What a Jack### (1 Viewer)

[yellowdog]

If this isn't the biggest case of  ever, then I don't know what is. I guarantee you that I could search for and find at least 10 instances of the Eagles signing a contract with a player, then cutting him(thus going back on their contract).

But how many times did they ask for the signing bonus back?

never. I don't understand that point...its not like TO is asking for another signing bonus as he leaves.

The signing bonus is just that: a bonus for signing your name. And after that, both sides have the right IN THE NFL(I capitalize this because clearly its not like this in the rest of the real world) to demand more or less annual pay based upon how well/poorly the player performs.

Blatantly wrong! Under the current agreement, the players do not have that right.Edit to add: Anyone has the RIGHT to do this. But contractually, the player doesn't have the right.

 

[jwvdcw]

Am I crazy or does what you're saying happen all the time? A player has a bad year and they force him to take a pay cut or be cut!

You need to read the same link that I posted for ko-jaxx.If you do, you will realize that you may, in fact, be crazy.

Isn't Owens set to make significantly less this year?? I thought that was the reason he is doing this. Like a 1/3 of what he made last year.. If that is the case I have no problem with him wanting more. He was worth every penny he got last year.

Knowing this, then why did Owens agree to the terms of the contract then? There's no logic to the statement that he should be wanting more money then. He was the one that wanted out of SF, then out of Baltimore specifically to sign w/ Philly. He got his way (out of SF & BAL) to sign w/ the team of his choosing. He signed his (long term) contract. He was the one that signed the contract, knowing the bonus and annual terms up front. This whole me-me-me-me-me show that Owens is producing does not come as a surprise.

ONCE AGAIN...how is this any different than a team knowingly signing a player to a long term deal and then cutting him 1/2 way through it?You all continue to say how unfair it is for TO to do this, yet most of you(not all) are failing to even acknowledge the fact that owners do the same thing all the time.

 

[P Boy]

I just clicked on it and found a discussion about Edge

Here:LINKI made it easier for you.Please read it carefully. Seriously.It may enhance your understanding.

 

[Wheelhouse]

The best thing for the Eagles to do, if they don't want to give in (which I believe they should not) is not to trade him, not to play him and not to cut him. Let him sit by himself. Doesn't he owe money to the Eagles if he doesn't honor a contract? Isn't he fined for missing camp, missing games, etc?

Owens will quickly learn that he's not going anywhere and if he wants to make any coin (for his family) he'll suit up and shut his mouth.

Isn't ALL OF THIS completely up to what the Eagles organization decides to do?

 

[Otis]

TO played amazingly last year and far outperformed his contract, so he wants more money. I see nothing wrong with that.

"Outperformed" his contract.That's agent-speak. Please, would someone expalin to me how a player outperforms his contract? Was it in his contract that the contract will be declared null & void if he reaches certain performance milestones?

This talk of "outperforming" a contract is patently nonsense.

Exactly - what about last year was so different than what he did in 2000, 2001 and 2002 - one would have to believe that those years were used as measuring sticks in the contract he already signed - he's performing up to his standard, imo.

As had already been said, TO had no leverage last year with the whole Baltimore situation- he had to go to whichever team traded for him. Now he has more leverage, and as a smart businessman, hes trying to take advantage.

What "leverage" does he have?

Other than the fact that he is arguably the best player in the game at his position and is coming off a gutsy Super Bowl performance where he came back prematurely from an injury and gave the most spirited performance of any Eagle?How about the prospect of the Eagles being stuck with Pinkston as their #1 wideout again? If that's not leverage enough...

 

[jwvdcw]

These babies ..yes..that is what someone who holds their breath to get what they want..even if they already have something good.. are really getting annoying.

Hey Owens, go talk to Randal Cunningham and ask him what REAL work was like..working as a laborer putting down tiles for a living before he came back to football. He finally understood what the comman man has to go thru to make a dollar.

I really hope Philly does not give in, nor trades him. Let him sit at home..and rot.  Hopefully other teams will see this..and not give him another dime...

Hell..give me 10% of what his pay is, and I would be set

Yeah, and give me 10 percent of an NFL owner's pay and I'll be set....why are they any less greedy when they cut an unproductive player? TO played amazingly last year and far outperformed his contract, so he wants more money. I see nothing wrong with that.

There's nothing wrong with wanting more money. Hell, I want more money and I get paid pretty well and do little at times. It's the way you go about it in which he's wrong. The guy made himself a mess with his demands to get out of SF and his "I'm bigger than the league rules" fiasco with Baltimore, signed a contract his union advised him against and now he uses the press to rip his QB, compare his situation to Jesus and claim he needs more dough for the sake of his family. And he's threatening to not honor his contract. A man who doesn't honor his word isn't a man. He's free to terminate himself, just like an owner could do to him, but as long as he's not honoring his 1 year old contract he was told was bad he's nothing but a contract breaking, teammate stabbing, cry-baby scrub.And some of you thought he'd change when he got out of his "horrible" situation in SF. If it smells like a rat...

I totally agree that TO is a jerk- don't get me wrong. And I do agree that he could go about certain things in much better ways. I'm not really fighting for TO here in particular, but I am fighting for a player's right to demand more money AS LONG AS A TEAM HAS THE RIGHT TO CUT A PLAYER WHO IS UNDER CONTRACT.

