Vaccine Passports (1 Viewer)

[quick-hands]

Your religious beliefs should be respected by the government (first amendment), but nobody else is under any obligation to respect them.  Vaccines are against your religion?  Fine with me.  But you're not welcome in my home or my personal business.

Same with the gay wedding cake thing.  Feel free to get gay married -- don't expect to force others to participate in your wedding.

I agree I was just asking.   Based on what the Bills did today.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I agree I was just asking.   Based on what the Bills did today.

I'm going to be interested to see how they enforce that.  I know NY has their own little proprietary system for tracking vaccination, but I'm not sure how that would work for out-of-state fans.  My personal guess is that this whole topic will become moot once people realize that it's a lot of work to put a workable system in place, and the benefits of doing so are pretty small.  

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Also, as far as religious exceptions go, the Bills have traditionally been very supportive of their religious fans.  They've caused me stand and up scream "Jesus Christ" more times than I can count.

 

[Terminalxylem]

I'm not going to get into the bad phrasing here, but on it's face that is .000001% of the people so far....and this is likely the largest that % is going to be.  What else do you need to see?  Have you done the research to understand how these vaccines (Pfizer and Moderna) are different than vaccines we commonly know?  Just curious how far you've gone looking into these things.

Incidence of immune thrombocytopenia in general population: 3.3 per 100,000/yr

Incidence of cerebral venous thrombosis: 2-5 per million/yr

Incidence of above disorders in J&J vaccine recipients: 6 in 6.8 million, one of whom died

US covid deaths: 570K of 32 million

Granted, J&J’s vaccine has only been approved a month and a half, but there’s no reason to believe there will be an uptick in clot-related deaths to exceed that of the background population. And we’re also ignoring the impact covid has on clotting risk.

ETA J&J uses old vaccine technology, but Snotbubbles ain’t trusting anything without 3-4, but preferably 10 years of safety data.

 

[the moops]

Also, as far as religious exceptions go, the Bills have traditionally been very supportive of their religious fans.  They've caused me stand and up scream "Jesus Christ" more times than I can count.

boooooo

 

[The Commish]

Why do I have a feeling had they gone with vaccine certificate instead of passport, we'd be having a different conversation?  

 

[Mister CIA]

Also, as far as religious exceptions go, the Bills have traditionally been very supportive of their religious fans.  They've caused me stand and up scream "Jesus Christ" more times than I can count.

May you be blessed with Holy ####s, Bill fans.

 

[-fish-]

Why do I have a feeling had they gone with vaccine certificate instead of passport, we'd be having a different conversation?  

or coupon.   everyone likes a good coupon.

 

[parasaurolophus]

Why do I have a feeling had they gone with vaccine certificate instead of passport, we'd be having a different conversation?  

I dont understand the difference. Whats the negative connotation with passport?

 

[The Commish]

I dont understand the difference. Whats the negative connotation with passport?

Not really sure...but it's clearly there  To a lot of these people the slightest difference is huge....like asking them if they support ACA vs if they support Obamacare.  

 

[parasaurolophus]

Not really sure...but it's clearly there  To a lot of these people the slightest difference is huge....like asking them if they support ACA vs if they support Obamacare.  

Youre not sure but you know it exists? 

The only thing I can think of that people would resist passport is because it was originally presented as an app. Lots of people hate apps and lots of people dont have smartphones. 

But changing to certificate and still requiring an app wouldnt get around that. 

Maybe some people would think you need to have an actual passport and get a stamp or something, but this would be a small contingent. 

 

[The Commish]

Youre not sure but you know it exists? 

The only thing I can think of that people would resist passport is because it was originally presented as an app. Lots of people hate apps and lots of people dont have smartphones. 

But changing to certificate and still requiring an app wouldnt get around that. 

Maybe some people would think you need to have an actual passport and get a stamp or something, but this would be a small contingent. 

Yes...can you not see it?  There are plenty of things in this world that I see, but I don't understand  

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

Yes...can you not see it?  There are plenty of things in this world that I see, but I don't understand  

I agree with @parasaurolophus that the opposition to the concept of vaccine passports is not due to them being called “vaccine passports.”

 

[The Commish]

I agree with @parasaurolophus that the opposition to the concept of vaccine passports is not due to them being called “vaccine passports.”

