Vince Young (1 Viewer)

[guderian]

stats arent perfect. sample size issues. situation issues. believe or not there is luck and variance in sports. having "top" or "elite" stats does not mean a player is indeed on that level. but those stats can be useful in refuting a vocal contingent that believes young is a bad or negative QB.

And I'll say this again Fisher has not had VY's back since he was "forced" on him.I'd be willing to bet if VY went on a 3 game losing streak he'd be benched IMMEDIATELY yet Fisher stuck with KC through a 0-6 start which ultimately cost them a playoff spot last year AND it took the owner of the Titans to get Fisher to make the change.

Young started out 0-4 in the 2006 season and was not benched.Young lost 3 in a row in 2007 and was not benched.

Again, Collins was probably the 3rd or 4th reason (if that) for the losses in 2009. To complain about how Fisher managed that situation just strikes me as sour grapes. Collins had just come off a 13-3 season. Unlike VY, Collins earned Fisher's trust. Look at McNair. He was never given anything - that guy proved to Fisher he could play. VY has had everything given to him - ever since college. Again, VY came off a terrible 2007 season and he ditched the team. No one has yet explained to me why anybody.. save the guy who drafted him.. has ANY reason to put VY back in the very next season in place of a QB who has proven he can consistently lead the team. VY would have been cut two years ago by a lot of teams after all that drama.

I will admit that Young has looked better this year after the coaching staff has gone out of their way to hold him down and limit his possibilities for mistakes. The high QB rating and low attempts are not incidental. While a limited VY is better than a VY cut loose, long term the team can do better at the position -- Collins has shown that even an old guy with no legs can win with this team.

No.The Titans lost their first 3 games in 2006 before starting VY in game 4. Until then KC started and VY only played the 2nd half of game 2.

He did lose his first 2 starts to the Cowboys and Colts. Including those two losses, the Titans went 8-5 with VY starting in 2006.

As for an old guy with no legs winning with this team...yes he had a very nice run in 08', but in the long run, not so much. Since VY has arrived, the Titans are 44-32. With VY starting, they are 30-17. With any other qb starting, they are 14-15. That seems a large enough sampling to indicate that this is not mere coincidence, imho.

Re: VY doing better when the Titans have "held him down" this year, his passer rating has been good all season, but it didn't really take off and move to the top of the charts until Dinger started calling shots down the field in the Dallas game and beyond.

I'd like to add that the theory that the Titans are "holding him down to eliminate his mistakes" is completely false also.

Over the last two years, 19.8% of Young's passes have been thrown 20-yards beyond the line of scrimmage to 10.2% for Collins. Young is 22/68 for 781 yards with 7 TDs and 5 INTs on such passes. Collins is 7/33 for 301 2/4.

 

[guderian]

There's stuff on twitter that Vince is in Texas. I have no idea if it's true but, as I said earlier, I sincerely hope he's spending time with Mack Brown. Everything seems to me like he's going to need Mack to point out the obvious to him and it'll be well received because Mack loves the guy. I have not had the impression that Vince can help himself like most more mature men can. Have you guys?If that is sadly the case then I would guess only someone like his family or Mack can set him straight. Hitting rock bottom a couple years ago didn't work.

Hopefully Mack tells him to get the #### out of Tennessee and go somewhere where he's wanted and won't get benched repeatedly.

 

[guderian]

it certainly seems that fisher has been unfair to vince. but we dont know what goes on during practice, meetings and the locker room.

It's well documented that he lacks work ethic. I truly think he has lots of talent, but his lack of commitment to work hard at the NFL level (he cruised by on talent in college like plenty of others) is one reason why Fisher doesn't like him.Take just one week before as an example. Again, Vince Young was acting childish due to being told he wouldn't start the Week 10 game. He failed to show up at the facility for workouts and rehab for his injury and he also skipped out on the team meeting (and now people are feeling sorry for him for "not being allowed at the meeting" this week, so funny).

Here's the link

Quote:

"Titans QB Vince Young did miss treatment last week and Friday meetings. The feeling in the Titans building is that he is extremely unreliable. His work ethic will need to improve if he is going to turn his career around. Young has not endeared himself to teammates, who know the real story about his work ethic. He did not even try to work out before Sunday's game, just accepting his number two status. He then showed, when he had to play when Kerry Collins got hurt, he was more than capable. The Titans need Young to grow up fast, and stop making excuses."

And it says he was "more than capable" in relief of KC in the game. But that's the frustrating part. I know he has talent. And people can quote all the stats they want, but the point is he could be better if he stopped acting like a whiny 10 year-old kid and he put the work in and showed commitment to his team. He could be great, he has the talent. Last season I thought he had matured but he has proven this year that he is still emotionally immature and that hurts the team. A team can survive a WR being like that but they need their star QB to hold it together when things get rough.

