What did LJ do to piss the KC front office so much ? (1 Viewer)

[The Moz]

DAMN ! The guy is the second best runner in the NFL and last year with nothing in the passing game and Line that wasn't nearly what it once was he still had 19 scores and like 1800 total yards or more.

They are acting like they don't want him on the team - not even offering any contract in a few months - nothing. Like they are happy as is and don't give a #### wether LJ plays for them or not.

The guy is making peanuts compared to other starter RB's let alone a RB that puts up numbers like that. I know he is 28 but WTF offer him somehtingat least close to what LT is getting - the guy only carries the ball over 400 times and carried the entire team !

I know LJ isn't know for being the nicest of guys but Petersen is proven to be a total POS ! He should at least trade him instead of basically Marcus Allening him !

 

[Sketch]

The front office just can't believe that a Penn State halfback is actually meeting expectations in the NFL.

<--- PSU '97

 

[Joe Bryant]

I don't think it's as much LJ as it is just the front office in general loving the "tough" attitude.

J

 

[fatkid]

Why should they give him a big contract? You don't give contracts for past achievements, you give them for expected future work. LJ wants to be paid for last year. The Chiefs are probably looking at the OL issues, and his significant wear and tear from last year, and don't expect him to repeat that level of performance again. I think that is the disconnect between the two.

For the record I think the Chiefs made a mistake re-signing Gonzalez when he is on the downside of his career.

 

[Banger]

Why should they give him a big contract?

because he's the best player on their team BY FAR.

 

[The Moz]

I don't think it's as much LJ as it is just the front office in general loving the "tough" attitude.J

Being tough is one thing but taking a guy is by far at least IMO the 2nd best RB in football and continuing to pay him like he is a 2nd string nothing ??? is just crazy. I mean at least offer to tear up his current contract give him a one year deal equivilent to a franchise tag ( average of the top 5 RBs ) then let him be a UFA next season. KC would get a guy who could carry there offense for a season pretty much on the cheap and LJ would have somehting to play for.. Why totally demoralize a guy with talk like -- " youre no LT " , not talking contract for over a month and ignoring his agent. IMO if KC doesn't at least shop him around and deal him what theyre doing to him is no different than what Al Davis did to marcus Allen ! 90% of the time I am aginst a player hold out -- how could anyone be against this one !

 

[The Moz]

Why should they give him a big contract?

because he's the best player on their team BY FAR.

 

[bcr8f]

He asked for the kind of money management would want if they were him.

 

[fatkid]

Why should they give him a big contract?

because he's the best player on their team BY FAR.

I agree he was their best player. There are questions on if he will continue to be their best player going forwrd. Here is why I don't think he is worth a gigantic contract.1. I think OL is important to how well a running back does in their system. The KC OL is going to be bad next year, which will limit his affectiveness. His YPA was 4.2 last year. If the line is worse, it may be under 4.0. That is not worth big money, even to your best player.2. He had 413 carries last year, which is a brutal amount. Every back but Eric Dickerson who had that many carries got hurt significantly in the following year. It is bad cap management to give a player with a high risk of getting hurt a big contract. I am not saying that LJ is injury prone, others backs break down after 300 carries. But 400+ carries is a huge load and should be a giant red flag for future performace.The refusal to give a big contract to a running back isn't a new concept. A lot of backs have had trouble getting a big contract recently, even coming off big years. The position has a high rate of injury, is heavily dependent on the skill of the offense in general and the offensive line in specific, and is one of the few positions where we have seen rookies or young players step in and perform. I think big contracts to Running backs should be the exception, and not the norm. In the case of LJ, give his recent high number of carries, he isn't a player I would treat as an exception.

 

[stealthrunner]

As many carries as he got and as well as he performed, he deserves a new contract. I rarely ever support a player holding out, but one player changed my view in some circumstances, such as this.

Javon Walker

And LJ deserves it more than when Javon tried to get one, and then broke his leg after coming back.

 

[NYGus]

Adam Schefter/NFL network said that the Chiefs and LJ are still $14 million apart.

Looks like it could be a long hold out.

 

[Chase Stuart]

Here is why I don't think he is worth a gigantic contract.1. I think OL is important to how well a running back does in their system. The KC OL is going to be bad next year, which will limit his affectiveness. His YPA was 4.2 last year. If the line is worse, it may be under 4.0. That is not worth big money, even to your best player.

Presumably, a RB with less talent would run at a much lower clip than 4.0 then, right? Where should KC spend the money they have right now? It's not like OL are out there growing on trees.

 

[Warpig]

He deserves a new contract. Plain and simple.

Priest did the same thing. He was playing for peanuts when they first brought him to KC from Baltimore and after he put up some sick numbers they (the Chiefs) finally gave him a decent contract ($10M signing bonus I believe?).

Now you have a re-enactment of that situation with LJ. He's been playing under his original rookie contract (which was on the low end to begin with) and now he'd like to get paid for past production.

The Chiefs brass are notorious for low-balling players. It makes money for the owners, but they'll never be a legitimate contender until they start opening up the wallet. Why would any good FA's wanna play for KC when they know they won't get market value?

I wouldn't be surprised if Bowe misses a significant portion of the season as well.

Chiefs front office blows.

 

[LILB811]

Why should they give him a big contract? You don't give contracts for past achievements

This is not true. In every sport, it's always a big deal when a player is in a "contract year". The better a player does in the current season, the more money they command on the open market. The guy is one of the best in the league, is still playing on his rookie contract, and deserves to get paid. It doesn't make sense to me why KC would run him into the ground and then not want to pay him claiming that he's due for a breakdown. That team is bad enough as it is, they should invest it in their best player, and protect their investment.

