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Vince Young Article (1 Viewer)

Bob Magaw

Footballguy
some nice testimonials from some league sources i hadn't head before, like scott linehan & skeletor... they specifically addressed passing skills question by noting marked improvement during 2005 season... linehan suggested he would take VY over bush with the #1 overall pick (i wouldn't, but i would take him at #3 after leinert & ahead of cutler, super mario & hawk)...

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/dr...ate-young_x.htm

Young's talents, perceived shortcomings fuel great draft debate

By Jim Corbett, USA TODAY

INDIANAPOLIS — There is no more qualified Vince Young expert than the former Texas quarterback's longtime mentor and father figure, Steve McNair. McNair proudly touts Young's talent, which he discovered at his youth football camp in Mississippi a decade ago.

McNair was wowed by an immensely poised and gifted high school sophomore from Houston who heaved 70-yard passes with ease and had the camp's founder wondering exactly how old Young was.

"From start to finish, Vince has always been a man amongst boys," McNair says. "Even back then Vince played to another level and stood out from other players."

McNair's Alcorn State roommate and close friend, Ivory Young, talked up his nephew to McNair, who invited Young the younger to attend his camp. Now 22, Young is considered one of the top six prospects in the NFL Draft along with Southern California running back Reggie Bush and his Trojans teammate, quarterback Matt Leinart.

McNair takes pride in Young's beyond-his-years-maturity, having filled a void in Young's life. The quarterback's father, Vince Young Sr., has spent most of the last 10 years in prison for burglary and other crimes.

"I'd hate to be playing against him in 2008 when he gets a feel for the NFL game," McNair says. "He's the next generation at quarterback. You have your Michael Vick. You had your Steve McNair. You had your Warren Moons and Randall Cunninghams. Now you've got a Vince Young, who's separated himself tremendously."

There's a chance Young could emerge as the No. 1 overall selection depending on how well he answers questions about his funky throwing motion and perceived shortcomings on the NFL's Wonderlic test at his March 22 pro day.

"Vince Young is in the mix for the first pick," Houston Texans general manager Charley Casserly says. "He's a special talent. He's a heck of an athlete, and he has the arm strength to make all the NFL throws.

"He has tremendous upside. He has unique running ability, and when he scrambles, he has ability to refocus and find a guy downfield. He does that as well as anybody I've ever seen. He'll have to adjust from playing in the shotgun. It'll be a learning curve."

So how fast can Young reach that upside? That's the $26 million question, considering the guaranteed signing bonus this year's first overall pick probably will receive.

When it comes to that learning curve, the Tennessee Titans would be an ideal spot for Young at No. 3 overall with McNair, 32, indicating he'd like to play only a couple of more years.

Bridging the gap between an 11-year veteran and Young would be a dream handoff for McNair should Young fall to the Titans and Bush and Leinart go first and second to the Texans and New Orleans Saints.

"One of the options I gave the Titans in my contract talks was I wouldn't mind bringing Vince in and tutoring him for a couple of years and letting him take over for me after that. I think I've got a couple more years in me. If I could mentor a protégé of mine until then, that would be the thing to do," McNair says.

McNair was in the Rose Bowl stands Jan. 4 when Young led the Longhorns to a 41-38 overtime victory against Southern California to deliver Texas its first national championship in 36 years.

"I can remember Steve telling me about Vince Young when Vince was a sophomore in high school, saying, 'Wait until you see this guy!' " Titans general manager Floyd Reese says. "He's special."

It would be special for Young to follow in the footsteps of McNair, the third overall pick in 1995 who sat and learned two seasons behind Chris Chandler.

"Knowing how long we've been together, how many different things he has taught me to become the man that I am and how to better myself on the football field and understanding the leadership of a quarterback ... if I get drafted by Tennessee, that would be a blessing," Young says. "Steve and I are real similar, so that would be real good."

Bush appears close to a lock to hold up a No. 1 Texans' jersey alongside Commissioner Paul Tagliabue on April 29. Part of the reason is because Bush would take pressure off quarterback David Carr, who received an $8 million option, extending his contract for three more seasons. But are the Texans really sold on Carr, or did the extension just buy time for another quarterback — such as Young — to develop behind him? Or did the extension make Carr more tradable to another quarterback-needy team? Only time will tell.

