Was this date rape? (1 Viewer)

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Very strange she didn't say No or Stop at any point. Even in the most extreme situations of violence, someone who doesn't want it to happen instinctually will say those words. Seems silly to say she was too scared to say it out loud. Without saying those words everything else could unfortunately be construed as rough sex which is a turn on for many. Obviously the dude should've been able to tell from her body language but most guys are idiots when it comes to that thing. Sucks she had that experience.

This.

Unfortunately the swirl of emotions going on inside a woman's head aren't admissible as evidence, and we only have actions and verbalizations to go on. It's also tough to read the "chest push"... IMO any sort of push away should be read as a red light, but it's also not impossible to see the viewpoint of "she's playing hard to get as she went from cold feet to right back into it when I swept her up, and this was just an isolated chest push". It sucks that it happened, and to me the guy was in the wrong here... but I don't know how it would hold up in court. :(

When I was in college there was this gorgeous younger girl (HS grad incoming freshman) that I met out when I was in summer classes about to head into my 3rd year. We hit it off the first night and made plans to go out. I picked her up and we had a great night out, ended up back at my place and one thing led to another. We end up in my bedroom, starting to have sex when she just sorta changed mood and looked like she was about to cry.

She didn't try to stop me, but I immediately stopped and asked what was wrong. She didn't want to talk about it but wanted to go home. I took her home, but I'd be lying if I wasn't concerned at least in SOME capacity that this distraught chick would tell her parents I forced myself on her or something (even though absolutely nothing of the sort happened).

She called me the next day and explained she hadn't been with anyone since her last serious boyfriend and it just freaked her out a bit... went out again and picked up where we left off and things went great from there ... but that was a crappy situation. No WAY could I have continued going with even the slightest perception that the girl wasn't 100% into it.

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

If she didnt express it verbally thst she did welcome it I cant consider a rape. It sounds like she got in to it. Some women get off on rape play in the bedroom.

I have AIDS

reported

 

[Niles Standish]

Very strange she didn't say No or Stop at any point. Even in the most extreme situations of violence, someone who doesn't want it to happen instinctually will say those words. Seems silly to say she was too scared to say it out loud. Without saying those words everything else could unfortunately be construed as rough sex which is a turn on for many. Obviously the dude should've been able to tell from her body language but most guys are idiots when it comes to that thing. Sucks she had that experience.

I had a close friend who was raped. She never said no either. Felt like she couldn't for whatever reason. From the way she described it, no probably wouldn't have stopped anything. I think being quiet and trying to go away mentally isn't that uncommon.

 

[johnnycakes]

Based on what the OP presented, if I were on a jury, I would not convict on rape. Rape is a very serious charge that could ruin a person's life if convicted. As soon as he picked her up and started towards the bedroom she should have been objecting, not enjoying the feeling of being swept off her feet. Sounds to me like she really didn't say "no" ever. And she certainly never said "no" like she really meant it. Sorry, but I don't read the same thing into "I don't think it would be a good idea right now." Especially if she lets him carry her into the bedroom, toss her on the bed, and undress her all without objection.

 

[EYLive]

Bucky86, on 10 Oct 2014 - 11:44 AM, said:

EYLive, on 10 Oct 2014 - 11:37 AM, saidoes the guy know she felt violated? It could have been rape, but the guy had no idea.

What does it matter? There are different types of rape, but they all are what they are..RAPE.

Maybe the situation got too far and the girl was paralyzed with fear and couldn't physically say anything?

I'm not sure how many women that youve been with, but I have never had a single one push me off, or act in a manner where I had to push them back down on the bed.

It 100% matters. If she verbalizes that she does not want to proceed and makes a serious attempt to fight him off and stop the act, he would know under no uncertain terms that he was sexually assaulting her.

I'm not sure how many "women" you've been with but your plastic dolls probably don't provide any feedback one way or another.

 

[MC Gas Money]

If she didnt express it verbally thst she did welcome it I cant consider a rape. It sounds like she got in to it. Some women get off on rape play in the bedroom.

I have AIDS

reported

That will show me

 

[tdoss]

Only hearing her version and actually one level further out.

She doesn't consider it rape.

She never said no and did nothing to stop him.

