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US economy thread (3 Viewers)

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I'd probably feel differently if I were in my late 20s, renting an apartment and trying to figure out how I'm supposed to afford a home right now.
People of any age need to lighten up on the 'I must be a homeowner' thing.
No, being a homeowner is good. There's nothing wrong with renting when you're young, but you're putting yourself way behind the 8-ball financially by not buying an affordable home and locking in your housing expenses for the next 30 years. The "affordable home" part is obviously a huge sticking point with mortgage rates over 8% and housing prices in most cities being what they are.
 
It is a big deal at Wal-Mart
There was story about it recently where Wal-Mart admitted they have a real problem with self checkout and were limiting it to folks with less than 10 items
My line looked like a last stop at Costco before the end of the world for some of these people....

I had 2 items, one was a box of Swedish fish, the other was a can of overpriced Penn Tennis balls, the wait just wasn't worth the reward
Tennis balls used to be $2 a can at Wal-Mart, now they are $4 plus tax, they sell them for $5 at the tennis club, I'll just get them there.
I can get a case delivered for $4 a can x24, not saving any money at Wal-Mart, in fact I lose money with the time you have to invest just to get out of there.
Unless you have really morbid taste in people-watching, I'm struggling to understand why you made a trip to Wal Mart to purchase about $7 worth of merchandise. I don't have anger-management issues, and I'm feeling the urge to punch somebody just thinking about it.
 
My problem is when they want to look at my receipt on the way out. Look pal, if you want me to ring up my own stuff, bag my own stuff, and self-checkout, then you better be prepared for me to be done with this experience. I'm in the "do you suspect me of a crime?" mindset. I say "no thanks" and walk right on by. If they don't like it, they can call the cops. lol
 
This thread had been MOPPED
It needed some cleaning up, some of you act like the price of goods has not gone up astronomically of late
Not you of course GM, but some seem to think things are just fine
You don't buy new cars so I know you're already one of those millionaire next door types

:wink:

-Disappointed you didn't enjoy my Wal-Mart story
In their defense, you acted like self checkout at Wal-Mart is a big deal, then complained about other people being out of touch. ;)
It is a big deal at Wal-Mart
There was story about it recently where Wal-Mart admitted they have a real problem with self checkout and were limiting it to folks with less than 10 items
My line looked like a last stop at Costco before the end of the world for some of these people....

I had 2 items, one was a box of Swedish fish, the other was a can of overpriced Penn Tennis balls, the wait just wasn't worth the reward
Tennis balls used to be $2 a can at Wal-Mart, now they are $4 plus tax, they sell them for $5 at the tennis club, I'll just get them there.
I can get a case delivered for $4 a can x24, not saving any money at Wal-Mart, in fact I lose money with the time you have to invest just to get out of there.
My Walmart has three groups of self checkouts. Two of them have been closed the last two times I have been there and they have had more traditional checkouts open.
 
It is a big deal at Wal-Mart
There was story about it recently where Wal-Mart admitted they have a real problem with self checkout and were limiting it to folks with less than 10 items
My line looked like a last stop at Costco before the end of the world for some of these people....

I had 2 items, one was a box of Swedish fish, the other was a can of overpriced Penn Tennis balls, the wait just wasn't worth the reward
Tennis balls used to be $2 a can at Wal-Mart, now they are $4 plus tax, they sell them for $5 at the tennis club, I'll just get them there.
I can get a case delivered for $4 a can x24, not saving any money at Wal-Mart, in fact I lose money with the time you have to invest just to get out of there.
Unless you have really morbid taste in people-watching, I'm struggling to understand why you made a trip to Wal Mart to purchase about $7 worth of merchandise. I don't have anger-management issues, and I'm feeling the urge to punch somebody just thinking about it.
The Wal-Mart sits very close to the Home Depot on the main road that runs thru Jupiter and I had been next door at Home Depot acting masculine and touching power tools I had no intention of ever purchasing and so I thought I could pull off a quick stop at Wal-Mart, had been a long time since I had been in one and wanted more than the things I had in my hands but lost my appetite to shop, quickly.

I felt like I needed to call for help, not for me but for the poor employees trapped in that place.
I shouldn't be wasting the precious time we have in life at these places but...it's America!
I doubt I go back inside one for a long while.

It's just not as exciting filling up a cart online and then waiting for the mail to finally show up, by the time it arrives i'm almost ready to just send it back.
 
My problem is when they want to look at my receipt on the way out. Look pal, if you want me to ring up my own stuff, bag my own stuff, and self-checkout, then you better be prepared for me to be done with this experience. I'm in the "do you suspect me of a crime?" mindset. I say "no thanks" and walk right on by. If they don't like it, they can call the cops. lol

I've never had anyone ask this except at Costco where it's procedure.

What I don't get is why they have the little weight thing built into the machine where it throws up a big alert that someone has to come over for if the weight on the item doesn't match up with what you bagged (and is way too sensitive and goes off erroneously all the time). If I was going to steal someone I would just not scan it at all, not scan something and then put something else in the bag in some completely unnecessary Indiana Jones switcheroo.
 
