Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Let’s see how the board views him
Last edited by a moderator:
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
Was Baker Mayfield the Problem in CLE? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Hot Sauce Guy
- Start date
I think it’s somewhere between those two options. While I don’t think he’s terrible, I’ve seen enough of him to make the determination that he’s not the guy I’d want as the face of my franchise. It has to be a gut punch everytime Browns fans see him on yet another commercial.
If those are my only two options, I’m going to vote the one that he’s terrible.
If those are my only two options, I’m going to vote the one that he’s terrible.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
He’s Andy Dalton - which isn’t necessarily the insult it seems to be. Still not particularly high praise.
Soulfly3
Footballguy
after this season, we'll know with absolute certainty, imo.
right now, looking likelier he'll just, unfortunately, be JAG.... but if he stays healthy, w an actual #1 receiver, and the coach actually RUNS the ball instead of making him throw excessively for no reason, i think he can be more than capable.
anyways.... if deshaun was available, id take him 100% today.
right now, looking likelier he'll just, unfortunately, be JAG.... but if he stays healthy, w an actual #1 receiver, and the coach actually RUNS the ball instead of making him throw excessively for no reason, i think he can be more than capable.
anyways.... if deshaun was available, id take him 100% today.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I probably should have had a middle option in the poll. I don’t think I can edit it now, but posting it in response gets that discussion going.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I’ll note that no one has voted the 2nd option yet. 
Last edited by a moderator:
Summer Wheat
Footballguy
Hard to judge as he played with a broken shoulder last season.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
MAC_32
Footballguy
This article best describes what I think about him right now. The market has over corrected on him based on what happened as 2021 went along, but what happens in 2022 (and future years) when a similar hurdle emerges? Is he too head strong for his own good or will he heed the lessons learned from this past year.
Soulfly3
Footballguy
year 3, he was quite good, especially down the stretch. again, we're making excuses for him, but yr1-2 arent really excuses
jm192
Footballguy
I don't think he's TERRIBLE.
I don't think he's special.
There has been a ton of "Baker is better than you realize" chatter online and on Twitter. I think he's average to a little better than average. And no one's going to convince me otherwise until he does it on the field.
If I'm building a team tomorrow, I'd rather have Ryan Tannehill. I'd rather have Carr. I'd rather have Cousins.
I don't think Baker is "The Problem." But I'm also not sold he's "The solution."
I don't think he's special.
There has been a ton of "Baker is better than you realize" chatter online and on Twitter. I think he's average to a little better than average. And no one's going to convince me otherwise until he does it on the field.
If I'm building a team tomorrow, I'd rather have Ryan Tannehill. I'd rather have Carr. I'd rather have Cousins.
I don't think Baker is "The Problem." But I'm also not sold he's "The solution."
Last edited by a moderator:
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
It’s not asinine in the slightest.
The question is straightforward. Do you believe Mayfield is the problem, or not?
You’ve been making excuses for the guy on here for days now. You actually inspired the question, so…thanks!
ETA: if you think he’s somewhere in the middle, that’s what polite discussion is for. Calling the poll “asinine” isn’t polite, nor will it inspire discussion.
Last edited by a moderator:
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
And under the right circumstances (good defense, good running game, good playcalling…etc) you can win with those quarterbacks. The difference is the margin of error to make it work is small. Baker had a healthy and productive 2020. They smashed Pitt in the wild card and lost a very close game to the Chiefs in Arrowhead the next week. Ball bounces a different way they could have easily contended for the Super Bowl that year and who knows how Baker would have been regarded differently at that point. Not giving him a pass for last years injury ridden debacle, but I do want to see if a healthy Baker looks more like the 2020 version.
I'm 100% for player critiques, But the logic behind the options is basically that you either are an elite stud, or you are "the problem" and I think its a lot more complicated than that.
I think Mayfield is in the 16-20 range at QB, with 32 starters in the league, I consider that to be an average to above average starter.
I can get on board with this. I'd take all 3 of those guys over Mayfield, especially Tannehill.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
The logic is asking the question about this specific player. I’m not asking about every QB. I’m asking if Mayfield is the problem in CLE.
At this point in his career, after the body of evidence we have, I think it’s a fair question.
I agree he’s somewhere in the middle. I put him closer to JimmyG than I do Pat Mahomes. I’ve seen him make head-scratchingly terrible decisions (like JimmyG) and I’ve seen him play at a decent level at times as well.
Will he ever be more than JimmyG?
Again, just because there are two options in the poll doesn’t mean you can’t express another one.
Deamon
Footballguy
Then why not make that an option? You made a poll that not even yourself feel comfortable voting on
Then I would answer no, I don't think Mayfield is a terrible QB the Browns need to move on from, but I also don't think he's terrific and about to lead the Browns to a Super Bowl.
I would prefer Mayfield to Jimmy G.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I agree with this take more than any.
