Unethical or Collusion? Yes/No poll (1 Viewer)

[fantasycurse42]

No convo, just a yes/no poll to put a raging argument to bed.

Redraft league - Team A is 3-7 and season is just about over. He makes a trade with his best friend Team B who is 6-4.

Player A trades 3 top 10 guys to player B for an injured guy, a backup, & a number 2 guy. After commissioner disqualifies both teams, player A comes clean to commissioner that he tanked and A & B made the deal to make Player B's team better. Supposedly no money is exchanged between the two of them & it was just done out of friendship.

Team A traded away AJ Green, Moreno, & R Wilson

Team B traded away Larry Fitzgerald, BJGE, Cutler

 

[MoveToSkypager]

Flawed poll.

 

[fantasycurse42]

Flawed poll.

Wonder which way Troll City voted?

 

[dboysrock94]

You just stated the owner admitted to it, why would you take a poll asking if it was collusion

 

[fantasycurse42]

You just stated the owner admitted to it, why would you take a poll asking if it was collusion

Apparently some think this isn't collusion.

 

[rail]

Not sure why this is a question. There is an admission.

 

[fantasycurse42]

Not sure why this is a question. There is an admission.

There are about a half dozen people arguing this exact scenario isn't collusion just unethical.

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=698745

 

[Bamac]

Who cares if it's collusion? It's cheating. End of story.

 

[KCitons]

No convo, just a yes/no poll to put a raging argument to bed.

Redraft league - Team A is 3-7 and season is just about over. He makes a trade with his best friend Team B who is 6-4.

Player A trades 3 top 10 guys to player B for an injured guy, a backup, & a number 2 guy. After commissioner disqualifies both teams, player A comes clean to commissioner that he tanked and A & B made the deal to make Player B's team better. Supposedly no money is exchanged between the two of them & it was just done out of friendship.

I like how you state NO CONVO.

Basically, you're saying. "take the limited (and skewed) information I am giving you and vote the way I want the poll to turn out".

I do think you have a future in politics.

 

[KCitons]

No convo, just a yes/no poll to put a raging argument to bed.

Redraft league - Team A is 3-7 and season is just about over. He makes a trade with his best friend Team B who is 6-4.

Player A trades 3 top 10 guys to player B for an injured guy, a backup, & a number 2 guy. After commissioner disqualifies both teams, player A comes clean to commissioner that he tanked and A & B made the deal to make Player B's team better. Supposedly no money is exchanged between the two of them & it was just done out of friendship.

I like how you state NO CONVO. Basically, you're saying. "take the limited (and skewed) information I am giving you and vote the way I want the poll to turn out".

I do think you have a future in politics.

It's bothersome how stupid you are!So far you, Movetoskypager, & 1 random don't think this is not cheating or collusion

That's twice where you have called me stupid. Do I need to go off on a rant and tell you about my financial history?

 

[dboysrock94]

Possibly you were in on a side of this and trying to get it justified?

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

dont care, quit cloggin the pool with your nonsense

 

[MoveToSkypager]

dont care, quit cloggin the pool with your nonsense

Why does he do this?

Just Cuz.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Cheating does not necessarily equal collusion

 

[fantasycurse42]

How this isn't unanimous is amazing.

 

[Bayhawks]

How this isn't unanimous is amazing.

Well when you selectively present information that only supports the bogus conclusion that you come to, not everyone will be able to sort through your BS to see the truth.

 

[fantasycurse42]

How this isn't unanimous is amazing.

Well when you selectively present information that only supports the bogus conclusion that you come to, not everyone will be able to sort through your BS to see the truth.

This is the exact scenario.

 

[KCitons]

What does the rest of the rosters look like? Is the injured player Shane Vereen? And the backup Josh McCown?

You might think it's clear, but it's not that way for everyone.

 

[mbuehner]

Just go away.

