What is left to say about the New England Patriots? (1 Viewer)

[Jake22]

I think the Pats organization deserves a lot of credit but at the end of they day, they lucked out with Tom Brady. There would be no Superbowls or any of the other accolades without that guy. Belichick might not even still be the coach.

You think Tom Brady would be *the* Tom Brady if he went to the Browns or some other NFL wasteland?I'm not a NE fanboy and I'm certainly not a hater. I just can't help but respect the high level of quality that this organization has demonstrated for a long time now in the free agency era.

Not only are they competitive season in and season out, they also always seem to have a whack load of draft picks to continually reload year in and year out. Belichik plug-and-plays the players he has into the positions he can and then adapts his scheme around what he has to work with. His team can always beat you in at least a few different ways.

And, when a player costs too much or becomes a distraction, they know when to pull the trigger on getting rid of them. Conversely, they have also rehabilitated a number of players from other teams at bargain-basement costs to acquire.

I'm not saying they have the Midas touch, because they have whiffed on occasion too, but, show me a team that doesn't -- now show me a team with the level of success they've strung together recently (hint: there aren't many).

Outside of 1985, the Patriots were an NFL wasteland like the Browns until Parcells was hired. And even then, they never won a Superbowl until Brady came along. It's fun to speculate what might have been if he had been drafted by another team with a decent front office. How much longer might Mariucci have coached the 49ers if they had drafted Brady instead of a guy like Giovanni Carmazzi or Tim Rattay? I really do think it's possible that Belichick might not be HC of the Pats today if they had never drafted Brady. But we'll never know.

Belichick's team did defeat the 2001 13-3 Steelers, in Pittsburgh, in the AFC Championship game, with Drew Bledsoe at quarterback. It was Bledsoe who hoisted that first Lamar Hunt trophy in the air. Brady was injured. There might not be a tougher place to play than in Pittsburgh for the title. And yet the Patriots got it done without Brady.

Yeah, that, and some good film of the steelers plays...when hines ward says "it was odd how they were jumping our routes all day", that tells me the patriots were getting more info than they were allowed by league rules, which is why they got caught cheating...

Nobody can really be dumb enough to believe this, can they?

I believe BB paid a hefty fine for getting caught cheating...so you're saying that he didn't get fined for this??Sorry if I brought facts into the argument...

 

[Frenchy Fuqua]

Here's something that ain't been said - for all BB's greatness, he is an idiot as well.

Something like 24 draft picks on defense over the last 5 years - and that's what he puts on the field? I understand his picks were late but you have to hit on a couple. Plus he consistently trades down - there's no reason to trade down unless you are smarter than everyone else. You trade down cause you can get the player you want later.

Woodhead made some nice receptions - but that guy should not be carrying the ball against an opponent of the Giants caliber - wasted downs.

Why is Edelman the best choice to play DB in the regular season but not in the SB? Because you can get anyway with it against lesser opponents and look cool doing it. But the reality is he doesn't belong on the field on D.

I don't know which to weigh more heavily -- the fact that he can win with a defensive unit like that or the fact that he built that crappy defense to begin with. It occurred to me more than once this year that, should Brady go down, the Pats would look an awful lot like Indianapolis after Peyton's injury.

Completely untrue.First of all, Belichick would never let his team quit on themselves like Indy did.

Second, the Pats have the best 2nd and 3rd string QB's in the league. They will not miss a beat without Brady, as long as BB is there.

That's just flat out ignorant. Brady is a HOFer and Hoyer + Mallett have never started an NFL game.

You also have a short memory. Belichick is 51-62 in games Brady hasn't started. Plenty of those teams "quit" on him. Hell the whole city of Cleveland quit on him after he went 5-11 in 1995 and threw him out of town along with the team.

 

[PatsFanCT]

I think the Pats organization deserves a lot of credit but at the end of they day, they lucked out with Tom Brady. There would be no Superbowls or any of the other accolades without that guy. Belichick might not even still be the coach.

You think Tom Brady would be *the* Tom Brady if he went to the Browns or some other NFL wasteland?I'm not a NE fanboy and I'm certainly not a hater. I just can't help but respect the high level of quality that this organization has demonstrated for a long time now in the free agency era.

Not only are they competitive season in and season out, they also always seem to have a whack load of draft picks to continually reload year in and year out. Belichik plug-and-plays the players he has into the positions he can and then adapts his scheme around what he has to work with. His team can always beat you in at least a few different ways.

And, when a player costs too much or becomes a distraction, they know when to pull the trigger on getting rid of them. Conversely, they have also rehabilitated a number of players from other teams at bargain-basement costs to acquire.

I'm not saying they have the Midas touch, because they have whiffed on occasion too, but, show me a team that doesn't -- now show me a team with the level of success they've strung together recently (hint: there aren't many).

Outside of 1985, the Patriots were an NFL wasteland like the Browns until Parcells was hired. And even then, they never won a Superbowl until Brady came along. It's fun to speculate what might have been if he had been drafted by another team with a decent front office. How much longer might Mariucci have coached the 49ers if they had drafted Brady instead of a guy like Giovanni Carmazzi or Tim Rattay? I really do think it's possible that Belichick might not be HC of the Pats today if they had never drafted Brady. But we'll never know.

Belichick's team did defeat the 2001 13-3 Steelers, in Pittsburgh, in the AFC Championship game, with Drew Bledsoe at quarterback. It was Bledsoe who hoisted that first Lamar Hunt trophy in the air. Brady was injured. There might not be a tougher place to play than in Pittsburgh for the title. And yet the Patriots got it done without Brady.

Yeah, that, and some good film of the steelers plays...when hines ward says "it was odd how they were jumping our routes all day", that tells me the patriots were getting more info than they were allowed by league rules, which is why they got caught cheating...

Nobody can really be dumb enough to believe this, can they?

