Was this date rape? (1 Viewer)

[Papa Georgio]

[SIZE=14.3999996185303px]Please treat this topic with respect.[/SIZE]

I recently had a girl I have become friends with tell me about something that happened to her about 5 years ago.

She met a guy that would come into where she worked. They exchanged numbers and after talking back and forth some she would hang out with him after work. Typical good night kiss that progressed to a little more over time. One night has asked her over to his house for some dinner and drinks and she accepts. After dinner they start to watch a movie and as you expect they start fooling around. He asks her to go to the bedroom and she says I don't think that's a good idea right now. He then picks her up and carries her into the bedroom. She admits that she thought it was a turn on that he did that and gets a little caught up in the moment. He undresses her but as he is getting undressed she snaps out of it or however you want to put it. She is laying on the bed at this point and starts to raise up. As she does this, he some what forcefully pushes her back down on the bed. She puts her hands on his chest to push him away and he smashes her arms against her and begins to have sex with her. Her arms are pinned on her chest in-between the 2 of them. She never said don't or stop, said at this point she was afraid to. She said the sex was very rough and felt wrong. She also said all she wanted was for him to finish so it would be over. She told me she just went some where else in her mind as well.

She honestly didn't paint it as a forced situation, and just talked about it being one of the worst nights of her life, biggest regret...etc. I was the one that said that it sounded like date rape. She just replied with "kinda".

One last note I tried to look this guy up and can find no trace of him. I find it very odd that I can't.

 

[Tom Servo]

I would say that since she made an attempt to physically resist him - even if she didn't say anything out loud - that this is definitely date rape.

I'm sorry this happened to your friend.

ETA: Moreso since she "wanted to be somewhere else" and "it felt wrong", not to mention the fear she felt.

 

[Bucky86]

Yeah...I'd say so.

 

[StrikeS2k]

If it happened it was absolutely Rape. Is that really a question?

 

[nirad3]

Yes.

 

[Fennis]

sounds like rape rape

 

[Quez]

No means yes, yes means an41

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

This is pretty much a quintessential test case for the old mistake of fact defense to rape. From the facts presented, it seems clear to me that this guy performed the actions defining a criminal offense of rape. He had sex, by force, without consent. I don't think there's any question that the victim did not, in fact, consent. The question is whether the aggressor could have reasonably believed that she had consented. And that's an area in criminal law that has evolved over the last 50 years or so, but it still comes down to the jury. Without additional facts, I think most juries would probably conclude that he committed a crime.

 

[offdee]

Very strange she didn't say No or Stop at any point. Even in the most extreme situations of violence, someone who doesn't want it to happen instinctually will say those words. Seems silly to say she was too scared to say it out loud. Without saying those words everything else could unfortunately be construed as rough sex which is a turn on for many. Obviously the dude should've been able to tell from her body language but most guys are idiots when it comes to that thing. Sucks she had that experience.

 

[Papa Georgio]

I didn't say this to her but a big mistake was going to a guys house for a date. I don't think in any way it excuses what took place, but poor judgement. Just because she texted some guy for 2 weeks straight and ran around for another couple of weeks, she really didn't know him obviously. She thought she did. I mean typical set up that most guys have used, throw in a little alcohol for good measure too.

Again she doesn't herself think of it as date rape herself, I think she is in denial though. She said that she only talked to him one other time and it was in a public place and he forced her to hug him and she told him to let her go but again she her arms were pinned, but he let go pretty quickly due to the fact it was in a public place.

 

[Clifford]

I am going to say that from the OP it is not clear that the guy knew she did not want to have sex with him. However his actions (carrying her to the bedroom, pushing her back down on the bed) put him in a dangerous position. The fact that she said she was into the carrying to bedroom part definitely muddies the picture. Also apparently she did not "snap out of it" until he started undressing. Safe to assume this is after her clothes come off?

From her perspective, it seems more like date rape. From his, he might have known he was pushing it too far and he might have thought he was being take-charge and she was into it. Legislating sex is hard bc of all the conflicting signals.

I think if she had wanted to make it stop she could have said so. But she didn't, so we don't really know if he would have stopped or not. All we really know is that she was into it at first, then wasn't, and made some efforts to resist but held back from really resisting. Not enough here to call this guy a rapist for me.

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

Yes it was rape.

No, it was not her fault.

But she made about 10 different mistakes that led up to the rape.

Do not let her feel like it was her fault even with her mistakes. But hopefully she learned a really terrible lesson.