"A man who doesn't honor his word isn't a man. "- So I guess you think that every owner in the league isn't a man then?

 

[larz]

"Legally, both of them clearly have the right to do it, as both sides have done this in the past and I've never heard of either the player or the team being arrested for doing it."Nobody gets arrested for breach of a player contract, its not a criminal offense. In certain circumstances, such as RW, one party could potentially sue to recover certain amounts.

 

[jurb26]

These babies ..yes..that is what someone who holds their breath to get what they want..even if they already have something good.. are really getting annoying.

Hey Owens, go talk to Randal Cunningham and ask him what REAL work was like..working as a laborer putting down tiles for a living before he came back to football. He finally understood what the comman man has to go thru to make a dollar.

I really hope Philly does not give in, nor trades him. Let him sit at home..and rot. Hopefully other teams will see this..and not give him another dime...

Hell..give me 10% of what his pay is, and I would be set

Yeah, and give me 10 percent of an NFL owner's pay and I'll be set....why are they any less greedy when they cut an unproductive player? TO played amazingly last year and far outperformed his contract, so he wants more money. I see nothing wrong with that.

There's nothing wrong with wanting more money. Hell, I want more money and I get paid pretty well and do little at times. It's the way you go about it in which he's wrong. The guy made himself a mess with his demands to get out of SF and his "I'm bigger than the league rules" fiasco with Baltimore, signed a contract his union advised him against and now he uses the press to rip his QB, compare his situation to Jesus and claim he needs more dough for the sake of his family. And he's threatening to not honor his contract. A man who doesn't honor his word isn't a man. He's free to terminate himself, just like an owner could do to him, but as long as he's not honoring his 1 year old contract he was told was bad he's nothing but a contract breaking, teammate stabbing, cry-baby scrub.And some of you thought he'd change when he got out of his "horrible" situation in SF. If it smells like a rat...

I totally agree that TO is a jerk- don't get me wrong. And I do agree that he could go about certain things in much better ways. I'm not really fighting for TO here in particular, but I am fighting for a player's right to demand more money AS LONG AS A TEAM HAS THE RIGHT TO CUT A PLAYER WHO IS UNDER CONTRACT.

"A man who doesn't honor his word isn't a man. "- So I guess you think that every owner in the league isn't a man then?

Please for the love of god, read PBs thread that he linked for you!

 

[jwvdcw]

If this isn't the biggest case of  ever, then I don't know what is. I guarantee you that I could search for and find at least 10 instances of the Eagles signing a contract with a player, then cutting him(thus going back on their contract).

But how many times did they ask for the signing bonus back?

never. I don't understand that point...its not like TO is asking for another signing bonus as he leaves.

The signing bonus is just that: a bonus for signing your name. And after that, both sides have the right IN THE NFL(I capitalize this because clearly its not like this in the rest of the real world) to demand more or less annual pay based upon how well/poorly the player performs.

Blatantly wrong! Under the current agreement, the players do not have that right.Edit to add: Anyone has the RIGHT to do this. But contractually, the player doesn't have the right.

Honestly, I'm willing to listen to you if I'm wrong....so can you please provide some evidence to this. How do the owners have this right but not the players? And furthermore, is it not an unwritten rule that the players do have this right?

 

[P Boy]

"Legally, both of them clearly have the right to do it, as both sides have done this in the past and I've never heard of either the player or the team being arrested for doing it."

Nobody gets arrested for breach of a player contract, its not a criminal offense. In certain circumstances, such as RW, one party could potentially sue to recover certain amounts.

Breaches of contract are almost exclusively civil matters, not criminal matters.That's why no one gets arrested.

 

[yellowdog]

These babies ..yes..that is what someone who holds their breath to get what they want..even if they already have something good.. are really getting annoying.

Hey Owens, go talk to Randal Cunningham and ask him what REAL work was like..working as a laborer putting down tiles for a living before he came back to football. He finally understood what the comman man has to go thru to make a dollar.

I really hope Philly does not give in, nor trades him. Let him sit at home..and rot.  Hopefully other teams will see this..and not give him another dime...

Hell..give me 10% of what his pay is, and I would be set

Yeah, and give me 10 percent of an NFL owner's pay and I'll be set....why are they any less greedy when they cut an unproductive player? TO played amazingly last year and far outperformed his contract, so he wants more money. I see nothing wrong with that.

There's nothing wrong with wanting more money. Hell, I want more money and I get paid pretty well and do little at times. It's the way you go about it in which he's wrong. The guy made himself a mess with his demands to get out of SF and his "I'm bigger than the league rules" fiasco with Baltimore, signed a contract his union advised him against and now he uses the press to rip his QB, compare his situation to Jesus and claim he needs more dough for the sake of his family. And he's threatening to not honor his contract. A man who doesn't honor his word isn't a man. He's free to terminate himself, just like an owner could do to him, but as long as he's not honoring his 1 year old contract he was told was bad he's nothing but a contract breaking, teammate stabbing, cry-baby scrub.And some of you thought he'd change when he got out of his "horrible" situation in SF. If it smells like a rat...

I totally agree that TO is a jerk- don't get me wrong. And I do agree that he could go about certain things in much better ways. I'm not really fighting for TO here in particular, but I am fighting for a player's right to demand more money AS LONG AS A TEAM HAS THE RIGHT TO CUT A PLAYER WHO IS UNDER CONTRACT.