I believe BB paid a hefty fine for getting caught cheating...so you're saying that he didn't get fined for this??Sorry if I brought facts into the argument...

He paid a fine for seven minutes of videotaping on the sidelines in 2007, not for cheating. You can think they cheated if it makes you feel better, but in 2001, when they beat the Steelers, videotaping from the sideline was legal. Every team video tapes games, or do you think they rely on ESPN for their film? Sorry to bring facts into the argument.

 

[bucsbaby]

Here's something that ain't been said - for all BB's greatness, he is an idiot as well.

Something like 24 draft picks on defense over the last 5 years - and that's what he puts on the field? I understand his picks were late but you have to hit on a couple. Plus he consistently trades down - there's no reason to trade down unless you are smarter than everyone else. You trade down cause you can get the player you want later.

Woodhead made some nice receptions - but that guy should not be carrying the ball against an opponent of the Giants caliber - wasted downs.

Why is Edelman the best choice to play DB in the regular season but not in the SB? Because you can get anyway with it against lesser opponents and look cool doing it. But the reality is he doesn't belong on the field on D.

I don't know which to weigh more heavily -- the fact that he can win with a defensive unit like that or the fact that he built that crappy defense to begin with. It occurred to me more than once this year that, should Brady go down, the Pats would look an awful lot like Indianapolis after Peyton's injury.

Completely untrue.First of all, Belichick would never let his team quit on themselves like Indy did.

Second, the Pats have the best 2nd and 3rd string QB's in the league. They will not miss a beat without Brady, as long as BB is there.

That's just flat out ignorant. Brady is a HOFer and Hoyer + Mallett have never started an NFL game.

You also have a short memory. Belichick is 51-62 in games Brady hasn't started. Plenty of those teams "quit" on him. Hell the whole city of Cleveland quit on him after he went 5-11 in 1995 and threw him out of town along with the team.

Isn't it possible that he improved as a coach over the course of the last 17 years?

 

[Frenchy Fuqua]

Isn't it possible that Belichick's next QB won't be a Hall of Famer?

 

[Carolina Hustler]

I think the Pats organization deserves a lot of credit but at the end of they day, they lucked out with Tom Brady. There would be no Superbowls or any of the other accolades without that guy. Belichick might not even still be the coach.

You think Tom Brady would be *the* Tom Brady if he went to the Browns or some other NFL wasteland?I'm not a NE fanboy and I'm certainly not a hater. I just can't help but respect the high level of quality that this organization has demonstrated for a long time now in the free agency era.

Not only are they competitive season in and season out, they also always seem to have a whack load of draft picks to continually reload year in and year out. Belichik plug-and-plays the players he has into the positions he can and then adapts his scheme around what he has to work with. His team can always beat you in at least a few different ways.

And, when a player costs too much or becomes a distraction, they know when to pull the trigger on getting rid of them. Conversely, they have also rehabilitated a number of players from other teams at bargain-basement costs to acquire.

I'm not saying they have the Midas touch, because they have whiffed on occasion too, but, show me a team that doesn't -- now show me a team with the level of success they've strung together recently (hint: there aren't many).

Outside of 1985, the Patriots were an NFL wasteland like the Browns until Parcells was hired. And even then, they never won a Superbowl until Brady came along. It's fun to speculate what might have been if he had been drafted by another team with a decent front office. How much longer might Mariucci have coached the 49ers if they had drafted Brady instead of a guy like Giovanni Carmazzi or Tim Rattay? I really do think it's possible that Belichick might not be HC of the Pats today if they had never drafted Brady. But we'll never know.

Belichick's team did defeat the 2001 13-3 Steelers, in Pittsburgh, in the AFC Championship game, with Drew Bledsoe at quarterback. It was Bledsoe who hoisted that first Lamar Hunt trophy in the air. Brady was injured. There might not be a tougher place to play than in Pittsburgh for the title. And yet the Patriots got it done without Brady.

Yeah, that, and some good film of the steelers plays...when hines ward says "it was odd how they were jumping our routes all day", that tells me the patriots were getting more info than they were allowed by league rules, which is why they got caught cheating...

Nobody can really be dumb enough to believe this, can they?

Believe what? That the Pats cheated, and that there was an advantage gained?

Yes. that's pretty dumb to believe. Especially considering that in 2001 videotaping from the sideline was allowed.

Wow bud, so now you're going to say they didn't cheat..?

 

[Carolina Hustler]

I think the Pats organization deserves a lot of credit but at the end of they day, they lucked out with Tom Brady. There would be no Superbowls or any of the other accolades without that guy. Belichick might not even still be the coach.

You think Tom Brady would be *the* Tom Brady if he went to the Browns or some other NFL wasteland?I'm not a NE fanboy and I'm certainly not a hater. I just can't help but respect the high level of quality that this organization has demonstrated for a long time now in the free agency era.

Not only are they competitive season in and season out, they also always seem to have a whack load of draft picks to continually reload year in and year out. Belichik plug-and-plays the players he has into the positions he can and then adapts his scheme around what he has to work with. His team can always beat you in at least a few different ways.

And, when a player costs too much or becomes a distraction, they know when to pull the trigger on getting rid of them. Conversely, they have also rehabilitated a number of players from other teams at bargain-basement costs to acquire.

I'm not saying they have the Midas touch, because they have whiffed on occasion too, but, show me a team that doesn't -- now show me a team with the level of success they've strung together recently (hint: there aren't many).

Outside of 1985, the Patriots were an NFL wasteland like the Browns until Parcells was hired. And even then, they never won a Superbowl until Brady came along. It's fun to speculate what might have been if he had been drafted by another team with a decent front office. How much longer might Mariucci have coached the 49ers if they had drafted Brady instead of a guy like Giovanni Carmazzi or Tim Rattay? I really do think it's possible that Belichick might not be HC of the Pats today if they had never drafted Brady. But we'll never know.

