Vincent Jackson vs Sydney Rice (1 Viewer)

[RudeDog]

In most leagues these 2 will be rostered already awaiting their returns, Short roster leagues though require a bit more critical thought or even hope that they will be valuable come playoff time. Lets tale a closer look and see who has the best chance of helping a short roster league team.

Vincent at first seems physically to be the easy choice here as he has been able to keep in better shape during his extended absence however he has other organization problems to deal with. San Diego ownership has a history of treating players poorly when disagreements occur as he has already experienced. The question becomes, will he be given the opportunity to make a difference? Rivers is on pace to shatter the single season yardage record with the makeshift crew he has worked with to date (granted he has had a healthy Gates until last week). The organization may continue punitive actions against him by limiting his opportunities upon his return. Granted this seems unlikely as they want to make the playoffs and perform well there, but the Chargers organization has done strange things before with players.

His playoff schedule does look pretty juicy though with KC, SF, CIN and DEN to close out his schedule. If management is over their punitive course of action with him he is definately worth a short roster spot.

Sydney on the other hand has a whole different set of problems to consider. We all know about the hip surgery and his limited ability to physically rehab. He will be substantially out of football shape which will limit his playing time. In this case though we know he will be limited and do not have to guess. The question is will this limitation just be endurance wise, which will just limit the number of plays he can participate in or will he not be able to go 100% even on a reduced workload. According to reports he still has not fully participated in practice which is a big red flag. Will he be ready and practicing by week 12 is the major question. Additionally, will he still have the same rapport with Favre after such a long absence.

His playoff schedule is not nearly as favorable as Jackson;s. Sydney ends up with NYG, CHI, PHI and DET.

If I had to choose between the 2 right now for a short roster league I would have to opt for Jackson on the gamble that he will be utilized to his fullest as they fight to make the playoffs. Rice just physically will be too limited upon his return to risk rostering in your short roster league.

 

[VICK-tory]

I think both VJ and Rice could be huge in wk 12-14 when fantasy playoffs are going on.

 

[Sundog]

I'm a Vikings homer, so discount this as appropriate... but I'm picking Rice up and stashing him on my roster. He and Favre were magic last year, and I'm hoping they can recapture that magic to some extent.

 

[GoBirds]

Thinking about both as a replacement for Smith (Car) as a WR4, leaning Jackson as a Gates owner to hedge against the chance he doesn't bonce back. Would you guys worry about a WR4 in a start 2 league with Roddy, Calvin, Nicks? No real RB options.

Rice I think will be good too, especially if they can stay in the race.

 

[eraclansing]

Thinking about both as a replacement for Smith (Car) as a WR4, leaning Jackson as a Gates owner to hedge against the chance he doesn't bonce back. Would you guys worry about a WR4 in a start 2 league with Roddy, Calvin, Nicks? No real RB options.Rice I think will be good too, especially if they can stay in the race.

To answer your question, No, I would not worry about a WR4 if I had Nicks, Calvin, and Roddy and only had to play two.

 

[programcell_death]

Well I guess it all depends on if Rice is coming back this week or even anytime soon. I guess we will have a better idea after practice resumes tomorrow. I picked up Rice thinking he might play sooner than VJAX but Im starting to regret that now. As at least VJax is guaranteed to play in week 12. Has anyone heard anything on Rices mobility / availability?

 

[Breesisdaman]

The #1 QB in FF is Rivers, his number 1 WR will be VJ when he returns. Nuff said.

 

[Dr. Awesome]

And where would you rank these guys vs. an underperforming stud like Colston? Or compared to a young guy playing out of his mind like Mike Williams (either one)?

 

[Breesisdaman]

And where would you rank these guys vs. an underperforming stud like Colston? Or compared to a young guy playing out of his mind like Mike Williams (either one)?

I would rank VJ above both of them for sure, Rice I would have to wait and see if he is the same WR that he was before the injury but he has the potential to be above both. Rice and VJ were both top 10 Wr's last year. Rice finished 8th and V.J. finished 10th and they could be elite once they return.

 

[programcell_death]

The #1 QB in FF is Rivers, his number 1 WR will be VJ when he returns. Nuff said.

not to get technical, but I think his #1 is Gates. Then again, I havent number crunched so scold me if Im pulling this out of my butt

 

[nysportsfan]

And where would you rank these guys vs. an underperforming stud like Colston? Or compared to a young guy playing out of his mind like Mike Williams (either one)?