She didn't do anything during the swept away King Kong/Officer and Gentleman carry up the stairs.

Sorry but I don't consider this rape. Aggressive yes...but how is dude supposed to know she wasn't down?

 

[Mr.Pack]

I didn't say this to her but a big mistake was going to a guys house for a date. I don't think in any way it excuses what took place, but poor judgement. Just because she texted some guy for 2 weeks straight and ran around for another couple of weeks, she really didn't know him obviously. She thought she did. I mean typical set up that most guys have used, throw in a little alcohol for good measure too.

Again she doesn't herself think of it as date rape herself, I think she is in denial though. She said that she only talked to him one other time and it was in a public place and he forced her to hug him and she told him to let her go but again she her arms were pinned, but he let go pretty quickly due to the fact it was in a public place.

In your original post you said they got to know each other over time and would hang out at work. This contradicts the bolded

 

[EYLive]

Niles Standish, on 10 Oct 2014 - 12:12 PM, said:

offdee, on 10 Oct 2014 - 11:10 AM, said:Very strange she didn't say No or Stop at any point. Even in the most extreme situations of violence, someone who doesn't want it to happen instinctually will say those words. Seems silly to say she was too scared to say it out loud. Without saying those words everything else could unfortunately be construed as rough sex which is a turn on for many. Obviously the dude should've been able to tell from her body language but most guys are idiots when it comes to that thing. Sucks she had that experience.

I had a close friend who was raped. She never said no either. Felt like she couldn't for whatever reason. From the way she described it, no probably wouldn't have stopped anything. I think being quiet and trying to go away mentally isn't that uncommon.

So how is anyone supposed to know if it's rape or just sex?

 

[Rick James]

She is laying on the bed at this point and starts to raise up. As she does this, he some what forcefully pushes her back down on the bed. She puts her hands on his chest to push him away and he smashes her arms against her and begins to have sex with her. Her arms are pinned on her chest in-between the 2 of them

rape.

 

[whiskey7]

[SIZE=14.39px]Please treat this topic with respect.[/SIZE]

I recently had a girl I have become friends with tell me about something that happened to her about 5 years ago.

She met a guy that would come into where she worked. They exchanged numbers and after talking back and forth some she would hang out with him after work. Typical good night kiss that progressed to a little more over time. One night has asked her over to his house for some dinner and drinks and she accepts. After dinner they start to watch a movie and as you expect they start fooling around. He asks her to go to the bedroom and she says I don't think that's a good idea right now. He then picks her up and carries her into the bedroom. She admits that she thought it was a turn on that he did that and gets a little caught up in the moment. He undresses her but as he is getting undressed she snaps out of it or however you want to put it. She is laying on the bed at this point and starts to raise up. As she does this, he some what forcefully pushes her back down on the bed. She puts her hands on his chest to push him away and he smashes her arms against her and begins to have sex with her. Her arms are pinned on her chest in-between the 2 of them. She never said don't or stop, said at this point she was afraid to. She said the sex was very rough and felt wrong. She also said all she wanted was for him to finish so it would be over. She told me she just went some where else in her mind as well.

She honestly didn't paint it as a forced situation, and just talked about it being one of the worst nights of her life, biggest regret...etc. I was the one that said that it sounded like date rape. She just replied with "kinda".

One last note I tried to look this guy up and can find no trace of him. I find it very odd that I can't.

I recalled a situation to her and will share this. I had a girl stop me one night right at the point of entry. It started w her pushing on my chest so I said what's wrong, she said "I can't do this". I got dressed and went home. That's how you handle it. I sure wanted to continue but I could tell she didn't feel right about it. I was pretty drunk too. Girl thought I was the coolest guy ever for how I handled it.

I am trying to figure out what you're up to with this. You seem pretty certain (in the post immediately above) of how that situation is to be handled yet you create a new thread asking if the situation you described is date rape?

 

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I had a close friend who was raped. She never said no either. Felt like she couldn't for whatever reason. From the way she described it, no probably wouldn't have stopped anything. I think being quiet and trying to go away mentally isn't that uncommon.

Absent brute force from an unknown assailant, it can't possibly be construed as rape if the woman doesn't attempt to resist verbally or physically.

