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What makes up a team? (1 Viewer)

BigTex

Don't mess with Texas
Yesterday,I was listening to three friends agrue the dynamics of a team. One said it's the "System" one said yes but the players make the "System", and if a coach has a system he has to bring in players to make that "System" work.One of them said that Vince Young could not be successful in a Texas Tech sytle of offense and of course the other (being a Texas homer) said he was insane and that no QB at Tech could even make the team at Texas.So my question to the great sharks of the pool, which is it the "System" or the players that make the "System".Tex

 
I agree, I didn't get involved in the discussion because the "it's the System" guys was getting angry. Giving me the impression that he wasn't listening to the arguement to make his point.

 
Entire organization from the top management down to the players. It takes an entire organization to build a consistent winner.1. Ownership that is committed to winning and showing some patience.2. Management that acquires players to fit a system.3. Coaching that leads.4. Players that put the team before themselves.Pittsburgh? Arizona?

 
Players make the system.
Stuart,have done any studies on this or written any articles on such a topic?
Nope. But great players are what win. Great systems can make players great, but generally you design your system around the players you have (or the players you want to get).
 
Players make the system.
I think successful teams draft the correct players to fit their systems. However, I'll gladly concede that some teams try to mold their system to fit some specific players talents. That said, I think the more successful teams do the former.Anecdotal point: LB DeMarcus Ware being drafted by Parcels. Why? Because that specific player fits his system.

 
Players make the system.
I think successful teams draft the correct players to fit their systems. However, I'll gladly concede that some teams try to mold their system to fit some specific players talents. That said, I think the more successful teams do the former.Anecdotal point: LB DeMarcus Ware being drafted by Parcels. Why? Because that specific player fits his system.
Agreed. A guy like Pennington was perfect for the WCO, while Pennington was terrible. Smart coaches adjust their system to fit their talent.
 
Any given system needs the right players to make it work.But in the NFL, the system/coaching is more important than the players, imho. Football is chess on grass. Its about putting your players in a position to utilize their talents to their fullest and thus being successful. The "general" in charge of troop movements is the key. That general is the head coach. As hard as it is to find great players, it is even harder to find a great coach. There aren't many of them.

 
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I think the best "Players vs. System" arguement in the NFL is the Denver Broncos rushing attack. Ask the "System" guy if Denver is a good example of the system making the runningbacks successful. Odds are, he'll say yes.

Then casually point out that Denver has devoted a higher percentage of its salary cap to offensive linemen than any other team in the entire NFL. Then link him to this article where Dr. Z picks his all-pros. Point out that Dr. Z charted every single play the entire season and graded the offensive linemen. Point out that Denver's LT, Matt Lepsis, and Denvers Center, Tom Nalen, both graded out the highest at their position in the entire NFL (even above Walter Jones, Orlando Pace, Olin Kreutz, etc). Point out that Denver's guard, Ben Hamilton, graded out the fourth highest at his position of any player in the NFL. Ask him if he's still convinced that it's the system that makes Denver's RBs look so studly, and not the All-Pro caliber players across the entire line.

Game. Set. Match.

 
I think the best "Players vs. System" arguement in the NFL is the Denver Broncos rushing attack. Ask the "System" guy if Denver is a good example of the system making the runningbacks successful. Odds are, he'll say yes.

Then casually point out that Denver has devoted a higher percentage of its salary cap to offensive linemen than any other team in the entire NFL. Then link him to this article where Dr. Z picks his all-pros. Point out that Dr. Z charted every single play the entire season and graded the offensive linemen. Point out that Denver's LT, Matt Lepsis, and Denvers Center, Tom Nalen, both graded out the highest at their position in the entire NFL (even above Walter Jones, Orlando Pace, Olin Kreutz, etc). Point out that Denver's guard, Ben Hamilton, graded out the fourth highest at his position of any player in the NFL. Ask him if he's still convinced that it's the system that makes Denver's RBs look so studly, and not the All-Pro caliber players across the entire line.

Game. Set. Match.
:goodposting: "System" is a clever little shortcut for people who only want to look at the offensive skill positions.

 
I think the best "Players vs. System" arguement in the NFL is the Denver Broncos rushing attack. Ask the "System" guy if Denver is a good example of the system making the runningbacks successful. Odds are, he'll say yes.

Then casually point out that Denver has devoted a higher percentage of its salary cap to offensive linemen than any other team in the entire NFL. Then link him to this article where Dr. Z picks his all-pros. Point out that Dr. Z charted every single play the entire season and graded the offensive linemen. Point out that Denver's LT, Matt Lepsis, and Denvers Center, Tom Nalen, both graded out the highest at their position in the entire NFL (even above Walter Jones, Orlando Pace, Olin Kreutz, etc). Point out that Denver's guard, Ben Hamilton, graded out the fourth highest at his position of any player in the NFL. Ask him if he's still convinced that it's the system that makes Denver's RBs look so studly, and not the All-Pro caliber players across the entire line.

Game. Set. Match.
However, is it the system of good coaching that gets the most of those players? That's the question left unanswered in that study.If, for example, Belichick goes to the Colts in 2000, does he get more out of their talent than what has actually happened? I think yes.

 
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I think the best "Players vs. System" arguement in the NFL is the Denver Broncos rushing attack. Ask the "System" guy if Denver is a good example of the system making the runningbacks successful. Odds are, he'll say yes.

Then casually point out that Denver has devoted a higher percentage of its salary cap to offensive linemen than any other team in the entire NFL. Then link him to this article where Dr. Z picks his all-pros. Point out that Dr. Z charted every single play the entire season and graded the offensive linemen. Point out that Denver's LT, Matt Lepsis, and Denvers Center, Tom Nalen, both graded out the highest at their position in the entire NFL (even above Walter Jones, Orlando Pace, Olin Kreutz, etc). Point out that Denver's guard, Ben Hamilton, graded out the fourth highest at his position of any player in the NFL. Ask him if he's still convinced that it's the system that makes Denver's RBs look so studly, and not the All-Pro caliber players across the entire line.

Game. Set. Match.
However, is it the system of good coaching that gets the most of those players? That's the question left unanswered in that study.If, for example, Belichick goes to the Colts in 2000, does he get more out of their talent than what has actually happened? I think yes.
Again, if this is a matter of good coaching making average players look studly, then why did Denver devote a higher percentage of its salary cap to the offensive line than any other team in the NFL? Why are they spending more than any other team on a collection of average players? Why not just let the expensive guys go and replace them with cheaper guys off the street (guys like... oh, I don't know, Ephraim Salaam)?If a team leads the league in spending on offense... like, I don't know, the Indianapolis Colts... I think it's fair to say they have a heck of a collection of players on offense.

 
I think the best "Players vs. System" arguement in the NFL is the Denver Broncos rushing attack. Ask the "System" guy if Denver is a good example of the system making the runningbacks successful. Odds are, he'll say yes.

Then casually point out that Denver has devoted a higher percentage of its salary cap to offensive linemen than any other team in the entire NFL. Then link him to this article where Dr. Z picks his all-pros. Point out that Dr. Z charted every single play the entire season and graded the offensive linemen. Point out that Denver's LT, Matt Lepsis, and Denvers Center, Tom Nalen, both graded out the highest at their position in the entire NFL (even above Walter Jones, Orlando Pace, Olin Kreutz, etc). Point out that Denver's guard, Ben Hamilton, graded out the fourth highest at his position of any player in the NFL. Ask him if he's still convinced that it's the system that makes Denver's RBs look so studly, and not the All-Pro caliber players across the entire line.

Game. Set. Match.
Thank you SSOG, this great :thumbup:
 

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