What kind of WINE did you drink last night? (1 Viewer)

[Jules Winnfield]

Since we have started talking about the Alexander Valley, are any of you familiar with the Alexander Valley Vineyards (AVV)? I love their merlot, and they also make a nice Gewurz, Cab, Syrah, & Pinot. I highly recommend checking them out! They label is boring, which means most of America doesn't drink their stuff, but I find them to be exceptional value wines ($10-$20).

AVV Wines

i like their stuff quite a bit.i tried a darioush syrah tonight, it was really quite good. deep rich wine with good fruit. & i'd be interested to know what other grapes they put in it, i'm guessing a merlot or a cab franc because it had a real nice velvety quality unusual in a syrah.

I beleive that the Syrah is 100% Syrah. I don't think it is a blend.

 

[Jules Winnfield]

just stashed 3 bottles of 03 icoseles. got them tonight for 36 bones

Each? That's a hell of a great price on those.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

Since we have started talking about the Alexander Valley, are any of you familiar with the Alexander Valley Vineyards (AVV)?  I love their merlot, and they also make a nice Gewurz, Cab, Syrah, & Pinot.  I highly recommend checking them out!  They label is boring, which means most of America doesn't drink their stuff, but I find them to be exceptional value wines ($10-$20).

AVV Wines

i like their stuff quite a bit.i tried a darioush syrah tonight, it was really quite good. deep rich wine with good fruit. & i'd be interested to know what other grapes they put in it, i'm guessing a merlot or a cab franc because it had a real nice velvety quality unusual in a syrah.

I beleive that the Syrah is 100% Syrah. I don't think it is a blend.

i'm not sure. it just had a silkyness to it that seemed out of place in a napa syrah.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

just stashed 3 bottles of 03 icoseles.  got them tonight for 36 bones

Each? That's a hell of a great price on those.

restaurant cost. snuck a case through on the invoice for $$, can't do it all the time but it's fun when we do. hopefully, i'll be getting a 3 pack of 01 halo next month at $106/each.i'm also negotiating with a rep to buy some 05 bordeaux futures, first growths, as an investment. they're all sceaming from the hilltops about how freaking great 05 is going to be. i've never bought futures before & don't know the best way to go about it. if i get a break through the rep similar to what i get now it seems like a no brainer.

what do you think of this idea jules?

 

[matuski]

We went to a family Christmas, and brought a bottle, nothing good, but a drinkable bottle of red.  My aunt comes over "oh, you guys like wine?  Wonderful!  I love wine!"  So, I pour her a glass, we go out in the living room and start chatting - when the hostess comes by, my aunt asks the hostess - "Excuse me, could I get an ice cube for my wine?  It's room temperature." 

Yeah, that's what she said. But what she meant was "That cheap ******* has over 100 bottles in his wine cellar but he brings this freakin' grape juice and tries to pass it off as wine! Maybe if I water it down a little I'll at least be able to swallow it."

It is sad for me to watch morons criticize another persons tastes.If that is the way someone likes their wine, that is how they should drink it.

Being in the industry I hear that wine-snob crap all the time and it drives me nuts.

If putting ice in wine makes it so more people can enjoy it, I say go for it.

 

[Ibis81]

Last nights selection was:

Begali Amarone 2000

 

[matuski]

Last nights selection was:

Begali Amarone 2000

Try Bertani, the benchmark amarone... so good.

 

[Ibis81]

Last nights selection was:

Begali Amarone 2000

Try Bertani, the benchmark amarone... so good.

I actually have one of theirs, a '98, sitting on the rack. I plan on opening it up for my best friends anniversary in a month. I have had it before and it is very nice. The best one I have had is a Masi Mazzano. That wine is top notch and in my mind represents everything an Amarone should be. On the value side I think the Sartori really cannot be beat. It can be found for around ~25. It is a great way to try out a premium wine if you have never had an Amarone before.

 

[Boston]

Didn't read all the previous posts so sorry for any duplicates.

I sell wine for a living...and here are some awesome value wines:

Pinot Noir, Gallo Family Vineyards (Sonoma County)-Don't let the name scare you the juice is as good as you get for the dollar.

Chianti, DaVinci (Italy)-A smooth chianti that's not rough like a lot of others.

Cabernet Sauvignon, Sebastiani (Sonoma County)-Everything Sebastiani does is first rate.

Merlot, Sebastiani (Sonoma County)-See above.

Pinot Noir, Frei Brothers (Russian River Valley)-Like Sebastiani all Frei Brothers products are first rate. This is my personal favorite from the line.

Chardonnay, Artesa (Carneros)-More of a boutique winery but they produce outstanding wines. May not be as easy to find.

Pinot Grigio, Maso Canali (Italy)-The best Pinot Grigio I have ever tasted. Blows the doors off of Santa Margaherita and is far less expensive.

Sauvignon Blanc, Whitehaven (New Zealand)-New Zealand SBs are usually on the money and this is no exception.

Pinot Noir, MacMurray Ranch (Sonoma Coast)-From Fred MacMurray's old land this one is automatic.

Pinot Gris, MacMurray Ranch (Russian River Valley)-A white wine even red wine guys like.

Riesling, Wente (Monterey)-If you like sweeter Rieslings you won't be dissapointed.

Shiraz, McWilliam's Hanwood (Australia)-Good bang for the buck. Smooth with not much bite. If you're more wine advanced this probably isn't for you.

Shiraz, Mt.Langi "Billi Billi" (Australia-Just a solid, high quality wine.

Cabernet, Raimat (Spain)-A nice wine from an up and coming wine region. It's under the Codorniu umbrella so it's not that difficult to find.

Zinfandel, Dasche Cellars (Dry Creek Valley)-Not easy to find but a winner if you do.

If you're looking for something good that is cheap try something from the Barefoot Cellars line. Not expensive at all. If you're a wine aficionado and looking for some real deal wines try Clarendon Hills. Absolutely amazing stuff...but not cheap at all. Also, any Gallo Single Vineyard wine is as good a wine as you can find for the dollar. They price them lower than the quality so the people who are scared by the Gallo name will take a chance on them.

 

[Genedoc]

We went to a family Christmas, and brought a bottle, nothing good, but a drinkable bottle of red.  My aunt comes over "oh, you guys like wine?  Wonderful!  I love wine!"  So, I pour her a glass, we go out in the living room and start chatting - when the hostess comes by, my aunt asks the hostess - "Excuse me, could I get an ice cube for my wine?  It's room temperature." 

Yeah, that's what she said. But what she meant was "That cheap ******* has over 100 bottles in his wine cellar but he brings this freakin' grape juice and tries to pass it off as wine! Maybe if I water it down a little I'll at least be able to swallow it."

It is sad for me to watch morons criticize another persons tastes.If that is the way someone likes their wine, that is how they should drink it.

Being in the industry I hear that wine-snob crap all the time and it drives me nuts.

If putting ice in wine makes it so more people can enjoy it, I say go for it.

Do you feel the same way about ketchup on a New York Strip?Getting a Filet Mignon well done?

Deep frying Lobster Tails?

In general I agree with you, but there is rubicon out there for everything.

 

[matuski]

Didn't read all the previous posts so sorry for any duplicates.

I sell wine for a living...and here are some awesome value wines:

Pinot Noir, Gallo Family Vineyards (Sonoma County)-Don't let the name scare you the juice is as good as you get for the dollar.

Chianti, DaVinci (Italy)-A smooth chianti that's not rough like a lot of others.

Cabernet Sauvignon, Sebastiani (Sonoma County)-Everything Sebastiani does is first rate.

Merlot, Sebastiani (Sonoma County)-See above.

Pinot Noir, Frei Brothers (Russian River Valley)-Like Sebastiani all Frei Brothers products are first rate.  This is my personal favorite from the line.

Chardonnay, Artesa (Carneros)-More of a boutique winery but they produce outstanding wines.  May not be as easy to find.

Pinot Grigio, Maso Canali (Italy)-The best Pinot Grigio I have ever tasted.  Blows the doors off of Santa Margaherita and is far less expensive.