Colston is trending upwards, now top 10 (wout his bye wk) in my PPR. I would rank Colston ahead of Williams, and Vjax at Colston's level depending on quickly he becomes acclimated to the offense. His learning curve is short, but how will be integrate into the offense/be used? At first:ColstonWilliamsVJAXThen:Colston/VJAXWilliams

 

[Breesisdaman]

The #1 QB in FF is Rivers, his number 1 WR will be VJ when he returns. Nuff said.

not to get technical, but I think his #1 is Gates. Then again, I havent number crunched so scold me if Im pulling this out of my butt

This year or last year? This year of coarse he is. Last year they both were studs but Gates wasnt as big a stud last year as he has been this year. I know, I owned him last year.

 

[Louisville Slugger]

I think they both offer huge upside. Their return could change the balance of power in many leagues this season.

 

[Bdub]

And where would you rank these guys vs. an underperforming stud like Colston? Or compared to a young guy playing out of his mind like Mike Williams (either one)?

I would rank VJ above both of them for sure, Rice I would have to wait and see if he is the same WR that he was before the injury but he has the potential to be above both. Rice and VJ were both top 10 Wr's last year. Rice finished 8th and V.J. finished 10th and they could be elite once they return.

Good thread. Both of these guys can really help out our fantasy teams in the playoffs this year. Favre has man love for Rice, and if he's able to go full speed, he's going to get his in a few weeks. VJax is going to erupt. If you hung on to them this long, just wait it out and see what happens soon. No reason not to have either of one them rostered right now.

 

[Breesisdaman]

And where would you rank these guys vs. an underperforming stud like Colston? Or compared to a young guy playing out of his mind like Mike Williams (either one)?

Colston is trending upwards, now top 10 (wout his bye wk) in my PPR. I would rank Colston ahead of Williams, and Vjax at Colston's level depending on quickly he becomes acclimated to the offense. His learning curve is short, but how will be integrate into the offense/be used? At first:ColstonWilliamsVJAXThen:Colston/VJAXWilliams

I agree on Colston but does he lose targets when Reggie returns? There are so many weapons on the Saints and only one ball to go around.

 

[del mar]

Is there any doubt? Who has Rivers and who has Favre (it he is still active by playoff time)?

 

[RespektMyGangsta]

I have both in my dynasty league and I've got VJAX in redraft. I actually drafted Vince as my WR2 in redraft (thinking this wouldve all blown over much earlier in the season). I traded for him in dynasty (gave up a low 1st round pick) a couple of days before his Halloween return to the team was announced.

Actually I'm counting on VJAX to take me to another championship in redraft. He's gonna light it up! He's in great shape and already practicing! He's gonna put alot of guys like me over the top! Rice?, not so much (seems to be rushing back from injury a bit.

 

[knowledge dropper]

VJax. Nobody knows how Rice's hip is going to respond when he starts taking hits and Rivers > Favre.

 

[programcell_death]

I think another variable that has been hinted at but not highlighted here is the fact that if the Vikings lose one or two more games Favre may just shut it down. In that case, Rice's value dwindles rapidly with Tjax at he helm.

IF Favre and company keeps winning and they can carry the momentum over from last week, it (stashing Rice) could turn out to be a good play.

 

[sm8680]

I have both rostered currently as my 4th and 5th receiver. Vincent Jackson is less of a risk due to health, Rivers and should be a top 10 receiver wants he gets going. Rice obviously has the hip to contend with and Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. With Favre you just don't know what your going to get out of him this year. But with the player hate for Chilly and with Rice coming back a part of me really wants to roster Favre. For I can see the Vikes bonding on their mutual dislike for Chilly and making a run for it.

Oh last note the other week I cut one of my favorite players for Rice. Wes Welker who more or less has been tanking. If I can't get quality starts out of a player then why roster the guy. I'm looking for possibly quality starts out of Rice and Jackson once they are in the lineup give or take a game or 2.

 

[yoadrian]

Everybody wants to say VJ will be a beast when he returns but remember he is getting the league minimum $600K from $3.2Million, does not want to be part of the Chargers next year AND has not played all season long. Why would anyone want to perform well under those conditions? I think he will be an unreliable WR3 at best, maybe post WR2 numbers one of the fantasy playoff weeks. Is it worth that risk?