Belichick's team did defeat the 2001 13-3 Steelers, in Pittsburgh, in the AFC Championship game, with Drew Bledsoe at quarterback. It was Bledsoe who hoisted that first Lamar Hunt trophy in the air. Brady was injured. There might not be a tougher place to play than in Pittsburgh for the title. And yet the Patriots got it done without Brady.

Yeah, that, and some good film of the steelers plays...when hines ward says "it was odd how they were jumping our routes all day", that tells me the patriots were getting more info than they were allowed by league rules, which is why they got caught cheating...

Nobody can really be dumb enough to believe this, can they?

I believe BB paid a hefty fine for getting caught cheating...so you're saying that he didn't get fined for this??Sorry if I brought facts into the argument...

He paid a fine for seven minutes of videotaping on the sidelines in 2007, not for cheating. You can think they cheated if it makes you feel better, but in 2001, when they beat the Steelers, videotaping from the sideline was legal. Every team video tapes games, or do you think they rely on ESPN for their film? Sorry to bring facts into the argument.

Cheat - to violate rules or regulations

You saying they didn't do this?

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Pat fans keep trying to rewrite history.

 

[DawnBTVS]

In regards to the Hines Ward quote about the Patriots jumping routes... it seems that it was all about the wide receivers tipping themselves off in film study. Belichick is well known for his film study and tendency to figure out tells (see the Rams and the way they tipped run/pass depending on how they lined up Marshall Faulk).http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04305/404012.stm

For one, Ward said the receivers no longer tip off plays by the way they line up, something he noticed from that game.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

In regards to the Hines Ward quote about the Patriots jumping routes... it seems that it was all about the wide receivers tipping themselves off in film study. Belichick is well known for his film study and tendency to figure out tells (see the Rams and the way they tipped run/pass depending on how they lined up Marshall Faulk).

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04305/404012.stm

For one, Ward said the receivers no longer tip off plays by the way they line up, something he noticed from that game.

Umm, defensive signals were predominant.It was Polamalu after '04 afccg stating "its like they knew our plays", which was restated by a couple other players.

Except, of course, in the case of the Steelers, the Pats* turned in both offensive and defensive signals (I think the Rams also) and also multiple recordings. Not to mention what wasn't turned in.

That Ward quote is Ward assuming its the explanation for '02, nothing more. He was trying to find an answer for their uncanny knowledge.

 

[DeCleater]

They can't beat the Giants.

 

[PatsFanCT]

In regards to the Hines Ward quote about the Patriots jumping routes... it seems that it was all about the wide receivers tipping themselves off in film study. Belichick is well known for his film study and tendency to figure out tells (see the Rams and the way they tipped run/pass depending on how they lined up Marshall Faulk).

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04305/404012.stm

For one, Ward said the receivers no longer tip off plays by the way they line up, something he noticed from that game.

Umm, defensive signals were predominant.It was Polamalu after '04 afccg stating "its like they knew our plays", which was restated by a couple other players.

Except, of course, in the case of the Steelers, the Pats* turned in both offensive and defensive signals (I think the Rams also) and also multiple recordings. Not to mention what wasn't turned in.

That Ward quote is Ward assuming its the explanation for '02, nothing more. He was trying to find an answer for their uncanny knowledge.

This could be the most ignorant post I have read in years. Anyone who really believes the Pats have some kind of James Bond hidden camera spy equipment system going on, must be a bunch of slowtarded window lickers.

 

[PatsFanCT]

Here's something that ain't been said - for all BB's greatness, he is an idiot as well.

Something like 24 draft picks on defense over the last 5 years - and that's what he puts on the field? I understand his picks were late but you have to hit on a couple. Plus he consistently trades down - there's no reason to trade down unless you are smarter than everyone else. You trade down cause you can get the player you want later.

Woodhead made some nice receptions - but that guy should not be carrying the ball against an opponent of the Giants caliber - wasted downs.

Why is Edelman the best choice to play DB in the regular season but not in the SB? Because you can get anyway with it against lesser opponents and look cool doing it. But the reality is he doesn't belong on the field on D.

I don't know which to weigh more heavily -- the fact that he can win with a defensive unit like that or the fact that he built that crappy defense to begin with. It occurred to me more than once this year that, should Brady go down, the Pats would look an awful lot like Indianapolis after Peyton's injury.

Completely untrue.First of all, Belichick would never let his team quit on themselves like Indy did.

Second, the Pats have the best 2nd and 3rd string QB's in the league. They will not miss a beat without Brady, as long as BB is there.

That's just flat out ignorant. Brady is a HOFer and Hoyer + Mallett have never started an NFL game.

You also have a short memory. Belichick is 51-62 in games Brady hasn't started. Plenty of those teams "quit" on him. Hell the whole city of Cleveland quit on him after he went 5-11 in 1995 and threw him out of town along with the team.

LOL. We're talking about TODAY'S Belichick, not 20 years ago Cleveland Belichick. No Pats team has ever quit on Belichick

As far backup QB's go, give me all the teams that you really think have a better 2nd and 3rd QB than Hoyer and Mallett.

Go!

 

[BigSteelThrill]

In regards to the Hines Ward quote about the Patriots jumping routes... it seems that it was all about the wide receivers tipping themselves off in film study. Belichick is well known for his film study and tendency to figure out tells (see the Rams and the way they tipped run/pass depending on how they lined up Marshall Faulk).

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04305/404012.stm

For one, Ward said the receivers no longer tip off plays by the way they line up, something he noticed from that game.

Umm, defensive signals were predominant.It was Polamalu after '04 afccg stating "its like they knew our plays", which was restated by a couple other players.

Except, of course, in the case of the Steelers, the Pats* turned in both offensive and defensive signals (I think the Rams also) and also multiple recordings. Not to mention what wasn't turned in.

