Vick another good game or will his groin hinder him... (1 Viewer)

[FantasyGuru#1]

Hey guys Vick has shown to be a very consistent fantasy producer all year long.. Now this week he has a groin will that hinder him in any way... 2 positives for him one hes listed as probable and expected to start and the other is he practiced fully today...

 

[FantasyGuru#1]

Anyone have input on this

 

[Dave Stauff]

Well, I will say there are plenty of us who care. I've got him starting in a championship game (over Green, Pennington and Leinart) because he's the guy that got me this far and the best bet for top five numbers. I'm very aware, however, that even without a groin issue, he could put up horrible stats. His rushing yards are what's set him above others this year, but if he can't move effectively because of his groin, I could be in trouble . . .

 

[faulkfan]

Vick's production is so tied to the scoring system of your league.

In my $ league Yardage points start at 250 yds in a game so Vick rarely gets me anything there. We get 4 pts for passing TDs so Vick doesn't put up much there either. Finally, our rushing yardage points start at 50 yds which he puts up about 60% of the time. In this format Vick is a middle to lower tier QB and I am thinking of sitting him for Tim Rattay this week in the 1st round of our playoffs.

As for his health, all the stuff I've read sounds positive. He practiced fully and is listed as probable. My worries are the imprtance of his legs and a groin injury could limit his most valuable asset.

If you have generous yardage points that give bonuses for rushing yards from your QB then I can see him being a solid option even with the questionable groin, but if you work off more of a stripped down points model like we do then he is a marginal play.

I have to have my lineup for he whole weekend in before today's game so Rattay may just be the guy.

 

[Bad_Mo]

To me, its more of a crap shoot with this groin issue. Normally, Vick gets me points with his legs. When he passes for a score or two, and throws for a tad over 100 yards, that's ok with me. Two weeks ago, when he did not run as usual, he scored me 4 points. Last week, he put up 35 (highest total of the year, btw).

I am considering Lenairt v. SF and (newly picked up) Rattay v. CLE....

Probably will stick with Vick - live or die with him.

 

[tick dog]

To me, its more of a crap shoot with this groin issue. Normally, Vick gets me points with his legs. When he passes for a score or two, and throws for a tad over 100 yards, that's ok with me. Two weeks ago, when he did not run as usual, he scored me 4 points. Last week, he put up 35 (highest total of the year, btw).I am considering Lenairt v. SF and (newly picked up) Rattay v. CLE.... Probably will stick with Vick - live or die with him.

my situation exactly. our league awards 1pt/10yds rushing so vick's 50-60 yds rushing = about 150 yards passing. he's been good to great all year minus the occaisional stinker like vs. TB.that said, with the groin, i'm strongly considering starting cutler at home cs. CIN. can't risk vick blowing his groin on the 3rd play and schaub taking over all game.

 

[ooofffaaa]

I was also debating whether to start Rattay over Vick this week.

I just checked FBG's rankings for the week and noticed the following . . .

Vick is ranked 5th overall this week.

Rattay is ranked 31st out of 32 this week.

I'm confused? Did the Browns suddenly find a secondary last night?

 

[Londo]

If Vick's groin is bothering him during the game, I could see him passing a lot more than normal. Now, the issue (as it has been all season) is that his receivers drop a lot of easily catchable balls. If they can snag one or two of those, Vick could end up with a pretty good stat line despite the rushing totals.

I also think that Vick really wants to hit 1000 rushing yards, so bad groin or not, he will try to scamper for as much as he can get. It really wouldn't surprise me if he came out of the gate rushing (get the record out of the way early and focus on the game plan).

I will be starting Vick this weekend and hoping for some combination that adds up to 18+ points in my scoring systm. Anything more than that will be gravy.

 

[smcindoe]

Keep in mind that he's at home. With the exception of the Cincy game he's been a much better play at home this year. All three of his 100+ rushing games were at home, and in fact all of his games of 60+ rushing were in domes.

 

[Traders2001]

I was also debating whether to start Rattay over Vick this week.I just checked FBG's rankings for the week and noticed the following . . . Vick is ranked 5th overall this week.Rattay is ranked 31st out of 32 this week.I'm confused? Did the Browns suddenly find a secondary last night?

They did nt find a secondary but you are talking Rattay here a career thid QB .

 

[trogg78]

Right now I've got pennignton in over vick. Vick has been a great fantasy producer this year...but I dont know if I cant count on him...or that miserable falcons team that seems to be completely falling apart.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Anyone have input on this

 

[Family Matters]

If Vick's groin is bothering him during the game, I could see him passing a lot more than normal. Now, the issue (as it has been all season) is that his receivers drop a lot of easily catchable balls. If they can snag one or two of those, Vick could end up with a pretty good stat line despite the rushing totals.

I also think that Vick really wants to hit 1000 rushing yards, so bad groin or not, he will try to scamper for as much as he can get. It really wouldn't surprise me if he came out of the gate rushing (get the record out of the way early and focus on the game plan).