 

[Clifford]

I didn't say this to her but a big mistake was going to a guys house for a date. I don't think in any way it excuses what took place, but poor judgement. Just because she texted some guy for 2 weeks straight and ran around for another couple of weeks, she really didn't know him obviously. She thought she did. I mean typical set up that most guys have used, throw in a little alcohol for good measure too.

Again she doesn't herself think of it as date rape herself, I think she is in denial though. She said that she only talked to him one other time and it was in a public place and he forced her to hug him and she told him to let her go but again she her arms were pinned, but he let go pretty quickly due to the fact it was in a public place.

On second thought maybe dude is a rapist. Truth is a lot of chicks claim to like a man to "take charge" when it comes to sex, and I was willing to give him benefit of the doubt that he was trying to play that role, but sounds like he's into forcing chicks to do things with him. A forced hug is just weird.

Again, not really enough in OP to say that it was rape, but plenty based on this to say dude is a creep.

And I don't think there was anything wrong with her going to his house.

 

[MC Gas Money]

If she didnt express it verbally thst she did welcome it I cant consider a rape. It sounds like she got in to it. Some women get off on rape play in the bedroom.

 

[Reegus]

Should we replace she with I and her with papa georgio? Did you get violated?

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

If she didnt express it verbally thst she did welcome it I cant consider a rape. It sounds like she got in to it. Some women get off on rape play in the bedroom.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that you have no idea what women get off on.

 

[seahawk 17]

I would need to know what was said and done after the act to decide. Did she hang out afterwards, bolt, stay the night?

Interesting that she doesn't view it as rape.

 

[Corporation]

Of course what you described is rape.

Alternate train of thought: you tried to look this guy up but couldn't find anything. Do you know he exists? Could she be playing a false sympathy card, or be sending you or others that she is not ready for a physical relationship and this would be something people wouldn't push with her?

 

[EYLive]

Does the guy know she felt violated? It could have been rape, but the guy had no idea.

 

[MC Gas Money]

If she didnt express it verbally thst she did welcome it I cant consider a rape. It sounds like she got in to it. Some women get off on rape play in the bedroom.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that you have no idea what women get off on.

Every woman is different.

I have never been with a womsn who liked rape play but I have heard of it. I would not personally date a girl like that. I like traditional fetishes.

I have a very high success rate in bed.

 

[Bucky86]

Does the guy know she felt violated? It could have been rape, but the guy had no idea.

What does it matter? There are different types of rape, but they all are what they are..RAPE.

Maybe the situation got too far and the girl was paralyzed with fear and couldn't physically say anything?

I'm not sure how many women that youve been with, but I have never had a single one push me off, or act in a manner where I had to push them back down on the bed.

 

[Jackstraw]

I think a lot of guys don't understand the "implied violence" that is likely if she resists. So do you get raped and get out of there or do you get your ### beat or killed and still get raped and maybe get out of there.

That's the calculus that is going on for girls who don't go down screaming and fighting. Some guys might poopoo it but I've heard the sentiment shared enough to believe its real.

 

[Papa Georgio]

She definitely wasn't into it. If you read carefully you will see that. As far as afterward. She left within 15 min. Cried all the way home, took 1 phone call and told him she didn't want to see him. He asked about the sex and she told him I think you know how I feel about it and hung up. Now here is a strange thing about it. A year goes by and she contacts him. He's leaving to go overseas in the military and she agrees to meet him in a public place. This is where the forced hug takes place. Says she stormed away and never talked to him again.

I was really concerned as much about the legalities of it but just the morality of it and if I had it right in my head. If ANYONE ever did such a thing to one of my daughters they'd need to be overseas to keep themselves safe.

 

[Bucky86]

I think a lot of guys don't understand the "implied violence" that is likely if she resists. So do you get raped and get out of there or do you get your ### beat or killed and still get raped and maybe get out of there.

That's the calculus that is going on for girls who don't go down screaming and fighting. Some guys might poopoo it but I've heard the sentiment shared enough to believe its real.

Which is why California instituted the "Yes means yes" law.

 

[Papa Georgio]

I think a lot of guys don't understand the "implied violence" that is likely if she resists. So do you get raped and get out of there or do you get your ### beat or killed and still get raped and maybe get out of there.

That's the calculus that is going on for girls who don't go down screaming and fighting. Some guys might poopoo it but I've heard the sentiment shared enough to believe its real.

I think this is exactly what she thought.

 

[Clifford]

Does the guy know she felt violated? It could have been rape, but the guy had no idea.

What does it matter? There are different types of rape, but they all are what they are..RAPE.

Maybe the situation got too far and the girl was paralyzed with fear and couldn't physically say anything?

I'm not sure how many women that youve been with, but I have never had a single one push me off, or act in a manner where I had to push them back down on the bed.

