What exactly is the difference between Stafford and Freeman? (1 Viewer)

[LawFitz]

Reading through the Jimmy Clausen thread just now, made me finally decide to post this after contemplating it for a while now.

Aside from one great game against the Browns, what exactly did Stafford do last season to inspire so much confidence from so many around here and elsewhere in the FF community?

Frankly, the rest of the season he sucked. His OLine sux. Other than Calvin, who is misused terribly, his WRs suck. I do like Pettigrew, so assuming he's back 100% I suppose he's another tick on the plus side, but that's about it for me. Scheffler and Burleson? Puh-lease.

Stafford looked lost most of the time out there and other than a strong arm and a lot of moxy during that one big game, I saw nothing to get too excited about for this season. Maybe he'll continue to develop, so I guess I can buy a dynasty argument, but for redraft I don't get the hype at all.

To me Freeman looked just as good (and just as bad), but I haven't heard his name once this offseason. I wouldn't touch either of guys with a ten foot pole in a 1 QB league. In a 2 QB league I'd consider Freeman as a backup but only b/c I know he can be had at a much cheaper price (that and he's got a much better OL and I'm super high on the new Mike Williams).

Please enlighten me.

 

[bostonfred]

Calvin

Seems like you answered your own question.

 

[LawFitz]

Calvin

Seems like you answered your own question.

Ha, I love Calvin more than most, but even he doesn't justify the hype difference. Especially considering he's likely to get dinged up by week 2 running an end around.

 

[massraider]

Calvin

Seems like you answered your own question.

Ha, I love Calvin more than most, but even he doesn't justify the hype difference. Especially considering he's likely to get dinged up by week 2 running an end around.

I like the weapons in Detroit, and the offense there (for QB purposes) more than Tampa. I think Stafford has the best chance to push into that top realm of QBs. I like him more in dynasty or keeper, but I think where he's going he offers the most upside of the group he is in. I like Freeman too, who looked a lot more ready than we were led to believe last year, but I could see Stafford just throwing for a ton of yards. Rarely having a lead, not a bellcow RB, and some nice receiving options. A lot of similarities to Shaub in Houston.

 

[Brady Gaga]

If the Bucs' Mike Williams blows up like Calvin's rookie year, then the difference between Freeman and Stafford will be that Freeman is better.

 

[SproutDaddy]

If the Bucs' Mike Williams blows up like Calvin's rookie year, then the difference between Freeman and Stafford will be that Freeman is better.

Because........? This is a very vague comment with nothing to back up your opinion.

 

[LawFitz]

If the Bucs' Mike Williams blows up like Calvin's rookie year, then the difference between Freeman and Stafford will be that Freeman is better.

Because........? This is a very vague comment with nothing to back up your opinion.

I'd say it's no worse than Boston Fred's Calvin response. In both cases, a legit stud WR will help, but in neither case does it alone justify the type of hype and love Stafford is getting. I mean some people are super high on him and predicting a break out season this year. I'm not saying the guy's an utter bum, but to me at least, Ryan and Flacco looked WAY better their rookie year than did the three rookie starting QBs from last season (including Sanchize). The hype surrounding the prior two was much more understandable. And even with their much better rookie seasons and much better teams, neither Ryan nor Flacco was a dependable QB1 last year.Maybe Stafford will totally prove me wrong, but I think he has a very long way to go if he's to live up to the hype he's getting right now. And I just don't see him making that big of a jump this season.

 

[shakaka]

Freeman is just an afterthought until he does something while Stafford gets hype because he was the #1 overall pick. I'm sure even JaMarcus got some extra hype going into his second year. But Stafford has Calvin and seems to have a functioning braincell so it's a little more justified in this case.

 

[Mene]

Reading through the Jimmy Clausen thread just now, made me finally decide to post this after contemplating it for a while now.Aside from one great game against the Browns, what exactly did Stafford do last season to inspire so much confidence from so many around here and elsewhere in the FF community?Frankly, the rest of the season he sucked. His OLine sux. Other than Calvin, who is misused terribly, his WRs suck. I do like Pettigrew, so assuming he's back 100% I suppose he's another tick on the plus side, but that's about it for me. Scheffler and Burleson? Puh-lease.Stafford looked lost most of the time out there and other than a strong arm and a lot of moxy during that one big game, I saw nothing to get too excited about for this season. Maybe he'll continue to develop, so I guess I can buy a dynasty argument, but for redraft I don't get the hype at all.To me Freeman looked just as good (and just as bad), but I haven't heard his name once this offseason. I wouldn't touch either of guys with a ten foot pole in a 1 QB league. In a 2 QB league I'd consider Freeman as a backup but only b/c I know he can be had at a much cheaper price (that and he's got a much better OL and I'm super high on the new Mike Williams).Please enlighten me.