 

[bcr8f]

As many carries as he got and as well as he performed, he deserves a new contract. I rarely ever support a player holding out, but one player changed my view in some circumstances, such as this.Javon Walker And LJ deserves it more than when Javon tried to get one, and then broke his leg after coming back.

Javon had one good year when he asked for a raise. The Packers wanted him to repeat his performance but he got hurt and demanded oput.LJ has had 2 very good years. He has repeated his excellent play. Now Romo wants a large raise and the team also wants him to prove he wasn't a one year wonder. That isn't unfair.

 

[Banger]

Why should they give him a big contract?

because he's the best player on their team BY FAR.

I agree he was their best player. There are questions on if he will continue to be their best player going forwrd. Here is why I don't think he is worth a gigantic contract.1. I think OL is important to how well a running back does in their system. The KC OL is going to be bad next year, which will limit his affectiveness. His YPA was 4.2 last year. If the line is worse, it may be under 4.0. That is not worth big money, even to your best player.

Don't really follow the logic. So an average RB running behind a great line should get a big raise but a great back behind a bad line shouldn't?LJ was given that amount of work by his coaching staff because he is/was the only impact player. Without him they don't have a chance of winning 8 games, with him they do.

 

[sholditch]

they need to pay him or trade him. If was LJ I wouldn't sacrifice my body and any hopes at future success for a team obviously intent on running me into the ground and dumping me.

 

[faulkfan]

Why should they give him a big contract?

because he's the best player on their team BY FAR.

I agree he was their best player. There are questions on if he will continue to be their best player going forwrd. Here is why I don't think he is worth a gigantic contract.

1. I think OL is important to how well a running back does in their system. 1...The KC OL is going to be bad next year, which will limit his affectiveness. His YPA was 4.2 last year. If the line is worse, it may be under 4.0. That is not worth big money, even to your best player.

2. 2...He had 413 carries last year, which is a brutal amount. Every back but Eric Dickerson who had that many carries got hurt significantly in the following year. It is bad cap management to give a player with a high risk of getting hurt a big contract. I am not saying that LJ is injury prone, others backs break down after 300 carries. But 400+ carries is a huge load and should be a giant red flag for future performace.

3...The refusal to give a big contract to a running back isn't a new concept. A lot of backs have had trouble getting a big contract recently, even coming off big years. The position has a high rate of injury, is heavily dependent on the skill of the offense in general and the offensive line in specific, and is one of the few positions where we have seen rookies or young players step in and perform. I think big contracts to Running backs should be the exception, and not the norm. In the case of LJ, give his recent high number of carries, he isn't a player I would treat as an exception.

He will still be the best player on the team, the rest of the team will just suck, but is that his fault?1. So because they didn't address their OL problems and another guy retires then LJ should be punished?

2. Okay, I need to understand this. He goes out and carries the rock 413 times and takes a beating for you and your response is to say "we worked you too hard last year so we can't pay you." If any other boss used that reasoning I guarantee that productivity throughout the company would PLUMMET!

3. I agree that this is nothing new and I am personally not in favor of KC dumping a ton of money into a longterm contract LJ. However, the reasoning that has been given is suspect IMHO. If KC doesn't think they can compete then they are fools and deserve every headache LJ gives them if they don't trade him and get some value for a player still in his prime. To run him into the ground for the next few years while they are rebuilding is just bad business. He wants too much money IMO, but they are also being prideful and ignorant in managing their team and hopefully it will be the straw that gets Peterson fired.

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

Why should they give him a big contract? You don't give contracts for past achievements

This is not true. In every sport, it's always a big deal when a player is in a "contract year". The better a player does in the current season, the more money they command on the open market. The guy is one of the best in the league, is still playing on his rookie contract, and deserves to get paid. It doesn't make sense to me why KC would run him into the ground and then not want to pay him claiming that he's due for a breakdown. That team is bad enough as it is, they should invest it in their best player, and protect their investment.

Disagree. In the NFL, every year is a contract year. Earn your payckeck or take a paycut or get waived. There's no job security, so players want everything they can get up front. They'll probably never see the back half of a contract. The Chiefs don't want to pay huge money to an running back with a lot of miles on him, even if they're the ones who put on the miles. They want to start over and I think they'd be just as happy with a mediocre rookie running back. Why would LJ want to stay in KC anyway? It's like Dillon and the Bengals or Sanders and the Lions. Don't sign fat contracts with a crappy team and then complain that the team isn't a contender.The best thing for LJ would be to rest his body for 10 weeks, use the rest of the season as training camp, work out hard in the offseason and get a fresh start somewhere else.

 

[Ozymandias]

Why should they give him a big contract? You don't give contracts for past achievements

This is not true. In every sport, it's always a big deal when a player is in a "contract year". The better a player does in the current season, the more money they command on the open market. The guy is one of the best in the league, is still playing on his rookie contract, and deserves to get paid. It doesn't make sense to me why KC would run him into the ground and then not want to pay him claiming that he's due for a breakdown. That team is bad enough as it is, they should invest it in their best player, and protect their investment.

Disagree. In the NFL, every year is a contract year. Earn your payckeck or take a paycut or get waived. There's no job security, so players want everything they can get up front. They'll probably never see the back half of a contract. The Chiefs don't want to pay huge money to an running back with a lot of miles on him, even if they're the ones who put on the miles. They want to start over and I think they'd be just as happy with a mediocre rookie running back. Why would LJ want to stay in KC anyway? It's like Dillon and the Bengals or Sanders and the Lions. Don't sign fat contracts with a crappy team and then complain that the team isn't a contender.