"NASHVILLE (AP) -- Tennessee Titans quarterback Vince Young is hosting an informal minicamp this week in Houston with some Titans receivers during a break in training in Nashville. Since his draft in April 2006, the Houston native has talked about the importance of establishing a bond with his new teammates. The Titans finished their last minicamp May 31 and aren't scheduled back for another workout until June 19. The Titans need receivers to step up following the departure of Drew Bennett and Bobby Wade, the team's top two receivers last year."Lacks work ethic. Yep. Whenever Fisher is trying to make a point...

 

[FavreCo]

I remember the days when there were David Carr backers, David Garrard backers, even J-fat Russell backers. Guys who had no chance of taking a team to the big dance. I'm always right when it comes to QB evaluation. Great scouting can see suckage miles away. Some people can't see it but eventually they have no option but to admit it. There are always plenty of excuses. Carr backers lead the league as they blamed the HC, the OC, the WR's the OL. Year after year, these scapegoats would be upgraded. Year after year, the same results. Eventually it all had to come back to the real problem.

Fisher is taking care of that. He knows the team is solid. He just needs that final piece of the puzzle. An NFL QB.

 

[guderian]

Solid 30th in passing yards.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/stats/leaders...DS/2010/regular

Other career stats compare favorably to one David Carr. Nice.

You're being deliberately obtuse. He's 31st in passing attempts. Of course he's going to be low in passing yards. Keep up your usual awful shtick.

So what the hell is he doing out there? Managing the game?

Glad you went back to making nonsensical statements instead of trying to use facts. It's much more amusing.

 

[guderian]

Young's transgression is that he wanted to go back into the game with what turned out to be a season ending injury.

That is not it at all.

lolThey just don't know, man, if they havenn't lived and breathed the Vince Young era.

Guerdian, surely you remember the Aaron Brooks years in New Orleans. this is like that, only more of a soap opera.

Brooks never had a passer rating approaching 100 and he was never better than 9-7.

 

[FavreCo]

Solid 30th in passing yards.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/stats/leaders...DS/2010/regular

Other career stats compare favorably to one David Carr. Nice.

You're being deliberately obtuse. He's 31st in passing attempts. Of course he's going to be low in passing yards. Keep up your usual awful shtick.

So what the hell is he doing out there? Managing the game?

Glad you went back to making nonsensical statements instead of trying to use facts. It's much more amusing.

Facts like he can't win a playoff game. You know, the playoffs, where the best of the best are?

 

[guderian]

I remember the days when there were David Carr backers, David Garrard backers, even J-fat Russell backers. Guys who had no chance of taking a team to the big dance. I'm always right when it comes to QB evaluation. Great scouting can see suckage miles away. Some people can't see it but eventually they have no option but to admit it. There are always plenty of excuses. Carr backers lead the league as they blamed the HC, the OC, the WR's the OL. Year after year, these scapegoats would be upgraded. Year after year, the same results. Eventually it all had to come back to the real problem. Fisher is taking care of that. He knows the team is solid. He just needs that final piece of the puzzle. An NFL QB.

Outside of Carr having a losing record and horrible stats, they're exactly the same...and where are they going to get this "NFL QB" that you seek? They won't get better than the 3rd QB in the draft and the FA QB market is quite thin this year.

 

[guderian]

Facts like he can't win a playoff game. You know, the playoffs, where the best of the best are?

 

[FavreCo]

Facts like he can't win a playoff game. You know, the playoffs, where the best of the best are?

I know. Glad you finally see the light.

 

[NJJets]

Solid 30th in passing yards.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/stats/leaders...DS/2010/regular

Other career stats compare favorably to one David Carr. Nice.

You're being deliberately obtuse. He's 31st in passing attempts. Of course he's going to be low in passing yards. Keep up your usual awful shtick.

So what the hell is he doing out there? Managing the game?

Glad you went back to making nonsensical statements instead of trying to use facts. It's much more amusing.

Facts like he can't win a playoff game. You know, the playoffs, where the best of the best are?

How about the guy getting to play in MORE THAN ONE before you start saying he can't win a playoff game.Fisher didn't want him and he has a quicker hook for him than he does other QB's

 

[guderian]

Here's a list of Free Agent QBs from KFFL. I eliminated some players that will almost certainly be re-signed by their existing teams.