Sauvignon Blanc, Whitehaven (New Zealand)-New Zealand SBs are usually on the money and this is no exception.

Pinot Noir, MacMurray Ranch (Sonoma Coast)-From Fred MacMurray's old land this one is automatic.

Pinot Gris, MacMurray Ranch (Russian River Valley)-A white wine even red wine guys like.

Riesling, Wente (Monterey)-If you like sweeter Rieslings you won't be dissapointed.

Shiraz, McWilliam's Hanwood (Australia)-Good bang for the buck.  Smooth with not much bite.  If you're more wine advanced this probably isn't for you.

Shiraz, Mt.Langi "Billi Billi" (Australia-Just a solid, high quality wine.

Cabernet, Raimat (Spain)-A nice wine from an up and coming wine region.  It's under the Codorniu umbrella so it's not that difficult to find. 

Zinfandel, Dasche Cellars (Dry Creek Valley)-Not easy to find but a winner if you do.

If you're looking for something good that is cheap try something from the Barefoot Cellars line.  Not expensive at all.  If you're a wine aficionado and looking for some real deal wines try Clarendon Hills.  Absolutely amazing stuff...but not cheap at all.  Also, any Gallo Single Vineyard wine is as good a wine as you can find for the dollar.  They price them lower than the quality so the people who are scared by the Gallo name will take a chance on them.

1) Gallo has destroyed Barefoot IMO (I worked for the original Barefoot that Gallo bought). The juice is not the same as what built the brand.** Of course sales wise this is not the case as Gallo's National network in chains is far superior to what we were able to do ourselves. Although this is also further evidence of the quality.. no way we could produce that much from our sources.

2) I can agree that Gallo makes some good wines... but 90% of your suggestions are Gallo. May I ask if you have an interest in promoting Gallo? Work for a distributor that sells Gallo?

Gallo Family Vineyards - the Gallo Sonoma line is dying sales so they have renamed it.

DaVinci - Gallo... and holy crap is it over-priced for the quality level.

MacMurray - Gallo.. good stuff

Whitehaven - Gallo... OK, but better out there by far

Maso Canalli - Gallo.. no. I'll even still put Santa Margherita over this (not a good thing)

Frei Bros - Gallo.. hit or miss depending on varietal

McWilliams - Gallo.. not bad, but again not in the same realm as Penfolds etc.

Way to be subtle.

edit - don't get me wrong, Gallo hired, trained, promoted me for my first 5 years in the industry. Great company to work for - but this is blatant biased advertising.

also you missed the easiest Gallo wines to recommend - Rancho Zabaco Zins (NOT THE NEW REGULAR VARIETALS..yuck).. just stick to the zins, single vineyards (chiotti) rock.

 

[Boston]

Didn't read all the previous posts so sorry for any duplicates.

I sell wine for a living...and here are some awesome value wines:

Pinot Noir, Gallo Family Vineyards (Sonoma County)-Don't let the name scare you the juice is as good as you get for the dollar.

Chianti, DaVinci (Italy)-A smooth chianti that's not rough like a lot of others.

Cabernet Sauvignon, Sebastiani (Sonoma County)-Everything Sebastiani does is first rate.

Merlot, Sebastiani (Sonoma County)-See above.

Pinot Noir, Frei Brothers (Russian River Valley)-Like Sebastiani all Frei Brothers products are first rate.  This is my personal favorite from the line.

Chardonnay, Artesa (Carneros)-More of a boutique winery but they produce outstanding wines.  May not be as easy to find.

Pinot Grigio, Maso Canali (Italy)-The best Pinot Grigio I have ever tasted.  Blows the doors off of Santa Margaherita and is far less expensive.

Sauvignon Blanc, Whitehaven (New Zealand)-New Zealand SBs are usually on the money and this is no exception.

Pinot Noir, MacMurray Ranch (Sonoma Coast)-From Fred MacMurray's old land this one is automatic.

Pinot Gris, MacMurray Ranch (Russian River Valley)-A white wine even red wine guys like.

Riesling, Wente (Monterey)-If you like sweeter Rieslings you won't be dissapointed.

Shiraz, McWilliam's Hanwood (Australia)-Good bang for the buck.  Smooth with not much bite.  If you're more wine advanced this probably isn't for you.

Shiraz, Mt.Langi "Billi Billi" (Australia-Just a solid, high quality wine.

Cabernet, Raimat (Spain)-A nice wine from an up and coming wine region.  It's under the Codorniu umbrella so it's not that difficult to find. 

Zinfandel, Dasche Cellars (Dry Creek Valley)-Not easy to find but a winner if you do.

If you're looking for something good that is cheap try something from the Barefoot Cellars line.  Not expensive at all.  If you're a wine aficionado and looking for some real deal wines try Clarendon Hills.  Absolutely amazing stuff...but not cheap at all.  Also, any Gallo Single Vineyard wine is as good a wine as you can find for the dollar.  They price them lower than the quality so the people who are scared by the Gallo name will take a chance on them.

1) Gallo has destroyed Barefoot IMO (I worked for the original Barefoot that Gallo bought). The juice is not the same as what built the brand.** Of course sales wise this is not the case as Gallo's National network in chains is far superior to what we were able to do ourselves. Although this is also further evidence of the quality.. no way we could produce that much from our sources.

2) I can agree that Gallo makes some good wines... but 90% of your suggestions are Gallo. May I ask if you have an interest in promoting Gallo? Work for a distributor that sells Gallo?

Gallo Family Vineyards - the Gallo Sonoma line is dying sales so they have renamed it.

DaVinci - Gallo... and holy crap is it over-priced for the quality level.

MacMurray - Gallo.. good stuff

Whitehaven - Gallo... OK, but better out there by far

Maso Canalli - Gallo.. no. I'll even still put Santa Margherita over this (not a good thing)

Frei Bros - Gallo.. hit or miss depending on varietal

McWilliams - Gallo.. not bad, but again not in the same realm as Penfolds etc.

Way to be subtle.

edit - don't get me wrong, Gallo hired, trained, promoted me for my first 5 years in the industry. Great company to work for - but this is blatant biased advertising.

also you missed the easiest Gallo wines to recommend - Rancho Zabaco Zins (NOT THE NEW REGULAR VARIETALS..yuck).. just stick to the zins, single vineyards (chiotti) rock.

Yeah, I come here to advertise. That's what I do with my time.. Why don't you drop the wiseass comments. If you want to have a discussion than fine.My company is a Gallo house (I don't work for Gallo) but we sell a ton of other stuff. The suggestions I make are based on the feedback I get from the consumers whether it's Gallo or not (i.e. the products I know). I could care less if people buy them but I do know the response I have seen in the marketplace. You may not like them which is fine (if you like Santa Margaherita better than Maso than we are definetly going to disagree and Chiotti is one of the more overpriced wines in the Gallo portfolio which why they are phasing it out). Yet, these brands are all doing well for their price range and I have seen actual responses to their quality which is why I recommended them.

 

[Ibis81]

Last nights selection was:

Begali Amarone 2000

Try Bertani, the benchmark amarone... so good.

I actually have one of theirs, a '98, sitting on the rack. I plan on opening it up for my best friends anniversary in a month. I have had it before and it is very nice. The best one I have had is a Masi Mazzano. That wine is top notch and in my mind represents everything an Amarone should be. On the value side I think the Sartori really cannot be beat. It can be found for around ~25. It is a great way to try out a premium wine if you have never had an Amarone before.

Ahem enough of the Lets get back to the

 

[Boston]

We went to a family Christmas, and brought a bottle, nothing good, but a drinkable bottle of red.  My aunt comes over "oh, you guys like wine?  Wonderful!  I love wine!"  So, I pour her a glass, we go out in the living room and start chatting - when the hostess comes by, my aunt asks the hostess - "Excuse me, could I get an ice cube for my wine?  It's room temperature." 

Yeah, that's what she said. But what she meant was "That cheap ******* has over 100 bottles in his wine cellar but he brings this freakin' grape juice and tries to pass it off as wine! Maybe if I water it down a little I'll at least be able to swallow it."

