grateful zed
Footballguy
are you an expert?Penis is a muscle.and its all muscle
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UFC wagering: no longer stuck with the old thread title. The window to change it is here! (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter AhrnCityPahnder
- Start date
modogg
Footballguy
So i know the UFC over-saturation has been an issue for the last year or 2, and in my opinion, i think that a major factor with it is the UFC's contract with FOX and their obligations for it, in addition to the need to push this international expansion. I do think they need to expand internationally to keep the UFC with the best fighters in the world and give the fans what they want. Those 2 factors, plus the inreased roster i think is the reason for the over-saturation, and is why there is no easy answer
but the reason why i felt the need to post is a result of this over-saturation has really been to stretch out the MMA media, and I realized today that even though the sites cover the American MMA organziations, they really have not covered much of the orgs. outside of the country. You used to hear about Dreamn and the few other orgs. out there, but you don't hear about much anymore. I mention this because OneFC is supposed to have some quality fighters, and you just don't hear much about anybody over there. Just was something ingteresting i thought about. It seems like RFA, Legacy and a bunch of others are brought up, but the fact that there is so much UFC to cover has really not allowed much coverage for things like ONEFC
but the reason why i felt the need to post is a result of this over-saturation has really been to stretch out the MMA media, and I realized today that even though the sites cover the American MMA organziations, they really have not covered much of the orgs. outside of the country. You used to hear about Dreamn and the few other orgs. out there, but you don't hear about much anymore. I mention this because OneFC is supposed to have some quality fighters, and you just don't hear much about anybody over there. Just was something ingteresting i thought about. It seems like RFA, Legacy and a bunch of others are brought up, but the fact that there is so much UFC to cover has really not allowed much coverage for things like ONEFC
moleculo
Footballguy
Not sure I agree here. There's obviously more to mma than judo. It takes years to become well-rounded, even for the most gifted athlete. The gold-medalist judoka could likely take her down, but my money would still be on Rousey.Jiu-jitsu, which Rousey has demonstrated a mastery of, is all about negating an opponents strength. If Rousey were able to avoid a boxing match, I think she would be competitive with your low-level UFC male fighters at an equivalent weight.
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
Dude cmon!!! Now we are being ridiculous... There isn't a single male UFC fighter that wouldn't put her into a hospital.http://m.ufc.com/fighter/Weight_Class/Flyweight
Not a single fighter on this list she would last a minute with and she outweighs them all.
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moleculo
Footballguy
if she can avoid a boxing match and get the fight to the ground, I'm not willing to rule her out. I believe her jits is a level above most UFC fighters.
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
Against a male UFC fighter? Zero chance!
Maybe Brittney Griner can post up Zach Randolph and dunk on him too? I mean she dominates all the other women.
Maybe Brittney Griner can post up Zach Randolph and dunk on him too? I mean she dominates all the other women.
moleculo
Footballguy
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
Laughable.She's a ####### woman! Against a UFC male, her own weight? She'd be slaughtered!! She would be overpowered and hurt quickly.
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fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
I'm just shocked that there is conversation of her being able to hold her own against UFC men her own weight. It's unbelievable and so flagrantly incorrect!
SacramentoBob
Footballguy
I was talking strictly a judo match between an 18 year old version of that kid and Rousey at her best.
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
moleculo
Footballguy
not much of a limb you are going out on there...a gold medalist guy could beat a bronze medalist chick at that particular sport...sure.
Rousey is more than a bronze-medalist judoka. She has gotten really, really good at the jits over the past few years. Her judo + jits > your 20 year old gold medalist with judo only.
BustedKnuckles
Footballguy
i couldnt tell ya...but the vibe you`re sending is that no woman could beat any man in anything ...ever
Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
The whole argument (and Rogan's argument) was Rousey could beat 50% of UFC bantamweights
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steelerfan1
Footballguy
sure most have saw this, but rumble and jones kind of punked dana at the pre even matchup face offs.
http://www.mmafighting.com/2015/3/2/8131715/anthony-johnson-explains-his-and-jon-jones-plot-to-punk-dana-white
http://www.mmafighting.com/2015/3/2/8131715/anthony-johnson-explains-his-and-jon-jones-plot-to-punk-dana-white
Paulymaggs
Footballguy
What's to stop Rousey from agreeing to fight some marginal (male) 135 pounder? Pretty sure any of those jobbers doing $20k a fight would jump at the chance.
EYLive
Footballguy
She knows she'd die. UFC employees will talk her up non-stop cuz it's good for business, plus they know how to hype her without actually pressuring her into an exhibition fight with a man.
