U2 - Community rankings - FIN - #4 Sunday Bloody Sunday, #3 - One, #2 - Bad, #1 - Where the Streets Have No Name -Spotify links, thanks to Krista4 (3 Viewers)

[Anarchy99]

I am way confused by this post. And I don’t care about the methodology.

Let's make it easier. Songs hardly anyone voted for should not end up ranked higher than songs a lot of people voted for. If only one person voted for a song (and gave it a high ranking), the bottom line is no one else voted for it.

 

[scorchy]

I am way confused by this post. And I don’t care about the methodology.

I don't really care about the methodology either, but if I'm understanding correctly, it would be like some hometown sportswriter voting a 2-9 Rutgers team as #1 in the final AP poll and then AP actually ranking them #1 because that was their average vote.

On the other hand, Anarchy's way could also end up skewing the results if there are enough jerks like me participating who ignore entire eras of the band.  I stopped listening to U2 in 1992 or thereabouts, so I only included two post-Achtung Baby songs in my rankings.

 

[krista4]

I don't really care about the methodology either, but if I'm understanding correctly, it would be like some hometown sportswriter voting a 2-9 Rutgers team as #1 in the final AP poll and then AP actually ranking them #1 because that was their average vote.

But that's not how JML's methodology works.

ETA for clarity: He isn’t averaging.

ETA2:   I also don't care about the specific methodology, though, and trust JML and all the work he's put into it.

 

[scorchy]

But that's not how JML's methodology works.

ETA He isn’t averaging.

I guess either I misunderstood Anarchy or neither he nor I know what the hell we're talking about.  No matter, I'm just here for the reveal.

 

[Anarchy99]

I found JML's explanation of the scoring / ranking system somewhat confusing and hard to follow. I still don't fully grasp how the final rankings will be determined, so bad on me if I am getting confused and it is simplier than I think it is.

IMO, a basic scoring system would be best / easiest. If 300 songs got votes and 50 people voted, each person's #1 song should get 300 points, #2 song 299 points, etc. The max a song could get would be 15,000 points (#1 on all 50 lists x 300 points). If someone only ranked 50 songs, their last song would get 250 points. That way, the 1-9 Rutgers team that got a rogue 300 points for being an obscure #1 on a list would get 300 points and 0 from everyone else. This way, all the songs are treated equally.

I get that not everyone ranked every song and that there will be people with hardly any songs listed from the past 20 or 30 years. I know and ranked all the songs initially but pared down my list in The List, Part 2. If 75% of people only vote for songs from 1980 - 1992, so be it. Thems the breaks. 

Even if there are 10 out of 50 people that ranked a song from 2015 highly, that should not trump the 40 people that didn't vote for it at all (whether they know the song, ignored the song, or didn't opt to vote for any songs from the 2000's).

Using another sports analogy, if Jayson Tatum got 2 #1 votes for MVP (worth 5 points each) but did not appear on 48 other ballots, not sure he would finish highly in the final vote tally.

 

[krista4]

I guess either I misunderstood Anarchy or neither he nor I know what the hell we're talking about.  No matter, I'm just here for the reveal.

This is the formula from the first page.  I'm not sure if he tweaked it any more after this.

Your #1 ranked song will be worth 100 points

Your #2 ranked song will be worth 95 points

Your #3 ranked song will be worth 90 points

Your #4 ranked song will be worth 85 points

5 =83, 6 = 81, 7 = 79, 8 = 77........18th = 57 points.....

19th = 56, 20th = 55, 21st = 54.....50th = 25 points

51st = 24.5, 52nd = 24, 53rd = 23.5 pts......70th = 15 points

71st = 14.75, 72nd = 14.50.......100th = 7.50 points

101st = 7.40 pts, 102nd = 7.30pts etc

 

[Anarchy99]

This is the formula from the first page.  I'm not sure if he tweaked it any more after this.

Your #1 ranked song will be worth 100 points

Your #2 ranked song will be worth 95 points

Your #3 ranked song will be worth 90 points

Your #4 ranked song will be worth 85 points

5 =83, 6 = 81, 7 = 79, 8 = 77........18th = 57 points.....