It is sad for me to watch morons criticize another persons tastes.If that is the way someone likes their wine, that is how they should drink it.

Being in the industry I hear that wine-snob crap all the time and it drives me nuts.

If putting ice in wine makes it so more people can enjoy it, I say go for it.

You guys are a ####.When you cool down a wine, you mask most of the subtle flavoring that gives a red wine its character. It's not just a matter of personal preference, it's a matter of actually being able to taste the wine.

If someone likes their red wine cold, they should just buy the cheapest crap they can find because it's going to taste the same anyway.

If I went to the Chicago Chop House and asked for my steak well done, then drenched it in ketchup, it would be a waste of a good steak, even if that's how I liked it, because a cheaper steak would do exactly the same thing. What if I ordered some expensive caviar and mixed it in with a quart of Miracle Whip?

Forgive me for being a bit of a wine snob. I thought I was in the wine thread. You guys should find the deep fried cheese stick thread.

Wines like food. Everyone has their own taste. You may like a $5 burger better than a $30 steak even though the steak is a far higher quality of beef. No two pallates are the same. While in theory you are definetly correct it would also assume everyone has the exact same likes and dislikes which just isn't the case.

 

[Jules Winnfield]

Didn't read all the previous posts so sorry for any duplicates.

I sell wine for a living...and here are some awesome value wines:

Pinot Noir, Gallo Family Vineyards (Sonoma County)-Don't let the name scare you the juice is as good as you get for the dollar.

Chianti, DaVinci (Italy)-A smooth chianti that's not rough like a lot of others.

Cabernet Sauvignon, Sebastiani (Sonoma County)-Everything Sebastiani does is first rate.

Merlot, Sebastiani (Sonoma County)-See above.

Pinot Noir, Frei Brothers (Russian River Valley)-Like Sebastiani all Frei Brothers products are first rate. This is my personal favorite from the line.

Chardonnay, Artesa (Carneros)-More of a boutique winery but they produce outstanding wines. May not be as easy to find.

Pinot Grigio, Maso Canali (Italy)-The best Pinot Grigio I have ever tasted. Blows the doors off of Santa Margaherita and is far less expensive.

Sauvignon Blanc, Whitehaven (New Zealand)-New Zealand SBs are usually on the money and this is no exception.

Pinot Noir, MacMurray Ranch (Sonoma Coast)-From Fred MacMurray's old land this one is automatic.

Pinot Gris, MacMurray Ranch (Russian River Valley)-A white wine even red wine guys like.

Riesling, Wente (Monterey)-If you like sweeter Rieslings you won't be dissapointed.

Shiraz, McWilliam's Hanwood (Australia)-Good bang for the buck. Smooth with not much bite. If you're more wine advanced this probably isn't for you.

Shiraz, Mt.Langi "Billi Billi" (Australia-Just a solid, high quality wine.

Cabernet, Raimat (Spain)-A nice wine from an up and coming wine region. It's under the Codorniu umbrella so it's not that difficult to find.

Zinfandel, Dasche Cellars (Dry Creek Valley)-Not easy to find but a winner if you do.

If you're looking for something good that is cheap try something from the Barefoot Cellars line. Not expensive at all. If you're a wine aficionado and looking for some real deal wines try Clarendon Hills. Absolutely amazing stuff...but not cheap at all. Also, any Gallo Single Vineyard wine is as good a wine as you can find for the dollar. They price them lower than the quality so the people who are scared by the Gallo name will take a chance on them.

1) Gallo has destroyed Barefoot IMO (I worked for the original Barefoot that Gallo bought). The juice is not the same as what built the brand.** Of course sales wise this is not the case as Gallo's National network in chains is far superior to what we were able to do ourselves. Although this is also further evidence of the quality.. no way we could produce that much from our sources.

2) I can agree that Gallo makes some good wines... but 90% of your suggestions are Gallo. May I ask if you have an interest in promoting Gallo? Work for a distributor that sells Gallo?

Gallo Family Vineyards - the Gallo Sonoma line is dying sales so they have renamed it.

DaVinci - Gallo... and holy crap is it over-priced for the quality level.

MacMurray - Gallo.. good stuff

Whitehaven - Gallo... OK, but better out there by far

Maso Canalli - Gallo.. no. I'll even still put Santa Margherita over this (not a good thing)

Frei Bros - Gallo.. hit or miss depending on varietal

McWilliams - Gallo.. not bad, but again not in the same realm as Penfolds etc.

Way to be subtle.

edit - don't get me wrong, Gallo hired, trained, promoted me for my first 5 years in the industry. Great company to work for - but this is blatant biased advertising.

also you missed the easiest Gallo wines to recommend - Rancho Zabaco Zins (NOT THE NEW REGULAR VARIETALS..yuck).. just stick to the zins, single vineyards (chiotti) rock.

This is the best Pinot Grigio I have had. I like it because it's a little different from your traditional Pinot Grigios. St. Pauls Exclusiv Pinot GrigioWhile I think Santa Margherita is a very fine Grigio, I think it is vastly overpriced. Have you tried the Santa De Terossa out of Verona? Great value for a Grigio.

There is a place down the street that just started pouring Mia's Playground for their housewine. It is named after Don Sebastiani's daughter. Anybody ever tried it. Is it worth me having a glass of the Pinot Noir?

 

[Flying V]

You guys are a ####.

Actually, we're a couple of #####. Why so defensive, Ninja? I was just ribbin' you a little.

I don't care if you're a snob.

 

[Boston]

Wines like food.  Everyone has their own taste.  You may like a $5 burger better than a $30 steak even though the steak is a far higher quality of beef.  No two pallates are the same.  While in theory you are definetly correct it would also assume everyone has the exact same likes and dislikes which just isn't the case.

I get that. I really do. The most important thing in wine is what you like. An expensive wine isn't necessarily better than an inexpensive one. However, if you mask the flavor of the wine with an ice cube, you aren't able to taste 90% of what makes two red wines different. And hey - if you like your red wine cold, drink it cold - but you should probably stick to 2 buck chuck, as most reds are going to taste the same with an ice cube in 'em.

The bottomline is there's often a difference between quality and what people actually like. One thing you'll notice is if you're a casual wine drinking who goes with the cheap stuff an expensive wine may not taste well to you. Quite often it's just too advanced for that person. I remember being all excited bringing home a big time bottle of wine for the holidays a few years ago. It was the Sebastiani "Cherry Block" Cabernet. The stuff is topnotch but it just didn't translate to those who were more beginner wine drinkers. It was just too advanced for their pallettes and didn't do anything for them.

The other thing I notice is how more and more people are becoming advanced. As they do they often can't believe the stuff they used to like. Quite often as they climb the ladder of quality they can't go backwards but it doesn't happen overnight.

 

[Jules Winnfield]

Wines like food. Everyone has their own taste. You may like a $5 burger better than a $30 steak even though the steak is a far higher quality of beef. No two pallates are the same. While in theory you are definetly correct it would also assume everyone has the exact same likes and dislikes which just isn't the case.

I get that. I really do. The most important thing in wine is what you like. An expensive wine isn't necessarily better than an inexpensive one. However, if you mask the flavor of the wine with an ice cube, you aren't able to taste 90% of what makes two red wines different. And hey - if you like your red wine cold, drink it cold - but you should probably stick to 2 buck chuck, as most reds are going to taste the same with an ice cube in 'em.

Gotta agree here. I am sitting at a wine bar and the gentleman behind the bar gets off the phone and then goes to get a Paradigm Cabernet to open and then proceeds to put it in an ice bucket. I'm looking there flabbergasted. He then tells me that he has this couple that always calls one hour before they come up and they choose a red wine off the wine list and tell whomever is working to put it on ice. I mean WTF? If you are going to put the red on ice then you have no chance of letting that red wine open up to all it contains. You're just going to taste cold red wine. He tells me that these people have no problem dropping 40-50 on these iced down red wines.