"A man who doesn't honor his word isn't a man. "- So I guess you think that every owner in the league isn't a man then?

Have you read Pony Boy's post yet? Please try to gain a reasonable understanding of the NFL collective bargaining agreement before you continue this discussion. TIA

 

[Giantseasonticketholder]

Well from this Giants fan's perspective, this is sure fun to watch If the Eagles cave, they are fools. If I can support my family on what I make a year, I'm sure TO can do the same with 8million per year over the next 6.Psst... TO,If you endear yourself to the fans now, they will ensure you are taken care of long after your career is over...unless you behead your estranged wife and the dude she's hanging out with.

 

[JaxBill]

TO played amazingly last year and far outperformed his contract, so he wants more money. I see nothing wrong with that.

"Outperformed" his contract.That's agent-speak. Please, would someone expalin to me how a player outperforms his contract? Was it in his contract that the contract will be declared null & void if he reaches certain performance milestones?

This talk of "outperforming" a contract is patently nonsense.

Exactly - what about last year was so different than what he did in 2000, 2001 and 2002 - one would have to believe that those years were used as measuring sticks in the contract he already signed - he's performing up to his standard, imo.

As had already been said, TO had no leverage last year with the whole Baltimore situation- he had to go to whichever team traded for him. Now he has more leverage, and as a smart businessman, hes trying to take advantage.

What "leverage" does he have?

Other than the fact that he is arguably the best player in the game at his position and is coming off a gutsy Super Bowl performance where he came back prematurely from an injury and gave the most spirited performance of any Eagle?How about the prospect of the Eagles being stuck with Pinkston as their #1 wideout again? If that's not leverage enough...

The Eagles have already said that they're not budging. Everything in their history says they're not budging. TO has 2 choices:1) Report to camp and play and make 3.5 Mil.

2) Sit home , get fined 9K a day, and lose 1.8 Mil from the signing bonus.

 

[BlueOnion]

It is worth noting that a free agent can ask for a signing bonsu (almost all do). And regardless of how the player actually plays, this money cannot be renogiated.

Player A can significantly outplay his signing bonus and the player cannot go back ask a team to increase the value of the signing bonus he has already played. You should have actually given me 3 more million in my signing bonus two years ago.

Likewise, if a player significantly under performs his signing bonus, a team is not a lot to cut the player and ask for the signing bonus back.

Other aspects of NFL contracts, are according to the rules a compilation of multiple year-to-year contracts.

 

[jwvdcw]

I just clicked on it and found a discussion about Edge

Here:LINK

I made it easier for you.

Please read it carefully. Seriously.

It may enhance your understanding.

Basically, what you're saying is this(correct me if I'm wrong): 1.The owners take a huge risk with the signing bonuses.

2.This is obviously an advantage to the players.

I'm with you on those first two points. However, your next few steps are invalid imo:

3.Because of #1 and #2, the owners deserve the assurance that the player will play out his contract.

I disagree with this leap in logic. Just because Side A gives in to one thing, doesn't mean that Side B is forced to give into another separate issue. You write:

"However, in return for taking this kind of up-front risk (and giving a more substantial sum in terms of future money value), the owners want to ensure that in developing the player that they will retain the player's services for an extended period of time. That's a vey realistic expectation."

Ok....yes they WANT to ensure that, but can they ensure that? No. I'm sorry, but they just can't.

Furthermore, you write:

"The players, in turn, get a sizable chunk of money up front (again, we have the advantage of the basic principle of time/value of money) - money that is guaranteed unless they violate their end of the contract - and then also have the assurity of long term employment provided that their performance meets what management considers comparable value to the team."

So if a player chooses to void his contract(Rick Williams), then he gives back some of the signing bonus...ok, I can agree with that. That still doesn't change the fact that the player has the option to void the contract(and thus give back part of the signing bonus).

"Both sides understand this agreement. Both sides understand - or should understand - the risks and benefits of their part in the agreement. That the players don't get it despite "outperforming" their contract - a highly debatable point - only shows that they have received some very poor advice & representation from their agent. I don't see how that's the team's fault in any way, shape, or form."

I totally disagree that "both sides understand" your interpretation of the agreement. Cleary, the players have the advantage since they are the skilled labor and the ones that make the league go. Clearly, they don't understand whatever you're saying.

 

[Deranged Hermit]

All this banter is completely pointless. Owens is under contract to the Eagles for SIX MORE YEARS. This is not the same situation as Galloway years ago when he played 6 games and became a f/a because he contract was up.If the Eagles want to, they can hold him hostage for 6 years at almost zero cost to themselves personally with all the fines and lost game checks. Add to that that TO has to pay back 1.8 million of his signing bonus and the only thing the Eagles have to lose is cap space each year. I admit I don't know what Owens' cap his is in eack year, but I think that his salary inflates back up next year, but is pretty modest the two years after that.Owens has ZERO leverage. In fact, if it's possible, he has less than zero leverage.

 

[jwvdcw]

The best thing for the Eagles to do, if they don't want to give in (which I believe they should not) is not to trade him, not to play him and not to cut him. Let him sit by himself. Doesn't he owe money to the Eagles if he doesn't honor a contract? Isn't he fined for missing camp, missing games, etc?

