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If you mean in the game, it was a Tampa/Carolina game, so there's always the possibility of something happening, although there didn't seem to be much chippiness up until that point.Muhsin Muhammad did have his bell rung earlier in the game, but hard to say if this was related or not.Couch Potato said:Was there even a history of jawing or trash talk? Not to mean that it could even be halfway justified ... just trying to see if that blatant hit came totally out of nowhere or not.
Yeah, the Tampa/Carolina games are always heated between the two teams. There is usually some pushing and shoving between the two, but nothing like that Wesley hit. Wesley says it was a mistimed hit, and he wasn't trying to hurt him, and that the guy had faked fair catched before so he believed he did it again. Fake fair catching or not, you have to let the guy at least catch the ball (isn't there a halo rule) and the ball hadn't even gotten to the guy before he was floored by Wesley. Maybe it was an accident (Wesley has no history of cheap shots), but it didn't look that way, and as a Panther fan it disgusted me to see a Panther player do a hit like that accident or not.If you mean in the game, it was a Tampa/Carolina game, so there's always the possibility of something happening, although there didn't seem to be much chippiness up until that point.Muhsin Muhammad did have his bell rung earlier in the game, but hard to say if this was related or not.Couch Potato said:Was there even a history of jawing or trash talk? Not to mean that it could even be halfway justified ... just trying to see if that blatant hit came totally out of nowhere or not.
This.Exactly this.
I do not believe there is a halo rule in the NFL although the return man can't be hit until he touches the ball. That hit was ridiculously dirty and it wouldn't surprise me if he gets a multi-game suspension on top of his forthcoming fine.I must agree with the announcers though, the refs did a pretty darn good job keeping things in control.Yeah, the Tampa/Carolina games are always heated between the two teams. There is usually some pushing and shoving between the two, but nothing like that Wesley hit. Wesley says it was a mistimed hit, and he wasn't trying to hurt him, and that the guy had faked fair catched before so he believed he did it again. Fake fair catching or not, you have to let the guy at least catch the ball (isn't there a halo rule) and the ball hadn't even gotten to the guy before he was floored by Wesley. Maybe it was an accident (Wesley has no history of cheap shots), but it didn't look that way, and as a Panther fan it disgusted me to see a Panther player do a hit like that accident or not.If you mean in the game, it was a Tampa/Carolina game, so there's always the possibility of something happening, although there didn't seem to be much chippiness up until that point.Muhsin Muhammad did have his bell rung earlier in the game, but hard to say if this was related or not.Couch Potato said:Was there even a history of jawing or trash talk? Not to mean that it could even be halfway justified ... just trying to see if that blatant hit came totally out of nowhere or not.
I have to respectfully disagree with the bolded part. A player who is completely defenseless is at greater risk than any player on the field. A punt returner has no idea that someone is going to drill them into the ground BEFORE the reception is made. A late hit can sometimes be anticipated and braced for. This is the kind of hit that ends careers. That being said, both types of plays show a complete lack of discipline.
if there's fake fair catching, there should be a penalty for that. 15 yards for unsportsmanlike conduct.Not that it excuses Wesley's hit. But if there's competitiveness out there and someone's trying to fake-fair catch to take advantage, then defenses will game plan for that and that could include hits.A penalty for fake fair catching takes this out of the equation. That's for the player's safety.Yeah, the Tampa/Carolina games are always heated between the two teams. There is usually some pushing and shoving between the two, but nothing like that Wesley hit. Wesley says it was a mistimed hit, and he wasn't trying to hurt him, and that the guy had faked fair catched before so he believed he did it again. Fake fair catching or not, you have to let the guy at least catch the ball (isn't there a halo rule) and the ball hadn't even gotten to the guy before he was floored by Wesley. Maybe it was an accident (Wesley has no history of cheap shots), but it didn't look that way, and as a Panther fan it disgusted me to see a Panther player do a hit like that accident or not.If you mean in the game, it was a Tampa/Carolina game, so there's always the possibility of something happening, although there didn't seem to be much chippiness up until that point.Muhsin Muhammad did have his bell rung earlier in the game, but hard to say if this was related or not.Couch Potato said:Was there even a history of jawing or trash talk? Not to mean that it could even be halfway justified ... just trying to see if that blatant hit came totally out of nowhere or not.