 

[Jules Winnfield]

Wines like food. Everyone has their own taste. You may like a $5 burger better than a $30 steak even though the steak is a far higher quality of beef. No two pallates are the same. While in theory you are definetly correct it would also assume everyone has the exact same likes and dislikes which just isn't the case.

I get that. I really do. The most important thing in wine is what you like. An expensive wine isn't necessarily better than an inexpensive one. However, if you mask the flavor of the wine with an ice cube, you aren't able to taste 90% of what makes two red wines different. And hey - if you like your red wine cold, drink it cold - but you should probably stick to 2 buck chuck, as most reds are going to taste the same with an ice cube in 'em.

The bottomline is there's often a difference between quality and what people actually like. One thing you'll notice is if you're a casual wine drinking who goes with the cheap stuff an expensive wine may not taste well to you. Quite often it's just too advanced for that person. I remember being all excited bringing home a big time bottle of wine for the holidays a few years ago. It was the Sebastiani "Cherry Block" Cabernet. The stuff is topnotch but it just didn't translate to those who were more beginner wine drinkers. It was just too advanced for their pallettes and didn't do anything for them.

The other thing I notice is how more and more people are becoming advanced. As they do they often can't believe the stuff they used to like. Quite often as they climb the ladder of quality they can't go backwards but it doesn't happen overnight.

Cherryblock? I used to have the that and I also had the Dutton Ranch Chardonnay. That was good stuff.

 

[Boston]

Wines like food.  Everyone has their own taste.  You may like a $5 burger better than a $30 steak even though the steak is a far higher quality of beef.  No two pallates are the same.  While in theory you are definetly correct it would also assume everyone has the exact same likes and dislikes which just isn't the case.

I get that. I really do. The most important thing in wine is what you like. An expensive wine isn't necessarily better than an inexpensive one. However, if you mask the flavor of the wine with an ice cube, you aren't able to taste 90% of what makes two red wines different. And hey - if you like your red wine cold, drink it cold - but you should probably stick to 2 buck chuck, as most reds are going to taste the same with an ice cube in 'em.

The bottomline is there's often a difference between quality and what people actually like. One thing you'll notice is if you're a casual wine drinking who goes with the cheap stuff an expensive wine may not taste well to you. Quite often it's just too advanced for that person. I remember being all excited bringing home a big time bottle of wine for the holidays a few years ago. It was the Sebastiani "Cherry Block" Cabernet. The stuff is topnotch but it just didn't translate to those who were more beginner wine drinkers. It was just too advanced for their pallettes and didn't do anything for them.

The other thing I notice is how more and more people are becoming advanced. As they do they often can't believe the stuff they used to like. Quite often as they climb the ladder of quality they can't go backwards but it doesn't happen overnight.

Yes, but that's not my point. With an ice cube, you're not going to be able to taste the differences to tell what you like. You could mix the wines with motor oil if you liked it better, and hey - go for it. I'd recommend buying wine that's not so expensive, however, as once you mix it with motor oil it's all gonna taste the same.

I know quite a few people who simply like the taste better that way. Many older Italians who have drank wine for 50+ years go with the ice cube. They swear by it as well. Doesn't mean you have to like it but that's what tastes well to them. Again, it comes down to different strokes for different folks. Personally, I agree that it waters it down but if you like it that way than that's just how it goes.

 

[Flying V]

Wines like food.  Everyone has their own taste.  You may like a $5 burger better than a $30 steak even though the steak is a far higher quality of beef.  No two pallates are the same.  While in theory you are definetly correct it would also assume everyone has the exact same likes and dislikes which just isn't the case.

I get that. I really do. The most important thing in wine is what you like. An expensive wine isn't necessarily better than an inexpensive one. However, if you mask the flavor of the wine with an ice cube, you aren't able to taste 90% of what makes two red wines different. And hey - if you like your red wine cold, drink it cold - but you should probably stick to 2 buck chuck, as most reds are going to taste the same with an ice cube in 'em.

That makes sense to me. That's why I was a little taken aback when Jules suggested smoking a cigar with a '77 Dows. I only know of one other person in Jules' league, and when I suggested a cigar to go with a fine vintage port, his exact words were "For God's sake man, save that for the Cognac!"

I guess even among the experts, it's all a matter of personal tastes.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Pinot Noir, Frei Brothers (Russian River Valley)-Like Sebastiani all Frei Brothers products are first rate. This is my personal favorite from the line.

I assume you mean the Russian River Valley Reserve? The only reason I ask is because I'm not sure if there is any distinction - the reserve is all I've ever seen on the shelves. This is actually not a bad value wine. Something like $13 at Costco, it may be the only Frei Bros wine I've liked.I saw the Artesa Chard in your recommendations as well. Artesa is a decent winery. If you're in the Valley, it's absolutely beautiful to visit. I've become less and less enthused about their wines over the past several years, but they have several Pinot Noirs that are excellent and an Alexander Valley Cab that I really enjoyed as well. I know the Chards gain most of their acclaim, but I just can't get into whites as much.

 

[Ibis81]

Pinot Noir, Frei Brothers (Russian River Valley)-Like Sebastiani all Frei Brothers products are first rate. This is my personal favorite from the line.

I assume you mean the Russian River Valley Reserve? The only reason I ask is because I'm not sure if there is any distinction - the reserve is all I've ever seen on the shelves. This is actually not a bad value wine. Something like $13 at Costco, it may be the only Frei Bros wine I've liked.I saw the Artesa Chard in your recommendations as well. Artesa is a decent winery. If you're in the Valley, it's absolutely beautiful to visit. I've become less and less enthused about their wines over the past several years, but they have several Pinot Noirs that are excellent and an Alexander Valley Cab that I really enjoyed as well. I know the Chards gain most of their acclaim, but I just can't get into whites as much.

I prefer the Acacia Pinot over the Frei Bros. I believe they are in the same price range.

 

[Jules Winnfield]

Wines like food. Everyone has their own taste. You may like a $5 burger better than a $30 steak even though the steak is a far higher quality of beef. No two pallates are the same. While in theory you are definetly correct it would also assume everyone has the exact same likes and dislikes which just isn't the case.

I get that. I really do. The most important thing in wine is what you like. An expensive wine isn't necessarily better than an inexpensive one. However, if you mask the flavor of the wine with an ice cube, you aren't able to taste 90% of what makes two red wines different. And hey - if you like your red wine cold, drink it cold - but you should probably stick to 2 buck chuck, as most reds are going to taste the same with an ice cube in 'em.

That makes sense to me. That's why I was a little taken aback when Jules suggested smoking a cigar with a '77 Dows. I only know of one other person in Jules' league, and when I suggested a cigar to go with a fine vintage port, his exact words were "For God's sake man, save that for the Cognac!"

I guess even among the experts, it's all a matter of personal tastes.

The old Cognac and Cigar statement huh?Cigars and vintage Ports are a beautiful pairing. Smoothness and smoke always go together.

Single Malt Scotch is another nice pairing. In fact, Dalmore makes a Cigar Malt Scoth to enjoy with a nice cigar.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Question for those of you that are into simply collecting wine for the sake of collecting it, and I don't mean this to be rude, just curious.  What exactly do you get out of having a certian 1989 Shiraz say if you have no intention of drinking it or sharing it with friends ?  Are you buying it as an investment or just to say that you have it ?

I guess we'll I can understand discovering a good wine and wanting to buy it to enjoy I just don't get collecting it for the sake of collecting it.

It's all personal difference or personal philosophy. Scupper and Jules probably differ in the way they buy from proninja and myself, who differ from you or tipsey. Like anything else you own in life, it's nice to be able to say to someone you encounter, "I have a <insert item of prestige here> sitting at home." But mostly people buy with the intention of drinking it down the road when the wine has matured. They want to try the best wines at their peak.Some of it can be sentiment. I've got a bottle of '97 Fife Zinfandel that probably cost $15 when it was released, it's pretty much on it's downward slope now, yet I can't bring myself to open it because it's the last one of a half-case I bought after my wife and I fell in love with it on a trip for our first anniversary.

I enjoy wine, but I'm not willing to put the kind of money into it that Jules and Scupper seem to be. While they're trying wines I would love to try and will have some great ones to drink down the road, I probably have a different personal philosophy on it than they do.

