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UFC wagering: no longer stuck with the old thread title. The window to change it is here! (10 Viewers)

SacramentoBob said:
GSP fighting in the MW division makes sense.  Having him fight Bisping for the title makes huge money sense. 

With respect to Silva, he has lots of losses on his card lately, but outside of the Weidman fights, he beat Diaz in the ring, should've beaten Bisping and lost to the current 205 champ.  Not as bad as it looks on paper.  Should Silva be over Romera and Souza?  No.  Will UFC try to make a GSP v Silva title fight happen?  Probably.
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On paper, he's won 1 fight in his last 6 and that one win was debatable. :lol:    Yeah, give him a title shot.  Why not?  

 
SacramentoBob said:
Will UFC try to make a GSP v Silva title fight happen?  Probably.
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That's what I'm afraid of. If GSP wins, they'll try to milk a "superfight" out of Silva. I'd like to see them fight regardless but the title will just keep losing value if they do that that stuff.

 
SacramentoBob said:
Talk about a guy not deserving of a title shot.  His last win was in 2011 vs BJ Penn.  Jesus.  I think he sees Woodley as beatable and is waiting for that fight.  I think it's a smart tactical choice for him.
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I love the Diazes, but Nick is no position to pick and choose opponents from the top of the division. Take a fight with a top 10 guy lets go from there.

 
SacramentoBob said:
Talk about a guy not deserving of a title shot.  His last win was in 2011 vs BJ Penn.  Jesus.  I think he sees Woodley as beatable and is waiting for that fight.  I think it's a smart tactical choice for him.
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Totally agree. Nick is one of my favorite fighters to watch, but a title shot?  :no:

I think that he's said that he's only willing to consider huge $$$ superfights, so I'm sure that GSP would be his opponent of choice.

 
SacramentoBob said:
Rousey has looked outclassed in her last 2 competitive fights in her prime.  She doesn't deserve to leapfrog anyone during her next comeback.
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I'll personally be stunned if she ever comes back at this point. particularly since she's not going to get paid like she has in the past. Without the aura of dominance, she's not going to sell like she did when she was undefeated.

 
When I saw there were 52 new replies in this thread, I was afraid something happened to the Nurmy/Fergy fight. :whew:

 
EYLive said:
I love the Diazes, but Nick is no position to pick and choose opponents from the top of the division. Take a fight with a top 10 guy lets go from there.
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With the new owners focused on maximizing buyrates, he is!  Is he deserving of a title shot or top 5 opponent?  Not really.

 
EYLive said:
Kinda true.
It's been so long. Is Nick much of a draw anymore? 
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He did 300K in a PPV against Condit once upon a time.  Not bad for a non-title fight. And with Nate's 2 high profile fights against McGregor, the name Diaz carries some extra weight right now, IMO.

 
Nick is an enigma right now.  He said he only wants big money fights, but Lawler would have been a "big money fight", no?

Let's also not forget that Silva got a close win over him before usada.  He was definitely on something performance enhancing.  Nick just smoked weed.  Imo, he should still be in the peak of his prime.

 
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Bisping should have quite the size and weight advantage.  I wonder why GSP wasn't interested in a 170 fight?  

 
The Gator said:
This fight will be my first purchased fight. Pretty excite to watch that Russian grappling dude. 
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i looked at the match list the other night, honestly from top to bottom this is one of the better cards they have had in awhile. The undercard is impressive too with guys like Laando and Bestick. 

 
Quez said:
I would definitely buy it if it wasn't me sitting at home by myself.  I need more MMA friends in RL :(
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:lmao:  i've run into the same thing. Funny thing is trying to talk MMA up to people who have not jumped on the train yet. Only group watch i was able to get was Ronda's last fight. outside of that, not much care

 
Quez said:
Bisping should have quite the size and weight advantage.  I wonder why GSP wasn't interested in a 170 fight?  
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i think GSP discussed when he was fighting before a move up because he wasn't interested in fighting the same guys and hanging around in that division for a long time. For him, 185 is fresh and new with all kinds of new match-ups which is what i think he wants. I have to think GSP is really in love with the idea of coming back and testing himself agsinst guys like Jacare and Rockhold and all of them. New challenges and true challenges for GSP that really was truly dominating until his head wasn't as in the game as it was before. 

