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US Men's National Team (16 Viewers)

AAABatteries said:
MOTM - has to be Pepi 

Man of the first 3 matches - Miles for me.  I’m totally biased as my avatar will attest but dude went from fringe part of the 23 to maybe the 2nd or 3rd name on the team sheet.  Meteoric rise for the kid.

ETA - that may be too generous but he’s pretty much an auto-start and who knows what happens with Snacks 
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Adams easily man of the first 3 matches for me.  Should be wearing the captain's armband.

 
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TripItUp said:
GGG earns another 3 games.  Results are results...regardless if I like him.
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Ironically he did not have a great game tonight to really make us feel any better about the future.

He had a horrible starting lineup and formation and then hit it out of the park with his halftime adjustments. 

That first half was brutal to watch and we were lucky Honduras did not take more advantage.  This is the one time trying to be concacaffy and shorten the game hurt them.  Instead of faking 5 injuries after they scored, they should have been ramming the ball down our throat.

Going in just down 1 at halftime allowed the players to still have hope when the changes were made.

 
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NewlyRetired said:
Ironically he did not have a great game tonight to really make us feel any better about the future.

He had a horrible starting lineup and formation and then hit it out of the park with his halftime adjustments. 
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Agreed, but he got the result.   I doubt Earnie does anything.

 
I hope that GGG is getting mentoring or somehow learning from his mistakes...he really needs to grow as a coach on several levels.  Not sure if it is possible, but that's what needs to happen.  

 
TripItUp said:
Adams easily man of the first 3 matches for me.  Should be wearing the captain's armband.
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agree about the first two games. but he was awful last night in the first half, albeit better in the second. Miles didn't put a wrong foot in any of the games. Do agree Adams or CP should be captain.

 
so... was the second half the same formation the US has been using?

If so- what happened that caused them to make it play so different? There was more width, they had numbers higher, there was good shape and space between players, they reacted better to counters...even their collective touch got better- crosses were made that actually cleared the first defender.

 
El Floppo said:
so... was the second half the same formation the US has been using?

If so- what happened that caused them to make it play so different? There was more width, they had numbers higher, there was good shape and space between players, they reacted better to counters...even their collective touch got better- crosses were made that actually cleared the first defender.
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Aaronson has the ability to run, dribble, and pass.  Probably gave the other players confidence when the slowhole was sent to the bench.

 
Ref last night should have given several yellow cards. Given our potential YC accumulation problem, that was probably a break for US when the next window starts.

 
gianmarco said:
Not a lot of talk in here at all last night about McKenzie.

Is that good or bad?
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both. Seems like he has some maturing to do. Perhaps this was the kick up the ### he needed to take his career more seriously. Hopefully he turns up in October more committed and ready to help the squad. 

 
Sinn Fein said:
both. Seems like he has some maturing to do. Perhaps this was the kick up the ### he needed to take his career more seriously. Hopefully he turns up in October more committed and ready to help the squad. 
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is there backstory to that? I don't remember maturity and commitment being discussed issues for him...just remember him losing his spot at his club recently.

i thought he was up and down on the night.

 
A few things stood out to me from last night. 
 

“funniest” moment - Pulisic collapsing like he had died right before he came out. I hope his injury is minor but watching him throw himself to the ground to ensure a stoppage/substitute was kind of funny. 
 

Robinson really came in and provided a spark. He did not really do much in that regard other than have some energy and looked like he gave a #### about the team and the result. We need more of that vibe. 
 

I thought Pepi had that energy the whole night. We should not have to rely on an 18yo to do that. We need some more veteran leadership. 
 

I did not see all of the 2nd half, but I thought shortly after Pulisic went off, more players took responsibility in the attacking end. It could be the subs, but I wonder if part of it was too much standing around waiting for Pulisic to do something. It felt like a lot of individualism in the first half, and less integrated team play. 
 

I am still not a Berhalter fan, but I think he deserves credit for making the tough call with Snacks. The team will be better in the long run for those kind of decisions. And, with his job on the line, he did not hide. He made changes to the lineup and when it did not work he made the moves at halftime. A lesser coach would have given up. 
 

