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What should we do if Russia invades The Ukraine? (1 Viewer)

What should we do if Russia invades The Ukraine?

  • Nothing

    Votes: 7 16.7%

  • Condemn, more sanctions, send weapons to Ukraine

    Votes: 24 57.1%

  • Mobilize our allies and send troops to defend Ukraine

    Votes: 9 21.4%

  • Other (please specify)

    Votes: 2 4.8%
  • Total voters
    42
timschochet

timschochet

Footballguy
Keep in mind The Ukraine is not a member of NATO and we are not formerly pledged to its sovereignty (though past Presidents, and Trump,  have stated publicly that we would never allow Russia to invade.) The news this morning is that Russia is threatening Ukrainian ports, and that the Ukraine has declared martial law and may be mobilizing its armed forces in expectation of an invasion. What should we do? 

Also keep in mind that, unless we’re talking about a token force, we might have to reinstate the draft in order to have the number of troops necessary to properly defend the Ukraine. 

 
Forget it, we’re neutralized, we’re leaderless.

I think the scary thing people should be discussing is how this precise crisis arising under Trump - in 🇺🇦  - was discussed in 2015-16.

 
Voted Other. Since you asked to specify. Let's look at your second option:

Condemn- Yes

Sanctions- Yes

Send Weapons- No

 
Trump will say he's looking into it. Republican senators will be 'very concerned'. And Trump will tweet something racist so we move past the fact that he's the weakest leader the country's ever had.

 
We should follow the lead of our European allies.  We do not always have to be out front with men and materials and then for the inevitable recriminations.  This is in their backyard let them figure it out while offering a helping hand but not be were the buck stops.

 
Ditkaless Wonders said:
We should follow the lead of our European allies.  We do not always have to be out front with men and materials and then for the inevitable recriminations.  This is in their backyard let them figure it out while offering a helping hand but not be were the buck stops.
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We used to be the leader of the free world, and the leader of NATO. Shall we give that role up to Germany or France? 

 
timschochet said:
We used to be the leader of the free world, and the leader of NATO. Shall we give that role up to Germany or France? 
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Give up, no.  Share, absolutely.

I would not advocate isolationism.  I do advocate not rising to every provocation around the world as if it effects us to a greater extent than any other country or people.  We should support our allies, but we do not always have to lead them.  We should reserve that role for when our interests are truly front and center.

Now if you want to convince me that our interests are paramount here I will listen.  I am certainly not as aware as I might be about the dangers here.  I know a bit about ports and pipelines and resources, but perhaps not all that I should.

 
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I'm good with us being the arsenal of democracy and one of the leaders, even the primary leader of democracy, but not the only one, and I tire of us always being the bank of democracy, the massively disproportionate funder of democracy. 

 
Very curious how the Germans, the Finns and even the Turks feel about this. Less concerned about how the French and the Spanish feel.  curious if G.b. is in any position to address anything other than Brexit right now.

 
Ditkaless Wonders said:
Very curious how the Germans, the Finns and even the Turks feel about this. Less concerned about how the French and the Spanish feel.  curious if G.b. is in any position to address anything other than Brexit right now.
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I think its disappointing that we are not in a position to lead.

Europe is still in a bit of flux over how to organize themselves - with competing national interests.  It was easy to line everyone up behind the US - but without that central force, I think they will struggle to find a common direction.

Which, of course, is what Putin wanted, and what Trump delivered.

 
Sinn Fein said:
I think its disappointing that we are not in a position to lead.

Europe is still in a bit of flux over how to organize themselves - with competing national interests.  It was easy to line everyone up behind the US - but without that central force, I think they will struggle to find a common direction.

Which, of course, is what Putin wanted, and what Trump delivered.
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I too am disappointed that we are not in a position to lead.  I would prefer that we were in such a position, though I would still advocate allowing, even encouraging others to lead in this matter.  The
Germans and the Finns have historically spent a great deal of time contemplating the threat from the former U.S.S.R.  I would want that expertise and investment of thought to take the lead here, if even remotely possible.

 
Ditkaless Wonders said:
I too am disappointed that we are not in a position to lead.  I would prefer that we were in such a position, though I would still advocate allowing, even encouraging others to lead in this matter.  The
Germans and the Finns have historically spent a great deal of time contemplating the threat from the former U.S.S.R.  I would want that expertise and investment of thought to take the lead here, if even remotely possible.
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Thats what a good leader does - organizes and brings in the the smart people, and then leads. rather than dictates.

We are temporarily out of the leadership business.

 
“Ukraine is a country,” says William Taylor, who served as the U.S. ambassador to Ukraine from 2006 to 2009. “The Ukraine is the way the Russians referred to that part of the country during Soviet times … Now that it is a country, a nation, and a recognized state, it is just Ukraine. And it is incorrect to refer to the Ukraine, even though a lot of people do it.”

 
With Trump in charge I don't think we should do anything.  The fact is he is in no position to make these types of calls and we should let the grownup countries in the world take the lead.  We are at the kids table and shouldn't pretend we have the leadership to do things right.

 
Sinn Fein said:
Thats what a good leader does - organizes and brings in the the smart people, and then leads. rather than dictates.