 

[nysportsfan]

And where would you rank these guys vs. an underperforming stud like Colston? Or compared to a young guy playing out of his mind like Mike Williams (either one)?

Colston is trending upwards, now top 10 (wout his bye wk) in my PPR. I would rank Colston ahead of Williams, and Vjax at Colston's level depending on quickly he becomes acclimated to the offense. His learning curve is short, but how will be integrate into the offense/be used? At first:ColstonWilliamsVJAXThen:Colston/VJAXWilliams

I agree on Colston but does he lose targets when Reggie returns? There are so many weapons on the Saints and only one ball to go around.

I think Lance Moore's value suffers more than Colston, as Moore's role resembles Bush's role moreso than Colston. The Saints have seen more success as they've incorporated Colston into the offense. He has seen increased targets but with decreased YPC. The Saints must use their WR1 on more button routes than any other team in the league. Colston runs posts and hook routes very well, and can settle into voids in the zone as well as anyone. This enables Meachem and Henderson to stretch the D, keep Moore/Bush underneath, all while keeping their best WR in a great role. It hurts Colston's value a bit, but helps in PPR leagues as he is running routes that will be more likely to garner points through receptions.I hope I didn't hijack.

 

[sm8680]

Everybody wants to say VJ will be a beast when he returns but remember he is getting the league minimum $600K from $3.2Million, does not want to be part of the Chargers next year AND has not played all season long. Why would anyone want to perform well under those conditions? I think he will be an unreliable WR3 at best, maybe post WR2 numbers one of the fantasy playoff weeks. Is it worth that risk?

He is playing for a contract and has Rivers. So it doesn't benefit him at all to perform poorly and it should be a pride thing. Why do you think he held out so long so that the Chargers couldn't get him on the cheap for this year? While trying to force a trade. Now they got him on the cheap for the minimal amount of games. If VJ doesn't put up 10 plus points in week 12(give or take a week) and on. I'd be suprised.

 

[leronb]

You could just as easily make the opposite argument based on this - he's going to playing these 6 games for his next contract. That certainly doesn't guarantee that he'll produce though (people said the same thing about Randy Moss at the beginning of the year). I can't remember where I read this so take it w/a grain of salt but supposedly VJ is a pretty hard worker, so I'm hoping he does turn out to be worth the risk (just traded Beanie for him, a guy I was sick of)...

Everybody wants to say VJ will be a beast when he returns but remember he is getting the league minimum $600K from $3.2Million, does not want to be part of the Chargers next year AND has not played all season long. Why would anyone want to perform well under those conditions? I think he will be an unreliable WR3 at best, maybe post WR2 numbers one of the fantasy playoff weeks. Is it worth that risk?

 

[leronb]

Some questioned how motivated Jackson would be to give 100 percent on the football field for the remainder of the season, considering that he was willing to abandon his teammates because he was unhappy with his contract.Jackson has always been known as an extremely hard worker, and according to one of his teammates, he has returned to the team with the same work ethic and dedication that turned him into one of the game’s elite receivers.“I know Vincent has been through a lot and he wanted a deal and didn’t get it,” Chargers tight end Antonio Gates said via Kevin Acee of the San Diego Union Tribune. “You can sense the urge of ‘I’m ready to get back on the field.’ I don’t think the contract is going on (in Jackson’s mind), the business side. You get back around it, it’s just natural, you’re ready to get going, ready to play.”

You could just as easily make the opposite argument based on this - he's going to playing these 6 games for his next contract. That certainly doesn't guarantee that he'll produce though (people said the same thing about Randy Moss at the beginning of the year). I can't remember where I read this so take it w/a grain of salt but supposedly VJ is a pretty hard worker, so I'm hoping he does turn out to be worth the risk (just traded Beanie for him, a guy I was sick of)...

Everybody wants to say VJ will be a beast when he returns but remember he is getting the league minimum $600K from $3.2Million, does not want to be part of the Chargers next year AND has not played all season long. Why would anyone want to perform well under those conditions? I think he will be an unreliable WR3 at best, maybe post WR2 numbers one of the fantasy playoff weeks. Is it worth that risk?