 

[Pantherz]

Anyone who doesn't see this is collusion to gain an unfair advantage over the rest of the league should find a new hobby. Even if the league is slack and has no specific written rules on how to handle it, Forget the word "collusion" since so many seem to have a hard time with it. It's simply cheating. Two teams combined their best players on to one team. In essence saying, screw the rest of you, we are going to steal the league money by cheating. How is the rest of the league supposed to compete? Next year should everyone pair up partners and then in week six decide which players to combine on to one team?

They cheated. The only question there ever was is whether to boot them because it is a group of friends.

 

[KCitons]

Anyone who doesn't see this is collusion to gain an unfair advantage over the rest of the league should find a new hobby. Even if the league is slack and has no specific written rules on how to handle it, Forget the word "collusion" since so many seem to have a hard time with it. It's simply cheating. Two teams combined their best players on to one team. In essence saying, screw the rest of you, we are going to steal the league money by cheating. How is the rest of the league supposed to compete? Next year should everyone pair up partners and then in week six decide which players to combine on to one team?

They cheated. The only question there ever was is whether to boot them because it is a group of friends.

First off, we don't know what other players were on the rosters. So, can you say that they combined their best players on one team?

Secondly, while one owner admitted to making the trade due to his season being over, there was never any agreement to share prize money.

 

[mbuehner]

Anyone who doesn't see this is collusion to gain an unfair advantage over the rest of the league should find a new hobby. Even if the league is slack and has no specific written rules on how to handle it, Forget the word "collusion" since so many seem to have a hard time with it. It's simply cheating. Two teams combined their best players on to one team. In essence saying, screw the rest of you, we are going to steal the league money by cheating. How is the rest of the league supposed to compete? Next year should everyone pair up partners and then in week six decide which players to combine on to one team?

They cheated. The only question there ever was is whether to boot them because it is a group of friends.

If it occurred the way he described it. Which it may well not have if you read the other thread.

The debate turned into the dead parrot sketch a long time ago. He assumed his conclusions and isnt going to acknowledge anything outside of those assumptions.

 

[fantasycurse42]

Anyone who doesn't see this is collusion to gain an unfair advantage over the rest of the league should find a new hobby. Even if the league is slack and has no specific written rules on how to handle it, Forget the word "collusion" since so many seem to have a hard time with it. It's simply cheating. Two teams combined their best players on to one team. In essence saying, screw the rest of you, we are going to steal the league money by cheating. How is the rest of the league supposed to compete? Next year should everyone pair up partners and then in week six decide which players to combine on to one team?

They cheated. The only question there ever was is whether to boot them because it is a group of friends.

If it occurred the way he described it. Which it may well not have if you read the other thread.

The debate turned into the dead parrot sketch a long time ago. He assumed his conclusions and isnt going to acknowledge anything outside of those assumptions.

Keep arguing semantics, bumping, and then complaining... here is the exact explanation (keep in mind these two are best friends):

Commish got in touch with 3-7... He admitted the deal was no good and apologized. His explanation was as follows:

Him and 6-4 had been working on a legit deal for weeks but couldn't ever quite get there. 3-7 was a team that lost a ton of close games, suffered a lot of heartbreakers - after his last loss this week he had finally given up and didn't give a ####. Afterwards, 6-4 had been begging him to make this deal (which was a much ####tier variation of a deal they negotiated a few weeks ago), he said he finally obliged. He said that he didn't take any money on the deal (he is fairly well off & commish said he sounded sincere).

This is textbook.

 

[Johnny Blood]

"What does top 10 mean?" -- NO CONVERSATION!

"What does #2 mean?" -- NO CONVERSATION!

"What does injured mean?" -- NO CONVERSATION!

"Who are the players, then?" -- NO CONVERSATION!

Just ask for a rubber stamp next time.

 

[fantasycurse42]

"What does top 10 mean?" -- NO CONVERSATION!

"What does #2 mean?" -- NO CONVERSATION!