If you are talking about it as a crime, which it is, then I think the person knowing they are committing a crime is pretty key. Otherwise there is no intent. Especially in this area.

And I don't know about that last part either. Some girls like to play coy. I had one in bed with me tell me she just wanted to be friends. I asked for a "nice friendly #######" which she eagerly complied with and the next thing you know she's begging for a facial. Sex is a many-nuanced subject.

 

[Papa Georgio]

Of course what you described is rape.

Alternate train of thought: you tried to look this guy up but couldn't find anything. Do you know he exists? Could she be playing a false sympathy card, or be sending you or others that she is not ready for a physical relationship and this would be something people wouldn't push with her?

Honestly think he gave her a fictitious name and had an identity set up. She doesn't think so but I'm starting to believe it more and more. No romantic intentions on either side of this.

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

If she didnt express it verbally thst she did welcome it I cant consider a rape. It sounds like she got in to it. Some women get off on rape play in the bedroom.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that you have no idea what women get off on.

I have never been with a womsn

No ####

 

[kentric]

[SIZE=14.39px]Please treat this topic with respect.[/SIZE]

I recently had a girl I have become friends with tell me about something that happened to her about 5 years ago.

She met a guy that would come into where she worked. They exchanged numbers and after talking back and forth some she would hang out with him after work. Typical good night kiss that progressed to a little more over time. One night has asked her over to his house for some dinner and drinks and she accepts. After dinner they start to watch a movie and as you expect they start fooling around. He asks her to go to the bedroom and she says I don't think that's a good idea right now. He then picks her up and carries her into the bedroom. She admits that she thought it was a turn on that he did that and gets a little caught up in the moment. He undresses her but as he is getting undressed she snaps out of it or however you want to put it. She is laying on the bed at this point and starts to raise up. As she does this, he some what forcefully pushes her back down on the bed. She puts her hands on his chest to push him away and he smashes her arms against her and begins to have sex with her. Her arms are pinned on her chest in-between the 2 of them. She never said don't or stop, said at this point she was afraid to. She said the sex was very rough and felt wrong. She also said all she wanted was for him to finish so it would be over. She told me she just went some where else in her mind as well.

She honestly didn't paint it as a forced situation, and just talked about it being one of the worst nights of her life, biggest regret...etc. I was the one that said that it sounded like date rape. She just replied with "kinda".

One last note I tried to look this guy up and can find no trace of him. I find it very odd that I can't.

I find this last point interesting. Where are you going with this?

 

[MC Gas Money]

If she didnt express it verbally thst she did welcome it I cant consider a rape. It sounds like she got in to it. Some women get off on rape play in the bedroom.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that you have no idea what women get off on.

I have never been with a womsn

No ####

That is a very lazy attempt pete.

You can do better.

 

[MC Gas Money]

Please treat this topic with respect.

I recently had a girl I have become friends with tell me about something that happened to her about 5 years ago.

She met a guy that would come into where she worked. They exchanged numbers and after talking back and forth some she would hang out with him after work. Typical good night kiss that progressed to a little more over time. One night has asked her over to his house for some dinner and drinks and she accepts. After dinner they start to watch a movie and as you expect they start fooling around. He asks her to go to the bedroom and she says I don't think that's a good idea right now. He then picks her up and carries her into the bedroom. She admits that she thought it was a turn on that he did that and gets a little caught up in the moment. He undresses her but as he is getting undressed she snaps out of it or however you want to put it. She is laying on the bed at this point and starts to raise up. As she does this, he some what forcefully pushes her back down on the bed. She puts her hands on his chest to push him away and he smashes her arms against her and begins to have sex with her. Her arms are pinned on her chest in-between the 2 of them. She never said don't or stop, said at this point she was afraid to. She said the sex was very rough and felt wrong. She also said all she wanted was for him to finish so it would be over. She told me she just went some where else in her mind as well.

She honestly didn't paint it as a forced situation, and just talked about it being one of the worst nights of her life, biggest regret...etc. I was the one that said that it sounded like date rape. She just replied with "kinda".

One last note I tried to look this guy up and can find no trace of him. I find it very odd that I can't.

I find this last point interesting. Where are you going with this?

Maybe he likes a man who takes charge

 

[MikeIke]

I think a lot of guys don't understand the "implied violence" that is likely if she resists. So do you get raped and get out of there or do you get your ### beat or killed and still get raped and maybe get out of there.

That's the calculus that is going on for girls who don't go down screaming and fighting. Some guys might poopoo it but I've heard the sentiment shared enough to believe its real.