Did you honestly watch Stafford much last year? Not just highlights, but actually watch his games? I did, I watched every game that wasn't blacked out, plus a couple that were. He showed that he has an absolute rocket for an arm (I mean seriously, he can put the ball in places a lot of QB's couldn't dream of), he's confident, the team believes in him, and he works as hard as anyone. He also showed his accuracy is very inconsistent, and he trusts his arm a bit too much some times. He threw a lot of picks last year, but I seem to recall a number of them coming on 2nd & long, 3rd & long, when the team was already down a couple scores. That doesn't excuse all of them, but the context shows that often, it was him trying to make an impossible play for a horrible team. I really believe that he showed a lot of potential, and a lot of his faults and mistakes were things that can be remedied and coached out/up. All indications locally are that he is a gym rat, and that he has worked his ### off this off-season, especially with Calvin and the other receivers. I think looking at the potential he showed last year, the attitude and work ethic he's displayed, and the weapons that the Lions have surrounded him with....there is a lot of reason for optimism with Matt Stafford.**Disclaimer, I do however view this with Honolulu Blue and Silver glasses on, no matter how impartial I try to be... so perhaps I'm overly optimistic. That's not usually the case for me however, I really tend to believe the Lion's are hopeless, but Stafford... I like what I see.

 

[LawFitz]

Did you honestly watch Stafford much last year? Not just highlights, but actually watch his games? I did, I watched every game that wasn't blacked out, plus a couple that were. He showed that he has an absolute rocket for an arm (I mean seriously, he can put the ball in places a lot of QB's couldn't dream of), he's confident, the team believes in him, and he works as hard as anyone. He also showed his accuracy is very inconsistent, and he trusts his arm a bit too much some times. He threw a lot of picks last year, but I seem to recall a number of them coming on 2nd & long, 3rd & long, when the team was already down a couple scores. That doesn't excuse all of them, but the context shows that often, it was him trying to make an impossible play for a horrible team. I really believe that he showed a lot of potential, and a lot of his faults and mistakes were things that can be remedied and coached out/up. All indications locally are that he is a gym rat, and that he has worked his ### off this off-season, especially with Calvin and the other receivers. I think looking at the potential he showed last year, the attitude and work ethic he's displayed, and the weapons that the Lions have surrounded him with....there is a lot of reason for optimism with Matt Stafford.**Disclaimer, I do however view this with Honolulu Blue and Silver glasses on, no matter how impartial I try to be... so perhaps I'm overly optimistic. That's not usually the case for me however, I really tend to believe the Lion's are hopeless, but Stafford... I like what I see.

A bit embarrassing to admit this, but I have Sunday Ticket and three HD TVs set up in my living room each Sunday during the fall. That and Calvin is probably in my top five favorite players and was on both my fantasy teams last year. So yeah, I watched more of Stafford than I care to admit.I saw a guy with a strong arm, but very inconsistent accuracy and a lot of trouble reading defenses last year. Typical for a rookie, so I don't hold it against him completely, I just don't see him making the type of jump that so many are predicting for this season.I watched a lot of Freeman too and I saw just as many upside plays (and just as many bonehead plays, especially in the red zone). For both guys, I was left without any of the wow factor I felt for both Ryan and Flacco two years ago. If those two couldn't step up to decent QB1 status in year two, even with much better rookie performances and much better surrounding casts, I just don't see Stafford (or Freeman) doing it this season.For your sake (and Calvin's) I hope I'm wrong, but I'm not buying the hype.

 

[Iwannabeacowboybaby!]

Please enlighten me.