 

[yoadrian]

The other end of this is, will the coaches even want to play VJ on most snaps? The way I hear it, so far VJ has been used mostly as a practice dummy rather than a WR1. If Gates is out, it might be tempting to put him in otherwise it seems pretty risky

 

[Dr. Octopus]

VJax. Nobody knows how Rice's hip is going to respond when he starts taking hits and Rivers > Favre.

Not a difficult choice here.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

The other end of this is, will the coaches even want to play VJ on most snaps? The way I hear it, so far VJ has been used mostly as a practice dummy rather than a WR1. If Gates is out, it might be tempting to put him in otherwise it seems pretty risky

If they want to make the playoffs and keep their jobs, they will.

 

[JamesTheScot]

The #1 QB in FF is Rivers, his number 1 WR will be VJ when he returns. Nuff said.

This.Who knows if Rice can play more than a handful of snaps his first couple of games back. The guy has been on crutches most of the season IIRC. So he has the whole conditioning/getting into game shape hurdle that Jackson (hopefully) doesn't have to fight.Once you get past that health disparity, you still have the surrounding cast to consider. I take Rivers every day over Favre. If you ever needed clearer proof as to which QB is playing better, you need look no further than to the fact that Rivers is playing lights out with practice squad fodder on the other end of his passes while people are using the lack of Rice to explain the poor play of Favre.That said, I'm not high on either guy coming back this late in the season. But between the two, I think it's Jackson going away. I like Rice a lot, but that injury recovery issue is huge in my mind for 2010.

 

[FFdork]

The other end of this is, will the coaches even want to play VJ on most snaps? The way I hear it, so far VJ has been used mostly as a practice dummy rather than a WR1. If Gates is out, it might be tempting to put him in otherwise it seems pretty risky

If they want to make the playoffs and keep their jobs, they will.

Agree. You see this kind of speculation over and over again on fantasy boards, but coaches almost never think this way. The only coaches that would bench Jackson to see their other players are the ones that feel extremely confident in their job security. Otherwise priority #1 is win.Jackson has been used as the guy that pretends to be the other teams #1 WR in practice, but that's because he had no chance of playing in those games.

I believe Norv is already on record saying he will use him early and often when he gets back.

Oh, to the original question: I like them both, but I think Jackson has a much clearer path to being a starter on your fantasy team. For those remembering the Farve to Rice magic last year, almost nothing about this Vikings team looks the same as last year once you get past the names being the same. Favre isn't playing as well, O-line isn't playing as well, defense isn't playing as well, etc., etc. Rice is still a great gamble to take, but, as I've been writing in other Rice threads, you need to factor in that Favre has pretty much said that he won't play in meaningless game. The Vikings might finally be turning it around, but they're also 1-2 losses from Favre riding his mower back to Mississippi.

 

[FFdork]

And then I just noticed this where Chilly is hedging on when Rice will return. Still think he's a good lottery ticket, but there's a lot of instability in his situation. Would definitely prefer to be holding Jackson right now.

 

[RBM]

Everybody wants to say VJ will be a beast when he returns but remember he is getting the league minimum $600K from $3.2Million, does not want to be part of the Chargers next year AND has not played all season long. Why would anyone want to perform well under those conditions? I think he will be an unreliable WR3 at best, maybe post WR2 numbers one of the fantasy playoff weeks. Is it worth that risk?

Some freakin pride maybe?Anyway, if Rice was healthy I would take him over VJax based on talent, but VJax over Rice based on situation.

Re-draft - VJax

Dynasty - Rice

 

[RedskinsFan]

There is too much wishful thinking going on in this thread about VJ and not enough reality. Politics play a huge part in his playing and how much he plays whether you want to admit that or not. Why in the world would San Deigo want to showcase a player they know is leaving unless they had to? The pick here is Rice. Yes VJ is more healthy (is he in shape we don't know this) but Rice is not in the teams dog house and is expected to come back and perform. VJ only came back because he wants to leave SD, I don't have high expectations for him

 

[Magnum]

In a "total points league" having VJax stashed away could be huge. Even if it took a week or so to really get it going............his point totals though week 17 obvioulsy count (and at this point.......I'm assuming the Chargers will NOT have anything locked up going in to week 17).