The best thing for LJ would be to rest his body for 10 weeks, use the rest of the season as training camp, work out hard in the offseason and get a fresh start somewhere else.

If I had to bet, I see a 50-50 chance of this happening.He's 27 years old, he has one more big payday coming. He rests 10 games, and doesn't put on all that mileage this year.

 

[Brutis]

The Chiefs are a cheap organization that appears has no interest in winning a SB, they would rather make a buck. I'm glad the team I root for actually tries to sign players to win.

 

[LILB811]

Why should they give him a big contract? You don't give contracts for past achievements

This is not true. In every sport, it's always a big deal when a player is in a "contract year". The better a player does in the current season, the more money they command on the open market. The guy is one of the best in the league, is still playing on his rookie contract, and deserves to get paid. It doesn't make sense to me why KC would run him into the ground and then not want to pay him claiming that he's due for a breakdown. That team is bad enough as it is, they should invest it in their best player, and protect their investment.

Disagree. In the NFL, every year is a contract year. Earn your payckeck or take a paycut or get waived. There's no job security, so players want everything they can get up front. They'll probably never see the back half of a contract. The Chiefs don't want to pay huge money to an running back with a lot of miles on him, even if they're the ones who put on the miles. They want to start over and I think they'd be just as happy with a mediocre rookie running back. Why would LJ want to stay in KC anyway? It's like Dillon and the Bengals or Sanders and the Lions. Don't sign fat contracts with a crappy team and then complain that the team isn't a contender.The best thing for LJ would be to rest his body for 10 weeks, use the rest of the season as training camp, work out hard in the offseason and get a fresh start somewhere else.

Basically what I was trying to point out is that the Chiefs have a 27 year old stud Running Back on their roster who has really only played for a year and a half, despite all the touches he's gotten. LJ isn't done by any means, but the Chiefs unwillingness to pay him is foolish. It definitely reminds me of Dillon's situation with the Bengals. If the team isn't committed to winning and him, LJ is definitely gonna want out after this year. Usually not too many RB's that sign big contracts ever get cut, even if they don't end up seeing a year or two at the end of their contract. I don't see the point of starting over when LJ can help the team for many years to come.

 

[Bizkiteer]

I don't think it's as much LJ as it is just the front office in general loving the "tough" attitude.J

That might be part of it, but LJ hasn't done any real favors since being there. Remember the diaper comment a few yrs ago? I'm sure he is a bit of a special one to deal with if not getting his way or thinking he's above much of everthing else. Of course, this is all opinion to a degree, but from the outside looking in...he hasn't helped himself to be endeared by the franchise over the years. The Chiefs probably think he's good, but as most organizations...they think he's partly a product of their system.

 

[vandyt]

Lots of awful logic in this thread.

LJ doesn't "deserve" anything. We don't live in a socialist society. LJ will get what the market dictates hes worth. The Chiefs, with good reason, don't think hes anywhere near worth the $28 mil guaranteed hes worth. If another team thought he was worth that, and was willing to pay him, they'd make a move for him, but that also hasn't happened.

LJ may think he "deserves" his payday after last years brutal season, but by taking that kind of toll at his age, he essentially ruined his chances for the kind of payday he wants. NFL teams don't succeed by paying HUGE money to players for their past performance. Someone above referenced a free agent getting paid big bucks after a "contract" year....yes, thats what happens, but its because the team paying him expects that performance to continue into the future. LJ, after taking well over 800 touches the past two years, cannot reasonably be expected to continue his success; whether the KC OL improves or not.

KC is offering LJ around $14 mil guaranteed...LJ has every right to holdout of camp and pay his fines if he wants more than that; but KC has every right to not pay him what he wants or feels he "deserves". Welcome to capitalism, boys....I hope you guys out there saying he "deserves" a raise never say that to an NFL Front Office worker. You'll be laughed out of the room.

 

[RudeDog]

Lots of awful logic in this thread.

LJ doesn't "deserve" anything. We don't live in a socialist society. LJ will get what the market dictates hes worth. The Chiefs, with good reason, don't think hes anywhere near worth the $28 mil guaranteed hes worth. If another team thought he was worth that, and was willing to pay him, they'd make a move for him, but that also hasn't happened.

LJ may think he "deserves" his payday after last years brutal season, but by taking that kind of toll at his age, he essentially ruined his chances for the kind of payday he wants. NFL teams don't succeed by paying HUGE money to players for their past performance. Someone above referenced a free agent getting paid big bucks after a "contract" year....yes, thats what happens, but its because the team paying him expects that performance to continue into the future. LJ, after taking well over 800 touches the past two years, cannot reasonably be expected to continue his success; whether the KC OL improves or not.

KC is offering LJ around $14 mil guaranteed...LJ has every right to holdout of camp and pay his fines if he wants more than that; but KC has every right to not pay him what he wants or feels he "deserves". Welcome to capitalism, boys....I hope you guys out there saying he "deserves" a raise never say that to an NFL Front Office worker. You'll be laughed out of the room.

Some don't realize this is, first and foremost, a business.

 

[fatness]

LJ doesn't "deserve" anything. We don't live in a socialist society. LJ will get what the market dictates hes worth. The Chiefs, with good reason, don't think hes anywhere near worth the $28 mil guaranteed hes worth. If another team thought he was worth that, and was willing to pay him, they'd make a move for him, but that also hasn't happened.

