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US Men's National Team (18 Viewers)

That was a largely uninspired effort.  Atleast they settled into the match without conceding.  Some nice plays here and there, and good god Zardoz's first touch.

 
Very good tweet and describes how behind our thought process is-

@cfcskyler

darlington nagbe is 25 and they're talking about his development in the future... this country has to change

 
Random comments:

* I need to look at the stats closer but Yedlin has to find a way to be more accurate with passing.  The passing %es for a RB should be very high when he is not crossing the ball.  Too many simple give aways for me

* I thought Birnbaum looked decent.  If Cam can't go, I am ok with him and Brooks

* Zardes really should not be on this team, much less starting.  I know JK loves him and what he has accomplished with such limited talent, but he continues to have the touch of a brick layer.  Dempsey made a great scoop pass to him that he should have done so much more with.

* I loved Mikey back at DM in front of the back 4.  He looked composed for the most part and simply not having him run around like a chicken with his head cut off should make his overall game better.  JK's continual insistence that he is a number 10 is one of his worst calls.  I hope he is willing to give Mike a full run there sometime in the next 4 games.

* Nagbe looks like he is in a coma when he plays, but he is smooth on his touch.  I don't think he misplayed a pass in the second half.

* Wood looks nervous to me.  It might just be his style but he seems too amped up for his own good

* Favorite play of the night was Pulisic getting muscled off the ball by a guy twice his size and immediately turning into a pit bull, winning it back, shielding off two opponents and then completing a pass to a team mate.

* This continues a remarkable run under JK where we lull the opponent to sleep in friendlies and then win late after they are really looking to get in the locker room.

 
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I think Nagbe is a must start.  He changed the game by allowing the Nats to keep possession in the second half.  Its true that he doesn't look to constantly impose himself on the game, but he still managed to have a hand in pretty much every chance created in the second half.  

 
NewlyRetired said:
Random comments:

* I need to look at the stats closer but Yedlin has to find a way to be more accurate with passing.  The passing %es for a RB should be very high when he is not crossing the ball.  Too many simple give aways for me

* I thought Birnbaum looked decent.  If Cam can't go, I am ok with him and Brooks

* Zardes really should not be on this team, much less starting.  I know JK loves him and what he has accomplished with such limited talent, but he continues to have the touch of a brick layer.  Dempsey made a great scoop pass to him that he should have done so much more with.

* I loved Mikey back at DM in front of the back 4.  He looked composed for the most part and simply not having him run around like a chicken with his head cut off should make his overall game better.  JK's continual insistence that he is a number 10 is one of his worst calls.  I hope he is willing to give Mike a full run there sometime in the next 4 games.

* Nagbe looks like he is in a coma when he plays, but he is smooth on his touch.  I don't think he misplayed a pass in the second half.

* Wood looks nervous to me.  It might just be his style but he seems too amped up for his own good

* Favorite play of the night was Pulisic getting muscled off the ball by a guy twice his size and immediately turning into a pit bull, winning it back, shielding off two opponents and then completing a pass to a team mate.

* This continues a remarkable run under JK where we lull the opponent to sleep in friendlies and then win late after they are really looking to get in the locker room.
Click to expand...
Great eye - I saw most of the same things.  

  • Birnbaum was pretty pedestrian to me.  Ecuador wasn't playing very hard (they almost didn't seem to care) and he still looked like he was on the verge of blowing it.
  • For as much as I hated seeing Yedlin pushing forward every-single-time in the first half, his move just outside the 18 was the move that opened things up for that late goal.  I was happy to see the adjustment they made in the second half keeping him back more often.  Who knows, maybe with more time he'll clean up his passing like he did his defense, but for now... ughhhh.  Stay at home, please.
  • Fabian at LB just seems like such a waste, but where else do you put him?
  • The Pulisic-Wood-Nagbe-Bradley setup was friggin' sweet.
  • That play by Pulisic was funny.  I was telling my wife as he got muscled off the ball that his one knock to me is his small size; he's going to get banged around.  Then he pulled that off and made me eat my words. :lol:   Scrappy little bugger...
  • I 150% agree with the Bradley thoughts.  He looked great on top of the back line.  
  • Zardes is a second half sub at best. :sadbanana:  
 
I hate seeing Fab at LB.  I so wish someone else would step up.  Given that Fab can play both ends of the field, the LB doesn't have to provide much at all going forward.  Just be able to play D and have a little speed.  If that doesn't work then maybe we have to seriously consider a 3CB backline with Yedlin and Fab playing more like WB's.

