*** Vince Young Thread *** (1 Viewer)

[Texasmouth]

Well let's see, he only takes snaps from the shotgun, his playfakes are atrocious, he can only handle a blitz by running up the middle, and his arm strength appears to be suspect. It just seems like a lot of people are annointing him the next big thing based off one game against an average USC defense without taking into account how his skills may or may not translate into what NFL coaches want.

Of course with this board being notorious for player stroking, I probably brought this up in the wrong place.

Come on man, have you watched him play besides last night? His arm strength is suspect? That is a joke. Give the guy some respect man and quit being such a hater.

 

[P Boy]

Who do you choose? I think people are forgetting that Vick threw the ball pretty well in college.

I'd dispute this assertion rather roundly.

 

[valhallan]

Uhm, are we even sure he'll be a QB in the NFL? Who's to say some coach or GM doesn't want to convert him to WR?

He'll be a QB.

Okie dokie, thanks NFL insider.

I don't think you need to be an insider to say that moving Young to WR is an absurd proposition.

Well let's see, he only takes snaps from the shotgun, his playfakes are atrocious, he can only handle a blitz by running up the middle, and his arm strength appears to be suspect. It just seems like a lot of people are annointing him the next big thing based off one game against an average USC defense without taking into account how his skills may or may not translate into what NFL coaches want.Of course with this board being notorious for player stroking, I probably brought this up in the wrong place.

Hi val,I don't really agree with much of that but the one thing I will agree with (but that wasn't mentioned) is this: I do think NFL GMs are putting a lot of emphasis on last night's game for two reasons:

#1. That was the last time the world will see Vince Young throw a pass outside of one very controlled private workout until the draft. That was it.

#2. There is no way in the world to recreate the pressure that was on him and for that game and more importantly, that last drive. NFL GM's saw a player that was loose and calm and seemed entirely eager to hoist his team on his back and carry them to a gigantic win.

This is huge.

I don't think Vince Young will have any problem learning the footwork for dropping back or the moves in playfaking. That's easy. I don't like his throwing motion but I doubt they try to mess with it. What's not easy is the physical ability. What's even less easy than that is the demeanor he showed in carrying that team.

My .02

J

Interesting take. As a Virginia local who saw Mike Vick in college, I felt he was a bit overhyped going into the NFL and still feel the same way. This just reminds me of that situation, especially how VY went from being a mid-first round pick to the #1 overall overnight. Guess I'm just more a fan of the traditional drop-back QB, who focuses on mechanics and decision-making. I hope Vince Young can do that, because it would be great to see his incredible running ability be an underused deadly weapon much like it was for Steve Young.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

I think the David Carr era in Houston is over.....  Young to Houston would sell out every game.  Period.  Gotta think that's gonna be a HUGE factor for them....this IS a business.

Don't they already sell out every game? Do you think they wouldn't sell out if they drafted Bush?

Not if they continue losing.

 

[tattoofan]

Vince Young= Vick

Lienart= Palmer

Who do you choose? I think people are forgetting that Vick threw the ball pretty well in college. Vick has a big arm but his accuracy leaves a lot to be desired and before the switch the the WCO he was making some strides at QB. Vick is a playmaker, Vince Young is a playmaker. I think Young will be better than Vick. I think Lienart can be as good as Palmer or pretty close in the right situation.

I guess it is a choice of if you want the traditional drop back passer or the high risk high reward playmaker.

I think it would be cool if the Texans traded down to three, took Young and traded Carr. Vick in Houston would bring so much excitement they wouldn't know what to do and he doesn't need the same type line that a drop back passer needs.

HOOK EM!

