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Vikings run defense exposed? (1 Viewer)
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az_prof
Footballguy
I thought that they played great. How can you blame this loss on the defense? They didn't let the Jets score a TD for most of the game, eventhough the Vikings offense kept giving them the ball and great field goal position. Great play by the Vikings D.
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Harrassment Panda
Footballguy
Pat is old and obviously out of shape. Kevin has always been more of a pass rusher. I think their DE's compound the problem by overplaying the pass.
Harrassment Panda
Footballguy
They gave up 160 yards rushing......that is like the opposite of great.
beef
Footballguy
155 yards and a td is great run d?
az_prof
Footballguy
This is why real football fans make fun of fantasy guys. You can't just look at a box score. Did you watch the game? Did you see how they were continually put in difficult positions. Five times in the red zone and they held the Jets out. Tomlinson isn't chopped liver either.
Harrassment Panda
Footballguy
Oh, whatever, Mr. "Real Football Fan". They gave up 160 yards and 5 yards per carry and the Jets killed them on time of possession. In what universe do you live in where that could possibly be considered a "great" performance?
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az_prof
Footballguy
The universe where all offenses don't start at the same place on the field and where each team doesn't get the same number of possessions. The universe where what really counts isn't how many yards you give up but how many Tds. The real world universe I guess.
Harrassment Panda
Footballguy
Believe whatever makes you feel better, I guess. I'll just be here basking in your great wisdom, oh Mr. "Real Football Fan".
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Chase Stuart
Footballguy
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Chaka
Footballguy
Their scoring defense was good, but for Greene's 20+ yard rushing TD.Their rushing defense was not good.That applies in every universe.
CalBear
Footballguy
I saw how they let Tomlinson run for 16 yards up the middle on third and 15 on the 9 yard line. Here's some of the run defense:1-10-MIN40 (8:27) L.Tomlinson left tackle to MIN 28 for 12 yards (H.Abdullah).2-10-MIN28 (7:40) L.Tomlinson left guard to MIN 11 for 17 yards (C.Griffin; M.Williams).3-15-NYJ9 (1:47) L.Tomlinson up the middle to NYJ 25 for 16 yards (H.Abdullah).1-10-NYJ27 (10:55) L.Tomlinson left tackle to NYJ 44 for 17 yards (C.Greenway, H.Abdullah). PENALTY on NYJ-T.Richardson, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at NYJ 30.1-10-MIN39 (4:45) L.Tomlinson left tackle to MIN 23 for 16 yards (M.Williams). FUMBLES (M.Williams), ball out of bounds at MIN 23.1-10-MIN23 (4:37) S.Greene right guard for 23 yards, TOUCHDOWN.Six runs of 10+ yards, including two in a row on the drive which more or less sealed the game. The Vikings run defense was not good.
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He may have been kind of an ### about it, but he has a point.
Minnesotas first 9 possessions.
START QTR POSS. YARD PLAYS YARDS RESULT
15:00 1 03:04 MIN 40 3 5 Punt
10:15 1 01:38 MIN 11 3 -1 Punt
04:55 1 01:35 MIN 31 4 21 Punt
12:35 2 01:29 MIN 6 3 6 Punt
09:29 2 01:19 MIN 27 3 3 Punt
05:29 2 01:29 MIN 25 4 18 Fumble
00:17 2 00:17 MIN 42 1 -1 End of Half
12:58 3 00:00 NYJ 49 1 0 Fumble Recovery (Opponent)
08:49 3 01:31 MIN 18 3 7 Punt
The viking's run D definitely isn't what it used to be, but I'm quite sure exactly how much more exposed it is after that game.
They werent very good against Miami either. They did manage to hold Best relatively in check for about a quarter and then shut down Maurice Morris so you've got to give them props for that
Minnesotas first 9 possessions.
START QTR POSS. YARD PLAYS YARDS RESULT
15:00 1 03:04 MIN 40 3 5 Punt
10:15 1 01:38 MIN 11 3 -1 Punt
04:55 1 01:35 MIN 31 4 21 Punt
12:35 2 01:29 MIN 6 3 6 Punt
09:29 2 01:19 MIN 27 3 3 Punt
05:29 2 01:29 MIN 25 4 18 Fumble
00:17 2 00:17 MIN 42 1 -1 End of Half
12:58 3 00:00 NYJ 49 1 0 Fumble Recovery (Opponent)
08:49 3 01:31 MIN 18 3 7 Punt
The viking's run D definitely isn't what it used to be, but I'm quite sure exactly how much more exposed it is after that game.
They werent very good against Miami either. They did manage to hold Best relatively in check for about a quarter and then shut down Maurice Morris so you've got to give them props for that
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Harrassment Panda
Footballguy
If it had been anywhere close to a "great" performance, he wouldn't even need to make excuses for them. But it wasn't a "great" performance. Hell, it wasn't even average.They are clearly vulnerable to the cutback run. Their defensive ends aren't positionally sound, especially Jared Allen who doesn't look like he's even considering the possiblity of a run play. Kevin Williams is an awesome player but he's always been a pass rusher first.And Pat Williams looks like he's on his last legs. Honestly, I think this is their main problem. He's been a great run defender for years, but he's old and out of shape now. The guy spent half the game in a flop sweat and sucking air like a beached whale.
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Donnybrook
Footballguy
Jets are #1 in the league in rushing averaging 165 yards per game. The Vikings offense was inept and hardly on the field in the first half. Believe what you want to believe but the Vikings offense did not do the defense any favors in this game.
