Vote 3rd party or you're an idiot!Chris Matthews can suck it. (1 Viewer)

[Ookie Pringle]

Tim that's admirable but you were committed to Hillary before Trump became a factor.

I was. But right now I would be content with Rubio as President. I would be-barely-content with Cruz as President. Anyone but Trump.

not surprised by much of this. Only that you think cruz is better than trump. That's scary

Cruz is a far right conservative, a tea party type, and the sort of extremist I've been opposed to my entire life. Yet he falls within our political system. He believes in the Constirution, he clerked for a Supreme Court justice. He would do damage to many of the causes I believe in, and then in 4 years he would be up for re-election.I believe that Donald Trump could impose a dictatorship. I have no idea what he believes in or respects other than himself. He could, after the next terrorist attack, suspend the Constitution, abolish free speech, and declare himself the Leader. And I believe there are plenty of the public that would be willing to go along with him because they don't believe in our institutions any longer, if they ever did. That's where I think we are right now.

Good Lord! Big boy table my ###. This is stuff for the nut house.

 

[timschochet]

Tim, you think Trump is opposed to Wall Street? The one thing I will say is that at least it's more honest with Trump. At least with the Don the thin veneer between Wall Street and Hilkary is ripped away and they just go ahead and put one if their own in the WH instead of maintaining the facade of the Clinton puppet show.

I don't think Trump is opposed to Wall Street, but I think a lot of his fans are.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Ha yeah well they're barking up the wrong tree there.

 

[jon_mx]

Tim that's admirable but you were committed to Hillary before Trump became a factor.

I was. But right now I would be content with Rubio as President. I would be-barely-content with Cruz as President. Anyone but Trump.

not surprised by much of this. Only that you think cruz is better than trump. That's scary

Cruz is a far right conservative, a tea party type, and the sort of extremist I've been opposed to my entire life. Yet he falls within our political system. He believes in the Constirution, he clerked for a Supreme Court justice. He would do damage to many of the causes I believe in, and then in 4 years he would be up for re-election.I believe that Donald Trump could impose a dictatorship. I have no idea what he believes in or respects other than himself. He could, after the next terrorist attack, suspend the Constitution, abolish free speech, and declare himself the Leader. And I believe there are plenty of the public that would be willing to go along with him because they don't believe in our institutions any longer, if they ever did. That's where I think we are right now.

It's official. You've finally lost your tenuous grasp on reality.

Tim is a moderate!

 

[tommyGunZ]

Tim that's admirable but you were committed to Hillary before Trump became a factor.

I was. But right now I would be content with Rubio as President. I would be-barely-content with Cruz as President. Anyone but Trump.

not surprised by much of this. Only that you think cruz is better than trump. That's scary

Cruz is a far right conservative, a tea party type, and the sort of extremist I've been opposed to my entire life. Yet he falls within our political system. He believes in the Constirution, he clerked for a Supreme Court justice. He would do damage to many of the causes I believe in, and then in 4 years he would be up for re-election.I believe that Donald Trump could impose a dictatorship. I have no idea what he believes in or respects other than himself. He could, after the next terrorist attack, suspend the Constitution, abolish free speech, and declare himself the Leader. And I believe there are plenty of the public that would be willing to go along with him because they don't believe in our institutions any longer, if they ever did. That's where I think we are right now.

It's official. You've finally lost your tenuous grasp on reality.

Tim is a moderate!

That's true. You can disagree with Tim, but he's not an extremist.

 

[jon_mx]

Tim that's admirable but you were committed to Hillary before Trump became a factor.

I was. But right now I would be content with Rubio as President. I would be-barely-content with Cruz as President. Anyone but Trump.

not surprised by much of this. Only that you think cruz is better than trump. That's scary

Cruz is a far right conservative, a tea party type, and the sort of extremist I've been opposed to my entire life. Yet he falls within our political system. He believes in the Constirution, he clerked for a Supreme Court justice. He would do damage to many of the causes I believe in, and then in 4 years he would be up for re-election.I believe that Donald Trump could impose a dictatorship. I have no idea what he believes in or respects other than himself. He could, after the next terrorist attack, suspend the Constitution, abolish free speech, and declare himself the Leader. And I believe there are plenty of the public that would be willing to go along with him because they don't believe in our institutions any longer, if they ever did. That's where I think we are right now.