 

[McGarnicle]

Niles Standish, on 10 Oct 2014 - 12:12 PM, said:

offdee, on 10 Oct 2014 - 11:10 AM, said:

Very strange she didn't say No or Stop at any point. Even in the most extreme situations of violence, someone who doesn't want it to happen instinctually will say those words. Seems silly to say she was too scared to say it out loud. Without saying those words everything else could unfortunately be construed as rough sex which is a turn on for many. Obviously the dude should've been able to tell from her body language but most guys are idiots when it comes to that thing. Sucks she had that experience.

I had a close friend who was raped. She never said no either. Felt like she couldn't for whatever reason. From the way she described it, no probably wouldn't have stopped anything. I think being quiet and trying to go away mentally isn't that uncommon.

So how is anyone supposed to know if it's rape or just sex?

I don't get how it's possible NOT to know when it gets to that point. I just don't get it, I'm 6'2" and in great shape, yet I've found girls become remarkably strong when you start putting your hands in the wrong places. I'm trying to understand how these guys proceed from there? Just pin her down?

Maybe this stuff should be covered in sex ed. It's always seemed pretty simple to me.

 

[Papa Georgio]

Johnnycakes I couldn't disagree more with you. If at any point a girl changed her mind that's it. If you have to push her down on the bed, pin her arms because she's trying to stop you then you know.

Since she uses words like afraid and forced she might not say rape but I think she feels that way on some level.

Rather rape or not the guy is a ##### bag. I tried finding him to see if he had children, specifically a daughter. Not sure I would've contacted him but would like to have asked how he'd feel if someone treated his daughter like that.

 

[Spike]

She definitely wasn't into it. If you read carefully you will see that. As far as afterward. She left within 15 min. Cried all the way home, took 1 phone call and told him she didn't want to see him. He asked about the sex and she told him I think you know how I feel about it and hung up. Now here is a strange thing about it. A year goes by and she contacts him. He's leaving to go overseas in the military and she agrees to meet him in a public place. This is where the forced hug takes place. Says she stormed away and never talked to him again.

I was really concerned as much about the legalities of it but just the morality of it and if I had it right in my head. If ANYONE ever did such a thing to one of my daughters they'd need to be overseas to keep themselves safe.

Here's what I don't get.

 

[johnnycakes]

Johnnycakes I couldn't disagree more with you. If at any point a girl changed her mind that's it. If you have to push her down on the bed, pin her arms because she's trying to stop you then you know.

Since she uses words like afraid and forced she might not say rape but I think she feels that way on some level.

Rather rape or not the guy is a ##### bag. I tried finding him to see if he had children, specifically a daughter. Not sure I would've contacted him but would like to have asked how he'd feel if someone treated his daughter like that.

Oh, I agree the guy may be a ##### bag. I just don't think he committed rape based on what you posted.

 

[Papa Georgio]

I didn't say this to her but a big mistake was going to a guys house for a date. I don't think in any way it excuses what took place, but poor judgement. Just because she texted some guy for 2 weeks straight and ran around for another couple of weeks, she really didn't know him obviously. She thought she did. I mean typical set up that most guys have used, throw in a little alcohol for good measure too.

Again she doesn't herself think of it as date rape herself, I think she is in denial though. She said that she only talked to him one other time and it was in a public place and he forced her to hug him and she told him to let her go but again she her arms were pinned, but he let go pretty quickly due to the fact it was in a public place.

In your original post you said they got to know each other over time and would hang out at work. This contradicts the bolded

Someone asked about after it happened and if they hung out. Sorry this was my response to that. I'm on my phone and can't keep up w posts.

 

[whiskey7]

Johnnycakes I couldn't disagree more with you. If at any point a girl changed her mind that's it. If you have to push her down on the bed, pin her arms because she's trying to stop you then you know.

Since she uses words like afraid and forced she might not say rape but I think she feels that way on some level.

Rather rape or not the guy is a ##### bag. I tried finding him to see if he had children, specifically a daughter. Not sure I would've contacted him but would like to have asked how he'd feel if someone treated his daughter like that.

Again...if you say this (and truly believe it) what was the point of creating the thread asking if the situation you described was rape??