Not a great window, but not a bad window either. And perhaps a galvanizing moment in coming out of Honduras with a big win. 

 
Sinn Fein said:
A few things stood out to me from last night. 
 

“funniest” moment - Pulisic collapsing like he had died right before he came out. I hope his injury is minor but watching him throw himself to the ground to ensure a stoppage/substitute was kind of funny. 
 

Robinson really came in and provided a spark. He did not really do much in that regard other than have some energy and looked like he gave a #### about the team and the result. We need more of that vibe. 
 

I thought Pepi had that energy the whole night. We should not have to rely on an 18yo to do that. We need some more veteran leadership. 
 

I did not see all of the 2nd half, but I thought shortly after Pulisic went off, more players took responsibility in the attacking end. It could be the subs, but I wonder if part of it was too much standing around waiting for Pulisic to do something. It felt like a lot of individualism in the first half, and less integrated team play. 
 

I am still not a Berhalter fan, but I think he deserves credit for making the tough call with Snacks. The team will be better in the long run for those kind of decisions. And, with his job on the line, he did not hide. He made changes to the lineup and when it did not work he made the moves at halftime. A lesser coach would have given up. 
 

Not a great window, but not a bad window either. And perhaps a galvanizing moment in coming out of Honduras with a big win. 
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maybe it is a Pulisic issue- like with Messi for Argentina- that causes a loss of shape and spacing in attack. I hope not.

 
Ned said:
:lmao:  me too

McKenzie was excellent.  Didn't notice a single mistake by him.
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saw some bad spacing, getting beat to first balls and poor touches and passes mixed in with mostly otherwise consistent play. he felt up and down relative to Miles.

 
So what's our CB pecking order based on recent play/current form/past experience? 

My crack at it:

Miles/McKenzie/Brooks/Richards/Zimm

And I think Richards could be at #2 or #3 but just hasn't been with the squad.

 
NewlyRetired said:
* NO ONE FROM MLS SHOULD EVER PULL ON A USMNT SHIRT FOR THE REST OF FOREVER
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Say what?

Here are the guys that finished the game:

Turner: MLS

Yedlin:

Miles Robinson: MLS

Antonee Robinson:

Lieget: MLS

Adams:

Acosta: MLS

Roldan: MLS

Pepi: MLS

Aaronson: 

I'm counting 6 of the guys who finished the game last night as MLS players. And to be honest, guys who helped flip that game on its head late.

Look, we all know who the Golden Children are for this team, but for the CONCACAF style of play, MLS players certainly fit that style. Frantic, physical, a little gritty....ugly at times.  

Hell, that's what the MLS is on a daily basis!  And the MLS guys are willing to do that dirty work. 

 
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ChiefD said:
Whew, thank god. 
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I was parroting another poster who made that comment this summer and then doubled down on it when asked about it.   You know I don't care who plays where, I only care about how they play on the field.

The fact that almost all of our best players were not involved in our best half of soccer this window is not lost on me. 

 
El Floppo said:
so... was the second half the same formation the US has been using?

If so- what happened that caused them to make it play so different? There was more width, they had numbers higher, there was good shape and space between players, they reacted better to counters...even their collective touch got better- crosses were made that actually cleared the first defender.
Click to expand...
anybody?

I was too far gone in despair to be paying attention to the positional/tactical shifts.

Is this young guys slowly getting it? A coach being more explicit at half time? desperation?

 
El Floppo said:
yeah. ongoing pet peeve of andys- euro-snobs not rating MLS players.
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NewlyRetired said:
I was parroting another poster who made that comment this summer and then doubled down on it when asked about it.   You know I don't care who plays where, I only care about how they play on the field.

The fact that almost all of our best players were not involved in our best half of soccer this window is not lost on me. 
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Gotcha - thanks for the clarification.

Sometimes this thread is hard to follow with all the nuances.  :lol:

 
Brooks going forward is going to be really interesting to see how it works out.  We had some indications this window that he may have had some disagreements with GGG and then he put out a poor performance last night before getting yanked.

