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Vernand Morency (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Macdaddy_2004
- Start date
Macdaddy_2004
Footballguy
DD still not signed to an extensionMorency will have a fair shake at this job by mid-seasonI don't need a coaching staff to tell me what they think - everything in the NFL is coach speakAt some point Capers will figure out that he needs some yardage on 1st and 2nd downs
M
MelvinTScupper
Guest
God, you're a goofball.
Macdaddy_2004
Footballguy
I'll closely be monitoring Morrency's progress throughout the pre-season - get ready for a full fledged RBBC by game 10
Macdaddy_2004
Footballguy
And why would you want to draft Morrency ?? The rest here seem to think that he is no threat to Davis and his playtimeMacdaddy_2004, please do me a favor and let this thread die. I own Davis in a dynasty league and would like to draft Morency late as a handcuff. The more pub he gets, the harder that will be.TIA
Macdaddy_2004
Footballguy
Alright thanI'll bump this thread come week 10Perhaps maybe even before
M
MelvinTScupper
Guest
perhaps? you've bumped it like 3 times in the last 7 days, and it's barely full blown training camp season.
Just a note from a Texans homer -- the team is completely sold on DDavis and will likely grant a 5-year extension at some point this preseason/season. Wells is not a true backup and will be used at fullback this year, but moreso like Alstott is used at FB. Wells will never be confused for a true tailback, but he can be a great contributor. Hollings was the Texans' project, but with injuries, he's just never panned out. One thing you have to understand about Capers and Casserly -- they are a one-back team, but they do believe that you can never have enough good RBs. With free agency, injuries, and potential contract issues, they just want to be covered. Morency will see no more of the field this year than Hollings did last year, barring serious injury to DD. Morency will be developed and either win the job outright (not this year and maybe never), traded away, or kept in reserve until contractual or injury situations merit his use.
LOL to this thread! 
I'm actually mildly excited about VM's long-term potential to be a fantasy contributor, but to have him being pegged as making a solid, regular contributions (barring injury to DD) as early as Week 10 just seems a bit over-enthusiastic to me. Heck, how about all those Tony Hollings pimps who were thinking that he'd be kicking DD to the curb as well? DD just doesn't seem to go away, no matter how many of us are waiting and watching for someone else to take his starting job.I don't know.....I think VM could be a decent fantasy player in a year or two, but Levin might have to be repremanded by Joe and David for taking advantage of Macdaddy with this particular sig bet. Don't want to scare off the "locals", you know.... 
I'm actually mildly excited about VM's long-term potential to be a fantasy contributor, but to have him being pegged as making a solid, regular contributions (barring injury to DD) as early as Week 10 just seems a bit over-enthusiastic to me. Heck, how about all those Tony Hollings pimps who were thinking that he'd be kicking DD to the curb as well? DD just doesn't seem to go away, no matter how many of us are waiting and watching for someone else to take his starting job.I don't know.....I think VM could be a decent fantasy player in a year or two, but Levin might have to be repremanded by Joe and David for taking advantage of Macdaddy with this particular sig bet. Don't want to scare off the "locals", you know.... 
Marc Levin
Hangs out with Oscar Zeta Acosta
Hate to re-bump, AGAIN, but there is actually a lot of statistical data supporting MacDaddy's assertion that DD has not done particularly well rushing the ball on 1st and 2nd down. He's 48th in the league over 2003 and 2004 in yards per attempt on 1st and 2nd down.That said, he is 6th in that same time period in yards per rush on 3rd, he's 21st in yards per reception (that is very high, actually) on 1st-3rd down and 22nd on third downs only in yard per reception.These numbers def, support the assertion that he has not been good (at least statistically) at rushing the ball on 1st and 2nd down, and that he is excellent on third downs. Whether that is because of DD or because of the OL is up for debate, I am just throwing the numbers out there.That said, MacDaddy attacked DD's receiving ability as well, and there he's simply off his rocker.
ILUVBEER99
Footballguy
Could it be his stats are so good on 3rd down since he is so bad on 1st and 2nd? When it's 3rd and 4 or 5 it is a lot easier to run, and it also puts him in a position to get a lot of dump off passes. So his sucking on 1st and 2nd actually helps him get a lot of stats on 3rd down.I agree that DD is a great recieving back, so even if down the line he loses some touches on 1st and 2nd he will always have a role on 3rd down.