It's official. You've finally lost your tenuous grasp on reality.

Tim is a moderate!

That's true. You can disagree with Tim, but he's not an extremist.

His hatred and fear of the right is about as extreme as they come.

 

[tommyGunZ]

Tim that's admirable but you were committed to Hillary before Trump became a factor.

I was. But right now I would be content with Rubio as President. I would be-barely-content with Cruz as President. Anyone but Trump.

not surprised by much of this. Only that you think cruz is better than trump. That's scary

Cruz is a far right conservative, a tea party type, and the sort of extremist I've been opposed to my entire life. Yet he falls within our political system. He believes in the Constirution, he clerked for a Supreme Court justice. He would do damage to many of the causes I believe in, and then in 4 years he would be up for re-election.I believe that Donald Trump could impose a dictatorship. I have no idea what he believes in or respects other than himself. He could, after the next terrorist attack, suspend the Constitution, abolish free speech, and declare himself the Leader. And I believe there are plenty of the public that would be willing to go along with him because they don't believe in our institutions any longer, if they ever did. That's where I think we are right now.

It's official. You've finally lost your tenuous grasp on reality.

Tim is a moderate!

That's true. You can disagree with Tim, but he's not an extremist.

His hatred and fear of the right is about as extreme as they come.

High? Wasn't he okay with McCain and Romney in the past? And isn't he okay with Rubio now?

 

[timschochet]

I don't hate and fear the Right, jon. Actually I'm not sure I hate anyone.

But I fear populism and demagogues. And it really has nothing to do with political party. I would have been just as fearful of Father Coughlin and Huey Long in the 1930s, and both of them were Democrats.

 

[Rich Conway]

Regarding the "Trump could abolish the Constitution and become a dictator" stance, it's not a left/moderate/right thing, it's a sane/insane thing. It's clearly an insane position.

 

[jon_mx]

Regarding the "Trump could abolish the Constitution and become a dictator" stance, it's not a left/moderate/right thing, it's a sane/insane thing. It's clearly an insane position.

My assumption was that moderates would be more rationale and not be part of the loony fringes on the outer edges. Tim has started repeating some of the rhetoric and fears of the fringe on the far left. He is at least dailing it back a bit and more focused on Trump now. But still, it is clear he has been spending too much time listening to pundants on the whacky fringe.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

HM Scott ‏@haitianhoodoo

Green Party Candidate Jill Stein on Bernie, Hilla…: http://youtu.be/_MMahrBteE8

https://twitter.com/haitianhoodoo/status/682262837847166976

The Green Party’s Dr. Jill Stein is serious about running for president, and taking on the system that drives up student loan debt and healthcare costs, cuts taxes for the rich, promotes endless war while flooding weapons across the Middle East, and bails out the criminals on Wall Street while channeling young African-American males into the school-to-prison pipeline.

In this wide-ranging interview with The Young Turks’ Cenk Uygur, Stein also shares:

- Her plan to drive young people to the polls by promising to eliminate student debt

- Why, as much as she admires Bernie Sanders, the Democratic machine will never let him win

- Her strategy for dealing with ISIS

- The lessons of the Obama presidency

- Her position on Black Lives Matter

- Why no one else will deal with the urgency of the climate crisis

- How her plan for a Green New Deal can turn back the tide against climate

change while providing jobs and promoting a thriving economy

For more information about the Jill Stein candidacy, visit http://www.jill2016.com/

Follow Dr. Stein on Twitter: @DrJillStein

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MMahrBteE8&feature=youtu.be

- Jill Stein actually has the most votes of any female presidential nominee in history.