We just started to really apprecaite wine about 6-7 years ago, and it's something we kept up with because it basically became one of the few shared hobbies my wife and I have. On a day-to-day basis, most of the wine I drink is in the $15-$25 range, and I save most my higher-$ purchases for special occasions or trips to wine country.

This is the first year in 5 or 6 that my wife and I have not made a trip to Napa, Sonoma, or the Mendocino area. Often times while there, we would find a wine we liked that was worthy of cellaring, and we'd pick up two bottles - one to drink in the near future and one to put away for 5, 7, 10 years, whatever. I normally just pick up an extra bottle rather than a case/half-case. Some of that is a product of income. I could afford to buy more or to drink better wines on a daily basis, but I'd have to sacrifice other things to do so. And I'm not willing to do that just for wine.

As opposed to Jules 400+, I've got a wine fridge that holds about 60 bottles. It's stocked to the gills right now, and some of the first wines we bought to hold for a while will start coming out after my daughter is born in June/July. Most of those bottles won't be Brunellos or Shafer wines or wineries at the tips of most people's tongues (A number of ours are from places like Peju, Del Dotto, Sullivan, Summers, Hall, Zahtila, Cosentino) - just bottles we encountered during our trips to wine country, really enjoyed, and we'll pull them out and reminisce over this trip or that trip. I think it's all just about personal preference.

You're a beautiful man, Bob, an incredibly beautiful man. Have heard good things about a couple of those wines you listed but haven't tried them. Had someone tell me to visit Del Dotto last time I went through Napa but I ran out of time on the trip and didn't get a chance to locate it.

You didn't look at the pictures that closely, did you?Del Dotto's cave tour/tasting is the best value of any of the wineries I've hit in Napa. It's pricey at upwards of $40, but seeing the caves is cool. And the way they do their tasting is outstanding. It starts as a barrel tasting. While you're touring the cave, they'll stop at one of their wines and thief two samples, one of a wine aged in a Missouri barrel and another of the exact same wine that's been aging in a French barrel. It's intereesting to get an idea of what the different barrels do to the wines. Almost unanimously the women preferred the French barrel aging and the men preferred the Missouri. They don't tell until afterwards which came from which.

At any rate, you taste a LOT of wines in the barrel tasting. And if you wish, you can grab tags detailing which wines you tried and buy futures on them as you leave. After that they take you to their conference room and pull out bottles of their current releases, and you taste them. You will leave there half in the bag. And all their wines are outstanding. Best American Sangiovese I've had.

Sounds like I definitely need to get to there eventually. I've been down through there 2 or 3 times but haven't been able to go to too many places. In Napa I've been to Clos Pegase, Markham, V. Sattui, Folie a Deux, Mondavi, Niebaum-Coppola, and Domaine Chandon and I've been to 3 or 4 over in Sonoma as well but those names aren't coming to me other than St. Francis.

When you decide to go, let me know. I don't pretend to be a wine expert, but I know enough about Napa and Sonoma to be dangerous. I did a write-up for some friends who went out last year, detailing which wineries my wife and I have enjoyed most on our visits - and which ones were for the wines vs. the views vs. the great tasting rooms, etc. I'd be happy to share.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Pinot Noir, Frei Brothers (Russian River Valley)-Like Sebastiani all Frei Brothers products are first rate.  This is my personal favorite from the line.

I assume you mean the Russian River Valley Reserve? The only reason I ask is because I'm not sure if there is any distinction - the reserve is all I've ever seen on the shelves. This is actually not a bad value wine. Something like $13 at Costco, it may be the only Frei Bros wine I've liked.I saw the Artesa Chard in your recommendations as well. Artesa is a decent winery. If you're in the Valley, it's absolutely beautiful to visit. I've become less and less enthused about their wines over the past several years, but they have several Pinot Noirs that are excellent and an Alexander Valley Cab that I really enjoyed as well. I know the Chards gain most of their acclaim, but I just can't get into whites as much.

I prefer the Acacia Pinot over the Frei Bros. I believe they are in the same price range.

The Acacia is a little more - I think closer to $20/bottle. And I prefer it, too.

 

[Jules Winnfield]

Pinot Noir, Frei Brothers (Russian River Valley)-Like Sebastiani all Frei Brothers products are first rate. This is my personal favorite from the line.

I assume you mean the Russian River Valley Reserve? The only reason I ask is because I'm not sure if there is any distinction - the reserve is all I've ever seen on the shelves. This is actually not a bad value wine. Something like $13 at Costco, it may be the only Frei Bros wine I've liked.I saw the Artesa Chard in your recommendations as well. Artesa is a decent winery. If you're in the Valley, it's absolutely beautiful to visit. I've become less and less enthused about their wines over the past several years, but they have several Pinot Noirs that are excellent and an Alexander Valley Cab that I really enjoyed as well. I know the Chards gain most of their acclaim, but I just can't get into whites as much.

Here's a couple Russian River Valley wines I really like. The Zinfandel and Chardonnay are in my collection. From Carneros I have their Pinot Noir.

Inspiration Vineyards

 

[Bob Sacamano]

After my wife has this kid, I'm going to spend a small fortune trying some of the wines recommended by you guys.

The Chariot Sangiovese is first on the list, of course.

 

[Ibis81]

After my wife has this kid, I'm going to spend a small fortune trying some of the wines recommended by you guys.

The Chariot Sangiovese is first on the list, of course.

Another I would recommend:Either

Guigal Chateauneuf Du Pape Rouge 2001 or

Domaine Paul Autard Chateauneuf Du Pape 2003

In fact every Paul Autard wine I have tried is fantastic. The Cote Du Rhone is one of the best I have had. There is also another Chateauneuf that is fantastic but the name escapes me currently. I'll see if I can find it.

 

[Flying V]

The old Cognac and Cigar statement huh?

Cigars and vintage Ports are a beautiful pairing. Smoothness and smoke always go together.

Single Malt Scotch is another nice pairing. In fact, Dalmore makes a Cigar Malt Scoth to enjoy with a nice cigar.

I agree. I think he was afraid the tobacco would contaminate my palate to the point where I could not appreciate the quality of the port.

 

[Genedoc]

Question for those of you that are into simply collecting wine for the sake of collecting it, and I don't mean this to be rude, just curious.  What exactly do you get out of having a certian 1989 Shiraz say if you have no intention of drinking it or sharing it with friends ?  Are you buying it as an investment or just to say that you have it ?

I guess we'll I can understand discovering a good wine and wanting to buy it to enjoy I just don't get collecting it for the sake of collecting it.

It's all personal difference or personal philosophy. Scupper and Jules probably differ in the way they buy from proninja and myself, who differ from you or tipsey. Like anything else you own in life, it's nice to be able to say to someone you encounter, "I have a <insert item of prestige here> sitting at home." But mostly people buy with the intention of drinking it down the road when the wine has matured. They want to try the best wines at their peak.Some of it can be sentiment. I've got a bottle of '97 Fife Zinfandel that probably cost $15 when it was released, it's pretty much on it's downward slope now, yet I can't bring myself to open it because it's the last one of a half-case I bought after my wife and I fell in love with it on a trip for our first anniversary.

I enjoy wine, but I'm not willing to put the kind of money into it that Jules and Scupper seem to be. While they're trying wines I would love to try and will have some great ones to drink down the road, I probably have a different personal philosophy on it than they do.

We just started to really apprecaite wine about 6-7 years ago, and it's something we kept up with because it basically became one of the few shared hobbies my wife and I have. On a day-to-day basis, most of the wine I drink is in the $15-$25 range, and I save most my higher-$ purchases for special occasions or trips to wine country.

This is the first year in 5 or 6 that my wife and I have not made a trip to Napa, Sonoma, or the Mendocino area. Often times while there, we would find a wine we liked that was worthy of cellaring, and we'd pick up two bottles - one to drink in the near future and one to put away for 5, 7, 10 years, whatever. I normally just pick up an extra bottle rather than a case/half-case. Some of that is a product of income. I could afford to buy more or to drink better wines on a daily basis, but I'd have to sacrifice other things to do so. And I'm not willing to do that just for wine.