I will be starting Vick this weekend and hoping for some combination that adds up to 18+ points in my scoring systm. Anything more than that will be gravy.

I'm not picking on you Londo it's just I find it interesting that some think that's "THE ISSUE" when it comes to Vick passing the football. Fact is all teams deal with dropped balls. For example TO leads the league in dropped balls. DJax also is right up there. Even Harrison has his fair share. And yet their QB's continue to be must starts most weeks because of their passing success. They still manage to throw effectively. Vick has not been able to have the same success unless his WR's are perfect. That's why he runs so much. And that running is where he makes up for the passing which in most leagues plays right into the scoring system. I wouldn't expect their WR's (or anyone else's for that matter) to be near perfect.But as far as being the QB is concerned, dropped balls is far from being "The Issue" with Vick.

I am speculating somewhat with these next comments/theories so fell free to dispute them but throwing balls well short of their target for example continues to plague him. High wild throws and throws at the feet are hard to catch. Laser line throws must be difficut for WR's to see coming at the speed in which he throws them. Sure, he gets the ball there but sometimes he throws a flat pass that is hard for WR's to adjust to compared to other QB's. Most QB's have more arc that makes the ball easier to see. I'm not making excuses for the WR's (lord knows they've dropped their share) but if you are used to passes coming at a certain arc and have learned to catch those balls and now you have trouble seeing the ball because it's flat and fast then I could understand it being harder to catch those especially at the speed he throws them. Further, I can understand Vick having more trouble with accuracy throwing that way.

I know Favre throws hard at times and I notice when he does they are more difficult to catch. But Favre also throws a nice touch pass. Vick has had trouble easing up on touch passes.

Also, even if you feel this is the problem or even if you say it's not, one thing that is without doubt, Vick is inconsistent. He rarely makes the same throws from game to game or play to play. If doesn't get into a rhythem then how does is WR's and TE's? I don't know but I'm just saying.

Finally, why did Vick stop throwing to Dunn? He was one the best pass catching RB's in the NFL and Vick rarely uses him. I think this one fact alone has hurt Vick's numbers. It's changed the defenses play him. Before they had to account for Dunn. Not anymore and to me that means they can drop their LB's back and defend the middle of the field better thus taking away many options for Vick. I really do not understand this at all. That has to be on the coaches as far as I'm concerned. It's probably the worst secret out there among defensive coordinators. Put Dunn in play again and I think Vick's number (passing and rushing) improve nicely.

So rather than just rant about Vick the passer, I have offerred a few solutions as well. Trying to keep it balanced as I have thought alot about why Vick's results are not better. Theyr could be and I think Mora and the coaches have to bare alot alot of balme for this as well.

 

[bbuster]

I was also debating whether to start Rattay over Vick this week.I just checked FBG's rankings for the week and noticed the following . . . Vick is ranked 5th overall this week.Rattay is ranked 31st out of 32 this week.I'm confused? Did the Browns suddenly find a secondary last night?

In most leagues Vick scores his points with his legs, so I am personally very nervous about the groin issue.I don't really agree that Vick has been terribly inconsistent. He just doesn't put up his points the same way each week. Most weeks with his legs and occasionally with his arm. I'm very thankful that I have a legit option for this week other than Vick...I just don't trust that he's going to be in there all day.In terms of Rattay, I think anyone who started VOLEK in week 16 over the last couple of years following his strong outings can understand why Rattay is ranked so low.

 

[Londo]

If Vick's groin is bothering him during the game, I could see him passing a lot more than normal. Now, the issue (as it has been all season) is that his receivers drop a lot of easily catchable balls. If they can snag one or two of those, Vick could end up with a pretty good stat line despite the rushing totals.

I also think that Vick really wants to hit 1000 rushing yards, so bad groin or not, he will try to scamper for as much as he can get. It really wouldn't surprise me if he came out of the gate rushing (get the record out of the way early and focus on the game plan).

I will be starting Vick this weekend and hoping for some combination that adds up to 18+ points in my scoring systm. Anything more than that will be gravy.

I'm not picking on you Londo it's just I find it interesting that some think that's "THE ISSUE" when it comes to Vick passing the football. Fact is all teams deal with dropped balls. For example TO leads the league in dropped balls. DJax also is right up there. Even Harrison has his fair share. And yet their QB's continue to be must starts most weeks because of their passing success. They still manage to throw effectively. Vick has not been able to have the same success unless his WR's are perfect. That's why he runs so much. And that running is where he makes up for the passing which in most leagues plays right into the scoring system. I wouldn't expect their WR's (or anyone else's for that matter) to be near perfect.But as far as being the QB is concerned, dropped balls is far from being "The Issue" with Vick.