Available:

John Beck

Kellen Clemens

Kerry Collins

Brodie Croyle

Brett Favre

Charlie Frye

Bruce Gradkowski

Brian Griese

Matt Hasselbeck

Shaun Hill

J.T. O'Sullivan

Chad Pennington

Sage Rosenfels

Troy Smith

Drew Stanton

Tyler Thigpen

Michael Vick

Billy Volek

Seneca Wallace

Eliminated:

Tom Brady

Kevin Kolb (already re-signed with Philly)

Peyton Manning

Donovan McNabb

 

[FavreCo]

I remember the days when there were David Carr backers, David Garrard backers, even J-fat Russell backers. Guys who had no chance of taking a team to the big dance. I'm always right when it comes to QB evaluation. Great scouting can see suckage miles away. Some people can't see it but eventually they have no option but to admit it. There are always plenty of excuses. Carr backers lead the league as they blamed the HC, the OC, the WR's the OL. Year after year, these scapegoats would be upgraded. Year after year, the same results. Eventually it all had to come back to the real problem. Fisher is taking care of that. He knows the team is solid. He just needs that final piece of the puzzle. An NFL QB.

Outside of Carr having a losing record and horrible stats, they're exactly the same...and where are they going to get this "NFL QB" that you seek? They won't get better than the 3rd QB in the draft and the FA QB market is quite thin this year.

You start throwing #### against the wall and hope it sticks. Young slides to the bottom. Time to see if Rusty Smith sticks. If he doesn't move on. Fitzpatrcik is playing pretty damn well for a horrific Buffalo team. They are out there.

 

[cvnpoka]

at the stats saying he's a top 5 qb. If that's the case I'm sure he's your starting qb in all your leagues. Some of you need to watch some football and get out of the stats if you think he's a top Qb. Funny stuff.

work on your comprehension and analysis. if the stats say he is a top 5 qb then its a very strong indication that those who think he is an average or worse qb are wrong. thats all the vince supporters are arguing. dont strawman.

He's in the top half of starting qb's in the NFL.

Solid 30th in passing yards. http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/stats/leaders...DS/2010/regular

Other career stats compare favorably to one David Carr. Nice.

why be blatantly disingenuous? what does it accomplish?

 

[FavreCo]

How about the guy getting to play in MORE THAN ONE before you start saying he can't win a playoff game.Fisher didn't want him and he has a quicker hook for him than he does other QB's

So he is absolved from any blame for them not getting there? What a gig. Sounds like David Carr.

 

[LittlePhatty]

Here's the last thing I will say in this thread: I truly, sincerely hope he is the starting QB for another team next year.

 

[Dr. Awesome]

I remember the days when there were David Carr backers, David Garrard backers, even J-fat Russell backers. Guys who had no chance of taking a team to the big dance. I'm always right when it comes to QB evaluation. Great scouting can see suckage miles away. Some people can't see it but eventually they have no option but to admit it. There are always plenty of excuses. Carr backers lead the league as they blamed the HC, the OC, the WR's the OL. Year after year, these scapegoats would be upgraded. Year after year, the same results. Eventually it all had to come back to the real problem. Fisher is taking care of that. He knows the team is solid. He just needs that final piece of the puzzle. An NFL QB.

Big fan of this shtick. Keep up the good work. You'll need to find some halfway decent bait if you expect me to keep biting, but good luck with the other fish.

 

[FavreCo]

I remember the days when there were David Carr backers, David Garrard backers, even J-fat Russell backers. Guys who had no chance of taking a team to the big dance. I'm always right when it comes to QB evaluation. Great scouting can see suckage miles away. Some people can't see it but eventually they have no option but to admit it. There are always plenty of excuses. Carr backers lead the league as they blamed the HC, the OC, the WR's the OL. Year after year, these scapegoats would be upgraded. Year after year, the same results. Eventually it all had to come back to the real problem. Fisher is taking care of that. He knows the team is solid. He just needs that final piece of the puzzle. An NFL QB.

Big fan of this shtick. Keep up the good work. You'll need to find some halfway decent bait if you expect me to keep biting, but good luck with the other fish.

Thanks. So what's your plan? Keep Vince in there and know that winning a playoff game, let alone dreaming of a superbowl is out of the question?

 

[Dr. Awesome]

I remember the days when there were David Carr backers, David Garrard backers, even J-fat Russell backers. Guys who had no chance of taking a team to the big dance. I'm always right when it comes to QB evaluation. Great scouting can see suckage miles away. Some people can't see it but eventually they have no option but to admit it. There are always plenty of excuses. Carr backers lead the league as they blamed the HC, the OC, the WR's the OL. Year after year, these scapegoats would be upgraded. Year after year, the same results. Eventually it all had to come back to the real problem. Fisher is taking care of that. He knows the team is solid. He just needs that final piece of the puzzle. An NFL QB.