Vick is not who I think of when watching Young. He reminds me more of this scouting report..."Positives: Comes from a good, supportive family. Is very tough and competitive. Has been extremely durable in college. Super athlete with nice size, outstanding quick feet and great ability to avoid the rush. Is very elusive in the pocket. Sees the field well and, unlike most option, scrambling-type quarterbacks, stays focused on the field when he scrambles and is looking to pass first. Has an NFL arm and can zip the ball. Looks like Warren Moon throwing the ball when he gets into a good groove. Worked hard to improve his throwing accuracy after he gave up basketball, and, at times, it showed in ’98. Has a quick arm and can unload the ball quickly when he has to. Can throw on the move without setting his feet. Shows a remarkable ability to improvise and make plays when nothing seems to be there. Turns busted plays into big plays. Has started four years at a fine football school and faced many outstanding teams before packed houses. Handles pressure and will often come up very big in the clutch (see West Virginia). Very fine runner who can run for positive yardage. Made tremendous progress during practices at the Senior Bowl and then interviewed very well at the Scouting Combine.

Negatives: Played in a freeze-option offense, which means he faced mostly man-on-man coverage and did not have to do that much reading of defenses. Generally, when he did have to read defenses, he just had to read half the field. Can still be a streaky and erratic passer. Needs work on his drop-back techniques. Still must improve timing, touch and anticipation of receiver. Tends to hold on to the ball too long and must learn when to unload. Gets sloppy with the ball at times and is very sloppy when he comes up under center to handle the exchange, leading to unnecessary fumbles. Played in a domed stadium in college and has not had to play in a lot of bad weather. Needs to work on his deep passing. May not be tough enough with his teammates and may be too nice of a guy.

Summary: A great athlete who has always been a play maker and a winner. Needs a lot of work to convert from an option quarterback to an NFL quarterback, but he has the tools to work with and the desire to be the best. Fits the new, more mobile mold of NFL quarterback with his size, mobility and ability to improvise, and he should have a bright future if he gets with a team that will gear its offense to his skills. "

Donovan McNabb

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Who do you choose? I think people are forgetting that Vick threw the ball pretty well in college.

I'd dispute this assertion rather roundly.

That people are forgetting or that Vick threw the ball well?

 

[valhallan]

Jaded much? I'm hoping that you have a personal vendetta of some kind here rather than the alternative.

Nope, just stated what I think. It's easy to see what he's done and assume he'll be a smash in the NFL. It's much harder to take a closer look and question whether what you're seeing will translate to the NFL.

 

[P Boy]

Who do you choose? I think people are forgetting that Vick threw the ball pretty well in college.

I'd dispute this assertion rather roundly.

That people are forgetting or that Vick threw the ball well?

That Vick threw the ball well.

 

[valhallan]

Come on man, have you watched him play besides last night? His arm strength is suspect? That is a joke. Give the guy some respect man and quit being such a hater.

I saw him in last year's Rose Bowl, and a few games this year. Great college player, no doubt. I'm just not drinking the kool-aid on him yet. Sorry.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

Uhm, are we even sure he'll be a QB in the NFL?  Who's to say some coach or GM doesn't want to convert him to WR?

He'll be a QB.

Okie dokie, thanks NFL insider.

I don't think you need to be an insider to say that moving Young to WR is an absurd proposition.

Well let's see, he only takes snaps from the shotgun, his playfakes are atrocious, he can only handle a blitz by running up the middle, and his arm strength appears to be suspect. It just seems like a lot of people are annointing him the next big thing based off one game against an average USC defense without taking into account how his skills may or may not translate into what NFL coaches want.Of course with this board being notorious for player stroking, I probably brought this up in the wrong place.

Does this mean that when Young is drafted as a QB and practices as a QB next year, that you will consider me an NFL insider ! WOW !! Thanks !

 

[WhoDat]

Not if they continue losing.

Young would buy McNair a few more years to build a winner. I am not saying drafting him #1 is the best football decision but it appears to be a sound business decision and it should extend the patience of the fan base.

 

[valhallan]

Does this mean that when Young is drafted as a QB and practices as a QB next year, that you will consider me an NFL insider ! WOW !! Thanks !

You're a 5-digiter who paid for a 3-digit number. I have no respect for such actions. Begone!

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Not if they continue losing.

Young would buy McNair a few more years to build a winner. I am not saying drafting him #1 is the best football decision but it appears to be a sound business decision and it should extend the patience of the fan base.

All I was saying with this reply is I think Young gives them a better chance of winning than Bush. And winning keeps selling the place out.