Relative to the past 100+ years of BLS data collection, unemployment is currently very low by historical standards. That's just facts based on data.

I'd argue that BLS data is more reliable than your personal feeling about how the economy is doing, but to each their own.

Below a certain income/financial-comfort level, people care a whole lot more about their personal economy than the overall U.S. economy.

Stocks booming? Unemployment at a 40-year low? Record profits at BigCompany, Inc.? Awesome. Doesn't put an extra dime in my pocket. And my extra dime matters to me far, far more than extra billions for GM or extra trillions for the US GDP.
 
Where is the economy hurting? I know I keep reading about but it is hard to pinpoint exactly for me.

I have friends in the food, hospitality and hotel business who are killing it right now. The trades and service people around Metro Detroit can`t keep up.

In my business GM is up 21% in third quarter from last year, Ford sold 40K more vehicles in third quarter than last, Stellantis 20K more. Every bar and restaurant I go are always busy no matter the day and in all different areas. Same with Costco, and supermarkets. I know a couple people at the Costco I go to and they said the had their best week ever for a September this year since they have been open. Cant find a house that does not sell in days unless total trash.
I wonder who can afford all this spending? Debt accumulation must be at an all time high right now. Folks are gonna have to pay the piper at some point.
WASHINGTON (Reuters) -The U.S. economy grew at its fastest pace in nearly two years in the third quarter as higher wages from a tight labor market helped to power consumer spending, once again defying dire warnings of a recession that have lingered since 2022.

Gross domestic product increased at a 4.9% annualized rate last quarter, the fastest since the fourth quarter of 2021, the Commerce Department's Bureau of Economic Analysis said in its advance estimate of third-quarter GDP growth.
Interesting......I'm just going by my own experience right now. My wages have not kept up with the cost of goods and services. My wife and I both work in healthcare and do ok, but we are feeling the pinch. Blows my mind that people are lining up to buy $80k trucks
 
I work at a company that has ~100k employees. They have given out 9% worth of cost of living adjustments since beginning of 2020.

Goods have gone up alot more than 9% since that time. The average employee that works where I am at has had significantly reduced buying power.

Our net take-home pay has gone down since then beginning of 2020 (no raises, cost of health insurance etc. has increased). Would love to work at a job with a COLA.
 
Where is the economy hurting? I know I keep reading about but it is hard to pinpoint exactly for me.

I have friends in the food, hospitality and hotel business who are killing it right now. The trades and service people around Metro Detroit can`t keep up.

In my business GM is up 21% in third quarter from last year, Ford sold 40K more vehicles in third quarter than last, Stellantis 20K more. Every bar and restaurant I go are always busy no matter the day and in all different areas. Same with Costco, and supermarkets. I know a couple people at the Costco I go to and they said the had their best week ever for a September this year since they have been open. Cant find a house that does not sell in days unless total trash.
I wonder who can afford all this spending? Debt accumulation must be at an all time high right now. Folks are gonna have to pay the piper at some point.
WASHINGTON (Reuters) -The U.S. economy grew at its fastest pace in nearly two years in the third quarter as higher wages from a tight labor market helped to power consumer spending, once again defying dire warnings of a recession that have lingered since 2022.

Gross domestic product increased at a 4.9% annualized rate last quarter, the fastest since the fourth quarter of 2021, the Commerce Department's Bureau of Economic Analysis said in its advance estimate of third-quarter GDP growth.
Interesting......I'm just going by my own experience right now. My wages have not kept up with the cost of goods and services. My wife and I both work in healthcare and do ok, but we are feeling the pinch. Blows my mind that people are lining up to buy $80k trucks
100%
 
No, being a homeowner is good. There's nothing wrong with renting when you're young, but you're putting yourself way behind the 8-ball financially by not buying an affordable home and locking in your housing expenses for the next 30 years. The "affordable home" part is obviously a huge sticking point with mortgage rates over 8% and housing prices in most cities being what they are.
Maybe some places have better inventory than others ... but you have to be pretty lucky over those 30 years not to have a financially-devastating repair spring up -- if not several.

Also, I'm betting home insurance is close to free up there -- and has remained stable -- compared to down here in Hurricane Alley (and no, the answer is not for all but the wealthy to drop life and move away).
 
Where is the economy hurting? I know I keep reading about but it is hard to pinpoint exactly for me.

I have friends in the food, hospitality and hotel business who are killing it right now. The trades and service people around Metro Detroit can`t keep up.

In my business GM is up 21% in third quarter from last year, Ford sold 40K more vehicles in third quarter than last, Stellantis 20K more. Every bar and restaurant I go are always busy no matter the day and in all different areas. Same with Costco, and supermarkets. I know a couple people at the Costco I go to and they said the had their best week ever for a September this year since they have been open. Cant find a house that does not sell in days unless total trash.
I wonder who can afford all this spending? Debt accumulation must be at an all time high right now. Folks are gonna have to pay the piper at some point.
WASHINGTON (Reuters) -The U.S. economy grew at its fastest pace in nearly two years in the third quarter as higher wages from a tight labor market helped to power consumer spending, once again defying dire warnings of a recession that have lingered since 2022.