Big fan of this shtick. Keep up the good work. You'll need to find some halfway decent bait if you expect me to keep biting, but good luck with the other fish.

Thanks. So what's your plan? Keep Vince in there and know that winning a playoff game, let alone dreaming of a superbowl is out of the question?

I think most of us can agree Bud Adams needs to keep Fisher or Young. But not both. I'd keep Vince. But I can see the argument for either side.

 

[cvnpoka]

at the stats saying he's a top 5 qb. If that's the case I'm sure he's your starting qb in all your leagues. Some of you need to watch some football and get out of the stats if you think he's a top Qb. Funny stuff.

work on your comprehension and analysis. if the stats say he is a top 5 qb then its a very strong indication that those who think he is an average or worse qb are wrong. thats all the vince supporters are arguing. dont strawman.

He's in the top half of starting qb's in the NFL.

What's wrong with saying he's average? Isn't that about where he is compared to his peers? QB's I'd put ahead of VY: P. Manning, Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Rivers, Big Ben, E. Manning, Vick, Ryan, Flacco, Freeman, Orton, Schaub, Bradford, and Sanchez. That's 15. Some could also argue Favre and Cutler belong ahead of him. And this is exluding injured QB's (Romo, Stafford), who if healthy, would likely also be ranked ahead of VY.So, at best, excluding injured QB's, VY is the 16th best QB in the league. With 32 starting QB's, I'm pretty sure that puts him at just about average.

i dont have a problem with this ranking (tho lolololol at favre who is one of the worst.) i dont like that interpretation of "average" tho. to me, positive means he helps his team win when on the field, average means he neither helps nor hurts and negative obv means he hurts his team on the field. i think its very likely that vince young has been a positive contributor to his team when playing, for this year and the last. his other seasons are likely negatives.think of it this way, if the distribution of starting qbs was 15 on mannings/brady/goat level, and then schaub, and then 16 on derek andersons level, it wouldnt be a sufficient representation to value hypothetical schaub as "average." he would be pretty damn valuable.

 

[cvnpoka]

I remember the days when there were David Carr backers, David Garrard backers, even J-fat Russell backers. Guys who had no chance of taking a team to the big dance. I'm always right when it comes to QB evaluation. Great scouting can see suckage miles away. Some people can't see it but eventually they have no option but to admit it. There are always plenty of excuses. Carr backers lead the league as they blamed the HC, the OC, the WR's the OL. Year after year, these scapegoats would be upgraded. Year after year, the same results. Eventually it all had to come back to the real problem.

Fisher is taking care of that. He knows the team is solid. He just needs that final piece of the puzzle. An NFL QB.

its a shame that you are wasting your talent trolling a message board. ya kno, organizations would pay millions for such infallibility.the difference between young and those other clowns is that he has gotten better every year in the league and recently has performed orders of magnitude better on a per pass basis.

 

[Wilbur Wood]

Heard an inteview with Jay Glazer today.

He portrayed Vince Young as a diva, a WR-attitude, but playing the QB position. Does not work hard at all like Jamarcus and pre-prison Vick in Atlanta. His lack of work ethic is a bone of contention with teammates. He probably needs to get tossed out on the street to maybe "get it" or perhaps never will and then will be out of the NFL in 2 to 3 years.

Have heard similar stuff from Titan beat writers and Peter King as well.

 

[bean]

Someone really needs to do a poll of NFL QBs re: their work schedule. King and company refer to VY as a 9-5 QB, but never give a point of reference for comparison.

I'm still waiting for someone to explain how this lazy, stupid, diva managed to post greatly improved stats without working harder.

 

[FUBAR]

And I was saying Vince Young behaves this was and IS a successful quarterback.

We define success in very different ways apparently. No doubt the guy does pretty well when he plays even if it is in an unconventional way. Problem is, the baseline for "success" is giving people reason to have faith in you as a person, leader and player. Vince is failing the first two.

Why do they need to love the guy? I'm not calling him a role model. I'm saying he's successful on the football field. Nowhere else. But considering he's a football player, that's really the only are I care about. I don't care if he has a hard time spelling his own name. I don't care if the other players regard him as a whiny immature toolbag. Even his own teammates should realize no matter how much of a brat he is, he's also the guy that can, and does, win the team football games.I've had plenty of bosses I didn't like but I knew they were damned good at their job. It's the same thing here.

Love? I don't care if they love him, I'm talking about being counted on by your teammates. I presume your boss didn't throw temper tantrums in front of your clients.