Marc Levin
Hangs out with Oscar Zeta Acosta
That's a cop-out argument as you igtnored the final statement - up for debate is whether that is DD or the OL. Especially the 2003 numbers that are, admittedly, behind a poor expansion offensive line.This year will determine OL v. DD as the OL went through a drastic improvement between game 1 2004 and game 10 2004, and they are now yet another year into the system, and they return the same personnel as last year for the first time in their short history.
Adrian Peterson
Footballguy
I think one thing to remember is the Texans wanted to move Jonathon Wells to FB - this meant their depth chart was down to Dom and Hollings - who is injury prone himself. They entered the draft knowing they were going to get a back - and they did - but not as Dom's repalcement. They have talked contract extension - when it happens hopefully it will cool off some of this talk.
Marc Levin
Hangs out with Oscar Zeta Acosta
absolutely - look at Ricky Williams' 2003 1st and 2nd down numbers versus his 2002 1st and 2nd down numbers. His 2003 1st and 2nd down numbers were WAY worse - I mean WAY WAY worse - than Dom Davis' numbers in 2003 and 2004. Is Ricky Williams a third down back - is he able to get the job done on 1st and 2nd down? Is he a three down back? Blaming 1st and 2nd down rushing production exclusively on the RB and thinkinig the team need a change at RB to make 1st and 2nd down rushing numbers suddenly golden is simplistic, and lacks any in-depth analysis of the reasons why the team struggles ruishing on 1st and 2nd.
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Warsteinner
Footballguy
Chitown Mole
Footballguy
Wells won't play at FB. He got some snaps in mini camp because he isn't cutting it as a running back. Many times guys on the edge get a look at another position before they are launched. He can't beat out Norris and he will battle Baxter (the back up fullback) for a roster spot.
Marc Levin
Hangs out with Oscar Zeta Acosta
I did the Houston team spotlight last year and was impressed with the Texans' fullback crew.
Marc Levin
Hangs out with Oscar Zeta Acosta
:coughcough
avis - 173 combined yardage today on 27 touches - 19 carries, 130 yards, 6.8 YPCOn the year he is 3.9 YPC on 1st and 2nd down12 targets, 8 catches, 59 yards on 1st and 2nd down.And that is WITHOUT todays' numbers, which will bump all those numbers skyward.Unless he's hurt, Dom Davis is not losing carries to anyone.BTW, Vernand Morency is amazing on returns, but he is not seeing any game time.
avis - 173 combined yardage today on 27 touches - 19 carries, 130 yards, 6.8 YPCOn the year he is 3.9 YPC on 1st and 2nd down12 targets, 8 catches, 59 yards on 1st and 2nd down.And that is WITHOUT todays' numbers, which will bump all those numbers skyward.Unless he's hurt, Dom Davis is not losing carries to anyone.BTW, Vernand Morency is amazing on returns, but he is not seeing any game time.
Marc Levin
Hangs out with Oscar Zeta Acosta
Marc Levin
Hangs out with Oscar Zeta Acosta
Marc Levin
Hangs out with Oscar Zeta Acosta
Morency:16 carries, 57 yards, 3.56 YPCweek 10:6 carries, 18 yardsweek 110/0week 12:0/0He is not injured.DD:179/682, 3.81 YPCweek 10:0/0 (injury)week 11:13/57week 12:25/78For anyone still keeping track.
C
Cunning Linguist
Guest
I have had Morency almost all season as a sort of handcuff. With one more week of tranactions, I am going to drop him and possibly pick up a defense to go with the Cowboys. Worthlesss.
Marc Levin
Hangs out with Oscar Zeta Acosta
Cool, just as long as you wait until after the season starts
KnowledgeReignsSupreme
Footballguy
Not J-Wells as the handcuff?
Marc Levin
Hangs out with Oscar Zeta Acosta
he'll definitely be in my top-10 RBs next year and I'sd probably select him ahead of all the QBs and probably all the WRs except CJohn.
