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What happened to SSND's film room thread? (1 Viewer)

FF Ninja

Footballguy
He had mentioned in the thread that he was going to leave his spreadsheet up for a few weeks, but soon it would only be accessible through patreon. Maybe he decided to expedite that?

 

SameSongNDance

Footballguy
Please tell me it wasn't taken down by mods?

@SameSongNDance
Nah man, the mods didn't remove the post. I removed it.

I had family and friends telling me that I'm a moron for putting so much time and effort into something and handing it out for free. And after taking a step back and looking at it I kind of had to agree. Monetizing what I was doing didn't seem like a realistic goal either.

I'm generally going to be taking a bit of a break. Even though I'm still in a bunch of leagues and have a fair share of money invested I'm noticing diminishing returns on the time I'm investing. I loved doing it but I don't think it was sustainable.

 

Long Ball Larry

Footballguy
Nah man, the mods didn't remove the post. I removed it.

I had family and friends telling me that I'm a moron for putting so much time and effort into something and handing it out for free. And after taking a step back and looking at it I kind of had to agree. Monetizing what I was doing didn't seem like a realistic goal either.

I'm generally going to be taking a bit of a break. Even though I'm still in a bunch of leagues and have a fair share of money invested I'm noticing diminishing returns on the time I'm investing. I loved doing it but I don't think it was sustainable.
it's too bad, because everyone loved the info, but i get what it's like when it feels more like a grind.

i would also counterpoint that sharing all that for free got you a lot of good feedback on stuff and presumably gave you a lot of ideas about how to shape and refine what you wanted to look at.  but for sure at this point, you have a good structure and content that you could definitely monetize.  if you do pick it back up, you might want to try to partner with a programmer (if someone were willing to start on spec or real cheap) to maybe get a simpler way for you to update and display the info (like baseball/nflsavant, cleaningtheglass, etc.).  I think that would really take you to another level.  gllll peas.

 

Chaka

Footballguy
Nah man, the mods didn't remove the post. I removed it.

I had family and friends telling me that I'm a moron for putting so much time and effort into something and handing it out for free. And after taking a step back and looking at it I kind of had to agree. Monetizing what I was doing didn't seem like a realistic goal either.

I'm generally going to be taking a bit of a break. Even though I'm still in a bunch of leagues and have a fair share of money invested I'm noticing diminishing returns on the time I'm investing. I loved doing it but I don't think it was sustainable.
I figured that was going to happen at some point.

Should we consider the @SameSongNDance store shuttered going forward?

Thanks for all your hard work.

 

FF Ninja

Footballguy
Nah man, the mods didn't remove the post. I removed it.

I had family and friends telling me that I'm a moron for putting so much time and effort into something and handing it out for free. And after taking a step back and looking at it I kind of had to agree. Monetizing what I was doing didn't seem like a realistic goal either.

I'm generally going to be taking a bit of a break. Even though I'm still in a bunch of leagues and have a fair share of money invested I'm noticing diminishing returns on the time I'm investing. I loved doing it but I don't think it was sustainable.
It's a lot of work for one person to do. Just an idea... if you put some feelers out there, I'm sure you could find some people to help share the load. I know I'd be down to plug that data in for a handful of teams. Get like 4-5 volunteers and give editing permission to them and suddenly what was once a grind for one is relatively light work for a team. 

 

LawFitz

Footballguy
Perhaps there is a programmer on these boards willing to write code that would scrape the data and fill the sheet automatically. That process would be a chore to set up, but would streamline the weekly workload thereafter.

Anyone with those talents willing to do so?

 
SameSongNDance said:
Nah man, the mods didn't remove the post. I removed it.

I had family and friends telling me that I'm a moron for putting so much time and effort into something and handing it out for free. And after taking a step back and looking at it I kind of had to agree. Monetizing what I was doing didn't seem like a realistic goal either.

I'm generally going to be taking a bit of a break. Even though I'm still in a bunch of leagues and have a fair share of money invested I'm noticing diminishing returns on the time I'm investing. I loved doing it but I don't think it was sustainable.
:sadbanana: but totally understandable. And thanks again for doing it all along.