So you guys think the position is "hey, I have no problem showing your proof of vaccination but I will NOT show it to you via an app"?  That's even more puzzling to me.  I thought it was more about marketing, but maybe you guys are right  

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

So you guys think the position is "hey, I have no problem showing your proof of vaccination but I will NOT show it to you via an app"?  That's even more puzzling to me.  I thought it was more about marketing, but maybe you guys are right  

Honestly, what the hell are you talking about?

 

[parasaurolophus]

So you guys think the position is "hey, I have no problem showing your proof of vaccination but I will NOT show it to you via an app"?  That's even more puzzling to me.  I thought it was more about marketing, but maybe you guys are right  

No. We think the opposition is to having to get vaccinated to go to the store. 

I was just trying to come up with any possible reasons for your theory. 

 

[The Commish]

No. We think the opposition is to having to get vaccinated to go to the store. 

I was just trying to come up with any possible reasons for your theory. 

fair enough....that's even more puzzling given the overlap of people who were opposed to businesses being told what to do just this last year.  Do they want businesses making decisions that they feel are right for them or not?

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

fair enough....that's even more puzzling given the overlap of people who were opposed to businesses being told what to do just this last year.  Do they want businesses making decisions that they feel are right for them or not?

One of these one of your ridiculous gotchas will make sense.  Keep trying

 

[The Commish]

One of these one of your ridiculous gotchas will make sense.  Keep trying

If how para and FG are correct in their interpretation, it's not a gotcha

 

[parasaurolophus]

fair enough....that's even more puzzling given the overlap of people who were opposed to businesses being told what to do just this last year.  Do they want businesses making decisions that they feel are right for them or not?

I dont think it is puzzling at all. 

You are creating a narrow framework.

Advocating that the government shouldnt be able to arbitrarily close down some businesses and let others stay open or being against mask mandates but then also arguing that businesses shouldnt be able to limit entrance based on being vaccinated isnt hypocritical. They already lost the first two. It is a really disingenuous argument to try and say that those people just need to take the L's and then suck it up again to be consistent. Results change positions in game. If an NFL coach that favors a running attack and wants rules against pass interference changed a hypocrite if he falls behind by three touchdowns and then starts passing the ball all over the field and calling intentional underthrows to get PI calls in order to win the game?

I bet if you asked most people that hold that position if they could go back in time and wave a magic wand and make it so the government wouldnt be able to shut down a business or enforce a mask mandate, but in exchange some of those businesses might forbid entry to people that havent been vaccinated that they would be willing to make that trade off. 

They would only be hypocrites if they wanted to have their cake and eat it too.

 

[The Commish]

I dont think it is puzzling at all. 

You are creating a narrow framework.

Advocating that the government shouldnt be able to arbitrarily close down some businesses and let others stay open or being against mask mandates but then also arguing that businesses shouldnt be able to limit entrance based on being vaccinated isnt hypocritical. They already lost the first two. It is a really disingenuous argument to try and say that those people just need to take the L's and then suck it up again to be consistent. Results change positions in game. If an NFL coach that favors a running attack and wants rules against pass interference changed a hypocrite if he falls behind by three touchdowns and then starts passing the ball all over the field and calling intentional underthrows to get PI calls in order to win the game?

I bet if you asked most people that hold that position if they could go back in time and wave a magic wand and make it so the government wouldnt be able to shut down a business or enforce a mask mandate, but in exchange some of those businesses might forbid entry to people that havent been vaccinated that they would be willing to make that trade off. 

They would only be hypocrites if they wanted to have their cake and eat it too.

The bold isn't even on my radar in terms of this conversation...as one who believes that sort of picking and choosing was completely stupid, I agree with anyone who also thinks it was dumb.  I am also not talking about being against mask mandates and being against limiting access based on being vaccinated...those are consistent.

I am talking about those (and there are many) who have said "hey businesses need to be allowed to do what they feel is best for themselves and their customers" (yes, some did make that statement during the mandate arguments, but not all of them...not most of them) are now saying "hey business, you aren't allowed to do what you think is right (requiring proof of vaccination in this case) for your business and customers".  THOSE are the people I am talking about.

ETA:  And maybe this isn't as widespread as I think...I try not to let my state issues drive the larger generalization, but sometimes I do.  That might be the case here but I feel like I've heard that in a pretty decent number of other places too.  