I'd love a lineup with similar to last nights starting 11 but Fab at LW, someone else at LB, Bradley CDM, and then either Bedoya or Nagbe at CM.  Maybe Bedoya at RW and Nagbe for Beckerman at CM.

So like this...

                                 Guzan/Howard

Yedlin Cam (or Birnbaum/Omar/Besler) Brooks LB (Ream/Acosta/Orozco/anybody!)

              Bradley                           Germany Jones

                                 Nagbe

Bedoya                                                       Fab

                                Dempsey

Then have Zardoz, Wood, Beckerman, Zusi, and some D on the bench.  Seem we would need another CM sub, but I'm out of ideas there.

 
Poke_4_Life said:
I hate seeing Fab at LB.  I so wish someone else would step up.  Given that Fab can play both ends of the field, the LB doesn't have to provide much at all going forward.  Just be able to play D and have a little speed.  If that doesn't work then maybe we have to seriously consider a 3CB backline with Yedlin and Fab playing more like WB's.
Click to expand...
It's all well and good to say Fab shouldn't be a LB, but if I had to guess JK sees Pulisic taking the more attacking left side position full-time by the time 2018.  In that scenario, the only real place to put Fab is at LB.

Like other's have said the Bradley, Nagbe, Pulisic, Fab interplay was really encouraging and something we haven't seen in a long time.

 
First half EC's front four did a great job finding the seams and space either diagonally between US cbs and fbs or constantly between the back four and the mf. I think it was equal parts great work on their part and poor spacing and coverage on the US. Yedlin caught forward or too wide a lot. Beckerman nowhere near the pace of the game and oddly not providing the tactical shape that's typically his strength. 

Second half shape was obviously changed forheetter with Bradley pushed back and Nagbe in there. EC also clearly took the foot off the gas.  IMO,  Nagbe was amazing last night. On the ball a lot,  and then sooo quick of mind with it. He probably played a few too many easy balls quickly to where he was looking, but tbh, those quick easy passes were what set the US offense in motion. And then when he started to turn and take the second and third touches he really opened the offense up.

Also loved Pusilic. So tactically aware with his defensive coverage... simple thing,  making the little run to cover space,  but not yet a strength for US players. And yeah,  surprising bite defensively on the ball too. you could stay to see him and Nagbe look for each other as the game progressed. And they both were playing with an awareness of the 2nd and third pass on both sides of the ball. VERY nice and hope-inducing to see that combo progress. 

Zardoz. Yeah. That play was him all wrapped up in a shiny highlight reel bow. Great movement and run to find that seam,  and then KLONG.

All in all, pretty good.  Guzan want really tested,  And the US was able to imprint control offensively, albeit after EC stood down a bit. 

And ####. Wife set the record dvr for me because I was at the office late. Of course the recording ended before the goal. 

 
El Floppo said:
And ####. Wife set the record dvr for me because I was at the office late. Of course the recording ended before the goal. 
Click to expand...
Nagbe made that goal look so easy, but that's probably one of the better technical goals scored by an American in awhile.  Chests it down for a side volley.  More of that please. 

 
The Good:
Nagbe looks good. The goal wasn't spectacular but it wasn't a piece of cake either. Soft touch off the chest to maintain control and a quick touch with the right boot skipped off the pitch. Nice. More playing time please. After the goal I noticed the circle of celebration was Nagbe, Pulisic and Woods and thought "there's the future of the US men's team."

Pulisic's first touch is golden. So very...un-USA like for lack of better description. Someone else above also commented about him being a bull dog. Agree. He's still slight of frame but man he gets after it and looks smooth.

This is starting to sound like an old record but Yedlin has really grown up. Last year he was still using his speed to make up for poor technique but he's improved immensely. Several times he was one on one with a defender and either caused a turnover or forced the defender to retreat.

JJ still has it. One of the aging vets that still plays at a high level and contributes IMO.

Guzan didn't have to make may difficult stops but ended with a clean sheet and came off the line a few times at times when necessary.