I am speculating somewhat with these next comments/theories so fell free to dispute them but throwing balls well short of their target for example continues to plague him. High wild throws and throws at the feet are hard to catch. Laser line throws must be difficut for WR's to see coming at the speed in which he throws them. Sure, he gets the ball there but sometimes he throws a flat pass that is hard for WR's to adjust to compared to other QB's. Most QB's have more arc that makes the ball easier to see. I'm not making excuses for the WR's (lord knows they've dropped their share) but if you are used to passes coming at a certain arc and have learned to catch those balls and now you have trouble seeing the ball because it's flat and fast then I could understand it being harder to catch those especially at the speed he throws them. Further, I can understand Vick having more trouble with accuracy throwing that way.

I know Favre throws hard at times and I notice when he does they are more difficult to catch. But Favre also throws a nice touch pass. Vick has had trouble easing up on touch passes.

Also, even if you feel this is the problem or even if you say it's not, one thing that is without doubt, Vick is inconsistent. He rarely makes the same throws from game to game or play to play. If doesn't get into a rhythem then how does is WR's and TE's? I don't know but I'm just saying.

Finally, why did Vick stop throwing to Dunn? He was one the best pass catching RB's in the NFL and Vick rarely uses him. I think this one fact alone has hurt Vick's numbers. It's changed the defenses play him. Before they had to account for Dunn. Not anymore and to me that means they can drop their LB's back and defend the middle of the field better thus taking away many options for Vick. I really do not understand this at all. That has to be on the coaches as far as I'm concerned. It's probably the worst secret out there among defensive coordinators. Put Dunn in play again and I think Vick's number (passing and rushing) improve nicely.

So rather than just rant about Vick the passer, I have offerred a few solutions as well. Trying to keep it balanced as I have thought alot about why Vick's results are not better. Theyr could be and I think Mora and the coaches have to bare alot alot of balme for this as well.

No worries man, I don't feel picked on Debate is what these forums are all about. For starters, I definitely don't mean to imply that Vick's only issue is his receivers. He definitely puts a lot of mustard on the ball, and his underthrows are, well, awful at times. However, you could also have said that about Daunte Culpepper a few years ago, but with Chris Carter and Randy Moss on his team, they caught a lot of those 'difficult' passes anyway, thus making Culpeppers numbers better.

A quick look at FBG's target numbers for the past 7+ weeks shows that Vicks top 3 WRs caught the following:

Jenkins = 75 targets, 36 receptions, for 48%

Lelie = 62 targets, 25 receptions, for 40.3 %

White = 54 targets, 25 receptions, for 46.3%

Even if you are generous and say that 25% of Vick's passes are uncatchable, those guys have just plain dropped the ball (both figuratively and literally).

Now apart from the numbers for a minute, into the qualitative realm. I lived in ATL for a good long while (not a Falcons fan), and I still watch most of their games. Vick's receiver trio seems to be lost on the field a lot of the time, missing routes, dropping passes when no one is within 10 yards of them, etc. I can't explain it, because I think they have more talent than they are showing on the field. Could some of this be Vick's fault, probably. But from what I have seen, they are just not that good.

I agree completely with your assessment that Vick is not consistent as a passer and makes up for it with his legs, (again ala Culpepper), but I have to wonder if his inconsistency could be aided with a receiver who was a great route runner and had excellent hands (think Chad Johnson). Someone who is almost always where they are supposed to be, and won't drop a lot of passes in the open field, regardless of how they are thrown.

As far as your point about Dunn, it's another excellent point. I have no clue why they got away from the HB screen passes this season. It may be the "let Vick be Vick" mentality that Mora has gone with this season, or it could be that Dunn isn't as reliable as before (I honestly don't know). My initial opinion is that Vick's record-breaking rushing season has come at the detriment of Dunn's offensive involvement (but that's a lay-person's opinion).

In the end, I think we can agree on one thing: Vick is a fantasy force due to his rushing and the occasional excellent passing effort.

 

[H.K.]

In most leagues Vick scores his points with his legs, so I am personally very nervous about the groin issue.

I don't really agree that Vick has been terribly inconsistent. He just doesn't put up his points the same way each week. Most weeks with his legs and occasionally with his arm. I'm very thankful that I have a legit option for this week other than Vick...I just don't trust that he's going to be in there all day.

Great post. I agree and I'm benching him this week.In my league, 43% of Vick's FF production has come as a result of him running this season.

If he can't move, better to take your chances with a better passer.

 

[Tau837]

A quick look at FBG's target numbers for the past 7+ weeks shows that Vicks top 3 WRs caught the following:

Jenkins = 75 targets, 36 receptions, for 48%

Lelie = 62 targets, 25 receptions, for 40.3 %

White = 54 targets, 25 receptions, for 46.3%

Even if you are generous and say that 25% of Vick's passes are uncatchable, those guys have just plain dropped the ball (both figuratively and literally).