Owens will quickly learn that he's not going anywhere and if he wants to make any coin (for his family) he'll suit up and shut his mouth.

Isn't ALL OF THIS completely up to what the Eagles organization decides to do?

They could very well do that, but remember that some teams have tried this and it didn't work out too well....

In a part-time role, Dallas Cowboys running back Emmitt Smith recently proved just how valuable he is to the defending Super Bowl champs.

After he ended his holdout on a Thursday, Smith suited up for Week 3 against the Phoenix Cardinals to assist the Cowboys to a 17-10 victory.

The Cowboys lost to Buffalo and Washington without the versatile running back, but with him running the ball sparingly, the offense clicked into gear.

Smith reached an agreement with Cowboys owner Jerry Jones that will reportedly make him the highest-paid running back in football

"I got what I wanted. I wanted to be the highest-paid running back in the NFL," Smith said of the four-year deal estimated at $13.6 million.

Smith and Jones signed a contract during a news conference and Jones called the deal a "win-win" situation.

"Both sides gave in on this one. We gave him a lot of front-end dollars, so it won't hurt us when the salary cap begins next year," Jones explained.

 

[BlueOnion]

Basically, what you're saying is this(correct me if I'm wrong):

1.The owners take a huge risk with the signing bonuses.

2.This is obviously an advantage to the players.

I'm with you on those first two points. However, your next few steps are invalid imo:

3.Because of #1 and #2, the owners deserve the assurance that the player will play out his contract.

I disagree with this leap in logic. Just because Side A gives in to one thing, doesn't mean that Side B is forced to give into another separate issue. You write:

I think the underlying point in the TO case is this;NFL contracts can be structured many ways and customized during negotiations to suite the needs of both parties involved. In this case the two parties involved are TO and the Eagles; forget about Rosenhaus and whoever else TO has working for him - this is between TO and the Eagles.

So TO negotiated a contract he was very happy with 1 year ago. Doesn't it sound crazy that TO would want to come back a year later and ask for his contract to be reworked? It makes no sense.

 

[jwvdcw]

These babies ..yes..that is what someone who holds their breath to get what they want..even if they already have something good.. are really getting annoying.

Hey Owens, go talk to Randal Cunningham and ask him what REAL work was like..working as a laborer putting down tiles for a living before he came back to football. He finally understood what the comman man has to go thru to make a dollar.

I really hope Philly does not give in, nor trades him. Let him sit at home..and rot.  Hopefully other teams will see this..and not give him another dime...

Hell..give me 10% of what his pay is, and I would be set

Yeah, and give me 10 percent of an NFL owner's pay and I'll be set....why are they any less greedy when they cut an unproductive player? TO played amazingly last year and far outperformed his contract, so he wants more money. I see nothing wrong with that.

There's nothing wrong with wanting more money. Hell, I want more money and I get paid pretty well and do little at times. It's the way you go about it in which he's wrong. The guy made himself a mess with his demands to get out of SF and his "I'm bigger than the league rules" fiasco with Baltimore, signed a contract his union advised him against and now he uses the press to rip his QB, compare his situation to Jesus and claim he needs more dough for the sake of his family. And he's threatening to not honor his contract. A man who doesn't honor his word isn't a man. He's free to terminate himself, just like an owner could do to him, but as long as he's not honoring his 1 year old contract he was told was bad he's nothing but a contract breaking, teammate stabbing, cry-baby scrub.And some of you thought he'd change when he got out of his "horrible" situation in SF. If it smells like a rat...

I totally agree that TO is a jerk- don't get me wrong. And I do agree that he could go about certain things in much better ways. I'm not really fighting for TO here in particular, but I am fighting for a player's right to demand more money AS LONG AS A TEAM HAS THE RIGHT TO CUT A PLAYER WHO IS UNDER CONTRACT.

"A man who doesn't honor his word isn't a man. "- So I guess you think that every owner in the league isn't a man then?

Have you read Pony Boy's post yet? Please try to gain a reasonable understanding of the NFL collective bargaining agreement before you continue this discussion. TIA

Yes I read it- From what I saw, it contains no quotes whatsoever from the CBA, but rather is just his opinion as to what the players should be giving in return for their guaranteed contracts. Clearly, I(and the players) disagree with him.

 

[jwvdcw]

Basically, what you're saying is this(correct me if I'm wrong):

1.The owners take a huge risk with the signing bonuses.

2.This is obviously an advantage to the players.

I'm with you on those first two points. However, your next few steps are invalid imo:

3.Because of #1 and #2, the owners deserve the assurance that the player will play out his contract.

I disagree with this leap in logic. Just because Side A gives in to one thing, doesn't mean that Side B is forced to give into another separate issue. You write:

I think the underlying point in the TO case is this;NFL contracts can be structured many ways and customized during negotiations to suite the needs of both parties involved. In this case the two parties involved are TO and the Eagles; forget about Rosenhaus and whoever else TO has working for him - this is between TO and the Eagles.

So TO negotiated a contract he was very happy with 1 year ago. Doesn't it sound crazy that TO would want to come back a year later and ask for his contract to be reworked? It makes no sense.

I really don't feel like searching, but I assure you that I could find a case of a team signing a player to a long term contract then cutting him or forcing him to restructure only one year later.