The Bad:
John Brooks - I read one report that graded him a 7 for the match. What am I missing? He had some nice moments (coming from behind to challenge what would have been a one on one with Guzan) but too many times it looks like he was out of position. I'm more interested in steady play rather than good play/bad play.

Zardes - Had an opportunity after a nice chip by Dempsey but first touch was crapola.

Dempsey - I'm a huge Dempsey fan. Love his Texas swagger and blue collor effort but he's really starting to show his age. I think he still has enough in the tank to be a key player for Copa but Russia 2018? Not seeing it.

 
Buzzbait said:
The goal wasn't spectacular but it wasn't a piece of cake either. Soft touch off the chest to maintain control and a quick touch with the right boot skipped off the pitch.
Click to expand...
Now imagine that Wood's header went to Zardoz and not Nagbe.  Makes me puke in my mouth a little.  No way Zardes should be starting.

 
Nagbe's very laid back style tells me he is going to be one of those players who can play an elongated career.  I think some day we are going to see both him and Emerson in the midfield together and it would be interesting and rare to see two US players who are so confortable on the ball.

We are likely to need a strong ball winner behind them and hopefully someone like Acosta can emerge in that roll.

 
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Steve Tasker said:
Missed the game yesterday.  Any good recaps?  Hopefully it wasn't as dull as the Puerto Rico friendly....
Click to expand...
Honestly it was not much better.  Even the announcers kept saying it had the feel of a scrimmage.  Tiny crowd did not help much.

  Just read the comments posted here for a flavor.  Youtube has some extended highlights if interested.

 
The Gator said:
Lionel Pulisic
Click to expand...
best play of the game.  It should have started a few second earlier to see how he got muscled off the ball to begin with.

As you know I am not big on "where you play" defines "how good" you are as a player.

But one thing I have noticed is that certain teams in Europe really teach ball hawking when you lose it.  It is almost like they train you to be insulted you lost the ball.

I think one of the most under rated parts of tiki taka was the incredible ability to swarm and recover the ball instantly when lost.

 
From ESPN.  The bolded is the interesting part for me.  How and when does JK make this important determination.

====================================================================

FRISCO, Texas -- Seventeen-year-old Christian Pulisic could start for the United States when the Copa America Centenario kicks off next week, U.S. coach Jurgen Klinsmann said after Wednesday's 1-0 friendly win over Ecuador.

Pulisic, who burst onto the national team radar after breaking into German powerhouse Borussia Dortmund's first team earlier this year, played the final 27 minutes off the bench in his second appearance for the U.S., adding a spark that led to Darlington Nagbe's 90th minute game winner.

"Everybody's in contention," Klinsmann said when asked if the Pennsylvania native could play a bigger role during the high-profile tournament. "It's nice to see a youngster like Christian having no fear, having confidence.

"It's also a confidence given by his teammates. He can make mistakes but he also has that change of pace. He has the technique. He's not overthinking the situation."

After being a substitute in his first two international appearances, Pulisic, who made four Bundesliga starts for Dortmund during the second half of their season, admitted that he would welcome a larger role with the U.S.

"That's what I'm pushing for," Pulisic said. "We have 23 very strong players. Of course everyone wants to start. That's the goal, but I just want to be successful with the team. Whether that's starting or that's coming off the bench that's fine by me."

Pulisic was one of several young players who impressed in a substitute role in the second half, along with Nagbe and striker Bobby Wood.

It will make for stiff competition for places ahead of the Americans' June 3 tourney opener against Colombia.

"All 23 are ready to play from the beginning on, and they're fighting now for spots," Klinsmann said. "Yes, we have established players and they deserve a certain kind of [respect]. But we always tell the younger ones to come in and sooner or later push them out. It's their job."

 
NewlyRetired said:
best play of the game.  It should have started a few second earlier to see how he got muscled off the ball to begin with.

As you know I am not big on "where you play" defines "how good" you are as a player.

But one thing I have noticed is that certain teams in Europe really teach ball hawking when you lose it.  It is almost like they train you to be insulted you lost the ball.

I think one of the most under rated parts of tiki taka was the incredible ability to swarm and recover the ball instantly when lost.
Click to expand...
One of the first eye openers in this sport I ever had was watching those Spanish teams descend on the ball like a pack of wolves after turning it over. I wondered why everybody didn't do that. And then I learned how incredibly difficult it was to teach and co-ordinate.