Gross domestic product increased at a 4.9% annualized rate last quarter, the fastest since the fourth quarter of 2021, the Commerce Department's Bureau of Economic Analysis said in its advance estimate of third-quarter GDP growth.
Interesting......I'm just going by my own experience right now. My wages have not kept up with the cost of goods and services. My wife and I both work in healthcare and do ok, but we are feeling the pinch. Blows my mind that people are lining up to buy $80k trucks

Blows me away as well, and I am in the business. I would never pay 80K for any vehicle.

I agree everything has gone up. simple things like Kashi cereal that I like was 2.49, 2.99 during COVID, now is 4.99. That is not a 10-15% hike.

Even if inflation cools do you really think restaurants and bars will change menus to lower the price?

Was at a bar last week. A basic chicken wrap was 15.99, server said I could get fries instead of chips for 3.99. 20 for wrap and fries? No chips are good. And it was nothing special, just filler. Carryout pizza last weekend was 25.00 for a medium special. And the mediums are the size of a small now.

So I get it.
 
Where is the economy hurting? I know I keep reading about but it is hard to pinpoint exactly for me.

I have friends in the food, hospitality and hotel business who are killing it right now. The trades and service people around Metro Detroit can`t keep up.

In my business GM is up 21% in third quarter from last year, Ford sold 40K more vehicles in third quarter than last, Stellantis 20K more. Every bar and restaurant I go are always busy no matter the day and in all different areas. Same with Costco, and supermarkets. I know a couple people at the Costco I go to and they said the had their best week ever for a September this year since they have been open. Cant find a house that does not sell in days unless total trash.
I wonder who can afford all this spending? Debt accumulation must be at an all time high right now. Folks are gonna have to pay the piper at some point.
WASHINGTON (Reuters) -The U.S. economy grew at its fastest pace in nearly two years in the third quarter as higher wages from a tight labor market helped to power consumer spending, once again defying dire warnings of a recession that have lingered since 2022.

Gross domestic product increased at a 4.9% annualized rate last quarter, the fastest since the fourth quarter of 2021, the Commerce Department's Bureau of Economic Analysis said in its advance estimate of third-quarter GDP growth.
Interesting......I'm just going by my own experience right now. My wages have not kept up with the cost of goods and services. My wife and I both work in healthcare and do ok, but we are feeling the pinch. Blows my mind that people are lining up to buy $80k trucks

Blows me away as well, and I am in the business. I would never pay 80K for any vehicle.

I agree everything has gone up. simple things like Kashi cereal that I like was 2.49, 2.99 during COVID, now is 4.99. That is not a 10-15% hike.

Even if inflation cools do you really think restaurants and bars will change menus to lower the price?

Was at a bar last week. A basic chicken wrap was 15.99, server said I could get fries instead of chips for 3.99. 20 for wrap and fries? No chips are good. And it was nothing special, just filler. Carryout pizza last weekend was 25.00 for a medium special. And the mediums are the size of a small now.

So I get it.

The only way we get prices that actually LOWER is with a major 2008-like recession. But most people are rooting for a soft landing, which isn't going to deflate prices so you've kinda gotta choose one or the other.

We've skipped the last couple recessions with monetary policy so we're probably due for a big one, but people aren't willing to let normal economic cycles play out anymore so we policy around them and end up with higher prices.
 
Where is the economy hurting? I know I keep reading about but it is hard to pinpoint exactly for me.

I have friends in the food, hospitality and hotel business who are killing it right now. The trades and service people around Metro Detroit can`t keep up.

In my business GM is up 21% in third quarter from last year, Ford sold 40K more vehicles in third quarter than last, Stellantis 20K more. Every bar and restaurant I go are always busy no matter the day and in all different areas. Same with Costco, and supermarkets. I know a couple people at the Costco I go to and they said the had their best week ever for a September this year since they have been open. Cant find a house that does not sell in days unless total trash.
I wonder who can afford all this spending? Debt accumulation must be at an all time high right now. Folks are gonna have to pay the piper at some point.
WASHINGTON (Reuters) -The U.S. economy grew at its fastest pace in nearly two years in the third quarter as higher wages from a tight labor market helped to power consumer spending, once again defying dire warnings of a recession that have lingered since 2022.

Gross domestic product increased at a 4.9% annualized rate last quarter, the fastest since the fourth quarter of 2021, the Commerce Department's Bureau of Economic Analysis said in its advance estimate of third-quarter GDP growth.
Interesting......I'm just going by my own experience right now. My wages have not kept up with the cost of goods and services. My wife and I both work in healthcare and do ok, but we are feeling the pinch. Blows my mind that people are lining up to buy $80k trucks

Blows me away as well, and I am in the business. I would never pay 80K for any vehicle.

I agree everything has gone up. simple things like Kashi cereal that I like was 2.49, 2.99 during COVID, now is 4.99. That is not a 10-15% hike.

Even if inflation cools do you really think restaurants and bars will change menus to lower the price?