Honestly, one of the best things for the UFC is an intrinsically motivated GSP to come back and really be in love with fighting again. 

 
AhrnCityPahnder said:
I blame Gay Jesus for this this
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His shtick with Bisping was great too. It is a shame because the UFC sends mixed messages. A guy like McGreggor does that and they give him what he wants. Romero tries his self-promoting with trolling Bisping all over the place, and he ends up losing his spot for the next title shot. i forget the time frame for the Bisping-GSP fight, but i feel for Romero a bit with this one cause he isn't getting younger. 

 
:lmao:  Jacaré must be fuuuuuuuuuming.

I've harped on the circus aspect of the UFC before, so this comes as no big shock. I've long ceased getting worked up about the business side of the UFC's matchmaking, generally speaking. It's prize fighting, and the rankings have always been more guidelines than anything else.

But really, if you have one of your all-time top draws coming back after years away, how silly would it be to waste him on a lesser fight? I understand why people argue for the sake of the purity of matchmaking and "deserving" contenders, but when has prize fighting ever adhered faithfully to that? And from the fans' perspective, would y'all really be more interested in Romero/Bisping than Bisping vs. a returning GSP? 'Cause I'd certainly rather watch the GSP fight (setting aside the separate discussion of whether GSP should've come back at all).

 
As far as the "immediate title shot" thing is concerned, the example I'd use would be Couture coming back to face Sylvia for the HW title after losing to Liddell at LHW in his last fight, a year before that.

 
Abrantes said:
As far as the "immediate title shot" thing is concerned, the example I'd use would be Couture coming back to face Sylvia for the HW title after losing to Liddell at LHW in his last fight, a year before that.
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:goodposting:  totally forgot about that one, great example. And honestly i still would contest that the audience when Couture stumbled big Tim was the one of the best, hottest fan reactions i remember. I think everybody loved it, and i know Bisping has embraced his heel side, but i wonder if GSP could get something like that. 

 
GOB said:
Misha Cirkunov resigned with UFC. Huge news for the 205 division. Needed him, imo.
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interested to hear some of the behind the scenes stuff wth this. maybe he thought he could get a much better deal from bellator so he asked to be rekeased, realized he couldn't and came back. 

 
I'm fine with GSP getting a title shot first time back.  He's in the conversation for GOAT, even though I don't like him very much. 

 
Abrantes said:
As far as the "immediate title shot" thing is concerned, the example I'd use would be Couture coming back to face Sylvia for the HW title after losing to Liddell at LHW in his last fight, a year before that.
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A better example, but that heavyweight division was absolute garbage at that time.  Couture was probably the legitimate #1 contender at that time.  The only other guy worth a damn was Arlovski and he just lost twice to Sylvia.  

 
NutterButter said:
A better example, but that heavyweight division was absolute garbage at that time.  Couture was probably the legitimate #1 contender at that time.  The only other guy worth a damn was Arlovski and he just lost twice to Sylvia.  
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Yeah, middleweight is also absolute garbage right now. 

 
Quez said:
I haven't been this excited about a fight since McGregor vs Diaz 2.  Less than a week away!

It's no secret what Khabib is going to be trying to do.  Tony needs to stay outside, move, and use his reach advantage. (76" to 70" Khabib.).  If / when Khabib takes him down, Ferguson's Jiu-Jitsu could trap the overly aggressive Khabib.   

I think the smart money Bid on Ferguson. It's easy to be blinded by the raw dominance of Khabib, but it reminds me of Lesnar.  It seems unstoppable until he faced an opponent who could defend his takedowns.

My prediction, Ferguson 5th round submission.  He tires out Khabib, and takes advantage of a mistake.  For Russian schtick purposes I may root for Khabib, but deep down I want Tony to win.