Holy Schneikes
Footballguy
Levin, I was (and am) one of the Davis detractors this off-season, and I have a hard time figuring out why you'd want to make such a big deal out of this.Has Morency looked great and eaten into Dom's carries? No, he hasn't. But if we broaden the scope of this overall Dom discussion, here's what we have:A guy who is running for a 3.8 YPC average with other, historically mediocre backs on his team doing just as well (Wells),Playing for a team with the 2nd worst offense in the league (you can argue that this is holding him back, and it probably is to some degree, but I think the causal relationship goes more in the other direction),Who continues to miss games due to injury, andWho has a the 41st best 1st down rushing average in the league while both Morency AND Wells have averaged about .5 YPC MORE than Davis on 1st (this was my main gripe with him last year also and one of the reasons I think he is mis-cast as a feature back).When he has played, the team has averaged about 15 points/game INCLUDING their big 27 point output against the worst defensive team in the league - St Louis. When he hasn't played, the team has scored 15.5 points/game in two games ON THE ROAD against teams who are both top 5 in points against.Bottom line is that he is still occasionally racking up decent fantasy points, but is still an ineffective NFL feature back, and will definitely face more competition in the future.
Marc Levin
Hangs out with Oscar Zeta Acosta
Ummm - read MacDaddy's comments and his insistence on some kind of bet that he didn't follow through with and his guarantee to bump this in week 10 (which he didn't do) and you'll see why I keep bumping it each week.I will stop now since I have obviously made my point - but I am surprised you don't understand why I'd keep bumping this thread.This is not about Davis detraction- it was about Morency pimping at Davis' expense.edit - if it was about Davis detraction on the points you mentioned - fine. But it was not. This thread was WAY more than that. And DD has CLEARLY been the most productive and most explosive Houston back - his catch for the 30+ yard TD was beautiful. He has been anything except mediocre for Houston - and he has looked good doing it (by the limited amount of Houston games I have been exposed to, DD has looked very good).
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Marc Levin
Hangs out with Oscar Zeta Acosta
since I saw MacDaddy post a new thread less than an hour ago . . .
redman
Footballguy
Funny bump because I was about ready to ask what the Reggie Bush speculators were thinking was going to happen to DD and VM assuming the Texans draft Bush. It would seem logical to trade DD and keep VM as Bush's backup which, ironically, may boost DD's value depending upon who he lands with. For example, if DD goes to the Cards and helps their run game, that could be a very potent offense. What's the consensus?
Marc Levin
Hangs out with Oscar Zeta Acosta
Keep both and start Reggie in part time duty with DD.Maybe trade DD in 2 ab (year 2 After Bush). They DID just committ a LOT of cap money to DD. Bush WILL need a few games before giving him the reins and the Texans could really use a spark plug on KR/PR. Also, it is really hard to figure what the new Houston Texans will do once Capers is gone.Also, I could see Houston as one of the few teams willing to trade down out of the Bush derby to the #3 or #4 and pick up a world of picks (ala SD with River/Manning) and be content with Vince Young or Ferguson from the #3 or #4 spot (assuming it goes Bush then Leinert 1-2)
redman
Footballguy
Unlike most teams, the cap situation probably doesn't impact their decision with DD if they draft Bush. They're rebuilding, which means they will likely be well below the cap anyway with a lot of younger players next year. I happen to think that DD is a good "buy low" candidate right now to grab on speculation. His value can't get much lower even if they draft Bush because his days there will be numbered. His upside is huge however because 1) they may not in fact draft Bush; 2) the team's simply got to improve over what it's doing this year; and 3) if they do draft Bush and trade him, only a team needing a starting RB will be a trade partner (which is why I mentioned AZ), which means he lands there as the primary ball carrier.
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Marc Levin
Hangs out with Oscar Zeta Acosta
Any of the teams currently lookin at the #3, #4 and #5 spots would probably be willing to move up for Bush.
redman
Footballguy
And (this is key) pay a king's ransom for that given that Bush is the player they're inevitably trading up for. This is why I think Houston could in fact trade down, because they could receive this and next year's 1st's, as well as this year's 2nd and 3rd or thereabouts, and all from a team that's drafting early in each round.
Marc Levin
Hangs out with Oscar Zeta Acosta
Yup - exactly my point.With DD on board, trading down to 3 or 4, getting Ferguson, and having some other crappy team's #1 and #2 next year could be a huge move for them.
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Marc Levin
Hangs out with Oscar Zeta Acosta
Yes, but it is not at the lowest it'll be - if Hou is draftring #1, that is when you buy DD.