What made him the No. 1 overall pick in the draft in 2009? The hype surrounding Stafford isn't just what you saw on the field last season, it's everything you know about each player. Those same attributes that made him the NO. 1 overall pick hold true just a year later. Let me ask you the opposite question: Why wasn't Freeman the No. 1 player selected in the 2009 draft?I agree with you that you can't just like Stafford because he has Calvin Johnson. He had Calvin last year and he threw a ton of INT's. I'm not sure what kind of research or what each person on here does to stay informed about players but I live in Detroit and listen to the local sports talk. On their, there's plenty of talk about how M. Stafford is improving and has improved across the board from last year.You throw in that supposed improvement from his 1st year to 2nd and the supposed/potential weapons they've added in T. Schefler, Nate Burleson, J. Best, and 2nd year TE now in B. Pettigrew, and Oline upgrades, you can see why there's optimism and why one would naturally think that the No. 1 pick overall could/should put up better numbers than his rookie year.Keep this in mind, Matthew Stafford took over the worst team in history. The year he was drafted, he took over a team that went 0 and 16. Let that sink in because that has never happened before in NFL history. They had the worst defense in the history of the NFL and to me one of the worst offensive lines. Does that sound like a recipe for success for any rookie QB?Matthew Stafford will look better this year. If Freeman outplays Stafford, then he himself will look a whole lot better because he made a ton of mistakes too. If you're off Stafford, that's OK too, maybe you're on to something but for now I see a guy who should help out in QBBC in fantasy football.

 

[Iwannabeacowboybaby!]

Did you honestly watch Stafford much last year? Not just highlights, but actually watch his games? I did, I watched every game that wasn't blacked out, plus a couple that were. He showed that he has an absolute rocket for an arm (I mean seriously, he can put the ball in places a lot of QB's couldn't dream of), he's confident, the team believes in him, and he works as hard as anyone. He also showed his accuracy is very inconsistent, and he trusts his arm a bit too much some times. He threw a lot of picks last year, but I seem to recall a number of them coming on 2nd & long, 3rd & long, when the team was already down a couple scores. That doesn't excuse all of them, but the context shows that often, it was him trying to make an impossible play for a horrible team. I really believe that he showed a lot of potential, and a lot of his faults and mistakes were things that can be remedied and coached out/up.

All indications locally are that he is a gym rat, and that he has worked his ### off this off-season, especially with Calvin and the other receivers. I think looking at the potential he showed last year, the attitude and work ethic he's displayed, and the weapons that the Lions have surrounded him with....there is a lot of reason for optimism with Matt Stafford.

**Disclaimer, I do however view this with Honolulu Blue and Silver glasses on, no matter how impartial I try to be... so perhaps I'm overly optimistic. That's not usually the case for me however, I really tend to believe the Lion's are hopeless, but Stafford... I like what I see.

A bit embarrassing to admit this, but I have Sunday Ticket and three HD TVs set up in my living room each Sunday during the fall. That and Calvin is probably in my top five favorite players and was on both my fantasy teams last year. So yeah, I watched more of Stafford than I care to admit.I saw a guy with a strong arm, but very inconsistent accuracy and a lot of trouble reading defenses last year. Typical for a rookie, so I don't hold it against him completely, I just don't see him making the type of jump that so many are predicting for this season.

I watched a lot of Freeman too and I saw just as many upside plays (and just as many bonehead plays, especially in the red zone). For both guys, I was left without any of the wow factor I felt for both Ryan and Flacco two years ago. If those two couldn't step up to decent QB1 status in year two, even with much better rookie performances and much better surrounding casts, I just don't see Stafford (or Freeman) doing it this season.

For your sake (and Calvin's) I hope I'm wrong, but I'm not buying the hype.

That's funny, not funny haha but funny odd. I was the opposite. I saw both Ryan and Flacco two years ago and I really didn't like what I saw, at least not to the degree everyone else was all over both of those guys. I wasn't close to drafting either one of those guys last year nor am I on either this year. I honestly don't even know if Flacco is better than Marc Bulger in terms of fantasy football. If Bulger played a full game for Baltimore and Flacco did, I'd like to see both sets of numbers because he makes some timing throws that I've never seen Flacco throw. But either way, stick to your gut. It paid off for me last year in not drafting drafting these guys because at least fantasy football wise, they didn't take that big step forward as many predicted and who knows, maybe Stafford won't either. I thought I saw something in Stafford last season, so I'm going to bet on him.

 

[Sabertooth]

Swagger

 

[Nagle2998]

Did you honestly watch Stafford much last year? Not just highlights, but actually watch his games? I did, I watched every game that wasn't blacked out, plus a couple that were. He showed that he has an absolute rocket for an arm (I mean seriously, he can put the ball in places a lot of QB's couldn't dream of), he's confident, the team believes in him, and he works as hard as anyone. He also showed his accuracy is very inconsistent, and he trusts his arm a bit too much some times. He threw a lot of picks last year, but I seem to recall a number of them coming on 2nd & long, 3rd & long, when the team was already down a couple scores. That doesn't excuse all of them, but the context shows that often, it was him trying to make an impossible play for a horrible team. I really believe that he showed a lot of potential, and a lot of his faults and mistakes were things that can be remedied and coached out/up.