19th = 56, 20th = 55, 21st = 54.....50th = 25 points

51st = 24.5, 52nd = 24, 53rd = 23.5 pts......70th = 15 points

71st = 14.75, 72nd = 14.50.......100th = 7.50 points

101st = 7.40 pts, 102nd = 7.30pts etc

But JML also said that it was possible that songs on fewer ballots that averaged higher among those rankers would end up ranked higher than songs that appeared on a lot more ballots but averaged lower. 

I think that's where people like myself and scorchy got confused. Based on that, it sounded like he was going by average point total of the people that actually ranked the songs (and thus not considering a lot of people opted not to vote for those songs).

 

[krista4]

But JML also said that it was possible that songs on fewer ballots that averaged higher among those rankers would end up ranked higher than songs that appeared on a lot more ballots but averaged lower. 

I think that's where people like myself and scorchy got confused. Based on that, it sounded like he was going by average point total of the people that actually ranked the songs (and thus not considering a lot of people opted not to vote for those songs).

Here's the post I think you're referring to:

A 50th ranked song gets 25 points, so if 10 people have a song ranked that averages 2.4 points, the solo song will rank ahead of the 10 ranked song. If the 10 people have it ranked on an average of 2.6 points, it will finish ahead of it. 

My 73rd ranked song will have 14.25 points attached to it. If another song has 5 voters accrue 15 points, it finishes ahead of my song. If the 5 voters song totals 14 points, mine will finish ahead of it. 

Using just the first example, he only seems to be saying:

Song #1 has only one vote, for #50, which equals 25 points.

Song #2 has 10 votes.  In order for that song to beat Song #1, it will need to get more than 25 points.

As a result, with its 10 votes, Song #2 would need to average 2.5 points from each voter to tie or more than that to win.  He's not saying he's averaging anything; just stating that as a point of interest.  It doesn't change the fact that Song #2 needs 25 total points or more from its 10 voters.

 

[Anarchy99]

Here's the post I think you're referring to:

Using just the first example, he only seems to be saying:

Song #1 has only one vote, for #50, which equals 25 points.

Song #2 has 10 votes.  In order for that song to beat Song #1, it will need to get 25 points.

As a result, with its 10 votes, Song #2 would need to average 2.5 points from each voter.  He's not saying he's averaging anything; just stating that as a point of interest.  It doesn't change the fact that Song #2 needs 25 total points from its 10 voters.

I was told there would be no math.

I think most people don't care that much about the math . . . they just want to start seeing the results.

 

[scorchy]

Actually, I care a lot about math.  In general, I mean.  Not as to how JML does his rankings.

 

[krista4]

I think most people don't care that much about the math

Agreed.  I think every person so far - other than you - has said they don't.

 

[John Maddens Lunchbox]

I was told there would be no math.

I think most people don't care that much about the math . . . they just want to start seeing the results.

Lol. Its obvious you care about the math.

what krista is saying is spot on. Straight from the horses mouth or my horse mouth or something like that. 

Ive already determined that if a song has only 1 vote, but its a high vote it still wont fare that well. Example. My 71st ranked song will attract 14.75 points. I am the only one to rank it. Some #### song that didnt attract a rank higher than 130 will beat it as that song had 3 votes cumulating more than 14.75 points. 

The highest solo ranking of a song is #36 by the way. I did not rank this song. It will beat many songs that had several votes. It will probably only just crack the top 200

I am only using averages to determine that if people liked a song enough to rank it, how the average vote for that song was really high in some cases. The cumulative total is all that matters though. The song that has a very high average from only 13 voters that i mentioned, wont do enough to break the top 60 cumulative votes, but those that like the song, really like it

Songs 300-201 are going to be littered heavily with songs that only attracted 1 vote. In a lot of cases my vote. But a few may sneak higher like the #36 song from one ranker who frankly loved the unreleased stuff. There are a couple that arent even on your comprehensive list of unreleased tracks. Sourcing information for 1 song in particular was difficult. 

 

[krista4]

I think JML might have just called me a horse.