Now apart from the numbers for a minute, into the qualitative realm. I lived in ATL for a good long while (not a Falcons fan), and I still watch most of their games. Vick's receiver trio seems to be lost on the field a lot of the time, missing routes, dropping passes when no one is within 10 yards of them, etc. I can't explain it, because I think they have more talent than they are showing on the field. Could some of this be Vick's fault, probably. But from what I have seen, they are just not that good.

Vick has made 60 poor throws this season, which is 16.9% of his passing attempts (LINK). To put that in context, here are some other QBseyton Manning - 13.2%

Brady - 14.6%

Bulger - 15.6%

Favre - 16.7%

McNabb - 19.3%

I don't know where to find a comprehensive list... I assume Vick is one of the worst starters, but the spread isn't very large. For example, he has thrown 3.7% more poor throws than Peyton Manning. For Vick, that is 13 more poor throws than Manning would throw in the same number of attempts Vick has this season. Less than one per game. More importantly, assuming 25% is far too high.

I agree that Vick is not a good passer, but much more fault for his lack of passing success lies with the receivers for both drops and failure to make more "makeable" plays and with his coaches for not putting him in an offensive scheme tailored to best fit his talents.

 

[Tau837]

Finally, why did Vick stop throwing to Dunn? He was one the best pass catching RB's in the NFL and Vick rarely uses him. I think this one fact alone has hurt Vick's numbers. It's changed the defenses play him. Before they had to account for Dunn. Not anymore and to me that means they can drop their LB's back and defend the middle of the field better thus taking away many options for Vick. I really do not understand this at all. That has to be on the coaches as far as I'm concerned. It's probably the worst secret out there among defensive coordinators. Put Dunn in play again and I think Vick's number (passing and rushing) improve nicely.

Why would you blame Vick for this?In 2002, Vick and Dunn both played 15 games under Dan Reeves. Vick attempted 421 passes. Dunn was targeted 66 times and caught 50.In 2003, under Reeves (and Phillips, who took over for the last few games), Dunn played only 11 games, but was targeted 52 times and caught 37 passes. Vick was hurt for much of that year.So, under Reeves, Dunn averaged over 4.5 targets per game, including 4.4 per game in the season that Vick was the primary starter.Since 2004, when Mora took over, Dunn has played 46 games, been targeted only 97 times, and caught only 76 passes. That's only 2.1 targets per game.To me, it appears that Mora is the reason that Dunn is not more of a factor in the passing game, not Vick. Could be because they hold Dunn in to pass block more often, or because they simply choose not to target him in their playcalling.Now, maybe you aren't meaning to blame Vick, but are really suggesting that the coaches should seek to involve Dunn more as a receiver. I agree. That is part of adjusting the offense to fit the players (both Vick and Dunn in this case), rather than fitting the players to the offense.ETA: Also, when you say "why did Vick stop throwing to Dunn", compared to when? Dunn only caught 29 passes in 2004 & 2005, about 1.8 per game. This season, he has 18 catches in 14 games so far, about 1.3 per game. It's a dropoff, but Dunn wasn't really very involved the past two seasons, either.

 

[Knightro]

I've played Vick every week he has been eligible. To remove the temptation of starting the wrong guy, I dropped my backup and picked up Schaub (not to mention, dynasty league so I could end up with a nice situation next year). The only way Vick sits for me is if he is out of the game.

 

[Family Matters]

Finally, why did Vick stop throwing to Dunn? He was one the best pass catching RB's in the NFL and Vick rarely uses him. I think this one fact alone has hurt Vick's numbers. It's changed the defenses play him. Before they had to account for Dunn. Not anymore and to me that means they can drop their LB's back and defend the middle of the field better thus taking away many options for Vick. I really do not understand this at all. That has to be on the coaches as far as I'm concerned. It's probably the worst secret out there among defensive coordinators. Put Dunn in play again and I think Vick's number (passing and rushing) improve nicely.

Why would you blame Vick for this?In 2002, Vick and Dunn both played 15 games under Dan Reeves. Vick attempted 421 passes. Dunn was targeted 66 times and caught 50.In 2003, under Reeves (and Phillips, who took over for the last few games), Dunn played only 11 games, but was targeted 52 times and caught 37 passes. Vick was hurt for much of that year.So, under Reeves, Dunn averaged over 4.5 targets per game, including 4.4 per game in the season that Vick was the primary starter.Since 2004, when Mora took over, Dunn has played 46 games, been targeted only 97 times, and caught only 76 passes. That's only 2.1 targets per game.To me, it appears that Mora is the reason that Dunn is not more of a factor in the passing game, not Vick. Could be because they hold Dunn in to pass block more often, or because they simply choose not to target him in their playcalling.Now, maybe you aren't meaning to blame Vick, but are really suggesting that the coaches should seek to involve Dunn more as a receiver. I agree. That is part of adjusting the offense to fit the players (both Vick and Dunn in this case), rather than fitting the players to the offense.ETA: Also, when you say "why did Vick stop throwing to Dunn", compared to when? Dunn only caught 29 passes in 2004 & 2005, about 1.8 per game. This season, he has 18 catches in 14 games so far, about 1.3 per game. It's a dropoff, but Dunn wasn't really very involved the past two seasons, either.