 

[Deranged Hermit]

The best thing for the Eagles to do, if they don't want to give in (which I believe they should not) is not to trade him, not to play him and not to cut him.  Let him sit by himself.  Doesn't he owe money to the Eagles if he doesn't honor a contract?  Isn't he fined for missing camp, missing games, etc?

Owens will quickly learn that he's not going anywhere and if he wants to make any coin (for his family) he'll suit up and shut his mouth.

Isn't ALL OF THIS completely up to what the Eagles organization decides to do?

They could very well do that, but remember that some teams have tried this and it didn't work out too well....

In a part-time role, Dallas Cowboys running back Emmitt Smith recently proved just how valuable he is to the defending Super Bowl champs.

After he ended his holdout on a Thursday, Smith suited up for Week 3 against the Phoenix Cardinals to assist the Cowboys to a 17-10 victory.

The Cowboys lost to Buffalo and Washington without the versatile running back, but with him running the ball sparingly, the offense clicked into gear.

Smith reached an agreement with Cowboys owner Jerry Jones that will reportedly make him the highest-paid running back in football

"I got what I wanted. I wanted to be the highest-paid running back in the NFL," Smith said of the four-year deal estimated at $13.6 million.

Smith and Jones signed a contract during a news conference and Jones called the deal a "win-win" situation.

"Both sides gave in on this one. We gave him a lot of front-end dollars, so it won't hurt us when the salary cap begins next year," Jones explained.

Your Emmitt comparison is not valid. That was done in the non-salary cap era if I remember correctly, hence the large front loaded contract . BIIIIIIIGGGGG dirrference there.

 

[larz]

I was reading this from an article:"Last offseason, just as Owens appeared on the verge of being declared a free agent by NFL special master Stephen Burbank after Joseph failed to file the necessary paperwork on time, Owens agreed to a settlement that placed him with the Eagles. Union chief Gene Upshaw said at the time that before Owens agreed to the settlement, he asked Owens if the wideout indeed wanted to bypass free agency to go to the Eagles, and Owens said yes. Rosenhaus and Owens now say that Owens had no leverage in negotiations with the Eagles and was forced to accept a below-market-value deal."So if true, Owens could have possibly scored a better deal as a FA. Why did he want Philly, anyone recall?

 

[BlueOnion]

I really don't feel like searching, but I assure you that I could find a case of a team signing a player to a long term contract then cutting him or forcing him to restructure only one year later.

What would be your point? Heck, I will concede such a scenario happened. I even think it happened this offseason with Lavernous Coles. The team wanted him to restructure his contract, and Coles said 'no'.So it is a two-way street here.

 

[Dhamon ShadowHawk]

From the CBA(d) During the period any Salary Cap is in effect, in addition to any rights a Club may presently have under the NFL Player Contract, any Player Contract may be terminated if, in the Club’s opinion, the player being terminated is anticipated to make less of a contribution to the Club’s ability to compete on the playing field than another player or players whom the Club intends to sign or attempt to sign, or another player or players who is or are already on the roster of such Club, and for whom the Club needs Room. This paragraph shall not affect any Club or Club Affiliate’s obligation to pay a player any guaranteed consideration.

 

[jwvdcw]

The best thing for the Eagles to do, if they don't want to give in (which I believe they should not) is not to trade him, not to play him and not to cut him.  Let him sit by himself.  Doesn't he owe money to the Eagles if he doesn't honor a contract?  Isn't he fined for missing camp, missing games, etc?

Owens will quickly learn that he's not going anywhere and if he wants to make any coin (for his family) he'll suit up and shut his mouth.

Isn't ALL OF THIS completely up to what the Eagles organization decides to do?

They could very well do that, but remember that some teams have tried this and it didn't work out too well....

In a part-time role, Dallas Cowboys running back Emmitt Smith recently proved just how valuable he is to the defending Super Bowl champs.

After he ended his holdout on a Thursday, Smith suited up for Week 3 against the Phoenix Cardinals to assist the Cowboys to a 17-10 victory.

The Cowboys lost to Buffalo and Washington without the versatile running back, but with him running the ball sparingly, the offense clicked into gear.

Smith reached an agreement with Cowboys owner Jerry Jones that will reportedly make him the highest-paid running back in football

"I got what I wanted. I wanted to be the highest-paid running back in the NFL," Smith said of the four-year deal estimated at $13.6 million.

Smith and Jones signed a contract during a news conference and Jones called the deal a "win-win" situation.

"Both sides gave in on this one. We gave him a lot of front-end dollars, so it won't hurt us when the salary cap begins next year," Jones explained.

Your Emmitt comparison is not valid. That was done in the non-salary cap era if I remember correctly, hence the large front loaded contract . BIIIIIIIGGGGG dirrference there.

Oh don't get me wrong....I'm not comparing the ethics of their holdouts; I'm simply saying that for a team to say "we don't need him" and take a hard stance doesn't always work out.

 

[jwvdcw]

I really don't feel like searching, but I assure you that I could find a case of a team signing a player to a long term contract then cutting him or forcing him to restructure only one year later.

What would be your point? Heck, I will concede such a scenario happened. I even think it happened this offseason with Lavernous Coles. The team wanted him to restructure his contract, and Coles said 'no'.So it is a two-way street here.

I was responding to this statement:So TO negotiated a contract he was very happy with 1 year ago. Doesn't it sound crazy that TO would want to come back a year later and ask for his contract to be reworked? It makes no sense.