Your explanation is flawed. There is no market except the Chiefs. No other team can offer him a contract. If other teams wanted to pay him $28 million or even more (and some would), they would have to trade first with the Chiefs to acquire the rights to Johnson. The Chiefs control what they'd be willing to take in exchange for Johnson. The player has no option to go elsewhere. His only option if dissatisfied with his current pay is to hold out.I don't blame him. He would be worth a hell of a lot on the open market. Being available on the open market would be an example of capitalism.

 

[North]

Why should they give him a big contract?

because he's the best player on their team BY FAR.

I agree he was their best player. There are questions on if he will continue to be their best player going forwrd. Here is why I don't think he is worth a gigantic contract.1. I think OL is important to how well a running back does in their system. The KC OL is going to be bad next year, which will limit his affectiveness. His YPA was 4.2 last year. If the line is worse, it may be under 4.0. That is not worth big money, even to your best player.2. He had 413 carries last year, which is a brutal amount. Every back but Eric Dickerson who had that many carries got hurt significantly in the following year. It is bad cap management to give a player with a high risk of getting hurt a big contract. I am not saying that LJ is injury prone, others backs break down after 300 carries. But 400+ carries is a huge load and should be a giant red flag for future performace.The refusal to give a big contract to a running back isn't a new concept. A lot of backs have had trouble getting a big contract recently, even coming off big years. The position has a high rate of injury, is heavily dependent on the skill of the offense in general and the offensive line in specific, and is one of the few positions where we have seen rookies or young players step in and perform. I think big contracts to Running backs should be the exception, and not the norm. In the case of LJ, give his recent high number of carries, he isn't a player I would treat as an exception.

I'm sick of this arguement that once a RB hits 400+ carries he has potential for injury. NO ONE thinks LT is overpaid and the last I checked people weren't predicting that he will fall apart soon. Here is his stats for the past 4 years:2003- 313 carries 100 receptions = 413 touches2004- 339 carries 53 receptions = 392 touches2005- 339 carries 51 receptions = 390 touches2006- 348 carries 56 receptions = 404 touchesI know 2004 & 2005 were under 400 but just barely. I also know they have different running styles which puts a little more punishment on LJ but come on. I think this 400 mark is an excuse for KC to not pay up. LT is proof that it can be done over the life of a contract. LJ's #'s are less than LT's yet everyone is convinced LJ will get hurt. If you look at LJ's career he has significantly less touches than LT yet continues to get greef for his workload:2003- 20 carries 1 reception = 21 touches2004- 120 carries 22 receptions = 142 touches2005- 336 carries 33 receptions = 369 touches2006- 416 carries 41 receptions = 457 touchesOver the past 4 years LT has compiled 1599 touches compared to LJ's 989, thats 610 LESS touches but he is the one who will fall apart? Has he had any injuries that would indicate he is an injury risk? Is he 30 years old? Has he not been the cornerstone of this offense for the past 2 years? The thing I like about LJ is that he has a chip on his shoulder, and he plays that way. IF he plays this year I expect big things from him even if he doesn't have a stellar OL to block for him. That being said I hope that he goes somewhere else where he is appreciated. Without LJ this year KC has ZERO chance at doing anything.

 

[Power Monster]

I know some hard core fans that have family that would sit in Lamar Hunt's private box and they cannot stand LJ....

 

[gianmarco]

Why should they give him a big contract? You don't give contracts for past achievements, you give them for expected future work. LJ wants to be paid for last year. The Chiefs are probably looking at the OL issues, and his significant wear and tear from last year, and don't expect him to repeat that level of performance again. I think that is the disconnect between the two.



For the record I think the Chiefs made a mistake re-signing Gonzalez when he is on the downside of his career.

The guy caught 73 balls for 900 yds last year and 5 TDs. In fantasy terms, it was good enough for 3rd among TEs. In football terms, only Gates had more yds than him at 924 (a whopping 24 more yds) and Tony played 1 less game. Only 6 TE's scored more than him. His avg receiving yds over his career (excluding his 1st where he didn't play much) is 927 and averages 6.5 TDs/season. So, where is he on the downside? Same downside that Harrison should have been on for the last 4 yrs?

 

[North]

I know some hard core fans that have family that would sit in Lamar Hunt's private box and they cannot stand LJ....

Someones opinion of a player doesn't really mean jack to me. My sister used to work in the concession stand at memorial stadium and she had a friend who....... Blah Blah BlahThere's lots of players I don't like and some who I have had run ins with, it doesn't make them any less of a player just because I think they're jerks.

 

[Power Monster]

I know some hard core fans that have family that would sit in Lamar Hunt's private box and they cannot stand LJ....

Someones opinion of a player doesn't really mean jack to me. My sister used to work in the concession stand at memorial stadium and she had a friend who....... Blah Blah BlahThere's lots of players I don't like and some who I have had run ins with, it doesn't make them any less of a player just because I think they're jerks.

My point Mr. North is he seems to have pissed off the fan base. That is a loyal fan base. You think Brett Favre would be around this long if the Packer fans felt the same way about him that the KC fans think of LJ?

 

[North]

I know some hard core fans that have family that would sit in Lamar Hunt's private box and they cannot stand LJ....

Someones opinion of a player doesn't really mean jack to me. My sister used to work in the concession stand at memorial stadium and she had a friend who....... Blah Blah BlahThere's lots of players I don't like and some who I have had run ins with, it doesn't make them any less of a player just because I think they're jerks.