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
I'm just saying there is no way a UFC signed man loses a fight to a woman, impossible.
Abrantes
Footballguy
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
I get the feeling you think she could take on Cain Velasquez.
Abrantes
Footballguy
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
Most, honestly no... Ballpark, about half. The rest have to be talented enough to be signed into the UFC to take on a woman.
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
What would happen if a bottom tier Flyweight male fought Cat Zingano?
Would it be a close fight?
Would it be a close fight?
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Abrantes
Footballguy
This is what I was getting at. They really don't. Objectively speaking, a lot of UFC fighters aren't "top-level talent" at all, particularly in lighter weight classes, which are relatively new, and even more so recently, with the UFC ramping up their event schedule and being forced to fill out more cards than ever. And taking on a woman is different from obliterating Ronda Rousey in ten seconds.
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
There isn't a sport where a top level woman could compete with a professional male, why would the most physical sport be different?
Possum
Footballguy
those videos aren't doing anything to help the case for Ronda. The first one is Lucia Rjiker, who was one of the greatest all-time female kickboxers and undefeated for something like ten years against women when she took that fight against a no-name Muy Thai guy. She got KO'ed in the second round there.
second one is Ediane Gomes, and that's a pretty impressive video. But: 1) she's fighting some out of shape local kickboxer who she admitted didn't know anything about jiu-jitsu or ground fighting (and still nearly broke her back with that slam), and 2) you can see the guy isn't really trying to engage her standing and doesn't even throw a punch. You can read about that fight here: http://mmajunkie.com/2014/10/woman-vs-man-in-a-bare-knuckle-no-rules-fight-it-happened-and-the-story-behind-it-is-a-wild-one
I'll agree that a super badass woman like Ronda could beat up most untrained dudes, and could probably even be competitive with plenty of local-level male MMA fighters at 125/135. But I don't think there's any way that she wins an actual full on MMA fight against an in-shape, UFC-level male fighter at any current weight class. I don't care how good her judo is, she's not fast or strong enough to compete against elite male fighters when they're fighting for real.
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Possum
Footballguy
I've seen all of them except Syler, Serrano and Reyes (maybe Sanchez too, I can't remember). Which ones off the list do you think she could beat?
Abrantes
Footballguy
1. MMA isn't like other sports. It's fighting, not point-based competition.
2. What are you using as evidence of hypothetical "top female vs. random professional male" matchups in other sports?
3. That's not really much of a counterpoint to what I said. It's mostly a reiteration of your "man >>>> wopman" position, but doesn't address the specifics of the case you posed originally - a random UFC flyweight against Ronda Rousey.
Again, I think people are overrating the whole "UFC-level skill" thing.
Possum
Footballguy
I told myself I wouldn't engage any further after mya few posts back, and unfortunately jumped in again, but I'm waving the white flag, 'cause honestly, I find the whole "Ronda vs. men" discussion pretty silly. Carry on.
100% agreed, it's a silly topic. I told myself I would keep quiet about it too but got sucked back in like a dummy
AhrnCityPahnder
Yinz-o-riffic
Josh Neer accepts an internet tough guy challenge from some heckler online, proceeds to kick the snot out of him.
I gotta say, of all the people I'd wanna troll, Neer is about at the bottom of the list. He seems like he's a a few headkicks away from climbing a clock tower.
I gotta say, of all the people I'd wanna troll, Neer is about at the bottom of the list. He seems like he's a a few headkicks away from climbing a clock tower.
SacramentoBob
Footballguy
Protesters would come out of the woodwork saying the UFC is promoting violence against women. It's a complete non-starter.
moleculo
Footballguy
it is silly because it will never happen - and for for any "Dana doesn't want it" or UFC reasons, it's because no state would sanction such a fight.I told myself I wouldn't engage any further after my
100% agreed, it's a silly topic. I told myself I would keep quiet about it too but got sucked back in like a dummy
No reason we can't wildly speculate and argue though, it's not like we are solving world hunger in here anyways.
SacramentoBob
Footballguy
Rhonda Rousey vs Alex Caceres. He's currently ranked #44 at Bantamweight by Fight Matrix.
Who wins?
Who wins?
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Hang 10
Footballguy
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Cliff Clavin
Footballguy
SacramentoBob
Footballguy
Rhonda Rousey vs Kid Yamamoto? Hasn't won a single UFC fight in 3 tries and is 1-5 in his last 6.