 

[FavreCo]

I remember the days when there were David Carr backers, David Garrard backers, even J-fat Russell backers. Guys who had no chance of taking a team to the big dance. I'm always right when it comes to QB evaluation. Great scouting can see suckage miles away. Some people can't see it but eventually they have no option but to admit it. There are always plenty of excuses. Carr backers lead the league as they blamed the HC, the OC, the WR's the OL. Year after year, these scapegoats would be upgraded. Year after year, the same results. Eventually it all had to come back to the real problem.

Fisher is taking care of that. He knows the team is solid. He just needs that final piece of the puzzle. An NFL QB.

its a shame that you are wasting your talent trolling a message board. ya kno, organizations would pay millions for such infallibility.the difference between young and those other clowns is that he has gotten better every year in the league and recently has performed orders of magnitude better on a per pass basis.

Or is the team around him better. They do boast a top 5 if not the #1 OL. A running back that can score on any play. A candyass 2nd half of the 2009 season. Maybe he is along for the ride. Ever think of that? Yes they did beat Philly this year. Oh, wait, that was Kerry Collins that beat Philly. Beat the Giants. Oh, wait, Eli handed them the game. Beat Jax. oops, there's Kerry Collins again. Lately he has been racking up losses.

 

[FUBAR]

And I was saying Vince Young behaves this was and IS a successful quarterback.

We define success in very different ways apparently. No doubt the guy does pretty well when he plays even if it is in an unconventional way. Problem is, the baseline for "success" is giving people reason to have faith in you as a person, leader and player. Vince is failing the first two.

It's interesting that none of these deficiencies that people cite regarding Vince Young are never manifest on the field. They don't result in losses, they don't result in turnovers, they don't result in an inability to move the ball or put up points--they only come out (after the fact) when Fisher benches Young.

you do realize he has as many INTs as TDs, right? And almost as many fumbles - 38 for his career. Out of the top 10 scoring teams, only Houston has less passing TDs, and Vince has zero rushing TDs this year. I like what he brings when he has his head together, but you cannot have a QB with these mental issues. I was willing to forgive and forget the 2008 stuff but a second time and he's got to go.

 

[FavreCo]

Someone really needs to do a poll of NFL QBs re: their work schedule. King and company refer to VY as a 9-5 QB, but never give a point of reference for comparison. I'm still waiting for someone to explain how this lazy, stupid, diva managed to post greatly improved stats without working harder.

Hell I don't know. Trent Dilfer rode a defense to a SuperBowl win. Being surrounded by talent can mask suckage. Dilfer probably ddin't even need to show up except for game time on that team.

 

[FavreCo]

And I was saying Vince Young behaves this was and IS a successful quarterback.

We define success in very different ways apparently. No doubt the guy does pretty well when he plays even if it is in an unconventional way. Problem is, the baseline for "success" is giving people reason to have faith in you as a person, leader and player. Vince is failing the first two.

It's interesting that none of these deficiencies that people cite regarding Vince Young are never manifest on the field. They don't result in losses, they don't result in turnovers, they don't result in an inability to move the ball or put up points--they only come out (after the fact) when Fisher benches Young.

you do realize he has as many INTs as TDs, right? And almost as many fumbles - 38 for his career. Out of the top 10 scoring teams, only Houston has less passing TDs, and Vince has zero rushing TDs this year. I like what he brings when he has his head together, but you cannot have a QB with these mental issues. I was willing to forgive and forget the 2008 stuff but a second time and he's got to go.

I'm going to jump to the wrong side of the fence and take this question.Um, he's 10-3 this year on TD-INT ratio. Marked improvement. All due to his skillfulness. He doesn't ahve to run. The OL opens gaping holes for Chris Johnson. That was easy.

 

[Dr. Awesome]

And I was saying Vince Young behaves this was and IS a successful quarterback.

We define success in very different ways apparently. No doubt the guy does pretty well when he plays even if it is in an unconventional way. Problem is, the baseline for "success" is giving people reason to have faith in you as a person, leader and player. Vince is failing the first two.

Why do they need to love the guy? I'm not calling him a role model. I'm saying he's successful on the football field. Nowhere else. But considering he's a football player, that's really the only are I care about. I don't care if he has a hard time spelling his own name. I don't care if the other players regard him as a whiny immature toolbag. Even his own teammates should realize no matter how much of a brat he is, he's also the guy that can, and does, win the team football games.I've had plenty of bosses I didn't like but I knew they were damned good at their job. It's the same thing here.

Love? I don't care if they love him, I'm talking about being counted on by your teammates. I presume your boss didn't throw temper tantrums in front of your clients.