A woman doesn't have to actively fight it for it to be rape. And yes, this was a rape.

 

[Dentist]

Does the guy know she felt violated? It could have been rape, but the guy had no idea.

I was surprised almost everyone of the posts went immediately to rape.

If I were an aggressive dude who might have been a bit drunk I might not have interpreted her actions as a sign of "no"

In fact, I think i can recall a situation or two over the years whereby if this is a "clear" case of rape to some of you, that I may have acted a bit rapey myself but it certainly didn't seem like it at the time.

 

[MC Gas Money]

If she didnt express it verbally thst she did welcome it I cant consider a rape. It sounds like she got in to it. Some women get off on rape play in the bedroom.

I have AIDS

 

[Clifford]

I think this guy was too pushy when he carried her up to the bedroom after getting "not right now." He should have been cool and waited.

Then obviously either ignored or did not pick up on signals that she was not into it.

If ignored, sure, date rapist. If did not pick up on, morally is at fault and should be much more attentive to subtle signals, but not necessarily a rapist since he probably thought she was into it.

All we can do is guess as to whether it was ignore or the other.

 

[Papa Georgio]

I think it's possible he thought he was just being aggressive and she was into it. From everything I can tell by how she described it I don't think that's the case. It went too far before she started having doubts. Odds are he could've played the game and had a consensual situation but instead he used force. She even used the word "forced" and "he just took it".

 

[McGarnicle]

I think a lot of guys don't understand the "implied violence" that is likely if she resists. So do you get raped and get out of there or do you get your ### beat or killed and still get raped and maybe get out of there.That's the calculus that is going on for girls who don't go down screaming and fighting. Some guys might poopoo it but I've heard the sentiment shared enough to believe its real.

Along these lines, I believe it was rape. But her actions leading up to it and failing to verbalize non-consent means it's probably extremely difficult if not impossible to prosecute.

 

[badmojo1006]

It is rape. Also, is it past the statue of limitations?

 

[kentric]

Does the guy know she felt violated? It could have been rape, but the guy had no idea.

I was surprised almost everyone of the posts went immediately to rape.

If I were an aggressive dude who might have been a bit drunk I might not have interpreted her actions as a sign of "no"

In fact, I think i can recall a situation or two over the years whereby if this is a "clear" case of rape to some of you, that I may have acted a bit rapey myself but it certainly didn't seem like it at the time.

Stay away from my daughter.

 

[MikeIke]

I think a lot of guys don't understand the "implied violence" that is likely if she resists. So do you get raped and get out of there or do you get your ### beat or killed and still get raped and maybe get out of there.That's the calculus that is going on for girls who don't go down screaming and fighting. Some guys might poopoo it but I've heard the sentiment shared enough to believe its real.

Along these lines, I believe it was rape. But her actions leading up to it and failing to verbalize non-consent means it's probably extremely difficult if not impossible to prosecute.

Oh yeah, there's no way this guy would even be prosecuted, let alone convicted. Doesn't mean it wasn't rape.

 

[Dentist]

Does the guy know she felt violated? It could have been rape, but the guy had no idea.

I was surprised almost everyone of the posts went immediately to rape.

If I were an aggressive dude who might have been a bit drunk I might not have interpreted her actions as a sign of "no"

In fact, I think i can recall a situation or two over the years whereby if this is a "clear" case of rape to some of you, that I may have acted a bit rapey myself but it certainly didn't seem like it at the time.

Stay away from my daughter.

let's not go overboard Francis... I'm not looking for anyone's daughter I'm happily married in a non-rapey relationship

 

[kentric]

Does the guy know she felt violated? It could have been rape, but the guy had no idea.

I was surprised almost everyone of the posts went immediately to rape.

If I were an aggressive dude who might have been a bit drunk I might not have interpreted her actions as a sign of "no"

In fact, I think i can recall a situation or two over the years whereby if this is a "clear" case of rape to some of you, that I may have acted a bit rapey myself but it certainly didn't seem like it at the time.

Stay away from my daughter.

let's not go overboard Francis... I'm not looking for anyone's daughter I'm happily married in a non-rapey relationship

Francis?? You stole my line.

 

[Bucky86]

I think a lot of guys don't understand the "implied violence" that is likely if she resists. So do you get raped and get out of there or do you get your ### beat or killed and still get raped and maybe get out of there.That's the calculus that is going on for girls who don't go down screaming and fighting. Some guys might poopoo it but I've heard the sentiment shared enough to believe its real.

Along these lines, I believe it was rape. But her actions leading up to it and failing to verbalize non-consent means it's probably extremely difficult if not impossible to prosecute.