 

[BobbyLayne]

I recalled a situation to her and will share this. I had a girl stop me one night right at the point of entry. It started w her pushing on my chest so I said what's wrong, she said "I can't do this". I got dressed and went home. That's how you handle it. I sure wanted to continue but I could tell she didn't feel right about it. I was pretty drunk too. Girl thought I was the coolest guy ever for how I handled it.

This.

I actually felt kind of conflicted the first time I read through. I felt a little uncomfortable reading it, wondering if I'd ever been a little rapey in my younger days. I've been known to be forward, say outrageous things and aggressively close. But the key point to me is when she said this might not be a great idea and he ignored it & carried her to the bedroom.

In particular I remember two incidents that were similar, one when I was 18 and another time about 15 years later. In both cases, the first I was with the girl I went down on her for a lengthy time, she didn't reciprocate and we never did the deed. Both times I felt a little used and bummed out she wasn't into me like I was her. Sure, great, let's cuddle. Exactly what me and my raging hard on had in mind. But what else can you do? Too many fish in the sea, her loss, etc.

 

[Papa Georgio]

She definitely wasn't into it. If you read carefully you will see that. As far as afterward. She left within 15 min. Cried all the way home, took 1 phone call and told him she didn't want to see him. He asked about the sex and she told him I think you know how I feel about it and hung up. Now here is a strange thing about it. A year goes by and she contacts him. He's leaving to go overseas in the military and she agrees to meet him in a public place. This is where the forced hug takes place. Says she stormed away and never talked to him again.

I was really concerned as much about the legalities of it but just the morality of it and if I had it right in my head. If ANYONE ever did such a thing to one of my daughters they'd need to be overseas to keep themselves safe.

Here's what I don't get.

Totally agree. Not sure if she wanted to confront him or what.

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

I had a close friend who was raped. She never said no either. Felt like she couldn't for whatever reason. From the way she described it, no probably wouldn't have stopped anything. I think being quiet and trying to go away mentally isn't that uncommon.

Absent brute force from an unknown assailant, it can't possibly be construed as rape if the woman doesn't attempt to resist verbally or physically.

As a matter of law, this is just wrong.

 

[Papa Georgio]

Please treat this topic with respect.

I recently had a girl I have become friends with tell me about something that happened to her about 5 years ago.

She met a guy that would come into where she worked. They exchanged numbers and after talking back and forth some she would hang out with him after work. Typical good night kiss that progressed to a little more over time. One night has asked her over to his house for some dinner and drinks and she accepts. After dinner they start to watch a movie and as you expect they start fooling around. He asks her to go to the bedroom and she says I don't think that's a good idea right now. He then picks her up and carries her into the bedroom. She admits that she thought it was a turn on that he did that and gets a little caught up in the moment. He undresses her but as he is getting undressed she snaps out of it or however you want to put it. She is laying on the bed at this point and starts to raise up. As she does this, he some what forcefully pushes her back down on the bed. She puts her hands on his chest to push him away and he smashes her arms against her and begins to have sex with her. Her arms are pinned on her chest in-between the 2 of them. She never said don't or stop, said at this point she was afraid to. She said the sex was very rough and felt wrong. She also said all she wanted was for him to finish so it would be over. She told me she just went some where else in her mind as well.

She honestly didn't paint it as a forced situation, and just talked about it being one of the worst nights of her life, biggest regret...etc. I was the one that said that it sounded like date rape. She just replied with "kinda".

One last note I tried to look this guy up and can find no trace of him. I find it very odd that I can't.

I recalled a situation to her and will share this. I had a girl stop me one night right at the point of entry. It started w her pushing on my chest so I said what's wrong, she said "I can't do this". I got dressed and went home. That's how you handle it. I sure wanted to continue but I could tell she didn't feel right about it. I was pretty drunk too. Girl thought I was the coolest guy ever for how I handled it.

I am trying to figure out what you're up to with this. You seem pretty certain (in the post immediately above) of how that situation is to be handled yet you create a new thread asking if the situation you described is date rape?

I already thought it was date rape, at best sexual assault but again not concerned w the legalities as much as everyone's pov. What I did was right, what he did was not.