"What does injured mean?" -- NO CONVERSATION!

"Who are the players, then?" -- NO CONVERSATION!

Just ask for a rubber stamp next time.

AJ Green, Moreno, Russell Wilson for Cutler, BJGE, & Fitzgerald

 

[mbuehner]

Anyone who doesn't see this is collusion to gain an unfair advantage over the rest of the league should find a new hobby. Even if the league is slack and has no specific written rules on how to handle it, Forget the word "collusion" since so many seem to have a hard time with it. It's simply cheating. Two teams combined their best players on to one team. In essence saying, screw the rest of you, we are going to steal the league money by cheating. How is the rest of the league supposed to compete? Next year should everyone pair up partners and then in week six decide which players to combine on to one team?

They cheated. The only question there ever was is whether to boot them because it is a group of friends.

If it occurred the way he described it. Which it may well not have if you read the other thread.The debate turned into the dead parrot sketch a long time ago. He assumed his conclusions and isnt going to acknowledge anything outside of those assumptions.

Keep arguing semantics, bumping, and then complaining... here is the exact explanation (keep in mind these two are best friends):Commish got in touch with 3-7... He admitted the deal was no good and apologized. His explanation was as follows:

Him and 6-4 had been working on a legit deal for weeks but couldn't ever quite get there. 3-7 was a team that lost a ton of close games, suffered a lot of heartbreakers - after his last loss this week he had finally given up and didn't give a ####. Afterwards, 6-4 had been begging him to make this deal (which was a much ####tier variation of a deal they negotiated a few weeks ago), he said he finally obliged. He said that he didn't take any money on the deal (he is fairly well off & commish said he sounded sincere).

This is textbook.

Let me make this very clear- judging by the way youve conducted yourself, I have no faith that the facts you have presented are accurate.

 

[KCitons]

Anyone who doesn't see this is collusion to gain an unfair advantage over the rest of the league should find a new hobby. Even if the league is slack and has no specific written rules on how to handle it, Forget the word "collusion" since so many seem to have a hard time with it. It's simply cheating. Two teams combined their best players on to one team. In essence saying, screw the rest of you, we are going to steal the league money by cheating. How is the rest of the league supposed to compete? Next year should everyone pair up partners and then in week six decide which players to combine on to one team?

They cheated. The only question there ever was is whether to boot them because it is a group of friends.

If it occurred the way he described it. Which it may well not have if you read the other thread.The debate turned into the dead parrot sketch a long time ago. He assumed his conclusions and isnt going to acknowledge anything outside of those assumptions.

Keep arguing semantics, bumping, and then complaining... here is the exact explanation (keep in mind these two are best friends):Commish got in touch with 3-7... He admitted the deal was no good and apologized. His explanation was as follows:

Him and 6-4 had been working on a legit deal for weeks but couldn't ever quite get there. 3-7 was a team that lost a ton of close games, suffered a lot of heartbreakers - after his last loss this week he had finally given up and didn't give a ####. Afterwards, 6-4 had been begging him to make this deal (which was a much ####tier variation of a deal they negotiated a few weeks ago), he said he finally obliged. He said that he didn't take any money on the deal (he is fairly well off & commish said he sounded sincere).

This is textbook.

Let me make this very clear- judging by the way youve conducted yourself, I have no faith that the facts you have presented are accurate.

This

Why not link to the league? Is there something to hide?

 

[fantasycurse42]

Then leave the convo instead of participating. Fairly simple. These are facts exactly as presented from beginning of the thread.

 

[KCitons]

Then leave the convo instead of participating. Fairly simple. These are facts exactly as presented from beginning of the thread.

Not really, this is coming from you. How do we know they are facts? Every other thread has to provide a link to prove facts, why doesn't this apply to you?

Also, why didn't you include a secondary poll asking if the owners should be kicked out of the league and have their fees forfeited?