Was at a bar last week. A basic chicken wrap was 15.99, server said I could get fries instead of chips for 3.99. 20 for wrap and fries? No chips are good. And it was nothing special, just filler. Carryout pizza last weekend was 25.00 for a medium special. And the mediums are the size of a small now.

So I get it.

The only way we get prices that actually LOWER is with a major 2008-like recession. But most people are rooting for a soft landing, which isn't going to deflate prices so you've kinda gotta choose one or the other.

We've skipped the last couple recessions with monetary policy so we're probably due for a big one, but people aren't willing to let normal economic cycles play out anymore so we policy around them and end up with higher prices.
And more debt
 
Then let me clarify. It's bad that real weekly wages have been flat for 20 years.
Explain this please. By real wages we mean adjusted for inflation. Why is it bad that we’re, on average, keeping up with inflation? It would be bad for an individual who never got a real raise, but that’s not what we’re talking about here.
Because most people in most countries want their standard of living to increase over time. This is achieved through greater purchasing power afforded by growing real wages.
Most individuals standard of living does increase.
I’m not sold on the idea that the US as a whole has to increase our average standard of living.
 
All I know is my wife and I are making about the same as the last several years and buying about the same stuff but at the end of the month there is less or no cash going into our savings account.

And our household income is pretty good. Something's going on and it don't feel good.
 
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Relative to the past 100+ years of BLS data collection, unemployment is currently very low by historical standards. That's just facts based on data.

I'd argue that BLS data is more reliable than your personal feeling about how the economy is doing, but to each their own.

Below a certain income/financial-comfort level, people care a whole lot more about their personal economy than the overall U.S. economy.

Stocks booming? Unemployment at a 40-year low? Record profits at BigCompany, Inc.? Awesome. Doesn't put an extra dime in my pocket. And my extra dime matters to me far, far more than extra billions for GM or extra trillions for the US GDP.
I agree with everything in your post, and it doesn’t contradict anything I’ve posted today. The overall economy can be doing well despite some individuals struggling.
 
No, being a homeowner is good. There's nothing wrong with renting when you're young, but you're putting yourself way behind the 8-ball financially by not buying an affordable home and locking in your housing expenses for the next 30 years. The "affordable home" part is obviously a huge sticking point with mortgage rates over 8% and housing prices in most cities being what they are.
Maybe some places have better inventory than others ... but you have to be pretty lucky over those 30 years not to have a financially-devastating repair spring up -- if not several.

Also, I'm betting home insurance is close to free up there -- and has remained stable -- compared to down here in Hurricane Alley (and no, the answer is not for all but the wealthy to drop life and move away).
Are you in Florida? Yeah, I can see the issue. I haven't followed the insurance thing incredibly closely, but I know it's a big problem.

But in fairness, that's a problem that is mostly localized to Florida for fairly obvious reasons of geography. What blows my mind is how much empty space we have in the US and how expensive housing is in our major and not-so-major cities. Again, no big deal for me personally -- our house is paid off so rising housing prices are sort of a wash for us since we would be both selling and buying if we were to move. (Not really a wash, but you get the point).

If you're a young person with a career that allows you to live anywhere, like a roofer or a nurse or something, you can pick a community with affordable housing and just live there. Young professionals tend to be stuck in cities where they can't afford a house and frankly probably can't really afford rent. I know we can always just say "Well, don't live in NYC/SF/LA/CHI/wherever" but why is it so hard for those places to build housing? (Rhetorical question -- I know the answer is zoning and NIMBYism, but these are local decisions that can be fixed locally).
 
I’m not sold on the idea that the US as a whole has to increase our average standard of living.
That's okay. With rising real housing costs outpacing wage growth, massive public/private debt, and high interest rates, an increase in future standard of living is the last thing Americans will need to worry about.
 
No, being a homeowner is good. There's nothing wrong with renting when you're young, but you're putting yourself way behind the 8-ball financially by not buying an affordable home and locking in your housing expenses for the next 30 years. The "affordable home" part is obviously a huge sticking point with mortgage rates over 8% and housing prices in most cities being what they are.
Maybe some places have better inventory than others ... but you have to be pretty lucky over those 30 years not to have a financially-devastating repair spring up -- if not several.

Also, I'm betting home insurance is close to free up there -- and has remained stable -- compared to down here in Hurricane Alley (and no, the answer is not for all but the wealthy to drop life and move away).
Are you in Florida? Yeah, I can see the issue. I haven't followed the insurance thing incredibly closely, but I know it's a big problem.

But in fairness, that's a problem that is mostly localized to Florida for fairly obvious reasons of geography. What blows my mind is how much empty space we have in the US and how expensive housing is in our major and not-so-major cities. Again, no big deal for me personally -- our house is paid off so rising housing prices are sort of a wash for us since we would be both selling and buying if we were to move. (Not really a wash, but you get the point).

If you're a young person with a career that allows you to live anywhere, like a roofer or a nurse or something, you can pick a community with affordable housing and just live there. Young professionals tend to be stuck in cities where they can't afford a house and frankly probably can't really afford rent. I know we can always just say "Well, don't live in NYC/SF/LA/CHI/wherever" but why is it so hard for those places to build housing? (Rhetorical question -- I know the answer is zoning and NIMBYism, but these are local decisions that can be fixed locally).
Insurance in Kansas is rising also for no apparent reason. My boss had his homeowners insurance go up 40% this year and his car another 30% with zero claims. In Kansas.