The debate about whom to select between Young and Bush is compounded in that Young does not fit the conventional concept of a dropback quarterback. He played entirely in the shotgun, and his unorthodox delivery makes him hard for some old-school talent evaluators to grasp.

"I don't have that dilemma of having to decide who to take with the No. 1 pick. But if I was sitting there with the first pick, it would be hard to pass up a guy who can affect the game in so many ways the way Vince Young can," says new St. Louis Rams head coach Scott Linehan, who developed Daunte Culpepper into an MVP-caliber quarterback in 2004 as offensive coordinator with the Minnesota Vikings.

"As good as Reggie Bush is, (Young) does a lot of things that make him special."

The bottom line? No one will be more scrutinized under the predraft microscope than Young, this year's wild card.

The best personnel men have the vision to see a prospect's future. Young will test that vision because he has every chance to be a great pro supported in the right system and tutored by the right quarterback guru.

Perhaps new Texans head coach Gary Kubiak is that guru. He's a former backup to John Elway, and he successfully rewired Pro Bowl quarterback Jake Plummer as the Denver Broncos offensive coordinator. He must be asking himself: After raising Plummer's game last season, what can be done with Young?

"Vince Young in that offense Gary Kubiak runs would be unreal," says Tampa Bay Buccaneers quarterback Chris Simms, Young's former Longhorns teammate. "It's like having Jake Plummer, only three-tenths of a second faster in the 40, who is 6-5 and can do some unbelievable things with his feet and his arm. He throws the deep ball better than people think.

"Personally, I think the Texans would love to have Vince Young with the first overall pick. The only thing is in the NFL there's the salary cap to consider (with Carr)."

There's also Young's greatest intangible that can't be measured at any combine: Young might lead this draft class in intuitive upside. He was 30-2 during his career at Texas.

"This is a playmaker's league," Linehan says. "If you start with the No. 1 criteria, scoring points and affecting the game, there isn't a guy at that position who can affect a game more than Vince Young can.

"You go back with Vick, Daunte Culpepper, Randall Cunningham, this guy is special. He's really showed me in this last year he's worked on his ability to throw it and produced.

"People question his throwing motion. But just in this last year the improvement he made as a thrower put him in a whole new league."

Young ranked third in the NCAA with a 163.95 passer rating and completed 65.2% of his passes. Yet Young has scouts scrambling to project how he will do taking snaps under center with his back to the defense, then planting and trying to find his rhythm, not to mention throwing through windows in an opposing defense.

It's why Young's pro day will carry more weight than most.

"If it's even, you have to take the quarterback," NFL.com analyst Gil Brandt says. "What you have to decide if you are the Texans is that if Reggie Bush and Leinart and Vince Young are equal talents, then you have to go with the quarterback because the quarterback has more profound ways of winning games. You can also get a running back later in the draft."

Coaches have taken notice of Young's skill.

"The thing that was impressive was Young's ability to make plays and the consistency of his throws," Broncos coach Mike Shanahan says. "He's been known to not be that accurate and not have the best motion. But when you take a look at the stats and the passing efficiency, it's off the charts.

"Then he makes plays with his legs, and that's what you're looking for in a quarterback, someone who's always making plays. And he does that consistently."

Young won't be able to rely as heavily on his fleet feet in the pros, where defenders are faster and better disguise their intentions.

"There are two distinct camps on Vince Young," NFL Network analyst Mike Mayock says. "The first camp is, 'I don't care what his throwing motion looks like, or that he's not a sophisticated reader of defense. He makes plays and might be the most exciting athlete to ever come into this league.' Then there's the other camp that says, 'He's a bigger Michael Vick. While he's exciting, will he ever get to the next level as a sophisticated quarterback and reader of defense?'

"That second concern is starting to bother personnel people, because the guaranteed dollars are immense. It makes for a more difficult evaluation. Can he come into the NFL and run the ball 15-18 times a game? I'll show you 31 defensive coordinators who would love to have Vince Young run the ball 15-18 times a game.

"(But) sooner or later, he has to be able to throw the football. Are you willing to pass all your chips into the middle of the table and gamble on him?"

Baltimore Ravens coach Brian Billick says: "This league will pick Vince Young apart pretty good in the time before the draft. But I imagine Vince Young will come out of it pretty good.

"What he was able to do last year by way of substantially upgrading his quarterbacking skills, just the numbers, not only the improvement he's made, it shows the upside that's there. That upside is what you want."