 

[Apple Jack]

Vaccine Passport would be a good pornstar name in the year or our lord 2021. Or Maxine ***port.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

i was issued a "vaccine passport" with a unique ID# and QR code, by the company handling the state sponsored sites, in my county.  orange county, CA  i also have the paper card.  happy to have both.

 

[quick-hands]

Vaccine Passport would be a good pornstar name in the year or our lord 2021. Or Maxine ***port.

Vicca Vaccine

 

[The Commish]

i was issued a "vaccine passport" with a unique ID# and QR code, by the company handling the state sponsored sites, in my county.  orange county, CA  i also have the paper card.  happy to have both.

I can't imagine the horror you are experiencing each and every day  

 

[Drunken Cowboy]

I am in Las Vegas this weekend. It would be amazing if there was a Casino requiring a vaccine passport. They would certainly get all of my business. 

 

[jm192]

I am in Las Vegas this weekend. It would be amazing if there was a Casino requiring a vaccine passport. They would certainly get all of my business. 

They'd probably lose out on more business from non-vaccinated patrons, so...

 

[whoknew]

Watching sports tonight, I’m totally pro-passport. There’s no reason we shouldn’t have stadia full of vaccinated folks. 

 

[The Commish]

Watching sports tonight, I’m totally pro-passport. There’s no reason we shouldn’t have stadia full of vaccinated folks. 

Yup.....don't understand the resistance....makes no logical sense whatsoever and it would be the ultimate incentive to get the vaccine.

 

[AAABatteries]

Yup.....don't understand the resistance....makes no logical sense whatsoever and it would be the ultimate incentive to get the vaccine.

Are you saying resistance to a vaccine passport makes no sense from those who are already vaccinated?  I would think for those who are anti-vax it makes perfect sense and I’d be surprised if there's a huge contingent of folks who are already vaccinated but oppose. I definitely could see their being some but not a lot.

 

[NorvilleBarnes]

Hate to sound like a broken record, but once again the left gets it backwards. The question isn't "Give me good reasons why you don't want the passport" but SHOULD be "Give me good reasons why we need it."

Also, more government control does not qualify as a good reason.

 

[the rover]

Hate to sound like a broken record, but once again the left gets it backwards. The question isn't "Give me good reasons why you don't want the passport" but SHOULD be "Give me good reasons why we need it."

Also, more government control does not qualify as a good reason.

It's not necessarily about government control.   Certain businesses are going to limit their events to people that are vaccinated.   Sporting events, concerts, flights, cruises, etc. run by private business are going to require proof.    Some governments may for international travel as well.   I'd like a single, unified approach that provides sufficient proof, rather than have to navigate something different for everything I want to do.  

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

Hate to sound like a broken record, but once again the left gets it backwards. The question isn't "Give me good reasons why you don't want the passport" but SHOULD be "Give me good reasons why we need it."

Incentivizing people to get vaccinated seems like a good reason to me.

 

[Apple Jack]

It's not necessarily about government control.   Certain businesses are going to limit their events to people that are vaccinated.   Sporting events, concerts, flights, cruises, etc. run by private business are going to require proof.    Some governments may for international travel as well.   I'd like a single, unified approach that provides sufficient proof, rather than have to navigate something different for everything I want to do.  

Let's hope so anyway.

 

[The Commish]

Are you saying resistance to a vaccine passport makes no sense from those who are already vaccinated?  I would think for those who are anti-vax it makes perfect sense and I’d be surprised if there's a huge contingent of folks who are already vaccinated but oppose. I definitely could see their being some but not a lot.

By either group honestly especially if they own a cellphone and are claiming "privacy" as their reason.

 

[The Commish]

Hate to sound like a broken record, but once again the left gets it backwards. The question isn't "Give me good reasons why you don't want the passport" but SHOULD be "Give me good reasons why we need it."

Also, more government control does not qualify as a good reason.

So businesses can make rules they feel are best for them and their customers.  That good enough?

 

[NorvilleBarnes]

Incentivizing people to get vaccinated seems like a good reason to me.

I'm really sorry to hear this. 

Also, just a reminder to all (not just fatguy) much like there is a difference between immigration and illegal immigration and there is a difference between wearing a mask and being mandated to wear a mask, there is also a difference between getting vaccinated and getting a vaccine "passport".

 

[The General]

I'm really sorry to hear this. 