 

[WhoDat]

All I was saying with this reply is I think Young gives them a better chance of winning than Bush. And winning keeps selling the place out.

Got it. I got tripped up trying to follow along but we ultimately agree.

 

[Jason Wood]

Uhm, are we even sure he'll be a QB in the NFL?  Who's to say some coach or GM doesn't want to convert him to WR?

He'll be a QB.

Okie dokie, thanks NFL insider.

I don't think you need to be an insider to say that moving Young to WR is an absurd proposition.

Well let's see, he only takes snaps from the shotgun, his playfakes are atrocious, he can only handle a blitz by running up the middle, and his arm strength appears to be suspect. It just seems like a lot of people are annointing him the next big thing based off one game against an average USC defense without taking into account how his skills may or may not translate into what NFL coaches want.Of course with this board being notorious for player stroking, I probably brought this up in the wrong place.

Byron Leftwich, Chad Pennington & Alex Smith were shotgun collegiate QBs and all were taken without hesitation. Meanwhile Young has wheels AND size.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

Does this mean that when Young is drafted as a QB and practices as a QB next year, that you will consider me an NFL insider !  WOW !!  Thanks ! 

You're a 5-digiter who paid for a 3-digit number. I have no respect for such actions. Begone!

You're thinking of someone else. I paid $0.00 for that number. Someone willed it to me and Shick! made it so. I never even asked for it.Besides which, if you're going to sully this thread with the ridiculous notion that Vince Young is going to be converted to a WR prior to the draft, you're really the one who should take off. I was sparing you by simply saying "He'll be a QB" rather than piling on about how absurd that idea was, and you felt the need to try to skewer me with some snide, sarcastic remark. I have no respect for such actions.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

Uhm, are we even sure he'll be a QB in the NFL?  Who's to say some coach or GM doesn't want to convert him to WR?

He'll be a QB.

Okie dokie, thanks NFL insider.

I don't think you need to be an insider to say that moving Young to WR is an absurd proposition.

Well let's see, he only takes snaps from the shotgun, his playfakes are atrocious, he can only handle a blitz by running up the middle, and his arm strength appears to be suspect. It just seems like a lot of people are annointing him the next big thing based off one game against an average USC defense without taking into account how his skills may or may not translate into what NFL coaches want.Of course with this board being notorious for player stroking, I probably brought this up in the wrong place.

 

[valhallan]

Does this mean that when Young is drafted as a QB and practices as a QB next year, that you will consider me an NFL insider ! WOW !! Thanks !

You're a 5-digiter who paid for a 3-digit number. I have no respect for such actions. Begone!

Besides which, if you're going to sully this thread with the ridiculous notion that Vince Young is going to be converted to a WR prior to the draft something other than unconditional love for Vince Young, you're really the one who should take off.

Fixed.And I didn't say he should be a WR. I simply asked why we're assuming he'll be a QB.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

I simply asked why we're assuming he'll be a QB.

Because for as high as he'll be drafted, a coaching staff would be crucified for switching his position.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

Does this mean that when Young is drafted as a QB and practices as a QB next year, that you will consider me an NFL insider !  WOW !!  Thanks ! 

You're a 5-digiter who paid for a 3-digit number. I have no respect for such actions. Begone!

Besides which, if you're going to sully this thread with the ridiculous notion that Vince Young is going to be converted to a WR prior to the draft something other than unconditional love for Vince Young, you're really the one who should take off.

Fixed.And I didn't say he should be a WR. I simply asked why we're assuming he'll be a QB.

Because he's a top-5 draft pick as a QB. You don't draft a QB in the top 5 and then convert him to a WR. This is not a Matt Jones situation where he was only going to be drafted as a WR. You really think Young is going to sign with a team that wants him to play WR? Come on, man - this is just ridiculous.It's got nothing to do with unconditional love. I think Young has a lot of flaws that are going to have to be worked out, and he's not the type of traditional pocket passer I prefer as my team's QB. However, he just played perhaps the best game any college football player has ever played and on the biggest possible stage. What do you think is going to result? The man-love in this thread is reflective of what GMs and scouts are feeling right now. Young made himself a top-3 pick with that performance last night, and there's a sentiment after watching him play that he could be a revolutionary QB in the way that Vick has not fully realized.