SacramentoBob
Footballguy
Here's the list of BW that have fought for the UFC in the last year. I assume some are no longer in the promotion, but we can count them since they are the bottom-feeder "good enough to make the UFC" types that we're talking about. There's 59 on this list, who are the 30 that Rousey can beat?
http://www.fightmatrix.com/mma-ranks/bantamweight/?OrgFilter=UFC&NatFilter=&OrgFilter2=&AgeFromFilter=&AgeToFilter=&TeamFilter=&StateFilter=
http://www.fightmatrix.com/mma-ranks/bantamweight/?OrgFilter=UFC&NatFilter=&OrgFilter2=&AgeFromFilter=&AgeToFilter=&TeamFilter=&StateFilter=
moleculo
Footballguy
I'd also like to point out that when I made the claim she can be competitive with lower level UFC male bantamweights, it came with the caveat "if she can avoid a boxing match"... that is, if she can get the fight to the ground without inflicting any serious damage. When you are on the ground, knock-out power is gone. it's a matter of her being able to not get beaten into a pulp in ground & pound (if she were on bottom), technique helps a lot there.
Rousey makes up for lack of power with a very technical jiu-jitsu, well adapted for MMA. She doesn't win her fights by being dominant physically, she wins with great jits. Going against a significantly stronger opponent does not change her game at all because she doesn't rely on strength to win.
I think it would be a lot closer than lots of you guys realize.
Rousey makes up for lack of power with a very technical jiu-jitsu, well adapted for MMA. She doesn't win her fights by being dominant physically, she wins with great jits. Going against a significantly stronger opponent does not change her game at all because she doesn't rely on strength to win.
I think it would be a lot closer than lots of you guys realize.
SacramentoBob
Footballguy
moleculo
Footballguy
could an olympic level judoka take me down? absolutely. And I was a college wrestler.
edit: let me expand on this a little bit. most of the judo throws that she shows on-line, I have never seen before. Most wrestlers are not well versed in that stuff, even Greco-Roman guys. it's a different set of moves, with a different feel.
I was also never all that good with greco stuff anyways. I was a leg-attack guy, I have very little throws in my arsenal. I can counter lots of stuff by feel and know how to sag my hips at the right time and how to move around things, but lots of that judo stuff has counters for counters - it's levels beyond what even high level wrestlers know.
Obviously, i'm not a UFC level fighter though.
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moleculo
Footballguy
Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
I'll take every single UFC bantamweight vs Rousey.
Rogan needs to #### off back to the booth and do what he does best.
OOOOOH...
OOOOOOH....
OOOOOOOOOOOH.....
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH...
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lod01
Footballguy
Definitely a lot closer than these guys realize. The fact that Gracie beat guys way stronger than he is, is proof. It doesn't matter how big or strong you are, if you get locked in an arm bar, the pressure on your elbow will make you tap out. Sure she could get KO'ed by a punch before that happens but watching Gracie dispose of guys more than twice his size and strength means that with technique, she could also...if she can take a punch.
I doubt she would win a brawl, she could only win via tap out. All it takes is one mistake.
moleculo
Footballguy
I have a friend who is on the cusp of making it into the UFC as a bantamweight. Last month he submitted an 11-2 Bellator fighter (and an ATT black belt) , and he has spent weeks training at Alpha Male with Faber and Mendes and all of those guys. Here's what he said:
"she would have a shot at grabbing an arm bar maybe but at the end of the day she loses.... There are a couple of incomplete fighters that are just strikers she might be able to throw and catch. on the ground against me - she'd have to catch me sleeping."
That's what it boils down to - could she get her opponent on the ground without taking any serious shots, and then is her jits superior. I think her jits is better than at least a couple of the lower ranked fighters, so she would have a shot.
I'm not saying she is better than any of these guys or that it's clear cut - in all likelyhood she loses but IMO she's still got a shot.
"she would have a shot at grabbing an arm bar maybe but at the end of the day she loses.... There are a couple of incomplete fighters that are just strikers she might be able to throw and catch. on the ground against me - she'd have to catch me sleeping."
That's what it boils down to - could she get her opponent on the ground without taking any serious shots, and then is her jits superior. I think her jits is better than at least a couple of the lower ranked fighters, so she would have a shot.
I'm not saying she is better than any of these guys or that it's clear cut - in all likelyhood she loses but IMO she's still got a shot.
Cliff Clavin
Footballguy
Gracie was fighting guys who had no idea what BJJ was. Big difference between that and Rousey fighting guys that all have hundreds to thousands of hours training it and have a physical advantage over her.
Maia is an elite BJJ fighter who can't submit most of the guys he fights. Why do we assume Rousey would be able to when she isn't on Maia's level and at a physical disadvantage?
I'd give Rousey a better chance vs Mayweather than against almost any UFC fighter.