What is the Difference Between Injury Prone (1 Viewer)

[Bob Magaw]

i was going to post something in foster thread but thought it deserved a separate thread, as it could lead to a general discussion about concept of being injury prone or suffering from bad luck IN GENERAL...

taking a cue from foster, he reminds me a little of retired (ominous) MIN RB robert smith... he also had a rep for being injury prone, possibly rightly, & would miss time nearly every season (not necessarily a lot of games every season)... UNTIL, he got a break (good kind, figuratively) & made it through a season unscathed (possibly a few)... he represented good value & helped some teams, where others that maybe drafted him previous season/s... gave up on him right as he would have helped them, ironically... you don't want to repeatedly back wrong pony in stock market, but sometimes people get burned trying to "time the market"...

of course it is human nature if player gets hurt 10 seasons in a row, to strongly suspect it might happen again... further, i think once a player has rep for getting hurt a lot ("fragile" fred taylor, donte stallworth prior to last season, bennie joppru, etc), there is a tendency to think they are more likely to get hurt sooner than later, & sort of write them off from the beginning, & want no part of them on their teams... not sure if that is the case (that injury prone player more likely to get hurt sooner than later in season?)...

with foster, in his rookie year, he hurt knee & missed entire season... this leads to one question... others have had knee injuries... edge, mcgahee, deuce that are still valued, so a knee injury isn't of itself a deal breaker...

this also leads to another question... if a defensive player launches themselves at you & explode into your knee like mcgahee, does that mean you had weak knee & are "injury prone"... or is it more likely that ANYBODY would have had their knee blown up, just due to physics & anatomy, & there is no stigma of lack of toughness or durability attached?

lets say for arguments sake that isn't the case... how about foster's most recent three seasons?

he played 14 games in 2003

just 4 games in 2004

15 games in 2005 (not counting playoff, i think... otherwise 17?)

in 2004 i think he broke a collarbone (?)... & last year, he broke his leg in playoff game... & we can't LEAVE out rookie knee injury (it happened), but just speaking to last three seasons, in one of them, he missed 3/4 of season... but in other two, he missed just a few games... it should also be pointed out that he didn't exactly have the biggest workload in those seasons in which he made it through the majority (likely contributing factor in his longevity)... about 100 carries second season & closer to 200 last... due to presence of stephen davis... so if he can go 250-275-300 carries, he will be in uncharted territory...

so another question i have... do we know enough in general about players that have had multiple injuries... that they are more likely to get hurt again... how much more he is likely (?)... whether he is infact more likely to get hurt sooner (2004) or later (2003 & 2005)?

this specific question could open up into thread partly about identifying injury prone players currently, in past...

another question about injuries, whether players are injury prone or have bad luck... when foster broke his collar bone, do we think he has a weak collar bone, or ANYBODY would have broken it if hit in that way, that hard, in that place, etc...

same with leg injury... like when steve smith broke his leg (GB?) in game one of 2004 season, would nearly anybody suffer that injury if bent & torqued in some way (same with theismann, napoleon, mccollum, bryant young, tim krumrie)...

this might point to another general discussion that could branch from this one... general consensus that it is bad to run upright... is foster thought to be upright runner, which would be case of identifiable correlation between running style & idea of being injury prone...

another term that i think is thought to make you more susceptible to injury is being long strider (robert smith may have been, & maybe chris brown, too, who is or was definitely upright in style)... guys like emmit had choppier, smaller steps... when those things were pumping like pistons, maybe not as much time where legs are in contact with ground & could get trapped in bad position where leg could be fallen on & broken...

last point i had in mind when talking in general about injury susceptibility & varaince among players... some for identifiable reasons of style... marcus allen had both great field awareness & body control, so he rarely got into trouble, & would usually see the big hit coming & move his body at last second to not have to absorb crushing blow, it would just glance off (gretzky was like this in hockey context)...

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

this also leads to another question... if a defensive player launches themselves at you & explode into your knee like mcgahee, does that mean you had weak knee & are "injury prone"... or is it more likely that ANYBODY would have had their knee blown up, just due to physics & anatomy, & there is no stigma of lack of toughness or durability attached?

Good article on some of this stuff here: Everybody is an Injury Risk.

 

[SSOG]

I think the difference between "Injury Prone" and "unlucky" has to do with the type of injury.

For instance, Denver had a TE on its roster named Wesley Duke. Wesley Duke tore the ACL in his left knee. Three times. And then injured his left knee again this offseason. That is INJURY PRONE- i.e. there is a strong body of evidence to suggest that Wesley Duke has a natural proclivity for injuring his left knee.

For a counter-example, I present Rex Grossman. In 2004, he suffered a season-ending knee injury. In 2005, he suffered a season mostly-ending broken ankle. The two injuries were entirely unrelated. He has no extensive injury history in college. He was praised coming out of his college for his toughness, and even compared to Favre in that regard. The broken ankle was an entirely fluky sort of thing where a 300+ lb. man rolled over it. It was a situation where ANYONE'S ankle would have broken, so I label Grossman as UNLUCKY rather than INJURY PRONE.