That Ward quote is Ward assuming its the explanation for '02, nothing more. He was trying to find an answer for their uncanny knowledge.

This could be the most ignorant post I have read in years. Anyone who really believes the Pats have some kind of James Bond hidden camera spy equipment system going on, must be a bunch of slowtarded window lickers.

Had to go to insults and hyperbole... instead of those stubborn facts, like I posted. Fully expected.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

In regards to the Hines Ward quote about the Patriots jumping routes... it seems that it was all about the wide receivers tipping themselves off in film study. Belichick is well known for his film study and tendency to figure out tells (see the Rams and the way they tipped run/pass depending on how they lined up Marshall Faulk).

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04305/404012.stm

For one, Ward said the receivers no longer tip off plays by the way they line up, something he noticed from that game.

Umm, defensive signals were predominant.It was Polamalu after '04 afccg stating "its like they knew our plays", which was restated by a couple other players.

Except, of course, in the case of the Steelers, the Pats* turned in both offensive and defensive signals (I think the Rams also) and also multiple recordings. Not to mention what wasn't turned in.

That Ward quote is Ward assuming its the explanation for '02, nothing more. He was trying to find an answer for their uncanny knowledge.

This could be the most ignorant post I have read in years. Anyone who really believes the Pats have some kind of James Bond hidden camera spy equipment system going on, must be a bunch of slowtarded window lickers.

Had to go to insults and hyperbole... instead of those stubborn facts, like I posted. Fully expected.

dude, just enjoy your week 8 superbowl win.

this was a pretty good year for you and buffalo fans.

 

[SacramentoBob]

PatsFanCT going down with the ship.

 

[Louisville Slugger]

Patriot haters keep in mind that this team is ascending and is nearly a totally different team than the 16-0 2007 team...Coach Belichick rebuilt this team on the fly and in the process went 14-2, 13-3 and went to one Superbowl already. They went to the Superbowl one year early.

With $22 million under the cap, two first round picks, two second round picks and an easy schedule(on paper) next year the Patriots aren't going anywhere.

Look for the Pat's to sign Brandon Lloyd who will give them the most potent offense in the NFL and add at least one impact player on defense and another cheaper vet to improve that defense.

Like it or not this Patriot off season could set them up for the next three years.

 

[bucsbaby]

Patriot haters keep in mind that this team is ascending and is nearly a totally different team than the 16-0 2007 team...Coach Belichick rebuilt this team on the fly and in the process went 14-2, 13-3 and went to one Superbowl already. They went to the Superbowl one year early.With $22 million under the cap, two first round picks, two second round picks and an easy schedule(on paper) next year the Patriots aren't going anywhere. Look for the Pat's to sign Brandon Lloyd who will give them the most potent offense in the NFL and add at least one impact player on defense and another cheaper vet to improve that defense.Like it or not this Patriot off season could set them up for the next three years.

 

[DawnBTVS]

RB Shane Vereen should be healthy and gives New England their first real "speed" back since maybe Curtis Martin (unless you count Danny Woodhead as a speed back). Also CB Ras-I Dowling will be healthy and was probably expected to be at the very least, the Nickel Back if not even the #2 CB on the team entering the 2011 Season. Finally OL Marcus Cannon got healthy and started seeing playing time late down the stretch.

Give those 3 guys a healthy camp and preseason plus whomever they get in this year's draft/sign/trade for... New England could be surprisingly strong depth wise which excites me a lot.

 

[Frenchy Fuqua]

Here's something that ain't been said - for all BB's greatness, he is an idiot as well.

Something like 24 draft picks on defense over the last 5 years - and that's what he puts on the field? I understand his picks were late but you have to hit on a couple. Plus he consistently trades down - there's no reason to trade down unless you are smarter than everyone else. You trade down cause you can get the player you want later.

Woodhead made some nice receptions - but that guy should not be carrying the ball against an opponent of the Giants caliber - wasted downs.

Why is Edelman the best choice to play DB in the regular season but not in the SB? Because you can get anyway with it against lesser opponents and look cool doing it. But the reality is he doesn't belong on the field on D.

I don't know which to weigh more heavily -- the fact that he can win with a defensive unit like that or the fact that he built that crappy defense to begin with. It occurred to me more than once this year that, should Brady go down, the Pats would look an awful lot like Indianapolis after Peyton's injury.

Completely untrue.First of all, Belichick would never let his team quit on themselves like Indy did.

Second, the Pats have the best 2nd and 3rd string QB's in the league. They will not miss a beat without Brady, as long as BB is there.

That's just flat out ignorant. Brady is a HOFer and Hoyer + Mallett have never started an NFL game.

You also have a short memory. Belichick is 51-62 in games Brady hasn't started. Plenty of those teams "quit" on him. Hell the whole city of Cleveland quit on him after he went 5-11 in 1995 and threw him out of town along with the team.

LOL. We're talking about TODAY'S Belichick, not 20 years ago Cleveland Belichick. No Pats team has ever quit on Belichick

As far backup QB's go, give me all the teams that you really think have a better 2nd and 3rd QB than Hoyer and Mallett.

Go!

Come on, I know you're a Pats homer but what in Hoyer's and Mallett's 43 combined career NFL pass attempts suggests to you that the Pats have the best 2nd and 3rd QBs in the NFL? Or your thickest BS...that the "Pats will not miss a beat without Brady"? Not even the mighty Belichick could make that prediction based on the many hours of practice he's seen (and taped) of Hoyer and Mallett.

 

[thegiants]

A potential team .watching out it.

 

[PatsFanCT]

Here's something that ain't been said - for all BB's greatness, he is an idiot as well.