My point Mr. North is he seems to have pissed off the fan base. That is a loyal fan base. You think Brett Favre would be around this long if the Packer fans felt the same way about him that the KC fans think of LJ?

So you're saying that b/c you know some family members of some fans that were friends of L. Hunt who didn't like LJ, that everyone who's a fan of KC doesn't like him? I would love to see a poll of "hardcore" KC fans to find out how many think he's a jerk. A couple opinions of family friends do NOT translate into how a WHOLE fanbase views 1 player. I'm sure there are just as many KC fans who love him.

 

[Power Monster]

It is either that or the KC fans just do not appreciate solid numbers nor does the front office. You can call it what you want but when a player pisses off the fan base the ownership will take action. A lot of their fans want him out of there....

 

[Phurfur]

As many carries as he got and as well as he performed, he deserves a new contract. I rarely ever support a player holding out, but one player changed my view in some circumstances, such as this.Javon Walker And LJ deserves it more than when Javon tried to get one, and then broke his leg after coming back.

Doesn't LJ have two years left on his contract like Walker did. Players always want long term cntracts but don't want to live up to them.

 

[North]

It is either that or the KC fans just do not appreciate solid numbers nor does the front office. You can call it what you want but when a player pisses off the fan base the ownership will take action. A lot of their fans want him out of there....

As long as there are sports there will be players who piss off the fans. I can name an endless amount of professional athletes who were hated by fans. The difference is this guy comes to work ready, plays hard and is at the top of his game. He has another 4 to 5 years of being one of the best at his position, at some point fans need to put aside there opinions and appreciate what he is doing on the field. One sure fire cure, if KC went deep into the playoffs last year and had a contender this year all would be rosey in KC.

 

[Warpig]

I know some hard core fans that have family that would sit in Lamar Hunt's private box and they cannot stand LJ....

Someones opinion of a player doesn't really mean jack to me. My sister used to work in the concession stand at memorial stadium and she had a friend who....... Blah Blah BlahThere's lots of players I don't like and some who I have had run ins with, it doesn't make them any less of a player just because I think they're jerks.

My point Mr. North is he seems to have pissed off the fan base. That is a loyal fan base. You think Brett Favre would be around this long if the Packer fans felt the same way about him that the KC fans think of LJ?

That's also the same fan base that are seriously happy that Priest is back and honestly think he will return to his great form.People from Kansas/Missouri are inbreds and aren't too bright.

 

[fatkid]

Presumably, a RB with less talent would run at a much lower clip than 4.0 then, right? Where should KC spend the money they have right now? It's not like OL are out there growing on trees.

They need talent across the board. Money spent on LJ is money they can't spend elsewhere. I don't have alternatives now, as it is late in Free Agency, but that money doesn't need to be spent or lost. It can be rolled over into future caps.

Don't really follow the logic. So an average RB running behind a great line should get a big raise but a great back behind a bad line shouldn't?LJ was given that amount of work by his coaching staff because he is/was the only impact player. Without him they don't have a chance of winning 8 games, with him they do.

I never said an average Running back should get a big raise. I think Running backs are overpaid in general, due to the high risks the position has. LJ in my mind has higher risks than most due to his workload.

they need to pay him or trade him. If was LJ I wouldn't sacrifice my body and any hopes at future success for a team obviously intent on running me into the ground and dumping me.

If I was LJ, I wouldn't either. I was presenting my view on why I don't think the Chiefs are meeting his contract demands. By the way, offering 14 Million gaurenteed isn't chump change. The issue here not a Lance Briggs situation. The Cheifs made an offer they felt was reasonable. I will discuss the trade option below.

He will still be the best player on the team, the rest of the team will just suck, but is that his fault?1. So because they didn't address their OL problems and another guy retires then LJ should be punished? 2. Okay, I need to understand this. He goes out and carries the rock 413 times and takes a beating for you and your response is to say "we worked you too hard last year so we can't pay you." If any other boss used that reasoning I guarantee that productivity throughout the company would PLUMMET! 3. I agree that this is nothing new and I am personally not in favor of KC dumping a ton of money into a longterm contract LJ. However, the reasoning that has been given is suspect IMHO. If KC doesn't think they can compete then they are fools and deserve every headache LJ gives them if they don't trade him and get some value for a player still in his prime. To run him into the ground for the next few years while they are rebuilding is just bad business. He wants too much money IMO, but they are also being prideful and ignorant in managing their team and hopefully it will be the straw that gets Peterson fired.

1. This isn't about punishing him. They have to estimate what his future value is, and not his past value. 2. This doesn't apply to the NFL. The more they spend on LJ, the less they can spend on the other guys in that locker room. In a very real sense the players on a team are competing with one another for the same money. Don't assume that everyone will be happy for him. I agree that it fundamentally sucks the way this is working out for him.3. We completely agree on this point. I think the problem with a trade is any team getting him would need to meet his contract demands. The team getting him would need to give up draft picks and sign him, and that is a double whammy.Running him into the ground last year was terrible buisness. If the run him into the ground again this year that is worse buisness, and if they do both and then give him a huge contract after killing him, that is the worst buisness of all. The best thing they can do is fire Herm Edwards and get someone in there who gives him a rest. For all of those who think he deserves the 28 Milion he is asking for, let me ask you this. What signs do you see that indicate that he will be as effective over the next 4 years as he was the previous 2 years? He is asking them to pay him like he will be a top 2 back in the NFL for the next 4 years. Everything I see indicates this will not happen. He had an extreme number of carries last year. His offensive line is getting worse. The whole team is aging. He is in a conference where he plays the Raiders D, Chargers D, and Denver D six times a year. He is on the down side of his career age wise.