A sneaky type of injury to keep an eye out for is the CASCADE injury. This is the term for an injury that results from overcompensating for another injury. For instance, let's say that you sprain your right ankle. As a result, you tend to favor that ankle while running. This places extra strain on your left leg. If you then strain your left hamstring, it's possible that this was a CASCADE injury- resulting from an overcorrection in your gait as a result of your sprained right ankle. As such, a player can receive multiple injuries in a short time, but they're all related, and once the player is fully healthy, he's no more likely to get injured again than he was in the first place.

Basically, I look at tears, pulls, strains, sprains, contusions, etc, as a "bad" injury, when it comes to "injury prone". These are the types of injuries that some people just tend to have a naturally higher predisposition for, whether because of DNA or playing style. On the other hand, I look at things like broken bones as "good" injuries, because they're essentially freak accidents that could have happened to anyone. Breaking your arm once usually doesn't mean you're more likely to break it again than any other guy (unless it heals poorly, but that's another discussion entirely).

 

[WisWolvrns]

I think the difference between "Injury Prone" and "unlucky" has to do with the type of injury.

The above post is spot on in my believe too. Very nicely done!

 

[Bob_Magaw]

i'll have to check out that link, thanx maurile...

good post SSOG.

reminds me i read repeated ankle sprains can become chronic & are bad sign... as ligaments & tendons are repeatedly overstretched, they can lose resiliency, making recurring sprains more likely... they become easier & easier to get, & they can happen with increasing severity & frequency...

concussions are a bad injury in they can have this same dynamic... they take a cumulative toll (for different reason, of course)... interestingly, with foster having broken collarbone & leg & they are unrelated, this would be consistent to what you categorize (rightly i think) better injuries that don't necessarily point to the recurring variety...

 

[SSOG]

i'll have to check out that link, thanx maurile...

good post SSOG.

reminds me i read repeated ankle sprains can become chronic & are bad sign... as ligaments & tendons are repeatedly overstretched, they can lose resiliency, making recurring sprains more likely... they become easier & easier to get, & they can happen with increasing severity & frequency...

concussions are a bad injury in they can have this same dynamic... they take a cumulative toll (for different reason, of course)... interestingly, with foster having broken collarbone & leg & they are unrelated, this would be consistent to what you categorize (rightly i think) better injuries that don't necessarily point to the recurring variety...

There's a guy named Will Carroll who does in-depth injury analysis for www.footballoutsiders.com. He goes into depth several times about both Cascade injuries, as well as the way that some players just seem predisposed to get certain injuries (he calls it a "tissue issue"), and he also discusses the importance of proprioception - the ability to sense one's body's location in space - and how it somehow hinders athletes who have physically come 100% back from an injury but still seem to be struggling for some reason. Really interesting stuff- most of what I know about injuries came from there.You can read his archives here, if you're so inclined.

 

[LHUCKS]

Every situation/player is unique. Some are lucky, some are injury prone some have playing styles that are less susceptible to injury and some guys are just made of iron.

I evaluate each player based on what I see and read. What I don't do is throw my hands up in the air and say "everybody is an injury risk."

 

[Ozymandias]

I would say the difference is twice.

One injury could happen to anybody. Two injuries is bad luck. Three injuries is injury prone.

 

[JohnnyU]

Every situation/player is unique. Some are lucky, some are injury prone some have playing styles that are less susceptible to injury and some guys are just made of iron.

I evaluate each player based on what I see and read. What I don't do is throw my hands up in the air and say "everybody is an injury risk."

I thought your only criteria was if a player runs upright

 

[Traders2001]

I think the difference between "Injury Prone" and "unlucky" has to do with the type of injury.

For instance, Denver had a TE on its roster named Wesley Duke. Wesley Duke tore the ACL in his left knee. Three times. And then injured his left knee again this offseason. That is INJURY PRONE- i.e. there is a strong body of evidence to suggest that Wesley Duke has a natural proclivity for injuring his left knee.

For a counter-example, I present Rex Grossman. In 2004, he suffered a season-ending knee injury. In 2005, he suffered a season mostly-ending broken ankle. The two injuries were entirely unrelated. He has no extensive injury history in college. He was praised coming out of his college for his toughness, and even compared to Favre in that regard. The broken ankle was an entirely fluky sort of thing where a 300+ lb. man rolled over it. It was a situation where ANYONE'S ankle would have broken, so I label Grossman as UNLUCKY rather than INJURY PRONE.

A sneaky type of injury to keep an eye out for is the CASCADE injury. This is the term for an injury that results from overcompensating for another injury. For instance, let's say that you sprain your right ankle. As a result, you tend to favor that ankle while running. This places extra strain on your left leg. If you then strain your left hamstring, it's possible that this was a CASCADE injury- resulting from an overcorrection in your gait as a result of your sprained right ankle. As such, a player can receive multiple injuries in a short time, but they're all related, and once the player is fully healthy, he's no more likely to get injured again than he was in the first place.

Basically, I look at tears, pulls, strains, sprains, contusions, etc, as a "bad" injury, when it comes to "injury prone". These are the types of injuries that some people just tend to have a naturally higher predisposition for, whether because of DNA or playing style. On the other hand, I look at things like broken bones as "good" injuries, because they're essentially freak accidents that could have happened to anyone. Breaking your arm once usually doesn't mean you're more likely to break it again than any other guy (unless it heals poorly, but that's another discussion entirely).

So Lee Suggs is nt injury prone it s just badluck i guess.Aniway that is what i have been saying all along .