 

[timschochet]

Regarding the "Trump could abolish the Constitution and become a dictator" stance, it's not a left/moderate/right thing, it's a sane/insane thing. It's clearly an insane position.

My assumption was that moderates would be more rationale and not be part of the loony fringes on the outer edges. Tim has started repeating some of the rhetoric and fears of the fringe on the far left. He is at least dailing it back a bit and more focused on Trump now. But still, it is clear he has been spending too much time listening to pundants on the whacky fringe.

I've been listening to myself on this one (I do that often; I usually find it to be educational, as there's often no smarter person to listen to), and I stand by what I wrote. I don't believe it's likely that Donald Trump would try to create a dictatorship. I think it's a possibility. I don't believe it's likely that if Trump tried to create a dictatorship, he would get away with it. I think that, given a terrorist crisis (especially one that involved nuclear weapons), it's a possibility. I don't think it's a possibility with any other candidate. As far as Trump abrogating the Constitution, he has already proposed doing so at least twice now.

I don't want to find out if any of these possibilities are real. I would rather always be thought of by some of you as insane. I don't want Donald Trump anywhere near the White House.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

Trump vs Hillary. Who's the idiot now?

 

[tom22406]

Trump vs Hillary. Who's the idiot now?

Chris Matthews is always the correct answer since he was the one who opened his pie-hole that got me to start this thread.

I will be voting for 3rd party yet again.

 

[The Commish]

Regarding the "Trump could abolish the Constitution and become a dictator" stance, it's not a left/moderate/right thing, it's a sane/insane thing. It's clearly an insane position.

My assumption was that moderates would be more rationale and not be part of the loony fringes on the outer edges. Tim has started repeating some of the rhetoric and fears of the fringe on the far left. He is at least dailing it back a bit and more focused on Trump now. But still, it is clear he has been spending too much time listening to pundants on the whacky fringe.

I've been listening to myself on this one (I do that often; I usually find it to be educational, as there's often no smarter person to listen to), and I stand by what I wrote. I don't believe it's likely that Donald Trump would try to create a dictatorship. I think it's a possibility. I don't believe it's likely that if Trump tried to create a dictatorship, he would get away with it. I think that, given a terrorist crisis (especially one that involved nuclear weapons), it's a possibility. I don't think it's a possibility with any other candidate. As far as Trump abrogating the Constitution, he has already proposed doing so at least twice now. I don't want to find out if any of these possibilities are real. I would rather always be thought of by some of you as insane. I don't want Donald Trump anywhere near the White House.

 

[Mister CIA]

Idiots Unite!!

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

I don't believe it's likely that Donald Trump would try to create a dictatorship. I think it's a possibility. I don't believe it's likely that if Trump tried to create a dictatorship, he would get away with it.

Maybe it's just a semantic discussion over what qualifies as a dictatorship, but IMO it's pretty clear from Trump's endless string of absurd statements on the campaign trail (he's going to stop all Muslims from entering the U.S., he's going to put a 35% tax on auto parts produced by American companies in Mexico, he admires Putin's treatment of critical journalists, etc.), that he has no intention of being constrained by such petty things as the United Stated Constitution, with its checks and balances, separation of powers, etc. He just wants to do whatever damn thing he wants to do -- precisely like a dictator.

On the other hand, I think it's also pretty clear that he'd have no chance of succeeding in becoming a dictator. If Trump tries to single-handedly repeal NAFTA, say, or the First Amendment, the Supreme Court will not go along with it. In fact, if Trump actually does become President, and if we look for a silver lining in that, it may be that the powers of the executive branch may be suddenly reeled in quite a bit by the other branches of government.

 

[jon_mx]

I don't believe it's likely that Donald Trump would try to create a dictatorship. I think it's a possibility. I don't believe it's likely that if Trump tried to create a dictatorship, he would get away with it.