And come on, you think it's easy for a young person to just pick up and go somewhere to get affordable housing? What world do you live in? Kids coming out of college right now, even if their parents pay for college, are having a hard time to find a decent apartment in a place like Kansas City. And the kids that owe on college loans - they are extra screwed. The only places they can live right now are their parents' houses. They don't have money for security deposits much less a down payment or anything else.

Home ownership for our nations young people is a MASSIVE problem.
 
No, being a homeowner is good. There's nothing wrong with renting when you're young, but you're putting yourself way behind the 8-ball financially by not buying an affordable home and locking in your housing expenses for the next 30 years. The "affordable home" part is obviously a huge sticking point with mortgage rates over 8% and housing prices in most cities being what they are.
Maybe some places have better inventory than others ... but you have to be pretty lucky over those 30 years not to have a financially-devastating repair spring up -- if not several.

Also, I'm betting home insurance is close to free up there -- and has remained stable -- compared to down here in Hurricane Alley (and no, the answer is not for all but the wealthy to drop life and move away).
Are you in Florida? Yeah, I can see the issue. I haven't followed the insurance thing incredibly closely, but I know it's a big problem.

But in fairness, that's a problem that is mostly localized to Florida for fairly obvious reasons of geography. What blows my mind is how much empty space we have in the US and how expensive housing is in our major and not-so-major cities. Again, no big deal for me personally -- our house is paid off so rising housing prices are sort of a wash for us since we would be both selling and buying if we were to move. (Not really a wash, but you get the point).

If you're a young person with a career that allows you to live anywhere, like a roofer or a nurse or something, you can pick a community with affordable housing and just live there. Young professionals tend to be stuck in cities where they can't afford a house and frankly probably can't really afford rent. I know we can always just say "Well, don't live in NYC/SF/LA/CHI/wherever" but why is it so hard for those places to build housing? (Rhetorical question -- I know the answer is zoning and NIMBYism, but these are local decisions that can be fixed locally).
Insurance in Kansas is rising also for no apparent reason. My boss had his homeowners insurance go up 40% this year and his car another 30% with zero claims. In Kansas.

And come on, you think it's easy for a young person to just pick up and go somewhere to get affordable housing? What world do you live in? Kids coming out of college right now, even if their parents pay for college, are having a hard time to find a decent apartment in a place like Kansas City. And the kids that owe on college loans - they are extra screwed. The only places they can live right now are their parents' houses. They don't have money for security deposits much less a down payment or anything else.

Home ownership for our nations young people is a MASSIVE problem.
Yeah, it’s huge. There’s very little incentive for young people to work hard anymore. The American dream is unobtainable for most so why kill yourself.
 
All I know is my wife are making about the same as the last several years and buying about the same stuff but at the end of the month there is less or no cash going into our savings account.

And our household income is pretty good. Something's going on and it don't feel good.
Inflation is insidious. It's the prime reason for discontent despite pretty good economic times otherwise. Real declining wages are real and it stings.

but you're putting yourself way behind the 8-ball financially by not buying an affordable home and locking in your housing expenses for the next 30 years.
We all got this advice 30 years ago. Are you sure it still applies?
Real estate is very local. In many metropolises it is much better to rent. In most of the country, though (at least area wise, not population wise), owning is the long term path to economic stability.

Maybe this is me being cynical, but when you see so much about subscriptions, renting everything and owning nothing you know that someone else is extracting profit. If there is so much impetus for renting the right idea, in most cases, is to own.
 
GDP Growth in Q3: 4.9%

Economy continues to be in shambles. High GDP growth and low unemployment is apparently a horrible combination.
I don't buy reports of low unemployment. Those calculations must not include everyone who is truly unemployed and/or somehow counts those with multiple jobs twice.
There isn't anything to buy. It's data. The fact is, unemployment is historically low. Even if you think the BLS reporting/data collection is flawed, the unemployment rate is historically low compared to their past measurements.

There is something else at work here, and I think we all know what it is.
Tell us. When people are working 2-3 jobs to get by…
 
No, being a homeowner is good. There's nothing wrong with renting when you're young, but you're putting yourself way behind the 8-ball financially by not buying an affordable home and locking in your housing expenses for the next 30 years. The "affordable home" part is obviously a huge sticking point with mortgage rates over 8% and housing prices in most cities being what they are.
Maybe some places have better inventory than others ... but you have to be pretty lucky over those 30 years not to have a financially-devastating repair spring up -- if not several.

Also, I'm betting home insurance is close to free up there -- and has remained stable -- compared to down here in Hurricane Alley (and no, the answer is not for all but the wealthy to drop life and move away).
Are you in Florida? Yeah, I can see the issue. I haven't followed the insurance thing incredibly closely, but I know it's a big problem.