 

[Magnum]

There is too much wishful thinking going on in this thread about VJ and not enough reality. Politics play a huge part in his playing and how much he plays whether you want to admit that or not. Why in the world would San Deigo want to showcase a player they know is leaving unless they had to? The pick here is Rice. Yes VJ is more healthy (is he in shape we don't know this) but Rice is not in the teams dog house and is expected to come back and perform. VJ only came back because he wants to leave SD, I don't have high expectations for him

AJ, Norv, and the rest of the Chargers organization want to make the playoffs. Enough said.

 

[programcell_death]

There is too much wishful thinking going on in this thread about VJ and not enough reality. Politics play a huge part in his playing and how much he plays whether you want to admit that or not. Why in the world would San Deigo want to showcase a player they know is leaving unless they had to? The pick here is Rice. Yes VJ is more healthy (is he in shape we don't know this) but Rice is not in the teams dog house and is expected to come back and perform. VJ only came back because he wants to leave SD, I don't have high expectations for him

interesting angle. there isnt much diversity in this thread, thx for bringing another flavor

 

[programcell_death]

There is too much wishful thinking going on in this thread about VJ and not enough reality. Politics play a huge part in his playing and how much he plays whether you want to admit that or not. Why in the world would San Deigo want to showcase a player they know is leaving unless they had to? The pick here is Rice. Yes VJ is more healthy (is he in shape we don't know this) but Rice is not in the teams dog house and is expected to come back and perform. VJ only came back because he wants to leave SD, I don't have high expectations for him

AJ, Norv, and the rest of the Chargers organization want to make the playoffs. Enough said.

he could be more of a decoy ala OchoCinco?its not like they werent getting production from the passing game before

 

[RedskinsFan]

There is too much wishful thinking going on in this thread about VJ and not enough reality. Politics play a huge part in his playing and how much he plays whether you want to admit that or not. Why in the world would San Deigo want to showcase a player they know is leaving unless they had to? The pick here is Rice. Yes VJ is more healthy (is he in shape we don't know this) but Rice is not in the teams dog house and is expected to come back and perform. VJ only came back because he wants to leave SD, I don't have high expectations for him

AJ, Norv, and the rest of the Chargers organization want to make the playoffs. Enough said.

Oh please It's not that simple and this is not a case of VJ not having talent. He is the best WR on the team. However I can't see the Chargers going back to the way they used VJ in the past knowing full well what's gone on. VJ is only there now because he wants to leave the organization. He will be auditioning for his next ball club the rest of the season and wants no part of San Deigo. He's not being welcomed back with open arms and this is a business so why would he risk playing hard going over the middle and potential injury just so a team he doesn't want to be a part of can make the playoffs? And why would San Deigo want to waste the rest of the year showcasing a player they don't expect back and leave open the questions of who replaces him in 2011? The best interest of the team is to barely use VJ if at all and showcase Tutu or Floyd so fans don't get pissed when VJ finds a new team next year.To ignore all of this is foolish just because the team wants to make the playoffs. This wouldn't be the first time that teams sat the best player because of off the field issues. To me this is a huge risky play at the time of year when you don't want to start risks. When it comes to Rice vs VJ the answer is clear. You go with the guy who's teams praying helps turn the season around and no one is thinking like that in San Deigo. The bye week couldn't have come at a worse time then this week if your a VJ owner. Players hurt are getting healthy and that limits him getting on the field. In the perfect situation VJ is forgiven and used like he should be. I just don't believe in perfect situations and there are way too many questions about this then to be certain the better play this year is VJ

 

[RedskinsFan]

There is too much wishful thinking going on in this thread about VJ and not enough reality. Politics play a huge part in his playing and how much he plays whether you want to admit that or not. Why in the world would San Deigo want to showcase a player they know is leaving unless they had to? The pick here is Rice. Yes VJ is more healthy (is he in shape we don't know this) but Rice is not in the teams dog house and is expected to come back and perform. VJ only came back because he wants to leave SD, I don't have high expectations for him

AJ, Norv, and the rest of the Chargers organization want to make the playoffs. Enough said.

he could be more of a decoy ala OchoCinco?its not like they werent getting production from the passing game before

This to me is important. They haven't had VJ all year yet the QB is in discussions for MVP because it seems no matter who he throws to he gets them the ball. If you had a player like VJ who has so much talent but holds out and creates a distraction for the team and wants to leave why would you ignore the good players who don't act like this and are grateful to the organization take a back seat so the distraction gets his way? I have no doubt that VJ wants to be the focal point of the offense when he gets back, I have serious doubts that the Chargers will give him what he wants. And this isn't a discussion about who is the more talented player, it's a discussion about who's the better fantasy performer this season. And to me the feeling about VJ and SR are completely different. One guys welcomed back and called the savior, the others looked at like a selfish greedy me-first-before-the-team player.