As opposed to Jules 400+, I've got a wine fridge that holds about 60 bottles. It's stocked to the gills right now, and some of the first wines we bought to hold for a while will start coming out after my daughter is born in June/July. Most of those bottles won't be Brunellos or Shafer wines or wineries at the tips of most people's tongues (A number of ours are from places like Peju, Del Dotto, Sullivan, Summers, Hall, Zahtila, Cosentino) - just bottles we encountered during our trips to wine country, really enjoyed, and we'll pull them out and reminisce over this trip or that trip. I think it's all just about personal preference.

You're a beautiful man, Bob, an incredibly beautiful man. Have heard good things about a couple of those wines you listed but haven't tried them. Had someone tell me to visit Del Dotto last time I went through Napa but I ran out of time on the trip and didn't get a chance to locate it.

You didn't look at the pictures that closely, did you?Del Dotto's cave tour/tasting is the best value of any of the wineries I've hit in Napa. It's pricey at upwards of $40, but seeing the caves is cool. And the way they do their tasting is outstanding. It starts as a barrel tasting. While you're touring the cave, they'll stop at one of their wines and thief two samples, one of a wine aged in a Missouri barrel and another of the exact same wine that's been aging in a French barrel. It's intereesting to get an idea of what the different barrels do to the wines. Almost unanimously the women preferred the French barrel aging and the men preferred the Missouri. They don't tell until afterwards which came from which.

At any rate, you taste a LOT of wines in the barrel tasting. And if you wish, you can grab tags detailing which wines you tried and buy futures on them as you leave. After that they take you to their conference room and pull out bottles of their current releases, and you taste them. You will leave there half in the bag. And all their wines are outstanding. Best American Sangiovese I've had.

Sounds like I definitely need to get to there eventually. I've been down through there 2 or 3 times but haven't been able to go to too many places. In Napa I've been to Clos Pegase, Markham, V. Sattui, Folie a Deux, Mondavi, Niebaum-Coppola, and Domaine Chandon and I've been to 3 or 4 over in Sonoma as well but those names aren't coming to me other than St. Francis.

When you decide to go, let me know. I don't pretend to be a wine expert, but I know enough about Napa and Sonoma to be dangerous. I did a write-up for some friends who went out last year, detailing which wineries my wife and I have enjoyed most on our visits - and which ones were for the wines vs. the views vs. the great tasting rooms, etc. I'd be happy to share.

I'd love to see you itenerary. Ours was put together by a friend, and it was awesome. It was....1) Vine Cliff - Good wine, great view, very pleasent tasting experience.

2) Shafer - Easily the highlight of our trip. Exceptional wine, exceptional tasting experinece, quality people. A top notch experience, and an absolute must if you've never been.

3) Silver Oak - Glad we went, but a little disappointing. Wine was very good, but the tasting experience was very rushed and get in/get out.

4) Plumpjack - Same as Silver Oak - glad we went and the wine was good, but the tasting experience was very...LA hip. Not my thing, but the juice was good.

5) Far Niente - Awesome tasting experience, very cool view and awesome building. And of course the wine is very good. In our top 3-4.

6) Silverado - Go for the view. The wine was very good, but overpirced IMO.

7) Darioush - See #6, verbatim.

8) Chappellet - Awesome experience, and the best valued wine we tasted. It takes some doing to get there, but well worth the experience.

9) Barnett - Were it not for Shafer, this would have been the highlight. Best view in Napa or Sonoma, and the wine is all very, very good. I'll pu ttheir Rattlesnake Hill Cab up against just about anything.

10) Pine Ridge - Good, but nothing spectacular.

11) Sherwin Family - Near Barnett, this is a very small winery that produces very small batches, but good golly is it fabulous. I'll put their Estate Cab (and Barnett's Rattlesnake Hill as well) up against anything Opus or Silver Oak has on the market.

12) Del Dotto - I an going against the grain here, but we didn't like it at all. We'd spent all week tasting wines and having the winemakers talk to us about grapes and barrels, and the guys at Del Dotto were all about quantity and barrel variety. I thought all of their wine was overpriced, and they seemed more interested in getting everyone loaded than they did giving them great wine.

Top 3 - Shafer, Barnett, and Chappellet, with Sherwin coming in a close 4rth.

Best dining experience was a tiny little place called Pilar. Between the 8 of us I think we had literally everything on the menu, and it was all spectacular.

 

[Genedoc]

Wines like food.  Everyone has their own taste.  You may like a $5 burger better than a $30 steak even though the steak is a far higher quality of beef.  No two pallates are the same.  While in theory you are definetly correct it would also assume everyone has the exact same likes and dislikes which just isn't the case.

I get that. I really do. The most important thing in wine is what you like. An expensive wine isn't necessarily better than an inexpensive one. However, if you mask the flavor of the wine with an ice cube, you aren't able to taste 90% of what makes two red wines different. And hey - if you like your red wine cold, drink it cold - but you should probably stick to 2 buck chuck, as most reds are going to taste the same with an ice cube in 'em.

That makes sense to me. That's why I was a little taken aback when Jules suggested smoking a cigar with a '77 Dows. I only know of one other person in Jules' league, and when I suggested a cigar to go with a fine vintage port, his exact words were "For God's sake man, save that for the Cognac!"

I guess even among the experts, it's all a matter of personal tastes.

The old Cognac and Cigar statement huh?Cigars and vintage Ports are a beautiful pairing. Smoothness and smoke always go together.

Single Malt Scotch is another nice pairing. In fact, Dalmore makes a Cigar Malt Scoth to enjoy with a nice cigar.

I know I am going to be accussed of being a Shafer shill, but they make a vintage port that is astounding and that they only sell at the winery. All of us - from the 30 year veteran to the noobs in the crowd - went into the port tasting saying we weren't big port fans. 30 minutes later, every single one of us purchased as many bottles as they'd aloow us to purchase, which was sadly only two bottles each.

 

[Jules Winnfield]

Wines like food. Everyone has their own taste. You may like a $5 burger better than a $30 steak even though the steak is a far higher quality of beef. No two pallates are the same. While in theory you are definetly correct it would also assume everyone has the exact same likes and dislikes which just isn't the case.

I get that. I really do. The most important thing in wine is what you like. An expensive wine isn't necessarily better than an inexpensive one. However, if you mask the flavor of the wine with an ice cube, you aren't able to taste 90% of what makes two red wines different. And hey - if you like your red wine cold, drink it cold - but you should probably stick to 2 buck chuck, as most reds are going to taste the same with an ice cube in 'em.

That makes sense to me. That's why I was a little taken aback when Jules suggested smoking a cigar with a '77 Dows. I only know of one other person in Jules' league, and when I suggested a cigar to go with a fine vintage port, his exact words were "For God's sake man, save that for the Cognac!"

I guess even among the experts, it's all a matter of personal tastes.

The old Cognac and Cigar statement huh?Cigars and vintage Ports are a beautiful pairing. Smoothness and smoke always go together.

Single Malt Scotch is another nice pairing. In fact, Dalmore makes a Cigar Malt Scoth to enjoy with a nice cigar.

I know I am going to be accussed of being a Shafer shill, but they make a vintage port that is astounding and that they only sell at the winery. All of us - from the 30 year veteran to the noobs in the crowd - went into the port tasting saying we weren't big port fans. 30 minutes later, every single one of us purchased as many bottles as they'd aloow us to purchase, which was sadly only two bottles each.

You see that's what wine is about. Trying something new and then realizing that "Hey, this is really good!" Now you can go out and try other ports, experiment with Tawny and Ruby Ports, and when you go to a decent restaurant that has Port, you can order one off the menu. Ordering Port is a classy move at a nice place.

 

[Genedoc]

Wines like food.  Everyone has their own taste.  You may like a $5 burger better than a $30 steak even though the steak is a far higher quality of beef.  No two pallates are the same.  While in theory you are definetly correct it would also assume everyone has the exact same likes and dislikes which just isn't the case.