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Voice Of Reason
Footballguy
There is probably something too this,
After week 1, I thought the Saints tackle, Nicks and Evans, going to blow every DT in the league 5 yards back after what they did vs the Williams boys. 4 weeks later and they the Saints tackles haven't looked nearly as good any other team.
After week 1, I thought the Saints tackle, Nicks and Evans, going to blow every DT in the league 5 yards back after what they did vs the Williams boys. 4 weeks later and they the Saints tackles haven't looked nearly as good any other team.
Harrassment Panda
Footballguy
I believe it. Doesn't meant the defense played well.On the Jets' second possession, the Vikings gave up 3 long runs of 10+ yards. IIRC one of them was closer to 20 yards. They were just getting killed up front. You can't explain that away as being the offense's fault, the game was just barely getting started. The defense hadn't been on the field enough at that point to use the "tired" excuse.
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Donnybrook
Footballguy
Jets are good is the excuse. Some great cut backs by LT on those runs.
Chicago Hooligan
Footballguy
I dunno I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that this is the best team in the NFC.
He was talking about the overall defensive effort, not the run D. Out of place in this thread, sure...but not at all surprising giving the timing of the post. You certainly have to give them some credit for holding the score 12-0. But regardless of that discussion, the other point I wanted to make which is mostly in agreement with your premise is that the Vikings run D hasnt lived up to reputation all year.
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Donnybrook
Footballguy
Don't believe everthing you read. I still recall that many posters rated Chicago #1 in NFC North in 2009.
Harrassment Panda
Footballguy
Jets are good, and I'm not trying to pile on, just answering the earlier assertion that the Vikings run defense was "great" when it was actually not even close to that.
Donnybrook
Footballguy
Jets averaged 5.5 yards per carry against the Ravens in week 1 and only 4.8 ypc against the Vikings. The big difference was in the amount of oppertunities the Jets got to run the ball. The Jets ran it 32 times against the Vikings and that was helped by the fact that the Vikings offense could not stay on the field. The defense might not be great but I would still put them in the good catagory.
DoubleG
Footballguy
Before or after Urlacher was out for the season
scott72
Footballguy
Using the excuse the run D has been feasting on poor running teams is something I can live with. It's pretty clear the Vikings can't handle a team with a stout OL. By the way, what has happened to Allen this year? Last year he would be mentioned all throughout the game for blowing up backfields and getting to the QB, now you can see on replays that he's consistently getting beat one on one. Is there some sort of injury he's battling?
scott72
Footballguy
Looks like they believe that this year too..
Clifford
Footballguy
I don't think they have played that well this season but I'm with az on this one. They were continually put in tough positions and most of the time they got gashed it was on outside runs.
Ksquared
Footballguy
All I know is starting late last season, I quit worrying about starting one of my stud RB against Minn. For several years before that their run defense was "great" and unless it was someone like LT in his hayday, I would look for other options to start.
Just not the case anymore. The defense did a bend don't break imitation last night for most of the night (no thanks to the offense for putting them in bad positions) until the on TD drive they gave up. When they really needed get a stop and gave up a long drive on big play after big play. Especially the last two plays - LT for about 17 and followed by Greene for a 25 yd TD. No way would I call the Minn Def great (either last night or so far this year), but understand they are still good to very good.
Just not the case anymore. The defense did a bend don't break imitation last night for most of the night (no thanks to the offense for putting them in bad positions) until the on TD drive they gave up. When they really needed get a stop and gave up a long drive on big play after big play. Especially the last two plays - LT for about 17 and followed by Greene for a 25 yd TD. No way would I call the Minn Def great (either last night or so far this year), but understand they are still good to very good.
Well put. They weren't great, but they certainly are the only reason the Vikings had a chance to win that game late. The Vikings D kept them in it by limiting Jets to field goals when the Offense and Special Teams were putting them on a short field. Jets deserve some credit for good play calling and LT for some good running. Someone mentioned it earlier, but the cut back plays exposed a hole in the defense at times.
DoubleG
Footballguy
I agree with this as well. Currently Minnesota is 14th in the league in run defense according to yards allowed/game - kind of middle of the pack. However there is at least 1, maybe 2 teams ahead of them that register what I call a "false positive" for good run D. Generally, teams that score a lot of points seem to have a better run defense, because they simply don't get run on as often. Even though their YPC defense is weaker, their total rushing yards per game look nicer, as teams are trying to play catch-up, and generally this is done through the air. The inverse is true for teams that don't score that much or are just not that good. That is, opposing teams build an early lead, so they run more to milk the clock. The Carolina Panthers are an example of this - they allow only 3.8 ypc - that's 8th in the NFL, just .3 ypc behind the Giants and Bears and just .5 ypc behind the Jets. However, the Panthers are 27th in the league in rushing yards against becuase they are run on 35.6 times per game - that's 2nd highest (behind the Bills, who are REALLY bad).I think Minny is actually about where they should be (i.e. middle of the road) in terms of ranking. They have been in many close games, as such teams have run on them a decent amount, but not a ton. They've allowed a decent, but unspectacular 4 yards per carry - 11th in the NFL. So they are a very good, but not great run defense...at least through 5 games, if you just look at those stats.If you look at who they played (the Jets, Lions, Saints and Dolphins) you might notice someting that would cause you to downgrade the Vikings run d a little. That is, apart from the Jets, the YPC averages of the offenses they played are 18th, 27th and 30th in the league. The point? Minnesota has been unable to strongly shut down even the weaker running teams. As such, I would drop them from "very good to great" down to "good to very good" - and once they face some better running teams, we should have stronger indication as to whether or not they are closer to "very good" or just "average".