All indications locally are that he is a gym rat, and that he has worked his ### off this off-season, especially with Calvin and the other receivers. I think looking at the potential he showed last year, the attitude and work ethic he's displayed, and the weapons that the Lions have surrounded him with....there is a lot of reason for optimism with Matt Stafford.

**Disclaimer, I do however view this with Honolulu Blue and Silver glasses on, no matter how impartial I try to be... so perhaps I'm overly optimistic. That's not usually the case for me however, I really tend to believe the Lion's are hopeless, but Stafford... I like what I see.

I didn't own any Lions last year so the only time I really watched them last year was when they were playing one of my players and when that player wasn't on the field I turned the station to one of my other guys for the most part. So saying that I don't know a ton about Stafford except for what I read but I have watched a lot of Freeman since I own him in a few leagues and I like his upside. The question I have is everything you wrote about Stafford can also be said about Freeman and the question is what makes Stafford better. I'm not saying he isn't or is just wondering why many think he is even though Freeman did just as much with less weapons.

 

[jurb26]

I'm not saying he isn't or is just wondering why many think he is even though Freeman did just as much with less weapons.

I didn't watch Freeman at all last year so I'm not going to chime in on comparing the 2. However, I don't think any QB in the NFL worked with less than Stafford last year. He had only 1 viable option to throw to and he was never open because coverage was rolled to him constantly. At least Freeman had Winslow and Bryant (for most the season). He had no running game to speak of, not that TB did either. Det again had the worst defense in the NFL. The Oline was downright horrible.

 

[Nagle2998]

I'm not saying he isn't or is just wondering why many think he is even though Freeman did just as much with less weapons.

I didn't watch Freeman at all last year so I'm not going to chime in on comparing the 2. However, I don't think any QB in the NFL worked with less than Stafford last year. He had only 1 viable option to throw to and he was never open because coverage was rolled to him constantly. At least Freeman had Winslow and Bryant (for most the season). He had no running game to speak of, not that TB did either. Det again had the worst defense in the NFL. The Oline was downright horrible.

I agree that Stafford probably had a little less help then Freeman only because I think the Bucs line was better but other then that both Qb's had garbage for help. I wouldn't count Bryant as a weapon last year considering he looked hurt all year and got over 100 yards once and totaled 600 for the year. Now Winlsow was very good last year and so was Calvin so I think the recieving help that both Qb's got was very close but again I gave the slight edge to Freeman but again only because of his line. Neither Qb had a very good year but both seem to have upside the only question is whose upside do you like more.

 

[latrops]

Reading through the Jimmy Clausen thread just now, made me finally decide to post this after contemplating it for a while now.Aside from one great game against the Browns, what exactly did Stafford do last season to inspire so much confidence from so many around here and elsewhere in the FF community?Frankly, the rest of the season he sucked. His OLine sux. Other than Calvin, who is misused terribly, his WRs suck. I do like Pettigrew, so assuming he's back 100% I suppose he's another tick on the plus side, but that's about it for me. Scheffler and Burleson? Puh-lease.Stafford looked lost most of the time out there and other than a strong arm and a lot of moxy during that one big game, I saw nothing to get too excited about for this season. Maybe he'll continue to develop, so I guess I can buy a dynasty argument, but for redraft I don't get the hype at all.To me Freeman looked just as good (and just as bad), but I haven't heard his name once this offseason. I wouldn't touch either of guys with a ten foot pole in a 1 QB league. In a 2 QB league I'd consider Freeman as a backup but only b/c I know he can be had at a much cheaper price (that and he's got a much better OL and I'm super high on the new Mike Williams).Please enlighten me.

The Jimmy Clausen thread....you mean the one where some are saying Clausen is better than Stafford based on Clausen's first preseason game? I hope that isn't the hype you are talking about. Seriously, I'm not seeing that much Stafford hype. He is a qb you can probably draft fairly late that has decent qb2 upside. He was the first overall pick, has a very strong arm, and has Calvin Johnson among his weapons...that is enough to warrant some optimism.Stafford is being drafted at qb 18 between Chad Henne and Alex Smith. If you put Freeman right there, so be it. We aren't talking about stud qbs....it is mostly a measure of just getting a qb that is safe and won't hurt you if/when you have to play him, or a guy with great upside. I think most feel Freeman has a great deal of potential to hurt you, if you have to play him. He is going undrafted in standard 10/12 team leagues. He's right there for you if you like him. My problem with him is that, for him to be worth really looking at I have to think he has a good chance of being a top 24 qb (in a 12 team league). It's possible, but I don't think it is a "good" chance.All that said, I do like Mike Williams. I view him to have more potential to make a meaningful fantasy impact in 2010 than I do Josh Freeman.