Maybe it's just a semantic discussion over what qualifies as a dictatorship, but IMO it's pretty clear from Trump's endless string of absurd statements on the campaign trail (he's going to stop all Muslims from entering the U.S., he's going to put a 35% tax on auto parts produced by American companies in Mexico, he admires Putin's treatment of critical journalists, etc.), that he has no intention of being constrained by such petty things as the United Stated Constitution, with its checks and balances, separation of powers, etc. He just wants to do whatever damn thing he wants to do -- precisely like a dictator.

On the other hand, I think it's also pretty clear that he'd have no chance of succeeding in becoming a dictator. If Trump tries to single-handedly repeal NAFTA, say, or the First Amendment, the Supreme Court will not go along with it. In fact, if Trump actually does become President, and if we look for a silver lining in that, it may be that the powers of the executive branch may be suddenly reeled in quite a bit by the other branches of government.

Trump is just ignorant over what he can and can't do. That does not mean he is a wannabe dictactor, just very ignorant.

Now there are numerous examples of Hillary and Obama saying they will do stuff by executive orders, eventhough most scholars think it would be a violation of the constitution. If the right seriously believed they were creating a literal dictatorship. that would be a looney arguement. As is this case that Tim is making for Trump.

 

[joffer]

The "of course Trump is a loon, but Obama..." shtick is awesome.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Michael R. Bloomberg, the billionaire media executive and former New York mayor, was intrigued enough by the prospect of Mr. Trump’s becoming the Republican standard-bearer that he commissioned a poll last month testing how he would fare against Mr. Trump and Mrs. Clinton, according to two sources close to Mr. Bloomberg.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/10/us/politics/for-republicans-mounting-fears-of-lasting-split.html?smid=tw-share&_r=0

 

[tom22406]

I'm glad to see this trend continue

Democratic, Republican Identification Near Historical LowsStory Highlights

• 42% identify as independents, 29% as Democrats, 26% as Republicans
• Independent identification at least 40% for fifth consecutive year
• Democrats maintain edge over GOP in party identification and leaning

In 2015, for the fifth consecutive year, at least four in 10 U.S. adults identified as political independents. The 42% identifying as independents in 2015 was down slightly from the record 43% in 2014. This elevated percentage of political independents leaves Democratic (29%) and Republican (26%) identification at or near recent low points, with the modest Democratic advantage roughly where it has been over the past five years.

Since 1988, when Gallup routinely began conducting polls by telephone, there have been many years in which more Americans have identified as independents than as Republicans or independents. But the percentage of independents did not reach 40% until 2011, and it has stayed at or above that level for the past five years.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/188096/democratic-republican-identification-near-historical-lows.aspx?g_source=Politics&g_medium=newsfeed&g_campaign=tiles

 

[E Street Brat]

What's more likely

A Trump dictatorship

Or

A Ted Cruz win and a two year court battle over his citizenship while Obama continues as interim President.

 

[Steve Tasker]

I'm glad to see this trend continue

####### millennials

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Well.

The first poll featuring a major third party candidate is out.

Poll: Could Bloomberg Win?

Basically Bloomberg would enter at 13%, vs Hillary at 36 & Trump at 37. - IMO that is a really good number to enter with and would have room to grow. I think other serious 3rd party contenders could do this as well, but Bloomberg is a national brand.

One interesting specific number that jumps out is that Hillary and Trump have nearly identical Fav/Unfav numbers, Hillary is at -12 (42/54), and Trump is at -10 (42/52). However Bloomberg is at +4 (30/26) but his main challenge is a lack of name recognition, which I find surprising but there it is.

Right now it's Gary Johnson for me in a Trump/Hillary scenario but I'm all ears and would be open to Bloomberg (yet another NYC megawealthy gazillionaire... but we can talk about that later if he gets in).