Something like 24 draft picks on defense over the last 5 years - and that's what he puts on the field? I understand his picks were late but you have to hit on a couple. Plus he consistently trades down - there's no reason to trade down unless you are smarter than everyone else. You trade down cause you can get the player you want later.

Woodhead made some nice receptions - but that guy should not be carrying the ball against an opponent of the Giants caliber - wasted downs.

Why is Edelman the best choice to play DB in the regular season but not in the SB? Because you can get anyway with it against lesser opponents and look cool doing it. But the reality is he doesn't belong on the field on D.

I don't know which to weigh more heavily -- the fact that he can win with a defensive unit like that or the fact that he built that crappy defense to begin with. It occurred to me more than once this year that, should Brady go down, the Pats would look an awful lot like Indianapolis after Peyton's injury.

Completely untrue.First of all, Belichick would never let his team quit on themselves like Indy did.

Second, the Pats have the best 2nd and 3rd string QB's in the league. They will not miss a beat without Brady, as long as BB is there.

That's just flat out ignorant. Brady is a HOFer and Hoyer + Mallett have never started an NFL game.

You also have a short memory. Belichick is 51-62 in games Brady hasn't started. Plenty of those teams "quit" on him. Hell the whole city of Cleveland quit on him after he went 5-11 in 1995 and threw him out of town along with the team.

LOL. We're talking about TODAY'S Belichick, not 20 years ago Cleveland Belichick. No Pats team has ever quit on Belichick

As far backup QB's go, give me all the teams that you really think have a better 2nd and 3rd QB than Hoyer and Mallett.

Go!

Come on, I know you're a Pats homer but what in Hoyer's and Mallett's 43 combined career NFL pass attempts suggests to you that the Pats have the best 2nd and 3rd QBs in the NFL? Or your thickest BS...that the "Pats will not miss a beat without Brady"? Not even the mighty Belichick could make that prediction based on the many hours of practice he's seen (and taped) of Hoyer and Mallett.

Looks like you forgot to name a team.

 

[Bossman]

I think some are forgetting the one year the Belichick run Patriots were without Brady. (after the 1st year with Bledsoe as the starter)

Cassel went 11-5 with the same crappy receivers.

It's a system. Brady happens to be pretty good at it ... but so would others.

Belichick then franchise tagged Cassel and traded him for a 2nd rd pick to KC instead of letting him walk and getting nothing for him. Brilliant.

(not sure where that 51-62 stat came from. Belichick has only had 2 seasons without Brady as the starter in NE as far as I can recall)

... but yeah, Belichick and whoever else is responsible for scouting defensive players in NE, as well as WR's and RB's, has failed pretty hard.

Wilfork, Mayo, Chung are the only names that stand out on D. Done pretty good with O-lineman and TE's though.

If they only hit on 1 out of 4 players drafted, then they should continue trading down and back a year to gain more picks.

 

[krsone21]

A potential team .watching out it.

Are we encrypting our posts now? That's a little paranoid.The yellow ;bird licking far. shovel

I couldnt' stop laughing after reading this.

 

[David Yudkin]

I think some are forgetting the one year the Belichick run Patriots were without Brady. (after the 1st year with Bledsoe as the starter)Cassel went 11-5 with the same crappy receivers.

Cassell had a very easy schedule to work with . . . as well as Welker and Moss (coming off his TD record scoring season.). Not sure that should be classified as "crappy receivers."

It's a system. Brady happens to be pretty good at it ... but so would others.

Cassel led the team to 179 fewer points scored and 5 fewer wins.

Belichick then franchise tagged Cassel and traded him for a 2nd rd pick to KC instead of letting him walk and getting nothing for him.

If Cassel had walked, the Pats would have received a 3rd round compensatory pick instead of trading Cassel and Vrabel for a 2nd rounder.

... but yeah, Belichick and whoever else is responsible for scouting defensive players in NE, as well as WR's and RB's, has failed pretty hard.Wilfork, Mayo, Chung are the only names that stand out on D.

I guess it depends how far you go back. Richard Seymour and Asante Samuel have been pretty good.

If they only hit on 1 out of 4 players drafted, then they should continue trading down and back a year to gain more picks.

What people apparently don't seem to understand is that if the Pats DIDN'T trade down, they would have drafted the same players they drafted several picks later. They evaluate players differently than other teams and draft based on their list. So instead of compiling extra picks, they would have had the same guys without the extra picks.If people want to point to some bad picks or a less than stellar track record drafting, I woun't stop them. However, I think the Pats draft record over the past 10-12 years is in the top third of the league, even with quite a few misses. Most teams miss more than they hit on draft picks.

 

[JohnnyU]

If people want to point to some bad picks or a less than stellar track record drafting, I woun't stop them. However, I think the Pats draft record over the past 10-12 years is in the top third of the league, even with quite a few misses. Most teams miss more than they hit on draft picks.

Considering they've had a million draft picks their drafting hasn't been that good. If they were smart they would have packaged some of those picks last year to move up and grab an impact player on defense instead of moving down again and collecting more picks. I bet they do the same thing again this year. At some point you should use the picks you've collected wisely.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

RB Shane Vereen should be healthy and gives New England their first real "speed" back since maybe Curtis Martin (unless you count Danny Woodhead as a speed back). Also CB Ras-I Dowling will be healthy and was probably expected to be at the very least, the Nickel Back if not even the #2 CB on the team entering the 2011 Season. Finally OL Marcus Cannon got healthy and started seeing playing time late down the stretch.Give those 3 guys a healthy camp and preseason plus whomever they get in this year's draft/sign/trade for... New England could be surprisingly strong depth wise which excites me a lot.

 

[The Jerk]

I think some are forgetting the one year the Belichick run Patriots were without Brady. (after the 1st year with Bledsoe as the starter)

Cassel went 11-5 with the same crappy receivers.

It's a system. Brady happens to be pretty good at it ... but so would others.