 

[CBusAlex]

Sorry but I don't consider this rape. Aggressive yes...but how is dude supposed to know she wasn't down?

Pretty simple rule of thumb here: if you have to physically restrain someone to get them to have sex with you (unless they've actually asked for that) then they're not down.

 

[EYLive]

McGarnicle, on 10 Oct 2014 - 12:25 PM, said:

EYLive, on 10 Oct 2014 - 12:18 PM, said:

Niles Standish, on 10 Oct 2014 - 12:12 PM, said:Niles Standish, on 10 Oct 2014 - 12:12 PM, said:

offdee, on 10 Oct 2014 - 11:10 AM, saidffdee, on 10 Oct 2014 - 11:10 AM, said:

Very strange she didn't say No or Stop at any point. Even in the most extreme situations of violence, someone who doesn't want it to happen instinctually will say those words. Seems silly to say she was too scared to say it out loud. Without saying those words everything else could unfortunately be construed as rough sex which is a turn on for many. Obviously the dude should've been able to tell from her body language but most guys are idiots when it comes to that thing. Sucks she had that experience.

I had a close friend who was raped. She never said no either. Felt like she couldn't for whatever reason. From the way she described it, no probably wouldn't have stopped anything. I think being quiet and trying to go away mentally isn't that uncommon.

So how is anyone supposed to know if it's rape or just sex?

I don't get how it's possible NOT to know when it gets to that point.I just don't get it, I'm 6'2" and in great shape, yet I've found girls become remarkably strong when you start putting your hands in the wrong places. I'm trying to understand how these guys proceed from there? Just pin her down?

Maybe this stuff should be covered in sex ed. It's always seemed pretty simple to me.

What point? Read what Niles wrote and tell me at what point do you know? I don't think mind reading nor sign language was involved.

 

[Reegus]

Guys im asking this for a friend.

My friend was in prison taking a shower when the soap sliped out of his hands. When he bent over to grab it, a large black man stuck a finger up his ###. Was this rape? Was my friend raped? Should i try to find this man, gather his family and tell them of his gruesome act?

Im asking for a friend.

 

[EYLive]

Papa Georgio, on 10 Oct 2014 - 11:45 AM, saidapa Georgio, on 10 Oct 2014 - 11:45 AM, said:She definitely wasn't into it. If you read carefully you will see that. As far as afterward. She left within 15 min. Cried all the way home, took 1 phone call and told him she didn't want to see him. He asked about the sex and she told him I think you know how I feel about it and hung up. Now here is a strange thing about it. A year goes by and she contacts him. He's leaving to go overseas in the military and she agrees to meet him in a public place. This is where the forced hug takes place. Says she stormed away and never talked to him again.

I was really concerned as much about the legalities of it but just the morality of it and if I had it right in my head. If ANYONE ever did such a thing to one of my daughters they'd need to be overseas to keep themselves safe.

He asked, she did not communicate. Are either of them telepathic?

 

[sbonomo]

Sounds like it is date rape to me as well. I you sure that her account of the story is accurate? The fact that she did not tell him to stop is a bit odd.

 

[EYLive]

sbonomo, on 10 Oct 2014 - 12:38 PM, said:Sounds like it is date rape to me as well. I you sure that her account of the story is accurate? The fact that she did not tell him to stop is a bit odd.

At this point we're just taking the OP/her story as 100% accurate.

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

This.

I actually felt kind of conflicted the first time I read through. I felt a little uncomfortable reading it, wondering if I'd ever been a little rapey in my younger days.

This is good. When researchers interview women about sexual assault, they find that many more women admit to having been assaulted than have been reported. Which presents a conundrum. We can choose to believe that these women have a self-deception problem where they somehow convince themselves after the fact that they have never consented, or men have a problem in misconstruing consent.

I think men should genuinely ask themselves how a woman they've been with would answer a future sexual assault researcher's question. From being on this board, I think a lot of potentially rapey behavior goes kind of unmentioned. Things like saying that you have to put a women in a situation where "she makes bad decisions" or that a shy guy has to "take control of the situation."

I don't think that makes those guys monsters, but I think they're wrong if they think they are genuinely getting consent. And I think its appropriate for the law to reflect that their mistaken beliefs aren't reasonable.