 

[John Maddens Lunchbox]

IMO, a basic scoring system would be best / easiest. If 300 songs got votes and 50 people voted, each person's #1 song should get 300 points, #2 song 299 points, etc. The max a song could get would be 15,000 points (#1 on all 50 lists x 300 points). If someone only ranked 50 songs, their last song would get 250 points. That way, the 1-9 Rutgers team that got a rogue 300 points for being an obscure #1 on a list would get 300 points and 0 from everyone else. This way, all the songs are treated equally.

Everyones 25th ranked song will get 50 points. That is regardless of whether they only ranked 25 songs or 288 songs

Everyones 50th ranked song will get 25 points. Regardless of whether they ranked 50 songs or 288 

etc

The 288th ranked song by a ranker will score 1.10 points or something. The lowest placed song ie #308 overall had a solo ranking of #284 for a total score of 1.27 points. No surprise that its a cover. A bad one. 

 

[Anarchy99]

I was initially just curious . . . then confused . . . then trying to figure out what I was missing . . . to then trying to make sense of it all. Bottom line, it doesn't really matter. Just waiting on the list of final rankings (before @krista4 changes her mind again). And if it matters, most horses have very nice teeth.

The break gave me time to buy some new pads and to sharpen up a box of pencils. I will be taking down names of people that defame Rattle & Hum (and will again be getting in people's grills). Certainly, that part isn't going to change.

 

[John Maddens Lunchbox]

I think JML might have just called me a horse.

Lol. I was trying to quote something from you and call myself a horse face in the process. Dont think i pulled it off. At least there was no math in that quote. 

 

[krista4]

Just waiting on the list of final rankings (before @krista4 changes her mind again). And if it matters, most horses have very nice teeth.
 

 

Lol. I was trying to quote something from you and call myself a horse face in the process. Dont think i pulled it off. At least there was no math in that quote. 

 

 

[simey]

And if it matters, most horses have very nice teeth.

I wonder if krista's teeth look like this. 

For the record, I don't like math.

 

[Pip's Invitation]

I was told there would be no math.

I think most people don't care that much about the math . . . they just want to start seeing the results.

FFS, we’re not publishing this in a scientific journal. Can we actually talk about U2 now?

 

[Anarchy99]

FFS, we’re not publishing this in a scientific journal. Can we actually talk about U2 now?

Would love to . . . but it's been 3 months since the last countdown ended and there was a call to arms to submit new rankings.

 

[John Maddens Lunchbox]

Would love to . . . but it's been 3 months since the last countdown ended and there was a call to arms to submit new rankings.

I can see patience is not your strong suit lol

maybe in 2 days i will start. Then we can argue again about whether the U2 cover I rank really low is great or not. For about 50-60 songs. At least the #150-1 part of the countdown running concurrently will get to the meat earlier than the #### ones running at the same time.

 

[Anarchy99]

I can see patience is not your strong suit lol

maybe in 2 days i will start. Then we can argue again about whether the U2 cover I rank really low is great or not. For about 50-60 songs. At least the #150-1 part of the countdown running concurrently will get to the meat earlier than the #### ones running at the same time.

I normally wouldn’t care, but people were all over me for taking forever with Led Zeppelin. From the initial request for lists to the first song released on the countdown was a month. 

 

[Alex P Keaton]

I can see patience is not your strong suit lol

maybe in 2 days i will start. Then we can argue again about whether the U2 cover I rank really low is great or not. For about 50-60 songs. At least the #150-1 part of the countdown running concurrently will get to the meat earlier than the #### ones running at the same time.

Nice!  The concurrent countdown will be fun!!

 

[John Maddens Lunchbox]

I normally wouldn’t care, but people were all over me for taking forever with Led Zeppelin. From the initial request for lists to the first song released on the countdown was a month. 

Few of us understand, but im one of them lol. Im fairly chill at the moment though, so when it happens, it happens. Very soon. 

 

[Corporation]

I can see patience is not your strong suit lol

maybe in 2 days i will start. Then we can argue again about whether the U2 cover I rank really low is great or not. For about 50-60 songs. At least the #150-1 part of the countdown running concurrently will get to the meat earlier than the #### ones running at the same time.

I normally wouldn’t care, but people were all over me for taking forever with Led Zeppelin. From the initial request for lists to the first song released on the countdown was a month. 