 

[P Boy]

Yes I read it- From what I saw, it contains no quotes whatsoever from the CBA, but rather is just his opinion as to what the players should be giving in return for their guaranteed contracts. Clearly, I(and the players) disagree with him.

Then you need to read the CBA. My opinion is based on it. Your opinion is based upon your definition of "fair", which has nothing to do with the way NFL contracts work.

 

[Capella]

well documented how much I dislike the Eagles (well, their fans more than the team I suppose)...but I love how they're breaking this guy.

 

[wannabee]

I saw the interview. TO said he is just trying to provide for his family.

 

[yellowdog]

From the CBA

(d) During the period any Salary Cap is in effect, in addition to any rights a Club may presently have under the NFL Player Contract, any Player Contract may be terminated if, in the Club’s opinion, the player being terminated is anticipated to make less of a contribution to the Club’s ability to compete on the playing field than another player or players whom the Club intends to sign or attempt to sign, or another player or players who is or are already on the roster of such Club, and for whom the Club needs Room. This paragraph shall not affect any Club or Club Affiliate’s obligation to pay a player any guaranteed consideration.

I was about to post this.Article XIV, section 5 (d) for exact reference.

 

[mbuehner]

The other thing is nobody held a gun to TOs head and made him sign a 7 year contract. He could have insisted on a 1 or 2 year contract and become a free agent. But he didnt. Thats his problem.For all the TO defenders, is there anything wrong with the Eagles giving TO the finger and letting him sit home and get fined?

 

[ko-jaxx]

The other thing is nobody held a gun to TOs head and made him sign a 7 year contract. He could have insisted on a 1 or 2 year contract and become a free agent. But he didnt. Thats his problem.

For all the TO defenders, is there anything wrong with the Eagles giving TO the finger and letting him sit home and get fined?

no,just like there is nothing wrong with TO giving philly the finger and sitting home demanding more $$$

 

[-OZ-]

The other thing is nobody held a gun to TOs head and made him sign a 7 year contract. He could have insisted on a 1 or 2 year contract and become a free agent. But he didnt. Thats his problem.

For all the TO defenders, is there anything wrong with the Eagles giving TO the finger and letting him sit home and get fined?

Not at all. It's his choice. No need for the finger.

 

[BigRed]

Who would trade for him and give him the money he wants? 

Really, what team wants to take on this mess?He needs to stopdoing interviews. For real, T.O., let Rosenhaus be the scumbag, ho loves it. Be quiet. Only bad things can happen if you keep talking.

Don't be hatin on the 2d coming now. :X And you couldn't be more wrong. Amazing and revolting as it is, no matter how many completely asinine things he says or does, bad things DON'T happen to him. He gets what he wants - every time. Worse, the NFL and many fans (and of course the kiss-#### media) are more than willing to look the other way. Anyone defending this POS has to be by definition comatose and/or make Howard Stern's standards look high.

He is a perfect microcosm of what's wrong with "professional" sports today and why I scarcely even watch games anymore, ie anything goes and anything (up to and including felonies) are given a slap on the wrist, if that....to say nothing of the obnoxious, bratty attitudes. Yeah I know, I'm a dinosaur....I miss when the players on the field were actual men, not dotted with ranting spoiled childen who couldn't care less about sportsmanship, or anything but themselves.

If not for FF, I'd probably have almost no interest in the NFL at all, despite how much I love the game. GB college and HS football.

[/rant]

 

[mad sweeney]

TO played amazingly last year and far outperformed his contract, so he wants more money. I see nothing wrong with that.

"Outperformed" his contract.That's agent-speak. Please, would someone expalin to me how a player outperforms his contract? Was it in his contract that the contract will be declared null & void if he reaches certain performance milestones?

This talk of "outperforming" a contract is patently nonsense.

Exactly - what about last year was so different than what he did in 2000, 2001 and 2002 - one would have to believe that those years were used as measuring sticks in the contract he already signed - he's performing up to his standard, imo.

As had already been said, TO had no leverage last year with the whole Baltimore situation- he had to go to whichever team traded for him. Now he has more leverage, and as a smart businessman, hes trying to take advantage.

But as a ####### he's going about it the wrong way, dragging teammates, the public and the press around with him.

 

[Kevin Ashcraft]

Owens is the employee, The Eagles are the employer, simple as that. If Owens wants to "run his own business' try Bowling, or Tennis, or Golf. In the NFL, he is an employee of a franchise. Thats the bottom line. If Terrell doesnt like his situation, then he can sit out, give back the bonus money and become older and slower by the day.Ownes doesnt run this show. Maybe he should go start his own league if he wants to be in control.....call it the jack### legaue and sign:Chad JohnsonKeyshawn JohnsonJavon WalkerNajeh DavenportShaun AlexanderEdgerrin JamesTorry HoltDeion SandersBubba FranksAny other player who isnt about the TEAM!I would even throw Jerry Rice and Emmitt Smith under this list. They showed in the last 2 years that they are not about the "team" but about individual stats.Another note.....is it just me, or is this whole topic racially divisive. I know no white man defending Ownes and I havent heard any blacks speak out against him.Just calling it like I see it.

 

[PlebsforPresident]

I am rooting for this clown to be traded to Atlanta. First they will declare Vick to be the next MVP because he 'finally' has a top WR. Then he will continue his suckiness with 150 yd passing games as Owens flies off the handle by week 5 wanting Matt Schaub so he can record a 100 yard receiving game.