Belichick then franchise tagged Cassel and traded him for a 2nd rd pick to KC instead of letting him walk and getting nothing for him. Brilliant.

(not sure where that 51-62 stat came from. Belichick has only had 2 seasons without Brady as the starter in NE as far as I can recall)

... but yeah, Belichick and whoever else is responsible for scouting defensive players in NE, as well as WR's and RB's, has failed pretty hard.

Wilfork, Mayo, Chung are the only names that stand out on D. Done pretty good with O-lineman and TE's though.

If they only hit on 1 out of 4 players drafted, then they should continue trading down and back a year to gain more picks.

From pro-football-reference... Bill Belichick NFL coaching record1991-1995, Cleveland: 36-44 regular season, 1-1 in 1994 playoffs

2000-2001, New England (Bledsoe starting): 5-13

2008, New England (Cassel starting): 10-5

Add that all together and you get 51 wins and 62 losses in the regular season, plus 1-1 in playoff games.

It's conjecture that Belichick would have been a washout in New England if Brady had not ended up there. In my opinion there was more talent in New England in 2000 than he ever had in Cleveland. The Patriots were 38-26 the four years prior to hiring Belichick, with a Super Bowl appearance in 1996 and two division championships and a wild card in those four seasons. The Browns were 3-13 in 1990, and 32-30-1 in the four seasons prior to Belichick (1987 only had 15 games due to a strike.)

Whatever one thinks specifically of Belichick, it's hard to argue that, historically in the NFL, having a Hall of Fame caliber quarterback has often made nearly any coach look pretty good. In many cases, great coaches and great QBs have been a tandem, and it's hard to distinguish which deserves more credit. Would Joe Montana be in the HoF QB without Bill Walsh? Would Bill Walsh be in the HoF without Joe Montana? The same can be said -- and often is -- about Belichick and Brady. Of course, the difference is that in Belichick's case, he actually has a record separate from Brady that was mediocre at best. Perhaps Walsh would have had similar mediocrity with say, the Lions, had he coached them in the early 1970s. The thing is, we can only guess. With Belichick, we don't need to guess. Of course, we can discuss why BB without TB was unsuccessful, but it's pretty clear to nearly everyone that Brady has made Belichick seem much smarter, at least as a head coach.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

If people want to point to some bad picks or a less than stellar track record drafting, I woun't stop them. However, I think the Pats draft record over the past 10-12 years is in the top third of the league, even with quite a few misses. Most teams miss more than they hit on draft picks.

Considering they've had a million draft picks their drafting hasn't been that good. If they were smart they would have packaged some of those picks last year to move up and grab an impact player on defense instead of moving down again and collecting more picks. I bet they do the same thing again this year. At some point you should use the picks you've collected wisely.

I think the Pats could be the deepest team in the league very soon.QB- Brady won't be there forever. But i'm a huge fan of Mallett and think he could be one of the best QB's of last years draft class. Plus he gets to learn from Brady/BB and throw to Gronk/Hernandez...sign me up.RB- BJGE is solid in his role. Ridley/Vereen are talented RB's that will only get better.WR- Welker/Ocho/Branch are all older. They haven't had success with younger guys here I agree. This is a spot that they need to improve and develop some good young players.TE- Gronk/Hernandez could be the best TE combo ever, plus they're both 22.OL-Mankins, Koppen, Light aren't going to be around forever. Which is why they drafted Vollmer, Solder, Cannon lately.DL-Is long in the tooth with Andre Carter, Wilfork, Warren, Ellis, Anderson(UFA). They could address this a bit.LB-3 solid younger guys in Mayo, Spikes, Cunningham. I like Fletcher as well. Need another edge rusher though.DB-Chung, McCourty are solid(sometimes not great, but they're young). Ras-I-Dowling has really good potential along with a few other DBs.ST-Good K and Punter.Add to that all the draft picks this season and they have lots of young talent everywhere.

 

[JohnnyU]

If people want to point to some bad picks or a less than stellar track record drafting, I woun't stop them. However, I think the Pats draft record over the past 10-12 years is in the top third of the league, even with quite a few misses. Most teams miss more than they hit on draft picks.

Considering they've had a million draft picks their drafting hasn't been that good. If they were smart they would have packaged some of those picks last year to move up and grab an impact player on defense instead of moving down again and collecting more picks. I bet they do the same thing again this year. At some point you should use the picks you've collected wisely.

I think the Pats could be the deepest team in the league very soon.QB- Brady won't be there forever. But i'm a huge fan of Mallett and think he could be one of the best QB's of last years draft class. Plus he gets to learn from Brady/BB and throw to Gronk/Hernandez...sign me up.RB- BJGE is solid in his role. Ridley/Vereen are talented RB's that will only get better.WR- Welker/Ocho/Branch are all older. They haven't had success with younger guys here I agree. This is a spot that they need to improve and develop some good young players.TE- Gronk/Hernandez could be the best TE combo ever, plus they're both 22.OL-Mankins, Koppen, Light aren't going to be around forever. Which is why they drafted Vollmer, Solder, Cannon lately.DL-Is long in the tooth with Andre Carter, Wilfork, Warren, Ellis, Anderson(UFA). They could address this a bit.LB-3 solid younger guys in Mayo, Spikes, Cunningham. I like Fletcher as well. Need another edge rusher though.DB-Chung, McCourty are solid(sometimes not great, but they're young). Ras-I-Dowling has really good potential along with a few other DBs.ST-Good K and Punter.Add to that all the draft picks this season and they have lots of young talent everywhere.

Their defense is bad and their WRs are worse. I can already start to see the ***** in the Brady armour too. You mention their RBs, well, they aren't that great either. BJGE will be somewhere else (not that he's a world beater any way) and I feel they wasted draft picks on Vereen and Ridley. Both were taken too early when compared to their talent. NE is far from being a decent team defensively and some key components on offense are getting old.