Says Pittsburgh Steelers director of football operations Kevin Colbert: "When you watch Vince Young, you see a player who sometimes seems indefensible. He makes plays, be it with his arm or his feet. You would think that would project to success on this level, too.

"When you have a passer who can run like he can, that's a unique player."

 

Hawk

Footballguy
The rebound effect in action. Whenever a really good player gets bashed as much as Vince has over the last few weeks, inevitably you get the rebound effect where some people in the press will start saying "wait a minute, did you forget how good this guy is?" I obviously agree with the article, but I think its funny how predictable and cyclical the press is on things like this.

That was a good video, but I was too distracted by the words on the screen. For some really outstanding video highlights of Vince, you can go to this site.

http://www.jcdenton40.com/VinceYoung.html

The 2003 and 2004 highlight reels are awesome. They are mainly runs early on and then start to include more passes as he developed. The 2005 one should have a lot more passing plays.

 

TheLaw

Footballguy
he should be upbeat..he's going to steal a mega contract worth millions...

and turn into akili smith
Jay Cutler is your Akili comparison - workout warrior only.
 

Andy Dufresne

Footballguy
I hope they sell that Rose Bowl game on DVD. That was the single greatest prerformance I've ever seen.

Edit: After a quick check, it looks like they will.

 
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Birdie048

Footballguy
McNair was in the Rose Bowl stands Jan. 4 when Young led the Longhorns to a 41-38 overtime victory against Southern California to deliver Texas its first national championship in 36 years.
I am sorry to jump on such a trivial point.... but if the writer does not get a key point accurate, how can you put any belief in the rest of his article? OVERTIME ? Did he not watch the same game as the rest of the country?

OK... on Vince Young... nice article, but I don't see how an aging QB can dictate to the GM who they should draft. It's considered that with Norm Chow in Tenn, they would want Leinhart. Tenn has cap issues. How they play this is going to have a long term impact on their future.

I don't see the enormous physical attributes VY has to overcome his limited mental abilities. How can the OC develop plays/schemes to his strength if he can not grasp the Def reading and playbook.

Sorry. I don't see it. VY lands in the middle of round 1 IMO (maybe all the way to #16 Miami or #20 to KC!) :lmao:

 

Bob Magaw

Footballguy
dan marino was apparently feeble minded & only got a 14... clearly he was unable to overcome his dire cognitive challenges & translate his physical ability to success on the field... we've already read THAT book & know how it ends... :)

* you should read this article...

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/45976

its also doubtful leinert is still there at #3... he should go no later than #2...

 
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TheLaw

Footballguy
Jay Cutler is your Akili comparison - workout warrior only.
You obviously have not seen the guy play.
Meaning a guy goes from nobody to a top 5 pick based on workouts/combine. I find it quite ridiculous people are actually saying Cutler should go before VY.
 

cstu

Footballguy
dan marino was apparently feeble minded & only got a 14... clearly he was unable to overcome his dire cognitive challenges & translate his physical ability to success on the field... we've already read THAT book & know how it ends... :)
No one questioned Marino's passing ability coming out of college.
 

Bob Magaw

Footballguy
the point i was addressing is that a low wonderlic score AUTOMATICALLY destines any prospect, even great ones, to NFL failure...

 

Birdie048

Footballguy
dan marino was apparently feeble minded & only got a 14... clearly he was unable to overcome his dire cognitive challenges & translate his physical ability to success on the field... we've already read THAT book & know how it ends... :)

* you should read this article...

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/45976

its also doubtful leinert is still there at #3... he should go no later than #2...
A 14 is far superior to a 6 when compared directly.... plus the requirements of a NFL QB today are much higher due to the complex offensive schemes used compared to the games of Marino's day. How would you feel investing $50M in a guy with such a looming concern. I would want more assurance that the kid won't go and pull a George Rogers on me and write a personal check to the FBI agent for narcotics! He might not be sharp enough to handle the pressure of NFL fame and fortune. It's too much for me to consider him worthy.I never doubted VY's physical ability to play in the NFL. But much like ARK Matt Jones, he might not be suited for QB. Put him at WR and you still have an outstanding athlete. Just not a #1 pick (or Top 5 IMO).

Funny article, btw. I was entertained. :rolleyes:

 

Spike

Footballguy
I'm wondering something about Young's game.