 

[freeannyong]

As many carries as he got and as well as he performed, he deserves a new contract. I rarely ever support a player holding out, but one player changed my view in some circumstances, such as this.

Javon Walker

And LJ deserves it more than when Javon tried to get one, and then broke his leg after coming back.

Doesn't LJ have two years left on his contract like Walker did. Players always want long term cntracts but don't want to live up to them.

I think you are confusing football with baseball.

 

[fatkid]

Why should they give him a big contract?

because he's the best player on their team BY FAR.

I agree he was their best player. There are questions on if he will continue to be their best player going forwrd. Here is why I don't think he is worth a gigantic contract.1. I think OL is important to how well a running back does in their system. The KC OL is going to be bad next year, which will limit his affectiveness. His YPA was 4.2 last year. If the line is worse, it may be under 4.0. That is not worth big money, even to your best player.2. He had 413 carries last year, which is a brutal amount. Every back but Eric Dickerson who had that many carries got hurt significantly in the following year. It is bad cap management to give a player with a high risk of getting hurt a big contract. I am not saying that LJ is injury prone, others backs break down after 300 carries. But 400+ carries is a huge load and should be a giant red flag for future performace.The refusal to give a big contract to a running back isn't a new concept. A lot of backs have had trouble getting a big contract recently, even coming off big years. The position has a high rate of injury, is heavily dependent on the skill of the offense in general and the offensive line in specific, and is one of the few positions where we have seen rookies or young players step in and perform. I think big contracts to Running backs should be the exception, and not the norm. In the case of LJ, give his recent high number of carries, he isn't a player I would treat as an exception.

I'm sick of this arguement that once a RB hits 400+ carries he has potential for injury. NO ONE thinks LT is overpaid and the last I checked people weren't predicting that he will fall apart soon. Here is his stats for the past 4 years:2003- 313 carries 100 receptions = 413 touches2004- 339 carries 53 receptions = 392 touches2005- 339 carries 51 receptions = 390 touches2006- 348 carries 56 receptions = 404 touchesI know 2004 & 2005 were under 400 but just barely. I also know they have different running styles which puts a little more punishment on LJ but come on. I think this 400 mark is an excuse for KC to not pay up. LT is proof that it can be done over the life of a contract. LJ's #'s are less than LT's yet everyone is convinced LJ will get hurt. If you look at LJ's career he has significantly less touches than LT yet continues to get greef for his workload:2003- 20 carries 1 reception = 21 touches2004- 120 carries 22 receptions = 142 touches2005- 336 carries 33 receptions = 369 touches2006- 416 carries 41 receptions = 457 touchesOver the past 4 years LT has compiled 1599 touches compared to LJ's 989, thats 610 LESS touches but he is the one who will fall apart? Has he had any injuries that would indicate he is an injury risk? Is he 30 years old? Has he not been the cornerstone of this offense for the past 2 years? The thing I like about LJ is that he has a chip on his shoulder, and he plays that way. IF he plays this year I expect big things from him even if he doesn't have a stellar OL to block for him. That being said I hope that he goes somewhere else where he is appreciated. Without LJ this year KC has ZERO chance at doing anything.

Reasearch by Doug Drinen and Football Outsiders say that it is carries and not touches that lead to injuries. Further, it is excessive carries. Much like a pitcher in Basebal, going from 90 to 120 pitches causes a lot more damage than going from 1 to 90.

 

[faulkfan]

Presumably, a RB with less talent would run at a much lower clip than 4.0 then, right? Where should KC spend the money they have right now? It's not like OL are out there growing on trees.

They need talent across the board. Money spent on LJ is money they can't spend elsewhere. I don't have alternatives now, as it is late in Free Agency, but that money doesn't need to be spent or lost. It can be rolled over into future caps.

Don't really follow the logic. So an average RB running behind a great line should get a big raise but a great back behind a bad line shouldn't?LJ was given that amount of work by his coaching staff because he is/was the only impact player. Without him they don't have a chance of winning 8 games, with him they do.

I never said an average Running back should get a big raise. I think Running backs are overpaid in general, due to the high risks the position has. LJ in my mind has higher risks than most due to his workload.

they need to pay him or trade him. If was LJ I wouldn't sacrifice my body and any hopes at future success for a team obviously intent on running me into the ground and dumping me.

If I was LJ, I wouldn't either. I was presenting my view on why I don't think the Chiefs are meeting his contract demands. By the way, offering 14 Million gaurenteed isn't chump change. The issue here not a Lance Briggs situation. The Cheifs made an offer they felt was reasonable. I will discuss the trade option below.

He will still be the best player on the team, the rest of the team will just suck, but is that his fault?1. So because they didn't address their OL problems and another guy retires then LJ should be punished? 2. Okay, I need to understand this. He goes out and carries the rock 413 times and takes a beating for you and your response is to say "we worked you too hard last year so we can't pay you." If any other boss used that reasoning I guarantee that productivity throughout the company would PLUMMET! 3. I agree that this is nothing new and I am personally not in favor of KC dumping a ton of money into a longterm contract LJ. However, the reasoning that has been given is suspect IMHO. If KC doesn't think they can compete then they are fools and deserve every headache LJ gives them if they don't trade him and get some value for a player still in his prime. To run him into the ground for the next few years while they are rebuilding is just bad business. He wants too much money IMO, but they are also being prideful and ignorant in managing their team and hopefully it will be the straw that gets Peterson fired.