 

[FFdork]

There is too much wishful thinking going on in this thread about VJ and not enough reality. Politics play a huge part in his playing and how much he plays whether you want to admit that or not. Why in the world would San Deigo want to showcase a player they know is leaving unless they had to? The pick here is Rice. Yes VJ is more healthy (is he in shape we don't know this) but Rice is not in the teams dog house and is expected to come back and perform. VJ only came back because he wants to leave SD, I don't have high expectations for him

AJ, Norv, and the rest of the Chargers organization want to make the playoffs. Enough said.

Oh please It's not that simple and this is not a case of VJ not having talent. He is the best WR on the team. However I can't see the Chargers going back to the way they used VJ in the past knowing full well what's gone on. VJ is only there now because he wants to leave the organization. He will be auditioning for his next ball club the rest of the season and wants no part of San Deigo. He's not being welcomed back with open arms and this is a business so why would he risk playing hard going over the middle and potential injury just so a team he doesn't want to be a part of can make the playoffs? And why would San Deigo want to waste the rest of the year showcasing a player they don't expect back and leave open the questions of who replaces him in 2011? The best interest of the team is to barely use VJ if at all and showcase Tutu or Floyd so fans don't get pissed when VJ finds a new team next year.To ignore all of this is foolish just because the team wants to make the playoffs. This wouldn't be the first time that teams sat the best player because of off the field issues. To me this is a huge risky play at the time of year when you don't want to start risks. When it comes to Rice vs VJ the answer is clear. You go with the guy who's teams praying helps turn the season around and no one is thinking like that in San Deigo. I'm not saying this is a fact but as I discribed this I wouldn't doubt it happens. The bye week couldn't have come at a worse time then this week if your a VJ owner. Players hurt are getting healthy and that limits him getting on the field.

I hear what you're saying, but Jackson's issues are basically with AJ Smith. He is reportedly a hard worker at practice. I've heard nothing about him being a problem since he returned. If The Lord of No Rings has a say in playing time, I could totally see them telling V-jax he's playing special teams and backing up Floyd because that's the kind of guy Smith seems to be. As far as I know Smith doesn't get to make that call, and Jackson gives them the best chance to win at the WR position. Yes, it wouldn't be the first time a team sat their best player due to off the field issues, but that is still by far the exception rather than the rule (even when the off the field offenses are much more severe than a contract dispute). If we heard Jackson was having '09 Brandon Marshall moments at practice or was out of shape, that would be a huge red flag. I haven't seen anything like that reported, but if anyone does have that kind of info it would be very pertinent to this thread.

 

[Magnum]

There is too much wishful thinking going on in this thread about VJ and not enough reality. Politics play a huge part in his playing and how much he plays whether you want to admit that or not. Why in the world would San Deigo want to showcase a player they know is leaving unless they had to? The pick here is Rice. Yes VJ is more healthy (is he in shape we don't know this) but Rice is not in the teams dog house and is expected to come back and perform. VJ only came back because he wants to leave SD, I don't have high expectations for him

AJ, Norv, and the rest of the Chargers organization want to make the playoffs. Enough said.

He will be auditioning for his next ball club the rest of the seasonwhy would he risk playing hard going over the middle

I believe you've answered your own question. BTW.....Rice is BY FAR...the bigger question mark as he's coming back (at SOME???? point in time) from a significant INJURY. Practice reports out of San Diego say VJax is in great shape and looking fantastic.