People incessantly talk about how he was solely a shotgun QB in college. But isn't it tough, at least at times, to play out of the shotgun because you have to take your eyes off the defenders when you're looking to receive the snap?

I would have to think that is a very valuable second he's spent on NOT looking at the defense. To me, that is a point in his favor, not against him.

 

cstu

Footballguy
I'm wondering something about Young's game.

People incessantly talk about how he was solely a shotgun QB in college. But isn't it tough, at least at times, to play out of the shotgun because you have to take your eyes off the defenders when you're looking to receive the snap?

I would have to think that is a very valuable second he's spent on NOT looking at the defense. To me, that is a point in his favor, not against him.
What you're missing is that what Young did in college was take the snap, look for an open guy and if he didn't see anyone then he'd take off. Basically playground football. It wasn't anything close to an NFL offense where he'd have to read defenses well and go through progressions.
 

Bob Magaw

Footballguy
dan marino was apparently feeble minded & only got a 14... clearly he was unable to overcome his dire cognitive challenges & translate his physical ability to success on the field... we've already read THAT book & know how it ends... :)

* you should read this article...

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/45976

its also doubtful leinert is still there at #3... he should go no later than #2...
A 14 is far superior to a 6 when compared directly.... plus the requirements of a NFL QB today are much higher due to the complex offensive schemes used compared to the games of Marino's day. How would you feel investing $50M in a guy with such a looming concern. I would want more assurance that the kid won't go and pull a George Rogers on me and write a personal check to the FBI agent for narcotics! He might not be sharp enough to handle the pressure of NFL fame and fortune. It's too much for me to consider him worthy.I never doubted VY's physical ability to play in the NFL. But much like ARK Matt Jones, he might not be suited for QB. Put him at WR and you still have an outstanding athlete. Just not a #1 pick (or Top 5 IMO).

Funny article, btw. I was entertained. :rolleyes:
we don't really know what he scored (no official record & lots of speculation)... it is not uncommon to take more than once... he may be guilty of poor choice in agent/advisor to not have him prepared thoroughly for what to expect...we shall see if he gets close to marino's 14...

when you say the league is more complex now... are you suggesting that marino would have been too dumb to handle things today?

i can see why you wouldn't be amused by the article... it points out how ridiculous it is to maintain rigid adherance to a classroom test as a predictor of on-field ability & success... that couldn't be a comfortable POV given your position...

 
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Bob Magaw

Footballguy
I'm wondering something about Young's game.

People incessantly talk about how he was solely a shotgun QB in college.  But isn't it tough, at least at times, to play out of the shotgun because you have to take your eyes off the defenders when you're looking to receive the snap?

I would have to think that is a very valuable second he's spent on NOT looking at the defense.  To me, that is a point in his favor, not against him.
What you're missing is that what Young did in college was take the snap, look for an open guy and if he didn't see anyone then he'd take off. Basically playground football. It wasn't anything close to an NFL offense where he'd have to read defenses well and go through progressions.
didn't leftwich & rothliesberger play "playground" football... to use your terminology? no doubt there will be some adjustments to taking the ball from a center snap... doesn't the fact that he is a phenomenal athlete (even his worst detractors admit this) count for something to make us think he should be able to walk up to a center, grab the snap, backpedal a few steps & throw the ball... even if he is used to seeing things from a different vantage point... his supreme athleticism should allow him to buy time as it did for cunningham, mcnabb & culpepper before him... & he does have demonstrable ability to find a target & hit him while on the run... these are innate skills that should help immensely in his transition.* after rereading your post, i realized you were making playground comparison more broadly because he ran so freely in college... it just initially reminded me of criticisms of leftwich & rothliesberger that they were risks due to playing in shotgun, & their game might not translate to NFL... i don't recall roth, but clearly leftwich didn't pull up & run if he didn't see first target come open... he waited until another target came open... sorry for misreading your post, though i don't seem to agree with your take on this matter...

the point i was trying to make... there are several NFL-types such as HCs, that are probably in a better position to understand how his athleticism will translate to the NFL than you or i... that go on the record in article that not only can he make the transition... but could be a great one...

i'm reasonably confident that linehan & skeletor are acquainted with all the relevant background facts you brought up... nonetheless, he STILL gets a strong endorsement from them... THAT is all they have to go on, & they are no doubt factoring that in to their projection & extraplolation...