He's 30-17. When he doesn't start they're 14-15. If they can't count on him to win the football game then that's on them. If the boss threw tantrums and still did his job well I'd call him an immature diva (which VY certainly appears to be) but I'd know I could count on him in at least one area.Is Vince a man amongst men? Nope. Is he a team leader? Nope. Is he a role model for children, or incoming rookies on the team? Again, no.Is he a good quarterback that gives his team the best chance to win? Yes. And when you play football, aren't you playing to win games?If y'all want to get rid of him because he doesn't have the right team spirit/mentality then okay. I don't necessarily agree but I at least understand. But to say you should dump him because he isn't that good? Well, that's just wrong.

 

[bean]

Hell I don't know. Trent Dilfer rode a defense to a SuperBowl win. Being surrounded by talent can mask suckage. Dilfer probably ddin't even need to show up except for game time on that team.

If KC/Rusty Smith/Chris Simms manage to post #'s as impressive as VY's, we can safely assume you're right. But I don't believe that will happen and I'm confident FBO and the other numbers will bear that out.

 

[FUBAR]

And I was saying Vince Young behaves this was and IS a successful quarterback.

We define success in very different ways apparently. No doubt the guy does pretty well when he plays even if it is in an unconventional way. Problem is, the baseline for "success" is giving people reason to have faith in you as a person, leader and player. Vince is failing the first two.

It's interesting that none of these deficiencies that people cite regarding Vince Young are never manifest on the field. They don't result in losses, they don't result in turnovers, they don't result in an inability to move the ball or put up points--they only come out (after the fact) when Fisher benches Young.

you do realize he has as many INTs as TDs, right? And almost as many fumbles - 38 for his career. Out of the top 10 scoring teams, only Houston has less passing TDs, and Vince has zero rushing TDs this year. I like what he brings when he has his head together, but you cannot have a QB with these mental issues. I was willing to forgive and forget the 2008 stuff but a second time and he's got to go.

I'm going to jump to the wrong side of the fence and take this question.Um, he's 10-3 this year on TD-INT ratio. Marked improvement. All due to his skillfulness. He doesn't ahve to run. The OL opens gaping holes for Chris Johnson. That was easy.

I'm talking about his career. Let's assume for the sake of this specific argument that he was performing admirably on the field, with his mental issues, I still don't want him on my team.

 

[cvnpoka]

He's 30-17. When he doesn't start they're 14-15. If they can't count on him to win the football game then that's on them. If the boss threw tantrums and still did his job well I'd call him an immature diva (which VY certainly appears to be) but I'd know I could count on him in at least one area.Is Vince a man amongst men? Nope. Is he a team leader? Nope. Is he a role model for children, or incoming rookies on the team? Again, no.Is he a good quarterback that gives his team the best chance to win? Yes. And when you play football, aren't you playing to win games?If y'all want to get rid of him because he doesn't have the right team spirit/mentality then okay. I don't necessarily agree but I at least understand. But to say you should dump him because he isn't that good? Well, that's just wrong.

agree with this post. very good summation.

 

[guderian]

I remember the days when there were David Carr backers, David Garrard backers, even J-fat Russell backers. Guys who had no chance of taking a team to the big dance. I'm always right when it comes to QB evaluation. Great scouting can see suckage miles away. Some people can't see it but eventually they have no option but to admit it. There are always plenty of excuses. Carr backers lead the league as they blamed the HC, the OC, the WR's the OL. Year after year, these scapegoats would be upgraded. Year after year, the same results. Eventually it all had to come back to the real problem. Fisher is taking care of that. He knows the team is solid. He just needs that final piece of the puzzle. An NFL QB.

Outside of Carr having a losing record and horrible stats, they're exactly the same...and where are they going to get this "NFL QB" that you seek? They won't get better than the 3rd QB in the draft and the FA QB market is quite thin this year.

You start throwing #### against the wall and hope it sticks. Young slides to the bottom. Time to see if Rusty Smith sticks. If he doesn't move on. Fitzpatrcik is playing pretty damn well for a horrific Buffalo team. They are out there.

I agree that sans Young and with the available FA's that they're best strategy is to throw #### against the wall and hope it sticks and hope Rusty Smith is the next Ryan Fitzpatrick.

 

[guderian]

I'm talking about his career. Let's assume for the sake of this specific argument that he was performing admirably on the field, with his mental issues, I still don't want him on my team.

So you dump a guy who has a 10/3 TD/INT ratio and 100 QB rating now because he was shaky his first two seasons?

 

[FUBAR]

And I was saying Vince Young behaves this was and IS a successful quarterback.

We define success in very different ways apparently. No doubt the guy does pretty well when he plays even if it is in an unconventional way. Problem is, the baseline for "success" is giving people reason to have faith in you as a person, leader and player. Vince is failing the first two.