But in fairness, that's a problem that is mostly localized to Florida for fairly obvious reasons of geography. What blows my mind is how much empty space we have in the US and how expensive housing is in our major and not-so-major cities. Again, no big deal for me personally -- our house is paid off so rising housing prices are sort of a wash for us since we would be both selling and buying if we were to move. (Not really a wash, but you get the point).

If you're a young person with a career that allows you to live anywhere, like a roofer or a nurse or something, you can pick a community with affordable housing and just live there. Young professionals tend to be stuck in cities where they can't afford a house and frankly probably can't really afford rent. I know we can always just say "Well, don't live in NYC/SF/LA/CHI/wherever" but why is it so hard for those places to build housing? (Rhetorical question -- I know the answer is zoning and NIMBYism, but these are local decisions that can be fixed locally).
Insurance in Kansas is rising also for no apparent reason. My boss had his homeowners insurance go up 40% this year and his car another 30% with zero claims. In Kansas.

And come on, you think it's easy for a young person to just pick up and go somewhere to get affordable housing? What world do you live in? Kids coming out of college right now, even if their parents pay for college, are having a hard time to find a decent apartment in a place like Kansas City. And the kids that owe on college loans - they are extra screwed. The only places they can live right now are their parents' houses. They don't have money for security deposits much less a down payment or anything else.

Home ownership for our nations young people is a MASSIVE problem.
To be clear, I'm basically agreeing with you. I didn't know about the insurance situation you mentioned in Kansas -- now I'm curious about that -- but I completely understand that places like KC have gotten out of whack. That's what I mean. It's not just the bay area anymore that's getting weirdly unaffordable. But that's weird! I drive through KC all the time. There's plenty of land around there! It's not Manhattan island for crying out loud. It's frustrating to me to see the housing supply fail to meet demand when I know from personal experience how big a deal that is when you're young and looking to build a life.
 
Jayrod + his buddy = the economy
I'm trying to keep my snark level low on my reply here....but it is going to be tough.

No, that isn't what I said, indicated, or meant....at all. I know it is just 2 anecdotes, but they are unprecedented in the last 10 years. My "buddy" works for one of the 20 largest shipping companies in the country. If he is seeing 1/3 of the volume, that has VERY broad implications. My company has seen a 50% reduction in small business orders across the board, a pool of about 250 companies throughout Southwest Missouri. So it isn't just 2 dudes. It is our respective companies and all of the customers of those 2 companies. It is fairly widespread or I wouldn't have started the thread.
And here's my original response to those same ignorant comments.
But economy is not anywhere close to "really bad", so your initial post was completely wrong, no?
 
Insurance in Kansas is rising also for no apparent reason. My boss had his homeowners insurance go up 40% this year and his car another 30% with zero claims. In Kansas.

And come on, you think it's easy for a young person to just pick up and go somewhere to get affordable housing? What world do you live in? Kids coming out of college right now, even if their parents pay for college, are having a hard time to find a decent apartment in a place like Kansas City. And the kids that owe on college loans - they are extra screwed. The only places they can live right now are their parents' houses. They don't have money for security deposits much less a down payment or anything else.

Home ownership for our nations young people is a MASSIVE problem.
To be clear, I'm basically agreeing with you. I didn't know about the insurance situation you mentioned in Kansas -- now I'm curious about that -- but I completely understand that places like KC have gotten out of whack. That's what I mean. It's not just the bay area anymore that's getting weirdly unaffordable. But that's weird! I drive through KC all the time. There's plenty of land around there! It's not Manhattan island for crying out loud. It's frustrating to me to see the housing supply fail to meet demand when I know from personal experience how big a deal that is when you're young and looking to build a life.
Not sure what you are getting at with the plenty of land statement. You can have as much land as you want, but 1) you need someone to build the houses, 2) you need someone to buy the houses. I live in a small Town in Iowa (less than 10K people). The city started a development to build "affordable housing" making the lots 10,000 to buy, but the house couldn't be over 1400 sq ft above ground and could not have a 3rd stall garage for 5 years after built. It still cost 285,000 to build before the pandemic and the same house was 40K more after the pandemic. You can build all the houses you want, but if they can't buy them why build?
 
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GDP growth this past quarter annualized to +5%.

That's an excellent economy.

Maybe for some individuals things aren't great right now but overall as a nation, 5% growth is fantastic.
 
Jayrod + his buddy = the economy
I'm trying to keep my snark level low on my reply here....but it is going to be tough.

No, that isn't what I said, indicated, or meant....at all. I know it is just 2 anecdotes, but they are unprecedented in the last 10 years. My "buddy" works for one of the 20 largest shipping companies in the country. If he is seeing 1/3 of the volume, that has VERY broad implications. My company has seen a 50% reduction in small business orders across the board, a pool of about 250 companies throughout Southwest Missouri. So it isn't just 2 dudes. It is our respective companies and all of the customers of those 2 companies. It is fairly widespread or I wouldn't have started the thread.
And here's my original response to those same ignorant comments.
But economy is not anywhere close to "really bad", so your initial post was completely wrong, no?
Why dont you re-read what I actually wrote and try again.
 