 
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Hawk

Footballguy
I think the under center thing is a bit overblown. Vince was under center a lot in his freshman and sophmore years when Cedric Benson was the tailback and Texas used more I formation with a fullback. This year, with no Cedric, Texas used a much greater percentage of shotgun (including almost exclusive use of it in the title game). But that does not mean Vince never operated from under center during his time at Texas, in fact he did quite a bit.

 
I'm wondering something about Young's game.

People incessantly talk about how he was solely a shotgun QB in college.  But isn't it tough, at least at times, to play out of the shotgun because you have to take your eyes off the defenders when you're looking to receive the snap?

I would have to think that is a very valuable second he's spent on NOT looking at the defense.  To me, that is a point in his favor, not against him.
What you're missing is that what Young did in college was take the snap, look for an open guy and if he didn't see anyone then he'd take off. Basically playground football. It wasn't anything close to an NFL offense where he'd have to read defenses well and go through progressions.
You're talking about his Soph year, not his junior year. If you watched his junior year, you'd know that's not what he did. He went through all of his reads unless under a heavy rush, which was rare due to his excellent protection. THEN, if nobody was open he'd go, because he, unlike most other QBs, has that ability.

 
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Bob Magaw

Footballguy
here was a chat today at espn frpm todd mcshay of scout, inc... its exclusive content, so i can't post whole chat transcript, but one question is timely as it so happens to bear on subject at hand... while expressing concern over wonderlic, he also says he would be surprised if he drops out of top 5... so it couldn't be THAT much of a red flag... at least not for mcshay...

___________________________________________________________________

Any word on Vince Young's wonderlic score? Will we find out what he got the first test or only his top score?

Todd McShay: There are rumors that he took the first test and scored a six and there are also rumors to the contrary. What we do know, whether it was his first or second test, he did score a 16 on one of his attempts. With the average player scoring around a 21 and the average QB typically scoring in the mid to high 20s, a score of 16 is crucifying enough. It lets us know this is clearly an issue. Depending on the teams drafting near the top and how much stock they put into the test, it could become an issue for Young and cause him to drop a few slots. With that said, I'll still be shocked for him to drop out of the top 5 picks. This test can be misleading, because most prospects that have big agents are given the test beforehand or at least something similar. By hiring his uncle as an agent, Young didn't get the test and didn't have the advantage of studying up before it.

 

helix

Footballguy
dan marino was apparently feeble minded & only got a 14... clearly he was unable to overcome his dire cognitive challenges & translate his physical ability to success on the field... we've already read THAT book & know how it ends... :)
No one questioned Marino's passing ability coming out of college.
His fall in the draft may have had to do something with the coke rumors. :shock:
 

cstu

Footballguy
dan marino was apparently feeble minded & only got a 14... clearly he was unable to overcome his dire cognitive challenges & translate his physical ability to success on the field... we've already read THAT book & know how it ends... :)
No one questioned Marino's passing ability coming out of college.
His fall in the draft may have had to do something with the coke rumors. :shock:
I also find it strange that Marino apparently told Collinsworth that he was "randomly" drug tested 8 times in one season.
 

Chaos Commish

Footballguy
Jay Cutler is your Akili comparison - workout warrior only.
You obviously have not seen the guy play.
Meaning a guy goes from nobody to a top 5 pick based on workouts/combine. I find it quite ridiculous people are actually saying Cutler should go before VY.
Not only have you not seen him play, but also you don't understand his rise in the draft. He was solid in Senior Bowl practices, but he had a bad game. He was okay at the combine, but he was no work out warrior. The hype started in October because of his play. His rise has nothing to do with his somewhat unimpressive post-season business. It was his exceptional play at a very unexceptional school. It was praise he received from opposing coaches, scouts, etc.
 

Bob Magaw

Footballguy
mayock grades cutler as top QB in draft...

he has some contrarian views, though...

maroney #2 RB & deangelo #4? if he knows something, somebody is going to get an absolute steal with maroney... he weighed in better than expected at 217... too bad he couldn't run 40 due to bad hammy... if he runs a 4.4 as expected, that should cement him as first rounder... i don't see him lasting to colts, but it of course depends on where white & williams go...

i like the ernie simms #2 LB & d'qwell #4 LB calls... they are gutsy...

 

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