I'm sorry you had a bad experience with your countdown, but I would think it would cause you to have more compassion or patience in this instance.

 

[krista4]

There is also one unexpected album that has a distinct subset of fans that rate the album highly with many tracks doing better this time around. 

Pop or NLOTH?

I'm going to go in a different direction on this one.  Since we have a lot of people now who seem to like the older stuff, and IIRC our fearless leader JML isn't a big fan of October in general, I'm taking a stab in the dark with that.

 

[Anarchy99]

I'm sorry you had a bad experience with your countdown, but I would think it would cause you to have more compassion or patience in this instance.

I didn’t have a bad experience. Was only commenting that people were eager to get that one started. We ranked the U2 songs initially 7 or 8 months ago, which makes the wait time now seem like forever. It’s all good. 

 

[Alex P Keaton]

I'm going to go in a different direction on this one.  Since we have a lot of people now who seem to like the older stuff, and IIRC our fearless leader JML isn't a big fan of October in general, I'm taking a stab in the dark with that.

Mrs APK while listening to Rejoice:  “it never really dawned on me til you started this countdown that October was a religiously oriented album.”

Daughter:  “umm, mom, it’s called Rejoice.  I don’t even go to church and I know that’s religious…..”  

 

[krista4]

Mrs APK while listening to Rejoice:  “it never really dawned on me til you started this countdown that October was a religiously oriented album.”

Daughter:  “umm, mom, it’s called Rejoice.  I don’t even go to church and I know that’s religious…..”  

Well and, you know, Gloria.

 

[Pip's Invitation]

Well and, you know, Gloria.

And that Edge almost quit the band during these sessions to devote his life to Jesus.

 

[simey]

Mrs APK while listening to Rejoice:  “it never really dawned on me til you started this countdown that October was a religiously oriented album.”

Daughter:  “umm, mom, it’s called Rejoice.  I don’t even go to church and I know that’s religious…..”  

There is a lot of spirituality in their music, and some of their songs have religious and biblical references. My guess is it stems from growing up in Ireland, and the Catholic vs Protestant fighting still lingering in their country, and religion playing an important roll in their upbringing. U2 pissed off many of their Catholic fans in Ireland a few years ago when they openly supported repealing Irelands 8th Amendment which banned abortion. The Amendment was repealed. I don't consider them a Christian Rock Band, but I do consider them a Spiritual Rock Band. 

 

[Alex P Keaton]

Well and, you know, Gloria.

Indeed.  Top-10 song for her.

It’s funny to me that this wasn’t on her radar, but she really grew up without religion.  It was a total afterthought for her, so the songs to her were more emotive than spiritual.  And as a recovering Catholic, of course the religiosity slaps me in the face.

 

[krista4]

Indeed.  Top-10 song for her.

It’s funny to me that this wasn’t on her radar, but she really grew up without religion.  It was a total afterthought for her, so the songs to her were more emotive than spiritual.  And as a recovering Catholic, of course the religiosity slaps me in the face.

When I first became aware of them, they were termed a "Christian band" to me.  I think "Gloria" and "Rejoice" would have been obvious to me even without that, but I grew up with the vast majority of my family being very devout.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

When I first became aware of them, they were termed a "Christian band" to me.  I think "Gloria" and "Rejoice" would have been obvious to me even without that, but I grew up with the vast majority of my family being very devout.

Evidently singing in Latin was commonplace in Mrs APK’s family.

 

[John Maddens Lunchbox]

The new countdown will commence tomorrow. I have a nasty feeling one track is missing somewhere, but ive looked over and over and cannot find it, so proceed we will. #308 to 1

#308 will be a real bad cover version that has some help

#307 is a very raw demo that is downright bad.

#150 is a track from Zooropa that rises a little bit from its original ranking. 

 

[krista4]

#308 will be a real bad cover version that has some help

#307 is a very raw demo that is downright bad.

 and    and

 

[Pip's Invitation]

The new countdown will commence tomorrow. I have a nasty feeling one track is missing somewhere, but ive looked over and over and cannot find it, so proceed we will. #308 to 1

#308 will be a real bad cover version that has some help

#307 is a very raw demo that is downright bad.