 

[valhallan]

I simply asked why we're assuming he'll be a QB.

Because for as high as he'll be drafted, a coaching staff would be crucified for switching his position.

Ah, that makes much more sense. Well I hope it works out for them.

 

[dgreen]

I simply asked why we're assuming he'll be a QB.

Because for as high as he'll be drafted, a coaching staff would be crucified for switching his position.

A good coaching staff wouldn't care if they'd be crucified. All the talk about Houston taking Young because he's from Texas and that fans will want Young because of what they saw is stupid. If a coaching staff made decisions based on anything other than winning, they are a bad coaching staff. I don't think there is a single NFL GM that woke up this morning with Young as their clear #1 player who didn't have him as their #1, or 1b, player when he sat down to watch the game last night.

 

[P Boy]

Fixed.And I didn't say he should be a WR. I simply asked why we're assuming he'll be a QB.

Ummmmm - because he's proven that he can play at the elite level at QB in college?This kind of query is just as funny now as it was last season when people were speculating that Brandon Jacobs would be moved to DE.

 

[valhallan]

Fixed.

And I didn't say he should be a WR. I simply asked why we're assuming he'll be a QB.

Ummmmm - because he's proven that he can play at the elite level at QB in college?This kind of query is just as funny now as it was last season when people were speculating that Brandon Jacobs would be moved to DE.

I hardly think Brandon Jones being able to convert 3rd and shorts means RB is his best position. How many fat linemen and linebackers have been put into such roles in the past? Tons. A lot of people on this board laughed about people thinking Matt Jones could make it as a WR, but he seems to have turned out just fine.

As a GM or coach, I'm not sure I'd want Vince Young as my QB over Matt Leinart. Some probably agree with me, many probably don't.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

I simply asked why we're assuming he'll be a QB.

Because for as high as he'll be drafted, a coaching staff would be crucified for switching his position.

A good coaching staff wouldn't care if they'd be crucified. All the talk about Houston taking Young because he's from Texas and that fans will want Young because of what they saw is stupid. If a coaching staff made decisions based on anything other than winning, they are a bad coaching staff. I don't think there is a single NFL GM that woke up this morning with Young as their clear #1 player who didn't have him as their #1, or 1b, player when he sat down to watch the game last night.

I don't think Young would give any team a better chance of winning if he were a WR as opposed to a QB.It wasn't the physical game that impressed me last night as much as it was his mental game. He looked so incredibly poised last night. As if he knew what the rest of us were going to find out.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

Fixed.

And I didn't say he should be a WR.  I simply asked why we're assuming he'll be a QB.

Ummmmm - because he's proven that he can play at the elite level at QB in college?This kind of query is just as funny now as it was last season when people were speculating that Brandon Jacobs would be moved to DE.

I hardly think Brandon Jones being able to convert 3rd and shorts means RB is his best position. How many fat linemen and linebackers have been put into such roles in the past? Tons. A lot of people on this board laughed about people thinking Matt Jones could make it as a WR, but he seems to have turned out just fine.

As a GM or coach, I'm not sure I'd want Vince Young as my QB over Matt Leinart. Some probably agree with me, many probably don't.

That's not even the issue here. I'd rather have Leinart than Young too. The point is that there is a 0.000% chance of Vince Young being drafted at any position other than QB. Everyone but you seems to get this.If you want to point out Young's flaws, or make a case that he won't be a strong NFL QB, have at it. I don't even necessarily disagree. However, based on that performance last night, there are going to be teams that are envisioning him being able to do unique things at the QB spot, and I would not be shocked to see him go ahead of Leinart based on potential.

 

[valhallan]

Fixed.

And I didn't say he should be a WR. I simply asked why we're assuming he'll be a QB.

Ummmmm - because he's proven that he can play at the elite level at QB in college?This kind of query is just as funny now as it was last season when people were speculating that Brandon Jacobs would be moved to DE.