 

[Bucky86]

Bucky86, on 10 Oct 2014 - 11:44 AM, said:

EYLive, on 10 Oct 2014 - 11:37 AM, saidoes the guy know she felt violated? It could have been rape, but the guy had no idea.

What does it matter? There are different types of rape, but they all are what they are..RAPE.

Maybe the situation got too far and the girl was paralyzed with fear and couldn't physically say anything?

I'm not sure how many women that youve been with, but I have never had a single one push me off, or act in a manner where I had to push them back down on the bed.

It 100% matters. If she verbalizes that she does not want to proceed and makes a serious attempt to fight him off and stop the act, he would know under no uncertain terms that he was sexually assaulting her.

I'm not sure how many "women" you've been with but your plastic dolls probably don't provide any feedback one way or another.

Her pushing his chest away from her was her attempt to fight him off. That was all I needed to read. We do not know the physical size of either one of these people. My girlfriend would have no chance pushing off a 6'2" 250 pound man.

A sex doll joke...funny.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

Johnnycakes I couldn't disagree more with you. If at any point a girl changed her mind that's it. If you have to push her down on the bed, pin her arms because she's trying to stop you then you know.

Since she uses words like afraid and forced she might not say rape but I think she feels that way on some level.

Rather rape or not the guy is a ##### bag. I tried finding him to see if he had children, specifically a daughter. Not sure I would've contacted him but would like to have asked how he'd feel if someone treated his daughter like that.

Johnnycakes said that, if he were on a jury, he would not convict under these facts. I think most everyone agrees a conviction is highly unlikely under these facts, and we've only heard her story. I think we can all easily imagine a situation where one person believes its consensual while the other feels it was non-consensual. This is especially true when she (for whatever reason) didn't communicate her feelings in any meaningful way, and in some ways sent mixed messages to him.

 

[tommyboy]

I think a lot of guys don't understand the "implied violence" that is likely if she resists. So do you get raped and get out of there or do you get your ### beat or killed and still get raped and maybe get out of there.That's the calculus that is going on for girls who don't go down screaming and fighting. Some guys might poopoo it but I've heard the sentiment shared enough to believe its real.

Along these lines, I believe it was rape. But her actions leading up to it and failing to verbalize non-consent means it's probably extremely difficult if not impossible to prosecute.

Oh yeah, there's no way this guy would even be prosecuted, let alone convicted. Doesn't mean it wasn't rape.

Exhibit A for the yes means yes law. Now these dirtbags can get prosecuted

yeah I'm gonna need you to sign this before I put my #### in you, and this entire thing is on video.

 

[tdoss]

Sorry but I don't consider this rape. Aggressive yes...but how is dude supposed to know she wasn't down?

Pretty simple rule of thumb here: if you have to physically restrain someone to get them to have sex with you (unless they've actually asked for that) then they're not down.

True...but this doesn't sound like a whole lot of restraining. Even through this telephone game of OP telling us her story...she admits to being carried up to his room as a "turn on".

She establishes that she likes a guy to take charge. He said let's go up to my room...she says not right now. He takes a shot and carries her. She gets turned on.

That tells him she likes it when he's assertive.

If at any point she says "No"...then we could consider this rape.

This just sounds like a mess of a girl who is probably nothing but drama in every stage of her life.

She herself said she didn't consider it rape.

 

[NCCommish]

If she didnt express it verbally thst she did welcome it I cant consider a rape. It sounds like she got in to it. Some women get off on rape play in the bedroom.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that you have no idea what women get off on.

I have never been with a womsn

No ####

It is true that some women like it a little rough and they expect you to pick up on that and roll with it, If they have to explain it it ruins it for them. Even act like they are not into it until they are getting near their orgasm.Cuddle right up after. Been there, done that.

So given the allowing him to carry her upstairs, undress her and apparently get into a little foreplay I can see misreading that for the average guy. Although this guy doesn't sound like his intentions were probably ever good and he was going to do what he wanted,

 

[SIDA!]

If she didnt express it verbally thst she did welcome it I cant consider a rape. It sounds like she got in to it. Some women get off on rape play in the bedroom.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that you have no idea what women get off on.

I have been with a woman who liked rape fantasies/rough play. Not sure why you are taking a run at this guy.