Keep your Vick hating to yourself. It has no relevance to this thread

Vick has averaged 166 passing yds per game since 2002.

 

[larz]

Owens is the employee, The Eagles are the employer, simple as that. If Owens wants to "run his own business' try Bowling, or Tennis, or Golf. In the NFL, he is an employee of a franchise. Thats the bottom line. If Terrell doesnt like his situation, then he can sit out, give back the bonus money and become older and slower by the day.

Ownes doesnt run this show. Maybe he should go start his own league if he wants to be in control.....call it the jack### legaue and sign:

Chad Johnson

Keyshawn Johnson

Javon Walker

Najeh Davenport

Shaun Alexander

Edgerrin James

Torry Holt

Deion Sanders

Bubba Franks

Any other player who isnt about the TEAM!

I would even throw Jerry Rice and Emmitt Smith under this list. They showed in the last 2 years that they are not about the "team" but about individual stats.

Another note.....is it just me, or is this whole topic racially divisive. I know no white man defending Ownes and I havent heard any blacks speak out against him.

Just calling it like I see it.

It's only a matter of time until Jesse Jackson gets involved. I don't think its race. It's more about TO's personality that rubs people the wrong way and his new relationship with Rosenhaus.

 

[cashman88]

How do the owners have this right but not the players? And furthermore, is it not an unwritten rule that the players do have this right?

jwvdcw, surely you can see how in an NFL contract the team can have the right to terminate, while the player does not. It is simply written that way. Period. The fact that the player breaches the contract and "takes" that right does not change the fact that they have breached the terms of the contract. However, when the team terminates the contract, they are not breaching the contract, they are merely exercising a right granted to them in the contract. Both sides sign the contract, so both sides agree that the NFL may terminate early, and the player may not. Get it?I think it is morally right to abide by the terms of a written contract. If you don't like the terms of the contract (i.e. only the NFL team can terminate early), then don't sign it.

 

[wazoo11]

http://www.concretefield.com/modules.php?n...=article&sid=29

Owens traded!?!?

 

[BlueOnion]

I was responding to this statement:

So TO negotiated a contract he was very happy with 1 year ago. Doesn't it sound crazy that TO would want to come back a year later and ask for his contract to be reworked? It makes no sense.

Fair enough. The question is then, did TO outperform his contract or did he not? It is well documented that TO believes he did, but apparently the Eagles believe otherwise. Now if TO wants to sit out, I have no problem with that (I love guy personally). But to say he has 'out played his contract is false'. The reality is signed a contract last year that he now believes is undervalued. Much like TO cannot ask for a larger signing bonus (retroactively), the team cannot ask for a return on some of the signing bonus (retroactively) if TO under performed his contract.

 

[jwvdcw]

The other thing is nobody held a gun to TOs head and made him sign a 7 year contract. He could have insisted on a 1 or 2 year contract and become a free agent. But he didnt. Thats his problem.

For all the TO defenders, is there anything wrong with the Eagles giving TO the finger and letting him sit home and get fined?

No...nothing wrong with that at all. But nothing wrong with what TO is doing either- its his right to hold out if he chooses and demand more money, and many others have done it in the past and been successful with it.

 

[jwvdcw]

Who would trade for him and give him the money he wants? 

Really, what team wants to take on this mess?He needs to stopdoing interviews. For real, T.O., let Rosenhaus be the scumbag, ho loves it. Be quiet. Only bad things can happen if you keep talking.

Don't be hatin on the 2d coming now. :X And you couldn't be more wrong. Amazing and revolting as it is, no matter how many completely asinine things he says or does, bad things DON'T happen to him. He gets what he wants - every time. Worse, the NFL and many fans (and of course the kiss-#### media) are more than willing to look the other way. Anyone defending this POS has to be by definition comatose and/or make Howard Stern's standards look high.

He is a perfect microcosm of what's wrong with "professional" sports today and why I scarcely even watch games anymore, ie anything goes and anything (up to and including felonies) are given a slap on the wrist, if that....to say nothing of the obnoxious, bratty attitudes. Yeah I know, I'm a dinosaur....I miss when the players on the field were actual men, not dotted with ranting spoiled childen who couldn't care less about sportsmanship, or anything but themselves.

If not for FF, I'd probably have almost no interest in the NFL at all, despite how much I love the game. GB college and HS football.

[/rant]

Yeah, I miss the old days too. Guys like John Elway(demanding to be traded from the team that drafted him), Jerry Rice(complaining when he didn't get the ball enough), OJ Simpson(murder), etc. were just great guys.Seriously, this whole "players today just don't have any respect" shtick is silly...players were just as bad years ago as they are today.

 

[jwvdcw]

Owens is the employee, The Eagles are the employer, simple as that. If Owens wants to "run his own business' try Bowling, or Tennis, or Golf. In the NFL, he is an employee of a franchise. Thats the bottom line. If Terrell doesnt like his situation, then he can sit out, give back the bonus money and become older and slower by the day.

Ownes doesnt run this show. Maybe he should go start his own league if he wants to be in control.....call it the jack### legaue and sign:

Chad Johnson

Keyshawn Johnson

Javon Walker

Najeh Davenport

Shaun Alexander

Edgerrin James

Torry Holt

Deion Sanders

Bubba Franks

Any other player who isnt about the TEAM!