@Joe Bryant and staff, please do consider making SSND part of the staff to compensate him for this fantastic contribution. I can't pretend to understand which staff positions are paid (or not) but what SSND does provides huge value, the insights are above what's provided in some of the existing staff's film analysis (and I do believe both existing features and SSND's are differentiated enough to co-exist and both drive value). 

More of this unbiased, quality analysis is only a good thing for the site brand.

 

NickyHatton

Footballguy
SameSongNDance said:
Nah man, the mods didn't remove the post. I removed it.

I had family and friends telling me that I'm a moron for putting so much time and effort into something and handing it out for free. And after taking a step back and looking at it I kind of had to agree. Monetizing what I was doing didn't seem like a realistic goal either.

I'm generally going to be taking a bit of a break. Even though I'm still in a bunch of leagues and have a fair share of money invested I'm noticing diminishing returns on the time I'm investing. I loved doing it but I don't think it was sustainable.
Big thanks to you for all the work you've put in here over the years. Your analysis is one of the best parts of these forums.

 

Chaka

Footballguy
Perhaps there is a programmer on these boards willing to write code that would scrape the data and fill the sheet automatically. That process would be a chore to set up, but would streamline the weekly workload thereafter.

Anyone with those talents willing to do so?
I am sure plenty of us would be willing to help cover the expense.

 

Biabreakable

Footballguy
The film cut ups that SSND has done very useful to share and I enjoyed sharing the discovery experience of some players with that along the way.

I totally understand wanting to focus time on something else. Perhaps some one else could pick up the baton.

@SameSongNDance where were you downloading the snaps from?

 

Truebluey

Footballguy
Hey Same, if you're getting that feedback from the family, listen to it (which you're doing apparently).

What's important in life man.

I hope we'll still see you on these boards a little bit. Love just hearing your input on the topic de jour.

THANKS! 

 

SameSongNDance

Footballguy
The film cut ups that SSND has done very useful to share and I enjoyed sharing the discovery experience of some players with that along the way.

I totally understand wanting to focus time on something else. Perhaps some one else could pick up the baton.

@SameSongNDance where were you downloading the snaps from?
You have to pay for the site that I use that provides the snap data. 

There are a lot of angles to this. I don't actually want to stop but I feel like my hand has been forced and I have to at least stop sharing what I do.

I've been providing a service to this site and to the benefit of it's owners for years for free without so much as a "thanks." Maybe they don't visit the forums or think they're valuable, I don't know. 

I'm also possibly competing against some of the people who have been getting access to the spreadsheet.

What I was doing was objectively dumb. I'll probably continue to update the spreadsheet for my own sake as I can't imagine trying to compete without it but I just won't be sharing it. I'm obviously not posting videos or sharing my analysis of them or the spreadsheet anymore either. 

#### sucks. 

 

SameSongNDance

Footballguy
I do think there are sites where you can get the snap counts for free I just don't know how quickly they update and if they're organized in a way that makes them easy to input into a spreadsheet. Try footballoutsiders.com or airyards.com. 

 

Chaka

Footballguy
I do think there are sites where you can get the snap counts for free I just don't know how quickly they update and if they're organized in a way that makes them easy to input into a spreadsheet. Try footballoutsiders.com or airyards.com. 
Pro-Football-Reference provides them but and they have utilization.  Both of which can be put into spreadsheets fairly easily but to get the info as easily accessible as you provide obviously takes a ton of work.

It's just not the same man.

 
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rockaction

Footballguy
You have to pay for the site that I use that provides the snap data. 

There are a lot of angles to this. I don't actually want to stop but I feel like my hand has been forced and I have to at least stop sharing what I do.

I've been providing a service to this site and to the benefit of it's owners for years for free without so much as a "thanks." Maybe they don't visit the forums or think they're valuable, I don't know. 

I'm also possibly competing against some of the people who have been getting access to the spreadsheet.

What I was doing was objectively dumb. I'll probably continue to update the spreadsheet for my own sake as I can't imagine trying to compete without it but I just won't be sharing it. I'm obviously not posting videos or sharing my analysis of them or the spreadsheet anymore either. 