 

[fantasycurse42]

Anyone who doesn't see this is collusion to gain an unfair advantage over the rest of the league should find a new hobby. Even if the league is slack and has no specific written rules on how to handle it, Forget the word "collusion" since so many seem to have a hard time with it. It's simply cheating. Two teams combined their best players on to one team. In essence saying, screw the rest of you, we are going to steal the league money by cheating. How is the rest of the league supposed to compete? Next year should everyone pair up partners and then in week six decide which players to combine on to one team?

They cheated. The only question there ever was is whether to boot them because it is a group of friends.

If it occurred the way he described it. Which it may well not have if you read the other thread.The debate turned into the dead parrot sketch a long time ago. He assumed his conclusions and isnt going to acknowledge anything outside of those assumptions.

Keep arguing semantics, bumping, and then complaining... here is the exact explanation (keep in mind these two are best friends):Commish got in touch with 3-7... He admitted the deal was no good and apologized. His explanation was as follows:

Him and 6-4 had been working on a legit deal for weeks but couldn't ever quite get there. 3-7 was a team that lost a ton of close games, suffered a lot of heartbreakers - after his last loss this week he had finally given up and didn't give a ####. Afterwards, 6-4 had been begging him to make this deal (which was a much ####tier variation of a deal they negotiated a few weeks ago), he said he finally obliged. He said that he didn't take any money on the deal (he is fairly well off & commish said he sounded sincere).

This is textbook.

Let me make this very clear- judging by the way youve conducted yourself, I have no faith that the facts you have presented are accurate.

ThisWhy not link to the league? Is there something to hide?

You want phone numbers to the participants too? BC they care about your input.

You win, not collusion...

 

[FUBAR]

1. a secret agreement, especially for fraudulent or treacherous purposes; conspiracy: Some of his employees were acting in collusion to rob him.

2. a secret understanding between two or more persons to gain something illegally, to defraud another of his or her rights, or to appear as adversaries though in agreement: collusion of husband and wife to obtain a divorce.

It's not a secret agreement.

Appear as adversaries though in agreement?

Team a didn't gain anything but, based on what you describe, it's unethical.

 

[KCitons]

Anyone who doesn't see this is collusion to gain an unfair advantage over the rest of the league should find a new hobby. Even if the league is slack and has no specific written rules on how to handle it, Forget the word "collusion" since so many seem to have a hard time with it. It's simply cheating. Two teams combined their best players on to one team. In essence saying, screw the rest of you, we are going to steal the league money by cheating. How is the rest of the league supposed to compete? Next year should everyone pair up partners and then in week six decide which players to combine on to one team?

They cheated. The only question there ever was is whether to boot them because it is a group of friends.

If it occurred the way he described it. Which it may well not have if you read the other thread.The debate turned into the dead parrot sketch a long time ago. He assumed his conclusions and isnt going to acknowledge anything outside of those assumptions.

Keep arguing semantics, bumping, and then complaining... here is the exact explanation (keep in mind these two are best friends):Commish got in touch with 3-7... He admitted the deal was no good and apologized. His explanation was as follows:

Him and 6-4 had been working on a legit deal for weeks but couldn't ever quite get there. 3-7 was a team that lost a ton of close games, suffered a lot of heartbreakers - after his last loss this week he had finally given up and didn't give a ####. Afterwards, 6-4 had been begging him to make this deal (which was a much ####tier variation of a deal they negotiated a few weeks ago), he said he finally obliged. He said that he didn't take any money on the deal (he is fairly well off & commish said he sounded sincere).

This is textbook.

Let me make this very clear- judging by the way youve conducted yourself, I have no faith that the facts you have presented are accurate.

ThisWhy not link to the league? Is there something to hide?

You want phone numbers to the participants too? BC they care about your input.

You win, not collusion...

Another sidestep to avoid solving the problem. Still no link.

Oh, and you forgot to call me stupid. You're slipping.