#150 is a track from Zooropa that rises a little bit from its original ranking. 

OMG Get On Your Boots beat out two songs?

 

[John Maddens Lunchbox]

OMG Get On Your Boots beat out two songs?

It beat out 130 songs

The #49 ranking it got, second lowest for that ranker, lifted it from about 220. 

 

[John Maddens Lunchbox]

Before we start, the first time we see a song with 2 rankings is at #294. First time we see a song with 3 rankings is at #278. 4 rankings at #262. 5 rankings at #245. 6 rankings at #211. 7 rankings at #205. 8 rankings at #176. 9 rankings at #171. 10 or more rankings at #125. 15 or more rankings at #74. 20 or more rankings at #52. 25 or more rankings at #35. More than 30 rankings is at #25

Only 9 songs, the top 9, have more than 35 rankers. Only 1 song had all 40 rankers list it. 

The last song with only one ranker will appear at #190 with the only ranker listing it at #36. Not me lol. The next highest appears at #217. Again, not me. My highest solo ranked song lands at #236. 

 

[John Maddens Lunchbox]

#308 - Bang a Gong with Elton John

A fairly plain cover of the T Rex classic. Seems a bit slower than the original, which was much more interesting. Its maybe not cringingly bad, but it wasted time I could be using better elsewhere

Anarchy99 comment From the Angel Headed Hipster: The Songs of Marc Bolan & T.Rex tribute album from 2020. Features Elton John on piano and backing vocals. Too campy and not energetic enough compared to the original (and certainly not anywhere near as rocking as the Power Station version). Not sure U2 was the right artist for this song. Officially released.

Total Points - 1.27

Average Points per rank - 1.27

Highest and only rank - 283

Previous Rank - Unranked

No special version requested

 

[John Maddens Lunchbox]

#307 - False Prophet 

So basic and raw. Just an anthology filler. It doesn’t show any glimpse at their potential. Just teaching them how to use their instruments really. Anyone who listens to this more than 5 times probably needs their head examined. 

Anarchy99 comment Back to the early days for a demo from 1978. Said to be from their third recording session. Not officially released.

Total Points - 1.30

Average Points per rank - 1.30

Highest and only rank - 280

Previous Rank - Unranked

No special version requested

 

[John Maddens Lunchbox]

#150 - Daddy’s Gonna Pay for Your Crashed Car

Original Comments

Vulture.com ranking and comment - 106/218 - Another song that liberally borrowed elements or influences from the Zoo TV production: the fanfare sample in the intro and the images of Berlin after reunification, when Germans from the East were heading to Berlin in their Trabants — some of which barely made it into the city before breaking down on the side of the road. It’s impressionistic, futuristic, fun.

Comment - This song is like a crashed car. A mess. One of us really liked it. The rest, not so much. 

Total Points - 87.17

Rankers - 7

Average Points per rank - 12.45 (Approximately an 80th rank). 

Ranks 162nd on average points per ranker

Highest Rank - 43

Lowest Rank - 142

Previous Rank - 177 > 150

No special version requested

Ranking Comments - Only 1 top 50 ranking and only one other in the top 100. Its lowest rank is higher than its overall ranking due to its lack of voters. Only 8 songs that ranked lower had more voters than this one. Enthusiasm for this track was not high. 

 

[John Maddens Lunchbox]

Next up we will see a song that rises over 50 places from its original ranking to land at #149. At the #### end of the countdown we see an appalling cover of a great song. The song includes the original artist in a live setting. Im not sure why I ranked False Prophet and Bang A Gong lower honestly. Also we will see a song recorded during the Achtung Baby sessions. It just doesnt fit the mood and clearly was abandoned. 

 

[krista4]

 Im not sure why I ranked False Prophet and Bang A Gong lower honestly. 

Wait, those were your rankings?  I’m confused as you seem to hate the songs so I thought they were someone else’s.  Or maybe does this comes back to your saying there are some that you didn’t rank though you initially intended to rank everything that someone else did?  I think you said you were going to mention something about that.

 

[Acrobat7]

And off we go! 

I had Daddy‘s Car at about this spot (134/228) so I approve of the ranking! 