Speaking of schtick, this is upper tier

https://youtu.be/c_JzsKEV114

*Eta, I had put Khabib reach at 64, and there are mixed reports.  However, his wiki says 70, which would be more realistic
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7MPbVB0Hbg

I like Hardy's breakdown of Khabib's punching, never noticed it and they do an awesome job of catching the nuances in fighters

 
Cliff Clavin said:
Yeah, middleweight is also absolute garbage right now. 
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Compared to HW a decade ago (or even now, really)? Come on now... Romero, Jacare, Rockhold, and Weidman are all legitimate studs. Rockhold probably deserved an immediate rematch due to the short-notice loss to Bisping, losing on a flash KO, and the way he beat Bisping's a$$ the first time they fought. Romero and Jacare are both absolutely desrving of a shot right now too.

 
modogg said:
i think GSP discussed when he was fighting before a move up because he wasn't interested in fighting the same guys and hanging around in that division for a long time. For him, 185 is fresh and new with all kinds of new match-ups which is what i think he wants. I have to think GSP is really in love with the idea of coming back and testing himself agsinst guys like Jacare and Rockhold and all of them. New challenges and true challenges for GSP that really was truly dominating until his head wasn't as in the game as it was before. 

Honestly, one of the best things for the UFC is an intrinsically motivated GSP to come back and really be in love with fighting again. 
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I'd bet that at 35 and away for 3 1/2 years, he just doesn't want to have to make a rough cut anymore.

 
Coeur de Lion said:
I'd bet that at 35 and away for 3 1/2 years, he just doesn't want to have to make a rough cut anymore.
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maybe, and to be honest it will make for a great story. GSP has said many times how the last year or 2 of his run he just wasn't into it. It became more of a job. The one thing about GSP that is different then a lot of fighters is that GSP doesn't need to come back to make money, which is very good for everyone. 

i think what GSP needed was some time away, and i think before when he was the top PPV draw he had a ton of additional pressure on him. Now he can share that with McGreggor and some other guys, and i think he really wants to come back and test himself. It is funny thinking how it is 3.5 years cause that it is a long time. But if anybody can overcome that rust i would think GSP can (Dom too). So i don't think his only reason for MW is to avoid a rough cut, though he did talk about how he cut from 200. I think it is much more about wanting to come back and fight new guys in a new division. His body did always seem to be able to be able to do 185, and from all i have heard the real difference in weight classes is the reach. Like how Big Rigg will by far have the smallest reach in the MW division, GSP i think won't be as hampered. 

i would have rather seen George come back in a "warm-up" fight before his first fight back being for a title, but i think he will be able to hang just fine. Won't be as much of an advantage as he had at 170, but i really am intrigued to see how his takedowns look against the bigger 185'ers. 

 
IMO Woodley, Lawler, Thompson, and Maia are all hugely intriguing new opponents for GSP at 170 -- and I think that he's going to be dwarfed by and in serious trouble against the bigger MWs. Bisping is a perfect opponent for him, though, and winning a title in a higher weight class will be great for his legacy.

 
Coeur de Lion said:
Compared to HW a decade ago (or even now, really)? Come on now... Romero, Jacare, Rockhold, and Weidman are all legitimate studs. Rockhold probably deserved an immediate rematch due to the short-notice loss to Bisping, losing on a flash KO, and the way he beat Bisping's a$$ the first time they fought. Romero and Jacare are both absolutely desrving of a shot right now too.
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Rockhold just got demolished by Bisping. Romero is a roids freak. Weidman hasn't won in almost 2 years and got smacked by the previous two guys. Jacare's best win is over a roidless-Belfort. After that? Boesch? He's been running over nobodies... Not his fault by any means but that is the division.

Romero is the only guy doing anything in the top 5 but again, juice monkey.

 
Yeah, yeah. And Jacare took romero to a questionable split.  And rockhold demolished Weidman who demolished silva while he was still considered one of the best in the game.  A lot of mma math.  Still, none of those guys holds a candle to Jeff Monson who fought Silvia for the title before couture got his comeback shot. 

 
Cliff Clavin said:
Rockhold just got demolished by Bisping. Romero is a roids freak. Weidman hasn't won in almost 2 years and got smacked by the previous two guys. Jacare's best win is over a roidless-Belfort. After that? Boesch? He's been running over nobodies... Not his fault by any means but that is the division.