 

[jurb26]

I'm not saying he isn't or is just wondering why many think he is even though Freeman did just as much with less weapons.

I didn't watch Freeman at all last year so I'm not going to chime in on comparing the 2. However, I don't think any QB in the NFL worked with less than Stafford last year. He had only 1 viable option to throw to and he was never open because coverage was rolled to him constantly. At least Freeman had Winslow and Bryant (for most the season). He had no running game to speak of, not that TB did either. Det again had the worst defense in the NFL. The Oline was downright horrible.

I agree that Stafford probably had a little less help then Freeman only because I think the Bucs line was better but other then that both Qb's had garbage for help. I wouldn't count Bryant as a weapon last year considering he looked hurt all year and got over 100 yards once and totaled 600 for the year. Now Winlsow was very good last year and so was Calvin so I think the recieving help that both Qb's got was very close but again I gave the slight edge to Freeman but again only because of his line. Neither Qb had a very good year but both seem to have upside the only question is whose upside do you like more.

I like Stafford more and by a pretty big margin. If you have followed most of the discussion around here on Stafford you would probably notice that I've been pretty much driving his bandwagon for about 3 years. I simply think the guy is a special talent that will become an elite QB in the NFL so long as the folks in Det to ruin things. He's already got one of the best arms in the NFL and can make every throw. He is gutsy and handles adversity well. He came from a Pro-style offense in college and was very battle tested in the SEC. He knows how to read a defense well for a young QB. He was thrown to the wolves as a sophomore at Georgia much like he was last year in Det and he improved every single year. I think this is a critical element to realize when you talk about Stafford moving forward. A lot of guys may not be able to grow in an environment like Det last year but I believe Stafford still did. You can tell he has great work ethic because of that improvement and how he developed his fundamentals. I think he is a natural leader and all of the reports you hear this off-season out of Det are verifying that, Det is becoming his team is the overall theme you seem to hear. The only real issue I have with Stafford is his overconfidence in his arm at times. He takes unnecessary risks because of it and has to learn that you just can't do that as often in the NFL. I've listened to interviews he's done the past several months and from what I understand this is one of the primary things he has worked on over the summer. He seems to have identified the issue and is taking the proper steps to correct it, which is all you can ask of a young QB. I don't know if Det is really ready to make him a star because I think the oline still needs a ton of work. I like that they added weapons for him and I think that is an indicative sign of how the team feels about him as well. I don't know if you are expecting people to rank one above the other because of their situation or because of the players themselves. My stance on the question is that Stafford is a special player and because of that the situations don't matter as much. I agree that both QBs come from poor situations so it is pretty comparable anyway. Both teams clearly like their QBs IMO because it seems both teams made a conscious effort to make their environments better.

 

[benbadman]

A bit embarrassing to admit this, but I have Sunday Ticket and three HD TVs set up in my living room each Sunday during the fall. That and Calvin is probably in my top five favorite players and was on both my fantasy teams last year. So yeah, I watched more of Stafford than I care to admit.

Don't be embarrassed, we have 3 HD tvs and Sunday ticket too. We keep the setup year round too! The girlfriend is a big Huskers fan, so we'll be watching every Suh/VandenBosch snap.

 

[CalBear]

He threw a lot of picks last year, but I seem to recall a number of them coming on 2nd & long, 3rd & long, when the team was already down a couple scores.

If he doesn't play well when when the team is down a couple scores, Detroit's the wrong place for him.

 

[Matt Waldman]

Freeman and Stafford are both good prospects.

Stafford looked bad because, as many said here, he was playing from behind with few good receiving weapons against defenses set to run more complex stuff that wouldn't fly if a) the Lions opened up the offense and allowed Stafford to make more changes at the LOS and b) what weapons he had were hurt for much of the year.

Stafford got painted into a corner quite a bit last year, and not always by his own doing. Rarely do you hear coaches say they didn't open the offense not because of the QB, who they felt could handle it, but his surrounding talent.

Freeman could be very good too and I think he is under-hyped because his WRs are rookies or journeymen. The Lions starters are better on paper. If the TB WRs pan out in year-one Freeman could be a major surprise, but no one is going to say that on a national media platform until they see how well Freeman's surrounding talent plays.