 

[krista4]

#308 - Bang a Gong with Elton John

A fairly plain cover of the T Rex classic. Seems a bit slower than the original, which was much more interesting. Its maybe not cringingly bad, but it wasted time I could be using better elsewhere

Agree with this.  It's not awful, but nothing much interesting about it, either.  Elton's piano part is fun.  Bono's vocal is a bit breathy and affected for me.  Though this wasn't on my list, I don't mind listening to it.

I only ended up with ~3 (I think) covers out of my top 115, and this exercise made me believe U2 is decidedly not a great cover band.  That's just fine since I love so many of their originals, but most of the covers were played very straight, which usually doesn't interest me.  There were an alarmingly large number of Beatles-related covers on the listening list, and though none of them made my 115, I kept a separate notation of five I found pretty good.  Wonder if any of those will show up.

 

[krista4]

#307 - False Prophet 

So basic and raw. Just an anthology filler. It doesn’t show any glimpse at their potential. Just teaching them how to use their instruments really. Anyone who listens to this more than 5 times probably needs their head examined. 

This one made my initial list of possibilities but didn't make the final cut, so maybe I need my head examined for considering it.  The vocal is just too off for me to have had it on the final list.

#150 - Daddy’s Gonna Pay for Your Crashed Car

This placement seems reasonable.  Didn't make my initial cut, but it's not bad.

 

[Anarchy99]

Agree with this.  It's not awful, but nothing much interesting about it, either.  Elton's piano part is fun.  Bono's vocal is a bit breathy and affected for me.  Though this wasn't on my list, I don't mind listening to it.

I only ended up with ~3 (I think) covers out of my top 115, and this exercise made me believe U2 is decidedly not a great cover band.  That's just fine since I love so many of their originals, but most of the covers were played very straight, which usually doesn't interest me.  There were an alarmingly large number of Beatles-related covers on the listening list, and though none of them made my 115, I kept a separate notation of five I found pretty good.  Wonder if any of those will show up.

Like many other bands, U2 started out playing covers before they wrote their own material. Some of their early covers included . . .

- Bye, Bye, Baby (Baby Goodbye) (Four Seasons)
- Show Me The Way (Peter Frampton)
- Brown Sugar (Rolling Stones)
- Jumpin' Jack Flash (Rolling Stones)
- Johnny B. Good (Chuck Berry)
- What's Going On (Marvin Gaye)
- Anarchy In The U.K. (Sex Pistols)
- Suffragette City (David Bowie)
- Nights In White Satin (Moody Blues)
- Peaceful Easy Feeling (Eagles)

How they built a following off of that mish mosh blend of eclectic songs is a mystery. Thankfully, I have never stumbled into any of those recordings.

I have been working on my Top 100 U2 covers, and I have discovered that there are more than 100. Maybe I will rank them all, but a bunch of them are Edge Karaoke, and those to me were more comic relief to break up the first set of the Pop tour than legit performances. Decisions, decisions . . .

 

[General Malaise]

I have absolutely zero clue what is going on in here, but it's still a better thread than 95% of the stuff on FBG right now.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

#150 - Daddy’s Gonna Pay for Your Crashed Car

Original Comments

Vulture.com ranking and comment - 106/218 - Another song that liberally borrowed elements or influences from the Zoo TV production: the fanfare sample in the intro and the images of Berlin after reunification, when Germans from the East were heading to Berlin in their Trabants — some of which barely made it into the city before breaking down on the side of the road. It’s impressionistic, futuristic, fun.

Comment - This song is like a crashed car. A mess. One of us really liked it. The rest, not so much. 

Total Points - 87.17

Rankers - 7

Average Points per rank - 12.45 (Approximately an 80th rank). 

Ranks 162nd on average points per ranker

Highest Rank - 43

Lowest Rank - 142

Previous Rank - 177 > 150

No special version requested

Ranking Comments - Only 1 top 50 ranking and only one other in the top 100. Its lowest rank is higher than its overall ranking due to its lack of voters. Only 8 songs that ranked lower had more voters than this one. Enthusiasm for this track was not high. 

Even if I had ranked more songs, this never would have made my list.  When I started finally warming up to Zooropa……I heard this song again.  And was reminded of how mediocre this album is.