 

[JohnnyU]

Anyone that would argue this ISN'T a textbook case of collusion are just being contrary for whatever reason. Any person using reasonable judgement knows this is collusion.

 

[fantasycurse42]

Sure KC, inviting a group of strangers to our league, the other participants would be thrilled.

I'll leave you my social security number too.

I don't think calling you stupid is necessary any longer.

I told you that you won, it's over - just unethical and not collusion.

 

[davearm]

No convo, just a yes/no poll to put a raging argument to bed.

Redraft league - Team A is 3-7 and season is just about over. He makes a trade with his best friend Team B who is 6-4.

Player A trades 3 top 10 guys to player B for an injured guy, a backup, & a number 2 guy. After commissioner disqualifies both teams, player A comes clean to commissioner that he tanked and A & B made the deal to make Player B's team better. Supposedly no money is exchanged between the two of them & it was just done out of friendship.

"A & B made the deal to make Player B's team better" is where you go off the rails.

Player B was trying to make his own team better.

Player A never said he cared about making B better. In fact he said something different entirely.

 

[KCitons]

Sure KC, inviting a group of strangers to our league, the other participants would be thrilled.

I'll leave you my social security number too.

I don't think calling you stupid is necessary any longer.

I told you that you won, it's over - just unethical and not collusion.

And I'm the stupid one? You can link without giving people access to the league? I can look at 100's of MFL leagues, or search for leagues on their web site. It's not Top Secret Government info. Unless you have something to hide.

 

[Pantherz]

"What does top 10 mean?" -- NO CONVERSATION!

"What does #2 mean?" -- NO CONVERSATION!

"What does injured mean?" -- NO CONVERSATION!

"Who are the players, then?" -- NO CONVERSATION!

Just ask for a rubber stamp next time.

AJ Green, Moreno, Russell Wilson for Cutler, BJGE, & Fitzgerald

AJ Green >>>Fitzgerald

Russell Wilson >>> Injured Cutler

Moreno >>>>>> BJGE

Any format, any roster situation. If even one of these went the other way, an argument could be made.

Tanking owner admitted it, correct? Was helping a friend?

What am I missing?

 

[KCitons]

"What does top 10 mean?" -- NO CONVERSATION!

"What does #2 mean?" -- NO CONVERSATION!

"What does injured mean?" -- NO CONVERSATION!

"Who are the players, then?" -- NO CONVERSATION!

Just ask for a rubber stamp next time.

AJ Green, Moreno, Russell Wilson for Cutler, BJGE, & Fitzgerald

AJ Green >>>Fitzgerald

Russell Wilson >>> Injured Cutler

Moreno >>>>>> BJGE

Any format, any roster situation. If even one of these went the other way, an argument could be made.

Tanking owner admitted it, correct? Was helping a friend?

What am I missing?

OK, I can admit to the trade being lopsided. But this thread is about collusion. Your other post said the two teams combined their best players, we don't know this. You also said that they did it for a monetary reason. They didn't

We are now left with analyzing a bad trade, not collusion. Two people were kicked out of the league and/or required to forfeit their fees based on a bad trade.

 

[KCitons]

Sure KC, inviting a group of strangers to our league, the other participants would be thrilled.

I'll leave you my social security number too.

I don't think calling you stupid is necessary any longer.

I told you that you won, it's over - just unethical and not collusion.

Here let me show you how it's done.

 

[Pantherz]

"What does top 10 mean?" -- NO CONVERSATION!

"What does #2 mean?" -- NO CONVERSATION!

"What does injured mean?" -- NO CONVERSATION!

"Who are the players, then?" -- NO CONVERSATION!

Just ask for a rubber stamp next time.

AJ Green, Moreno, Russell Wilson for Cutler, BJGE, & Fitzgerald

AJ Green >>>Fitzgerald

Russell Wilson >>> Injured Cutler

Moreno >>>>>> BJGE

Any format, any roster situation. If even one of these went the other way, an argument could be made.