Why do they need to love the guy? I'm not calling him a role model. I'm saying he's successful on the football field. Nowhere else. But considering he's a football player, that's really the only are I care about. I don't care if he has a hard time spelling his own name. I don't care if the other players regard him as a whiny immature toolbag. Even his own teammates should realize no matter how much of a brat he is, he's also the guy that can, and does, win the team football games.I've had plenty of bosses I didn't like but I knew they were damned good at their job. It's the same thing here.

Love? I don't care if they love him, I'm talking about being counted on by your teammates. I presume your boss didn't throw temper tantrums in front of your clients.

He's 30-17. When he doesn't start they're 14-15. If they can't count on him to win the football game then that's on them. If the boss threw tantrums and still did his job well I'd call him an immature diva (which VY certainly appears to be) but I'd know I could count on him in at least one area.Is Vince a man amongst men? Nope. Is he a team leader? Nope. Is he a role model for children, or incoming rookies on the team? Again, no.Is he a good quarterback that gives his team the best chance to win? Yes. And when you play football, aren't you playing to win games?If y'all want to get rid of him because he doesn't have the right team spirit/mentality then okay. I don't necessarily agree but I at least understand. But to say you should dump him because he isn't that good? Well, that's just wrong.

Your boss would be a mess and probably fired if he threw tantrums in front of clients, he would not be doing his job well. I know my various bosses wouldn't make it through the day and certainly wouldn't have made it as far as they have with these issues. The fact that he breaks down with some adversity is enough to negate anything he does on the field. I was enjoying this year, I thought he had come through adversity and was showing his maturity, this is disapointing to me and maybe that's some of my dislike here, but I absolutely need my QB to be able to make it through "challenges". As I stated before, the first time we deal with, this time should be the end for him in Nashville.

 

[Bri]

Tom BradyPeyton Manning

I wouldn't be so sure of eliminating them.They ARE the focus of this CBA as much as Reggie White once was of the CBA that triggered this new era of free agency.

 

[FUBAR]

I'm talking about his career. Let's assume for the sake of this specific argument that he was performing admirably on the field, with his mental issues, I still don't want him on my team.

So you dump a guy who has a 10/3 TD/INT ratio and 100 QB rating now because he was shaky his first two seasons?

Dumping him now has nothing to do with stats, I just used the stats to respond to the "he doesn't have turnovers" comment. Now it's about his lack of maturity despite being given a second chance.

 

[gotexansgo]

why does everyone throw out the 10/3 TD/Int ratio but leave out the 4 fumbles? do they not count as turnovers anymore?

 

[Jewell]

From ESPN: After reflecting upon the tumultuous events of Sunday's overtime loss that culminated with him walking out on the Titans, quarterback Vince Young texted coach Jeff Fisher with an apology Tuesday for his actions and words.Fisher confirmed for reporters Wednesday that he received the text, which came a day after Young was asked to leave the Titans' facility because he was not welcome at a team meeting.Asked if Fisher rather would have the apology occur face to face, the coach said, "You guys draw that conclusion.""I'm not a real big text guy. I'm not really into this new-age stuff," Fisher said. "I don't Twitter or tweet. But I think face to face is a man thing, OK?"Asked if a text was better than no apology at all, Fisher said: "Someone could have grabbed his phone."

 

[Dr. Awesome]

From ESPN: After reflecting upon the tumultuous events of Sunday's overtime loss that culminated with him walking out on the Titans, quarterback Vince Young texted coach Jeff Fisher with an apology Tuesday for his actions and words.

Fisher confirmed for reporters Wednesday that he received the text, which came a day after Young was asked to leave the Titans' facility because he was not welcome at a team meeting.

Asked if Fisher rather would have the apology occur face to face, the coach said, "You guys draw that conclusion."

"I'm not a real big text guy. I'm not really into this new-age stuff," Fisher said. "I don't Twitter or tweet. But I think face to face is a man thing, OK?"

Asked if a text was better than no apology at all, Fisher said: "Someone could have grabbed his phone."

Yet he couldn't go face to face with Vince to tell him he's not welcome at the team facility? They're both acting like children.

 

[the hairy scotsman]

From ESPN: After reflecting upon the tumultuous events of Sunday's overtime loss that culminated with him walking out on the Titans, quarterback Vince Young texted coach Jeff Fisher with an apology Tuesday for his actions and words.

Fisher confirmed for reporters Wednesday that he received the text, which came a day after Young was asked to leave the Titans' facility because he was not welcome at a team meeting.

Asked if Fisher rather would have the apology occur face to face, the coach said, "You guys draw that conclusion."

"I'm not a real big text guy. I'm not really into this new-age stuff," Fisher said. "I don't Twitter or tweet. But I think face to face is a man thing, OK?"