Also, just a reminder to all (not just fatguy) much like there is a difference between immigration and illegal immigration and there is a difference between wearing a mask and being mandated to wear a mask, there is also a difference between getting vaccinated and getting a vaccine "passport".

What would that be?

 

[NorvilleBarnes]

So businesses can make rules they feel are best for them and their customers.  That good enough?

Generally yes (I personally have exceptions that aren't part of this topic). If a business wants to require their customers be vaccinated, no problem. If they want to require their customers also have a vaccine "passport", also no problem but I just probably won't be a customer.

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

Generally yes (I personally have exceptions that aren't part of this topic). If a business wants to require their customers be vaccinated, no problem. If they want to require their customers also have a vaccine "passport", also no problem but I just probably won't be a customer.

I’m confused about how a business would require customers to be vaccinated without something to prove who has been vaccinated.

 

[NorvilleBarnes]

I’m confused about how a business would require customers to be vaccinated without something to prove who has been vaccinated.

This may be where a lot of confusion lies. The vaccine "passport" is not the only way. Indeed, we've have vaccines for a long time, for a lot of different things. Some are required by schools, some are required by foreign governments to get a visa. We've never had a vaccine "passport" before and we were all able to meet various requirements without it. I'm a little surprised at how some cannot imagine an alternative when it never existed before.

 

[NorvilleBarnes]

"Just sign up for this innocent little government program and you can simply have your freedom back" is the type of BS "incentive" that should be  completely rejected by those of all ideologies.

 

[tonydead]

What's wrong with the vaccine card they give you?  And if they make it some sort of government ID how are the poor and the black going to get it when they can't even get regular state IDs?

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

 Some are required by schools, some are required by foreign governments to get a visa. We've never had a vaccine "passport" before and we were all able to meet various requirements without it.

Every time we need to prove that my kid is vaccinated so that she can go to summer camp, we have to go to her pediatrician’s office to get a form filled out to submit to the camp.  Are you expecting people to get notes from their doctor to go to a basketball game?

 

[NorvilleBarnes]

Every time we need to prove that my kid is vaccinated so that she can go to summer camp, we have to go to her pediatrician’s office to get a form filled out to submit to the camp.  Are you expecting people to get notes from their doctor to go to a basketball game?

Am >>>I<<< expecting that?!

(wicker chair sloth) How about . . . No.

 

[tonydead]

Every time we need to prove that my kid is vaccinated so that she can go to summer camp, we have to go to her pediatrician’s office to get a form filled out to submit to the camp.  Are you expecting people to get notes from their doctor to go to a basketball game?

  That would be up to the business, ballpark or summer camp if they wanted to self impose those restrictions upon themselves.

 

[-fish-]

This may be where a lot of confusion lies. The vaccine "passport" is not the only way. Indeed, we've have vaccines for a long time, for a lot of different things. Some are required by schools, some are required by foreign governments to get a visa. We've never had a vaccine "passport" before and we were all able to meet various requirements without it. I'm a little surprised at how some cannot imagine an alternative when it never existed before.

It’s hard to understand what you think a vaccine passport is.  If you have to prove you have been vaccinated against yellow fever to enter a country, that’a essentially the same thing.  

 

[kwille]

This may be where a lot of confusion lies. The vaccine "passport" is not the only way. Indeed, we've have vaccines for a long time, for a lot of different things. Some are required by schools, some are required by foreign governments to get a visa. We've never had a vaccine "passport" before and we were all able to meet various requirements without it. I'm a little surprised at how some cannot imagine an alternative when it never existed before.

These are examples of needing something equivalent to a vaccine passport. We usually call them vaccine cards. They're pretty much the same.... tangible proof of vaccination provided as a key part of risk mitigation to participate in certain activities.

 

[NorvilleBarnes]

It’s hard to understand what you think a vaccine passport is.  If you have to prove you have been vaccinated against yellow fever to enter a country, that’a essentially the same thing.  

No.

But you raise a good point. Because the left is so used to abusing language ( see "Black lives matter", "Covid Relief", "Follow the Science" etc) that the "Vaccine Passport" BS can be confusing because there is no passport. Many will sign up for it - or at least not object to it like they should - because it sounds so pleasant and harmless.

 

[kwille]

The central question remains, how much of this do we want to do with COVID? That is certainly debatable.