All I know is my wife are making about the same as the last several years and buying about the same stuff but at the end of the month there is less or no cash going into our savings account.

And our household income is pretty good. Something's going on and it don't feel good.
There’s no doubt things cost more. My limited economic for dummies take is we went through unprecedented times with somewhat limited pain financially at least in my eyes relative to what was happening. We are now facing those consequences.
 

I like living in reality. And reality is the economy is in extremely good shape overall. It's almost impossible to argue otherwise if you look at the data and eliminate partisanship.
There isn't anything to buy. It's data. The fact is, unemployment is historically low. Even if you think the BLS reporting/data collection is flawed, the unemployment rate is historically low compared to their past measurements.

There is something else at work here, and I think we all know what it is.
I mean, honestly, how can you simply accuse everyone else of doing what you are doing?
I'm not doing what you and others are doing - i.e. ignoring the leading economic indicators while saying you don't "feel" like the economy is performing well.

If GDP growth was negative while the rest of the world was flourishing, and the unemployment rate was double digits, but I was claiming that "the economy was booming", I would be doing what you are doing. If those indicators were giving us those readings, I would in fact agree that the economy was in bad shape.
There are definitely lots of red flags even with this huge GDP report. However without mentioning a certain topic there is a terrible communication problem going on here as there are many positives out there as well. Communicating effectively is part of the job as well.
 
Not sure what you are getting at with the plenty of land statement. You can have as much land as you want, but 1) you need someone to build the houses, 2) you need someone to buy the houses. I live in a small Town in Iowa (less than 10K people). The city started a development to build "affordable housing" making the lots 10,000 to buy, but the house couldn't be over 1400 sq ft above ground and could not have a 3rd stall for 5 years after built. It still cost 285,000 to build before the pandemic and the same house was 40K more after the pandemic. You can build all the houses you want, but if they can't buy them why build?
Why does Iowa care how many urinals one puts in a house?
 
Not sure what you are getting at with the plenty of land statement. You can have as much land as you want, but 1) you need someone to build the houses, 2) you need someone to buy the houses. I live in a small Town in Iowa (less than 10K people). The city started a development to build "affordable housing" making the lots 10,000 to buy, but the house couldn't be over 1400 sq ft above ground and could not have a 3rd stall Garage for 5 years after built. It still cost 285,000 to build before the pandemic and the same house was 40K more after the pandemic. You can build all the houses you want, but if they can't buy them why build?
Why does Iowa care how many urinals one puts in a house?
Fixed it for you :lmao:
 
Not sure what you are getting at with the plenty of land statement. You can have as much land as you want, but 1) you need someone to build the houses, 2) you need someone to buy the houses. I live in a small Town in Iowa (less than 10K people). The city started a development to build "affordable housing" making the lots 10,000 to buy, but the house couldn't be over 1400 sq ft above ground and could not have a 3rd stall for 5 years after built. It still cost 285,000 to build before the pandemic and the same house was 40K more after the pandemic. You can build all the houses you want, but if they can't buy them why build?
Why does Iowa care how many urinals one puts in a house?
I think the opposite. Every house built going forward should be required to have at least 3 stalls. Comes in handy when you have friends over to watch football
 
Not sure what you are getting at with the plenty of land statement. You can have as much land as you want, but 1) you need someone to build the houses, 2) you need someone to buy the houses. I live in a small Town in Iowa (less than 10K people). The city started a development to build "affordable housing" making the lots 10,000 to buy, but the house couldn't be over 1400 sq ft above ground and could not have a 3rd stall for 5 years after built. It still cost 285,000 to build before the pandemic and the same house was 40K more after the pandemic. You can build all the houses you want, but if they can't buy them why build?
Why does Iowa care how many urinals one puts in a house?
I think the opposite. Every house built going forward should be required to have at least 3 stalls. Comes in handy when you have friends over to watch football
All toilets should be those Toto ones with the built in seat warmers and bidets.

That‘s the future we should all strive for.
 
28 million people are having student loan payments resume this month. Inflation isn't going away - there still isn't enough supply of goods and services. We don't have enough housing, healthcare, workers. I think a soft landing is looking less likely.
 
28 million people are having student loan payments resume this month. Inflation isn't going away - there still isn't enough supply of goods and services. We don't have enough housing, healthcare, workers. I think a soft landing is looking less likely.
28 million people about to have a lot less income to put into the economy.
 
28 million people are having student loan payments resume this month. Inflation isn't going away - there still isn't enough supply of goods and services. We don't have enough housing, healthcare, workers. I think a soft landing is looking less likely.
28 million people about to have a lot less income to put into the economy.
One would think these responsible 28 million people would realize that loans were going to restart at some point and used the years of zero payments to save for this eventually.
 
28 million people are having student loan payments resume this month. Inflation isn't going away - there still isn't enough supply of goods and services. We don't have enough housing, healthcare, workers. I think a soft landing is looking less likely.
28 million people about to have a lot less income to put into the economy.
One would think these responsible 28 million people would realize that loans were going to restart at some point and used the years of zero payments to save for this eventually.
Hahahahahahaha, deep breath, hahahahahahahaha, crying, hahahaha

Good one Sand, good one.
 