I would even throw Jerry Rice and Emmitt Smith under this list. They showed in the last 2 years that they are not about the "team" but about individual stats.

Another note.....is it just me, or is this whole topic racially divisive. I know no white man defending Ownes and I havent heard any blacks speak out against him.

Just calling it like I see it.

I'm white.

 

[Mungo Burrows]

The other thing is nobody held a gun to TOs head and made him sign a 7 year contract. He could have insisted on a 1 or 2 year contract and become a free agent. But he didnt. Thats his problem.

For all the TO defenders, is there anything wrong with the Eagles giving TO the finger and letting him sit home and get fined?

No...nothing wrong with that at all. But nothing wrong with what TO is doing either- its his right to hold out if he chooses and demand more money, and many others have done it in the past and been successful with it.

Yes, he has the right to do that, so long as he is willing to deal with the civil consequences of those actions as a breach of the contract he chose to sign: Paying the fines for missing camp, forfeiting game checks, repaying his prorated bonus, and still being unable to sign or even negotiate with any other team thus giving him little bargaining power other than whatever the team percieves the cost of his absence to be.

 

[Otis]

http://www.concretefield.com/modules.php?n...=article&sid=29

Owens traded!?!?

By the way your link doesn't go to the fake story you were intending. Text below:

wens Traded

Posted on Friday, July 22 @ 09:10:40 CDT

Topic: Articles about the Philadelphia Eagles.

Today the football world was rocked once again by the bombastic wide receiver Terrell Owens. Mere minutes after his shocking quotes were released to the greater Philadelphia cable television audience demanding a trade, Owens got his wish. His agent, little-known Drew Rosenhaus, was granted permission to talk to other teams. By the time the news had spread around the Internet by losers on message boards, Owens had a new team.

TO is the center of a three-way trade between Philadelphia, Detroit, and Baltimore. Owens will be sent to Baltimore, that will then send a fourth round pick to Detroit, and Detroit will send a second round pick and wide receiver Kevin Johnson to Philadelphia.

Owens was quick to respond to fans on his website, “I WAS JST KIDDIN WHN I SD I WSNT GNNA PLAY FOR B-MORE. I LUV ME SUM BILLICK!” Some remain skeptical about Owens' honesty regarding his "luv" of the Ravens coach, but many fans believe quite strongly that the combination of Owens, former Titans receiver Derrick Mason, tight end Todd Heap and running back/coke dealer Jamal Lewis will finally give inept quarterback Kyle Boller enough weapons to be at least mediocre this season.

Johnson, who was in New Jersey this week for private workouts could not be reached for comment. However, Eagles quarterback Donovan McNabb told reporters just how excited he was to be reunited with his old college teammate. "You're kidding me, right? Man, I quit."

by E W McKenna

 

[jwvdcw]

How do the owners have this right but not the players? And furthermore, is it not an unwritten rule that the players do have this right?

jwvdcw, surely you can see how in an NFL contract the team can have the right to terminate, while the player does not. It is simply written that way. Period. The fact that the player breaches the contract and "takes" that right does not change the fact that they have breached the terms of the contract. However, when the team terminates the contract, they are not breaching the contract, they are merely exercising a right granted to them in the contract. Both sides sign the contract, so both sides agree that the NFL may terminate early, and the player may not. Get it?I think it is morally right to abide by the terms of a written contract. If you don't like the terms of the contract (i.e. only the NFL team can terminate early), then don't sign it.

Yes, but clearly you must realize that the NFL players and owners both know that there is an 'unwritten rule' that players can and will hold out if neccessary. And surely the players and owners go into the contract signings knowing fully about this.

 

[Tackling Dummies]

No...nothing wrong with that at all. But nothing wrong with what TO is doing either- its his right to hold out if he chooses and demand more money, and many others have done it in the past and been successful with it.

It's also in the team's best interest to not bend and then to have to deal with a line of players that feels that they have outperformed their contract.

 

[BlueOnion]

I have been arguing against TO's negotiating position, but I will be the first in line to defend this guy; on and off the field. He is outspoken and a little to full-of-himself for my taste but the guy is a stand up citizen.No drugs, doesn't smoke, doesn't drink, no criminal activity...just busts his butt every single day.

 

[Mungo Burrows]

Owens is the employee, The Eagles are the employer, simple as that. If Owens wants to "run his own business' try Bowling, or Tennis, or Golf. In the NFL, he is an employee of a franchise. Thats the bottom line. If Terrell doesnt like his situation, then he can sit out, give back the bonus money and become older and slower by the day.

Ownes doesnt run this show. Maybe he should go start his own league if he wants to be in control.....call it the jack### legaue and sign:

Chad Johnson

Keyshawn Johnson

Javon Walker

Najeh Davenport

Shaun Alexander

Edgerrin James

Torry Holt

Deion Sanders

Bubba Franks

Any other player who isnt about the TEAM!

I would even throw Jerry Rice and Emmitt Smith under this list. They showed in the last 2 years that they are not about the "team" but about individual stats.

Another note.....is it just me, or is this whole topic racially divisive. I know no white man defending Ownes and I havent heard any blacks speak out against him.

Just calling it like I see it.

I'm white.

(Sorry, I couldn't resist)