discussions in this 62 page thread. Not all of my 102 posts are critical of Obama or even discuss Benghazi. While things could have been handled better, I don't blame the Administration for the attack. Terrorists exploit weaknesses. You will never stop them all and it's useless to point fingers after the fact. Hopefully we learned from mistakes and have improved for future events. My criticism continues to be the actions in the aftermath of the attack. Sorry if I don't believe they are doing EVERYTHING in their power to track down those responsible. I mean the lead suspect, Khattani, is sipping drinks poolside with a NY Times reporter yet we have not interviewed him yet (AFAIK) I do not see in our President a man that is persistent and diligent. Five years in, I think I'm allowed to make that judgement now. Yes, just my opinion.

I hope I'm wrong.

You do remember we got Osama on Obama's watch, right?

He does, but he finds that irrelevant along with the fact that Bush was not even that interested in trying to find him:

http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/2002/11/13_Laden.html

"I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority."

- G.W. Bush, 3/13/02

"I am truly not that concerned about him."

- G.W. Bush, repsonding to a question about bin Laden's whereabouts,

3/13/02 (The New American, 4/8/02)

 

[jamny]

never fails

 

[jamny]

Q Mr. President, in your speeches now you rarely talk or mention Osama bin Laden. Why is that? Also, can you tell the American people if you have any more information, if you know if he is dead or alive? Final part -- deep in your heart, don't you truly believe that until you find out if he is dead or alive, you won't really eliminate the threat of --

THE PRESIDENT: Deep in my heart I know the man is on the run, if he's alive at all. Who knows if he's hiding in some cave or not; we haven't heard from him in a long time. And the idea of focusing on one person is -- really indicates to me people don't understand the scope of the mission.

Terror is bigger than one person. And he's just -- he's a person who's now been marginalized. His network, his host government has been destroyed. He's the ultimate parasite who found weakness, exploited it, and met his match. He is -- as I mentioned in my speech, I do mention the fact that this is a fellow who is willing to commit youngsters to their death and he, himself, tries to hide -- if, in fact, he's hiding at all.

So I don't know where he is. You know, I just don't spend that much time on him, Kelly, to be honest with you. I'm more worried about making sure that our soldiers are well-supplied; that the strategy is clear; that the coalition is strong; that when we find enemy bunched up like we did in Shahikot Mountains, that the military has all the support it needs to go in and do the job, which they did.

<snip>

Q But don't you believe that the threat that bin Laden posed won't truly be eliminated until he is found either dead or alive?

THE PRESIDENT: Well, as I say, we haven't heard much from him . . . I -- I'll repeat what I said. I truly am not that concerned about him.

Just to keep things in context.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Cool jamny. Just seems kind of strange - you have 102 posts in this thread, virtually every one of them critical of the Obama administration in some form, yet you deny believing any of the debunked conspiracies and admit you have no clue as to what they are doing to track down those responsible.

All you really know is that you oppose any and all things Obama administration.

Ok, I guess.

There's been a lot of different discussions in this 62 page thread. Not all of my 102 posts are critical of Obama or even discuss Benghazi. While things could have been handled better, I don't blame the Administration for the attack. Terrorists exploit weaknesses. You will never stop them all and it's useless to point fingers after the fact. Hopefully we learned from mistakes and have improved for future events. My criticism continues to be the actions in the aftermath of the attack. Sorry if I don't believe they are doing EVERYTHING in their power to track down those responsible. I mean the lead suspect, Khattani, is sipping drinks poolside with a NY Times reporter yet we have not interviewed him yet (AFAIK) I do not see in our President a man that is persistent and diligent. Five years in, I think I'm allowed to make that judgement now. Yes, just my opinion.

I hope I'm wrong.

You do remember we got Osama on Obama's watch, right?

He does, but he finds that irrelevant along with the fact that Bush was not even that interested in trying to find him:

http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/2002/11/13_Laden.html

"I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority."

- G.W. Bush, 3/13/02

"I am truly not that concerned about him."

- G.W. Bush, repsonding to a question about bin Laden's whereabouts,

3/13/02 (The New American, 4/8/02)

And yet his administration created the team that never relented in hunting him down and killing him?

 

[mquinnjr]

Can't wait to compare the coverage of this vs. the Christie traffic jam incident.

Does Christie get to say he doesn't care, too?

 

[pantherclub]

Can't wait to compare the coverage of this vs. the Christie traffic jam incident.

Does Christie get to say he doesn't care, too?

cool post bro