Actually I did say it was on the coaches. You must have missed it. Kind of like when Vick misses his recievers.

 

[Tau837]

Finally, why did Vick stop throwing to Dunn? He was one the best pass catching RB's in the NFL and Vick rarely uses him. I think this one fact alone has hurt Vick's numbers. It's changed the defenses play him. Before they had to account for Dunn. Not anymore and to me that means they can drop their LB's back and defend the middle of the field better thus taking away many options for Vick. I really do not understand this at all. That has to be on the coaches as far as I'm concerned. It's probably the worst secret out there among defensive coordinators. Put Dunn in play again and I think Vick's number (passing and rushing) improve nicely.

Why would you blame Vick for this?In 2002, Vick and Dunn both played 15 games under Dan Reeves. Vick attempted 421 passes. Dunn was targeted 66 times and caught 50.

In 2003, under Reeves (and Phillips, who took over for the last few games), Dunn played only 11 games, but was targeted 52 times and caught 37 passes. Vick was hurt for much of that year.

So, under Reeves, Dunn averaged over 4.5 targets per game, including 4.4 per game in the season that Vick was the primary starter.

Since 2004, when Mora took over, Dunn has played 46 games, been targeted only 97 times, and caught only 76 passes. That's only 2.1 targets per game.

To me, it appears that Mora is the reason that Dunn is not more of a factor in the passing game, not Vick. Could be because they hold Dunn in to pass block more often, or because they simply choose not to target him in their playcalling.

Now, maybe you aren't meaning to blame Vick, but are really suggesting that the coaches should seek to involve Dunn more as a receiver. I agree. That is part of adjusting the offense to fit the players (both Vick and Dunn in this case), rather than fitting the players to the offense.

ETA: Also, when you say "why did Vick stop throwing to Dunn", compared to when? Dunn only caught 29 passes in 2004 & 2005, about 1.8 per game. This season, he has 18 catches in 14 games so far, about 1.3 per game. It's a dropoff, but Dunn wasn't really very involved the past two seasons, either.

Actually I did say it was on the coaches. You must have missed it. Kind of like when Vick misses his recievers.

I saw your statement about the coaches but also saw the bolded statements, which make it sound like it was Vick's choice. If I misinterpreted that part and you just put it on the coaches, then we agree.

 

[Gator Shawn]

I'm faced with the biggest fantasy decision ever as I've made it to the finals of my money league.

Our scoring is 6 pts per TD, 1 per 50 passing, 1 per 20 rush/rec, plus ( 1 * completions ) - incompletions.

The last part of the stat is what makes Vick less valuable because even in his good games, he doesn't complete many passes.

So I am faced with starting Bulger against Wash or Vick against Carolina.

 

[Angry Beavers]

who to trust - Garcia or Vick - with the Championship on the line - this one hurts to think about

 

[tick dog]

who to trust - Garcia or Vick - with the Championship on the line - this one hurts to think about

i'm looking at vick or cutler (with walker now playing).oy.

 

[Alias]

who to trust - Garcia or Vick - with the Championship on the line - this one hurts to think about

I am in the same boat, my opponent is a HUGE eagles fan (apparently not enough to pickup Garcia) so I am very tempted to start him just to give him a heart attack.

 

[tick dog]

who to trust - Garcia or Vick - with the Championship on the line - this one hurts to think about

I am in the same boat, my opponent is a HUGE eagles fan (apparently not enough to pickup Garcia) so I am very tempted to start him just to give him a heart attack.

funny how that plays into it. the guy i'm playing also wanted cutler in free agency a couple weeks back, i snagged him a pick prior, he was pissed. would be hilarious if i then used cutler to beat him in title game.

 

[chris1969]

I'm sorry, when you posted the part about "will his groin hinder him?" I thought it was another Ron Mexico post.

 

[Mystery Achiever]

who to trust - Garcia or Vick - with the Championship on the line - this one hurts to think about

I am in the same boat, my opponent is a HUGE eagles fan (apparently not enough to pickup Garcia) so I am very tempted to start him just to give him a heart attack.

me,too - exc i am the eagles fan. dropped green for garcia this week since green plays tonight -- I wouldn't be able to play him or drop for someone else on sunday. garcia has been outscoring green, but i think we have to stick with vick if he plays. our championship is week 16+17..and they play each other week 17. garcia might actually be a better play then.

 

[NJ]

Anymore updated news on Vick? All I see is that he took part in some parts of practice Thursday, but I haven't seen anything about Friday? Was he able to practice fully on Friday? The Falcons website only has Mora's press conference from Thursday.