This is a true make or break season for him.
I will even go so far as to say I’m not a believer in his ceiling, but concede it’s possible that it’s higher than I’ve given him credit for.
He has had some injuries & some crappy circumstances. He’s also been inaccurate & showed a propensity for poor decision making.
if he comes out balling in 2022, I’ll be the 1st to tip my cap.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I made it a binary - already said I probably should have.Then why not make that an option? You made a poll that not even yourself feel comfortable voting on
But the overall question wasn’t “how good is Mayfield”, it was “is Mayfield the problem in CLE” and I am very comfortable saying “yes” at this point.
As many of said somewhere in between. If I was ranking starting top 32 QB's in the league he'd be in the 20's. He's got a good arm and movement skills but for reasons I'm not entirely sure has not been able to work around his size limitations as well as some other smaller QB's have recently done. Biggest weakness so far has been that I literally don't think he can see down the field well while in the pocket.
MAC_32
Footballguy
I won't pick a Mayfield v Carr battle, but strongly disagree about Baker v most QB's in that tier. Baker has shown glimpses of being a guy capable and willing to put the team on his back whereas most of that tier showed some time ago that they can't (i.e. Cousins). Give me the volatile option with a Jimmy G floor over known mediocrity.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
At the moment, I think the Browns do need to move off of him. This year could convince me otherwise, but I won’t hold my breath. I’ve seen more bad out of him than good & I'm not sure AC is the answer to what ails him - in a run 1st offense, Cooper could become an irritant.
Time will tell. I see the Browns as a QB away from winning it all.
Deamon
Footballguy
Ya he's probably in the 20's.
It's so hard to find a franchise top 10 qb. Not every team can have this, and the vast majority can't. What percentage of the leagues teams do you think are happy and with their QB situation over the next 3-4 years?
Patriots
Bills
Chiefs
Broncos
Chargers
Bengals
Ravens
Jags
Cowboys
Rams
Cardinals
Packers
Bears?
Niners?
Dolphins?
Jets?
Half the league isn't set at QB.... so Baker is below average but likely much better than anything else they can have right now.
Deamon
Footballguy
But what QB would that be? There's none out there. Easy to say "draft one", but odds of hitting on one better than him are not that high, plus you're giving up a stud at another position.
TwinTurbo
Footballguy
Per dollar spent in salary, I would say he's bottom 2 in the league along with Kirk Cousins. These are franchise destroyers since they count so much against the cap, yet those teams only have 1 playoff win to show for it. It's like throwing giant bags of money into a fireplace.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
That’s probably fair as well. Carr for whatever reason seems unwilling to take risks. I’m not sure if he’s shell shocked like his brother, or if he doesn’t trust himself, or his receivers - he looked better with Ruggs, but when he was gone & Waller fell off the map, Carr seemed to regress.
for now I have Carr over Mayfield, as I believe it’s fair to judge him based on the circumstances. He did look very good before the Ruggs incident.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
That’s a question for another subject. Could they have brought in Russell Wilson when he was available?
if I’m the Browns, I probably make a big push for that.
But they didn’t, likely because they had that 5th year option.
Deamon
Footballguy
Maybe, but they would have had to give up a ton to get Wilson. And you yourself have been critical of his play over the last couple years.
Just think it's harder to acquire a top 15 qb than people think. Literally the majority of the league doesn't have one.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
good article. Not sure I completely agree, but it was a good read - thanks for sharing.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
i have - he’s not been as adept at escaping pressure and improvising, which was such an important part of his game in past seasons with that shaky OL. Theoretically in CLE (as is the hope in Denver) the OL will afford him enough protection/time that the step he’s lost in mobility isn’t as necessary.
Don’t disagree. Just basic math says there are 15 players in that “top 15”, and that leaves 17 teams without one.
But at some point one has to figure out if a 20th or 24th best QB is enough to keep trying to win with.
Look at JimmyG last year. He was atrocious in the playoffs. He also had his excuses - the thumb & knee & shoulder & whatever else was ailing him. But at the end of the day his play simply wasn’t good enough to win in the playoffs. They snuck past Dallas (crazy), they shoulda been bounced by GB (thank you, special teams), and rightfully got beaten by a better Rams team. But it was close - and a little bit better play by JimmyG & maybe they make the super bowl.
Point being, a team *can* win with one of those 16-32 QBs, but it’s a hell of a lot harder, and requires a lot more lucky bounces. So having to rely on that stresses a team quite a bit more.
Wilson to the Browns makes them an instant contender. Another year of Mayfield makes them
Last edited by a moderator:
If the Browns could get Watson, I'd say go for it. Beyond him, I'm not sure there is an upgrade available for a reasonable price. I think Cousins and Carr are better, but not a ton better, and they seem like they would cost the #13+, and a huge cap hit.