1. This isn't about punishing him. They have to estimate what his future value is, and not his past value. 2. This doesn't apply to the NFL. The more they spend on LJ, the less they can spend on the other guys in that locker room. In a very real sense the players on a team are competing with one another for the same money. Don't assume that everyone will be happy for him. I agree that it fundamentally sucks the way this is working out for him.3. We completely agree on this point. I think the problem with a trade is any team getting him would need to meet his contract demands. The team getting him would need to give up draft picks and sign him, and that is a double whammy.Running him into the ground last year was terrible buisness. If the run him into the ground again this year that is worse buisness, and if they do both and then give him a huge contract after killing him, that is the worst buisness of all. The best thing they can do is fire Herm Edwards and get someone in there who gives him a rest. For all of those who think he deserves the 28 Milion he is asking for, let me ask you this. What signs do you see that indicate that he will be as effective over the next 4 years as he was the previous 2 years? He is asking them to pay him like he will be a top 2 back in the NFL for the next 4 years. Everything I see indicates this will not happen. He had an extreme number of carries last year. His offensive line is getting worse. The whole team is aging. He is in a conference where he plays the Raiders D, Chargers D, and Denver D six times a year. He is on the down side of his career age wise.

Would you agree with me that probably the best thing KC can do is trade him? Paying him seems like a poor use of funds.Keeping him and having him pissed, holding out, #####ing and then running him into the ground further and losing is bad business as well.Trading him gives you picks, a decent player to fill in for him, headache relief, and money to spend on the rebuilding effort.I just think that in this case when your team has NO CHANCE (sorry KC fans) of sniffing the playoffs, they might as well embrace the rebuilding thing and your one nugget of value is a great place to start. The Trent Green debacle is an example of Peterson's ineptitude IMHO. Being a hard nose didn't benefit them and it could mean more difficult negotiations with teams in the future. I hate players holding out and this is no exception. From an organizational standpoint, however, dealing him makes the most sense. Then let some other franchise make the mistake of overpaying him or dealing with his grousing for the season.

 

[North]

Why should they give him a big contract?

because he's the best player on their team BY FAR.

I agree he was their best player. There are questions on if he will continue to be their best player going forwrd. Here is why I don't think he is worth a gigantic contract.1. I think OL is important to how well a running back does in their system. The KC OL is going to be bad next year, which will limit his affectiveness. His YPA was 4.2 last year. If the line is worse, it may be under 4.0. That is not worth big money, even to your best player.2. He had 413 carries last year, which is a brutal amount. Every back but Eric Dickerson who had that many carries got hurt significantly in the following year. It is bad cap management to give a player with a high risk of getting hurt a big contract. I am not saying that LJ is injury prone, others backs break down after 300 carries. But 400+ carries is a huge load and should be a giant red flag for future performace.The refusal to give a big contract to a running back isn't a new concept. A lot of backs have had trouble getting a big contract recently, even coming off big years. The position has a high rate of injury, is heavily dependent on the skill of the offense in general and the offensive line in specific, and is one of the few positions where we have seen rookies or young players step in and perform. I think big contracts to Running backs should be the exception, and not the norm. In the case of LJ, give his recent high number of carries, he isn't a player I would treat as an exception.

I'm sick of this arguement that once a RB hits 400+ carries he has potential for injury. NO ONE thinks LT is overpaid and the last I checked people weren't predicting that he will fall apart soon. Here is his stats for the past 4 years:2003- 313 carries 100 receptions = 413 touches2004- 339 carries 53 receptions = 392 touches2005- 339 carries 51 receptions = 390 touches2006- 348 carries 56 receptions = 404 touchesI know 2004 & 2005 were under 400 but just barely. I also know they have different running styles which puts a little more punishment on LJ but come on. I think this 400 mark is an excuse for KC to not pay up. LT is proof that it can be done over the life of a contract. LJ's #'s are less than LT's yet everyone is convinced LJ will get hurt. If you look at LJ's career he has significantly less touches than LT yet continues to get greef for his workload:2003- 20 carries 1 reception = 21 touches2004- 120 carries 22 receptions = 142 touches2005- 336 carries 33 receptions = 369 touches2006- 416 carries 41 receptions = 457 touchesOver the past 4 years LT has compiled 1599 touches compared to LJ's 989, thats 610 LESS touches but he is the one who will fall apart? Has he had any injuries that would indicate he is an injury risk? Is he 30 years old? Has he not been the cornerstone of this offense for the past 2 years? The thing I like about LJ is that he has a chip on his shoulder, and he plays that way. IF he plays this year I expect big things from him even if he doesn't have a stellar OL to block for him. That being said I hope that he goes somewhere else where he is appreciated. Without LJ this year KC has ZERO chance at doing anything.

Reasearch by Doug Drinen and Football Outsiders say that it is carries and not touches that lead to injuries. Further, it is excessive carries. Much like a pitcher in Basebal, going from 90 to 120 pitches causes a lot more damage than going from 1 to 90.

I can see that but touches and carries = same thing, both result in a player either being tackled, running OB or taking it to the house. A high % of carries just means a higher likely hood of injury b/c the player is touching the ball more, but in my book touches and carries are the same thing.