Asked if a text was better than no apology at all, Fisher said: "Someone could have grabbed his phone."

Yet he couldn't go face to face with Vince to tell him he's not welcome at the team facility? They're both acting like children.

Yeah, face-to-face is real big with the guy who informs his qb of things through his agent and who trashes him in the media every chance he gets. OK.

 

[FUBAR]

From ESPN: After reflecting upon the tumultuous events of Sunday's overtime loss that culminated with him walking out on the Titans, quarterback Vince Young texted coach Jeff Fisher with an apology Tuesday for his actions and words.

Fisher confirmed for reporters Wednesday that he received the text, which came a day after Young was asked to leave the Titans' facility because he was not welcome at a team meeting.

Asked if Fisher rather would have the apology occur face to face, the coach said, "You guys draw that conclusion."

"I'm not a real big text guy. I'm not really into this new-age stuff," Fisher said. "I don't Twitter or tweet. But I think face to face is a man thing, OK?"

Asked if a text was better than no apology at all, Fisher said: "Someone could have grabbed his phone."

Yet he couldn't go face to face with Vince to tell him he's not welcome at the team facility? They're both acting like children.

Yeah, face-to-face is real big with the guy who informs his qb of things through his agent and who trashes him in the media every chance he gets. OK.

Didn't he have an assistant coach talk to him?the media thing, ok.

 

[the hairy scotsman]

From ESPN: After reflecting upon the tumultuous events of Sunday's overtime loss that culminated with him walking out on the Titans, quarterback Vince Young texted coach Jeff Fisher with an apology Tuesday for his actions and words.

Fisher confirmed for reporters Wednesday that he received the text, which came a day after Young was asked to leave the Titans' facility because he was not welcome at a team meeting.

Asked if Fisher rather would have the apology occur face to face, the coach said, "You guys draw that conclusion."

"I'm not a real big text guy. I'm not really into this new-age stuff," Fisher said. "I don't Twitter or tweet. But I think face to face is a man thing, OK?"

Asked if a text was better than no apology at all, Fisher said: "Someone could have grabbed his phone."

Yet he couldn't go face to face with Vince to tell him he's not welcome at the team facility? They're both acting like children.

Yeah, face-to-face is real big with the guy who informs his qb of things through his agent and who trashes him in the media every chance he gets. OK.

Didn't he have an assistant coach talk to him?the media thing, ok.

Yeah, I believe Fish informed VY's agent, Tom Condon, when he put him on IR.

 

[cvnpoka]

fisher sending an assistant to talk to him could be considered a smart move to avoid a public incident with the team present.

 

[Hairy Snowman]

Jeff Fisher handled this perfectly. This is HIS team and he just made that point very clear to VY.

VY will be back with the team next year. Hopefully a little more mature. He is already reacting positively to the "tough love."

PS VY still has a couple of years worth of seasoning to go before he can read defenses completely (and thereby have complete command of the offense). My understanding is that he still struggles with translating what he sees in the filmroom to the field. One more year should do him good.

 

[fatness]

Time to see if Rusty Smith sticks.

Redskin radio reporters were calling him Rusty Smith, Intern Quarterback after the game last week.

 

[fatness]

I'm always right when it comes to QB evaluation.

You bashed Josh Freeman as worse than Josh Johnson.

 

[FUBAR]

fisher sending an assistant to talk to him could be considered a smart move to avoid a public incident with the team present.

Things are probably different in the NFL, but it seems to me that Dowell Loggains and maybe Dinger are the right guys to do this anyway.

 

[NJJets]

Time to see if Rusty Smith sticks.

Redskin radio reporters were calling him Rusty Smith, Intern Quarterback after the game last week.

Rusty is only going to play until KC is healthy (Unless he get on a major win streak)

 

[FUBAR]

http://www.sportsnet.ca/football/nfl/2010/...ans_young_home/

Fisher said Young is on injured reserve, and that such players are permitted in the building. Players on injured reserve work with team trainers on their rehabilitation.

"There's been speculation he was banned from the building. That was not correct," said Fisher, who added that he would not address Young's situation again after Tuesday night.

Young could not be immediately reached Tuesday, nor his agent, Tom Condon, who was travelling and unavailable.

The statement Tuesday called the first report by The Tennessean "incorrect." The Tennessean, citing unidentified sources, said Young was in the training room Monday when asked to leave the facility by the quarterbacks coach and told he wasn't wanted in the building after what happened Sunday. The newspaper said Young left without incident.

Even if he was asked to leave, it was by Loggains who should have the closer relationship with his QB anyway. Are all of you really upset that a QB coach was (if the story were true) the guy to talk with his QB?