I was going to post the same thing, but after looking again, that hit was just way too early. The receivers arms were still at his sides when the hit was made.
Without looking it up, I do remember watching several games in the where the announcers said the defenders had to give the returnman enough room to catch the ball. Even saw a few times where the defender got flagged for getting too close and interrupting the returners chance of fielding the kick.And I totally agree about the refs.
I played on special teams in high school. You've got to make sure not to hit the player before the ball gets there.I still remember one game where I was running down field and the returner signaled for a fair catch so I started slowing down. Then one of my teammates passed me and tackled the guy. I was like, "What are you thinking?" Got flagged, of course.It wasn't vicious or going for the head like Wesley, though. Just a straight forward, wrap the midsection, tackle.
Zero chance you're right about that one. Zero. I dunno about suspension, but a fine is a certainty.
Did he call McNabb average?
I agree with this. Wesley has played on special teams for the Panthers for years, and he has never tried to cheap shot anyone. I believe him when he said he mistimed the hit. I also believe he should be fined for the hit. Even if it was probably a mistake, it was a dangerous mistake.
If knowledge of the rules of the game are rated highly he may have an argument.
You are more than likely right. Although, I wouldnt be shocked if the only fine was the yellow flag.
Not sure if you read the thread but Phil mentioned premeditation on post #11. I personally would like to think not but you never know.
Chaos got this call right. Doesn't matter so much that he did not lead with his helmet, it matters that he chose to blast a defenseless guy's head. If his goal was a big hit causing a fumble then he should aim for the midsection where the ball will likely be.Definite fine and likely suspension is my take.
I'm leaning towards agreeing with this. Watch that youtube a frame at a time from about 1:14 to 1:20. He gathers himself and even swings his right arm above his head to lineup his feet for the launch directly and very deliberately into the Smith's head. Just pause it at 1:17. His feet are off the ground, his body is a projectile not into the returners midsection, but right into his head. There is no excuse worth considering here. The way he launches himself 'high' absolutely suggests premeditation, imo. How long did he premeditate the hit? Who knows. Could have been on the sidelines before the snap, could have been a half second before he launched, but he did decide to take out Smith before he did it. That was no accident.
It doesn't look to me like he was blasted in the head.
I hate to quote myself but I really think that this is a player trying to keep his roster spot in the NFL. Anyone who frequents this site has probably seen the video of Terrell Davis on special teams during his rookie year. Of course, it was a clean hit. I would think that most players would have some unofficial code of honor when it comes to hurting each other.
I don't think it was just a timing issue. He also left his feet to go high. He made sure to lead with the shoulder, but he still launched himself right at the returner's chin or just below. I think he'll be gone for a couple of games.
Check out the frames from 1:16-1:17 (just before impact). You can definitely see the shadow of the ball on the 20 yard line markings...
He will be fined AT LEAST $25,000. Roger will not stand for this.
He didn't signal fair catch.I just don't understand any defense of this hit. The guy leaves his feet, lauching himself at a defenseless player who has called for a fair catch. That's really the key here...you can't touch a guy who calls for a fair catch so where does a "miss-timed" hit even enter the picture. I thought there was a penalty for a "fake" fair catch, but not sure. Bottom line is even if he thought the guy was "faking" (which I think is just some BS excuse), let the refs handle that, it's not a judgement for you to make. I hope they both fine and suspend this guy...disgusting.
Was there even a history of jawing or trash talk? Not to mean that it could even be halfway justified ... just trying to see if that blatant hit came totally out of nowhere or not.