Oh yeah, there's no way this guy would even be prosecuted, let alone convicted. Doesn't mean it wasn't rape.

Exhibit A for the yes means yes law. Now these dirtbags can get prosecuted

 

[Papa Georgio]

I recalled a situation to her and will share this. I had a girl stop me one night right at the point of entry. It started w her pushing on my chest so I said what's wrong, she said "I can't do this". I got dressed and went home. That's how you handle it. I sure wanted to continue but I could tell she didn't feel right about it. I was pretty drunk too. Girl thought I was the coolest guy ever for how I handled it.

 

[badmojo1006]

If she didnt express it verbally thst she did welcome it I cant consider a rape. It sounds like she got in to it. Some women get off on rape play in the bedroom.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that you have no idea what women get off on.

Really? my ex liked it rough on occasion, where we even role played this once. She loved it...

But then again, she did leave me for another woman

 

[Tom Servo]

Please treat this topic with respect.

I recently had a girl I have become friends with tell me about something that happened to her about 5 years ago.

She met a guy that would come into where she worked. They exchanged numbers and after talking back and forth some she would hang out with him after work. Typical good night kiss that progressed to a little more over time. One night has asked her over to his house for some dinner and drinks and she accepts. After dinner they start to watch a movie and as you expect they start fooling around. He asks her to go to the bedroom and she says I don't think that's a good idea right now. He then picks her up and carries her into the bedroom. She admits that she thought it was a turn on that he did that and gets a little caught up in the moment. He undresses her but as he is getting undressed she snaps out of it or however you want to put it. She is laying on the bed at this point and starts to raise up. As she does this, he some what forcefully pushes her back down on the bed. She puts her hands on his chest to push him away and he smashes her arms against her and begins to have sex with her. Her arms are pinned on her chest in-between the 2 of them. She never said don't or stop, said at this point she was afraid to. She said the sex was very rough and felt wrong. She also said all she wanted was for him to finish so it would be over. She told me she just went some where else in her mind as well.

She honestly didn't paint it as a forced situation, and just talked about it being one of the worst nights of her life, biggest regret...etc. I was the one that said that it sounded like date rape. She just replied with "kinda".

One last note I tried to look this guy up and can find no trace of him. I find it very odd that I can't.

I find this last point interesting. Where are you going with this?

Maybe he likes a man who takes charge

Sadly, you can't do better, Gomer.

 

[Mr. Pickles]

I have a very high success rate in bed.

Rawr?

 

[Clifford]

I think a lot of guys don't understand the "implied violence" that is likely if she resists. So do you get raped and get out of there or do you get your ### beat or killed and still get raped and maybe get out of there.That's the calculus that is going on for girls who don't go down screaming and fighting. Some guys might poopoo it but I've heard the sentiment shared enough to believe its real.

Along these lines, I believe it was rape. But her actions leading up to it and failing to verbalize non-consent means it's probably extremely difficult if not impossible to prosecute.

Oh yeah, there's no way this guy would even be prosecuted, let alone convicted. Doesn't mean it wasn't rape.

Exhibit A for the yes means yes law. Now these dirtbags can get prosecuted

Kinda makes it like the exit row seat. I'm sorry sweety, I'm going to need a verbal yes from you that you understand I am about to stick my penis in your ######.

 

[Gene Sackman]

I recalled a situation to her and will share this. I had a girl stop me one night right at the point of entry. It started w her pushing on my chest so I said what's wrong, she said "I can't do this". I got dressed and went home. That's how you handle it. I sure wanted to continue but I could tell she didn't feel right about it. I was pretty drunk too. Girl thought I was the coolest guy ever for how I handled it.

You cleaned the pipes before the date, didnt you?

 

[McGarnicle]

I think it's possible he thought he was just being aggressive and she was into it. From everything I can tell by how she described it I don't think that's the case. It went too far before she started having doubts. Odds are he could've played the game and had a consensual situation but instead he used force. She even used the word "forced" and "he just took it".

Just from my own experience, I always roll my eyes when I hear of any guy who couldn't tell if a girl was consenting to sex. And I've been with girls across the spectrum...girls in hs who initially resist to not look like a slut, so you keep making out and they give in, all the way to girls who like it really rough and nasty. I just don't get, unless you're both extremely intoxicated, in those intimate moments how you're missing very obvious body language cues, unless you're simply imposing your physical dominance to the point the girl is petrified. And it strikes me as screwy that a dude would be rough and overly dominant with a girl he's with for the first time. Go gentle, hit the erogenous zones like the neck and ear lobes in creative ways until she turns to butter, then off with the clothes.