Jene Bramel
Footballguy
I know this started to get some discussion in the Vilma-Harris thread, but it's going to be one of the hotter topics of discussion this offseason. Worth it's own thread for sure.
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Vilma to the Saints (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Jene Bramel
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pretender
Footballguy
There were so many rumors about where he might end up and even as of yesterday I read that the Saints had considerably cooled off their interest. Saints Cool on VilmaThe New York Daily News reports the Saints, one of the early teams connected with Jets LB Jonathan Vilma, don't appear to be as hot for him as once thought. They have done some homework on Vilma, but from talking to people, the impression is their interest has cooled.Now he is going to be a Saint. Has anybody heard anything about how he's recovering from his injury? I would think he would have had to pass some sort of physical before someone would go after him. I am assuming that in the 4-3 of the Saints that he will be the MLB and has the possiblity of being a real monster? In his best day's as a Jet was he mostly a tackling machine or did he have some big plays as well? Where do you see him - if he is healthy as far as in ranking - possibly top 10 or 5?? Inquiring minds want to knowI know this started to get some discussion in the Vilma-Harris thread, but it's going to be one of the hotter topics of discussion this offseason. Worth it's own thread for sure.
Jene Bramel
Footballguy
My initial thoughts:1. Vilma is a good fit for the Saints scheme. Gibbs likes speed and Vilma should be allowed to move sideline-to-sideline. Not much competition for tackles in New Orleans, so Vilma easily has 92-97 solo potential with some additional upside and a little big play capability within the scheme. About as good as could have been hoped.2. I'm reluctant to throw Vilma into the elite tier again without knowing more about the injury. Removal of bone fragments, rumors of degenerative conditions, not being cleared to run yet -- sounds suspiciously like microfracture issues to me, which isn't as big a deal as it once was, but still a concern in a guy who relies on speed and range to make plays.3. The Saints finally have a MLB again. Hasn't been since Winifred Tubbs that there was any kind of MLB talent in New Orleans.There were so many rumors about where he might end up and even as of yesterday I read that the Saints had considerably cooled off their interest. Saints Cool on VilmaThe New York Daily News reports the Saints, one of the early teams connected with Jets LB Jonathan Vilma, don't appear to be as hot for him as once thought. They have done some homework on Vilma, but from talking to people, the impression is their interest has cooled.Now he is going to be a Saint. Has anybody heard anything about how he's recovering from his injury? I would think he would have had to pass some sort of physical before someone would go after him. I am assuming that in the 4-3 of the Saints that he will be the MLB and has the possiblity of being a real monster? In his best day's as a Jet was he mostly a tackling machine or did he have some big plays as well? Where do you see him - if he is healthy as far as in ranking - possibly top 10 or 5?? Inquiring minds want to knowI know this started to get some discussion in the Vilma-Harris thread, but it's going to be one of the hotter topics of discussion this offseason. Worth it's own thread for sure.
pretender
Footballguy
My initial thoughts:1. Vilma is a good fit for the Saints scheme. Gibbs likes speed and Vilma should be allowed to move sideline-to-sideline. Not much competition for tackles in New Orleans, so Vilma easily has 92-97 solo potential with some additional upside and a little big play capability within the scheme. About as good as could have been hoped.2. I'm reluctant to throw Vilma into the elite tier again without knowing more about the injury. Removal of bone fragments, rumors of degenerative conditions, not being cleared to run yet -- sounds suspiciously like microfracture issues to me, which isn't as big a deal as it once was, but still a concern in a guy who relies on speed and range to make plays.3. The Saints finally have a MLB again. Hasn't been since Winifred Tubbs that there was any kind of MLB talent in New Orleans.There were so many rumors about where he might end up and even as of yesterday I read that the Saints had considerably cooled off their interest. Saints Cool on VilmaThe New York Daily News reports the Saints, one of the early teams connected with Jets LB Jonathan Vilma, don't appear to be as hot for him as once thought. They have done some homework on Vilma, but from talking to people, the impression is their interest has cooled.Now he is going to be a Saint. Has anybody heard anything about how he's recovering from his injury? I would think he would have had to pass some sort of physical before someone would go after him. I am assuming that in the 4-3 of the Saints that he will be the MLB and has the possiblity of being a real monster? In his best day's as a Jet was he mostly a tackling machine or did he have some big plays as well? Where do you see him - if he is healthy as far as in ranking - possibly top 10 or 5?? Inquiring minds want to knowI know this started to get some discussion in the Vilma-Harris thread, but it's going to be one of the hotter topics of discussion this offseason. Worth it's own thread for sure.