I have Vick in 3 different leagues in the Championship game and I am really concerned that he may start, aggravate the groin early in the game and not return giving me a goose egg in 3 leagues and costing me a boatload of money. I have crappy backups in all the leagues, guys like Losman and McNair, but if the groin is still bothering him I'd rather go with scrubs than a guy that might not make it through the first quarter.

Any info is appreciated. I'm hoping he was able to fully test the groin on Friday and is good to go this weekend.

 

[tchalyjr]

Anymore updated news on Vick? All I see is that he took part in some parts of practice Thursday, but I haven't seen anything about Friday? Was he able to practice fully on Friday? The Falcons website only has Mora's press conference from Thursday. I have Vick in 3 different leagues in the Championship game and I am really concerned that he may start, aggravate the groin early in the game and not return giving me a goose egg in 3 leagues and costing me a boatload of money. I have crappy backups in all the leagues, guys like Losman and McNair, but if the groin is still bothering him I'd rather go with scrubs than a guy that might not make it through the first quarter.Any info is appreciated. I'm hoping he was able to fully test the groin on Friday and is good to go this weekend.

Dec 22 2006 8:23PM Atlanta Falcons QB Michael Vick (groin) practiced Friday, Dec. 22, and will be available for Week 16. He is listed as probable on the team's injury report.

 

[sentr]

who to trust - Garcia or Vick - with the Championship on the line - this one hurts to think about

I am in the same boat, my opponent is a HUGE eagles fan (apparently not enough to pickup Garcia) so I am very tempted to start him just to give him a heart attack.

funny how that plays into it. the guy i'm playing also wanted cutler in free agency a couple weeks back, i snagged him a pick prior, he was pissed. would be hilarious if i then used cutler to beat him in title game.

Or........ it may be even funnier if Cutler lays a goose egg for you, crushing your hopes of winning and allows your opponent to win by 1 point and take home the $$$ and title. Irony at its finest.

 

[Traders2001]

Anymore updated news on Vick? All I see is that he took part in some parts of practice Thursday, but I haven't seen anything about Friday? Was he able to practice fully on Friday? The Falcons website only has Mora's press conference from Thursday. I have Vick in 3 different leagues in the Championship game and I am really concerned that he may start, aggravate the groin early in the game and not return giving me a goose egg in 3 leagues and costing me a boatload of money. I have crappy backups in all the leagues, guys like Losman and McNair, but if the groin is still bothering him I'd rather go with scrubs than a guy that might not make it through the first quarter.Any info is appreciated. I'm hoping he was able to fully test the groin on Friday and is good to go this weekend.

You think you have crappy back ups , if i dont play Vick i play Trent Green .So on my side the decision is easy.I f he practiced all week and is listed probable why would we be scared to use him .

 

[NJ]

I f he practiced all week and is listed probable why would we be scared to use him .

Well, maybe I'm just being paranoid, but I just don't know exactly what he did in practice Friday. I mean there is a big difference between taking part in drills and stuff vs. making plays with his legs at game speed. I am just concerned that the first time he takes off running he aggravates the groin injury and comes out of the game.

 

[Traders2001]

I f he practiced all week and is listed probable why would we be scared to use him .

Well, maybe I'm just being paranoid, but I just don't know exactly what he did in practice Friday. I mean there is a big difference between taking part in drills and stuff vs. making plays with his legs at game speed. I am just concerned that the first time he takes off running he aggravates the groin injury and comes out of the game.

He will be just fien , i am also kind of paranoid but not enough to bench him for Trent Green my second QB.

 

[H.K.]

who to trust - Garcia or Vick - with the Championship on the line - this one hurts to think about

I am in the same boat, my opponent is a HUGE eagles fan (apparently not enough to pickup Garcia) so I am very tempted to start him just to give him a heart attack.

funny how that plays into it. the guy i'm playing also wanted cutler in free agency a couple weeks back, i snagged him a pick prior, he was pissed. would be hilarious if i then used cutler to beat him in title game.

Or........ it may be even funnier if Cutler lays a goose egg for you, crushing your hopes of winning and allows your opponent to win by 1 point and take home the $$$ and title. Irony at its finest.

Exactly. Like I said earlier, if you can replace Vick with a better passer, then do it. However, Cutler is awful and one of the few QB's in the league that is less accurate than Vick.

 

[SteelerMurf]

who to trust - Garcia or Vick - with the Championship on the line - this one hurts to think about

I am in the same boat, my opponent is a HUGE eagles fan (apparently not enough to pickup Garcia) so I am very tempted to start him just to give him a heart attack.

funny how that plays into it. the guy i'm playing also wanted cutler in free agency a couple weeks back, i snagged him a pick prior, he was pissed. would be hilarious if i then used cutler to beat him in title game.

Or........ it may be even funnier if Cutler lays a goose egg for you, crushing your hopes of winning and allows your opponent to win by 1 point and take home the $$$ and title. Irony at its finest.

Exactly. Like I said earlier, if you can replace Vick with a better passer, then do it. However, Cutler is awful and one of the few QB's in the league that is less accurate than Vick.

guess you only watched Cutler's first game eh?Cutler's completion percentage and yards have gone up with every start.