Does GGG continue to call him up?  It seems almost crazy to think he won't be called given his status at the club level and the fact that he is one of the few guys with some experience on the team, but Miles ascension to what looks like the #1 CB and the fact that he can play on that left side does give GGG some choices.

A veteran is needed on this team but it can also work against the coach if said veteran does not agree with how the coach is performing (I am not saying Brooks is wrong either on that count). 

 
6 MLS players (Turner, Miles, Lletget, Acosta, Roldan, Pepi); 4 ex-MLS players (Yedlin, McKenzie, Adams, Aaronson) and a guy in the English Championship (Antonee) finished the game last night.

 
NewlyRetired said:
Brooks going forward is going to be really interesting to see how it works out.  We had some indications this window that he may have had some disagreements with GGG and then he put out a poor performance last night before getting yanked.

Does GGG continue to call him up?  It seems almost crazy to think he won't be called given his status at the club level and the fact that he is one of the few guys with some experience on the team, but Miles ascension to what looks like the #1 CB and the fact that he can play on that left side does give GGG some choices.

A veteran is needed on this team but it can also work against the coach if said veteran does not agree with how the coach is performing (I am not saying Brooks is wrong either on that count). 
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If it's me I leave him off. 

That back line last night after he went off was outstanding. 

 
El Floppo said:
anybody?

I was too far gone in despair to be paying attention to the positional/tactical shifts.

Is this young guys slowly getting it? A coach being more explicit at half time? desperation?
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Sorry, I was posting something else and was going to answer this next.

At halftime, GGG said they returned to a 4-3-3.

The biggest changes to me were not formation, they were personnel.  Jedi was a big upgrade over Bello who played a bit scared and diminished as the half went on.  Getting Adams back in the middle and getting a real winger like Aaronson on for Sargent changed the energy level of the team.

I can't speak for why it worked in the second half but did not the other two games.  But as I have mentioned, lots of the best players were missing, which had an opposite effect on the outcome.   That was very likely a fluke but it was very noticeable. 

 
Oh, and aside from his idiotic foul, Adams is such an important piece out there.  Without him, we may be looking at less than 2 points, IMO. 

 
I think Berhalter holds the hammer now on all the Euro guys.  I mean they just got showed up by a bunch of guys earning like 10% of what they do.

And it's a little scary how much better the ball moved once Pulisic came off.  They were already looking better with the formation change, but it was still noticeable.

 
How do we get Pulisic/Gio/Aaronson/Pepi all in at the same time when it matters (yes, I know we'll be having tons of rotations given multiple matches, but still)?  Is that possible?

 
gianmarco said:
Oh, and aside from his idiotic foul, Adams is such an important piece out there.  Without him, we may be looking at less than 2 points, IMO. 
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I agree but I also thought he looked terrible at RWB last night.  So many bad touches.  He instantly changed when he went back to the middle, where he belong.  

I know we have a bunch of injuries to deal with but we have way to many semi competent RB's to ever need to put Adams there ever again.

 
gianmarco said:
How do we get Pulisic/Gio/Aaronson/Pepi all in at the same time when it matters (yes, I know we'll be having tons of rotations given multiple matches, but still)?  Is that possible?
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The only way is to put some one at the 8, assuming the same 4-3-3.  Pulisic can't play there given the defensive responsibilities and his frail body, Aaronson struggled in that role when he tried it this window.  I think Gio though may be able to pull it off.

We don't quite know what is going to happen with Weston, whether this spins into his club play or not.  If he loses time at Juve there is a chance he does not get called up next window, which makes room for another number 8 like Gio.

 
NewlyRetired said:
The only way is to put some one at the 8, assuming the same 4-3-3.  Pulisic can't play there given the defensive responsibilities and his frail body, Aaronson struggled in that role when he tried it this window.  I think Gio though may be able to pull it off.