 

[Leroy Hoard]

I'm glad to see this trend continue

Democratic, Republican Identification Near Historical Lows
Story Highlights

• 42% identify as independents, 29% as Democrats, 26% as Republicans
• Independent identification at least 40% for fifth consecutive year
• Democrats maintain edge over GOP in party identification and leaning

In 2015, for the fifth consecutive year, at least four in 10 U.S. adults identified as political independents. The 42% identifying as independents in 2015 was down slightly from the record 43% in 2014. This elevated percentage of political independents leaves Democratic (29%) and Republican (26%) identification at or near recent low points, with the modest Democratic advantage roughly where it has been over the past five years.

Since 1988, when Gallup routinely began conducting polls by telephone, there have been many years in which more Americans have identified as independents than as Republicans or independents. But the percentage of independents did not reach 40% until 2011, and it has stayed at or above that level for the past five years.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/188096/democratic-republican-identification-near-historical-lows.aspx?g_source=Politics&g_medium=newsfeed&g_campaign=tiles

 

[Short Corner]

I don't believe it's likely that Donald Trump would try to create a dictatorship. I think it's a possibility. I don't believe it's likely that if Trump tried to create a dictatorship, he would get away with it.

Maybe it's just a semantic discussion over what qualifies as a dictatorship, but IMO it's pretty clear from Trump's endless string of absurd statements on the campaign trail (he's going to stop all Muslims from entering the U.S., he's going to put a 35% tax on auto parts produced by American companies in Mexico, he admires Putin's treatment of critical journalists, etc.), that he has no intention of being constrained by such petty things as the United Stated Constitution, with its checks and balances, separation of powers, etc. He just wants to do whatever damn thing he wants to do -- precisely like a dictator.

On the other hand, I think it's also pretty clear that he'd have no chance of succeeding in becoming a dictator. If Trump tries to single-handedly repeal NAFTA, say, or the First Amendment, the Supreme Court will not go along with it. In fact, if Trump actually does become President, and if we look for a silver lining in that, it may be that the powers of the executive branch may be suddenly reeled in quite a bit by the other branches of government.

He'll have to deal with obstructionists on both sides of the aisle. I fear a Clinton presidency much moreso than Trump

 

[lod01]

I'm glad to see this trend continue

Democratic, Republican Identification Near Historical Lows
Story Highlights

• 42% identify as independents, 29% as Democrats, 26% as Republicans
• Independent identification at least 40% for fifth consecutive year
• Democrats maintain edge over GOP in party identification and leaning

In 2015, for the fifth consecutive year, at least four in 10 U.S. adults identified as political independents. The 42% identifying as independents in 2015 was down slightly from the record 43% in 2014. This elevated percentage of political independents leaves Democratic (29%) and Republican (26%) identification at or near recent low points, with the modest Democratic advantage roughly where it has been over the past five years.

Since 1988, when Gallup routinely began conducting polls by telephone, there have been many years in which more Americans have identified as independents than as Republicans or independents. But the percentage of independents did not reach 40% until 2011, and it has stayed at or above that level for the past five years.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/188096/democratic-republican-identification-near-historical-lows.aspx?g_source=Politics&g_medium=newsfeed&g_campaign=tiles

We will get there if we can stop the stupid from being allowed to breed. That is what is holding us back from turning these 2 parties into dinosaurs.

 

[The Commish]

So, let's brush this one off and get it going again.  This becomes a vote between Hillary and The Donald and you choose to vote anything BUT third party....who's wasting their vote?  This is what our electorate is headed towards and those not participating in that result are those "wasting their vote"?  Really?

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Any new thoughts on who is out there?

Jim Webb said he is out.

There's Gary Johnson.

So far no other serious candidates have stepped forward.

 

[Rich Conway]

Bloomberg?  Maybe?

 

[The Commish]

So, let's brush this one off and get it going again.  This becomes a vote between Hillary and The Donald and you choose to vote anything BUT third party....who's wasting their vote?  This is what our electorate is headed towards and those not participating in that result are those "wasting their vote"?  Really?

For the first time in my voting lifetime, I am lacking the enthusiasm to go vote for a Presidential candidate.  These two choices are the epitome of the most epic reality based gut punch.  This is what it's come to...ouch!