 

[bcr8f]

LJ doesn't "deserve" anything. We don't live in a socialist society. LJ will get what the market dictates hes worth. The Chiefs, with good reason, don't think hes anywhere near worth the $28 mil guaranteed hes worth. If another team thought he was worth that, and was willing to pay him, they'd make a move for him, but that also hasn't happened.

I didn't know Rush Limbaugh came in here.

 

[the UFFRM]

Here's what L.J. did. He got drafted by CP after trading down so he could look smarter and pay less in order to aquire leverage in negotiations with Priest Holmes. He was effed from the get go. Peterson is IMO the most underhanded and conniving GM in the land. He's the owner's best friend and the fan's worst nightmare. IMO these are players he should have kept and found a way to make it work cap-wise: Rich Gannon, Joe Horn, Donnie Edwards, and John Tait. I don't understand how you do not see that any one of those players will not be easily replaced considering talent, production, leadership, experience, and chemistry. How do you not see this if it's your job? Now the the HUGE draft blunders: Trezelle Jenkins, Ryan Sims, Sylvester Morris, Junior Siavii, Eddie Freeman.

Peterson has sold out the stadium ptretty much since he arrived and the organization has benefitted from a period of financial prosperity here-to-fore unknown under his watch. After all that Lamar Hunt has done for the NFL and KC he deserved some payback...more than a little. He also deserved a winner. CP put together some good teams but never one that was not obviously flawed. First it was the great defense with the aging retread backfiled. Then the even better defense with Krieg, Bono, Gannon, Grbac. Then the transition with the guy with the yellow glasses. Then the car accident (no blame there). Then we had the "Gotta go to work" team with the high octane offense, the special teams, and even more offense...wait, did I miss something there? Yes, I attended the effing Colts game at Arrowhead where there were no punts. Now that team is history and good ridddance. Now we are back to the defense based team but thanks to our posturing GM we soon be without our biggest asset, LJ.

All in all, IMO, the Chiefs will not make the post peason again while CP retains any position in the organization. The only person who could have told him what to do is now dead, period. Clark Hunt is still the young fella watching the veteran GM that his dad trusted so very much with his prized possession. Clark Hunt will need to reshape the Chiefs from the top down for anything to change.

I wish Larry Johnson all the best. If it was me I would offer about 17-19 mil guaranteed to lock him up because we would need a strong RB to sacrifice to the league for the next two years while we grow a new O-line, defense, and signal caller. Then LJ will want a new deal and CP will draft another first round RB in order to aquire leverage in negotiations with LJ and the circle of life will be complete as we are on our way by that time back to being the nasty Chiefs defense with the running game and the shaky QB.

Larry by getting drafted by CP was snake-bit. Out of gratitude for what the he has done and the type of player he is I wish the Chiefs would trade him somewhere where he is wanted and where he has even a chance of winning...namely, the NFC.

 

[Mr. Bill O'Reilly]

He wanted to be paid his market value?

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

I doubt the KC front office is pissed at LJ, but I don't know for sure.

They are acting like they don't want him on the team - not even offering any contract in a few months - nothing.

After the Chiefs' offer a few months ago, when did LJ make a counter-offer? I don't know the answer, but the Chiefs aren't going to bid against themselves. If they make an offer and LJ just said "no" without countering, the ball is still really in LJ's court.But I don't know exactly how it's played out, so maybe the Chiefs really are stalling. It's hard to get good information on these kinds of issues from the media.

 

[Jeff Haseley]

All this discussion is good, but the real questions are...

A. How long will he hold out?

B. Will the front office ever give in?

C. Is Priest healthy enough to come in and take over if needed?

D. If Priest can't go - is this (gulp) Michael Bennett's turn?

E. If not Michael Bennett - then who?

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

C. Is Priest healthy enough to come in and take over if needed?D. If Priest can't go - is this (gulp) Michael Bennett's turn?

I think even if Priest can go, he'd be used as the third-down back while Bennett would start. If not Bennett, then Kolby Smith.

 

[North]

C. Is Priest healthy enough to come in and take over if needed?D. If Priest can't go - is this (gulp) Michael Bennett's turn?

I think even if Priest can go, he'd be used as the third-down back while Bennett would start. If not Bennett, then Kolby Smith.

If they are relying on this combo to fill LJ's shoes then just stick a pencil in my eye right now. This team will be atrocious!It won't be until a week 1 loss to the Texans that they realize they need LJ to salvage a respectable season (5 wins).

 

[kylechoffman]

sorry if a repeat post but saw this:

http://www.nfl.com/nflnetwork/story/10276236

VETERANS DAY

While some rookies continue to hit pay dirt and jackpots, not all veterans do.

The Kansas City Chiefs still have not submitted a new written contract proposal to holdout running back Larry Johnson since June 1.

Johnson is frustrated and disappointed, and relegated to missing the preseason, if not much of the regular season.

But the Chiefs feel as if their backfield is in good standing, even without Johnson. Kansas City is counting on former Pro Bowl running back Priest Holmes as a third-down back. They believe former first-round pick Michael Bennett is a capable every-down back. And the Chiefs are excited about the emergence of fifth-round pick Kolby Smith, who has been one of the offseason surprises.

The Chiefs still are surprised that a back who has looked as good as Smith has was available in the fifth round, a season after he replaced and nearly matched the performance of Louisville running back Michael Bush.

Kansas City thinks it pulled a fifth-round surprise. Preseason games will show whether the Chiefs are right. And meanwhile, there are no signs of Johnson -- nor will there be for weeks, at minimum.

Bennett to start? Are you kidding me? Score on bennett in like the 14th round as a starter.