I get that. I really do. The most important thing in wine is what you like. An expensive wine isn't necessarily better than an inexpensive one. However, if you mask the flavor of the wine with an ice cube, you aren't able to taste 90% of what makes two red wines different. And hey - if you like your red wine cold, drink it cold - but you should probably stick to 2 buck chuck, as most reds are going to taste the same with an ice cube in 'em.

That makes sense to me. That's why I was a little taken aback when Jules suggested smoking a cigar with a '77 Dows. I only know of one other person in Jules' league, and when I suggested a cigar to go with a fine vintage port, his exact words were "For God's sake man, save that for the Cognac!"

I guess even among the experts, it's all a matter of personal tastes.

The old Cognac and Cigar statement huh?Cigars and vintage Ports are a beautiful pairing. Smoothness and smoke always go together.

Single Malt Scotch is another nice pairing. In fact, Dalmore makes a Cigar Malt Scoth to enjoy with a nice cigar.

I know I am going to be accussed of being a Shafer shill, but they make a vintage port that is astounding and that they only sell at the winery. All of us - from the 30 year veteran to the noobs in the crowd - went into the port tasting saying we weren't big port fans. 30 minutes later, every single one of us purchased as many bottles as they'd aloow us to purchase, which was sadly only two bottles each.

You see that's what wine is about. Trying something new and then realizing that "Hey, this is really good!" Now you can go out and try other ports, experiment with Tawny and Ruby Ports, and when you go to a decent restaurant that has Port, you can order one off the menu. Ordering Port is a classy move at a nice place.

I've tried several other vintage ports since then, and generally liked them. I am still a little scared of Tawnys for whatever reason. I am not a smoker, so I don't pair them with cigars. However, a little bit of good chocolate makes the ports really come alive. Much more than what wine we liked and where to buy from, the trip out there was all about learning how to drink wine. I'd been drinking long enough to know a little, but I'd never had exceptionally good wine along with tasting notes and people around me who knew what they were talking about. A couple of my buddies thought I was FOS when I returned, so after we cracked open a bottle they'd brought, they asked me to pick out some of the flavors while they were reading the description they'd pick up at the wine store. I was 3 for 3.

 

[Jules Winnfield]

Wines like food. Everyone has their own taste. You may like a $5 burger better than a $30 steak even though the steak is a far higher quality of beef. No two pallates are the same. While in theory you are definetly correct it would also assume everyone has the exact same likes and dislikes which just isn't the case.

I get that. I really do. The most important thing in wine is what you like. An expensive wine isn't necessarily better than an inexpensive one. However, if you mask the flavor of the wine with an ice cube, you aren't able to taste 90% of what makes two red wines different. And hey - if you like your red wine cold, drink it cold - but you should probably stick to 2 buck chuck, as most reds are going to taste the same with an ice cube in 'em.

That makes sense to me. That's why I was a little taken aback when Jules suggested smoking a cigar with a '77 Dows. I only know of one other person in Jules' league, and when I suggested a cigar to go with a fine vintage port, his exact words were "For God's sake man, save that for the Cognac!"

I guess even among the experts, it's all a matter of personal tastes.

The old Cognac and Cigar statement huh?Cigars and vintage Ports are a beautiful pairing. Smoothness and smoke always go together.

Single Malt Scotch is another nice pairing. In fact, Dalmore makes a Cigar Malt Scoth to enjoy with a nice cigar.

I know I am going to be accussed of being a Shafer shill, but they make a vintage port that is astounding and that they only sell at the winery. All of us - from the 30 year veteran to the noobs in the crowd - went into the port tasting saying we weren't big port fans. 30 minutes later, every single one of us purchased as many bottles as they'd aloow us to purchase, which was sadly only two bottles each.

You see that's what wine is about. Trying something new and then realizing that "Hey, this is really good!" Now you can go out and try other ports, experiment with Tawny and Ruby Ports, and when you go to a decent restaurant that has Port, you can order one off the menu. Ordering Port is a classy move at a nice place.

I've tried several other vintage ports since then, and generally liked them. I am still a little scared of Tawnys for whatever reason. I am not a smoker, so I don't pair them with cigars. However, a little bit of good chocolate makes the ports really come alive. Much more than what wine we liked and where to buy from, the trip out there was all about learning how to drink wine. I'd been drinking long enough to know a little, but I'd never had exceptionally good wine along with tasting notes and people around me who knew what they were talking about. A couple of my buddies thought I was FOS when I returned, so after we cracked open a bottle they'd brought, they asked me to pick out some of the flavors while they were reading the description they'd pick up at the wine store. I was 3 for 3.

There are Wine Training kits that people use that has all these vials that contain the aromas found in wine. The one I saw that people were buying like crazy in Verona had 48 different vials with 48 different scents in it and it came with a book telling you what aroma was in each numbered vial. People were buying these things like crazy. Some to train themselves and mostly restaurant and cafe owners were buying them to train the staff.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

[12) Del Dotto - I an going against the grain here, but we didn't like it at all. We'd spent all week tasting wines and having the winemakers talk to us about grapes and barrels, and the guys at Del Dotto were all about quantity and barrel variety. I thought all of their wine was overpriced, and they seemed more interested in getting everyone loaded than they did giving them great wine.

I can see that. We've been twice. The first time our tour was lead by one of the co-owners, and it was outstanding. Yes, they pump a lot of wine into you and yes their wines are expensive. But we loved tham all. He spent a ton of time talking to us about grapes, barrels, process, Valley history, etc. It was great from beginning to end. The second time we went, the tour was lead by a younger guy, and it was much less informational. In retrospect, we probably didn't mind as much because we'd been through it before and were less interested in the detail that was offered to us on the last trip.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

I'd love to see your itenerary.

This is the e-mail I sent my friend. It's tailored because I know her tastes (Cabs and Zins). It's less an itinerary than our notes on different places we've hit over the years. Interesting to see a few of my notes in light of your review. And I agree with your assessment of Darioush, too. Yes, this is very long..."I know you want to stop at places like Shaffer, Far Niente, Swanson, Phelps, etc. I'm not going to touch on those, as I think you already know you're going to get quality there. Most of these are the smaller, lesser-known places we've liked or notes on places I think you might be inclined to hit.

Artesa - They have some pretty good wines (Be sure to try their Alexander Valley Cab), but for the most part this is a place to go for the view and b/c it's a pretty cool building.

Luna - I think they advertise by-appointment tastings, but you're OK to just walk in. One of many wineries on the lesser-traveled Silverado Trail that are worth hitting. Do the reserve tasting and see if they'll just let you add the regular Sangiovese to it (That's the best wine from their regular tasting). Good wines, very friendly tasting room.

Peju - Usually VERY friendly people in the tasting room and good wines. A better place to go in non-peak hours (During the week if possible), as it can get packed and you might get them to let you try a few wines not on the tasting agenda. It can never hurt to ask here, as they're pretty free with the stuff they have open/in stock. The Cab and Zin are both good, but the Reserve Cab is incredible.

Sterling - Wines are worth tasting, but the view is probably better than any in the valley.

Summers - These people are fantastic and make some of the best unknown wines. Excellent Charbono and Cab and one of the few Chards I like. Used to make a Chevalier Noir that was great with chocolate, but I think they quit making it. Small-production family winery and a must-hit if you make it to Calistoga.

Zahtila - Also in Calistoga and along the Silverado Trail. We love their zins. They have a good Cab (Beckstoeffer), too. If you are looking for whites, don't bother. They just released their first one this year.

Niebaum-Coppola - Don't go there so much for the wines as for the Francis Ford Coppola memorabilia (The Godfather's desk, etc). If you're a fan, it's cool to see. Otherwise, you can skip it and not feel like you're missing much.

Cosentino - One of the few wine club discounts worth consideration (30% the day you join, 25% thereafter - as good as you'll find anywhere). You absolutely have to do the tasting that includes the Cab and "The Poet" - just outstanding wines. Wife loved the Cab Franc, which would be great with some kabobs. Also be sure to try any of their zins available (Ask and they'll pretty much let you try anything that is open). "TheZin" and "Cigarzin" are two of my favorites. I picked up 2 bottles of TheZin Reserve, but have yet to actually taste it, as they weren't pouring it.