 

[Mister CIA]

Bloomberg?  Maybe?

Bloomberg with Webb to bring foreign policy skills to the dance. If Hillary secures the Dem candidacy, maybe get Bloomberg to commit to a Bernie cause or two (single payor, comprehensive campaign reform come to mind) in exchange for Bernie endorsement

Then get Bernie to recruit some allies in the Senate, and Tulsi in the House, and then were off.

 

[Rove!]

Bloomberg with Webb to bring foreign policy skills to the dance. If Hillary secures the Dem candidacy, maybe get Bloomberg to commit to a Bernie cause or two (single payor, comprehensive campaign reform come to mind) in exchange for Bernie endorsement

Then get Bernie to recruit some allies in the Senate, and Tulsi in the House, and then were off.

That might be an appealing ticket

 

[Steve Tasker]

Any new thoughts on who is out there?

Jim Webb said he is out.

There's Gary Johnson.

So far no other serious candidates have stepped forward.

Jill Stein is running for the Green Party nomination.  Not that she's a "serious candidate" but she's a perfectly capable 3rd party candidate.

 

[The Commish]

Bloomberg with Webb to bring foreign policy skills to the dance. If Hillary secures the Dem candidacy, maybe get Bloomberg to commit to a Bernie cause or two (single payor, comprehensive campaign reform come to mind) in exchange for Bernie endorsement

Then get Bernie to recruit some allies in the Senate, and Tulsi in the House, and then were off.

Seems like a huge pipe dream, but I'm on board

Certainly better than these other two yahoos.

 

[Buckna]

Think there needs to be a serious movement towards voting "None of the Above" Brewster's Millions style. I know I am not the only one out here disgusted with the two leading candidates.

 

[Willie Neslon]

Bloomberg?  Maybe?

He ain't running.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

If there is anyone anywhere somewhat viable, likeable, and funded, they could run away with the win vs Donald & Hillary. Heck Sanders just proved you don't need to come in with deep pockets.

 

[jon_mx]

Mark Cuban.  We need more ego.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Think there needs to be a serious movement towards voting "None of the Above" Brewster's Millions style. I know I am not the only one out here disgusted with the two leading candidates.

Aren't Hillary and Donald both at near 60% unfavorable?

I mean good lord these are our presidential candidates?

 

[The Commish]

Aren't Hillary and Donald both at near 60% unfavorable?

I mean good lord these are our presidential candidates?

It's going to be an EPIC race to the bottom....good times

 

[lod01]

Aren't Hillary and Donald both at near 60% unfavorable?

I mean good lord these are our presidential candidates?

4 years from now 60% unfavorable will seem like a dream come true. These losers get worse every 4 years.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

4 years from now 60% unfavorable will seem like a dream come true. These losers get worse every 4 years.

I will say this much, the mood will only worsen with Hillary in power.

 

[Buckychudd]

Can we get the thread title changed to "If you don't vote for a third party candidate you're an idiot"?

 

[cstu]

Can we get the thread title changed to "If you don't vote for a third party candidate you're an idiot"?

It was third party voters who gave us W.

Thanks, guys!

 

[The Commish]

It was third party voters who gave us W.

Thanks, guys!

Depending on which election you're talking about your options (if you believe the two parties are the be all / end all) were GWB, Kerry, or Gore.  Those choices aren't on anyone but those voting in the GOP and Dem primaries

 

[Buckychudd]

It was third party voters who gave us W.

Thanks, guys!

And it's the main party voters who are giving us Trump and Hillary.

Thanks, guys!

 

[Godsbrother]

And it's the main party voters who are giving us Trump and Hillary.

Thanks, guys!

Seriously.  Trump & Hillary -- it would be funny if it wasn't really happening.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

Seriously.  Trump & Hillary -- it would be funny if it wasn't really happening.

Let me 3rd that.

 

[Grace Under Pressure]

LOL at the thread title every time, solid delivery.