 

[David Yudkin]

If people want to point to some bad picks or a less than stellar track record drafting, I woun't stop them. However, I think the Pats draft record over the past 10-12 years is in the top third of the league, even with quite a few misses. Most teams miss more than they hit on draft picks.

Considering they've had a million draft picks their drafting hasn't been that good. If they were smart they would have packaged some of those picks last year to move up and grab an impact player on defense instead of moving down again and collecting more picks. I bet they do the same thing again this year. At some point you should use the picks you've collected wisely.

People think that "trading up" is like some guarantee of landing a future HOFer. High picks bust plenty of times (if not most of the time) too. If the Pats moved into the Top 10 and took Rolando McLain, Tyson Alaalu, Vernon Gholston, Johnathan Sullivan, Tyson Jackson, Aaron Curry, etc. from the past few years they would have been worse than they have been recently on defense.Say what you want about the Patrs draft record, but since 2000, they have drafted the most players selected to the Pro Bowl than any team in the league. Since I'm sure people are interested how that stacks up compared to everyone else . . .NEP 14SDC 13PIT 12BAL 11GBP 11NYJ 11NOS 11NYG 10ARI 10CHI 10SFO 9IND 9DAL 9PHI 9TEN 9SEA 8CIN 8BUF 8CAR 8KCC 8DEN 7HOU 7MIN 7ATL 6WAS 6JAX 6CLE 5DET 4MIA 4OAK 4STL 1TBB 1Note that the team that drafted a player gets the credit here, not necessarily the team that the player played for when he was a Pro Bowler.

 

[JohnnyU]

Note that the team that drafted a player gets the credit here, not necessarily the team that the player played for when he was a Pro Bowler.

It shouldn't count unless they have that player when they're a pro bowler, because not having them could indicate a mistake was made getting rid of them, or losing them.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

If people want to point to some bad picks or a less than stellar track record drafting, I woun't stop them. However, I think the Pats draft record over the past 10-12 years is in the top third of the league, even with quite a few misses. Most teams miss more than they hit on draft picks.

Considering they've had a million draft picks their drafting hasn't been that good. If they were smart they would have packaged some of those picks last year to move up and grab an impact player on defense instead of moving down again and collecting more picks. I bet they do the same thing again this year. At some point you should use the picks you've collected wisely.

I think the Pats could be the deepest team in the league very soon.QB- Brady won't be there forever. But i'm a huge fan of Mallett and think he could be one of the best QB's of last years draft class. Plus he gets to learn from Brady/BB and throw to Gronk/Hernandez...sign me up.RB- BJGE is solid in his role. Ridley/Vereen are talented RB's that will only get better.WR- Welker/Ocho/Branch are all older. They haven't had success with younger guys here I agree. This is a spot that they need to improve and develop some good young players.TE- Gronk/Hernandez could be the best TE combo ever, plus they're both 22.OL-Mankins, Koppen, Light aren't going to be around forever. Which is why they drafted Vollmer, Solder, Cannon lately.DL-Is long in the tooth with Andre Carter, Wilfork, Warren, Ellis, Anderson(UFA). They could address this a bit.LB-3 solid younger guys in Mayo, Spikes, Cunningham. I like Fletcher as well. Need another edge rusher though.DB-Chung, McCourty are solid(sometimes not great, but they're young). Ras-I-Dowling has really good potential along with a few other DBs.ST-Good K and Punter.Add to that all the draft picks this season and they have lots of young talent everywhere.

Their defense is bad and their WRs are worse. I can already start to see the ***** in the Brady armour too. You mention their RBs, well, they aren't that great either. BJGE will be somewhere else (not that he's a world beater any way) and I feel they wasted draft picks on Vereen and Ridley. Both were taken too early when compared to their talent. NE is far from being a decent team defensively and some key components on offense are getting old.

Perhaps, I just think it's too early to give up on all those highly drafted guys they have(ridley/Vereen/ras-i-dowling). McCourty had a great rookie year and a less than stellar sophomore campaign as well.

 

[David Yudkin]

Note that the team that drafted a player gets the credit here, not necessarily the team that the player played for when he was a Pro Bowler.

It shouldn't count unless they have that player when they're a pro bowler, because not having them could indicate a mistake was made getting rid of them, or losing them.

With regard to how things pertain to this thread, the Pats had all but one of their Pro Bowl selections under their watch (the exception being Matt Cassel). They also had numerous others that they did not draft become Pro Bowl selections while playing for NE (not accounted for here), but that has nothing to do with their draft record.

 

[PatsFanCT]

If people want to point to some bad picks or a less than stellar track record drafting, I woun't stop them. However, I think the Pats draft record over the past 10-12 years is in the top third of the league, even with quite a few misses. Most teams miss more than they hit on draft picks.

Considering they've had a million draft picks their drafting hasn't been that good. If they were smart they would have packaged some of those picks last year to move up and grab an impact player on defense instead of moving down again and collecting more picks. I bet they do the same thing again this year. At some point you should use the picks you've collected wisely.

I think the Pats could be the deepest team in the league very soon.QB- Brady won't be there forever. But i'm a huge fan of Mallett and think he could be one of the best QB's of last years draft class. Plus he gets to learn from Brady/BB and throw to Gronk/Hernandez...sign me up.RB- BJGE is solid in his role. Ridley/Vereen are talented RB's that will only get better.WR- Welker/Ocho/Branch are all older. They haven't had success with younger guys here I agree. This is a spot that they need to improve and develop some good young players.TE- Gronk/Hernandez could be the best TE combo ever, plus they're both 22.OL-Mankins, Koppen, Light aren't going to be around forever. Which is why they drafted Vollmer, Solder, Cannon lately.DL-Is long in the tooth with Andre Carter, Wilfork, Warren, Ellis, Anderson(UFA). They could address this a bit.LB-3 solid younger guys in Mayo, Spikes, Cunningham. I like Fletcher as well. Need another edge rusher though.DB-Chung, McCourty are solid(sometimes not great, but they're young). Ras-I-Dowling has really good potential along with a few other DBs.ST-Good K and Punter.Add to that all the draft picks this season and they have lots of young talent everywhere.