 

[FFdork]

There is too much wishful thinking going on in this thread about VJ and not enough reality. Politics play a huge part in his playing and how much he plays whether you want to admit that or not. Why in the world would San Deigo want to showcase a player they know is leaving unless they had to? The pick here is Rice. Yes VJ is more healthy (is he in shape we don't know this) but Rice is not in the teams dog house and is expected to come back and perform. VJ only came back because he wants to leave SD, I don't have high expectations for him

AJ, Norv, and the rest of the Chargers organization want to make the playoffs. Enough said.

he could be more of a decoy ala OchoCinco?its not like they werent getting production from the passing game before

This to me is important. They haven't had VJ all year yet the QB is in discussions for MVP because it seems no matter who he throws to he gets them the ball. If you had a player like VJ who has so much talent but holds out and creates a distraction for the team and wants to leave why would you ignore the good players who don't act like this and are grateful to the organization take a back seat so the distraction gets his way? I have no doubt that VJ wants to be the focal point of the offense when he gets back, I have serious doubts that the Chargers will give him what he wants. And this isn't a discussion about who is the more talented player, it's a discussion about who's the better fantasy performer this season. And to me the feeling about VJ and SR are completely different. One guys welcomed back and called the savior, the others looked at like a selfish greedy me-first-before-the-team player.

I read a report from a beat writer from last week, that said Jackson being back at practice was reminding them how big the drop off was after V-Jax and Floyd, and then Rivers came out on Sunday and made some guy who's name I can't spell look like a future HOFer. So what you're telling me is that they're going to start VJ and just send him on fly routes every play with no intention of throwing to him? Or you think that Phillip Rivers is going to drop back and see an open Jackson, but pull the ball down because he's thinking "screw that guy for standing up to the personnel guy we all hate." Look, there are ? about both of these guys (thus, this thread), but it would be nice if people could approach this objectively instead of just writing what they want to see happen based on liking/disliking or owning/not owning a player.

 

[Magnum]

There is too much wishful thinking going on in this thread about VJ and not enough reality. Politics play a huge part in his playing and how much he plays whether you want to admit that or not. Why in the world would San Deigo want to showcase a player they know is leaving unless they had to? The pick here is Rice. Yes VJ is more healthy (is he in shape we don't know this) but Rice is not in the teams dog house and is expected to come back and perform. VJ only came back because he wants to leave SD, I don't have high expectations for him

AJ, Norv, and the rest of the Chargers organization want to make the playoffs. Enough said.

he could be more of a decoy ala OchoCinco?its not like they werent getting production from the passing game before

This to me is important. They haven't had VJ all year yet the QB is in discussions for MVP because it seems no matter who he throws to he gets them the ball. If you had a player like VJ who has so much talent but holds out and creates a distraction for the team and wants to leave why would you ignore the good players who don't act like this and are grateful to the organization take a back seat so the distraction gets his way? I have no doubt that VJ wants to be the focal point of the offense when he gets back, I have serious doubts that the Chargers will give him what he wants. And this isn't a discussion about who is the more talented player, it's a discussion about who's the better fantasy performer this season. And to me the feeling about VJ and SR are completely different. One guys welcomed back and called the savior, the others looked at like a selfish greedy me-first-before-the-team player.

I read a report from a beat writer from last week, that said Jackson being back at practice was reminding them how big the drop off was after V-Jax and Floyd, and then Rivers came out on Sunday and made some guy who's name I can't spell look like a future HOFer. So what you're telling me is that they're going to start VJ and just send him on fly routes every play with no intention of throwing to him? Or you think that Phillip Rivers is going to drop back and see an open Jackson, but pull the ball down because he's thinking "screw that guy for standing up to the personnel guy we all hate." Look, there are ? about both of these guys (thus, this thread), but it would be nice if people could approach this objectively instead of just writing what they want to see happen based on liking/disliking or owning/not owning a player.

Seriously, you've nailed it.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

There is too much wishful thinking going on in this thread about VJ and not enough reality. Politics play a huge part in his playing and how much he plays whether you want to admit that or not. Why in the world would San Deigo want to showcase a player they know is leaving unless they had to? The pick here is Rice. Yes VJ is more healthy (is he in shape we don't know this) but Rice is not in the teams dog house and is expected to come back and perform. VJ only came back because he wants to leave SD, I don't have high expectations for him

AJ, Norv, and the rest of the Chargers organization want to make the playoffs. Enough said.