I hardly think Brandon Jones being able to convert 3rd and shorts means RB is his best position. How many fat linemen and linebackers have been put into such roles in the past? Tons. A lot of people on this board laughed about people thinking Matt Jones could make it as a WR, but he seems to have turned out just fine.

As a GM or coach, I'm not sure I'd want Vince Young as my QB over Matt Leinart. Some probably agree with me, many probably don't.

That's not even the issue here. I'd rather have Leinart than Young too. The point is that there is a 0.000% chance of Vince Young being drafted at any position other than QB. Everyone but you seems to get this.If you want to point out Young's flaws, or make a case that he won't be a strong NFL QB, have at it. I don't even necessarily disagree. However, based on that performance last night, there are going to be teams that are envisioning him being able to do unique things at the QB spot, and I would not be shocked to see him go ahead of Leinart based on potential.

I GET THAT HE'LL BE A QB.Happy now?

 

[Evilgrin 72]

Fixed.

And I didn't say he should be a WR.  I simply asked why we're assuming he'll be a QB.

Ummmmm - because he's proven that he can play at the elite level at QB in college?This kind of query is just as funny now as it was last season when people were speculating that Brandon Jacobs would be moved to DE.

I hardly think Brandon Jones being able to convert 3rd and shorts means RB is his best position. How many fat linemen and linebackers have been put into such roles in the past? Tons. A lot of people on this board laughed about people thinking Matt Jones could make it as a WR, but he seems to have turned out just fine.

As a GM or coach, I'm not sure I'd want Vince Young as my QB over Matt Leinart. Some probably agree with me, many probably don't.

That's not even the issue here. I'd rather have Leinart than Young too. The point is that there is a 0.000% chance of Vince Young being drafted at any position other than QB. Everyone but you seems to get this.If you want to point out Young's flaws, or make a case that he won't be a strong NFL QB, have at it. I don't even necessarily disagree. However, based on that performance last night, there are going to be teams that are envisioning him being able to do unique things at the QB spot, and I would not be shocked to see him go ahead of Leinart based on potential.

I GET THAT HE'LL BE A QB.Happy now?

Now you too are an NFL insider.

 

[P Boy]

Now you too are an NFL insider.

 

[Gargoylez]

Vince Young?Ummm no. Its a "poors man" Michael Vick. leinart will be a better NFL qb PERIOD. Not even a question...

 

[Chaos Commish]

Vince Young?

Ummm no. Its a "poors man" Michael Vick. leinart will be a better NFL qb PERIOD. Not even a question...

Whew. That certainly settles it. Thanks.

 

[Joe Bryant]

nobody has ever dominated the game the way this guy does.  it may not translate to the NFL but he's the best college player of all time, no question.

And he prefers manparts.Fart sound here____________

Turn the tool factor WAY down if you want to keep posting here.TIA.

J

 

[The Gator]

Vince Young?

Ummm no. Its a "poors man" Michael Vick. leinart will be a better NFL qb PERIOD. Not even a question...

Lienart is a rich mans Pennington. That means someone will overpay for a weak armed QB. If Lienart was at any mid major like Pennington was he would be a late first rounder. Whoever drafts Lienart will get a good NFL QB, but his value at #2 is overvalued.

 

[Stinger Ray]

Vince Young?

Ummm no. Its a "poors man" Michael Vick. leinart will be a better NFL qb PERIOD. Not even a question...

vick wishes he could be as cool, calm, confident and in control like in-vince-able is.leinart will prolly be the better pro fit, but for fantasy id rather have young.

 

[flarkworms]

Posted this in a FFA thread, but thought I'd add it here too with slight modification (for context):With all the comparisons in here to prior NFL QBs, I think people are missing the obvious. If you look at Leinart's attributes--good size, limited. but somewhat underrated, mobility, above average arm strength, outstanding accuracy and strong field leadership--the best comparison IMO is Matt Leinart=Bernie Kosar.With regard to Vince Young's pro prospects, it should be kept in mind that there is no pro offense that is designed (or has ever been designed) to take advantage of a running QB. I agree that Vince is an excellent passer but it remains to be seen how he would do in a situation where teams are able to rush the passer without worrying about the fact that the offense is also designed for the QB run. (I admit this is nitpicking, but with QBs of this quality that's all we can do.)Bottom line: Leinart and Young are both outstanding pro prospects and will go very high in the draft. (Great insight, I know.)