Dutch Henry - They have some great whites and reds. I love their Meritage. Not much of a tasting room, but very cool and friendly people. Another one along the Silverado Trail.

Del Dotto deleted, as I think we've covered that.

Arger-Martucci - they're pretty new and have some good wines, along with a real family feel. They had a wine and cheese pairing when we went in. We were pleasantly surprised. Excellent Syrah (Or Petit, I can't recall which at present).

Hall - Arger-Martucci supplied us with a "Hall Pass" which provided a free tasting at Hall wineries across the street. They have a $38 Cabernet whose flavor FAR exceeds that price for a California Cab. '01 T Bar T Cab. Should be a 90 point wine.

Sullivan - One of the smallest production wineries in the valley, they have some great art by Katherine Sullivan (a daughter of the owners) and some excellent wines to boot. Plan on talking a lot, as family members wander in and out. By appointment only.

Dean and Delucca - A place we like to stop for lunch occasionally. We go to their deli, grab a sandwich, and sit there and eat. Good lunch on the go.

Some other wineries worth visiting: (Vincent) Arroyo, Rombauer, Silverado (More view than wine, but a good Sangio), Whitehall Lane (Do the vertical Cab tasting and ask to try the Reserve Cab), and the ones on our list to hit next time are Quintessa and Chappellett.

Sonoma (We've spent a LOT less time there, and don't have many notes from our first trip):

Loxton - Run by an Australian guy who was actually helping the workers during Crush when we were there last year. He climbed down off the machinery they were operating to offer us a taste of some of the Cab grapes they were crushing. He took the time to talk with us for half an hour or so during his busiest time of year and then proceeded to comp our tasting. Great guy and a friendly tasting room. We were a little disappointed in our trip there in July, though. They just sold out of their best zin, which was also their best wine by far.

Seghesio - We love their zins and we were even more impressed with them after visiting the winery. The tasting room itself is nothing overly impressive, but the 2 guys working behind the bar were great. We had a blast chatting with them, tried some really nice wines, and loved all of their zins (But don't buy the Sonoma zin on site, as you can get it cheaper in stores).

Ravenswood - Worth hitting just b/c I know you love zin. These guys make like 50 different ones, most of which have their merits.

J - We thought this place was the best winery we've visited in Sonoma, hands down. As I understand it, it's owned and operated entirely by women. They pair food with their wines for the tastings, and all of their wines were tremendous, including a Chardonnay that I actually loved. Not too oaky, which you find a lot in CA."

 

[Loomba]

[

J - We thought this place was the best winery we've visited in Sonoma, hands down. As I understand it, it's owned and operated entirely by women. They pair food with their wines for the tastings, and all of their wines were tremendous, including a Chardonnay that I actually loved. Not too oaky, which you find a lot in CA."

Loved this winery too when we visited Sonoma last September. Awesome Pinot and I really like their Zin -- elegant.

Other Sonoma fav's were Ferrari Carano, Imagery and Seghesio.

Wanted to visit La Crema for their excellent Pinot but couldn't find their shop in town.

sigh...

 

[Bob Sacamano]

J - We thought this place was the best winery we've visited in Sonoma, hands down. As I understand it, it's owned and operated entirely by women. They pair food with their wines for the tastings, and all of their wines were tremendous, including a Chardonnay that I actually loved. Not too oaky, which you find a lot in CA."

Awesome Pinot

 

[Genedoc]

J - We thought this place was the best winery we've visited in Sonoma, hands down.  As I understand it, it's owned and operated entirely by women.  They pair food with their wines for the tastings, and all of their wines were tremendous, including a Chardonnay that I actually loved.  Not too oaky, which you find a lot in CA."

Awesome Pinot

When you go to Barnett next time, make a point of getting their Pinot. We didn't have time for Sonoma, but it was the best Pinot we tasted in Napa. Shared it with some friends a few weekends ago who are big Pinot fans, and they were all...

 

[Bob Sacamano]

J - We thought this place was the best winery we've visited in Sonoma, hands down.  As I understand it, it's owned and operated entirely by women.  They pair food with their wines for the tastings, and all of their wines were tremendous, including a Chardonnay that I actually loved.  Not too oaky, which you find a lot in CA."

Awesome Pinot

When you go to Barnett next time, make a point of getting their Pinot.

Never been. We'll add it to our list of those we still need to go to, though.

 

[matuski]

You guys are a ####.

Actually, we're a couple of #####. Why so defensive, Ninja? I was just ribbin' you a little.

I don't care if you're a snob.

Your post didn't bug me near as much as Matsuki's. Apparently since he waits tables at the local pizza joint he's an expert That phrase came from yesterday.

You were down talking people over the way they enjoy wine, but I'm the ####.Fair enough.

And I will never (have never) claimed to be an expert. I am a Somelier - not by choice but by requirement, but will never in my lifetime tell another person what their tastes are... (I will call a person out for pushing their own wines in a veiled thread - see above).

I just am not able to take wine that seriously, it is grape juice and meant to be enjoyed by everyone - so let everyone enjoy it, even if it isn't the way you like it.

I enjoy your posts ninja.. but lighten up on the judging people on whether they put ice in their wine or not.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Do we need to lock you two in a room with a bottle box of white zin?

 

[matuski]

My bad for jumpin on you.. pet peeve.

 

[Jules Winnfield]

You guys are a ####.

Actually, we're a couple of #####. Why so defensive, Ninja? I was just ribbin' you a little.

I don't care if you're a snob.

Your post didn't bug me near as much as Matsuki's. Apparently since he waits tables at the local pizza joint he's an expert That phrase came from yesterday.

You were down talking people over the way they enjoy wine, but I'm the ####.Fair enough.

And I will never (have never) claimed to be an expert. I am a Somelier - not by choice but by requirement, but will never in my lifetime tell another person what their tastes are... (I will call a person out for pushing their own wines in a veiled thread - see above).

I just am not able to take wine that seriously, it is grape juice and meant to be enjoyed by everyone - so let everyone enjoy it, even if it isn't the way you like it.

I enjoy your posts ninja.. but lighten up on the judging people on whether they put ice in their wine or not.

You're a Sommelier? Good for you!Why not go for the master course then?

 

[matuski]

Do we need to lock you two in a room with a bottle box of white zin?

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Do we need to lock you two in a room with a bottle box of white zin?

I dunno. I thought ice in a decent glass of cab was funny, and figured folks in here might think so as well. Apparently I'm not holy enough.

I do. But I agree with him on not knocking people for personal preferences. Now, if somebody dropped an ice cube in my glass of Cab,

 

[Jules Winnfield]

If anybody on here really wants to learn a little more about wine there are books that will help you.

I always give my copy of Great Wine Made Simple by Andrea Immer

This book will describe wine in easy to understand terms and she will show you how to choose a wine that you will love no matter what the cost.

 

[Ibis81]

If anybody on here really wants to learn a little more about wine there are books that will help you.

I always give my copy of Great Wine Made Simple by Andrea Immer

This book will describe wine in easy to understand terms and she will show you how to choose a wine that you will love no matter what the cost.

I really like the book but I cannot stand to watch her on TV. I don't know exactly what its about her that bugs me so much.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

just stashed 3 bottles of 03 icoseles.  got them tonight for 36 bones

Each? That's a hell of a great price on those.

restaurant cost. snuck a case through on the invoice for $$, can't do it all the time but it's fun when we do. hopefully, i'll be getting a 3 pack of 01 halo next month at $106/each.i'm also negotiating with a rep to buy some 05 bordeaux futures, first growths, as an investment. they're all sceaming from the hilltops about how freaking great 05 is going to be. i've never bought futures before & don't know the best way to go about it. if i get a break through the rep similar to what i get now it seems like a no brainer.

what do you think of this idea jules?

jules,this got lost in the pro ninja-matsuki squabble.