#### sucks. 
Well, I'm a casual player that doesn't claim to be anything but, so I never really used your stuff (unless -- and occasionally, IIRC, I saw the film stuff) too in-depth, but it sounds like it was a real useful tool and that many people benefitted from your aggregation of film, information, and analysis. It's too bad you never got the recognition or publicity you deserved for your efforts. 

Best of luck this FF season to you and here's to your efforts!

:suds:

 
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Chaka

Footballguy
You could take the DirectTV model and provide a Season Pass for $XX.XX.  You could even have different tiers for those who want video cut-ups and those who only want the spreadsheet.

I am not sure what kind of revenue it would generate but, off hand I think I would pay $20/season just to access the spreadsheet.  I would pay even if I didn't use the info because I believe in supporting business I like and I doubt I am the only one.

I barely use any resources on FBGs main page and I pay every season because I have been here forever, love the forums and want @Joe Bryant to stay in business to keep it all going (but really JB you should bring back the three year plan, seriously man). 

Occasionally, very rarely, I use the target data & red zone utilization data when I am scouring the wire mid-season for some scrub injury replacement. And on Sundays I instinctively check the "Breaking News" page for late scratches even if that info gets pushed to my phone through apps first.  Truth is that I get most of my valuable info from the SP and the $ I pay is to do my part to keep the lights on.

I also occasionally use the Data Dominators, usually that is during the off-season and is related to debates in the SP.

Point being, you might have enough of a following of users and local business supporters to make a run at monetizing your work. Doubt you would generate a big profit but I could see generating enough to cover T&E and maybe cover pizza night for the family every now and again.  But who knows? I could be underestimating the size of your potential market.

 

SameSongNDance

Footballguy
I appreciate the idea @Chaka. I was going to do something like that but figured only a handful of people would be interested in actually paying anything and it wasn't worth setting up. It's hard to gauge. When I continue with the spreadsheet I could just make a tier on patreon that allows people access to it for some amount of money. But me recording videos and summarizing trends had to end, it was hilariously time consuming. 

 

Chaka

Footballguy
I appreciate the idea @Chaka. I was going to do something like that but figured only a handful of people would be interested in actually paying anything and it wasn't worth setting up. It's hard to gauge. When I continue with the spreadsheet I could just make a tier on patreon that allows people access to it for some amount of money. But me recording videos and summarizing trends had to end, it was hilariously time consuming. 
IN

 
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Biabreakable

Footballguy
SameSongNDance said:
You have to pay for the site that I use that provides the snap data. 

There are a lot of angles to this. I don't actually want to stop but I feel like my hand has been forced and I have to at least stop sharing what I do.

I've been providing a service to this site and to the benefit of it's owners for years for free without so much as a "thanks." Maybe they don't visit the forums or think they're valuable, I don't know. 

I'm also possibly competing against some of the people who have been getting access to the spreadsheet.

What I was doing was objectively dumb. I'll probably continue to update the spreadsheet for my own sake as I can't imagine trying to compete without it but I just won't be sharing it. I'm obviously not posting videos or sharing my analysis of them or the spreadsheet anymore either. 

#### sucks. 
You are right that any competitive advantage you may have gained by this is diminished if people you are competing against are using it against you.

What you are doing by combining different data sets into the spread sheet is creating an asset. Normally assets are valued ($$) and considered intellectual property of whoever is paying for the asset to be created. In this case no one has been paying you to do it, so makes sense to keep it until/unless someone does.

I was poking around with nfl gsis a bit the other day, and they have a lot more stats than I had noticed before. They have information about how many times each team had specific personnel groupings for example. There is really a lot there. It is not in a downloadable format that I am aware of however.

PFR has all of the data you have been putting together, however for offensive snaps you would still have to download this team by team, which takes time, and then the other data such as targets and so on. There may be a faster way to do this through PFR than I am aware of, but what I can see there, it would take some time.

As far as FBGs I am guessing they do something like this on their player pages. I am not sure if they have an asset that combines all the information in the way that you have, that makes it pretty easy to find in one place or not.

I usually see snaps separate from other player stats.

There are a lot of folks around here who are savvy with spreadsheets. Thus my question about how you were getting the source data. My thought was that maybe someone else might have an easier way of doing it. 