We don't quite know what is going to happen with Weston, whether this spins into his club play or not.  If he loses time at Juve there is a chance he does not get called up next window, which makes room for another number 8 like Gio.
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That's what I was thinking.  Do we start to think of the lineup without Weston?

So, if it's Pulisic/Pepi/Aaronson up front and then putting Gio, who else is there with him in the middle along with Adams?

Also, I'm wondering if we start to consider moving Dest up there.  Allows him to get much more involved in offense without being a defensive liability while at the same time having defensive experience.  Antonee at LB and either Cannon or Yedlin at RB are more than solid.

 
To me, a-rob was just a massive difference maker in the 2nd half. Bottom line.....he made tackles (and actually retrieved the ball when he did) that a guy with his pedigree should make.  He bossed that side of the field like I'd expect an EPL caliber left back to do. 

 
El Floppo said:
anybody?

I was too far gone in despair to be paying attention to the positional/tactical shifts.

Is this young guys slowly getting it? A coach being more explicit at half time? desperation?
Click to expand...
It was a 4--3-3.  Adams stayed at RB until Yedlin came on in the 73rd and then moved into the center.  Roldan was also more advanced than LLetget once he came on.  

From an analytical perspective I do think you have to look at it pre Pepi goal where I thought it was more of less fairly even for the second half.  Once he scored, they took off a CB for a forward and tour front  6 were still fresh enough against some very tired Hondurian legs to turn them over and get goals 3 and 4.  

I also think Honduras ran themselves into the ground the 60 minutes, but credit to the team for being able to capitalize.  It was the first time in a long while where I felt we really used the teams athleticism well.  

 
NewlyRetired said:
Sorry, I was posting something else and was going to answer this next.

At halftime, GGG said they returned to a 4-3-3.

The biggest changes to me were not formation, they were personnel.  Jedi was a big upgrade over Bello who played a bit scared and diminished as the half went on.  Getting Adams back in the middle and getting a real winger like Aaronson on for Sargent changed the energy level of the team.

I can't speak for why it worked in the second half but did not the other two games.  But as I have mentioned, lots of the best players were missing, which had an opposite effect on the outcome.   That was very likely a fluke but it was very noticeable. 
Click to expand...


yeah- it's the bolded I can't figure out. The guys you mentioned all played in the identical positions previously without success. It could be that Honduras isn't that good. but El Sal looked worse- but the US couldn't figure out anything that game, even though they were on the front foot to begin the game. Like I said... they finally had width, they finally had some shape going forward, they finally were dealing with the counter. 

I feel like some of it was an attitude to press higher up and maintain numbers further up the field (and not accordianed/stretched out over the field). They need to not give anybody respect

NewlyRetired said:
I agree but I also thought he looked terrible at RWB last night.  So many bad touches.  He instantly changed when he went back to the middle, where he belong.  

I know we have a bunch of injuries to deal with but we have way to many semi competent RB's to ever need to put Adams there ever again.
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he was awful at RB. terrible touches, but also consistently beaten off the dribble without issue. it was terrible.

gianmarco said:
That's what I was thinking.  Do we start to think of the lineup without Weston?

So, if it's Pulisic/Pepi/Aaronson up front and then putting Gio, who else is there with him in the middle along with Adams?

Also, I'm wondering if we start to consider moving Dest up there.  Allows him to get much more involved in offense without being a defensive liability while at the same time having defensive experience.  Antonee at LB and either Cannon or Yedlin at RB are more than solid.
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I was happy to ditch Sarge for Prefok before seeing Pepi. Now I'm happy to ditch both of them for Pepi ("PEPI IS THE NAME. AND PEPPY IS THE ATTITUDE"... gag).

I still maintain that Adams, Swag and Musah make the best option for the MF, with CP and Reyna joining Pepi, or out wide. Aaronson can be a consistent starter, replacing any of those 5 outside of Adams. I'd love for him to be central- but wonder if he's best right now out wide.

I like the idea of getting Dest higher up the field to cash in on his CP/Gio level attacking ability. But in place of who?

So- that's 7 guys... 8 including Aaronson.

Miles, Jedi and one more central defender (plus Dest).