Romero is the only guy doing anything in the top 5 but again, juice monkey.
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Eh, I think that's going a bit too far. Jacaré and Romero are extremely talented, while Rockhold was on an incredible roll up until that last fight (including going through Bisping in dominating fashion just 4 fights ago). The real problem is that no one in the division has proven they can sell PPVs, regardless of how talented they may be - which is how we get to GSP/Bisping.

 
Cliff Clavin said:
Rockhold just got demolished by Bisping. Romero is a roids freak. Weidman hasn't won in almost 2 years and got smacked by the previous two guys. Jacare's best win is over a roidless-Belfort. After that? Boesch? He's been running over nobodies... Not his fault by any means but that is the division.

Romero is the only guy doing anything in the top 5 but again, juice monkey.
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Not really, USADA tested an unopened bottle of supplements he used and found a banned substance that wasn't listed on the label. His supplements were tainted without his knowledge. There was no intent to cheat, and USADA repealed their 2 year suspension.
I don't know where you got the steroid or juice idea from. You can't believe every meathead tweet out there.

 
NutterButter said:
Yeah, yeah. And Jacare took romero to a questionable split.  And rockhold demolished Weidman who demolished silva while he was still considered one of the best in the game.  A lot of mma math.  Still, none of those guys holds a candle to Jeff Monson who fought Silvia for the title before couture got his comeback shot. 
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HW division was rough back then, but saying Couture was anywhere close to being the #1 contender is loco. He hadn't fought at HW in 5 years at that point.

 
Jacare has wins over Gegard Mousasi, Yushin Okami, Tim Kennedy, and Robbie Lawler also. He's absolutely an elite MW.

And Rockhold just happened to get caught, which happens.

 
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Coeur de Lion said:
Jacare has wins over Gegard Mousasi, Yushin Okami, Tim Kennedy, and Robbie Lawler also. He's absolutely an elite MW.

And Rockhold just happened to get caught, which happens.
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yeah but what can you expect from Rockhold. He has talked about walking away a few times from the sport. Agree with everybody about Jacare and Romero, but honestly the GSP thins isn't really that big of a deal. Sucks it isn't until the 2nd half of '17, but i am guessing after that we will have a clear indication of who is next

 
modogg said:
yeah but what can you expect from Rockhold. He has talked about walking away a few times from the sport. Agree with everybody about Jacare and Romero, but honestly the GSP thins isn't really that big of a deal. Sucks it isn't until the 2nd half of '17, but i am guessing after that we will have a clear indication of who is next




 
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Hopefully, that means early July.

 
Abrantes said:
The real problem is that no one in the division has proven they can sell PPVs, regardless of how talented they may be - which is how we get to GSP/Bisping.
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I agree.  This weekend will be a big test for the UFC, as there aren't really any "big names".  To the average non-mma fan that might occasionally buy a big fight, this isn't a big fight.  Most of my friends & wife, who don't watch MMA ,know who Lesner, McGregor, & Rousey are.  That's about it.  The best thing this fight has going for it to those people is "the winner fights McGregor".  There is always the possibility that the UFC is still seeing massive growth, and if so 209 could do well.  To the hardcore MMA fans this card is great.  I think the exposure, and having them on Fox will pay dividends.

*Eta the more I think of it, UFC is missing the boat on selling "the winner fights McGregor" angle.  He is huge.  Just have him on all the promos with a few shots of Khabib and Ferguson sprinkled in.

Looks like McGregor could be angling for Diaz 3 anyways...

http://www.foxsports.com/ufc/story/conor-mcgregors-coach-reveals-who-he-wants-to-see-the-lightweight-champion-face-next-030217

 
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Quez said:
*Eta the more I think of it, UFC is missing the boat on selling "the winner fights McGregor" angle.  He is huge.  Just have him on all the promos with a few shots of Khabib and Ferguson sprinkled in.
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They really can't promote that way unless McGregor is actually going to fight the winner next. He might fight Ferguson, but I really doubt that he wants anything to do with the nightmarish stylistic matchup against Khabib.

I agree that another Diaz fight is probably the most likely next fight for McGregor.  :lol:

 
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