Oh please It's not that simple and this is not a case of VJ not having talent. He is the best WR on the team. However I can't see the Chargers going back to the way they used VJ in the past knowing full well what's gone on. VJ is only there now because he wants to leave the organization. He will be auditioning for his next ball club the rest of the season and wants no part of San Deigo. He's not being welcomed back with open arms and this is a business so why would he risk playing hard going over the middle and potential injury just so a team he doesn't want to be a part of can make the playoffs? And why would San Deigo want to waste the rest of the year showcasing a player they don't expect back and leave open the questions of who replaces him in 2011? The best interest of the team is to barely use VJ if at all and showcase Tutu or Floyd so fans don't get pissed when VJ finds a new team next year.To ignore all of this is foolish just because the team wants to make the playoffs. This wouldn't be the first time that teams sat the best player because of off the field issues. To me this is a huge risky play at the time of year when you don't want to start risks. When it comes to Rice vs VJ the answer is clear. You go with the guy who's teams praying helps turn the season around and no one is thinking like that in San Deigo. The bye week couldn't have come at a worse time then this week if your a VJ owner. Players hurt are getting healthy and that limits him getting on the field. In the perfect situation VJ is forgiven and used like he should be. I just don't believe in perfect situations and there are way too many questions about this then to be certain the better play this year is VJ

Last time I checked Norv Turner was the HC and probably wants to keep his job and/or be considered for a futre job opening.Also Phillip Rivers is ultra competitive and the starting QB. Are they going to tell him that Jackson is strictly a decoy so don't throw him the ball? WHat if he does anyway - are they going to bench him then and go with company man Billy Volek.At this point the past is the past. Both sides lost tremndously by making the decisions they did. Its time to move forward and make the best out of all of it. To think otherwise at this point is "sticking your head in the sand".Also Sidney Rice is a FA after this year as well - is Minnesota not going to play him if he comes back healthy because they dn't wnat him auditioning for a big paycheck. Don't forget there were plenty of hard feelings about the timing of his decision to undergo the surgery.

 

[IVNACATES]

The other end of this is, will the coaches even want to play VJ on most snaps? The way I hear it, so far VJ has been used mostly as a practice dummy rather than a WR1. If Gates is out, it might be tempting to put him in otherwise it seems pretty risky

Why would they practice him as a 1 if he's not playing. You have to get the guys who are lining up Sunday the reps in practice. He knows the offense, and he and Rivers already know each other. You practice who is playing, it's that simple!

 

[RudeDog]

Thanks for all the great discussion guys. As I stated in the opening post I think VJ holds the most value here, but I understand there are questions about him being used. I am still willing to replace Welker with him as I think he could be valuable come playoff time.

 

[coachbobbyfinstock]

Everybody wants to say VJ will be a beast when he returns but remember he is getting the league minimum $600K from $3.2Million, does not want to be part of the Chargers next year AND has not played all season long. Why would anyone want to perform well under those conditions? I think he will be an unreliable WR3 at best, maybe post WR2 numbers one of the fantasy playoff weeks. Is it worth that risk?

I disagree. He's not playing for this contract, he's playing for his next contract. He's a FA this offseason and has a lot riding on his performance the rest of the year.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

There are some concerns with VJ: he might be rusty, he might not be in game shape, he might get another DUI, he might spike the ball before the play is over, etc.

But the probability that he won't play hard, or that he won't be immediately featured in the offense, is pretty much zero.

 

[kingsofromance]

The other end of this is, will the coaches even want to play VJ on most snaps? The way I hear it, so far VJ has been used mostly as a practice dummy rather than a WR1. If Gates is out, it might be tempting to put him in otherwise it seems pretty risky

Completely not true. WHERE are you getting this information from??????? A practice dummy? Yeah right. SD wants to make the play offs.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

The other end of this is, will the coaches even want to play VJ on most snaps? The way I hear it, so far VJ has been used mostly as a practice dummy rather than a WR1. If Gates is out, it might be tempting to put him in otherwise it seems pretty risky

Completely not true. WHERE are you getting this information from??????? A practice dummy? Yeah right. SD wants to make the play offs.

He's referring to the week 8 and week 9 practices. Since VJ wasn't in the game plan for those weeks, he played with the scout team. He was Andre Johnson in last week's practices, for example.When he is actually going to play, he'll get reps with the first team. (I don't know whether he'll be the X or the Z.)