For me I enjoy the discussion about specific players that comes out of this, and you have done a terrific job of analyzing and interpreting the data that adds insight into what is going on with specific teams and situations.

For example the Arizona Cardinals after two games have only averaged 23 minutes per game in time of possession. They have the fewest offensive snaps of all teams right now.

Vernon Davis has played more snaps than Jordan Reed, but not nearly close to the number of targets. He is blocking. I had hoped some of the previous chemistry with Alex Smith would lead to Davis being targeted more than he has been, thus why I was looking to see if he was playing a lot or not. He has been.

And so on.

 

Mr. Irrelevant

IBL Representative
I appreciate the idea @Chaka. I was going to do something like that but figured only a handful of people would be interested in actually paying anything and it wasn't worth setting up. It's hard to gauge. When I continue with the spreadsheet I could just make a tier on patreon that allows people access to it for some amount of money. But me recording videos and summarizing trends had to end, it was hilariously time consuming. 
Just to echo Chaka's sentiment - I'd be in for any or all of the options you wanted to offer. I have several friends that play in other leagues for larger $$$ than I do that I have a feeling would gladly pony up as well. Growth by word of mouth is still a powerful force, even in the social media era.

If you feel like starting small you'd most likely get the biggest ROI on your time / effort with the Google SS. Most everyone I follow or support who watches film does it (or did if for years) as a labor of love rather than a business proposition so I totally understand why you wouldn't want to jump down that hole.

I'll follow this thread hoping for some positive developments, but best of luck to you no matter what.  :bow:

 

Joe Bryant

Guide
Staff member
SameSongNDance said:
You have to pay for the site that I use that provides the snap data. 

There are a lot of angles to this. I don't actually want to stop but I feel like my hand has been forced and I have to at least stop sharing what I do.

I've been providing a service to this site and to the benefit of it's owners for years for free without so much as a "thanks." Maybe they don't visit the forums or think they're valuable, I don't know. 

I'm also possibly competing against some of the people who have been getting access to the spreadsheet.

What I was doing was objectively dumb. I'll probably continue to update the spreadsheet for my own sake as I can't imagine trying to compete without it but I just won't be sharing it. I'm obviously not posting videos or sharing my analysis of them or the spreadsheet anymore either. 

#### sucks. 
Hi @SameSongNDance  Thanks for the contributions on the board. I'm thankful to everyone who posts great content and I should do a better job of individually thanking them. My apologies.  Sorry to hear you won't be continuing but I fully understand. The work to reward has to balance and that's different for everyone. Best to you in all you're doing and thanks the great posts. All the best to you. 

 

Joe Bryant

Guide
Staff member
FWIW, my thought on the "I'm also possibly competing against some of the people who have been getting access to the spreadsheet."

This is a decision I think everyone in the industry has to make. I think you have to be either all in on one side or the other there. If you're going to give advice, you have to throw out any consideration whatsoever that you're helping someone you compete against. That's just life. I don't think it's possible to do a good job giving information if you're holding back any at all. 

 

SameSongNDance

Footballguy
FWIW, my thought on the "I'm also possibly competing against some of the people who have been getting access to the spreadsheet."

This is a decision I think everyone in the industry has to make. I think you have to be either all in on one side or the other there. If you're going to give advice, you have to throw out any consideration whatsoever that you're helping someone you compete against. That's just life. I don't think it's possible to do a good job giving information if you're holding back any at all.
Thanks for the kind words and I completely agree. If this were my profession I wouldn't care if I was helping out competition. But as it stood my labor of love sort of started to feel like free labor. I don't think it was completely one-sided though, as I did find the input from people on this board useful and it did help me tailor the spreadsheet and my process. 

Speaking of which, if anyone still wants to follow the spreadsheet here is a link to my patreon. I'm going to continue updating it every Monday and appreciate anyone who wants to come along for the ride. 

 

The Frankman

Footballguy
I do think there are sites where you can get the snap counts for free I just don't know how quickly they update and if they're organized in a way that makes them easy to input into a spreadsheet. Try footballoutsiders.com or airyards.com. 
They give it for free on Wednesdays, also Pat Mayo updates snap counts on Twitter by Monday night, however he does occasionally skip a few players.