By the way, Vick's completion percentage (accuracy) for the year is 52.8, and Cutler's is 58.5

 

[Big Score]

By the way, Vick's completion percentage (accuracy) for the year is 52.8, and Cutler's is 58.5

Completion percentage is just what it says it is, nothing more, nothing less. It is not a true measure of accuracy, as it does not take into account accurate passes that were subsequently dropped, accurate passes broken up by good defensive plays etc....

 

[W1cked]

Exactly. Like I said earlier, if you can replace Vick with a better passer, then do it. However, Cutler is awful and one of the few QB's in the league that is less accurate than Vick.

Cutler is like 64% the last six quarters. I'll take the Broncos recievers any day over the Falcons. Vicks hasn't exactly had great games against the Panthers in the past.Last 5 games against the Panthers 145 yard average passing, 49% passing... 5 Tds and 5 Ints in that span

 

[W1cked]

By the way, Vick's completion percentage (accuracy) for the year is 52.8, and Cutler's is 58.5

Completion percentage is just what it says it is, nothing more, nothing less. It is not a true measure of accuracy, as it does not take into account accurate passes that were subsequently dropped, accurate passes broken up by good defensive plays etc....

You maybe be right, but u have to factor in who he's throwing the ball to. I guy couple be wide open and if drops the pass, there is NO defense for that, I don't care how bad the other defense is playing.

 

[Big Score]

By the way, Vick's completion percentage (accuracy) for the year is 52.8, and Cutler's is 58.5

Completion percentage is just what it says it is, nothing more, nothing less. It is not a true measure of accuracy, as it does not take into account accurate passes that were subsequently dropped, accurate passes broken up by good defensive plays etc....

You maybe be right, but u have to factor in who he's throwing the ball to. I guy couple be wide open and if drops the pass, there is NO defense for that, I don't care how bad the other defense is playing.

Agreed.

 

[Traders2001]

Exactly. Like I said earlier, if you can replace Vick with a better passer, then do it. However, Cutler is awful and one of the few QB's in the league that is less accurate than Vick.

Cutler is like 64% the last six quarters. I'll take the Broncos recievers any day over the Falcons. Vicks hasn't exactly had great games against the Panthers in the past.Last 5 games against the Panthers 145 yard average passing, 49% passing... 5 Tds and 5 Ints in that span

It s easy to be 65% completion when you throw passes under 10 yds .

 

[W1cked]

Exactly. Like I said earlier, if you can replace Vick with a better passer, then do it. However, Cutler is awful and one of the few QB's in the league that is less accurate than Vick.

Cutler is like 64% the last six quarters. I'll take the Broncos recievers any day over the Falcons. Vicks hasn't exactly had great games against the Panthers in the past.Last 5 games against the Panthers 145 yard average passing, 49% passing... 5 Tds and 5 Ints in that span

It s easy to be 65% completion when you throw passes under 10 yds .

Really then why isn't Vick completing 65% of his passes. Cutler's yard per attempt is higher than Vicks. 7.22 to 6.45

 

[SteelerMurf]

Exactly. Like I said earlier, if you can replace Vick with a better passer, then do it. However, Cutler is awful and one of the few QB's in the league that is less accurate than Vick.

Cutler is like 64% the last six quarters. I'll take the Broncos recievers any day over the Falcons. Vicks hasn't exactly had great games against the Panthers in the past.Last 5 games against the Panthers 145 yard average passing, 49% passing... 5 Tds and 5 Ints in that span

It s easy to be 65% completion when you throw passes under 10 yds .

It is extremely obvious you haven't watched a Broncos game since his debut against the Seahawks. You again must have missed the beautiful bomb to Walker last week?????Vick has a bad completion percentage cause he throws a 5 yard flat pass just like he does a 50 yard bomb.Vick has no touch, that is as much of the problem at WRs dropping balls.Vick has started every game this season and has only thrown multiple TDs 5 times. Cutler has done it 3 times in only 3 starts.Vick is not a good passer, he is a running back.

 

[SteelerMurf]

Exactly. Like I said earlier, if you can replace Vick with a better passer, then do it. However, Cutler is awful and one of the few QB's in the league that is less accurate than Vick.

Cutler is like 64% the last six quarters. I'll take the Broncos recievers any day over the Falcons. Vicks hasn't exactly had great games against the Panthers in the past.Last 5 games against the Panthers 145 yard average passing, 49% passing... 5 Tds and 5 Ints in that span

It s easy to be 65% completion when you throw passes under 10 yds .

Really then why isn't Vick completing 65% of his passes. Cutler's yard per attempt is higher than Vicks. 7.22 to 6.45

This Vick ball washer has got to get better material.

 

[Big Score]

Exactly. Like I said earlier, if you can replace Vick with a better passer, then do it. However, Cutler is awful and one of the few QB's in the league that is less accurate than Vick.