 

[Zow]

If she didnt express it verbally thst she did welcome it I cant consider a rape. It sounds like she got in to it. Some women get off on rape play in the bedroom.

If it were rape play, I doubt she'd be speaking about it as a negative experience.

 

[SIDA!]

I think a lot of guys don't understand the "implied violence" that is likely if she resists. So do you get raped and get out of there or do you get your ### beat or killed and still get raped and maybe get out of there.That's the calculus that is going on for girls who don't go down screaming and fighting. Some guys might poopoo it but I've heard the sentiment shared enough to believe its real.

Along these lines, I believe it was rape. But her actions leading up to it and failing to verbalize non-consent means it's probably extremely difficult if not impossible to prosecute.

Oh yeah, there's no way this guy would even be prosecuted, let alone convicted. Doesn't mean it wasn't rape.

Exhibit A for the yes means yes law. Now these dirtbags can get prosecuted

yeah I'm gonna need you to sign this before I put my #### in you, and this entire thing is on video.

That is about what it is coming down to...

 

[Niles Standish]

I had a close friend who was raped. She never said no either. Felt like she couldn't for whatever reason. From the way she described it, no probably wouldn't have stopped anything. I think being quiet and trying to go away mentally isn't that uncommon.

Absent brute force from an unknown assailant, it can't possibly be construed as rape if the woman doesn't attempt to resist verbally or physically.

I disagree. I might not have a few years ago. But life has a way of changing beliefs.

 

[cstu]

He then picks her up and carries her into the bedroom. She admits that she thought it was a turn on that he did that and gets a little caught up in the moment.

He picks her up, she plays along like she's having fun and then claims she was raped without ever saying no or stop?

Technically rape but I can see how the guy could do this thinking it was part of her game.

 

[[icon]]

I had a close friend who was raped. She never said no either. Felt like she couldn't for whatever reason. From the way she described it, no probably wouldn't have stopped anything. I think being quiet and trying to go away mentally isn't that uncommon.

Absent brute force from an unknown assailant, it can't possibly be construed as rape if the woman doesn't attempt to resist verbally or physically.

I disagree. I might not have a few years ago. But life has a way of changing beliefs.

Explain how it's possible consider it rape if the woman is conscious/alert and does not object?

 

[cstu]

It is true that some women like it a little rough and they expect you to pick up on that and roll with it, If they have to explain it it ruins it for them. Even act like they are not into it until they are getting near their orgasm.Cuddle right up after. Been there, done that.

So given the allowing him to carry her upstairs, undress her and apparently get into a little foreplay I can see misreading that for the average guy. Although this guy doesn't sound like his intentions were probably ever good and he was going to do what he wanted,

After she said she didn't think it was a 'good idea' to go the the bedroom he picked her up and she had fun with it. If it was me I would assume that's how she wanted it to be.

Rape is one of those things that pretty easy to recognize when you see it so if she had a look of 'omg how do I get this guy to stop' then that's rape. Tough to gauge that from what she told PG.

 

[MC Gas Money]

If she didnt express it verbally thst she did welcome it I cant consider a rape. It sounds like she got in to it. Some women get off on rape play in the bedroom.

If it were rape play, I doubt she'd be speaking about it as a negative experience.

Plenty of women did things willingly that they later consider a negative experience.

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

If she didnt express it verbally thst she did welcome it I cant consider a rape. It sounds like she got in to it. Some women get off on rape play in the bedroom.

If it were rape play, I doubt she'd be speaking about it as a negative experience.

Plenty of women did things willingly that they later consider a negative experience.

Like having sex with you?

 

[cstu]

This.

I actually felt kind of conflicted the first time I read through. I felt a little uncomfortable reading it, wondering if I'd ever been a little rapey in my younger days.

This is good. When researchers interview women about sexual assault, they find that many more women admit to having been assaulted than have been reported. Which presents a conundrum. We can choose to believe that these women have a self-deception problem where they somehow convince themselves after the fact that they have never consented, or men have a problem in misconstruing consent.

I think men should genuinely ask themselves how a woman they've been with would answer a future sexual assault researcher's question. From being on this board, I think a lot of potentially rapey behavior goes kind of unmentioned. Things like saying that you have to put a women in a situation where "she makes bad decisions" or that a shy guy has to "take control of the situation."