Tanking owner admitted it, correct? Was helping a friend?

What am I missing?

OK, I can admit to the trade being lopsided. But this thread is about collusion. Your other post said the two teams combined their best players, we don't know this. You also said that they did it for a monetary reason. They didn't

We are now left with analyzing a bad trade, not collusion. Two people were kicked out of the league and/or required to forfeit their fees based on a bad trade.

Except for the fact that there's simply no way either of the two teams believed this was a fair trade, or that it wouldn't compromise the league. I can't give advice on how to handle the booted from the league situation, as that depends on the group of friends involved, and how much they value the friendship, etc. That seems the more important part here, as it should be in real life friendships.

I won't even attempt to argue the semantics of the word collusion since this board seems to have a lot of trouble with that.

I can say this, that after 24 years in multiple leagues with friends, co-workers, that no one has ever attempted this kind of blatant cheating. Not once with about 60+ collective seasons involved. Just lucky I guess, and thankful I haven't been put in this situation as Commissioner.

 

[buck naked]

Just what we needed. ANOTHER collusion thread, ON THE SAME STUPID ISSUE

 

[RenegadeGM]

Another thread on this trade? Really?

 

[Phenix]

Just what we needed. ANOTHER collusion thread, ON THE SAME STUPID ISSUE

Thanks officer stalker!

 

[Nugget]

It sounds like tanking for sure, not sure one collusion. don't you need two teams to collude?

 

[Interseptopus]

Another thread on this trade? Really?

He's not getting the answer he wants so he starts a brand new thread and cherry picks information he wants to share to skew the results of a poll

 

[ldizzle]

Where is the who gives a crap option? Thats my choice

 

[Interseptopus]

I like my eggs over easy. Lately I've had a real challenge with either cooking them too long and creating over-medium eggs, or cooking them to little and getting some runny whites near the yolk.

 

[buck naked]

Just what we needed. ANOTHER collusion thread, ON THE SAME STUPID ISSUE

Thanks officer stalker!

I just stalk stupid hypocritical people like you. You're welcome.

Edit - actually, Meyer31, too. So now you can conclude the class of person you fall into.

 

[Interseptopus]

Just what we needed. ANOTHER collusion thread, ON THE SAME STUPID ISSUE

Thanks officer stalker!

I just stalk stupid hypocritical people like you. You're welcome.Edit - actually, Meyer31, too. So now you can conclude the class of person you fall into.

Phenix reminds me of Amanda Bynes. The top local radio station here in the morning features two guys who often talk about "show biz news". Amanda Bynes is frequently featured as calling someone her favorite insult, "ugly", in some shape or form. Phenix's word is just "stalker" but she is just spas delusional as Bynes. It's comical

 

[ragnarok628]

why does this thread have to be about fantasycurse##'s situation? The poll is worthwhile on it's own, regardless of any drama that is getting brought in from another thread. There is a serious problem with people who don't understand that this is collusion. money changing hands is not a prerequisite for collusion. this seems to be a sticking point with some people who say that the team getting the short end of the trade 'gains nothing' therefore it's not collusion.

This situation is an agreement made between two players, expressly intended to give one team an unfair advantage. we don't need to know both teams rosters because we're not trying to determine if the trade was 'fair' or whether it somehow made sense for both trade partners; in this situation it has been admitted that the trade was not designed to improve both teams. even if you could find some argument where the trade did make sense, it would be a moot point because of the admitted intent of the traders.

the bottom line for me is that i think everyone agrees that what happened shouldn't happen in FF, and the vast vast majority i think would agree that this trade should be considered illegal in FF; but there are some rules lawyers who would like to semantically differentiate this as unethical behavior rather than collusion. I don't know WHY they feel the need to do this (perhaps to justify different levels of punishment?), but it is incorrect. This was collusion, plain and simple.