 

[jfontestad]

I wouldn't go as far as saying that V.Y. is the greatest of all time, but he is so much more of a versatile QB the Matt. and I really believe that V.Y. will be a much more better NFL QB due to his versatility.

 

[Phlash]

Ok Vince Young could either be a huge player in the pros, or fail miserably. If some teams tries to force him into being a WCO QB like Michael Vick, he's going to fail. If a team runs a "run and gun" offense or an offense based less on timing and more on playmaking, Vince Young will THRIVE. He needs to be able to make the decision on whether to run or throw, instead of being forced to throw on a 5 step drop, for example.

 

[Colin Dowling]

THere are 7 players in my lifetime that when they played in college, they were clearly the best player on the field most every snap.1. Hershel Walker2. Barry Sanders3. Bo Jackson4. Peyton Manning5. Vince Young6. Ricky Williams7. Reggie Bush*Bush gets a * b/c he wasn't even the 2nd best player on the field last night.

 

[vitaflo]

If this poll is if I owned an NFL team, my pick is Leinart.If this poll is who I'd want on my Fantasy team, my pick is Young.Young's a freak of nature, but he'll have to change his throwing style in the NFL, which could limit his passing ability. He's also not going to be able to run as rough shod all over the field in the NFL without having his head torn off.

 

[BigJim®]

If this poll is if I owned an NFL team, my pick is Leinart.

If this poll is who I'd want on my Fantasy team, my pick is Young.

Young's a freak of nature, but he'll have to change his throwing style in the NFL, which could limit his passing ability. He's also not going to be able to run as rough shod all over the field in the NFL without having his head torn off.

As to FF, I'll add that based solely on the poll in this thread I would likely take Young over Leinart in a rookie draft even though I suspect Leinart may have a better career with less injury risk as a pocket passer. Reason being, unproven rookies are very valuable as tradebait in dynasty leagues and since it's unlikely a rookie stays on your roster forever I could not justify selecting the guy 2/3 of FFers believe is less valuable.

 

[saintfool]

Ok Vince Young could either be a huge player in the pros, or fail miserably. If some teams tries to force him into being a WCO QB like Michael Vick, he's going to fail. If a team runs a "run and gun" offense or an offense based less on timing and more on playmaking, Vince Young will THRIVE. He needs to be able to make the decision on whether to run or throw, instead of being forced to throw on a 5 step drop, for example.

he'll need a offensive line that is lights out the *best* in the business. he had the luxury of time that most NFL qb's don't. he'd get mauled behind, say, the Texans line.

 

[Iwannabeacowboybaby!]

THere are 7 players in my lifetime that when they played in college, they were clearly the best player on the field most every snap.

1. Hershel Walker

2. Barry Sanders

3. Bo Jackson

4. Peyton Manning

5. Vince Young

6. Ricky Williams

7. Reggie Bush*

Bush gets a * b/c he wasn't even the 2nd best player on the field last night.

Bush wasn't in the top 3, nor the top back on his team last night, clearly evident that on 4th and 2 with the National Championship on the line, he wans't even in the game. On 4th and 2, he doesn't have to get the ball, use him as some sort of decoy, Michael Jordan didn't shoot every game winning shot for the Bulls. But Michael Jordan was always in the game.......Bush was on the sidelines.

 

[beef]

Kiper like Young better than Vick when Vick came out.Kiper currently has his top three like this1a. Bush1a. Leinart1a. YoungSays all three have an equal chance to go #1.

 

[derek19]

4-6 here. He could go 3rd, but we;ll see.

If he drops to sixth, unlikely to happen, 9ers draft him and then trade Alex Smith to the lions!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Andy Dufresne]

4-6 here.  He could go 3rd, but we;ll see.

If he drops to sixth, unlikely to happen, 9ers draft him and then trade Alex Smith to the lions!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Make sure you save your game after making that transaction.