Their defense is bad and their WRs are worse. I can already start to see the ***** in the Brady armour too. You mention their RBs, well, they aren't that great either. BJGE will be somewhere else (not that he's a world beater any way) and I feel they wasted draft picks on Vereen and Ridley. Both were taken too early when compared to their talent. NE is far from being a decent team defensively and some key components on offense are getting old.

Perhaps, I just think it's too early to give up on all those highly drafted guys they have(ridley/Vereen/ras-i-dowling). McCourty had a great rookie year and a less than stellar sophomore campaign as well.

The Pats pass rush is the biggest problem on Defense. McCourty and the rest of the DB's had less than stellar years and got most of the blame for their 31st ranked defense because the Pats couldn't get any pressure on the QB. No DB in the league can cover a receiver as long as the Pats DB's were asked to.If the Pats can land a good pass rusher or two via the draft or free agency, they will look like a completely different team next year.

 

[Raider Nation]

Once again the Red Sea parts for the chosen ones, and they will likely host the AFC Championship game.Thanks John Fox!

 

[The Ref]

Outside of 1985, the Patriots were an NFL wasteland like the Browns until Parcells was hired.

Guess you weren't born in 1976. The Patriots would have another super bowl if the dirty hass Raiders didn't steal the AFC Championship game. Made the Tuck rule call look like the greatest call of all time.

During the 1976 playoff between the Oakland Raiders and the New England Patriots, Dreith called a roughing-the-passer penalty on Patriots tackle Ray "Sugar Bear" Hamilton, nullifying a third down incompletion and giving the Raiders an automatic first down deep in New England territory, which led to Oakland's game-winning touchdown with less than a minute left. Replays showed there was no illegal contact. Partially because of the controversy, Dreith was not assigned to work any games involving the Patriots until 1987.

 

[Raider Nation]

Outside of 1985, the Patriots were an NFL wasteland like the Browns until Parcells was hired.

Guess you weren't born in 1976. The Patriots would have another super bowl if the dirty hass Raiders didn't steal the AFC Championship game. Made the Tuck rule call look like the greatest call of all time.

During the 1976 playoff between the Oakland Raiders and the New England Patriots, Dreith called a roughing-the-passer penalty on Patriots tackle Ray "Sugar Bear" Hamilton, nullifying a third down incompletion and giving the Raiders an automatic first down deep in New England territory, which led to Oakland's game-winning touchdown with less than a minute left. Replays showed there was no illegal contact. Partially because of the controversy, Dreith was not assigned to work any games involving the Patriots until 1987.

And the Tuck Rule was payback, and then some.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

Once again the Red Sea parts for the chosen ones, and they will likely host the AFC Championship game.Thanks John Fox!

baltimore's not an easy out

 

[Raider Nation]

Once again the Red Sea parts for the chosen ones, and they will likely host the AFC Championship game.Thanks John Fox!

baltimore's not an easy out

No, and they owe them one from last year. Friggin Lee Evans... COVER UP THE BALL!!!But Belichick won't gift-wrap wins like Fox does.

 

[General Tso]

Once again the Red Sea parts for the chosen ones, and they will likely host the AFC Championship game.Thanks John Fox!

LOL.. They haven't even played a playoff game yet and people are still nullifying their success. I guess there should be an asterisk if they win the Superbowl because they didn't have to face Denver? Not our fault Manning spit the bit today. I wanted to see a Pats / Denver AFC Championship Game, as did most people in these parts.

 

[Chazzhawk]

Once again the Red Sea parts for the chosen ones, and they will likely host the AFC Championship game.Thanks John Fox!

LOL.. They haven't even played a playoff game yet and people are still nullifying their success. I guess there should be an asterisk if they win the Superbowl because they didn't have to face Denver? Not our fault Manning spit the bit today. I wanted to see a Pats / Denver AFC Championship Game, as did most people in these parts.

I agree with you there, I was happy and sad today when the Ravens won. As a Pats fan, I love watching Peyton Manning lose, but I like it so much more when the Patriots do it and it would have been a great game.

 

[SacramentoBob]

Not a whole lot really.

 

[AB in DC]

May be nearing the end of an era, but what an era. Has any other team made the conference championship game seven times in twelve years?

 

[GoFishTN]

May be nearing the end of an era, but what an era. Has any other team made the conference championship game seven times in twelve years?

SF was in the NFC Championship nine times from 84-98.

 

[rick6668]

May be nearing the end of an era, but what an era. Has any other team made the conference championship game seven times in twelve years?

Raiders made the conference championship game in 67,68,69,70,73,74,75,76,77.That's 9 times in 11 years.Would have been 10 out of 11 if not for the Immaculate Reception.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Patriots = the Lance Armstrongs of the NFL.

 

[drummer]

Vote for tim's next thread:a) Jessica Alba is somewhat fetching.b) I was in Alaska once -- it was cold.c) Has anyone noticed gas prices are rising?

 

[Raider Nation]

Vote for tim's next thread:a) Jessica Alba is somewhat fetching.b) I was in Alaska once -- it was cold.c) Has anyone noticed gas prices are rising?

I didn't punch out yet tonight, pal. Leave the BUMPS to me!

 

[Tanner9919]

Patriots = the Lance Armstrongs of the NFL.

harsh,but true!

do they still have the cheesy 16-0 banners flying at Gillette..?

BB declining the post game interview, and listening to Shannon Sharpe call him out on it, was priceless...