Of the guys who started most of 2021, I think Mayfield is a better QB than the following:
Darnold, Teddy, Goff, Wentz, Tua, Winston, D.Jones, Hurts, Roethlisberger, Garoppolo, Heinicke. That's 11 guys. I'm not ready to make any definitive calls on the 2021 rookies yet, but he's likely better than at least some of them.
Of the guys who started most of 2021, I think Mayfield is a better QB than the following:
Darnold, Teddy, Goff, Wentz, Tua, Winston, D.Jones, Hurts, Roethlisberger, Garoppolo, Heinicke. That's 11 guys. I'm not ready to make any definitive calls on the 2021 rookies yet, but he's likely better than at least some of them.
I would agree with this, although this list is simply a who’s who of mediocre to terrible starting QB’s around the league. I think an argument can be made that Jimmy G is better, although I would not agree.
TwinTurbo
Footballguy
The main theme of the article is Baker is tough and has strong internal fortitude. Most players in the league have those qualities. So do lots of practice squad guys. But you still need Brett Favre's arm to be Brett Farve. The argument that he's tough and has a lionheart doesn't do much towards making the playoffs if the talent and accuracy are lacking.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
That was my takeaway as well. The “there’s still hope for him” wasn’t clear - hope for what? Continued mediocrity, or continued toughness?
I agree he’s tough & has moxie. As you suggested, so do a lot of players. 49ers ran out a whole host of subpar QBs with moxie - I wouldn’t think any of them would be an upgrade to Mayfield.
Pickle Rody
IBL Representative
Chose not to vote.
Mostly because I don't feel Mayfield is the main problem in Cleveland. I think the main reason for Cleveland's current run of mediocrity is a failure to capitalize on their players strengths. More often than not the Browns game plans simply don't take advantage of those strengths. They need to form an offensive philosophy that does, consistently. Same on defense I suppose but I notice it more on the offensive side of the ball. I think Mayfield would be a superb on-field general if his supporting cast was utilized to its maximum potential. That requires a big adjustment on the part of the coaching staff. A committed one also.
Mostly because I don't feel Mayfield is the main problem in Cleveland. I think the main reason for Cleveland's current run of mediocrity is a failure to capitalize on their players strengths. More often than not the Browns game plans simply don't take advantage of those strengths. They need to form an offensive philosophy that does, consistently. Same on defense I suppose but I notice it more on the offensive side of the ball. I think Mayfield would be a superb on-field general if his supporting cast was utilized to its maximum potential. That requires a big adjustment on the part of the coaching staff. A committed one also.
Last edited by a moderator:
MAC_32
Footballguy
None of Wilson, Rodgers, nor Watson were ever coming here. It's fodder for those needing clicks during slow news season. The question is if the alternatives beyond them are worth considering a move. And they're not.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
a fair response. This poll, like any other, was intended to inspire thought / conversation.
Interesting take. I’m not sure I agree, but it’s certainly thoughtful, and worth discussing.
i guess I don’t see Mayfield as a great leader - and his decision making under pressure is partly why.
i actually think CLE has made the most of their talent for years - they run Hunt/Chubb with balance. Some of the things they fall short on seem to be a lack of ability from Mayfield. E.g. play action deep shots where he’s either missed the target & not thrown, or thrown poorly to open targets.
i was more convinced of that when that video came out.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Rodgers, no - I felt he’d stay with the packers regardless.
Wilson - not sure.
Watson? Might be possible. Would absolutely be an upgrade.
Summer Wheat
Footballguy
I am not a fan and think Mayfield will end up as a good backup when his contract is up.
Just saw he was playing with a leather harness on his bad shoulder and every hit he took had to be very painful. So respect for that if not his play.
MAC_32
Footballguy
Talent isn't the issue. I think his accuracy issues returned due to the injuries. He never successfully adjusted his mechanics around them. Too tough for his own good aside my main concern with him is in his progressions. May have been a product of lack of trust in Beckham and spacing created by the rest of them though.
MAC_32
Footballguy
BoltNlava
Footballguy
He's mediocre (minus maybe) and with that running game it almost feels like enough. The rub is that it isn't. Cleveland need a hero. Not one special player is running to the Browns to be apart of the uprising. Not one. Some can and will be bought. It will not be enough ever. Until they get a QB that can inspire some sense of renown it will be more of the same. That's all you need to know as of right now.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
This is in the vein of “if the 49ers can make 1 SB & one NFCC with JimmyG, the Browns should be able to do that with Mayfield”.
Except they haven’t. And does anyone really think they can?
They *should* - like you said, it almost feels like enough.
If they don’t this year, do they draft a QB? Any FA of note who could do better in 2023?
If I’m CLE, I’m getting on the horn with ATL to see how much they really want to pay Matt Ryan these last two years of his contract. Ryan might not be what he once was, but I’d bet he gets the Browns at least to the Playoffs, and likely a heck of a lot further.