28 million people are having student loan payments resume this month. Inflation isn't going away - there still isn't enough supply of goods and services. We don't have enough housing, healthcare, workers. I think a soft landing is looking less likely.
28 million people about to have a lot less income to put into the economy.
One would think these responsible 28 million people would realize that loans were going to restart at some point and used the years of zero payments to save for this eventually.

Well one would also think that with 15 years of economic stimulus and exploding asset prices everyone not merely earning enough to cover the bills every month would be set, but here we are.
 
28 million people are having student loan payments resume this month. Inflation isn't going away - there still isn't enough supply of goods and services. We don't have enough housing, healthcare, workers. I think a soft landing is looking less likely.
28 million people about to have a lot less income to put into the economy.
One would think these responsible 28 million people would realize that loans were going to restart at some point and used the years of zero payments to save for this eventually.
Maybe some did. But those types prolly won’t dip into savings too much to buy stuff, will just spend less. We’ll see what kind of impact this has on things.
 
Personal wealth, especially the measurement of income, has traditionally been measured by the median for the exact reason IK states. It's a long-time thing to say "median income" and use that as the measure of where America is really at.

That's a dilettante talking and not a wonderfully-prepared economics student, but you all get the picture if you already hadn't.
FYI...The median income person likes classic rock,
No, being a homeowner is good. There's nothing wrong with renting when you're young, but you're putting yourself way behind the 8-ball financially by not buying an affordable home and locking in your housing expenses for the next 30 years. The "affordable home" part is obviously a huge sticking point with mortgage rates over 8% and housing prices in most cities being what they are.
Maybe some places have better inventory than others ... but you have to be pretty lucky over those 30 years not to have a financially-devastating repair spring up -- if not several.

Also, I'm betting home insurance is close to free up there -- and has remained stable -- compared to down here in Hurricane Alley (and no, the answer is not for all but the wealthy to drop life and move away).
Are you in Florida? Yeah, I can see the issue. I haven't followed the insurance thing incredibly closely, but I know it's a big problem.

But in fairness, that's a problem that is mostly localized to Florida for fairly obvious reasons of geography. What blows my mind is how much empty space we have in the US and how expensive housing is in our major and not-so-major cities. Again, no big deal for me personally -- our house is paid off so rising housing prices are sort of a wash for us since we would be both selling and buying if we were to move. (Not really a wash, but you get the point).

If you're a young person with a career that allows you to live anywhere, like a roofer or a nurse or something, you can pick a community with affordable housing and just live there. Young professionals tend to be stuck in cities where they can't afford a house and frankly probably can't really afford rent. I know we can always just say "Well, don't live in NYC/SF/LA/CHI/wherever" but why is it so hard for those places to build housing? (Rhetorical question -- I know the answer is zoning and NIMBYism, but these are local decisions that can be fixed locally).
Insurance in Kansas is rising also for no apparent reason. My boss had his homeowners insurance go up 40% this year and his car another 30% with zero claims. In Kansas.

And come on, you think it's easy for a young person to just pick up and go somewhere to get affordable housing? What world do you live in? Kids coming out of college right now, even if their parents pay for college, are having a hard time to find a decent apartment in a place like Kansas City. And the kids that owe on college loans - they are extra screwed. The only places they can live right now are their parents' houses. They don't have money for security deposits much less a down payment or anything else.

Home ownership for our nations young people is a MASSIVE problem.

Part of the problem is the only "livable" rentals have granite, hard surface flooring, SS appliances, latte bar, etc. The average apartment is 5x nicer than my first home and 20x nicer than my parents first home. Problem is that if it doesn't appear like HGTV with someone to carry out your trash and wipe your arse, it sits vacant.

This is going to sound like a get off my lawn post, but when I took my first job in engineering I drove a used car subject to break down, listened to the games on radio rather than watch on cable, checked my fantasy scores on the office internet on Monday, change my own oil, replaced my own brakes. We drank $2 pitchers of swill instead of $8-$10 craft beers. While the current young person has it rough on many fronts, they do have perks like a mobile computer in hand 10000x better than my work computer back in the day. Anyone know an educated young person that doesn't have multiple streaming subscriptions?

I'm not so sure that it's more expensive housing as it's all kinds of quality competing products chasing their dollars. Bottom line, young people have nicer crap than we did and nicer crap isn't free.
 
Why does Iowa care how many urinals one puts in a house?

Because they want to know the amount of toilet paper you use so that they can put the right tariff on Canadian pulp.

(That's a William F. Buckley, Jr. reference from when he was telling people why to vote for Nixon in '68).
 
With all the hardships our young people face, I'm surprised they haven't turned to terrorism.

Ahem. No, I don't mean that as anything other than sarcasm and to promote a little bit of introspection about how hard our young people have it.
 
to promote a little bit of introspection about how hard our young people have it.
Ehhhh, yeah, not buying it. While things are far from perfect this generation has it better than any generation before it (as is the case with most generation).*


(unless of course you’re not referring to American youths and are speaking about all youths of this generation. In that case I would be open to hearing the argument).
 
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