 

mnmplayer

Footballguy
Ssnd. I have enjoyed this thread the past couple years and it has helped me make and have confidence in my decisions so thank you for that. I know that it's not the same as making money but just know that I'm sure many others feel the same. I don't pay for ffb information or advice but if I did I would follow you. Also The Matrix was my all-time favorite movie so I'm sure we'd get along in real life. Take care brother.

I also wanted to add that I was going nuts when I was doing my workout frantically doing searches looking for your old thread that you took down. I usually work out when I watch the condensed games each week and I finally had to stop working out and get serious about my searching until I found this thread and realize oops it's gone forever. Sad day

 
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SameSongNDance

Footballguy
Ssnd. I have enjoyed this thread the past couple years and it has helped me make and have confidence in my decisions so thank you for that. I know that it's not the same as making money but just know that I'm sure many others feel the same. I don't pay for ffb information or advice but if I did I would follow you. Also The Matrix was my all-time favorite movie so I'm sure we'd get along in real life. Take care brother.

I also wanted to add that I was going nuts when I was doing my workout frantically doing searches looking for your old thread that you took down. I usually work out when I watch the condensed games each week and I finally had to stop working out and get serious about my searching until I found this thread and realize oops it's gone forever. Sad day
Lol I do the same, yeah we'd get along. I appreciate the kind words man. And trust me I completely understand where you're when you say you don't pay for ff advice. Part of the game is squeezing out every ounce of value from free resources. 

 

SameSongNDance

Footballguy
It's my fault, I told him to monetize his work & told him about Patreon
Not only do I blame you for this situation but I've started blaming you for anything that goes wrong in my everyday life.

I dinged my car door yesterday and I literally said out loud "### ###### BobbyLayne."

 
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hagmania

Footballguy
Made my money back for last month in DFS imo. :D

John Ross and Taylor Gabriel helped me spend big elsewhere (read as: put Alvin Kamara in literally every lineup) and paid off in spades! Thanks brohan.

 

Deamon

Footballguy
I'm still making posting about spreadsheet observations but it's on reddit and it's not all encompassing. 
I'm actually not sure how I've missed this over the years and have never even seen it.  That being said, all the talk has me curious and it obviously is very helpful.  You're of course welcome to charge as you see fit for the value of your time, I just don't think PERSONALLY it would be worth $135 for the rest of the season for me.  I hope to see you get up to 60 Patrons though, seems like you put a lot of work in.

 

SameSongNDance

Footballguy
I'm actually not sure how I've missed this over the years and have never even seen it. That being said, all the talk has me curious and it obviously is very helpful. You're of course welcome to charge as you see fit for the value of your time, I just don't think PERSONALLY it would be worth $135 for the rest of the season for me. I hope to see you get up to 60 Patrons though, seems like you put a lot of work in.
I can't alter Patreon's payment schedule or the tier price after I've initiated it which sucks. But you can technically just become a patron for a month and cancel and still get access to the spreadsheet. And I guess it would be $30 for the rest of the season. It's kind of what I envisioned when I started it.

We'll see, I'm constantly building on it. 

 

hagmania

Footballguy
I'm actually not sure how I've missed this over the years and have never even seen it.  That being said, all the talk has me curious and it obviously is very helpful.  You're of course welcome to charge as you see fit for the value of your time, I just don't think PERSONALLY it would be worth $135 for the rest of the season for me.  I hope to see you get up to 60 Patrons though, seems like you put a lot of work in.
For the record, that is the current total pledged amount to SSND. The tier pricing is on the right sidebar.

 

Deamon

Footballguy
I can't alter Patreon's payment schedule or the tier price after I've initiated it which sucks. But you can technically just become a patron for a month and cancel and still get access to the spreadsheet. And I guess it would be $30 for the rest of the season. It's kind of what I envisioned when I started it.

We'll see, I'm constantly building on it. 


For the record, that is the current total pledged amount to SSND. The tier pricing is on the right sidebar.
Ah ok didn't see that, my bad.  Thought it was $45/month like I saw on the left side.

 

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