Cutler is like 64% the last six quarters. I'll take the Broncos recievers any day over the Falcons. Vicks hasn't exactly had great games against the Panthers in the past.Last 5 games against the Panthers 145 yard average passing, 49% passing... 5 Tds and 5 Ints in that span

It s easy to be 65% completion when you throw passes under 10 yds .

It is extremely obvious you haven't watched a Broncos game since his debut against the Seahawks. You again must have missed the beautiful bomb to Walker last week?????Vick has a bad completion percentage cause he throws a 5 yard flat pass just like he does a 50 yard bomb.

Vick has no touch, that is as much of the problem at WRs dropping balls.

Vick has started every game this season and has only thrown multiple TDs 5 times. Cutler has done it 3 times in only 3 starts.

Vick is not a good passer, he is a running back.

From your post, it is equally obvious that YOU haven't been watching many Falcons games this year.

 

[SteelerMurf]

Exactly. Like I said earlier, if you can replace Vick with a better passer, then do it. However, Cutler is awful and one of the few QB's in the league that is less accurate than Vick.

Cutler is like 64% the last six quarters. I'll take the Broncos recievers any day over the Falcons. Vicks hasn't exactly had great games against the Panthers in the past.Last 5 games against the Panthers 145 yard average passing, 49% passing... 5 Tds and 5 Ints in that span

It s easy to be 65% completion when you throw passes under 10 yds .

It is extremely obvious you haven't watched a Broncos game since his debut against the Seahawks. You again must have missed the beautiful bomb to Walker last week?????Vick has a bad completion percentage cause he throws a 5 yard flat pass just like he does a 50 yard bomb.

Vick has no touch, that is as much of the problem at WRs dropping balls.

Vick has started every game this season and has only thrown multiple TDs 5 times. Cutler has done it 3 times in only 3 starts.

Vick is not a good passer, he is a running back.

From your post, it is equally obvious that YOU haven't been watching many Falcons games this year.

You and Mike Vick are officially the only 2 people in the world who think Mike Vick has any kind of touch on his passes. You my friend are a riot.

 

[Big Score]

Exactly. Like I said earlier, if you can replace Vick with a better passer, then do it. However, Cutler is awful and one of the few QB's in the league that is less accurate than Vick.

Cutler is like 64% the last six quarters. I'll take the Broncos recievers any day over the Falcons. Vicks hasn't exactly had great games against the Panthers in the past.Last 5 games against the Panthers 145 yard average passing, 49% passing... 5 Tds and 5 Ints in that span

It s easy to be 65% completion when you throw passes under 10 yds .

It is extremely obvious you haven't watched a Broncos game since his debut against the Seahawks. You again must have missed the beautiful bomb to Walker last week?????Vick has a bad completion percentage cause he throws a 5 yard flat pass just like he does a 50 yard bomb.

Vick has no touch, that is as much of the problem at WRs dropping balls.

Vick has started every game this season and has only thrown multiple TDs 5 times. Cutler has done it 3 times in only 3 starts.

Vick is not a good passer, he is a running back.

From your post, it is equally obvious that YOU haven't been watching many Falcons games this year.

You and Mike Vick are officially the only 2 people in the world who think Mike Vick has any kind of touch on his passes. You my friend are a riot.

Simply amazing how some people have such a difficult time of letting go of preconcieved notions. I guess a QB progressing, has never happened in the history of the NFL before. If you'd actually watched Vick & the Falcons this year, you'd know that Vick has indeed shown much improvement in his passing, including touch passes. But hey, far be it for me to tell you not to live in the past. I love having guys like you in my leagues. Like taking candy from a baby.

 

[W1cked]

I have Vick on my team in the championship game. (I had McNabb) so Vick has become my starter by default. I also have Dunn and Norwood, so I watched my fair share of Falcons games this year. Vick has had more touch of his passes than in previous years. With that saying, I still ma playing Cutler over him this week.

 

[Native]

Hey folks,

Any more info on Vicks groin? Is he full strength this week? Any new info?

 

[BlackHole]

I see some valid points being brought up in this pissing contest over Vick, however I think we should be more concerned with this week.

Vick has been a top FF QB all season. I however don't like him for this week. Unfortunately it is either Cutler or Young for me in his place (I did not play Green last night).

After listening to NFL N after the game last night, they were talking about Vick having a poor history against Carolina to begin with. Then they started comparing his situation with Fred Taylors last week. Coming back from tweaking a hammy for Fred and coming back the next week from a tweaked groin (and not in the good way) against a stout defense for Vick. I believe both of them said they don't expect Vick to make it through the game, let alone play well. Coming from to recent NFL studs, this concerns me greatly.

With all this being said, I also truely believe in sticking with the horses that got you to the playoffs/championship and I am having a real difficult time benching Vick for Cutler or Young, so any updates on his status this morning would be appreciated.