Thanks Jene!NYCGangGreen
Footballguy
Great thoughts Jene. It's a double edged sword for me. Love Vilma, but hated to see him so ineffective in the 3-4. Hope he has a great career in N.O. especially next year since it will help the Jets get a decent draft pick in return.My initial thoughts:1. Vilma is a good fit for the Saints scheme. Gibbs likes speed and Vilma should be allowed to move sideline-to-sideline. Not much competition for tackles in New Orleans, so Vilma easily has 92-97 solo potential with some additional upside and a little big play capability within the scheme. About as good as could have been hoped.2. I'm reluctant to throw Vilma into the elite tier again without knowing more about the injury. Removal of bone fragments, rumors of degenerative conditions, not being cleared to run yet -- sounds suspiciously like microfracture issues to me, which isn't as big a deal as it once was, but still a concern in a guy who relies on speed and range to make plays.3. The Saints finally have a MLB again. Hasn't been since Winifred Tubbs that there was any kind of MLB talent in New Orleans.There were so many rumors about where he might end up and even as of yesterday I read that the Saints had considerably cooled off their interest. Saints Cool on VilmaThe New York Daily News reports the Saints, one of the early teams connected with Jets LB Jonathan Vilma, don't appear to be as hot for him as once thought. They have done some homework on Vilma, but from talking to people, the impression is their interest has cooled.Now he is going to be a Saint. Has anybody heard anything about how he's recovering from his injury? I would think he would have had to pass some sort of physical before someone would go after him. I am assuming that in the 4-3 of the Saints that he will be the MLB and has the possiblity of being a real monster? In his best day's as a Jet was he mostly a tackling machine or did he have some big plays as well? Where do you see him - if he is healthy as far as in ranking - possibly top 10 or 5?? Inquiring minds want to knowI know this started to get some discussion in the Vilma-Harris thread, but it's going to be one of the hotter topics of discussion this offseason. Worth it's own thread for sure.
Thanks Jene!
Reaper
Footballguy
FYI.. I must have heard Vilma 5 times on different radio shows this week...
The injured knee was his right one...
And according to him he's running, feels great and wants to participate in the early mini-camps but, they might hold him back...
Sounds good on injury front - I wish him the best.
The injured knee was his right one...
And according to him he's running, feels great and wants to participate in the early mini-camps but, they might hold him back...
Sounds good on injury front - I wish him the best.
JOBOOZOSO
Footballguy
I heard him on WFAN today. I wish the hosts asked him which play he busted his knee on. It was a classy interview; he took no cheap shots at Mangini.I do think it will take awhile for him to flow sideline to sideline. He said he was only lightly jogging to this point.
How does his arrival impact Roman Harper in the defensive backfield? Surely it lowers his prognosis this year with the talent roaming "sideline to sideline" @ MLB
Jene Bramel
Footballguy
Not necessarily.2005 Jets
Vilma 128 solos
Rhodes 86 solos
Coleman 84 solos
Chris Harris had 76 tackles behind Jon Beason last year.
Bernard Pollard 74 solos behind three linebackers with 80 solos each.
Michael Lewis 74 solos behind Patrick Willis.
The raw tackle opportunity for the Jets in 2005 was about 1.5 SD outside the historical average, though, so you're right that there may be some impact. Just wanted to point out that Harper shouldn't be dropped a significant amount -- for me, probably same tier with slightly higher risk.
Tenacious D
Footballguy
Interesting news about Vilma relative to the Shockey trade
http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/07/22/...er-for-shockey/
"The Giants would get the Saints' 2009 first-round draft pick if LB Jonathan Vilma plays in 85 percent of snaps this season and then goes on to sign an extension with the Saints. Under that scenario, the Jets would upgrade to the Saints second-round pick which would in turn bump the Giants up to the first-rounder. The Saints fifth-rounder would fall out of the Giants deal if that happens."