 
The Z Machine said:
So who ate the absolute must starts for the USMNT right now? I can really only think of 4 or 5 if you count the Guzan/Howard toss up.
Click to expand...
No one will agree with my answer, but on the basis of last night and my own opinion about talent levels prior to last night...

Yedlin, Brooks, Fab, Bradley, Nagbe, Pulisic and maybe Bedoya are players I'd like to see clock as many minutes together as possible over the next ~2 years.

Striker, another mid or winger, a partner for Brooks and GK are the spots up for grabs in my perfect world.  And Wood may be on his way to claiming the first of those.  He seems to make an impact pretty frequently.  Also, am I crazy to think that someone other than Guzan or Howard might actually be our best keeper in the next year or two?

 
I love that Bedoya is getting loved. 

**bookmarked for next game when he brings his inconsistent bad side to the table and everybody's wondering why JK keeps calling him up.

 
roadkill1292 said:
One of the first eye openers in this sport I ever had was watching those Spanish teams descend on the ball like a pack of wolves after turning it over. I wondered why everybody didn't do that. And then I learned how incredibly difficult it was to teach and co-ordinate.
Click to expand...
totally.

what's always struck me is how Barca is able to move as a complete unit, anticipating 2,3 and on passes and runs ahead- on both sides of the ball. they're a swarm moving forward or defending... just incredible. every guy has to be on the exact same page and understand not just his own run/passes that many plays ahead, but also his immediate team-mates' runs/passes. totally different awareness than we have here... or most people have anywhere.

 
El Floppo said:
totally.

what's always struck me is how Barca is able to move as a complete unit, anticipating 2,3 and on passes and runs ahead- on both sides of the ball. they're a swarm moving forward or defending... just incredible. every guy has to be on the exact same page and understand not just his own run/passes that many plays ahead, but also his immediate team-mates' runs/passes. totally different awareness than we have here... or most people have anywhere.
Click to expand...
That's one of the best aspects of Atlético's system.  When they are in a 4-4-2, they move as two narrow banks four, forcing difficult passing through the center of the park.  This pushes teams into more crosses than they'd like as the diagonal balls simply aren't there or aren't effective because they are too short.  Once a player gets the ball near the sideline, the players on that half of the pitch descend and try to force a bad pass.  This coupled with a determination to double up on an opponent that has just dispossessed an Atleti player makes the system so difficult to break down.  Now the difference with Barça is that they are picking out the offensive passes steps ahead and one touching it to get there.  That tiki taka isn't as effective against the compact 4-4-2 of Atleti as there simply aren't enough good passes to open up space.  Barça has won games against Atleti recently through longer, more direct passes and moments of brilliance in tight spaces.  Suárez in particular being able to out-muscle the Atlético CBs is very dangeous, combined with Neymar's ability to get around/through Juanfran makes them the toughest opponent Atlético faces.

 
El Floppo said:
I love that Bedoya is getting loved. 

**bookmarked for next game when he brings his inconsistent bad side to the table and everybody's wondering why JK keeps calling him up.
Click to expand...
I may well be on both bandwagons.  But I am wondering if Bedoya is a relatively skilled, relatively unathletic player who might benefit from seeing an added level of skill around him.  Actually, that's what it looked like to me last night -- that his skillset fits with a better passing team than it usually does with players like Zard and Yedlin etc.

 
Bedoya is not a wing. As the Brazil game showed, he's not a holding mid either.  He's a CAM, but in the system we appear to be running now, he should be fine as one of the two CMs ahead of Bradley (hopefully).  My guess is that Jones is probably ahead of him there, but that Jones can't really play a full tourney anymore, so they should rotate. 

 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
Bedoya is not a wing. As the Brazil game showed, he's not a holding mid either.  He's a CAM, but in the system we appear to be running now, he should be fine as one of the two CMs ahead of Bradley (hopefully).  My guess is that Jones is probably ahead of him there, but that Jones can't really play a full tourney anymore, so they should rotate. 
Click to expand...
------------------Wood

---------Nagbe---------Bedoya

Pulisic-----------------------------Zusi??

------------------Bradley

Like that?

 
wdcrob said:
------------------Wood

---------Nagbe---------Bedoya

Pulisic-----------------------------Zusi??

------------------Bradley

Like that?
Click to expand...