I don't think that makes those guys monsters, but I think they're wrong if they think they are genuinely getting consent. And I think its appropriate for the law to reflect that their mistaken beliefs aren't reasonable.

So you're saying I should have stayed a virgin?

 

[MC Gas Money]

If she didnt express it verbally thst she did welcome it I cant consider a rape. It sounds like she got in to it. Some women get off on rape play in the bedroom.

If it were rape play, I doubt she'd be speaking about it as a negative experience.

Plenty of women did things willingly that they later consider a negative experience.

Like having sex with you?

Your wife said that?

 

[AAABatteries]

Read the OP 3 times - strictly looking at it from a legal standpoint there is no way I would convict the guy. Should he have stopped after she said she didn't think it was a good idea? Yes.

I'd be curious to know what, if anything, was said after that and before he picked her up. Would want to know how much they both drank, what she means by snapping out of it, what was said while her undressed her. Ultimately the guy sounds like a scumbag but not a rapist. Also curious if OP changed the language or wording to make it sound like an assault. No offense intended PG - just giving my take

 

[Clifford]

Sorry but I don't consider this rape. Aggressive yes...but how is dude supposed to know she wasn't down?

Pretty simple rule of thumb here: if you have to physically restrain someone to get them to have sex with you (unless they've actually asked for that) then they're not down.

yeah, the more I think about this, being the first time, yeah, I think this dude knew he was going too far.

 

[Niles Standish]

I had a close friend who was raped. She never said no either. Felt like she couldn't for whatever reason. From the way she described it, no probably wouldn't have stopped anything. I think being quiet and trying to go away mentally isn't that uncommon.

Absent brute force from an unknown assailant, it can't possibly be construed as rape if the woman doesn't attempt to resist verbally or physically.

I disagree. I might not have a few years ago. But life has a way of changing beliefs.

Explain how it's possible consider it rape if the woman is conscious/alert and does not object?

You're moving the bar.

 

[Green and Gold]

[SIZE=14.3999996185303px]Please treat this topic with respect.[/SIZE]

I recently had a girl I have become friends with tell me about something that happened to her about 5 years ago.

She met a guy that would come into where she worked. They exchanged numbers and after talking back and forth some she would hang out with him after work. Typical good night kiss that progressed to a little more over time. One night has asked her over to his house for some dinner and drinks and she accepts. After dinner they start to watch a movie and as you expect they start fooling around. He asks her to go to the bedroom and she says I don't think that's a good idea right now. He then picks her up and carries her into the bedroom. She admits that she thought it was a turn on that he did that and gets a little caught up in the moment. He undresses her but as he is getting undressed she snaps out of it or however you want to put it. She is laying on the bed at this point and starts to raise up. As she does this, he some what forcefully pushes her back down on the bed. She puts her hands on his chest to push him away and he smashes her arms against her and begins to have sex with her. Her arms are pinned on her chest in-between the 2 of them. She never said don't or stop, said at this point she was afraid to. She said the sex was very rough and felt wrong. She also said all she wanted was for him to finish so it would be over. She told me she just went some where else in her mind as well.

She honestly didn't paint it as a forced situation, and just talked about it being one of the worst nights of her life, biggest regret...etc. I was the one that said that it sounded like date rape. She just replied with "kinda".

One last note I tried to look this guy up and can find no trace of him. I find it very odd that I can't.

Definitely rape the way it's presented.

The last sentence makes me think of a girl in college who made up a case of being assaulted. To make a very long story short, she did it simply because she wanted the positive attention. She wasn't trying to pin it on some guy who didn't do anything, she literally made the entire thing up.

I'm not saying that's what this girl is doing, but little clues like the one you mentioned were eventually how we found out she was lying.

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

If she didnt express it verbally thst she did welcome it I cant consider a rape. It sounds like she got in to it. Some women get off on rape play in the bedroom.

If it were rape play, I doubt she'd be speaking about it as a negative experience.

Plenty of women did things willingly that they later consider a negative experience.

Like having sex with you?

Your wife said that?

My wife said "like having sex with you"?