 

[simsarge]

Ok Vince Young could either be a huge player in the pros, or fail miserably. If some teams tries to force him into being a WCO QB like Michael Vick, he's going to fail. If a team runs a "run and gun" offense or an offense based less on timing and more on playmaking, Vince Young will THRIVE. He needs to be able to make the decision on whether to run or throw, instead of being forced to throw on a 5 step drop, for example.

he'll need a offensive line that is lights out the *best* in the business. he had the luxury of time that most NFL qb's don't. he'd get mauled behind, say, the Texans line.

My wonder is who's going to give him carte blanche to turn loose everytime his coverage starts to break down and a Ray Lewis or Ronde Barber is lurking 3 yards behind the line of scrimmage? Gotta figure shades of Vick getting his leg twisted into a pretzel have got to be flashing before them everytime he bolts. NFL linebackers/safetys don't tackle like USC linebackers/safetys. If I'm an owner, I and I know they're both (him and Leinart) going to cost me a mint I think I want the guy I know is going to be back behind center the next play.

I know there's a lot more to it than that, but just my general take.

 

[DPRugby]

4-6 here.  He could go 3rd, but we;ll see.

If he drops to sixth, unlikely to happen, 9ers draft him and then trade Alex Smith to the lions!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Make sure you save your game after making that transaction.

 

[simsarge]

Posted this in a FFA thread, but thought I'd add it here too with slight modification (for context):

With all the comparisons in here to prior NFL QBs, I think people are missing the obvious. If you look at Leinart's attributes--good size, limited. but somewhat underrated, mobility, above average arm strength, outstanding accuracy and strong field leadership--the best comparison IMO is Matt Leinart=Bernie Kosar.

With regard to Vince Young's pro prospects, it should be kept in mind that there is no pro offense that is designed (or has ever been designed) to take advantage of a running QB. I agree that Vince is an excellent passer but it remains to be seen how he would do in a situation where teams are able to rush the passer without worrying about the fact that the offense is also designed for the QB run. (I admit this is nitpicking, but with QBs of this quality that's all we can do.)

Bottom line: Leinart and Young are both outstanding pro prospects and will go very high in the draft. (Great insight, I know.)

All in all, I thought Leinart looked pretty light on his feet last night. Not VY light, but not Vinnie Testeverde light either.

 

[DPRugby]

Ok Vince Young could either be a huge player in the pros, or fail miserably. If some teams tries to force him into being a WCO QB like Michael Vick, he's going to fail. If a team runs a "run and gun" offense or an offense based less on timing and more on playmaking, Vince Young will THRIVE. He needs to be able to make the decision on whether to run or throw, instead of being forced to throw on a 5 step drop, for example.

he'll need a offensive line that is lights out the *best* in the business. he had the luxury of time that most NFL qb's don't. he'd get mauled behind, say, the Texans line.

My wonder is who's going to give him carte blanche to turn loose everytime his coverage starts to break down and a Ray Lewis or Ronde Barber is lurking 3 yards behind the line of scrimmage? Gotta figure shades of Vick getting his leg twisted into a pretzel have got to be flashing before them everytime he bolts. NFL linebackers/safetys don't tackle like USC linebackers/safetys. If I'm an owner, I and I know they're both (him and Leinart) going to cost me a mint I think I want the guy I know is going to be back behind center the next play.

I know there's a lot more to it than that, but just my general take.

I made this same point in the FFA. VY got through some arm tackles last night on alot of the plays he made. In the NFL he goes down on those plays. I don't know if VY is faster than Vick (I think Vick is faster), he's bigger but that just means a bigger target for those lbs and safteys to tee off on. I see Vince being a middle of the road pro who eventualy gets hurt running the ball one to many times.

 

[simsarge]

Let's look at this another way too (may have been mentioned, but I didn't read all 200 posts, sorry).If you're Young, are you more inclined to come out this year as opposed to next? Aside from the "One hit away..." theory, what's his competition next year? Quinn?I would think he'd stack up better there as opposed to maybe being#2 or #3 to Leinart/Bush.Also I thought I'd heard something about a change in the way rookies are going to become free agents in a few years. Is this already in effect? Or is it forthcoming?