4-3-3

      Pulisic/Wood         Deuce/Wood          Zusi/Zardes

                         Nagbe                 Jones/Bedoya

                                        Bradley

Fab                  Brooks              Cameron           Yedlin

                                      Guzan

 
All of a sudden I really like how this team fits together.  Especially if Dempsey and Jones and Zardes can serve as subs instead of 90 minute players.  I'd still like to upgrade Z/Z but overall that's potentially as cohesive a unit as we've put on the field in a long time.

 
Stiker and RW are still big question marks.  I think Deuce plays best with a strike partner, but the team plays best in a 4-3-3.  Wood isn't as good in the 18 as Deuce (or Jozy for that matter), but is far more useful even when he doesn't score goals.  Pulisic might be worth a look on the right, but I'm reluctant to ask too much of him when he's comfortable on the left.  For 2018, I suspect we might see Kekuta Manneh at LW and Pulisic at RW. 

Yedlin has improved, but he's still a weak spot as well.  I think the CB pairing has a lot of potential (I loved how Brooks played as a cover CB last night.  Big time range). 

Of course, we're projecting no dip in form for Nagbe when playing 90 in games that matter.  He hasn't proven that yet.  I do think that he's the most calm player on the ball the US has had.  The comp I immediately think of, even down to the criticism of not trying to "dominate" games, is Claudio Reyna. 

 
Odds of winning based on best available odds for each team...

Code: 
Argentina    29.0%
Brazil       16.2%
Chile        10.6%
USA          10.1%
Colombia      8.5%
Uruguay       8.1%
Mexico        7.5%
Ecuador       2.5%
Costa Rica    1.6%
Peru          1.6%
Paraguay      1.4%
Venezuela     1.0%
Bolivia       0.6%
Jamaica       0.5%
Panama        0.5%
Haiti         0.2%
 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
4-3-3

      Pulisic/Wood         Deuce/Wood          Zusi/Zardes

                         Nagbe                 Jones/Bedoya

                                        Bradley

Fab                  Brooks              Cameron           Yedlin

                                      Guzan
Click to expand...
I like the look of this as well.

*We need a back up at LB because Fab is a bit fragile (I shudder thinking that Chandler is the backup)

*If Brooks or Cam get hurt I am ok with Besler and Birn as the replacements

*Chandler will be fine to back up Yedlin

*Like others said, I don't like the right wing here at all but the roster is what it is.

*I really hope JK is willing to admit the Bradley aty #10 experiment is over and leave him in front of the back 4.

===========================

Lets throw some forward names into the hat that if were healthy could have been on this roster

Jozy, Bacon and Rubin.  I think Rubin would be fine at the RW spot but the other two are better suited in the middle (even if Jozy and Bacon are so different).

I think Bacon would really enjoy the technical skills that Nagbe and Pulisic bring and might bring out a better Bacon if he has more players to combo with.

 
wdcrob said:
Odds of winning based on best available odds for each team...

Argentina    29.0%
Brazil     16.2%
Chile     10.6%
USA     10.1%
Colombia     8.5%
Uruguay     8.1%
Mexico     7.5%
Ecuador     2.5%
Costa Rica    1.6%
Peru     1.6%
Paraguay     1.4%
Venezuela     1.0%
Bolivia     0.6%
Jamaica     0.5%
Panama     0.5%
Haiti     0.2%
Click to expand...

There is some home cooking built into those numbers.  Shocking to see more money being spent on the US than either Colombia or Mexico.

 
wdcrob said:
You guys are underestimating HFA I think.  Playing at home is HUGE in these tournaments.
Click to expand...
In most countries this is true but as you know we are very unique.  Many teams beyond US and Mexico will have huge followings in the stadiums because of our melting pot.  

 
wdcrob said:
Odds of winning based on best available odds for each team...

Argentina    29.0%
Brazil     16.2%
Chile     10.6%
USA     10.1%
Colombia     8.5%
Uruguay     8.1%
Mexico     7.5%
Ecuador     2.5%
Costa Rica    1.6%
Peru     1.6%
Paraguay     1.4%
Venezuela     1.0%
Bolivia     0.6%
Jamaica     0.5%
Panama     0.5%
Haiti     0.2%
Click to expand...

switch mexico and the us, and it would like about right. mexico has home-field advantage through the whole thing, regardless of who they play.

 
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