We are temporarily out of the leadership business.
Click to expand...
The only thing worse than being out of that business would be being in that business with a petulant child with no talent for forethought imagining that he could lead when in reality all he does is react, and foolishly.

 
toshiba said:
With Trump in charge I don't think we should do anything.  The fact is he is in no position to make these types of calls and we should let the grownup countries in the world take the lead.  We are at the kids table and shouldn't pretend we have the leadership to do things right.
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The problem is we can’t afford the long term consequences of that. If McConnell and Pelosi are forced to take over the reins of leadership here, then so be it. 

 
There is no way we should lead a ground battle against the Russian military in Ukraine.  That’s absurd.  The death toll would be astronomical.

 
First, we should slap across the face anyone who uses the article "The" in referring to "Ukraine."

Then we'll figure out the next step.

 
What we should do - Lean on NATO and our allies.  Isn't this exactly why NATO exists, and shouldn't we "handle" this aggression as part of a cohesive strategy?  

What we will do -  Say some stupid stuff about being concerned but do nothing because we are in bed with Putin.  Trump does not support NATO, or our historical allies in Europe, and has even gone so far as to suggest that Russia should be made part of NATO.  That is all mindnumbingly stupid and dangerous IMO.

 
Henry Ford said:
First, we should slap across the face anyone who uses the article "The" in referring to "Ukraine."

Then we'll figure out the next step.
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I don’t care. Too bad. I’m going to use “The” just to spite them. I still haven’t forgiven them for the Chmnelnitsky Massacre of 1656. 

 
I’m kind of torn about Trump’s decision. On the one hand, I think it’s a good thing that Donald Trump doesn’t meet with Vladimir Putin at this time. 

On the other hand, if Russia is truly threatening the Ukraine, it might be a good idea for the President of the United States to meet with the leader of Russia and attempt to dissuade him. Something along the lines of “If you choose to go through with this, we can’t guarantee that we won’t become directly involved.” 

 
jonessed said:
There is no way we should lead a ground battle against the Russian military in Ukraine.  That’s absurd.  The death toll would be astronomical.
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But it would never come to that. I think that Putin is testing us. and that if we warn him that we would consider a military response, he’ll immediately back off. 

 
timschochet said:
I’m kind of torn about Trump’s decision. On the one hand, I think it’s a good thing that Donald Trump doesn’t meet with Vladimir Putin at this time. 

On the other hand, if Russia is truly threatening the Ukraine, it might be a good idea for the President of the United States to meet with the leader of Russia and attempt to dissuade him. Something along the lines of “If you choose to go through with this, we can’t guarantee that we won’t become directly involved.” 
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I'm sure he knows that is what 70% of the country would expect him to say. Which is exactly why he doesn't want to go. There is no way in hell he'd ever say that to his partner in crime.

 
timschochet said:
But it would never come to that. I think that Putin is testing us. and that if we warn him that we would consider a military response, he’ll immediately back off. 
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Tim, with all due respect, don't you think all of this was taken care of in 2016?  Putin got Trump elected. In return, Trump let's Putin do anything he wants in the area. There's always give and take. Why do you think Russia wanted Trump in office so badly?

 
I thought global warming would ease the need for Russian expansion by giving them the ports the have always coveted.  No need to seek warm water ports if they have year round ports of their own.  Still, until that happens they will always covet more access to the Black Sea and more proximity to the oil rich fields of the middle east.

If Ukraine goes how fast does he gobble up the rest of the former breakaway republics?

 
JuniorNB said:
Tim, with all due respect, don't you think all of this was taken care of in 2016?  Putin got Trump elected. In return, Trump let's Putin do anything he wants in the area. There's always give and take. Why do you think Russia wanted Trump in office so badly?
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Honestly? I think Putin wanted Trump to kill the Magnitsky Act. But he (Putin) didn’t anticipate the blowback and the limits on Trump’s power. That’s my guess. 

With regard to the Ukraine, I think what we have is a Russian pride issue, somewhat analogous to China and Taiwan. They don’t really see the Ukraine as a separate country- it’s always been a Russian province. We have to be careful because the Russians might just succumb to emotions here. 

Try to imagine how we would react if Texas seceded with the approval of the world, who then attempted to guarantee the new country with military alliances. 

 
Ditkaless Wonders said:
I thought global warming would ease the need for Russian expansion by giving them the ports the have always coveted.  No need to seek warm water ports if they have year round ports of their own.  Still, until that happens they will always covet more access to the Black Sea and more proximity to the oil rich fields of the middle east.

If Ukraine goes how fast does he gobble up the rest of the former breakaway republics?
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Again I don’t think it’s so much an economic issue as it is one of nationalistic pride. 

 
timschochet said:
Again I don’t think it’s so much an economic issue as it is one of nationalistic pride. 
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If you are correct that is trouble.  Economics is subject to cost benefit analysis, pride answers to no rationality and increasing costs only challenges pride to retrench and redouble its efforts.  

 
timschochet said:
I don’t care. 

I only support the Ukraine’s independence because a more powerful Russia is bad for us. But they’re not exactly good guys. 
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I don't need you to care, I'm just suggesting that the first rule of attempting to get Russia to stop invading Ukraine is to stop referring to Ukraine as part of Russia in general parlance.

 
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