Seems like a pretty solid group.

 
Sammy3469 said:
It was a 4--3-3.  Adams stayed at RB until Yedlin came on in the 73rd and then moved into the center.  Roldan was also more advanced than LLetget once he came on.  

From an analytical perspective I do think you have to look at it pre Pepi goal where I thought it was more of less fairly even for the second half.  Once he scored, they took off a CB for a forward and tour front  6 were still fresh enough against some very tired Hondurian legs to turn them over and get goals 3 and 4.  

I also think Honduras ran themselves into the ground the 60 minutes, but credit to the team for being able to capitalize.  It was the first time in a long while where I felt we really used the teams athleticism well.  
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thanks :thumbup:

I do remember Yedlin coming in and motioning instructions to Adams... but somehow didn't realize Adams stayed at RB until the 73rd. he wasn't as awful in the second half there, at least from my memory.

I'm still trying to unearth what the players or GGG did collectively that changed what had been a stagnant, mal-formed 4-3-3 into a more productive one. I'm hoping it's more pro-active than simply the Hondurans messing up their own formation- but that's a good bit of info I wasn't aware of either (watching without sound).

 
El Floppo said:
yeah- it's the bolded I can't figure out. The guys you mentioned all played in the identical positions previously without success. It could be that Honduras isn't that good. but El Sal looked worse- but the US couldn't figure out anything that game, even though they were on the front foot to begin the game. Like I said... they finally had width, they finally had some shape going forward, they finally were dealing with the counter. 

I feel like some of it was an attitude to press higher up and maintain numbers further up the field (and not accordianed/stretched out over the field). They need to not give anybody respect

he was awful at RB. terrible touches, but also consistently beaten off the dribble without issue. it was terrible.

I was happy to ditch Sarge for Prefok before seeing Pepi. Now I'm happy to ditch both of them for Pepi ("PEPI IS THE NAME. AND PEPPY IS THE ATTITUDE"... gag).

I still maintain that Adams, Swag and Musah make the best option for the MF, with CP and Reyna joining Pepi, or out wide. Aaronson can be a consistent starter, replacing any of those 5 outside of Adams. I'd love for him to be central- but wonder if he's best right now out wide.

I like the idea of getting Dest higher up the field to cash in on his CP/Gio level attacking ability. But in place of who?

So- that's 7 guys... 8 including Aaronson.

Miles, Jedi and one more central defender (plus Dest).

Seems like a pretty solid group.
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that group should be able to go toe-to-toe with just about anybody.

but they desperately need to figure out the formation, shape and tactics... or else it's back to generating nothing against awful teams like El Salvador.

 
El Floppo said:
so... was the second half the same formation the US has been using?

If so- what happened that caused them to make it play so different? There was more width, they had numbers higher, there was good shape and space between players, they reacted better to counters...even their collective touch got better- crosses were made that actually cleared the first defender.
Click to expand...
Gregg mentioned that Honduras made changes (going to a back three) that helped the US attack and made the press easier.  Gregg dropped the full backs deep and let the MF have the space. 

 
El Floppo said:
thanks :thumbup:

I do remember Yedlin coming in and motioning instructions to Adams... but somehow didn't realize Adams stayed at RB until the 73rd. he wasn't as awful in the second half there, at least from my memory.

I'm still trying to unearth what the players or GGG did collectively that changed what had been a stagnant, mal-formed 4-3-3 into a more productive one. I'm hoping it's more pro-active than simply the Hondurans messing up their own formation- but that's a good bit of info I wasn't aware of either (watching without sound).
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I'll give you a 4 letter answer...Pepi.  And yes sometimes it is that simple.  It's much harder to clog lanes with his movement and anticipation.  

 
NewlyRetired said:
I agree but I also thought he looked terrible at RWB last night.  So many bad touches.  He instantly changed when he went back to the middle, where he belong.  
Click to expand...
Adams was trying to play wingback while also constantly trying to sort out Sands’ and Acosta’s positioning. Not a surprise that his concentration seemed off when the ball found him. 

 
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