I looked around for some stats and with the scarce info I found, it appears your top stud LBs are at 95% or better. Something to think about in projecting him. Of course, they may have already decided he's a one-year rental regardless of how he plays, since the contigency is resigning him. In that case they won't even care about burning him out. On the other hand, if they end up out of playoff contention, they would seem to be highly-motivated to rest him, if he's playing well. So this information probably won't have value until the season is underway. What's also interesting is if the Saint FO screwed up here or knew and didn't care, they are doing whatever they have to for this year.
In looking around for data, I found this article with some great charts from last year.
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/7961194
This would be a very beneficial stat to track in-season (juxtaposed next to some injury information to give it perspective).
http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/07/22/...er-for-shockey/
"The Giants would get the Saints' 2009 first-round draft pick if LB Jonathan Vilma plays in 85 percent of snaps this season and then goes on to sign an extension with the Saints. Under that scenario, the Jets would upgrade to the Saints second-round pick which would in turn bump the Giants up to the first-rounder. The Saints fifth-rounder would fall out of the Giants deal if that happens."
I looked around for some stats and with the scarce info I found, it appears your top stud LBs are at 95% or better. Something to think about in projecting him. Of course, they may have already decided he's a one-year rental regardless of how he plays, since the contigency is resigning him. In that case they won't even care about burning him out. On the other hand, if they end up out of playoff contention, they would seem to be highly-motivated to rest him, if he's playing well. So this information probably won't have value until the season is underway. What's also interesting is if the Saint FO screwed up here or knew and didn't care, they are doing whatever they have to for this year.
In looking around for data, I found this article with some great charts from last year.
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/7961194
This would be a very beneficial stat to track in-season (juxtaposed next to some injury information to give it perspective).
Jene Bramel
Footballguy
Agreed. Access to that kind of data is limited at best, however, and it's not clear how that writer got it. I poked around without success after someone posted the link in April. It's slowly trickling out, however, so there's some hope.I've got a pipe dream of putting together a defensive game charting project, but it's probably impossible to do correctly without a bunch of dedicated folks and access to something other than the TV angles.
ATC1
Footballguy
Very intresting indeed. How many games would he have to sit out to get to 85%?I don't think they would put him on the PUP, but they may opt to not play him in games with little importance throughout the season.
Saints have not had a solid MLB in a long time. If he is able to play 85% of the snapps, I'll assume he is healthy and they will be looking to sign him since they won't have many draft picks next year.
Lash
Footballguy
60 snaps a game x 16 = 960 ... let's say 1000 to be safe
so 1000 snaps in a year, need to rest him 151 snaps to be able to keep their first rd pick
can rest him on:
dime packages = 30 snaps
nickel prevent at end of game/half = 20 snaps
take him completely out on all downs of lopsided games (up or down 20 in second half) = 30 snaps
take him out of meaningless series (down 9+ with under 2min left, opponent kneeling down, special teams, etc) = 20 snaps
= 100 snaps
then hope beyond hope one of these two occur:
1) week 17 is meaningless for playoff seeding = 60 snaps
or
2) he rests a game with a nagging injury against a vastly inferior opponent (play SF, ATL, OAK all at home) = 60 snaps
=160 snaps
so 1000 snaps in a year, need to rest him 151 snaps to be able to keep their first rd pick
can rest him on:
dime packages = 30 snaps
nickel prevent at end of game/half = 20 snaps
take him completely out on all downs of lopsided games (up or down 20 in second half) = 30 snaps
take him out of meaningless series (down 9+ with under 2min left, opponent kneeling down, special teams, etc) = 20 snaps
= 100 snaps
then hope beyond hope one of these two occur:
1) week 17 is meaningless for playoff seeding = 60 snaps
or
2) he rests a game with a nagging injury against a vastly inferior opponent (play SF, ATL, OAK all at home) = 60 snaps
=160 snaps
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Al Toon's Mole
Footballguy
Any word on if he will be the guy with the headset helmet?
He was a true Defensive General with the Jets, and in N.O. see's him as the same, I'd think he'd be the guy to use as the communication leader with the coaches.
If so, I'd say the Jets get the 2nd and the G-Men get the 1st.
And Saint's homers or anyone else hear who they assigned it to yet?
He was a true Defensive General with the Jets, and in N.O. see's him as the same, I'd think he'd be the guy to use as the communication leader with the coaches.
If so, I'd say the Jets get the 2nd and the G-Men get the 1st.
And Saint's homers or anyone else hear who they assigned it to yet?
